Live Stream NOW: The Ultimate Guide to Co-Hosting for Mid-Term & STR Rentals!

Hey everyone, this is Shona from She's Got Assets. I have a really special guest on, Brandon Turner. We're going to push a few buttons here, so just bear with us. As usual, let us know where you're calling in from, if you can see us, that would be awesome.

And I know she said Brandon Turner, but I'm not related to that Brandon.

Oh, I'm sorry. Brandon Hendrick? I don't know where I'm— I'm really like multitasking.

Yeah, you've been hanging out on BiggerPockets too much. Different brands, but almost as awesome.

Right? Yeah, that's a good association. All right, well, I'm going to assume everyone can see us, but thanks for joining us. Again, I'm Shona, the founder of She's Got Assets. I help students, you know, set up and run their midterm rentals. I just got into co-hosting. Brandon is in Portland, Oregon. We exchange like horror stories about being a landlord and we're like, it's always fun. He's a fun person to chat with. So Brandon, yeah, just give a little intro about yourself.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, so, uh, my name is Brandon Hendrick. Um, so I have some long-term rentals myself, so I am a long-term landlord personally. Uh, and I just recently— and I say recently, about in the last 6 months— I've been working with fellow investors, um, co-hosting their properties for them. So basically what we're here to talk about for short-term rentals And I know Shona obviously knows a lot about midterm rentals, so hopefully we can answer some questions for you guys. But when it comes down to it, there's a lot, there's a lot involved with co-hosting. And it's, yeah, it's anything from trash to hot tubs to guests to calling. In fact, I told you yesterday I was calling Clackamas County Code Enforcement to figure out a solution to a trash issue that a neighbor's having with one of our short-term rentals. So it, uh, it runs the gamut. But yeah, I own properties myself. I'm an investor. I actually spent most of today working at a flip that I'm working on, so I'm also doing a flip as well. So doing a lot. And, uh, I've done multiple virtual tours for Shona's Midterm Rentals. So if you're here in the Portland, Oregon area and you need a 3D virtual tour for a property you're listing or or hosting as a short-term or midterm rental, I can help you out with that as well. I think Shona would agree that you kind of need to have your hands in a lot of different things. Real estate is— there's a lot of ways to be profitable, and I like to be well-versed in a lot of them.

Yes. Yeah. What many hats, right? Yeah. You got to be really— you got to be a good operator too, right? It's so important. You can't— I don't think you can dabble anymore. The bar has gone up with short-term things happening. People are getting into midterm. Even short-terms, I think, are getting a lot more competitive. You really just need to know your stuff. So that being said, thank you, Brandon. Yeah, for anyone that's local, Brandon's my go-to virtual tour guy. I always like to have professional photos. Everyone's heard me say that like 5 million times. I can't say it enough, right, Brandon?

So important. So, so important. Yeah, it's— I, I mean, I, I even as a long-term landlord, I see other other operators, right? Other landlords on Zillow with, with just the cell phone pictures. It just— it doesn't— don't do that anymore. That doesn't work. You're, you're immediately outclassed if you're not paying a professional photographer.

And it's just, it's painful. People are scrolling, and if you don't stop that, like, yeah, it's shocking, the stuff. Or leaving clutter out and not just— yeah, so really important. So have that hands down super important. I've been doing professional videos. I think they're really important. Virtual tours. And oftentimes people book sight unseen depending on your avatar, right? Well, for short-term, no one ever sees it, right? But for midterm, so it's really, really, really important. Don't skimp on that. But tonight we're going to chat about— there's a lot of hats, right? And I think that midterm, short-term, there's different levels of work and there's this Co-hosting is something if you just want to have this great rental but don't want to be really hands-on with it, co-hosting is a great option. So we're going to really unpack that pros and cons. So I'm going to start with just kind of explaining how co-hosting— there's a lot of ways to interpret it, Brandon. We can jump in and talk about STR, MTR, but essentially a co-host comes from the short-term rental side of things. Like when I first got started in STR, I found a co-host in Airbnb. It was not very common and it was amazing. They took care of cleaning and all that. It's coming over to Midterm that basically that we're kind of helping you run the property. We are not property managers. Very important. We're not property managers. We help you advertise it, do guest communications, turnover. We draft leases that are like, you know, highly localized to your county and state. A lot of people don't do that. It's my big pet peeve. So that's kind of what we do. We're on the sidelines. We do charge a premium for that because it's more work, right? But the benefits are you get to get this great, you know, property going. You're not dealing with day to day, especially in short term. The midterm, you know, but I— there's a lot of nuance to putting your site out there. If you throw it up on one site and you don't get bookings, you're not— there's a lot of other things that go into like properly marketing that I teach or can do for you. So Brendan, with that being said, you want to talk about the short-term co-hosting funness that you do?

Yeah, so on a, on a day-to-day, um, I respond to guests right? Inquiries, bookings, making sure that they have the Wi-Fi password, making sure that they— a lot of the properties are that I co-host are a little bit more remote, a little bit more vacationy, on a, you know, on a river, on a lake, you know, a kind of a destination type location. So they're harder to find. So I've had guests say, hey, we're lost. So I've actually gone to each property and taking pictures of landmarks that I have saved in a Slack channel so I can, I can immediately just like copy paste and say, you're looking for this, you're looking for that, and then you can— this is the road. So, uh, very important, um, to make sure. And you need to respond quickly because these people— hey, I'm locked out of the house, hey, I don't have Wi-Fi, hey, I can't find the place— like, these are things that you need to solve quickly. Um, if not, you're gonna have a very a very bad, uh, experience with those, with those guests because they're not going to be happy. Um, I've already driven out twice on Sunday evenings to, uh, one time to take down a beeping smoke detector at 10 o'clock at night, and on a Sunday. Yeah, no, Sunday at 10 o'clock at night. Uh, they, they took a picture. They said we were standing on a chair and we're too short to reach it. And they took a picture of them reaching for the smoke detector. And, and, um, so I had to drive, uh, I had to drive about 45 minutes, uh, each way to go get a beeping smoke detector Sunday at 10 o'clock at night. And then just a couple Sundays ago, um, some guests pressed the code too many times and locked themselves out, so I had to go reset it and get them inside. And that was luckily only Sunday at 6 PM. So basically you're just constantly solving problems, uh, it doesn't matter day or night. Whether it's beeping smoke alarm, being locked out, being lost, asking— I can't tell you, I'd say probably once or twice a week we have people reaching out to us looking to host events and ceremonies, which is a big no-no in the STR world. You know, neighbors don't like that, noise complaints, excess trash, you know, professional or commercial photography. Like all of those things aren't meant for, for a residence. These, these are vacation homes. So I get those, uh, requests all the time. Uh, actually, just I think 24 hours ago, I had somebody say, we are a very respectful group of no more than 60 people. 6-0. They wanted, they wanted to host an event with at least 60 people. And if they say 60, it's probably closer to 75. Uh, so we had to politely, uh, decline that. Um, so, you know, you gotta respectfully and graciously— and, you know, hey, that sounds like an amazing event, you know, we hope you find a better venue, this just isn't it. Um, but yeah, there's a lot of communicating with guests, there's a lot of communicating with owners when it comes to maintenance needs. Um, every time we have a chance, I try to send in a contractor or handyman to work on these properties, which is really tough during the summertime. That's really busy. And when things, you know, like, hey, a ceiling fan's not working, did you check the batteries? You know, before we rip it out of the ceiling, you know, are the batteries good, right? So you got to problem solve things with guests, and, and sometimes you just have to send somebody over to put eyes on it. And I've done that multiple times. Yeah, what was it, Tuesday? Saturday. Saturday I made this really cool montage I shared it with Shona because she, she understands how, um, difficult co-hosting can be. One of our cleaners who we don't use anymore had been piling trash bags in a shed on site instead of taking the trash out where it was supposed to go to be picked up, um, because that's what I told her. I said put it in the shed where the trash cans were, and she'd been letting that pile up for 3 weeks. So Guess who had to go deal with that? Me. As much as I would have loved to hire a junk hauling or a trash company, I am the co-host. I, you know, I am in control of the cleaners. I'm in control of so many different things. And I really felt responsible for taking care of that. The owners were very gracious. They offered to pay me extra for my time. And I just told them like, hey, I, you know, had to rent a truck to handle that. So just cover that. But that's what I did on my Saturday morning. So it runs the gambit. Sometimes you can be on site, sometimes you can't. I don't know, Shona, I don't know if you've dealt with that, but definitely when it comes to vacation homes, people generate a lot of garbage. They have a lot of questions. They want to know how the grill works. They want to know how the hot tub works. I've heard it all.

