Mission-Driven Real Estate Investment: An Interview with Erica Brown | She's Got Assets Podcast

What are your goals? And you can get caught up in having a certain amount of doors, because I've been there where I've gotten caught up. I want 100 doors. Why do you want 100 doors?

I don't know.

Because I want to have 100 doors. What about your ego? But does that actually align with why you're doing this? I didn't do this to create another job for myself. I've had these years because I also run multiple businesses, and so I I've had these years where you're in the startup phase of your business and you're running and running. And now I'm coming out of that and I'm like, I don't want to do that. I don't want to work that hard. And most real estate investors don't want to work that hard. That's why we're doing it.

Welcome to the She's Got Assets Real Estate Investing Podcast. I'm the host, Shona Leppis. Follow along as we unpack and demystify real estate investment strategies through expert interviews and personal experience. From how to find off-market deals to creative financing to long-term and midterm rentals, We aim to educate and inspire others to gain financial freedom and generational wealth through real estate. And as always, please subscribe so you never miss an episode. We really appreciate reviews. It helps others find us and it just helps us get found.

I've been there before.

All right, everyone. Welcome to She's Got Assets. I'm super excited to have the guest I have on today, Erica Brown. She is a real estate investor, a serial entrepreneur, and she has a really great story to tell. And I think we're both very driven by mission and values and our why. So welcome, Erica. I'm so happy to have you.

I'm so excited to be here. Thanks so much for having me.

Yeah. So I think we've all told our backstory a million times.

Yes.

We did the Rich Dad, Poor Dad thing, or I think Cashflow or whatever it was. So I'd love to just dive into it. You're clearly very successful. Why are you doing this and what's your why in real estate? We can just dive into it.

I'm doing it for multiple reasons. There is a, there's a why for me, and then there's a why for my community. The why for me is that I simply have always liked to control my own time. I like to be able to have the autonomy to say yes to what I want to say yes to, say no to what I want to say no to, and not have to be stuck in situations. So that's a version of it. The other part of my why is, is really because I don't like people being left out. And when I started first learning about real estate investing and the power of real estate, it was like a light bulb that went off. And I was so frustrated at the same time that, that this was new to me, that it wasn't taught in schools, that I didn't grow up seeing landlords. And I really questioned why. So a big part of my mission invest and also to share is because I want to normalize being a real estate investor. I want to normalize looking at this as an opportunity to build wealth so that we can really be freed up to do whatever God has called us to do, whatever our passions are, et cetera. So that is my mission for sure.

I love that. A couple of things that stand out to me, I know in my journey, it's taken me a I was very private and I would say I was almost a little bit ashamed of it. So normalize it. I think that's a powerful thing and I just wanna hear you unpack that more.

Yes, absolutely. A lot of, so for me, for example, growing up, my, my family, we owned our home. We owned two homes growing up. The first one was when I, I was born, my, my parents bought that house. It's really interesting. My dad didn't have— he actually dropped out of school in the 6th grade. He was very young, lived in a rural environment, started working. So he really didn't have education. And my mom did. She was able to graduate high school. And so as soon as they had me, they bought their first house and then we sold that house and then bought another house. In my point of view, given where my parents came from, we made it. Quote unquote, right? And it wasn't until much later in life that I learned that the, with the power of assets, when you live in the house, it's sure, your equity is considered an asset, but it's really a liability because you aren't making money. So growing up, I didn't know anyone that owned a home more than what the house that they lived in. So it would have been abnormal to see someone that looked like me own more than one property because it was already a gift, a privilege in my community to even own a home because a bunch of my friends, they owned, they lived in apartments. And so I, I, part of normalizing it is allowing the younger generation to just see this as something that we just do. So like my kids, I have 3 boys, and so they, they have grown up just seeing people, seeing, seeing us own multiple properties and they've grown up working in the properties and they've grown up hearing about the tenants and managing tenants and making moves and strategies. And so I, I want that to be something that a lot of people, especially people of color, begin to see as something that is just that we do, not something that is, oh wow, you do that? Not a surprise. Does that make sense?

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. No, I think cuz we model what we grew up with and it's very loaded, right? Real estate, having just a house for— I mean, I know my first house was like, um, it was like the most amazing feeling. That really, that feeling of homeownership. And I think It's so important. And we don't have those models or we don't see ourselves. It just feels very unattainable, right?

Before you get into this.

So how do we overcome that? Just, I'll never own a house. It's too expensive. And there's so many strategies, right? But I think it's mindset. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, for sure. It starts with belief. I've had clients as I'm also a real estate agent and I've had clients that have been the first homeowners in their entire family and generations, like no one else in their grandmother, their mother, their grandma, their great-grandmother have not been homeowners and they have been the first. And so it's easy when you haven't seen someone else do it, regardless of what you see online, what you see on TV, if you haven't seen someone personally that you know do it, that will affect your belief if you can even do it yourself, if, if that is for you. And so it starts with mindset. It starts with surrounding yourselves around other people that, um, have similar lifestyle backgrounds that you have to see them doing it. And that really does begin planting the seed to say, if they did it, maybe I could do it too. And then that's where it starts.

