How to Respond to "You're So Busy" (And What to Ask Instead)

This show is powered by Others Over Self. Hit that subscribe button to keep training your brain. You're going through this with all the adrenaline flowing, and then when you get home, it's like just relief that the day went well, that it was not a recovery mission. It was a rescue mission. And that's what we really like is the rescue, not the recovery side of things.

From others over self, it's Hardcore and at Ease, a show about people who are keeping their edge without going over the edge. I'm host Shelly Rood. You're so busy. Ugh, I do not like this phrase. I'm sure you've heard it. It lands like an attack. You're so busy, like you can't manage your own schedule. Maybe you've said it too without even thinking twice, or you meant it as a compliment. Well, today we're rebelling against the phrase, you're so busy. Whether someone says it to you or you catch it coming out of your own mouth, you'll leave this episode knowing exactly what to say instead. This is Hardcore and At Ease. You've heard the phrase, you're so busy, from people who mean it kindly. And it still can land wrong because it treats the full life that you've built like something that's happening to you instead of something that you're choosing. So today we're going after that phrase. I want you to hear what a chosen life sounds like from the inside, and I wanna hand you a better question for the next time that those words are on the tip of your tongue. Of course, the phrase you're so busy applies to our guest today. I want you to picture a woman who spends her workdays as senior vice president of an employee-owned engineering and surveying firm. She's helping shape the roads, the water mains, working on projects that her community counts on. In the summers, she puts on a uniform and patrols Lake St. Clair as a marine safety officer with the sheriff's marine division. She serves as treasurer at her sportsman's club, and she runs the winter trap league. She shoots trap next to her grandson. And when she wants quiet, she heads to the Upper Peninsula in Michigan with her camera. Every piece of this life is something she chose, and most of it pours goodness right back out into the people around her. That's Catherine Dedecker. She came up through her company one role at a time, starting as the receptionist, and she learned a lot of it just by watching. You and I both know how it feels when someone looks at a full life, yours included, And decides from the outside that it must be out of control. That judgment stings. It's not fair because it questions the thing that you've worked hardest at, which is knowing how to run your own life. Before we go deeper into today's conversation, I do want to take a moment to honor one of my listeners. I know that she also hates this phrase, You're so busy. Last week I spoke at a summit, and right when I got there, Sabrina came up to me and said, Shelly, it's so good to see you again. She hugged me and said, I absolutely love hearing your voice. It's calming, and it makes me feel like a friend is right there with me when I start my day. Sabrina, this episode is for you today. You've got a busy life too, and I hope that you can see the blessing that that is. Sabrina reminds me that we are not alone in our quest to be hardcore and at ease. And now let's get into today's guest. Catherine DeDecker is Senior Vice President at Spaulding DeDecker. She also makes time to be a marine safety officer on Lake St. Clair. I want you to listen for how she makes time for herself inside of a full life, and listen closely because at one point I fall right into the phrase that we're talking about today. I call her out on being so busy, and she shows me the beautiful way to answer that accusation. Let's bring in Kathryn.

My last name is Dudecker, so that kind of tells you a little bit about my history. But as I was growing up, every Sunday when we would go home from Grandma's house, my dad would stop by some project or other that You know, just looked like a hole in the dirt for me, but it was something special for him. So I kind of got a taste of that growing up. And then in high school, I was able to work on a survey crew between my junior and senior year. So I was outside all summer. I was enjoying being outside, and it was just something that I thought I would really like to do. So that's kind of how I got into the surveying side of things. And I've done a lot of different things since then with the company. Started— actually started as a receptionist and then worked all through the different roles and different things that I got to do. And now I'm the senior vice president.

That is so amazing. And I have that in common with you because my father owned a construction company that my grandfather had started. And so I also grew up like my Sunday nights were at Home Depot because they had to stop in and get some supplies and I remember hours and hours of just waiting in Lowe's and Home Depot for my dad to finish something. So as a young girl in high school, you got to do surveying. What would your experience then look like compared to a high school female today who would pop on a job site and kind of do that same type of work?

