How to Work with an Investor Friendly Realtor + Tips On How to Make Winning Offers in a Competiti...

Hey, welcome to the Brick and Bloom podcast. Follow along as co-hosts Shona and Pasha document their real estate investment journey, providing transparent and honest views of the process with a healthy dose of inspiration and candor. Let them unpack and demystify the different pieces of investment strategies through expert interviews. Whether it's flipping, multifamily, long-term, short-term, or vacation rentals, their goal is to educate and inspire others. To financial freedom and wisdom. Hello and welcome to the Brick and Bloom podcast. This is Shonin. I'm here with my co-host Pasha, and we're just super excited to share our journey. We've gotten really great feedback, so we appreciate everyone tuning in, and this has been fun. So today we have a really special guest. We have Beth Benner today, and she is the co-founder of Bridge to Portland Group, a top team at Living Room Realty. She was also Living Room Realty's top individual producer in 2020. Beth is a licensed broker Oregon and Washington. She's a Portland native with a deep market knowledge and knowledge— 17 years experience. Sorry about that. Beth's specialties include neighborhood insight, investor relationships, downsizers, first-time homebuyers, and luxury properties. Beth and her husband Mike have 3 busy children and volunteer in the kindergarten class and on the T-ball field. So Beth is very busy. So Beth, thank you so much for taking the time. We like super appreciate it. We love working with you. We thought we'd start off with just kind of tell us about your background and your connection to real estate and how you got into it.

Yeah, thanks for having me, ladies. It's been a really fun partnership so far and lots of excitement to come. So like you said, Shona, I got my license in Oregon in 2004. A couple years after that, I got my license in Washington. At that time, people, my buyers were sort of being priced out of the Portland market, so it sort of made sense. And now with the different tax strategies that people would like to look on the Washington side, The bulk of my business is in Oregon. I love it. My business is all repeat and referral. And this, in the last about 10 years, I've started working a lot more with investors, which has led me to you guys. I love it.

Well, that's a good segue, Beth. So as investors, we're always curious, what is the best way to partner with someone like you, an agent?

Yeah, I think that the investor-realtor relationship is really important. I think that from the realtor standpoint, It's fun. It's kind of different for me to work with somebody who's looking at the numbers and looking at logically. And then we get to talk about some design things as well. And from the investor standpoint, you have to— I think it is crucial for you guys to partner with somebody who is actively selling real estate, who is actively listing homes, selling homes, representing buyers, has a good handle of what's going on in the market. I think it's important to know what different neighborhoods are going to command, what buyers are looking for in different areas so that you can really strategize on what product you're going to put out to the market and how well that's going to go.

That totally makes sense. And that's definitely our experience working with you. You've added so much value and I think with your market knowledge that I know we wouldn't be able to have that depth of knowledge ourselves. But as we talk about you being our buyer's agent, and what do you see is different with working with an investor versus a conventional buyer? Let's say as an investor, we're looking more distressed properties. So what is the best way to acquire these properties and how do we position ourselves in this field of conventional buyers?

Yeah, you know, I think that once a house hits the MLS in our market, there's so much competition. So although we've had some luck going that route to acquire properties, oftentimes it's these off-market deals, these off-market opportunities, which I know you guys are hitting it pretty hard with direct marketing from a wholesaler. So sometimes we'll have pocket listings, either mine or my company. But really what we have to do is show your value with the cash as a cash buyer or a hard money buyer to say, hey, we have the flexibility to let you stay in your house a little bit longer. We have the flexibility to close quickly. We can do— I mean, sometimes sellers don't even know about tax implications about selling their properties and maybe seller carried financing is a good option for them. And that sort of that knowledge, that expertise and experience that we we can bring to the table to help make these transactions as painless and smooth for sellers. That's what we really have to convey, whether it's directly to a seller or to the listing agent on the other side.

Yeah, that's really crucial. And I know we have won some offers based on being more competitive with our levers. So speak to that a little bit more of what levers can really win the offer beyond price.

Yeah, price. Sellers always think price is the most important thing, and it is, but the other terms can matter. If a seller has been in their home for 50 years and has 50 years of stuff in there, we can buy that property, you can buy that property with all the stuff and take care of it after. They haven't, you know, there's deferred maintenance, they haven't done any repairs. That's okay. That's not going to scare us away. So knowing that the sellers can just walk away is a really, can really strengthen your offer. So there's price, there's terms, there's flexibility in closing. There's cash up front, you know, we don't have to worry about any financing contingencies. And then we also have, you know, I also have a couple other strategies up my sleeve that we can use that maybe we won't put out to the world, but we can have success with when we're— if we're in a competing offer situation. Sorry about that.