Well, Brandon, all the reasons you just said so elegantly are the reasons why I'm— MTR has pretty much sold everyone on you.

Yeah.

But, but right, but there is, right there, it's higher profit, you know, right? There is this hybrid strategy for anyone listening. Maximize it, do short-term in the busy season and long-term, you know, MTR in the slower season. And for anyone just tuning in, we're talking about co-hosting and the, the, I mean, it's a little bit of a gray area. We are not property managers. We're kind of like consultants. We do not collect the money. Like Airbnb actually lets you tag someone as an actual co-host. Other platforms don't play as nicely, but we're basically consulting for you. Helping you with things. We are not property managers, right? We are technically co-hosts and that we do everything that a property manager kind of does without— we're not dealing with money. We are also the other very big differentiation, right? With short-term, not so much with midterm, right? If we're doing a direct booking, we're going to draft the lease for, for that homeowner. And that will be between the landlord and the guest. We are not as co-hosts on the lease. That's a very big difference too, just to call out. But, you know, I think Brandon called out a lot of things like You need to be a professional operator if you're an MTR or an STR. And you might— it's not— this is not for dabbling. So either learn it, take a course, figure it out, do that, or hire someone, right? Either way you can do it, but it's just not something you dabble in, especially short-term. Garbage is a major issue. Yeah, I would— yeah, yeah.

I would say if you come into a short-term rental situation thinking that you're just going to do it on your nights and weekends, I'll be expecting a call from you quickly because that's not at all— I get, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised even during this, this, during our stream here that I'll probably come back and have 2 or 3 questions from different people. Questions from the cleaners, updates on supplies. I mean, yeah, there's just, you know, a lot of things that go into it. You know, if you're a host that offers the, you know, the cleaning supplies to get a better deal on the cleaning, uh, you know, then you got to track that as well. So there's a lot of, a lot of things that go into it. I would not consider it dabbling at all unless you were like on-site and this was your like ADU, you know. Yeah. So yeah, I would say that's probably— that's probably— yeah, unless— so unless you're living on-site, um, I, I would say any— even if you're 20 minutes away be expected, you know, be ready. You're definitely gonna be going over there way more than you think you will.

But I just wanna say too, like, you don't need a co-host. You can totally self-manage, and there's tons of software and tools we're gonna cover, right? But it's just knowing what you're getting into and putting systems in place. Like, it's very doable, but it's just not something that you're not gonna have to put the effort in and get your systems down. So there's a couple questions I just wanna get to. Ashley's asking average MTR vacancy rate. I can speak to that. Like, I stay pretty booked. It is a little bit seasonal. You know, I would say if you're going to be really conservative and underwrite, go 20 to 25%. I don't think it's ever going to be that high. But when I'm underwriting or looking at something, I always want to be super sure. And there's like a lot of levers to pull, right? If you're in a place where you can do the hybrid, you can fill in your gaps with STR. In Portland, Oregon, we're not so friendly towards landlords, but that's a strategy. So, you know, conservative. I don't know, Brandon, with short-term, it probably varies, right, on the location and a lot of metrics. But what do you— is there an average that you see?

Yeah. I mean, right now, yeah, right now, I mean, it really depends on the property. It really depends on the location. Um, I would say during the summertime it's really travel intensive, so a lot of people are, are booking vacations. Um, so I would say it's, it's, it's pretty seasonal as well. Just, I mean, I think anybody here who's, who's been any type of landlord or, or property manager understands that trying to get a tenant or a guest in December is much more difficult than it is during any time during the summer. Right. So that holds true whether it's short-term, mid-term, or long-term. And yes, I have booked— I have had a tenant move in, I think January 1st. I've done that before and it's not fun. You kind of have to adjust your standards a little bit if you're having people book in on non-ideal times, whether it's for long-term, short-term, or mid-term. But I would think it just depends on the location, right? A big house, a big beautiful A-frame house on the river is definitely going to be doing a lot different numbers than a condo in downtown Vancouver. Totally.

Yeah. So it's— there's a lot of variables, right? But I think always just in general, there's a lot of tools out there like AirDNA, PriceLabs, right, that can give you that data to a certain extent. But just be conservative, right?

Okay, and always just look at your competition. Yeah, yeah, and always look at your competition. Just like, you know, coming from the, the long-term landlord, you know, when I try to set rents, um, and I think even with midterm, right, you look at your competition, you go to Furnished Finders, you go to Zillow, and you see, okay, what's around me that I'm competing with.

Totally. I always like to try high though when I go down, right? Because if you don't ask, you don't get. And sometimes you can test things out and you might get a little higher rent and then you adjust it, you know. But it's like, um, okay, yes.

Um, if it wasn't, if it wasn't, uh, I was about to say if dynamic pricing didn't exist, Shona would be the one to invent it.