Back when I was first on the job, I was the only female in the field. Which was typical. It's mostly a man's world in surveying and a little bit more, not as much in engineering as it was back then, but I would get to a job site and it would be all men in construction, all men in the survey field. But now if you look at a high school kid going into something like this, there's more females in the workplace. So they're not going to be the only ones on site. They're going to see other people who look like them, who are learning like they are and things like that. So it's not— I was never uncomfortable because that never bothered me. But as a young woman today, you may see yourself in a different role. And it's nice to see other women out there in the field doing the same things you are.

It is. And I'm sure that you have women in your company that work at all those different fields. Like, I know you've got women who are the surveyors, but they're also the project managers and they're also the engineers on site. Can you give us just a little bit of information about the scope of everything that falls under Spaulding Decker?

Spaulding Decker has 4 main categories that we work in. So we've got a survey department. The survey department is in the field before a project starts. So they're the ones out there mapping the land so that the engineers have a good basis or a good map so they can design projects. And then they're also— the surveyors are also in the field on the construction side, laying out the improvements that are going to be constructed by contractors. So they're in the field first before the job starts, and they're one of the last ones to leave when the job is done. So you get to see the whole project being built, which is really exciting because you see it designed and then you see it actually built. And then we've got a land development department. Most of their work is site work, so they work on a lot of K through 12. Higher ed, commercial, municipal projects. So they are designing everything that is 5 feet outside the building to the road. So they're working with grading, they're working with stormwater, parking lots. Parking lots are important. Pedestrian flow is really important for K-12, higher ed, and then the traffic, the impact of traffic, things like that. So that's land development. Our planning, engineering, and infrastructure group, most of their clients are municipalities, counties, municipalities, small groups, but they design infrastructure. So they're maintaining, they're improving, and they're designing new infrastructure. And that infrastructure you don't usually see. It's underground, it's water main, sanitary sewer, stormwater. And then it can be parking lots and roads and a lot of pedestrian pathway, a lot of safe streets for kids to get to school, things like that.

It is so interesting when we think about the infrastructure. I know we were at a meeting together where we heard the Michigan Department of Transportation give just a generalized quote that it costs somewhere from $3 to $4 million to do 1 mile of road. In our area. And that is a mind-boggling number, $3 to $4 million for 1 mile of road.

Yeah.

But then when you start getting into the infrastructure, you don't think about the underground wiring that's going to the stoplights that is feeding the automated cars and the triggers and all of that. Can you unpack that a little bit? Because I see it from that 30,000-foot level of just enough to be dangerous, but you're the expert. Sure.

So I'll just give a little blurb on each one. So water main is what is going to feed the water to your home. So it's drinkable water, and water main is going to be typically designed so it goes along roads and then it goes into subdivisions, and then you have leads to your homes.

Okay.

Sanitary sewer, that's everything, all the waste that is— that basically when you flush your toilet goes into the sanitary sewer. The dishwater that you use for washing dishes from anything that is going out your drain, that's going into a sanitary sewer. So that's carried away from your home. And then storm sewer is really important for flooding, for carrying water away from roadways so that the roads are safe, and for collecting that stormwater. Like if you're in a subdivision, you want to collect that water and let it settle into the ground as opposed to all going into the system at one time. And that's where you get flooding. So it's really important for stormwater and those. And then when you're talking about electrical, we don't do electrical, but that would be an electrical engineer or mechanical engineer doing some other things. But that's how you feed the traffic lights. That's how you feed the pedestrian traffic lights. And that's really important, obviously, for transportation, for traffic, keeping that safe flow. Moving.

And when your company's on site, as you just mentioned, you're not the only company on site. You have to work alongside the other complementary contractors that are taking part in these larger projects. Yeah.