That's super valuable. And I think, you know, You're right. A lot of times as an investor, we think, oh my gosh, the market's so hot. How do we even compete with all these other conventional buyers? But we can close fast. Basically, our financing is equivalent to cash. And we're not going to go in asking for a bunch of repairs at all. So we will do an inspection period and be very cognizant of what the repairs are, but we definitely don't— Yeah, you've helped us negotiate a lot of that.

It's like, hey, we'll make this super easy for you to walk away. So that's right. That's right.

And we know a lot of them, you know, we were speaking a lot about the transaction itself. But as, as investors, we're always on the hunt and always need to analyze our deals and make the best decision in terms of where the margins are on a certain house. We have relied a lot on you, Beth, for giving us what the market value is for a home. So we call that after repair value, ARV. We want, you know, in terms of partnership, we rely on that. So can you speak a little bit about, is it okay to ask your realtor for these comps and for what an ARV is?

Absolutely. I think you have to ask your realtor if, I mean, if your realtor doesn't know that information. Well, your realtor should know that information. Absolutely. I mean, I am in the industry, I am in the market, all day, every day looking at houses, seeing what things come on the market for, seeing what things sell for. And the three of us have talked about this, right, that, that every house that I run an ARV for, you may not get under contract, we may not close on, but this, this is a partnership. And this is the long game that, that I know that a lot of work upfront will pay off in the end for all of us. I mean, we— you have to rely on somebody who should know, you know, price per square foot in a certain neighborhood. Is adding a bathroom valuable here? Yes, that's very important. And there really is nobody better than your realtor to tell you that information and get that to you.

Yeah, no, I totally agree. And, you know, just in full transparency, we do use PropStream, like I'm sure a lot of listeners are familiar with on this podcast. But I find just vetting it with Beth, I mean, she's looking at things again, that in-depth knowledge and the insight that she brings versus what you just see, you know, on PropStream, there's just so much more color behind it versus just the number and I'm personally, you know, missing the MLS data on PropStream. So just validating that with Beth is just, it's put us in a more strategic position and honestly has given us the ability to walk away from some projects that would have been profitable. So thank you for that.

Well, sure. And, you know, I think that that's a great, a great starting point, just like price per square foot is a great starting point. But for example, Shona and I were looking at one house recently that she was looking at as a 2-bedroom, 1-bathroom, I had conflicting information. So it's really important to know, like, are we talking about a 4-bedroom or a 2-bedroom house? Because that's significantly going to change our ARV.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

I'm also curious, I feel like kind of we were on ARV. And I love that you're kind of on the conservative side of it. Because I feel like that's always— you're kind of running everything against that. And I'd also— I mean, if you could just speak to kind of your parameters, like, I think we were to call— understand was like, you go back 6 months, I think you're you're kind of sticking to 3 months and like, is it a half mile away? Just some of those more in the weeds things, just, you know, because I think it's a great question. So important to know that.

Those are super great questions. So we know that appraisers go— will go back as far as 6 months and will go use a 1 to 2 mile radius if they have to. But really, I mean, for example, if we're looking in North Portland, there's a difference between Arbor Lodge and Kenton and St. John's, right? Like each of those little pocket neighborhoods will command a different a different value. So I, I don't like to go super far geographically. And I think our market is so rapidly changing, especially as we come out of winter into spring, that 6 months ago, those values are meaningless to me. I think that most of them were a little bit lower, as they generally seasonally are. So if we can stick within a 3-month period— and right now we have enough sales, we have enough comps that we don't have to go back as far as 6 months or a year unless we're trying to comp out a really, really unique specific property. Also, I do like to be conservative. I mean, this is, this is your investment. I would love to give a pie-in-the-sky number and say, hey, let's make $1 million. And if we go above my conservative ARV, that's a huge win. I know we have to get it really honed in on the front end. So you know how much you can make an offer to a seller for and run your numbers off of. But I, because I'm protecting your— I feel like I'm protecting your investment. I have to err on the side of conservative.

Yeah, it's only upside from there.

Right.

Yeah, that's the gravy. And just that kind of another question related to that is kind of when the appraiser comes, I know they're kind of supposed to be neutral, but do you provide them with some comps and feed them with some data? Where is that like?

Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's another value your realtor will bring to the table. You know, we can, we can cherry-pick the comps that we want to hand to the appraiser. Of course, they're going to do their own due diligence. But if we can meet the appraiser, show them the comps we use to come up with this price, and provide them with the list of updates and upgrades that have been done to show why we're better than the one next door and add value that way, that only gives a better chance of that appraisal meeting our contract price.

And I love too that you also advise us to keep the staging because at the end of the day, first impressions, you know, the staging and made the house just look so much more beautiful. So that's exactly right.

And I know we're gonna touch on staging later, but I know, and we all three of us are firm believers in staging.

I love our staging.

I feel like the house comes to life when it's staged. It's just so beautiful.

Absolutely. And then you're just looking at, you can envision yourself living there. You believe it. It all of a sudden becomes your dream.

Yeah, absolutely. That's just such an enjoyment to see the house, staged with such beautiful furniture. It's like realizing your vision for it.

It's like the, just the bow on top.

Yeah, absolutely.

Perfect. So, um, Beth, we're just kind of gonna switch a little bit over to kind of the seller's perspective. So I have a, I feel like this, this comes up a lot for me. It's, it's clearly a seller's market, right? Sellers have this, you know, perception that, you know, anything will sell no matter what condition it's in. And I often try to explain that like, yes, it is a seller's market and houses are going for a lot, but that's in kind of market-ready condition. They've been modernized and upgraded and have all the things that people want. So I'm just curious if you ever get listings that, you know, how you coach your sellers to kind of optimize for market value or explain that, hey, yes, your neighbor sold their house for X amount, but your house is, you know, is kind of needs some more maintenance. So I'm just curious how you approach that with, you know, being respectful of it's their house. It's a very personal thing.

Yeah, you know, and And that's, it's sort of a work in progress. Sellers will, you know, like you said, they, it's as good as or better than the neighbor's house and anything will sell. And sure, I mean, we can get an offer on anything. But for a conventional buyer coming into a house that needs a furnace or roof, a water heater, siding, windows, all those big ticket scary items. And they think, oh, I'll just bring my paintbrush and my flooring. But then you get to the inspection piece and all of that other, those big ticket items come up. That's when you realize, okay, this is not going to work for a conventional buyer and selling to an investor would be the best way. You know, I do think there are, there are very few reasons or very few times where going to the open market doesn't behoove a seller. But, but it's sort of like what we touched on before, if, if the seller just needs a quick, clean, easy transaction, that's when I would say Hey, let's bring this to my investor and see what they can offer you. Maybe it does pencil for you. Maybe that does make sense if you can just walk away from the whole thing. But that usually takes 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 conversations.

Yeah, I know.

And I think when we're talking to sellers directly, we're always like, hey, if you want that, you're going to get the most value. We want you to have whatever the best experience is. Like, you're going to get the most value with the realtor and listing it. And we always like to be really upfront, but that entails cleaning it up and making it market ready and fixing it. So I mean, do you—

I'm curious, people come through your home. Yeah, that's not always—

I mean, oftentimes they're not in the best shape.

So do you—

so if you have a seller that has a house that's pretty good, do you say like, hey, well, maybe— do you kind of coach them on like what to fix up to kind of get it market ready, so to speak? I'm just curious.

Definitely. Yeah, carpet and paint go such a long way. I mean, it just cleans it up, it freshens it up, it brightens it up, it maybe removes some odor if that's something going on. Yes, yes. And then staging. I mean, You know, not all sellers want to invest $10,000 or $15,000 into their— or can invest $10,000 or $15,000 into their house before putting it on the market. But to me, that's the quick and easy.

That makes sense. So I guess kind of that— this kind of is a good segue into, you know, there— I feel like there's certain things that add the most value to a house. If you, you know, if you upgrade your kitchen, that you're going to get the return on that. So, and this is kind of the— what do you think the best things are to focus on a house to kind of get the best return? If you're thinking about selling it or if you're going to flip a house? Like, what do you think those key things are?