Well, I interviewed the guy from dynamic, from, um, PriceLabs, and he comes from the airline industry, and that's, yes, that's how he kind of developed the software, which is interesting because they do that, right? It's based on demand. It makes total sense. I mean, it's a tool you can use in MTR. I think it's a lot more common in short-term rentals and Basically, it's just looking at the data and it's adjusting the prices. So it's a really great tool so that you're optimizing for the premium, right? And you're getting those bookings that lowers your price if there's no demand, right? Or less demand. So it's a very smart tool. Okay. Jess is asking, is there a co-host paid 5%? And yes, it is. Like, I think we charge— I charge 20%. I don't know, Brandon, what you charge. It's always a negotiation, but it's higher because it's more work, right? And we're really providing— we're in the hospitality business. It's very hands-on. That's why it's higher.

Yeah. Yeah. I would say from what I've seen from co-hosts, anywhere from 15% at the very minimum. And remember, you get what you pay for, right? So 15% all the way to 25%. I think even Vacasa out on the coast, the Oregon coast, they do it with a lot of vacation rentals. I think they even charge like 30%.

Yeah, definitely. And the higher you pay, the more they might take care of linens, like the services will be more. So it's definitely something that I mean, it Cuts in your profit, right? So if you're like, I even want to make all this, keep all your pennies, then self-manage, right? And there's tools and I teach students how to do that, especially with midterm. All right, Colton is asking, how do you determine if your property is a good candidate for MTR, STR? I'll speak to the MTR. You know, there's definitely a lot of places to check demand like Furnished Finder, Airbnb, long-term stays. I think if you're in any kind of urban area, like a 3/2 is great because it's going to appeal to a pretty wide audience, at least a 2/1. Right. If you want to do the hybrid, you know, then you're probably looking for bigger properties, more beds. Right. So it just depends on who you're marketing to. It's very nuanced, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I think that, that— yeah, I'd have to agree. I mean, it's hard, but I think, you know, I think properties where people have ADUs in their backyards are maybe struggling more than vacation destinations. I think there was a lot of pushback recently with all the extra cleaning fees and, and all the, you know, for short-term rentals at least. I was watching a lot of news, following a lot of this stuff where a lot of people were just, you know, upset at owners and, and managers and co-hosts of short-term rentals because they were just getting fee'd to death with all the, with all the fees. And people are just like, well, shoot, I might as well just go to a hotel. So it really depends. Um, I, I think You know, if you're looking for a property specifically to do short-term rentals, I would, I would personally advocate looking for a vacation destination type thing around water, around, you know, shopping, something, something that people come to do.

Totally. I think, again, it comes down to like location, location, location. If it's in a desirable area, if it's somewhat walkable, and with midterms, it does not need to be across the street from the hospital. I don't know how many times I need to say that it does not need to be across, I mean, it's, most of mine are not, as long as they're 20 minutes, and people, they want safety, they want, for me, like, let's talk amenities, right? The most common ones I get for traveling, okay, traveling that avatar, they want a fenced yard, pet-friendly, pet-friendly, you have got to be pet-friendly. There's strategies that I can teach you, but you are missing out on half your audience, so just pet-friendly, fenced yard, off-street parking, safe, you know, convenience, right? Those are the key metrics. And it's, it's more of like a home. It's not— you don't have to be luxury, but design matters. S-tier is, you know, hot tubs, right? Brendan, let us know what—

yeah, yeah, yeah. You do have to, you do have to put a little bit more into like the design, right? You have to, to create an experience for people, right? And you want to have the hot tubs and you want to have a hotel-like experience and a really nice house and a really nice location, right? Safety, Wi-Fi, hot tubs, um, you know, responsiveness. Yeah, so a lot of those things are important. Um, but yeah, I think with any real estate investment, whether it's a long-term, short-term, or midterm, uh, if you are buying a piece of real estate, location is the first thing that you think of. And depending on where that location is, then you can derive what strategy you'll use and what makes the most sense.

Totally. And there's— I mean, you can have multiple exits, right? I mean, there's so many. Yeah, you can do long-term, you can do midterm, you can do short, you can test it out. You're not sticking to one, but as long you know, you have options. And I always like, in my mind, ideally you can like live with a long-term, right? Like worst case, like you can like cover yourself. That's ideal. It's not always the case, right? But you just don't want to be underwater or dealing with high vacancy and just freaking out, right? Because that's a reality. Yeah. That's what we're in. Um, yeah. Okay. Um, and people keep asking questions, um, as we go along here. So I kind of, you know, there's different software, right? With midterm where I'm using Buildium, right? With short-term, you're definitely using like a channel manager help really manage. So Brandon, you want to speak to that, like the tools that you're using to kind of—

yeah, sure, of course. Um, yeah, so, uh, the investor that I first started working with was using Guestly. Um, we've had some pros and cons with that. Um, I think, uh, if we were to, to, to switch to something else, we might show, uh, choose, um, Hostaway. So I would look at, you know, those two if those are something you're looking for. And this is And this is only necessary if you have multiple properties, right? If you're just doing one of your properties and you only got one, you don't really need a channel manager. Um, but I co-host 7 different properties, so I really need to be looking at all the cleaning schedules. I need to be coordinating with the cleaners. I need to have easy access, right? I don't want to be running around between 3 different Airbnb accounts and 2 VR, uh, VRBO accounts. And, you know, you just need all of it in one space. Um, that's, that's mandatory if you're going to be managing multiple properties. So if you want to be a co-host yourself, uh, or if you already have a bunch of long-term rentals and want to try to, to, to, to do a couple of them, you might be able to get away with one or two. But eventually when you have them all spread out against, you know, different things— Furnished Finders, if you're doing Airbnb, you're doing VRBO, you're doing Booking.com, you have stuff on Zillow, right? It can get really complicated. So you want to make sure that you do all of those integrations. which is something that I had to learn. I am not a software engineer, but when I had to figure out all the integrations for the calendars and the, the automated messaging and, and all the different platforms, I, I almost wanted to call a software engineer because I was like, what do I do? Um, so it— yeah, it— yeah, so it can get difficult. But channel manager is really important if you're going to be, uh, you know, co-hosting or managing a lot of spaces. we obviously use, uh, in the short-term, uh, area, you have to use PriceLabs, uh, for dynamic pricing. Um, before, the, the, the owners were using Wheelhouse, um, which, you know, I, I've heard, you know, we, we had a little bit of success with it, but it was a lot easier to just use PriceLabs. Um, Shona says it's great, a lot of other people says it's great, and when we transitioned to that for all the properties, it was significantly more helpful once you got it set up. Again, a learning curve for sure, uh, but, uh, once you get everything set up, it's definitely worth it. Makes life a lot easier. Um, so that— and then we— I alluded to, we use a Slack channel as well to communicate with the owners, to communicate with cleaners, um, you know, just, just to put things down. It's really important. I have a video of how to work every single hot tub. I have a video of how to use the thermostats. I now know for certain that one of our properties has a can opener because I had one sent there because some guest, some guest was really upset that we didn't have a can opener. So I made that happen. I've had guests ask me what type of coffee machine we have, and I said, I don't know, but we have two. So choose the one you like the most. So yeah, there's so much, and especially being a co-host, right? Like, I haven't lived in any of these properties, so there's a lot to learn about each individual property. Um, even one of the guests said, hey, how do I turn on the outside lights? And I was like, with a light switch? What do you mean? So, um, so I had to— after that guest left, I went over to the property and I said, okay, I need to figure out what light switch turns on the outside string lights over the hot tub, right? Very magical setting, very nice with, you know, the river in the back. The background, and I found the light switch. I took a picture of it and I circled it, and now it's in Slack forever in case somebody else can't find the light switch to turn on the lights. So Slack is another good one just as a reminder for, for everything that you have to do that needs to be done. And I do also use Google Sheets. I know that's a little old school, but that's more for maintenance items. So as we need them, I kind of like add like, okay, here's maintenance things. I have it shared with the owners and say, what's your priority level for, for these things?