So again, like on the surveyors, they're the ones mapping and then they're construct on the construction side of things. So they're laying out the improvements. So the contractor is using our stakes to place the improvements in the correct location. So you'll have contractors out there, you'll have general contractor out there, you might have a mechanical contractor, an electrical contractor. There's all different groups. So it's not just one contractor on site that might be relying on your stakes, but it could be a group of them.

Yeah. You really learn how to play nice with some of these high-energy individuals that run these other companies. So I interrupted you talking about infrastructure. What's the 4th pillar that Spaulding Decker runs?

They also have landscape architecture. And then a planning group as well. So the planning group is way in the front of a project talking about zoning and municipality codes and things like that of what you're allowed to build in certain zones and what you can do with that. And then the landscape architecture is placemaking, making places nice to visit. It's not just plants. It's really thinking about the whole project and how it all fits together. And it could be pedestrian pathways and things like that. And then the 4th pillar is construction engineering, which is really important. We— that group usually works for municipalities, and we're hired to observe the construction to make sure that the contractor is building the improvements per plan. So they're putting in the right materials, they're putting in the right— they're putting in the water main at the correct level below the ground so it doesn't freeze in Michigan. So things like that. And you look at the sanitary sewer, you want that to flow the correct way. You don't want anything collecting. You want it all to flow away from the homes, flow away from the buildings. And that's important to have the pipes sloping correctly. Well, so that's something we check out.

Like you just mentioned, those sloping, I mean, you have, you have to be spot on. You can't be a quarter of an inch off. Or the whole sidewalk is going to flood. And so there does have to be that extra layer of supervision and inspection to make sure that the people who are using tax dollars to have these projects done the right way are, in fact, doing them the right way. So that level of due diligence, I see that in your company, Katherine. And I kind of wonder how that plays out in your personal life as well because I feel like you have to be— genuine, add that layer of detail. You can't just make it up when you get to work and then go home and, right, like throw your stuff everywhere.

No, it's really— I think I go back to my dad and my mom. And I'm one of 9 children.

Oh my gosh, I didn't know that.

Yeah, so I'm the 8th of 9 children. So growing up, everybody had to work together. Everybody had to get along. Everybody had to live the way that my parents lived, which was very ethical. And, you know, it was really interesting because being the 8th of 9 children, it's— I was the quiet one because I was listening because I didn't have a chance to talk. So I observed a lot, I think, when I grew— when I was growing up. And I didn't realize that till later in life that, you know, you watch your brothers and sisters and that's how you learn. And they were— they all have interesting careers and they all grew up Everybody had a chance to work in the business, so they got a chance to see if they would want to be a surveyor, be an engineer. But yeah, it's really interesting. So when I come home, yeah, I'm no different at home than I am at work. It's, uh, everything is ethical. I mean, that's just the way I live my life. And I think that's the way that people see me is just, I'm going to tell it, put it this way, I'm going to tell it like it is. I don't pretend. I don't have time for that. And I don't have time for drama. So it is what it is. And what you see is what you get with me. Gosh.

And I feel like a family of 8 kids would be nothing but drama. So do you have other siblings that still work in the company? I'm not trying to, like, start a fight here, I promise.

Nope, nope. So 3 of us went into the company. We're all on the surveying side. So my brother John just retired at the end of December, and then my brother Mike is 8 years younger than me, so he has a few more years left. In the company, but he's a survey project manager and he does— he works with Midwest Steel, Ideal Group, Walbridge, Barton Malow. He does all of the difficult projects that are steel related. So when you're talking about building a building that might be 20 stories high, the steel has to be extremely accurate. And that's not something that every surveyor can do. It's a different mindset. You have to think 3-dimensionally. You have to think a couple hundred feet up in the air. So it all has to fit together like an erector set. And when I talk to people at Ideal Steel, they say, you're the only company we'll hire to do this because we know it's going to be done right. And so Mike heads up all of those projects, and John used to be the one who in the field doing those projects. So it's pretty exciting.

It is. And it's such a testimony to the level of work that you do because you don't walk away right out of college with that type of background, right, or that type of reputation in the community and with your clients to be able to— it's one thing to be first awarded a project. It's another thing to be awarded multiples and to have that history of proof of execution.

