Watch these 57 minutes if you want to 10x your business in 2022..

What is up? Welcome to my channel. My name is Layla Hormozi, and if you don't know me, I am co-founder and co-CEO of Acquisition.com, which is a portfolio of businesses that does about $85 million per year in revenue. I don't have anything to sell, no courses, no coaching, nothing to that sort. Uh, our goal really as a company is actually just to document and share all of our best practices as a company and put them out there for free to the entrepreneurial community. And so this is part of that. And so I actually wanna share with you today a video, or the video, a talk I did for Dan Martell, his company. And Dan Martell is, uh, a friend of mine and also somebody who I've learned so much from. Dan is actually, you should really need to go follow him on YouTube. He puts out so much insane knowledge and he is one of the best in class at scaling SaaS businesses. And I was absolutely honored to talk to his company because honestly he runs insanely tight ship. He is a great culture and just like absolutely hungry, driven teammates. And so if you want to figure out how to build business like Dan's, just go follow his stuff on YouTube. But that being said, I talked to them really about 10x leadership growth. The theme for them this year was really how do you 10x and, you know, looking at our companies and how fast they've grown. He said, I want you to come and talk about the experience. Like, how do employees and leaders and owners get to the next level? And so that's really what I break down is like, what are the levels in the business for leaders, for owners, et cetera? And then why do so many people stay stuck at certain levels? And then how do you get past that? And that's really what I break down. And so I like to approach it from a how and why are most people stuck? And let's go do the opposite of that rather than like, how do you grow? I think everyone knows how you grow. It's like, be ambitious and hungry and all this. It's like, okay, that's bullshit though. Let's talk about why you actually stay stuck and let's not do those behaviors. And so I hope you find this valuable and I will see you on the next video.

I'm going to kick this off by letting everybody know who Leila is to me and why I appreciate her so much. But Leila, we probably met a couple of years ago. Like, I don't even know. It was through Taki. Yes.

Yeah.

That was the first time we met. Taki brought you and Alex in to speak to his high-end mastermind. Taki is my coach., and you stuck around, uh, for a bit, and we had like dinner together. And that was the first time I'd heard of Gym Launch. Uh, well, not heard of it— I heard of it prior just because you guys came out of the world and just did this. Um, and what I loved about listening to you and Alex share your, your journey, uh, Alex being your, uh, other half, um, was that you guys brought a real operational mind to things. And we've talked about this hundreds of times, Leila, is in the world of coaching, there's very few operational people. Many of them are just trying to sell you the next kind of hot, you know, Amazon, you know, crypto. Like they're just, they're jumping on the next thing, but they actually don't want to scale and grow and run businesses. And, you know, you guys were building Gym Launch and then you had Allen, the software company. I had the opportunity to work with you and Alex directly on the software side, uh, for a year and just see you guys grow and continue to push things is super inspirational. And, um, when Kelsey and I were talking about who would we like to come in and breathe some thoughts into, uh, the team, uh, obviously I thought of you. So Layla, could you give the, the quick short story on the Gym Launch journey, uh, where you guys started, where you're at today?

Yeah, yeah. Um, You know, we started Gym Launch, Alex and I actually started it from the ground. So we went out to gyms and we would do marketing for them and we would go into these gyms and we would sell. So I'd fly to Hawaii, he'd fly to Virginia, whatever. That was how it started. Turned into deploying a sales team to do that model, not very scalable. And so reluctantly we ended up out of desperation, almost going bankrupt saying, I guess we should do this whole coaching thing we see everyone talking about, which we were super reluctant to do because it looked scammy, right? And so we turned it into a coaching business, which we call a licensing business. And that is when the business took off. And so I think the first year, which we switched the model in the beginning, we ended up doing like $7 million that year. And it was only for really a half year with the new model. The second year we did, I wanna say, was it $27 million? And then we did $35 million and then we did $37 million and then COVID hit and we did like $30 million.

Not a good industry to be in.

Yeah, yeah. During COVID But you know, this year coming back, we're gonna succeed that number again and probably do around $40. So it's, which is freaking awesome. So it grew really, really quickly. And because of that, you know, I had no management experience at all. I had no leadership experience. In fact, I turned down all management jobs I'd been offered prior to that. 'Cause I was like, yeah, it doesn't sound fun to me. And then I became kind of the internal leader of the company while Alex was the external leader. And that was how we kind of have grown each of the companies. Gym Launch was our first, then we did Prestige Labs, which was a supplement line. And then Allen, which Dan knows of, was a software company. And now we are focused on what we call acquisition.com, which is really a holding company.

And when you look at that journey, Layla, what are kind of the two biggest challenges along the first 4 or 5 years that you guys had to overcome?

I think that, you know, it's funny 'cause it's like there's all the operational challenges, but I honestly think it's just beliefs. And then it's, thinking, how do I break my own beliefs? And then how do I break the beliefs of everyone on the team so that they can stay here? You know, and I went up to my team actually in 2019. I said, based on the stats, 90% of you won't be here in 5 years. Like based on the stats of the fast-growing company. And I was like, and here's why. And I want to give you all of the tools possible so that you know what to do so that you can be here in 5 years. Because like, I'm going to do what I have to do to serve the company and serve the clients, but I need you to keep up. That's essentially what I'm asking you to do. I'm like, I'm keeping up. It's hard as hell, but I'm keeping up, but I need everyone else to keep up. And so I think it's being able to break your own beliefs and then help break everyone else's beliefs around you. 'Cause I think that's what a true teammate does.

And when you say beliefs, what were some of those that come to mind for yourself?

I mean, I think some of it is like, you know, the goals that you set for the company, like Dan, I think it's what is possible? Why 10X, right? It's like, well, why not? That's really the question. It's like, why should it not be 10X?

Well, I hang out with you and Alex, so I can't, I feel stupid. Stupid even saying $100 million. Like, he, like, this is, that's another thing that everybody hears. But I, you know, I was just with Alex and Layla in Phoenix. Like, I texted them almost every week. Like, you got to get around people that make you feel like you're just not playing bigger. And then it's the, geez, I can't, I can't not do it, you know? But so, but I mean, this is interesting because you had to go to the team in 2019 and say like, We want you to be here, but the truth is, is that there's a series of beliefs that you may or may not even be aware that you have that's going to stop you from taking action that's going to support the customer and the team. And that will be the reason that you're not here, not because you're not a good person, not because you didn't try hard or you didn't do the work, but it's because there might be just— what do you think the beliefs are that they need to kind of start auditing for themselves? Like, how did you do it for yourself as a leader?

