What is the RIGHT Way as an adult to deal with a Toxic People | Jefferson Fisher

When you're dealing with bullies, we all know from growing up, it's these people that have unmet needs from when they were growing up. Same thing in everyday workplace. When you're dealing with somebody belittling you or being rude or condescending, when they do that, what I want you to do is to ask them a question. And it's a question that they're not going to be used to. And it is, you're asking them to say it again. Whenever you ask them to repeat it, it's something they were not— number one, they weren't expecting it. Number two, they're not going to want to do it because the first effect is gone. You've already blown out the candle. They don't want to have to relight it. It's this idea of, I already said the bad thing. Oh no, they didn't. I didn't get the reaction what I want. I didn't get that hit of dopamine. I didn't get that that self-gratification. Instead, if you ever say something ugly as a bully or somebody who's being ugly in the workplace, and I say, I— can you catch— can you say that again? I didn't catch all that. Can you, can you repeat that for me? It is not nearly as fun for them the second go-around. And whenever that happens, if they have the guts, which they probably won't, but if they have the guts to repeat it then you ask a question of intent like, did you, did you say that to embarrass me? Did you say that to offend me? Did you say that to make me upset? Did you want that to hurt me? You can begin with, did you? Or how did you expect me to respond to that? How did you feel when you, when you said that to me? These are things that, again, just like we talked about, you're not catching it. And throwing it back. It hasn't even reached your doorstep yet because all you've done is just taken that spotlight that was on you and just go put it right back on them because it's a mirror. That's all you're doing whenever you do that.

It's really good because I was looking up statistics prior to this and I knew that there was a lot of— I love a statistic, although these days who knows what's fact or fiction. But what the internet was telling me, which is always a dangerous place to start, is that for young people today that There was a couple studies done by Boys and Girls Club that like 48% of kids under 20 experience bullying on a monthly basis, which seemed like reasonable, maybe a lot. Then what surprised me is the number of adults that say that they get bullied, which is more like 30 to 39% based on two different studies.

That surprises you?

Yeah, I guess so. I can't imagine using the word bully Maybe, maybe that's it. Maybe, uh, to me there's some usage of the word bullying as an adult that feels like, uh, you're almost giving them power. Like, you can't, you can't bully me. You could be ugly, you could be rude, you could be inappropriate, but why would I label you? Because the way that I visualize a bully is like somebody big, kind of angry, stealing your lunch money, right? Like, I don't know, I'm too old for that now. Um, but, but then I saw how people reacted to your videos about adult bullying in the workplace. And it feels like a lot of people feel like they are bullied frequently. Have you found that?

I have. One would be, it's you and I probably do not live the same life that they do.

Not for sure.

Let's put it that way. We're entrepreneurs. We own our businesses. A lot of people do not. And they work for other companies and peoples and hospitals and schools and you name it. And they are part of that structure and that infrastructure that does not encourage, let's say, growth. They know that the job they got, maybe they work at a refinery, it's a job they're going to have for the rest of their life. Nothing wrong with it. But that's not to say that there are people that we can call bullies. They might not steal your lunch money, but they will steal your self-esteem if they can. There are people that you may not call a bully, but they'll certainly boss you around. There are people that they don't care about your feelings. It's not a punch to the face. It's a punch to the ego. It's a punch to your self-confidence. Confidence. People have no problem stealing that and taking that away from you from condescending behavior. And it's sometimes the people you're related to, especially the people you're related to, that makes it even harder. And so I think the biggest response from the bullying, which you— I agree, I think that's a fair question of, I thought we were kind of over this. I thought bullying was for, was for the kids. Is that we're all the same kids. We're just taller, look older, we got hair in weird places, or not, you know, or not, or not. Do you look great? That's the thing, we're the same exact people in high school. Rarely have they changed. There's some have in college, law school, wherever you went, everybody's mostly the, the same person.

And so, so, so really we shouldn't be surprised when there's bullying behavior in the workplace because we're all kind of just giant adult kids. And people are struggling with this every single day.

The world is one big high school. Yeah, one big high school. And it's from the haves and have-nots— who's the, the pretty get-ready-with-me-in-the-morning popular girls to the who— let's go get our gains and eat a dozen eggs while we work out our calves. You know, I don't know. So nobody wants to see either of those from me.

Yeah, you could maybe.