And when we look at the history of our clients, I would say 85% of our work is repeat clients. And that says something about our company. And that's every department. It's not just one or two departments, but it's really every department because I think all of our people put their heart and soul into their work. And we're an employee-owned firm. So that makes a difference as well because everybody who works for us is part owner in the company. So they have that, maybe that different level of pride in what they do because they can say, I own a piece of this, so I'm going to give a little bit extra. Or maybe that's just the people that we hire just have that mindset. Our employees are great, and it's exciting to see them work and see how things get built and contribute to the communities where we work.

It is. It's not just the communities that are local because, Catherine DeDecker, you have won some project awards that are contributing to Selfridge Air National Guard Base. There is $2.2 billion coming into Selfridge. for some infrastructure projects, and I heard that you got a little bit of that awarded. Give us a little bit more detail on what you're doing for Selfridge.

We are on several teams for the project. So the Tetra Tech team is on the non-airfield side of the rerouting of Rosso Road and Irwin Drain. On the non-airfield side, that's that project. So we did the survey. So we created the base maps for the engineers to design that change in the roadway, the change in the Irwin Drain, which is really important because that drain's kind of flat and that goes out to Lake St. Clair.

And what people may not understand is that to get to Selfridge, you have to go down a major highway, and then it gets to a roundabout, and then you can access the base. And the runway is like on either side of this major highway. And so part of this infrastructure is that we're actually going to reroute that highway so that the runway is not interrupted. Am I saying that properly?

Yes. So the runway has to shift north so that the south end is in a clear zone. So right now there are houses in that clear zone at the south end. So they're not extending the runway, but they're shifting it north so that the south end is now going to be a clear zone. And to shift it north, we have to shift a couple hundred feet north. And to do so, like you said, we have to reroute that road around that. I call it a loop-to-loop. It's not really a loop-to-loop, but that's what I call it. And along with that, you've got drains, you've got utilities, you've got the fencing, and then you have to have the security of the base that follows that fence line as well. And then we are also on the team on the airfield side, which is Mead and Hunt. They're the lead on that side doing the design work for the road, for the runway shift, if you will. So we're on those 2 teams and then we're on a couple other teams for the KC-46 and then the hangars down at the south end for the new KC-46 coming in and then the F-15EXs. So that's really exciting too.

That's right. So that's the reason why we need to have this infrastructure built out. We've got the KC-46s and the F-15EXs coming in as well. And with all of that, those planes don't fit in the existing hangars. So tell us a little bit more about that level of work that you're into.

So we're not on the architectural side, but we're on the survey side for all of the projects at the south end. So we are again drawing the maps so that the engineers and the architects can design the improvements for those new missions coming in to expand the hangars or do what they need to do to make sure that those fit and they're the size that they need to be for those particular planes is pretty exciting.

What I'm hearing, Kathryn, is that you're serving, you're continuing to serve. I mean, as would you say, the 8th child of 9, you found yourself serving. And here you are, even in your company doing surveying, which is a form of serving so that the mission can continue and these larger layers of infrastructure can be built. That's absolutely fascinating.

Yeah. And I enjoy what I do. It's really exciting. I think the most exciting thing for me is You go onto the site as a surveyor, you draw the map, the engineers design it, then you're back out there for construction. So you see the whole thing being built and you can see the result of what you've done along the pathway of that particular project. So if it's Selfridge, you're going to see that runway shift, you're going to see that road being built, and you may drive on that road. I live a mile north of Selfridge, so I see the planes fly over my house every day. So that's really exciting to me to be involved in a project that is in my community, in my neighborhood, but really serves the nation.

It is so interesting that you're coming from a place of serving, and we can't pour from an empty cup. Catherine, when I say to you, what makes you so hardcore, do you have an answer to that question? Not really.