Yeah, I think most of the beliefs that people have are just beliefs rooted in fear, right? And so something I really like that I can't remember where I heard it, which is, um, believe the evidence rather than your own beliefs that, you know, squirm around your head. Because I think a lot of times the beliefs that keep people stuck where they are, stuck like not performing where they want to perform, are not rooted in any evidence at all. They may be rooted off like a one-off time that they did something incorrectly or they didn't perform, or they're, they're not based on the evidence of the 100 other times you did anything, or that all the companies that have been able to do this. It's based on fear. And so I think that if everyone can just look at what the evidence is and base their behaviors off of that and just act like the evidence is the belief and ignore the crap that goes on in their head and remember that's just survival. I think that that's what I try to encourage my team to do, at least. I say that— I say a lot, I say you got to prove yourself wrong. Because the things that are in your head, like just because you don't believe you can, most people before they achieve something don't actually believe they can do it. And I think there's like this false belief that like, I should believe in myself before I do. I'm like, are you effing kidding me? I didn't believe I could do Gym Launch. I didn't believe that we would hit the numbers we said we were going to. I was like, I was terrified the whole time. And I was like, I don't know how this is going to happen, but like, I'm just going to try as if it were possible, even though I don't even believe it myself yet.

I love that. The Yeah, I think a lot of times we look at the historical track record to predict the future, but we don't look at like the evidence of, of the growth to say, oh, well, I'm going there, there, there, not this way. So that sounds like a big one. 2019 was probably a big year for you guys to kind of like communicate that to the team, try to get them on board. What other big challenges did you face as an organization, you know, in that early days?

I think the biggest challenge is always leadership. Because the biggest challenge I had was bringing people in in the beginning and they were fit for the company at that time. But when the company is at $10 million versus $40 million, the kind of leadership that's needed is very different. And not everyone's gonna have the same motivation that Alex and I have to grow as people because it's very uncomfortable. You know, I think everyone congratulates you. They're like, congratulations on the growth. But you're like, it feels terrible at the time because you're just constantly shedding who you were and the things that worked for you. And it's like, now, you know, you've been hitting everything with a hammer and you're really good at hitting things with a hammer. And now they're like, here's the screwdriver and the saw. And you're like, I don't know how to use this. And I don't think that everyone has the tenacity to get through that. And so I think the hardest line as somebody that owns a company, runs a company, is when do I know if it's me versus them, right? Like, how do I know if this— and I try to hire for that. I think everyone does, right? But I just do my best to communicate to them what I'm trying to do and what I need them to do to meet me halfway so that we can create the kind of people that we need out of the people who are already here. Who can propel this to the next level. If I can go from a company that's at zero to 50 to $100 million, why can't you? Right? Like, I'm not special. We're made of the same shit. Sorry. I don't know if I can swear.

No swear. You can totally swear. I'm just kidding.

Oh, okay. I thought you said don't. I was like, oh gosh.

No, no, no, no. We're a colorful team. Did anybody make the transition from 10 to 40? And if so, what did you think you saw in them that was different from everybody else?

Yeah, I want to say we have about, out of the leadership, like right now, I want to say that we have 10 core leaders. And out of those 10, there's 3 people who made it from like, they grew from the ground up and are now in leadership roles, and not disclosed, but in about a week, one of them is getting announced as the new CEO. And that there's actually interesting transition that I think they're able to make, they were able to go from high-level producer to managers to leaders to owners, right? And I think there's only a few people that can make it to owners because there's not many needed in the company and it's a really hard thing to do. But for them, it was their absolute coachability. Like, they were the most moldable people that I've ever met. And it actually so happens that they are a married couple who have replaced Alex and I. But I think that what I saw in each of them and what I saw in the husband, because he came in first, was absolute humility. Like if I told him he was, it's like he already knew everything he had done wrong. He never had an ego about anything. He still never does. He has no ego. It never gets in the way. He always puts the company first. He always puts the team first. He always assumes he is wrong first. He never puts himself on a pedestal, um, almost to a fault. That's what we have to probably work on more than anything. And then on the other side, the other woman, um, again, her willingness to learn anything. You know, I told her in the very beginning, she said, you know, I think I'm cut out for this operations, director of operations role and the COO role. And I said, well, because I just let go of my COO at the time. And I said, well, I'm going to do the role for a while. And I just don't know if you have the experience. I probably want to bring in someone with more. So you're gonna have to really prove it to me. And her ability to— I think a lot of times people wonder why they don't get promoted. It's because you're doing two-thirds of your freaking job, right? Like anyone could look and be like, yeah, dude, because you don't do half the shit on your job description. She did everything on her job description, plus like ended up getting to like half of mine. And then eventually she literally told me that she would look at my job description I have for myself and just start taking everything. And she would do it without asking before I even knew it was done. So like the last two quarters ago for the quarterly meetup, I do all the planning and I used to run it and all that stuff. I was getting ready for it. And my assistant was like, oh, don't do any of that. And I was like, why? She's like, oh, Maggie did literally all of it already. I was like, what? She made the presentation. She, already outlined the company goals she believes are correct. She did everything. And I, you know, I went and looked at it and I was like, honestly, some of this is better than what I would do, you know? And I think that's because she just has that drive that she's like, I want to succeed and I want to do that. And so I think it's taking that initiative and taking, like, making sure you're doing 100% your job. And then if you want to level up, go take, go do half of the person above you's job, right? And then the other side of that is I think that for anyone in a leadership position is the humility. And I think that sometimes it's misconstrued, which you've probably seen this, Dan, which is like there's being insecure and then there's having ego, and it's neither of those, right? It's in the middle, which is you have a good sense of self and you are— I think you have a proper view of yourself. Like, you're not insecure. You understand that you're a fallible human. You make mistakes sometimes, but you're not inflated ego where you think you're right all the time. And it's hard to find people that sit in the middle because I think especially once you have more to lose because you've made it higher and higher in the company, you start acting like you've got more to lose and acting arrogantly and getting an ego about things and being less amenable and less open to what others have to say because you've made your way up and you think you know more.

I love that. Leila, before we get to other stuff, I think you had a presentation you put together.

I did. Yeah. I didn't know. I just didn't know.

Well, yeah, I did. Honestly, I could just do Q&A with you.

We can do whatever you guys want to do.