You know, the other thing that Google Sheets is amazing for is like what kind of batteries are in your smart lock, because they're all different and you can drive yourself bonkers. What— the batteries, right, Brandon? The batteries. So leave extras. And the other thing I track now is the size of your filters because they are all different and you can go over there and you don't have the right size filter. So That's kind of a maintenance thing. Yeah, track everything.

Yeah. Yep. HVAC filters. I mean, filters for the hot tubs, the different type of chemicals, the way that you do it. We have test strips, we have all the different type of cleaning products for the cleaners. I've had to order vacuums, I've had to order mops. I do have all of that stuff now on a master list. I worked with, uh, one of the owners because they plan on acquiring more properties, and I said, hey, we need to, we need to sit down and we need to have a system. We need to— what vacuum are we ordering? What towels are we ordering? What sponges are we ordering, right? So we, we now all have that set up. Uh, it's all about systematizing things. That will really, really save you a lot of time and headache.

It really is. I remember the first couple of furnishings, I just kind of winged it, and then I put together a very detailed list down to like, you know, soap and like the little things for cotton balls, right? And that's in the course because like that stuff is missing, it really affects the guest experience. And we are like in the hospitality business, MTR, STR, it's about experience, it's about good communications, going above and beyond, right? So if you don't want to deal, I mean, like we're all in this, I think for a lot of reasons, but it is, we are ultimately providing a great experience, whether it's a family that's displaced or someone on vacation, but those details, and thank God for like, you know, overnight delivery or all the other services we have, because a couple years ago, you'd have to hustle over to like a store and pick it up, right?

How many, how many, how many, how many mattresses have you had to move yourself, Shona?

Yeah, well, when I'm furnishing a place in 3 days, I will hustle, right? But yeah, if anyone can relate to this stuff, drop a comment because yeah, all these little things. Like, the thing is though, once it's set up, maybe you're restocking, you're not always doing this. But again, as Brandon's saying, Systems are great, spreadsheets are great. Find your tools. And as co-hosts, we help with that. You know, you don't need that, but it's especially with STR, like, unless you're going to have like an ADU in your backyard, it's— that's why I went to MTR because—

and the other thing is that Jonah's not a believer. She's, she's not a believer.

They're awesome, but it's all just more work, right? It's all of these things that I think personally, I think it's a little easier to self-manage an STR. MTR versus an MTR. I think it's just, it's not 100%, right?

So yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, long-term, mid-term, short-term, right? It's the, the less money it generates, the less hands-on you have to be, right? The more money you want, if that's your goal, the more money, more money that you want, the more involved you're gonna have to be in the asset.

Exactly. Yeah. But you know, on the flip side, right, I think the benefit of STR and MTR is that we get access to our properties. We're always doing maintenance, right? We don't have tenants for years, right? We're not locking ourselves into a lower rent price, you know, when it comes to loans and stuff, right? The more rent, the higher the value.

So yeah, yeah, no, hey, that's a very good— yeah, and, and that's one of my pitches when I, when I talk to tired landlords, um, is like, hey, I'm sure you're tired of ripping up your kitchen floor for the 7th time, um, how about we just have it cleaned 4 times a week. What do you think of that, right? Like, we get to do inspections 4 times a week, right? And, and I'm actually working with the cleaners that I, I have. I, I have cleaners working, you know, basically under me so I can send them out to wherever we need. I've— I'm basically trying to create a system for the cleaners where they take pictures and video before and after in case we have any claims that we need to make through Airbnb or VRBO. So that's another system that we're implementing. And another thing, you know, as a, as a co-host that I think is important to the owners, um, where, you know, we can, we can handle those things. We have photographic evidence. And I think it also, uh, it helps me ask for more money, um, when it comes to the cleaner saying, hey, I was here the whole time and I had to bring my cousin and nephew and sister over to get it done in time because we have 4 o'clock check-ins. We have 10 o'clock checkout or 10 AM checkouts and 4 PM check-ins. So that's all the time they have to get it ready for the next person. So if the, if the person before them left it in not great condition, sometimes you have to pay the cleaners a little more.

Yeah, that, I mean, that's all, it's always a bit of a, of like a range, right? Yeah, no, I usually do the same for MTRs. I'm always like 4 PM, even if there's a vacancy, I'm usually fussing over, over there. I want, I want to give myself that window. So even if it's empty, just say 4 o'clock. That's just like kind of pretty universal, I think, at this point, right? Um, yeah, I'm curious about quality control because I, you know, I have my cleaners, they know my style, but I'm usually in after them, like welcome gifts. I mean, I've done that, I do that with MTRs. I think it's nice. Are you doing that with STRs too? Bottle of wine, chocolate, or whatnot? Or how— what's your stance on that?

Yeah, that's a, that's a good question. So I, I have talked to that about, uh, the owners because that would be something that either, you know, my hosting company can provide, um, for, you know, an extra cost, or if they're interested in doing that to kind of create a more tailored guest experience. Right now, the investors I'm speaking with or working with are really cost-conscious, so we haven't really been doing that just because— can you imagine a bottle of wine, you know, every guest, 4 guests a week? I mean, that, that can actually really add up over time. So that's not something they're doing right now, but we have been talking about implementing kind of like a coffee stand type thing where we offer, you know, coffees and teas and different things like that. Kind of something that you'd see at kind of like a hotel lobby, but in each property. So, so yeah, we're working on that. And again, that's a part of the optimization, right? As the co-host, I kind of have to push the owners a little bit and say, hey, If you want better reviews, more reviews, if you want more bookings, if you want, you know, people to rave about your place, you have to go a little bit above and beyond what other people are doing.