I think, I guess being hardcore to me means You do what you say you're going to do no matter what or how difficult it is. And you were talking about, you know, my personal life and things like that and how I do things other than work. And I've got 2 kids and I've got 5 grandkids. But I think over the years, maybe the last 20 years, I found that, you know what, you need to find some time for yourself. And Whatever that looks to each person could be totally different. And I— what I really enjoy doing is helping others. So I serve on a couple different boards, and one of the boards I serve on is the Macomb County Sheriff Reserve Marine Division.

You could serve on any board, Kathryn. What are you doing on the Sheriff's Division board?

So I'm a marine safety officer. So in the summers mostly is when I serve on that particular group and we patrol Lake St. Clair. So I'm in uniform, I'm carrying a gun. I look just like a full-time person or full-time deputy or officer or whatever you want to call them. And it's giving back to the community. So it's making sure that people on the lake are safe. And if they're not, we're there to help. And I find it really, you know, it's a relaxing job most of the time until something has to happen and then you just have to go. And that's when the adrenaline hits in and you're just good to go. You're going to be there no matter what happens and what you need to do.

So, I mean, Lake St. Clair is a huge body of water and we, I mean, we're across from Canada. We have like drug deals and stuff that happen on the waters. Do you have any good stories you can tell me?

I don't have any good story, any of those good stories. The Border Patrol, and there may be some of our full-time deps who could tell you some stories about that, of, you know, they stopped some boats that were suspicious and called Border Patrol in and things like that. But I will tell you one, one story early on that doesn't have anything to do with Border Patrol, but it was a— I would call it a rescue. So we're heading back to the boathouse. We had, I think we had 4 people on 4 marine safety officers on board. And we see something floating in the distance. We think it's just a balloon because you see a lot of deflated balloons, helium balloons that were up in the air for graduation. Now they're on the lake. And we pick those up so people don't run over them. But as we get closer, we see it's, I think, 4 people on floats, just little blow-up rafts. My gosh, that are like, um, a mile out from shore. And what had happened was the mom and a daughter were near their dock, not too much, you know, they were a little bit south of Metro Beach. They were near their dock, they were just floating on, you know, little inflatables, and they must have fallen asleep and started drifting out.

That's my neighborhood. I live in the bay right next to this.

That could have been me. It could have been you. And then, uh, one of the other daughter says, where's mom? It's lunchtime or dinnertime or whatever time it was. And she goes out to the dock and sees her out a ways and calls to her and she's not answering. So she and her friend hop on another float and go out to get them. Well, they all get stuck out there because they can't get back in. And by the time we got to them, they were panicking. They were ready to— it was— they were scared. And so we got them in. And as one of our guys was grabbing the hand of One of the girls, she started to go under because she had she was panicking. So it was he grabbed her hand and pulled her, and this was one of our large our tall guys. He's like six foot seven, and he just pulled her and grabbed her up and brought her in. She was just so thankful and grateful, and she just started bawling because she was you know at that point she was safe, but she was she could react to what she was feeling. So that's the kind of thing that. is, I would say, rewarding that you're helping people like that.

How did you feel in that moment? I mean, you're right there next to him, and you're part of that rescue operation. How does it feel in the moment?

In the moment, it's— you're not thinking. You're just in that rescue mode of, what do I need to do to get them out of the water and get them out of the water as fast as possible? So you're not really thinking. It's more of a reaction. And You go back to some of your training, it's like, okay, you just do what you have to do to get them out of the water.

How did you feel when you got home that night?

Happy that we were able to get them in and we had to get them back to their house. And it was just— it— I guess I would say it's a little bit rewarding, but it's more— it feels that you're giving back to the community, that you're helping somebody. So you just get at the— you know, you're going through this with all the adrenaline flowing, and then when you get home, it's like, just relief that the day went well, that it was not a recovery mission. It was a rescue mission. And that's what we really like is the rescue, not the recovery side of things.

You just gave me chills with that. So you do this hardcore surveying and engineering work all day as the vice president for the company, and then you're out on the sheriff's boat doing rescue missions on your time off. Please tell me that somewhere in here, Katherine Dedecker has found a way to be at ease.