Yeah. No, no. Let's, let's, I'd love to see what you put together. Yeah, your clarity of thinking is, is always off the chart. So I'd love to—

well, what Kelsey kind of explained was that, um, and I don't know if we have time for that, we have 40 minutes, yeah, that's fine, um, is that you guys were talking about 10x leadership growth and how to grow in the company. I think some of you kind of said like, how do you know? Obviously not everyone can be a quote leader in the company, but I think it's just like, what does the term of leader actually mean? And it's like distinguishing that between like a job and a position in the company. Versus, like, the culture. So I kind of put something together based on that. So the quote that I wanted to start with, because this is something I share with my team a lot, and especially people that are new in our company, this is on our culture deck, which is, what should it feel like to work at Gym Launch, right? And what should it feel like to work here? I said it's sort of like learning to ride a bike down a steep, unpaved hill with no brakes. I think that the number one piece of feedback that I hear from people when I say, like, how's the new job going, which is, whether it's in one of my companies or one of the companies we have acquired, they're like, oh, I feel like I'm drinking from a fire hose. And so I think that's just like the first expectation is that it should feel uncomfortable the whole time. I think that if you're not uncomfortable in the business, then the business probably isn't growing and you're just maintaining or you're slowly dying. And so it's good to be uncomfortable. And I think eventually uncomfortable becomes the new comfortable. That being said, what I kind of wanted to go over is just 3 levels of growth that I see for teammates. And then the beliefs, the traits, the skills that go with those. I'm not going to go into the skills so much because that's a little bit more nitty-gritty. And I'd rather focus on the beliefs and traits because I feel like this team, that's probably what you're looking for. It's like, in order to get to the next level, what do I need to believe and who do I need to become? Right? And then the skills kind of go along with that. Because if you are that person, you believe those things, you will go acquire those skills. And then lastly, is I like to think of things in How do I mess this up, right? So if I'm like, how do I grow the business? I think a lot of people are like, that's such an amorphous question. I don't know how to grow the business. So I'm like, well, how do you fucking ruin the business, right? And so what I ask people is, they're like, well, how do I grow in my job? I'm like, well, how do you, you know, stay stuck? And they're like, what? I'm like, yeah, how would you guarantee that you never get a promotion? And they're like, uh, and I'm like, tell me. And then they write it down, and then I say, cool, now do the opposite, and then you'll probably get a promotion, right? And so I like to use that frame to think. Now, I don't do anything, like, fancy. I don't have any cool names for anything in here because this is just, like, what I have communicated to my team and what makes sense to me, and it's just easily laid out. And so nomenclature is not something that's super important to me. So if it's a little dry, that's just how I kind of do things. I think of it like 3 levels. First level is going to be a producer, right? It's someone who's able to create positive business impact through their technical expertise, their influence, and their vision. I think that a lot of times what's lost on people is they think producer, they think, oh, you don't have any power, you don't have any influence. And that's just absolutely absurd and wrong. Some of the best people in my company are absolute producers. They're not leaders and they're not managers, but they are leaders in who they are as a person. The second level to that would be a manager, right? I consider that to be somebody who's responsible for supervising and motivating employees that are in the direction that the business is going. And I think that that is a very important point because, Dan, you've probably seen this. You bring in someone that's a manager at one company, you bring them to this company, they're motivating and they're supervising in the wrong direction because maybe it's what the last company wanted them to do. Maybe it's the culture of the old company. And so I think it's really important as a manager, you don't bring those old practices. You have to adapt to the company that you're in and make sure that you can motivate and supervise people within the constraints of the culture that you're in. And then there's leaders. And that is, when I think of a leader and what's the biggest difference between a leader and a manager, right? And people ask us a lot because I think in our company, we have a decent amount of leaders who are like, how do I, or a decent amount of managers who wanna know how they can become leaders. And I said, you have to gain more leverage is essentially what it is. And you gain that through rallying people to move toward a vision. You have to become inspirational essentially. Like, I don't think I would have any leader in my company who's not inspirational. Oftentimes people say, well, I'm not a leader. I said, I'm not inspired by you. Like, have you heard? Honestly, I'm just like, dude, have you heard yourself talk? Do you see how you show up? Like, it's just not inspirational. And so I think that people kind of, you know, brush those things aside, but it's like, if you can't inspire people, they're not going to want to move in the direction you want them to. So when I think of a manager, I think of someone with 2 hands. When I think of a leader, I think of someone with 10 hands. And that's just kind of the visual that I put in my mind and I tell my team. And then you've got the last level, which I, you know, I'm not really going to go into depth here, but I think owner, right? Which is Dan. Right? You are essentially resource allocator, the person that's ultimately responsible for the results of leaders, managers, and producers. And when I say resource allocator, it's fiscal and human capital. I think a lot of people just think fiscal, but I think the most important is human capital. And I think Dan would be able to speak to that. You know, it's who are you bringing into the business? How are you attracting talent? How are you creating the business into a product that attracts people that wanna work there? Kind of like what you said, like, I'm not gonna, you're not gonna work here if the goal was 1 million. It's like, well, because you're looking, what resources can I bring in to allocate to this? And so I think that looking at what you guys want to do for next year, because the goal is $35 million, is that correct? Yep.

Or no, next year is $24 million.

Okay. The, the phrase that I imprint in my mind, this is actually from a presentation that I did from when we went from doing about $25 million to, I think it was $36 million. I don't, I I had a slide with the numbers and then I didn't know if I should have it, but, um, efficiency is important. Adaptability is imperative. And I think that the reason for that is a lot of people get really stuck on making something really perfect and being absolutely perfect rather than focusing on adaptability. And most importantly, adaptability as a person, you know what I mean? Because of this, which is technology is going to keep going and you guys are frontline of that. You know, this is SaaS Academy. This is, You know, you guys are involved with software every day. It's growing extremely fast, and we can't even keep up with it. And so it's like, if you want to have even a slight chance to keep up with what's happening in the world right now, you have to be an adaptable person. Efficient companies and efficient people are as successful as their environments allow them to be, whereas adaptable companies create their own success despite the environment. I look at the year of COVID Think how many companies said, Well, I'm fucked. I'm in, you know, in-person, I can, I mean, I can tell you in-person gyms, in-person restaurants, they're like, I'm screwed. I know people that made more during the year of COVID Our most successful gyms actually made more during COVID than they did the year prior. And that's because they succeeded despite their environment. That's because of the kind of teams they were. I looked at them. I was like, I know the reason they're succeeding is because of who the owner is and who the people on their teams are. Cause I know them. They hop on calls like this. And so what I want you guys to be able to identify right now is if you could put in the chat, do you consider yourself 1, a producer, drop a 1, 2, a manager, drop a 2, or 3, a leader, drop a 3? I just want you guys to be able to identify. So as we go through this, you can kind of— it's catered to you and you can take it personally. The second thing is I would love if you guys could, you know, whether it's a notepad on your computer, a notepad on your desk or on your phone, just write down, just make a little column. And on one side you can just write strength and on the other side, right, area of opportunity. Because what I want to talk about is what it looks like to be at each of those levels. And then what keeps you stuck? If you can identify what that is or where you're lacking right now, then you can say, cool, I know all my goals for this next quarter, but like, what do I get to work on as a person? Where am I?