100%. And I, when I think it kind of, it's an instant kind of like goodwill. Like if they check in and there's some, something there and something is amiss, it just buys you a little bit of credibility. Like you're not a jerk, you're trying your best. That's, and that is to me the STR, MTR welcome experience. I think they should be the same. I think if you're checking into an MTR, it should be exactly like an Airbnb. Very clear instructions, extremely clear house notes, like all those little details. Like, I don't want a guest to have to ask me anything. So that's where the experience is very similar, I think. And that's what I coach students on. Like, if you want to walk in and feel like you're in Airbnb, you're just going to stay for a couple months, right? That's the thing.

So yeah, yeah. And, and, and I'm— yeah, I'm glad you said that, Shona, because yeah, we are working on, um, frequently asked questions, right? Like, we have a little booklet, but we are revamping those for each property, you know, making them a little bit nicer. Uh, and we're actually thinking about instead of switching, uh, just sticking with kind of the paper laminated booklets that I think a lot of people have, uh, we're thinking about maybe like mounting some type of smart tablet photo thing, um, to like kind of digitalizing it and where people can swipe like, hey, here's everything you need to know in a video about the hot tub. Here's everything you need to know about the AC. Here's kind of some local restaurants, right? And, and just kind of like creating like a you know, a, a higher level of like, hey, we understand what your needs are, we understand that everything's digital. So that's another thing that we'll probably be into implementing with at least a few of the owners I work with here in the, you know, coming months.

Yeah. And the other thing I like about that, reading just a QR code you can scan, is that the notes always end up— there's always nuance. And so I have found myself reprinting them, and I get— I'm like, I wish I just had— like, I have my master, but If it's digital and not hard copy with some kind of code, then you're not always— it's always like very up to date. Every little thing that someone asks about the garbage is in Portland like every other Friday, and it's very particular. And if you miss that, you are screwed, right?

Like, yeah, well, hey, not them, you, you, the co-host, you, the owner, are screwed, right? Like, yeah, that— yeah, they could, they could just, you know, they can just, you know, I mean, at least for, for, for a short-term, right? People are just like, oh sure, we'll just let the cleaners deal with it, right? So we, we try to deal with that more, uh, I mean, as much as possible. But yeah, it definitely will fall on you if they're— if, you know, have you ever gotten the text like, oh sorry, we missed the trash person, Shona, what do we do?

Right? Well, I'm over there fussing around and I see it and I've, I've like loaded garbage into my car multiple times. Like, I've driven around, I'm like, I'm like, I cannot believe I'm driving around with garbage, but like, I want, I want the experience, even though for a long term, you know, but I mean, that's the thing. And like, I've had to, and they, you know, long term they leave the cans full, so like the NEF person can't put the garbage in there, so I have to like get them down to a level that's like acceptable. I mean, garbage is like, it's strangely a thing. Like, yeah, yeah, I mean, I've heard you can get services that would pick it up for you. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, no, and, and yeah, she's definitely not wrong. If anybody here is like a long, long, long time landlord, I'm sure at some point you've had a tenant move out and they've just absolutely filled the trash and recycling. They have stuff next to it. They have their bed frame and, and all kinds of stuff, right? And yeah, I mean, that's either on you or you need to hire a co-host or manager or somebody to deal with that because that is a real thing and it happens. Not, not occasionally. It happens frequently when you have turnover, when you have either long-term, short-term, or midterm. People make trash.

They do, and they like to leave it. My last turnover was— it was so heavy and full of rocks, it was very suspicious. I don't know what— we're like, what is in here? We had to like unearth it, like, you know, because it was so heavy. It's crazy.

I remember you telling me that you were trying to wheel it down the driveway and it was so heavy you couldn't. Yeah, that's That's crazy. Who puts rocks in a trash can? That's just strange.

I know. And it was just like, is there a body in here? Like, what? This is really odd. What are we covering up in the trash can? Yeah, all the things. Well, yeah, I mean, so I think the takeaway here is like, you know, I teach students how to self-manage. I think it's doable. I think it's more with midterm, but if you're doing the hybrid, just know your stuff, you know. There's a lot that goes into it and you do not want to dabble. And I think if you don't want to do this and you just really— because we go into this for passive income. It's not so passive when you're dealing with all of the stuff on an everyday basis. Right. Especially with short terms if you're doing that like Hybird. So yeah.

Yeah. The least passive thing I can think of for sure.

Hauling garbage. Right. Yeah. I've picked up dog poop. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's not always sexy. Right. This, this life of ours. But what are the most— are there any common questions you get about co-hosting? I think we covered a lot of them. Right. I think the main thing is we're not collecting the rent, right? That's going directly to the owner. So you get paid quicker, which is, in my mind, like a very big bonus, right? You're not getting paid on the 15th of the month like a long-term rental. So that's one thing I really like.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think, yeah, we talked about some of the technologies, we talked about some of the struggles. Um, I mean, yeah, I think you have a little bit more chance to quality control your midterm tenants versus you know, you know, guests, uh, for short-term. Uh, obviously we check reviews and we, you know, we, we do what we can to make sure that we're, you know, approving people that are reasonable. But actually, uh, one of the owners said this to me and it actually really makes sense. You are catching really wonderful people at their worst because they're on vacation. So, so, and I was like, wow, that actually really resonates with me. It's like, you know, and I think we've all been on vacation. I think we all have that mode of like, hey, I'm just going to have a good time and it's somebody else's problem. Well, that somebody else could be you. So just be ready for it.

So true. Yeah. Again, this is why I love midterm because people are there to work, but again, the hybrid thing, I think that's like the ultimate, right? Ultimate maximizing. Rake it in during the, you know, the high season destination, and then if you can go midterm, and there's some certain strategies. But yeah, no, it's very true. Yeah. Yeah, okay, any other questions? I've covered a lot. I think we've changed some fun stories. But yeah, I mean, I think there's lots of—

bring them on, you guys. You have experts here. Yeah, we do long-term, short-term, midterm. I mean, bring it on.

We're seasoned investors, we've seen it all. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. We've run the numbers. Yeah.