Yeah, you know, I'm working on it. Um, but yeah, it's, it's, it's It's not all the same spectrum, but there definitely is that segment of people who would say, yeah, in some way I am, I feel bullied, I'm pushed around, and I don't feel good about it. And I can tell you from the amount of people that have been so wonderful and so kind and have given the messages of, I have a bully at the workplace, I have a mother who pushes me around, I have a sister-in-law who I don't want to have to see. There's all kinds of, behaviors that are the unmet needs. And it's so funny, Cody, to see that when we get older, how much of that's resembled from our parents, how much resembles of that from the people that we were around that we didn't know when we were kids.

Yeah. You know, sometimes I think about, you know, have you ever met somebody who's just great at comebacks? Like, they're just like— sometimes I think, remember that show Entourage? Oh, yeah. I always liked Ari. Because people would say terrible things to him.

I think that was right when we were in—

I think we were probably similar ages.

Yeah, yeah, that was right in the middle of college, high school.

Fuck, I don't know.

I was probably older. How old are you? I'm 37.

Okay, 38.

I'm 36. Oh, dang, I forgot.

I thought only us women do that. You went older. See, us women, I still feel 36, but I'm 38.

I don't— I'm cool with getting old, so I never— I always think, um, I have to scale back.

Yeah.

That's what I typically have to do.

Well, I remember watching Entourage and how he would respond, and he would always have these amazing comebacks. And I was never that type of human. I think, like a lot of us, somebody says something really terrible to you, and you think in your mind, "I'm going to do all these things. I'm going to say it back." What you actually do instead is nothing. That's usually what I do. I just, like, in my head, I'm saying everything, and in person, I'm collapsing and not saying anything very cute or smart back. And so, I was wondering, when somebody comes at you with an insult, how do you do quote-unquote comebacks as an adult?

Hmm, you give it about 5 to 8 seconds of nothing.

I hate that.

They'll hate that. I know, I know it feels uncomfortable to you, but it is one of the most powerful moves you can make when somebody is insulting you, where you lose, is you send the zinger right back. So let's say You're at a 3 and they send you something that puts you at a 5. We have a choice. Do I rise to the level of it or do I keep it there? Because if you rise to the level of it, then you just justify them to go to a level 7. And it, it ratchets itself up to where really the person who speaks loses. They're the first up to apologize. That's all. Like there's this unspoken rule of who has to apologize first. In any relationship, or who's expected. And it's typically the person who spoke the last because they're determined to say the worst thing, because that's how they win. They have to say the mean thing. They have to throw it right back. So that's how they win the argument. But insults in particular are ones that when you give it 5 to 7 seconds of nothing, it just lets those words fall. A lot of the time, that's all it takes because they have to hear their own ugliness out loud. They were hoping that you would catch it, Cody. That's what they're hoping. They're hoping you're going to go boom, boom, and just send it right back to them. And then when they get hurt, they're going to go, oh, that hurt me. How dare you? Like, that's what they're wanting. So it allows them to play the victim, allows them to play that card. But when you just let it go, that's the biggest thing. You talked about it earlier of this. Whenever you can, it is a big power move when you can clue into somebody that what they say could not ever threaten you. It is such a move. Doesn't matter what you tell me. That's not a threat to me. You wanna raise your voice? That doesn't impress me. It doesn't impress me much. It doesn't matter, whatever it is. That they can't do anything with it. I don't care what you tell me, it's not going to threaten me, it's not going to make me rise up. And that's the person who's always controlled, and the other person will always look unreasonable.

Yeah, that is a real superpower. So, okay, so somebody says something ugly to you, you pause 3 to 5 to 7 seconds, something like that, and then what? What if they come back?

Cool. So when they insult you, number one, I want you to give it 5 to 7 seconds and nothing. Number two, you're going to ask a question of intent or outcome? What were you looking for when you said that to me? A lot of the times that does nothing for them. They're not going to do anything. They just will stammer over themselves. Number 3, it doesn't matter what they tell you or give you. Just walk away. That's that ending part we were talking about of just let it go. There's nothing that they can do with that anymore. They call you names. In hope that you will say something worse. That's generally what it is. But they say that for their own fight or flight. When they call you a name, it's because most of the time they're feeling something that they want to cause you pain. They want that to hurt. Same thing with somebody who's on the phone with you and they go, you know what, I'm out of here, click, or I can't, get me out of here, and they leave the room. That's their flight. It's the same thing. They say It's like picking up a— I don't know, picking up a pen and wanting to throw it at you. Instead of an object, I'm using my words. Same thing. I want the same exact result, same intent. If you enjoyed that clip and want to see the rest of the conversation, you can click right here. Or if you want to see the latest episode of the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, click right here, and I'll meet you there.