I actually just did this exercise, Layla, with the whole company, the strengths and weaknesses. So they've, they're, they just got out of that. So they've got it front and center.

Oh, well then just keep it to the side, right? But you can add to it. Yeah. So the first one is when I'm thinking of producers and I'm thinking of in a fast growth company, I think that's really a caveat to this, guys, is I think the reason, Dan, you probably want me to talk is because the company grew quickly and you want these companies to grow quickly. That's what you guys are aiming to do. And so it's like, how do people in these kinds of companies grow quickly? Well, one is I look for people when I'm hiring someone for a producer position, right? Which is, You could call it a high-level individual contributor. And I say high-level because I don't want just an individual contributor. I want someone who's a high-level individual contributor, right? The belief is that to lead the way, you must first go the way. So I can give you an example of this, which is the reason I was always offered management positions at my job, is I remember I worked at the smoothie cafe. And it was in the engineering campus of a college, and I worked there for 5 years. And when I came in, I was like, this job sucks. I was like, everyone here is so upset every day. Like, If you've ever met engineers who are like mechanical, electric, whatever, when they're going through their PhD programs, they like hate the world. They hate their lives. They're just very upset all the time. And I was like, this is no fun. I'm like a fun person. I'm like upbeat. Like, this is not my good time. And I remember talking to my dad about it and he was like, you know, I mean, you could probably make a difference. And I was like, I don't know. I don't fit in here. Like, I'm like everyone else's engineers that are working here. I'm like in exercise science and like working out and all this stuff. And so I said, you know what, I'm going to treat it like a game.. And I'm just going to say, I wonder how many people I can get to smile here. And so I worked at the cash register and I looked at it like a little video game. I was like, how I'm going to smile all the time. And I'm gonna smile at my coworkers. I'm gonna smile at the people coming in. And all I'm going to do is aim to just make their day amazing. And so I was like, if I give everyone a compliment, it'll make their day amazing. And so I looked at it. I just remember thinking of it like a video game, probably because being a cash register person is not exciting anyways. Um, and I would, As everyone came in, I would always look at something that they're wearing, something that they were doing, something about them, and just try and give them a compliment. And sometimes they thought it was even weird. So I remember like one guy, I was like, oh, you have really pretty blue eyes. And he was like, okay. But I mean, everyone laughed, right? And within like 3 weeks of me doing it, the boss at the time came to me. He was like, I need you to be the manager here. And I was like, why? She's like, you've literally transformed the culture within a couple of weeks. She's like, people are like happy. She's like, the coworkers are like like coming to work. She's like, you just have an attitude that inspires people around you. And I was like, oh, I don't want to be a manager, but you see my point, right? Which I didn't know at the time what entailed. It's that I think that people underestimate as a producer what you can do. And they think, oh, I can just hide over here because I'm not responsible for people. Like, I don't need— I don't have responsibility like the rest of people in this company. That's not true at all. It's like, if you ever want to whether you want to stay in a producer role, because there's nothing wrong with that. Some people get paid a ton of money to stay producers, and some people like doing that. But if you want to stay in the company, because, you know, you have to continue to grow, people don't want to see that you flatlined, right? Because nobody that's an A player wants to work with somebody who's a B or a C player. That's just the truth of it. So other people are going to point to you and be like, Sally hasn't done crap in 3 years. You know what I mean? You may have in the first 90 days, but you haven't in 3 years. Um, and I think that you have to really think about embodying these traits.. And when I think of a producer, I think of these 3 that make the triad, which is they're autonomous. Just because you have somebody that is overseeing you doesn't mean you don't manage your own time. You don't set your own goals. You don't manage your own growth plan. You're driven. So you are self-motivated. I think oftentimes we think, how do I motivate people? And what I tell my managers a lot is I think, how would you demotivate somebody? And just don't do any of that. A lot of studies have shown you don't motivate people. You just demotivate them. That's what bad managers do. And so the goal is that you find people who are driven and you just let them be driven. And then the third piece to it is industrious, which is doing the hard work. I think that everyone wants to, like, I'm sure Dan, just like me, I want to hire people who are producers who can do the work of 5 people. That's my goal. And so as a producer, that is what it looks like to be fulfilling that role. Now, if you are somebody who is interested in How do I become a higher-level contributor? How do I contribute more to the team, add more value, or maybe, maybe move up at some point? These are the 3 things that I've seen have been what have debilitated people on my teams from moving up, right? Lack of awareness of their own deficits, which I think that's an obvious one. If you don't know where you're deficient, which it sounds like you guys already did an activity, which is awesome, you can't move up. But the other 2, I think, are the most important, which is because I don't think they're talked about often. The first one being the inability to delay gratification. So I'll tell you the conversation I had, which was with Sean, and I can publicly share this because Sean wouldn't care. Sean is one of the top-producing sales guys in our company. And he said, I want the chance to be a sales manager. And so we're like, Sean, you know the stats on that, which they're pretty bad. And you're like really good sales guy. We don't really want you to even want to be manager, but you've been here for a long time. We're gonna give you the chance. Right. And about 3 weeks in, he messaged me and he's like, coach, he's like, I just like hate this. And I was like, what do you hate? He was like, I just like love the feeling of making a sale and getting money and seeing the commissions and seeing the revenue go up. And I hate having to work through other people to do it. And I said, well, of course, it's like, you're human. We all hate that because we want instant gratification. Because when you do it yourself, immediately get the reward. Layla, you did a great job. Layla did this on the company meeting. Layla, Layla, Layla. Right. But when you go through other people, you get one thing taken away, which is it's not Layla anymore. It's Layla's team. Layla gets forgotten. And the second thing is you don't get that instant gratification. You have to work through the other person and then maybe you see the result on the other side. And it's not that there's anything wrong with you, or you shouldn't be able to be a manager because of this. It's that you haven't trained yourself. You haven't given yourself enough opportunity to learn that eventually it becomes normal and you. And then you seek gratification from watching other people successfully do things. That's the first thing. The second thing is a lack of people and linguistic skills. And I say linguistic because I think language is very important. And I think that the way you speak to people, often the biggest issues that my leaders have right now is they don't know how to communicate something to somebody without offending them or without causing more conflict. And it's because I don't think that they have studied language. And so I'll tell you about Mel. Mel was, our customer, she was our customer service lead. And at that point I was looking for a customer service manager. She said she wanted a shot. I was a little nervous because I was like, listen, your communication skills are not the best. People on the team have a hard time communicating with you. If you want to go in this position, I need you to be able to communicate effectively. I do not want to jump in there and communicate on your behalf. Right. And so she said, give me 2 weeks. I gave Mel 2 weeks and we met every day and we coached and we talked about it. What Mel was unable to do was that when somebody had a problem, when somebody was complaining about a customer, when somebody said something out of step on a meeting, Mel had no idea how to effectively communicate to that person if they were out of line, what they needed to do. It's like the words wouldn't come out of her mouth. She was so good at what she did. People could tell she cared, but it was just like the skill wasn't there. And so she ended up trying for 2 weeks and then we