I also want to say, I think everyone hears, they hear the horror stories of long-term rentals. They hear the horror stories of short-term and even midterm and squatters and that every, the worst case scenario doesn't usually happen. And if it does, you figure it out. So don't listen to all the horror stories. If you run a well-oiled operation, if you have a high-end, you know, quality property, you're going to be okay. That's my opinion, right? Like, I think that's—

yeah. And I think, you know, if, if you guys work, you know, like, I, I think I started with, you know, on a Sunday night at 10 PM having to go replace a smoke detector. That was really unfortunate, but it only took me like 30 seconds to do, right? I brought a stepladder, wasn't the worst thing in the world, you know. They were very appreciative. I know for a fact they left a 5-star review because they knew that we were like going out of our way on a Sunday evening, right? So everybody was really happy. Was it annoying? Did I not really enjoy it? Absolutely. You know what I told the owners, uh, the next, the next day? I said, we are buying all new smoke alarms, all brand new with brand new batteries, because I never want to do that again. And that's what we did. We installed all new, brand new smoke alarms.

So worth it. Yeah, I even—

and now it won't— and now won't be a problem.

Yeah, right. Or turn them off remotely if they're smart, right? If they're Wi-Fi connected, then you don't have to do that.

There you go. Yeah, I know. If I could have talked him into that, that would have been great. Yeah, yeah.

Um, a couple of questions.

We have a— yeah, yeah. And we have— and now I also said, hey, let's have a stepladder at that property too. So now if, you know, if somebody's willing and able to get on a stepladder, we have a 3— a 3-step ladder. People can can get to them themselves. Um, obviously not something you want to do on vacation, but it's there and you don't have to wait for somebody to show up to do it, to listen to that beeping incessantly.

Um, yeah, totally.

I felt for them and that's why I was like, let's, let's take care of this.

Yeah. Um, we don't work together, Misty, we're just like friends and investors and we call each other when we have our horror stories. We like support each other.

Yeah, we, we complain to each other. Yeah, we complain to each other. Yeah.

We have like a landlord hotline, pretty much.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, we're gonna start a new Facebook group, uh, Landlords Anonymous, because we are in a very—

like, if anyone is not from the Portland, Oregon area, right, Brandon, you're not in Portland, but it's not landlord friendly, so you kind of have to have a very thick skin and be in this for the long run. So yeah, yep, yep. Um, Okay, Jess is asking, what are the best tips for booking to avoid vacancy with MTR? I mean, you know, here's the thing with MTR, the STR, like just really big picture MTR, I— you're booking someone, I never book someone behind them because often they want to extend. And that's part of what we're offering is flexible stays. And if a family has rehab, they might want to extend. I think it comes down to marketing and pulling those levers like pricing and having quality properties. Again, dialing in your listings, there's like a million things. But that's high level. What I would say is just be a really good operator and be on top of extensions, right? If someone's going to— their lease is ending, like we have leases, check in 45 days. Hey, are you interested in extending? If not, no problem. You can start booking someone behind them. But short term, right? You don't ever check. Hey, do you want to extend 2 nights? Right? I don't think so. That's the biggest thing.

It's funny you say that. It's funny you say that. If we have a vacancy, so one thing that we don't like to do, and I've heard other STR people are okay with it, we don't like to do one-night stays. Usually one person who's booking, a group of people who are booking for one night are there to party and probably break stuff. So we do not do, it's literally in our, in the software with Airbnb that we do not allow one-night bookings. So sometimes we'll have, you know, a Monday open, or we'll have a Wednesday open, or whatever. And I'll ask the people before, like, hey, do you want to stay a little bit longer? Do you want to have a later checkout? Well, hey, we'll give you a discount if you just book the extra day, right? Because it was lost income. There's no, no way to make income. We're not having, you know, one-night stays. So that is one thing that I am also doing, is I'm looking to optimize revenue. As well. So anytime I can get somebody to stay an extra day or come a day early, um, I, I do offer that. Yeah, and we do offer a discount as well because, um, it just, it makes more money for, for the owners and thus makes more money for me, right? So why not?

Well, and it's just, it's thoughtful, right? Maybe they're having a great time when they want to extend and they didn't know they could, right? So they just put it as a book, as like a special request, right, on there, and that's how they do that.

So yeah, you just change the request. It's— yep, yep, just change the request. It's very easy to do. They can do it, we can do it, and it just— someone needs to approve it. And yeah, I think a lot of people, um, think that like, you know, and I would say at least 50 to 75% of the time they already have their flights booked, their schedule, right? They're, they're on to the next thing. Um, but I would say, you know, a good amount of time people, at least with the short-term rentals, are willing to consider especially at a discount, to stay an extra day or come a day early. They feel like they're getting some value. So if they have that flexibility, I have had multiple people— I've done this multiple times— where they're willing to extend their stay.

That's— I never thought about with STR. That's actually a really good point. I think it just speaks to the— I mean, it's income, but it's also being thoughtful too, right? Which speaks to one another thing I just need to point out in this STR versus MTR. Little debate, healthy debate. Reviews are important. They do not, I will say they don't really matter. Like STR, it will kill you. And MTR is, I don't, I don't, it has, I think it will be an issue. I think it's coming, but right now it's not. You do not need to have reviews. And with an STR, like what are your strategies for like getting great reviews, dealing with bad reviews? Cause that can kill you.

Yeah, I mean, we've definitely had to challenge some bad reviews. Um, that's something that I've worked specifically with the owners and saying, hey, how do you want to craft this message? Um, obviously we do everything we can to bend over backwards to like accommodate people and make sure they have an amazing stay, because we got to remember they're on vacation, they're, they're there to have a good time. Um, so we, we don't want people to have a bad experience. So I would say first and foremost, you're right, have amazing pictures so they know exactly what they're getting. You don't want somebody to show up and say, oh my gosh, I'm next to a freeway. You know, they would not be okay with that, right? So like, you have to be very mindful. People need to know what they're getting. So pictures, like you said at the very beginning, super important. People need to know what they're getting. Um, and then I think just as a co-host, it's my job being really responsive, problem solving, obviously being a good and gracious host. I think people really appreciate that and understand. I can't tell you how many people say, oh my God, thank you for being so responsive. Thank you for— I mean, literally, at least once a week people say, wow, thanks for like, boom, thanks for getting back to me immediately, right? People really, really appreciate when they have a question, getting it— I mean, it's just like Googling, like, oh, I have a question for Google, you get an answer immediately, right? Same thing when you're on vacation. It's almost like they have a concierge service where somebody's responding and like, hey, I'm a real person, I'm local, I'm here to help. I think that also helps as well. And just, yeah, making sure you have an awesome house, well maintained, and have somebody like me who's an awesome salesperson, uh, who's, you know, good at talking to people, be responsive and, and, and help them when they have questions.

Yeah, that's—

and make sure you have the can openers, right?

Yeah, and the wine opener and all the little things.

Yes. Yeah, all the little thousand things that you don't think of. They will think of on vacation, and they'll let you know.

Yeah, and I think if something really goes south, like with— I haven't done this a lot with MTR, with STR, you can like send them maybe a pizza or send something over just like, hey, I'm so sorry about that, like that, you know, took out your whatever. We really, we really appreciate your patience.