Well, you're exactly right. Kitchen definitely gives the best ROI. And then bathrooms, especially a primary bathroom, is second, which is why, like, that's where we spend our time and you spend your money and we make these really fun tile choices, right? Like, those get to be your statement. So carpet and paint, kitchens and bathrooms, curb appeal, some cute front landscaping, of fun, you know, pop of a front door color, or what your guys' signature, your fun letter or address numbers. And then maybe taking— I would say taking away anything that's scary. An oil tank, a leaking roof. I mean, it sounds so obvious, but those can be really scary for buyers coming in. And right now, buyers are spending every penny they have to get into houses. So if there's something going on like that, they just get freaked out. So I would say first those aesthetic pretty things, but then probably any major component that is just going to be scary or a turnoff.

That makes a lot of sense. And I feel like before I was an investor, even putting up a gate felt very overwhelming. You don't want to deal with it and you don't know that these things actually— they just feel kind of intimidating, I think, like an oil tank. Right. When I first moved here, I'm like, what's a buried oil tank? I didn't I'm from California.

I know what that was. And many of these houses, anything pre-1950 very likely has an oil tank here in Portland.

That brings up a question. I feel like a lot of investors, like, we buy as is, right? And we don't ask sellers to make repairs. But I do feel like we should do our due diligence and we do kind of a walk and talk. But I think a lot of investors just buy as is and don't poke around as much as they maybe should, even for an investment, because there's things like that you maybe don't see. So what is your perspective on if you're buying as an investor, do you do a formal inspection or a walk and talk? Or curious what you think.

I like the idea of a walk and talk. That was new to me when I hooked up with you guys. So I like that idea. I also, I really believe in having a sewer scope done because those can get very complicated and very expensive in some of these older houses in Portland. If we're talking about, you know, a root intrusion or cast iron that is simply at the end of its life or a party line It's important to know that because you could be talking about a $10,000 repair, and that changes your profit structure immensely.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, party line. That was a new one that I came across.

Like, oh, it's not a party.

Sewer problems are no fun. Awesome. Well, this has been so fun. I guess one, just, you know, I'm— we're always like to ask, like, what advice for you would you have for kind of a new investor kind of getting started, like in this market or in general? What do you see successful investors doing? In their business?

Yeah, I would say two things. Build your team and have a process, right? So I think on your team, you have your investors, you have your hard money lenders, you have your contractor or contractors, you have your realtor, and you have your stagers. And all five of those people need to act as a team. And I mean, we all have a common goal, right? And every time a house sells, everybody wins. So, and then we can move on to the next one. So I think it's really important to make sure that your team jives and flows and is cohesive. And then, and then have a process. So, and that, and that process starts from how you are, how you are even approaching the house from the get-go. How are you getting these leads? What kind of numbers are you running? Do you just have— I mean, put a spreadsheet together. Hey, here's the sales price. Yep, it needs a roof. Yep, it's gonna need $10,000 in the kitchen. Floors are this, X amount. And then you have a number. And it's just, it's a pretty quick, streamlined process that you can say, here's what we can offer you, because here's what our ARV So I think once you have the system and the people, you should be set.

Yeah, I love that. Systems are good.

And also a work in progress.

Yeah, for sure.

On that note, I mean, you know, talking— going back to the ARVs, we look at 3 months, you know, back. We, you know, sometimes do run over timelines, right? Especially as new investors, you are planning something to be 3 months, and 6 months, and then all of a sudden your ARVs are obsolete. What do you recommend in that, in that instance? Do you— how do you recalibrate when things have gone way off track? And you're now in a different— to your point, a different market?

Well, I think that looking at this snapshot of time, going over hasn't been the worst. It's been okay, because the market has gotten better. But that's part of the reason why I like to be on the conservative end, because I said, I don't know. I just— we just don't know what the future holds, right? We like to think that the market's going to keep going up, up, up, and I think it will. Um, but that sort of leads me into talking about the future of the market. I mean, in 2020, when things went crazy, I said to my sellers, listen, now's the time. You got to get your house on the market. This is not sustainable, this double-digit appreciation year over year. And then in 2021, I said, okay, now's the time, right? Now is your time. And then today I'm like, well, maybe now's your time. You know, what do I know? I, I think I think the difference is between 2022 and 2020 is the interest rates, right? So interest rates are going up. The Fed says they're going to go up 7 times this year. They've gone up like 3 or 4 times. I mean, they're almost at 5%, which for anybody who's bought a house in the last 6 years, that's unbelievable. For anybody who bought a house in the '80s, it's still really awesome. So historically, we're fine, but it does change buyer power. So I think that will cause a little bit of stabilization in our market. Market. But that doesn't, that doesn't take away our supply and demand issue. We simply don't have enough houses for all the people who want to buy them. And unless we see tens of thousands of houses hitting the market in every single month, that's not going to change anytime soon. So Portland's still a very desirable place to live. The suburbs of Portland are on fire. I mean, they're just so hot. So I think, I think we're going to be okay here.