actually ended up hiring somebody else. She worked with us for about 4 years. But that's why MELSA suck. And that's why Sean is still in his position, right? Those two things, these are all learnable. We are all humans. We are all learning machines. So we can all learn anything. It's just, do you have enough self-motivation to learn it? And do you really want what you want? Now, as for managers, I think that if it, how many people in here are in a management position? You just raise your hand. The, what a lot of people see and what I'm sure you guys have seen other companies that maybe you've been in is that a lot of people seek management, not because they want to serve, but because they want to control. And so that is why fundamentally, when I'm looking at somebody for management position, that's the tagline I put in the job description. It's like, management is service, not control, right? The best managers I've ever had, I'll tell you about Lily, for example. Lily was a frontline customer service manager. This is in a different company. And she, I didn't know this. I found out weeks in when we were hiring people that Lily was staying for 2 to 3 hours after her shift ended, to train new people and help them and coach them on how to do their job. Lily was not a lead. She was not a manager. She didn't clock in. She actually, I was actually upset because I was like, legally, you can't do that. But she literally went behind and I met with her. I said, Lily, why are you doing this? She said, well, they need help and I know how to do this. And I was like, wow. So I actually put Lily in that position. She ended up being one of the best, you know, customer service managers that we ever had because her intent was that she cared. She didn't want control. She felt obligated to hold them accountable. And she felt like in order for them to be better people, she had to hold them accountable. That was her true belief. She's like, I care about these people. I need to tell them how to be more efficient. I need to hold them accountable. I need to coach them. And that was why Lily did such a great job in the role. She ended up becoming director of customer service for two of our companies. Now, the traits that someone like Lily had, she was reliable. She was like a freaking rock. Nobody wants to work for someone that they feel unsafe with. They're not gonna be able to be creative, right? So you have to be able to learn how to become the rock for others, right? The second issue is confident, but she wasn't arrogant, you know? And I think that especially in a company that's looking to grow like you guys are this coming year, confidence is being able to say, I haven't done this yet, but based on my track record, I can figure it out. And so when a challenge is presented to you, you're not concerned. You're not wavering. You're, okay, I've not done this, but I've done things similar. And I can recall that I have overcome those. And then organized, because I think that oftentimes I have had great managers who have all those aspects and they think, oh, I'll have other people on my team be the organized ones. It's like, no, that's not true. Somebody has to organize all of the people to go in the right direction to align for the business. And I feel like this team is very organized, but I think it's important to point out. That being said, how do you stay stuck in a position, right? And I think that actually this is, in my opinion, this is, you know, going from a producer to a manager or leader, I think a lot of people know if they want to move out of that role or not. And they kind of go into the role with the intention of, hey, I want to be in this role for a long time, or hey, I do want to move up. But I think the hardest one is actually going from manager to leader. And I think that these are the reasons that I've seen why people have not been able to move past a lead or management position into a true leadership role. And so the first one is being that they stay stuck in the details rather than being able to zoom in and zoom out. And I think this is really relevant because when you're a manager, you're talking to people who are most likely interacting with the vendors or the customers or something at the ground level every day. And so those people every day don't have the perspective that any leadership has because they're in the nitty-gritty. You guys know if you're someone that's doing this. And so what seems like a big deal to you might not actually be a big deal to the business.. And this is what happened with Allison. Allison was in finance and she was an administrative role. And she really wanted to become a lead for the finance department and lead the billing and the AR and all that. And I remember that we had a company meeting like this. And Allison brought up, hey, you know, when we pay out our affiliates, I really think we need Venmo. It's becoming a problem. And I was like, well, we pay them out, we have wire transfer, bank to bank, and we have PayPal. Why do we need Venmo? Like, how many people is this a problem? She's like, a lot of people. It's like, we need to make this an initiative this quarter. And we were like, I mean, that adds a lot. Like, so I said, Alison, can you please go pull up how many people out of our 1,000 affiliates have asked for this? And so she's like, okay. And she goes, and she was like, well, 4 over the last 6 weeks. I was like, so 4 people out of 1,000 over the last 6 weeks have asked for this, and you think it should be a company initiative? She was like, yeah. It's like, no. And so that's a, it's a clear reason why I was like, Alison, I can't promote you because she constantly did that. She constantly stayed, she was overly concerned with things she should have just been mildly concerned about. And sometimes people think, oh no, it's my, my high concern and anxiety that makes me good at things. It's like, no, it's to a detriment much of the time. You can be concerned, concerned, that's great. That's going to help you drive the ball forward. That's enough to make you move. Overly concerned debilitates you and gets you to focus on things that don't matter. And that is probably the first thing I see of why people can't move out of that management into that leadership. The second piece is that they don't take the time to solve their own problems. I've seen this a lot in management where, especially if they come from companies prior where there's a lot of red tape and there's a lot of approvals and checks and balances, is that they come into an entrepreneurial company like this, or like the one that I run, and they're, they're not able to solve their own problems. And I tell them, I'm like, I didn't hire you to check a box. I hired you to solve a problem that I have. I say that to everyone that comes on the team. But sometimes it's not taken to heart and sometimes it takes people too long. And it's like, they can't, there's, for some reason, they don't trust themselves to solve the problem. And so what I tell them to do often, and what I tell you to do, if you don't often solve your own problems, you constantly just immediately slap Kelsey or Dan or Jared or somebody else on the team, have the discipline to sit for 10 minutes alone and say, I'm going to make myself sit in silence with nothing around me for 10 minutes and see if I can solve this problem myself. Almost every time I do this, the problem is solved. And then they run it by me and I'm like, that is exactly what I would've done. But it's that, it's disciplined thinking, right? It's saying, I need to think about this alone in isolation first before I bring it to anybody else. I can probably solve this myself. And then the last one is probably the most important in terms of, in order to be a leader and to move out of management, you have to command respect from others. You have to have respect for the team, right? I would never put someone in a leadership position if the team didn't respect them. Right? The team can drive a leader out. Is treating your team like employees rather than loyal followers. And this is a conversation I had with my now Chief Operating Officer, Maggie. We talked about a year and a half ago about this. She said, Layla, she's like, what is, what's missing for me to really step into this next level role? And I was like, man, it's really hard to put my finger on it. 