Just so, yeah, you can credit their account, you can give them— yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think that's awesome. Yeah, you can definitely— and we have done that before. We have actually brought people a bottle of wine as, as like, hey, we're so sorry for the inconvenience. "Uh, what type of wine do you like?" and give them two options between red or, uh, red wine or white wine. Um, or, "Hey, do you, you know, do you want a $25 gift card? Do you want us to, to adjust your reservation and just give you $25 back? Like, you know, what can we do to, to, uh, make it up to you?" Yeah, and that goes so far, right?

It's not just for the reason, it's about the experience too, right? Just to make that clear, we want someone to be like, yeah, that was annoying, I had to deal with something beeping, but guess what, they were very thoughtful and they gave me this or gave me a discount, right? So it's about the experience. One note on reviews, like MTRs, they aren't as critical, but I do think you should ask for them, especially on like a Google My Business page, right? 'Cause that's a publicly facing thing that someone might Google your business, so they are important in that respect. So another question, David is asking, what are typical range of rates for cleaning a 4-bedroom STR in Oregon? 3 of 4 quotes are $250+.

Yeah, um, that sounds about right. If you're going just off of Google and you're looking for, um, cleaners that have, you know, 100 5-star reviews with that big of a house, yeah, absolutely. Um, we have been working diligently, um, since, since I am a co-host and I have access to 7 properties now, and I'm working with others to onboard more. I'm able to kind of negotiate with my, with my cleaners and say, hey, all— and this helps being a short-term rental as well. And, and you could even push back on this too and say, hey, this isn't a once a month cleaning, this isn't a, a once a year. We had a tenant turn, right? I'm giving you lots of cleanings, right? At least, at least 2, 2 to 4 a week depending on how many properties you have. So you just tell them like, hey, I'm willing to give you more work, but you got to give me a discount, right? Everything is negotiable. Everything is negotiable. So talk to them, find the one, find the, the 3 that you like the most and say, hey, I'm looking to provide you a volume of work, but I need a discount on the price. Um, I don't really want to say what we pay our cleaners, but it is, it is less than 250. Is because we've negotiated and said, hey, we're providing volume and, you know, you'll end up making more and we provide the supplies as well. So another important thing with your cleaners, you want to keep them happy, you want to, you know, make sure they don't have to bring any of their own supplies, which, you know, could be expensive for them. And then to, you know, tell them, hey, I have volume, right? I have multiple check-ins, checkouts, I need a better deal.

I hadn't heard about the providing supplies thing, that's interesting. But yeah, it's all negotiation, right? They want consistent work and you also want to test people out. Like, you might get a screaming deal, but cleaning is so— if there is a hair or something out of place, like, let me tell you, that is going to kill your— nobody wants a check. It's got to be hotel level, it's got to be just dialed. It's so important, and a lot of cleaners don't understand that, right?

Um, yeah, yeah, no, hey, Shona, you're totally, you're totally right. You get what you pay for. I, I promise you, you can go on Craigslist today and find somebody who's willing to pay, who's willing to clean your house for $200, uh, $125, and you're gonna get that type of cleaning. It's gonna be, you know, it's gonna just be very surface level stuff. But Shona makes a very good point. I mean, you have to wash all the linen, you have to clean the floors, you have to do the dishes, you have to make sure the hot tub is clean if you have a hot tub, right? That takes chemicals. Sometimes you have to empty it and refill it. Uh, there's a lot to do. There's a lot to do. And when you have a check-in, uh, at 4 and you have somebody who has left at 10, they, they don't But especially with a bigger house, right? A lot of the properties I manage are bigger. We have 7 to 10 beds on some of these properties. That is a lot of laundry to go through, a lot of towels, a lot of hand towels. They got to refill soap, kitchen soap, dish soap, the dishwashing tabs, right? There's a lot of things to do.

So— A lot.

And I'll be honest. Yeah, I know she's laughing because she doesn't have to deal with any of this.

This is why NTR, like, I'm just like, I do that one time and then I go over there 3 months later and I'm grumpy about refilling soap, and I'm like, listen, I haven't been here, but it's so important. You're getting a premium, right? That's that trade-off. And but if the soap is not— like, all of those details are not dialed in, it looks like someone stayed there and they didn't clean because they used all the soap. Like, all of those things are so critical. So how do you kind of— I don't want to say enforce that, but make sure— I mean, I guess we're getting pictures, but it's— and they also— the other thing is people move stuff around and that you have to put it back together, right? Like A little bit.

Yes. Yeah, so that's, that's a really good point. Um, it sounds like you're actively looking for cleaners, and I'll be honest, we have gone through a few cleaners. Um, you're not going to find a rock star at the very beginning, so, um, you're going to have to go in right after them and check their work. We do ask that they send pictures and videos, one, to check quality of work, you know, obviously, um, but two, you know, we also tell them that You know, it's very important that, you know, for Airbnb or any type of, um, issues that we have, that we need them to have that documented.

So yeah, yeah, it's a process too, right? Again, working with someone like yourself, you're going to like oversee that. You're not— I mean, you're going to have trained cleaners that know your systems, that know your standards. So really good tips.

Um, yeah, exactly. And you have to build out— you have to build out a check sheet as well for the cleaners.

I've also heard of people taking pictures of how, like, I mean, I am, I want the pillows a certain way. I want the chop, right? Like how things should look. So give them like laminated photos. Like this is how you put it back together because guests, they move stuff. Like not always, sometimes you walk in, it looks like no one's been there. And sometimes you're like, why is that pillow in the other room? Right, Brandon? I don't know. I've noticed that like sometimes things travel a little bit.

Yeah, we've had guests take pillows, we've had blankets taken, hopefully by mistake. But yes, we've, we've had things go missing and we've had things misplaced, all kinds of crazy stuff.

Yeah, sometimes I'm like, I look, I'm like, I know I'm looking for something and it's in a drawer or something. So yeah, it's— I don't get a lot of things stolen, but things get moved in MTRs. Um, so We have another question. Okay, David, you're saying 100% right about looking for cheap cleaners, just makes sense to get 1 to 3 day stays. Yeah, totally. Yeah, cleaning is, I think it really is, it's kind of the biggest, I don't wanna say the biggest part of your experience, but like, I mean, I have caught things on like toilet seats being up, like those little details. I mean, it just, it really matters.

We could do a whole thing on cleaning. Yeah, I know, yeah, cleaning is critical. CC, cleaning is critical, absolutely.