Why do you think inventory is still so low? Still in this market, or is it also nationally?

Nationally and locally. And I think it's, it's twofold. Um, some people who own homes then have to become a buyer, and that's a kind of a scary thing as we see these multiple offer situations. And now with the rise of interest rates, I think we're going to see people staying in their homes to take advantage of their 2.75% interest rates and not want to buy something new at 5%. So I, I don't think— on one hand sellers are going to have to get a little bit more reasonable. So maybe more houses will turn over. But I think we're going to have less people moving. They're just going to add on to their existing homes. Yeah, yeah, prediction.

That's great. Again, it's not a— if we all had a crystal ball.

Yeah, well, if we all had a crystal ball, we would have bought all the houses in 2020.

Yeah, right. So we just want to pivot and talk a little bit more about you. I mean, Sean and I are really big on values and we connected because I think we do have similar values. Can you talk about what your values that you bring to you, uh, to your business and what drives you?

Yeah, definitely. So one of the reasons I joined up with Living Room Realty is we have a set of 9 core values, um, and, and we have chair people to sort of put these into action at our company, which is so awesome. But the ones that really speak to me, um, are balance, joy, integrity, and community. And I think community and homeownership go hand in hand. You know, there are so many studies about about people who own homes and neighborhoods and then turn inward, right? And it's cool for me, I get to see that at my kids' school, like all the moms and dads who walk around and then I see them in the classroom and see them after school. And it just feels so good to believe in something and be a part of something. So I think that those are probably, I mean, I love it, right? Like it's kind of cheesy, but I like get to help people accomplish the American dream and that feels really, really good. And I also really love most of my, uh, single buyers are women, and I just think that is so badass. I love it.

Well, we also love, um, working with a female realtor as well. So, and I can't, yeah, emphasize enough, I think your integrity comes through in everything you do.

So, and your passion. So I appreciate that.

Um, so who's a person who has influenced you the most?

You know, well, I Talking about women, it's not just one person. I have a series of women throughout my life that have been very inspiring. I'm starting with my mom, who, like, she was the community director growing up. So I think that's where that comes from for me. She was the volunteer coordinator and all the places. The first principal broker I worked for was a woman. She is still an active figure in my life. My business partner is a woman, and we have an all-woman team, which feels really good. And Living Room is a woman-owned real estate company. The first B Corp, the first real estate company to ever become a B Corp. There's just so many women, just, we think outside the box, right? Like we forge our way and I have loved partnering with you guys. I love to, and I know that that's where you guys met was at the Women's Investing Group. So I just, I think it is, we're empowering more women to become more successful. I love it.

Oh my gosh.

Oh my gosh.

Yes. Getting me all fired up, Beth. Oh my gosh. Well, tell us a little bit about what a podcast, a book, a business resource that you'd recommend to our listeners.

Yeah, I, I tune in once in a while to BiggerPockets. And every time I do, I definitely get one or two pieces of information, which is great. I also am a part of a forum at Living Room with the top producing teams. So it, that's a pretty cool opportunity to be surrounded by all sorts of greatness and learn all the different ways that everybody handles their business. And then not real estate related, I listen to The Daily every day. And it makes me feel like even though I'm so busy at work and so busy with my kids, I still have like a little bit of knowledge of what's going on in the world.

Yeah. Well, appreciate that. So Beth, we know you're very active on your social handles. So how can— we love that. And how can people find you and follow you?

Yes, that would be great. Uh, you at— on Instagram, I'm @bethbenner. Um, also my team at Bridge to Portland. Um, so we're a 4-person team at Living Room Realty. Sharon Blodek and I co-founded the team. Um, and we are having a shred event on April 23rd, um, which is right after Earth Day. It's at our office in Multnomah Village. So it'll be a fun community activity and come get a free cup of coffee. I love it. I love it.

Well, thanks, Beth. This has been super informative. We always appreciate talking with you and your insights. You've brought us so much value.

So thank you. This has been really fun.

Yeah, thanks for— thanks for your time today. It's been really fun to talk, and thanks everyone for tuning in. All right, till next time. Yeah, thanks. See ya.