'Cause like, technically, you check all the boxes, you hold everyone accountable. Like, she does the job on paper and like excels at it. I was like, what's the nuance that's missing? And I was like, I get it. I was like, you look at them like employees or teammates, but not like they should be your loyal followers. I was like, I look at the team like they're my followers and that's how I treat them. That's how I talk to them. Like I would educate them. I would want them to succeed. I would pour into them like I would to the clients that we coach. It's the same. In fact, probably more for the team. She was like, huh. And it was funny because she immediately made the switch. And so to kind of, what showed me that she kind of had made that level up was 2 quarters later at our leadership meeting, we said, who wants, I made an activity together and it was basically to deliver to the executive team. And every person had the opportunity to ask an executive for insight on themselves, feedback, et cetera. And she had twice as many submissions as I did because she literally was able to turn the team into her followers. And that's what I told her. I said this, if it's my team, and my followers, I can never level up. You have to go in there and insert yourself and somehow persuade them to follow you. And she was able to do it. I thought that, that was like one of the coolest moments for me. But I think a lot of times people see themselves, they're like, I'm managing, I'm doing a job, but there's a lot of intangibles you don't think about. What makes somebody worth following? I think that's a question you have to ask yourself. Why should people follow me? That's what, when I do the things I do every day and stay integrity with myself, I ask myself that. I'm like, would I follow me? I always wanna make sure that what I'm doing behind closed doors, I'd be proud to tell my team. I never wanna keep anything. I want it to be absolutely transparent. There's no doors, there's nothing. It's a window. And then the last level is leader, right? And so I think that this is in one of your core values, Dan, which is the belief of leaders that they grow the team and the team grows the business. I think that's the fundamental belief, because if you've gotten to a level of leadership, most likely you're you're at a point where you cannot yourself do everything, right? And you can't meticulously even manage it all at a point. You have to oversee it. In looking at what that looks like, I think that in the beginning you asked me the traits that created those people that were able to stick along. And that's why I put the first one here is humility, which I think I already explained. But the other two, I think, are the two most important for longevity. Which are empathy and poise. Poise, I would consider, is a kind of confidence you cannot get without experience. So that is why a lot of people, I think, want to move up very quickly and they want to skip all the hard shit to become a leader. And you cannot, because you won't have poise. Like people, when they see, I would say 2 years ago, when Alex and I would talk on team meetings versus another leader, people would say, I just know what it is. Like, they just don't have the it factor you guys have. I'm like, well, there's no it factor. It's poise. It's because I slept in the motels. It's because I dug it from the ground up. It's because we were there when it was almost going to crash. It's because we got through COVID, right? I didn't quit. Because if you quit on yourself, you don't get poise. And I think a lot of people look like, how do I become a leader? And how do I become as good as, you know, these people on the team or Dan without doing that shit? It's like, you don't, right? It's earned. And so that's why poise is there. It's what you earn in order to become a leader. And then lastly is empathy. I think that empathy comes from an ability to, when you talk to somebody, and this is just the way I like to put it, is you're not on opposite sides of the table. You sit on the same side when you have conversations. It is small but nuanced. In sales, if you sit on the same side of the table, you are more likely to close the sale. Try it. I did it in person all the time. I would just pull their chair around. It's like, we're on the same team. Yes, we can disagree. Yes, we can have differences of opinion, but we have the same end goal in mind. And if you're on the same team, if you're in this call right now, you have the same end goal in mind. And so most importantly, how do you stay stuck at a level of leadership? Right? Cause especially in this company, I'm sure based on looking at the org chart and stuff, there's different levels to leadership. I think there's 3 things. And if you're even just looking to improve in the state that you're in as a leader, I think that the first is thinking of, I think it's the mindset switch between, oh, what's the product that we're creating, to my product is my team. If you are the leader and you want to be a leader in this company of, I wanna say more than 10 people, right? You have to see your team as the product that creates the other thing. And that's something I explained to my COO in the recent past, because she was talking a lot about tactical things. I said, why are you talking about this? I said, you should be talking about your team. She was like, oh, it's like, I don't want updates about these projects. Ugh. I was like, tell me what's going on with the team. You know, where are we deficient? Where do we need better people? Where are you supported? Right? Who's doing two-thirds of their job? I like to say that a lot. It's like, who's doing two-thirds of the job description? The second piece to it, and I think this is for anyone, especially if who's a newer leader, and it looks like we have a lot of new people who could be newer leaders on this call. Is that you have a too short of a time horizon. I think this is a conversation I had with Kale. And Kale, a year and a half ago, said, you know, I just, you know, I don't know really what role is next for me. I don't have a super clear vision for myself. And I said, well, I do. He was like, well, what? And I was like, I mean, I think you could be CEO. And he was like, oh, I don't think so. I said, well, that's weird. I was like, who else would be better in the company? I was like, who else was here from the beginning, did a sales role, sales manager role, coaching role, coaching manager role, product role, marketing role. It's like, and now is the manager of the whole company. He's like, uh, I guess me. I was like, right. He's like, well, I just don't feel like I'm there. And I'm like, there's only one reason why. He's like, what? I was like, all the decisions you propose are short-term minded. Everything that you propose on the meetings, short-term minded. You're not thinking of the long-term. I said, you have to think if this is your company and you're building to a legacy and you want to get to this number in this many years, how do you make decisions? And it was like the moment that he got that switch, the entire team, how they, how they treat him and how they see him has completely changed. Because I think the one thing like Dan, you can look at is you can see the future and you can project out and you can say, this is what it's going to look like in 5 or 10 years.. And if someone can do that and they can cast vision, he actually recently last week did our annual vision presentation to the team. And it was like, so good. I got chills and was crying because I was like, this is amazing. Like, he's got it now. He's got the vision. Right. And I think that if you want to become a true leader and level up in your leadership skills, you have to be able to paint that vision for people. If you can paint it for the company, they can paint themselves within it. And if you can't paint it long enough,— is on a long enough road of where the company's going, how are they gonna see themselves and all their careers and aspirations within it? They're not going to. And then the last piece is seeking approval and boosting your ego rather than doing what's right for the company. And I think I kind of hit on this again with your question, Dan, which is I think a lot of people, once they get to a level in the company, they're so afraid of losing it. And they're so afraid of saying that other people who are newer and have less of a title and who have less experience are right. And they dismiss those opinions. And that is one thing that I'm really lucky that I had mentors in the beginning that were like, never skip past anybody in the decision-making process. Ask frontline, ask managers, ask leaders, ask everyone. Don't ever skip. And it's something that I noticed that I didn't do a good job in the beginning of teaching my leaders. And so I would have people come to me and they're like, this is what we need to do. And I'm like, well, what does Jake and Paul and Mark think? And they're like, I don't know, but they don't really know. I'm like, dude, you're missing all the gold. Like every, like the whole team together, the more people that make a decision, the more people that have input in the decision, the better the decision's outcome is going to be. And there's been studies on that. So it's making sure that you can put your ego aside and not say, just because I have this title and I have this responsibility that I have to be right all the time and that I'm the right person for everything and that I'm always the best at these things. I think it's the leaders who are able to be humble enough to admit when maybe their idea isn't right for the company, or maybe they're not right for their role anymore. Those are the best people. I've had people who have told me, I don't think I'm right for this role anymore. And I just don't know where else in the company I could go. And they are some of the best people I have to date. It's because they were doing what was right for the company first and foremost, even though they were, I think, terrified to tell me. And it ended up working out for them. So I'm gonna skip over that little, you know, but if we wanna open it up to questions, I hope that was a useful framing.