Yes, I like photography. So that's one of my hobbies. And I'd like to— and this goes back maybe 20 years now. Monte Nagler is a famous photographer, and he would offer some workshops, take people on a workshop and go, just go for a week and find some spots to take landscape photography. And it was out in the wilderness. It might be in the UP, it might be Anywhere in the country where he was going. And it's relaxing. And I was also learning something at the time. So it was really interesting to see his perspective on the photography side of things and learn from him. So if you look at my photography, it's— and I prefer the landscape photography over people just because you can do a lot of different things with it. And if you look at my photography, it's nowhere near as good as Monte, but I think his influence, you might be able to see his influence in my photography. So I like going on photography trips and it could be just me going by myself, or it could be with a workshop.

I've never done that. Tell me about a photography trip that you've taken that was your favorite.

I think the UP. So we went up to the UP. It was like going to the waterfalls. So we'd stop at Tahquamenon Falls, stop at Bond Falls. There's other— I mean, there's 199 waterfalls in the UP or in Michigan, and there's only one in the Lower Peninsula. But really it's— and part of it is the hiking side of it because some of the waterfalls might be a quarter mile in or a half a mile in or even farther than that. So it's the quiet time that you're walking to the falls and you're looking around in nature, and then you get to the falls and it's like, okay. What type of a picture do I want to— what picture would I frame for my wall? And that's the way I look at it. The different angles, the different flows. You can take time-lapse photography so you get that flowy movement in the waterfalls as opposed to just a snapshot of the falls, which, you know, that's what— that's mostly what people would take is just a, you know, click the button and you get a snapshot of the falls. You don't see the movement. So. I think the UP waterfalls was my— probably my favorite.

I took my family to Niagara Falls in the winter for a trip, and the pictures are hilarious because the kids are frozen, right? They're just little popsicles. But I was 100% captivated by the way that the landscape changed in the winter versus in the summer, and how you can have just reeds of grass, but they're encapsulated by frozen water. Changes so much. And I was able to even just take a pause when you're there out in nature and feeling the power of creation around you. Is that what it feels like to you when you go out on these photography trips?

Yeah, I think so. I mean, you can see, especially like Taquamenon Falls, that's a lot of water flowing, or Bond Falls. That's— you can, you feel the crashing of the water. So it's really interesting. And you wonder how these falls were formed and look at the history of things. It's a little bit different. So it's not just a little trickly flow of water, but it's— you can— the bigger falls, you really see what nature is doing and maybe how it's contributing to electrical grid and things like that, which is the natural side of it. But it's—

There it is. As soon as you said that, I saw your eyes light up and I was like, there's the VP, Katherine. So when you're at ease, photography, but I know there's another hobby that you have. Talk to me about your shooting sports hobby.

Ah, yes. So I got my grandson Calvin into shooting trap about 6 years ago, and he shoots for the high school team, and I would shoot with him occasionally, but not often enough to get very good at it. But I belong to Huron Pointe Sportsmen's Club, and I'm on that board as well, and I serve as the treasurer, and I run the winter trap league. So I kind of got involved just by doing things like, first of all, just watching Calvin. And they do have sporting clays events in the business world now, which is so exciting. It's much more common now than it was even 5 years ago.

That is exciting because I am a little bit of a golfer, but I would so much rather go do a round of skeet than a round of golf.

And, you know, you can shoot sporting clays even if you've never picked up a shotgun before. So you can train, you can teach someone how to do it pretty quickly. And the first time they hit that clay, you can just see how excited they are that they did it. And it's just so much fun. Just watching other people do it and succeed at it. And so now I shoot ATA with Calvin, and that's just trap. I don't shoot sporting clays competitively, but I'm now starting to compete with Calvin at some of these events. So that's a lot of fun.

That is fun. So that's you and your grandson competing together in a hobby?

Yes.

Oh, Katherine, that's wonderful.

And I rarely ever beat him, but that's okay.