Yeah, and it's just, and you know, until, and I would also say like, until you have that trust built up, have someone have built-in like quality control, like either get videos or pictures. Like don't just trust that a new cleaner is gonna do a great job. They may have the best intentions, but if someone's checking an empty or STR and they miss something, that just does not set the tone for the experience. So super important. Okay, next question. Jess, are you okay on time? We have another question. Let me know, Brandon. You cool?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

All right, awesome. Okay, so I'm going to read this. I'll take the first shot at it. Jess is asking, have you had any issues with Airbnb suspending a listing? I have one STR that has multiple units. We had to move a guest to check into a superior unit due to miscommunication with the cleaner. We got flagged by Airbnb and they canceled all bookings. Our listing was lost and they reinstated it. So I'll just say, I don't— on a higher level, a strategic level, that is one of the reasons why don't just be on Airbnb, like have a direct booking site, be on different platforms, try and build up your own network, right? So that's just high level, right? Airbnb, if you're just on there, you're kind of at the mercy of that. But Brendan, maybe you can speak to like more tactical what you do if that— I don't know if that's— have you had that happen to you?

Yeah, so I haven't had that experience yet where they've blocked any of our listings or anything like that. I mean, obviously a guest could, could, could have, you know, said, hey, they lied, there's crazy stuff going on here, right? And, and get your listing shut down. So there are crazy people out there. Um, I think Shona makes a very good point. You want to be on multiple platforms just so you're not at the whim of just Airbnb or just VRBO. Um, but yeah, that sounds like more of like, you know, maybe technical issues with Airbnb. And I think, you know, obviously with a big behemoth of a company, it's really difficult to get a hold of like a manager where you can have like a one-on-one conversation about like, hey, what's, what's really going on here, as opposed to some type of vague email as to, hey, sorry, we shut your listing down just because, and we're gonna evaluate stuff. So, um, so yeah, I'm sorry that happened to you. That's terrible. Um, but, uh, it It's— it—

it—

I'm glad you brought that up. That can absolutely happen, um, and you need to be prepared for that. And I mean, yeah, there's only so much you can do, but make sure that you have a really good reputation, good reviews, uh, treat your guests with a lot of respect. And, and sometimes, you know, you do have to move guests. Sometimes you have to put them up somewhere else. Sometimes you have to fully refund or maybe even more and just say, hey, I'm sorry that this happened, you know, please don't go to Airbnb and get my account suspended.

Yeah, and I will say too, I'm sure if anyone doesn't know this, never ever ever cancel a guest. Have them do it. And if there's a valid reason, even if it's valid, don't do it. Have them do it. And there's ways to do that, right, Brandon? I don't know if you've had to do that or how you frame it, but yeah, you will get dinged.

Yeah, we try very, very hard to— yeah, we try very hard not to do that, obviously. Obviously nobody wants their vacation to be canceled, um, so we try very hard not to do that. Um, we'll— we work our contractors around our guests, we work our cleaning around our guests, right? That's, that's the revenue, so you need to keep that going, you need to keep that turned on. Um, but, but yeah, there's, there's times where it's unavoidable. But yeah, like Shona said, you want them to cancel on their end. Um, you do not want to be perceived as— because Airbnb looks at that and they say, whoa, you know, this isn't a safe place to be sending, you know, guests because they're canceling on people. So trust me, that does go into the algorithm. Your listing will be buried. Yeah, don't cancel on people.

Yeah, you want to stay friends with the algorithm. You don't want to piss it off, right?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Okay, any other questions? We've covered a lot. It's been a fun little debate between MTR and STR. Again, I think ultimately, like, all strategies work. It depends on your kind of property, where you are. There's so many factors, but I think if you're not sure, reaching out to someone that knows what they're doing, doing the research, you'll figure it out. And, you know, also just don't be afraid to test it. Maybe you think STR is the way to go and you try it and you're like, this is amazing, I'm killing it, but the turnovers and I just just, you know, then, and then you can try MTR, right? You're not locked into either strategy, or it could go back to long-term, right? I will say though, unfurnishing a property is the thing I never want to do. I will accommodate different things, but once it's furnished, I would very reluctantly unfurnish it because it is a level of effort and love, and it's just, you know, it's so— but anything is movable, right? But so test things out, talk to people. Yeah, you're welcome, Misty. Thanks for tuning in. Um, if there's no other questions, Brandon, why don't you let people know how they can reach you, what areas you're in, how they, how they can work with you. Also, yeah, virtual tours.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I do a lot of different things. Uh, you can definitely reach out to me on Facebook, uh, Brandon Hendrick. I, I have a very nice view of the ocean as my, uh, my, um, picture because that's where I want to be. Ocean's very important to me. Um, you can also reach out, uh, pnwrentals1@gmail.com. So you can reach out to me, you can email me if you have any questions or anything like that. Reach out to me through Facebook. I am in the Portland and surrounding areas, uh, so I'm, I'm willing to manage anything probably within 2 hours of there. And I am going to start looking for coastal Airbnbs and short-term rentals as well because now I have the cleaner base And that's the most important part. If you have rockstar cleaners, you can, you know, I now I feel comfortable adding more properties on. So if anybody needs help.

Yeah, I've known Brandon a long time. He's very responsible. He's easy to work with and we don't work together, but I know he's a professional operator, which I think is really important. So yes, reach out. I also do co-hosting. I'm purely in the MTR space. I, I want nothing to do with— I, you know, I'm in that space. I love it. I think that everybody is great. I, my properties are very— they're not destination. I've had a couple and they were great. It was fun. But so if you're interested in co-hosting or just chatting more about the course, if you want to do this DIY, I'm also offering kind of marketing and optimizing because I think a lot of times we put up a listing and we're not in the right places and the pictures aren't good and there's a lot of reasons we're not getting booked that I can kind of look at and give you feedback on. So if you're interested in any of that, feel free to comment. But, um, I hope you got a lot of value. Let us know in the comments if you're watching the replay what your, like, key takeaways are. I'd love to hear it. Really appreciate it. Um, it's always nice to see people tuning in. And yeah, and just also, Brandon's in the group too, so you can, like, mention him or whatnot if you want to talk to him about hiring him for virtual tours or whatnot. Want. So yeah, awesome.

Yeah, absolutely, anything I can do to help.

Yeah, we're both pretty involved in the real estate community, like locally and like nationally too, so, you know, happy to be resources. Brandon, thanks for taking the time. This is fun as always, talk shop. Awesome.

Absolutely.

Take care, everyone. Again, if you're watching the replay, just tag one of us if you're interested talking more about any of the things we about, or if you have other questions, we're happy to chime in. But hopefully you guys got some value. Let us know what your takeaways were. Thanks, Colton. Thanks, Misty. Thanks, Jess. Thanks, Sheila. I can't see more comments because I'm kind of multitasking here, but yeah, everyone for tuning in. Thank you so much again.

Yeah, thanks everyone.

Really appreciate your time. Awesome. Catch you in the next one.