Oh my gosh, Layla, that was incredible. Let's give some love to Layla, everybody. That's how we do it here. You know, I just wanna acknowledge Layla, like your brilliance of the, what is it? What does suck look like? Like, so everybody's always like, how do I, how do I, how do I? It's like, well, what does it look like if you're doing it bad? And if all you did was not do that, that's a material impact improvement to the team. And then it's like, well, what's the opposite of that? Okay, how am I showing up on those levels? So I just love that reframe. It's just, and I can use that in every aspect of my life. It's like, well, how do I get better? It's like, well, what does shitty look like? Let's just not do that. And then there's opportunities. I want to hear from everybody in the chat. What was your number one takeaway from what Layla shared with everybody below? I know they were posting it in real time as you were teaching, but that's my big takeaway is just the, what does shitty look like? Let's not do that. And then the opposite. And I just love the reframe of like manager versus leader, because you're right, it's inspirational and followers. It's like, if I'm not inspired by this person, I wouldn't want to follow this person. And you don't, That's not— you're not a leader, right? You're just a title manager. And it's— and the idea of being a high producer, I think some people think they're high producers and they're only doing two-thirds of their job, right? Layla, I love that. Cool. We're going to go to Q&A. Thanks so much for posting in the chat.

But let's go with Karen. Hi, Layla. Hi, Karen. It's lovely to meet you. Thank you so much. That was amazing. I have two quick questions. Number one was I'm wondering what your process was from stepping back from the management of your businesses to the overseeing role. And the second question is, can you speak to failure and your view of how failure works within your companies? I'm a massive Brené Brown fan, and she was talking about this, you know, there's no innovation or creativity without failure. And so I wondered what your thoughts were on that. Yeah. In terms of stepping back, it was, you know, I'm like, how would one step back and really become an owner? And I'm like, well, there has to be a person, you know, there has to be that leader, that inspirational figure for people to rely on and have that influence over the company. And so I said, is that external or internal? And I had somebody internally who I was like, I have a lot of faith in her. And I think, I really think based on her track record, she can do it. And so I decided about 2 years ago that she was the person I wanted to mentor, like very, very closely and pour into. And so, you know, I communicated that to her. I said, what do you want? And it aligned with her career, which is very important. If it didn't align with her career, I would never try and fit her in it. And it's worked out really well. I think that's been the number one relationship I focused on in the business. And because of it, you know, I just poured as much as I possibly could into her over time. And our communication is immaculate. So focusing on our communication relationship and then transfer of skills over that 2 years. So it's like every quarter, more responsibilities go her way, see how they do, give her feedback. You know, I think it's, you can't just delegate, you have to QA after you delegate it.

And so it was a process, it took time.

And on the failure side, Leila, how do you encourage? I think that the only reason that people have to even consider anything about failure is because they're judging themselves. I think it's that we have this like view that like what, you know, I think if you read anything on like human nature and like how our brains work, right? It's like what you, we take people at face value. So you see me, you think, oh, Layla doesn't have any problems. I have tons of fucking problems, right? You see other people in this call, you're like, oh, they don't have it as hard. My problem is better than your problem. And like my failure is worse than your failure. And failure feels terrible. Like you're gonna die for most of us every time. But I think that what makes it so much worse is when you think you shouldn't. And that's like for my team, when they think they shouldn't fail, I'm like, dude, you're a human. Like you are part of the human species. You are, if you're a monkey, you fail. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, you're a human, you fail, you are fallible. You will make mistakes and you will do things that are not in your best interest, even though you think you know better. And even when you know better, and it's just like the judgment that we put on ourselves, we're so harsh to ourselves in our head. That's what makes failure so terrible. Failing itself, like, So if I were to just like absolutely show up and just do a terrible job, like on this presentation, for example, it'd be like, okay, I didn't do a good job on that presentation. Or it could be like, you're a fucking terrible person. You shouldn't be a leader. You're not, you should never do a presentation again. For sure. You're gonna mess up next time. Definitely. And then the next time you go to do one, you're like terrified and nervous. And because of the nervousness, because of the self-criticism, you fuck it up. And then you prove to yourself that you're a failure. And it's only because of the junk in your head.. And so I think that for most people, I tell them, I'm like, dude, you just got to identify the junk in your head and start training yourself to think differently, talk to yourself differently. And I, it sounds simple, but it's just like, it just makes the fall that much harder. If you're not actually catching yourself, you're just kicking yourself when you're down.

I love that. For Karen, everybody, thanks for the question, Karen. Sam, question for Layla.

Hey Layla.

Um, great session, by the way. I loved it. Sam here from the East Coast of Canada on the marketing team. I'm just curious, how do you look at pushing your direct reports with fear of breaking them or giving them too much to do and other places in their, their, in their work falling apart?