But you do beat him sometimes, don't you?

I have a couple of times, but not very often. He'll shoot a 95 out of 100, and I'll shoot 85 out of 100.

There you go. I have this sense of almost like Where's Waldo, but it's Where's Catherine? And you don't know. She could be out surveying land for a new building going up. No, she's out on the water in Lake St. Clair rescuing somebody. No, she's out on the skeet field. Oh my gosh, Catherine, there's so much adventure in your life. You give me so much hope.

I'm not a person who sits still. It's just not in my nature.

And you are married. So tell me about that. Again, I don't wanna start any fights today, you know, but as a woman, we want to have these hobbies. We want to feel fulfilled, and sometimes we want our spouses or partners with us, and sometimes that doesn't work out. Can you give, you know, mentor me here a little bit and give me some wisdom on how do you know What's appropriate to do, when to bring somebody along? Is that okay? Should you feel disappointed if your partner in life isn't your partner in your hobby?

Oh no. So my husband and I have been married for 26 years and we are very supportive of each other. He runs his own business. I'm entrenched in my business. So we totally understand how busy people can be in business. And then finding time for yourselves. I think we support each other in the ways that Jeff goes to Michigan State on the weekend to do something. He goes down to Florida to check on his dad's place. He goes— we do different things and we support each other in doing that. And then if we want to do things together and it doesn't work out, it's okay. It's not a big deal. We had a big trip planned. I'll tell this story. So we had a big trip planned to St. Lucia with several of my friends. So it was Jeff and I— Jeff is my husband— another couple, and then 2 other people. And these are friends from my MSOs, which is the Marine Safety Officers at the sheriff department. And we were going down to St. Lucia this past February. And Jeff had a project in Florida that was not going as planned. And he kind of warned me like 2 weeks ahead of time, I may not be able to go on the trip. And he ended up not being able to go on the trip because of the construction wasn't going the way it was supposed to. And because I was going with friends, he said, I really still want you to go. So I went, I enjoyed myself. And now I said, we have to do redo next year. You have to come. So we're going back and he's going to get the redo. Well, I get the redo. He gets to do it the first time.

But, uh, well, that's perfect. You just found out how to make it even better than just a one-time trip.

Yeah. So I get to go twice. But, you know, if we used to golf together and we used to do— he likes photography. I like photography. So if I go on a weekend somewhere, if he would like to come, that's awesome because he takes— he's different. He has different perspective photos than I do. And so we get to share those and we get to see the diff— the same thing through different eyes. And that's exciting. You have to find time to spend together, but at the same time, you both need the time to do what you need to do to relax. And if that relaxation isn't what you both want to do, it's okay.

It is okay. That gives me so much hope for the women who maybe feel trapped in their relationships. With the rise of anxiety and depression amongst just people in general, I know what it's like to be connected to a partner where they are hesitant or not willing to maybe go out and meet new people or try a hobby, but it doesn't have to hold you back. Even if you're the caregiver, I'm just speaking to my listener that I know hears this in their heart right now. Even if you are the caregiver, you can still go out there and do wonderful things for yourself and feed your soul and be at ease.

Mm-hmm.

So that you have that extra layer of energy and oomph to be able to go on a rescue mission, maybe. Right? Do amazing things. You get amazing friends and then you'll find yourself in St. Lucia.

Right.

Yeah.

You can't hold yourself back. And on the other side of things, you can't hold your partner back either. If they want to do some things that you're not interested in, it's okay because we all need to have that something that really regenerates us. And it doesn't have to be family. It doesn't have to be something that everybody else does and that works for them because not every— everybody's different. And the things that reenergize us, it works on an individual basis.

It absolutely does. I know my husband's a big fan of video games as his regeneration. I don't get it. I never will. But you know, if he needs to sit there for 30 minutes On a video game, more power to him.

Whatever works for him. That's great.

Catherine Dedecker, is there anything else that you wish to share with our listener today as we wrap up?

I appreciate you having me on your podcast. This is very exciting because this is my first time ever on a podcast. So it was, and I do enjoy listening to your podcasts. It's, your guests are just absolutely amazing and the stories they have to tell and the wisdom that they have and the knowledge that they share. Uh, you won't get that other places. So I really appreciate you having me here.

Katherine, I'm honored to now name you as one of those guests with amazing stories. From rescue missions to St. Lucia to surveying out on the field, Katherine de Decker, thank you so much for being the wonderful woman that you are.

Thank you, Shelly.

Oh, as I reflect on that conversation with you, I have to tell you something just between us. Right in the middle of that conversation, I said to her, please tell me that somewhere in here, Catherine Dedecker has found a way to be at ease. And a few minutes later, I called her life Where's Waldo? Except, you know, Waldo was Catherine. Where's Catherine? I said both of these things with so much love, and I still did the exact same thing that I can't stand. I alluded to that phrase, you're so busy. I looked at a woman who plans her own life on purpose, and I told her that she was too busy. I don't like this because I know how it feels when someone says that to me, and my immediate response is, I planned it that way. So when I did this to Katherine, she took it in stride like the professional she is. She skipped right over trying to explain it, and she never apologized for being too busy. She just told me how she makes time for herself. And she said it like it was the most natural thing in the world, because for her it is. She does make time for herself. Here's what I want you to hear from her. Her calendar is full because she filled it. And the time she takes to recharge, it lives right inside that full calendar. She's not waiting on some quiet season. And she also said something that I keep replaying. She said, what recharges you works on an individual basis. Your way to recharge doesn't have to look like mine or your best friend's or anyone else's. And I really hope that you caught this part of that conversation when she said she won't hold herself back waiting for someone else to come along. That's being true to yourself. And she also won't hold them back from doing the things that recharge them either. Catherine gets to decide where her capabilities go. And so do you. So let's do this work together this week. I want you to grab your planner and look for 2 things. First, I want you to find the time to recharge. What do you do to recharge? And make sure that it is on your calendar, already built in. Put your finger on it, say it out loud. Don't cancel it and claim that you're going to do that. You're going to be there. And the second thing I want you to do is find the plan that you have been putting off until someone else could come with you. Maybe it's hitting the gym and your gym buddy keeps canceling or rescheduling. Whatever it is, I want you to put it in your planner anyway because you want to do the thing, and that is not dependent on another person. So the next time somebody tells you you're so busy, you can just Smile and you can claim it without the guilt? Your answer is 2 words: on purpose. And if you're the one who's been saying the phrase, you're so busy, I get it. Listen, I did it right here in my interview with Kathryn. I want you to ask something else instead. Instead of making the observation, you're so busy, ask a question. What's the goodness right now? What's the goodness right now? You're at a networking event and somebody's blabbing their mouth off. Instead of saying, oh, you're so busy, look at them and say, hmm, what's the goodness in your life right now? You see, when you ask someone about being busy, you're inviting them to walk through everything that's weighing on them, and you don't want to hear that. Who wants to hear other people complaining about their schedule? When you ask about the goodness, you're inviting them to tell you what's feeding their joy and what they're involved in that's pouring goodness into the world. Let's talk about that instead. When you do that, you'll hear, you're so busy, and it won't sting the way that it used to because you'll know exactly what you built and where you are recharging inside of it. Who comes to mind when you hear the phrase, you're so busy? I want you to send them this episode. Because that friend deserves to hear Kathryn's answer also. Life does not move in a straight line. You navigate it. You don't win it. And with every move, you're the one holding the pen. You're authoring each experience as it comes. My friend, you have lived authority, and it's already yours. That's a wrap for today. I'm host Shelly Rood. Thank you so much for spending your time with me today. Congratulations, you made it to the end of another episode. Next Tuesday, we're going to keep navigating this terrain together. Until then, stay hardcore, be at ease, and trust the process.

You're listening to Hardcore and At Ease. Keep the conversation going at join.othersoverself.com.