I think there's a couple of things, which is one, I would rather people have more on their plate than not enough. So that's the first stance I'll take. If I want to hire people who like work and are high producers. I would rather they're a little overwhelmed than less to do because then they really start to get wonky. The second piece of that is I think it's all about communication. Like when someone asks me, they're like, well, I just don't know if we can take on this project. I said, well, why don't you ask? And then like every day check in and say, how's it going? How many hours are you working? You know, are you work— you know, just, I think that it's just keeping the open line of communication. Like I'll tell my assistant, for example, I'm like, I'm gonna keep giving you stuff until you tell me to stop. Your job, you know, and I'm obviously going to help monitor with you because we have transparency through where they're documenting what they're doing. But I think a lot of it is reminding people that they are full-grown functioning adults who have to raise their hand and say, I have too much work on my plate, I can't keep working till midnight. And I think that you just have to be the one to initiate conversation and say the door is open and say on the one-on-one, ask. But if they don't tell you, That's on them.

This is a team of adults. And that's a weekly or daily thing.

Just keep doing it.

I mean, I think weekly is fine. Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate it, Sam, everybody.

Great question. We are all adults. Dan DC. Hey, Layla, thank you so much. I got a lot about, uh, out of your session on what not to do. That's been amazing, but it feels weird because I watch your videos and now it says every day you guys are gym buddies. So to actually get to interact with you is really, really cool. Um, cool. Uh, so, uh, Alex and, and you talk a lot about like skill acquisition and doing to learn, right? But if you're coaching someone on your team on a more granular level on, on, on acquiring a new skill, what path do you lay for them and what kind of feedback loops do you create for, for, for quicker skill acquisition? Um, it depends. Is it a skill that you already have? Either getting better at it or even something brand new, if that helps. So if it's a skill that I don't have, then I'm going to hold them accountable to the process of acquiring the skill. If it's a skill that I have, then I hold us both accountable to me coaching them on the skill. And I prefer to do it quickly. And I think Alex is the same way, which is if I'm trying to train someone on something new, I think lots of repetition in a short period of time is better than like one time a week trying to focus on this skill. And so I feel like you can just go faster with more, like, for example, if we're training, actually it reminds me of the marketing team, because when we have new people that are in marketing, like editing videos, for example, like I know that our marketing manager gets on with them every single day and goes over the videos and critiques the videos live with them on a Zoom. And he does that every day until they're where they need to be. And I used to hop on them, you know, say 4 years ago in the beginning to watch. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is like, but then they get better so much faster. And so that's how I would do it if I was training them on the skill. If it's a process that I'm holding them accountable to, I would have them let the team know the skill that they're looking to acquire and then set themselves the goals of how quickly they're going to learn the skill. And then I would be checking in with them that they're setting the time aside to train themselves on the skill. And I would hold them accountable to that, which is the process, you know, putting the time aside to actually do that in the workday. Awesome.

Thanks.

Of course. Cool.

Next up, we got Jeff.

There's like a theme to my questions. Layla, what's the next book I need to read, or we all need to read? Other than the one Dan's sending, of course.

What is Dan sending you? He won't tell us. He won't say. It's a surprise. It's a Christmas present.

It's on, it's on OKRs though, Layla. I think you could figure it out. Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You know, I recommend this to my team still because I think that it's a really good book and I know Dan, you liked the book, but I think like The Hard Thing About Hard Things is a great book for this team. You know, I've told it's really hard, but Patrick Lencioni, like I just think if you read all of his books, All of them. There's like 12, I think. I think those are the best ones for teams to read. So I've had my team, we used to do lots of like reading sessions. So we went through and one team read all of them in one year. I think we did like one a month. Great. Thank you very much. You know, it's funny, people ask me like, what's the one book?

I'm like, there's not one.

Yeah.

It's always the right book for you right now. So Jeff, it's kind of like, you know how we did the feedback session and people gave you feedback and there was like the weaknesses. Yeah, go read the book. That would probably answer and support you the best there. Beauty.

Thanks.

Awesome. Jeff, everybody. We're gonna wrap it up with Johnny. Johnny, question for Leila. Hey Leila, um, thanks so much for everything you shared today. I'm curious, uh, of how you manage the dynamic of such a high-growth team where, you know, some make the growth, we'll call it the leap, and others don't. How did, from a cultural perspective, how did you manage that dynamic when, you know, the proof is in how they, how they grow and you only find that out. They may look good on the way in, they just may not make the leap.

How did you manage the culture?

Do you mean mitigating like terminations and churn? Yeah, just, you know, that some eventually become not the right person for the role, right? And how, like, if that, if you're growing really, really quickly, if not everyone, if 90% of the people there aren't there in 5 years, there's a, this needs to become a practice.

I think it's kind of what I was saying with the transparency about it. I said, you know, to make this okay and to make sure our culture can withstand, you know, this fast growth and a lot of the changes that have to happen, I just have to be— I just have to give them the same information I have, which is like, this is what I'm operating with. My belief is that I am here to serve the business because the business serves the clients and it pays everyone at the end of the day. And if you're not able to keep up despite all of our efforts and all this, It's not that I don't like you or that you're not right for the job in a year, but you're not right for it right now. And I cannot risk the team and their payroll for everyone else's families to keep you here. And so that's always been my belief. And so I think if you have that belief, when you speak to the team and they're like, why did this happen? I'm like, dude, he just like, not a bad person, not this, not that, just not right now, not this team, not gonna get us to where we need to go. And I think a lot of times people get a little too romantic about jobs. You know, some people know that they're only a CFO for businesses that go from, $100 to $500 million and they just go do that at every single company. And there's a lot of people who, you know, they're not going to be able to continue to grow, they should just go do that. That's just not what we— I mean, I don't think that's what anyone wants, but I think that— I think there's a lot of negativity around churn and it's like, well, is it good churn or bad churn? That's also something you should manage and you should look at, which is like the reasons why people leave and aren't in the company. And if it's because, you know, you guys have grown too much and you have to seed people out, I think you've heard like in Blitzscaling and Reid Hoffman, all of them, they're like, that's normal. So I think it's setting expectations in the beginning when people come in. I tell people when they come into our companies, how it goes, you know, what it looks like. Like you can read reviews online. You'll see that people are like, oh, they kept me for only, you know, 2 years. And then they said I wasn't able to grow fast enough. And I was like, well, they weren't. I was like, if you don't like that, you need more security, which security is pretty fake anyways.

Then go somewhere else. Love that. Awesome, Johnny, everybody. And with that, uh, Layla, I just want to thank you so much for the time. Appreciate you and Alex so much and can't wait to hang out in the near future.

Enjoy the holidays.

I will see you soon.

Thank you. Let's give some love to Layla. Thanks, Layla. Thank you so much, Layla. Thank you. Thank you.