I, I totally got goosebumps when you said that. That's just like such a— and then that's going to impact generations, right? That's so powerful.

Yes.

Oh my gosh. So many directions. Yeah. I think I got into the podcast and coaching cuz I didn't see a lot of women and I wanted to empower more women and just to be like, you can do this. You don't have to be a white male.

Yes. Love men. Love my husband.

But yeah. So it's, it's hard. Yeah. It's very empowering to hear that as well. So how, yeah, I guess where to go from that. What do you think? So if someone, how do you start that? Is it education or what is the steps to be like the power of homeownership? That's a stepping stone, right?

Yeah, I think the first, the start, the first step is one, deciding that this is something that you want to pursue. Starting there. And then from there, being able to find someone else that is doing it. A lot of times we feel like we have to know all the steps before we feel ready to do something instead of being able to focus on who can help me figure out how to do this because everyone's journey is gonna be different anyway. So really finding, is there someone that I know that has already went down this road that I can pick their brain and be able to learn more about? And to be able to ask him questions to talk about my specific situation so I can know, am I ready or do I need to do this first, et cetera. And sometimes we know people within our network that we have access to that could help us in that way. And sometimes we don't and we have to ask for referrals. We may have to pay for coaching depending on what the situation is, but it starts with a decision. And then second, it starts with Connecting with someone else who has, who has already been down that road. A lot of times we listen to advice of people who haven't even done it before, especially in this world of the internet and social media and everybody are experts. Everybody has an opinion on everything. And it's really easy to hear something or see something online and think that, okay, yep, that's it. You know, in order to buy a house, I gotta have 20% down. No, you don't. There are ways to buy houses. There are ways to buy investment properties without putting 20% down. It's just about connecting with someone who has been able to buy a house without putting 20% down and then finding out what they did. So it's much easier than what people think by being able to meet someone and talk to someone who has been down that road before.

Yeah, I think that's so important because it's not easy and there's a lot of gurus out there. So let me ask you this. I think there's two schools of thought. I feel like my first house was my, was owner occupied, but it became my game board and the game board. Do you think your first house was investment or does it depend on your why or what's your take on that?

I think it depends. So our first house initially was not an investment because we lived in it. We paid the mortgage every month. We did not make money from the property. We of course bought in an area that was appreciating in value. So when we sold, we made money, but it, to me, personal opinion, again, it's a personal opinion, but it, it didn't become an investment until we started creating income from the property. So what we did was we bought the house and we did the FHA renovation loan, which is called the 203k. And we used some of those funds to actually renovate the basement. Our basement was actually dirt. It wasn't even like a basement. Didn't even have a concrete floor. Okay. And we renovated it and created an additional unit in the basement. And so we started renting the basement out to someone at our church, started making money, and then that's when it became an investment. And that was the first seed that was like, hmm, there is something to this. Let me lean into this more. If we're able to make money from this. Small unit, maybe we can also buy another property somewhere else and make money. And then that's what happened from there.

I feel like it's that way, but when you get that first renter, you house hack or what, back when I was doing it was a roommate, right? I needed help with the mortgage.

I'm like, I'll rent a room out. Yeah. Yeah. It's resourcefulness.

Mm-hmm.

A lot of us start with resourcefulness.

You have to take that step and maybe it's uncomfortable. I didn't love sharing, but I knew on some level that it was the right, I was building something. I wasn't like, it was just like I fell into it, but I, on some level, but this was the right thing to do. And yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

I guess bringing it back to, I think I heard you say you're like a mission-driven investor. Like how does that fold into kind of your strategies? And yeah, I'd love to hear your transition from like Airbnb to Section 8.

Yes. Yes. I know. So. A part of being a mission-driven investor is that a part— the lens that I look out of when I am making moves, when I am doing deals, it comes from a lens of wanting and desiring to be helpful. As a real estate investor, I get the opportunity to provide housing for someone, and that's a huge deal. Whether it's temporarily or long-term, that is a really important part of someone's life. Where we call home and we land after being out in the crazy world, that's a big deal. And so I don't take that lightly. As I'm making decisions day to day, whether it's responding to a maintenance request or thinking about renovating a property and I'm choosing the finishes, I am considering the person that is gonna move into the house and ultimately that I'm gonna be serving in mind when I'm making those decisions. In addition to being concerned about profitability, because I'm not doing this as a nonprofit, I'm doing this as a for-profit because I help— this helps to take care of my family with the money that we make. And so it's definitely a social entrepreneurship. It's very much considering solving social problems along with being able to create profit. And so You know, a part of just like my values and who I am just really just flow from the moves that I make in real estate, if that makes any sense. It's not like a separate thing. Mm-hmm.

No, I think there's a lot of decisions that's not, there's a lot of, it's not passive. There's a lot of, it's, there's hard, but knowing your why. And I think I love that you brought it back to it's someone's home. I think we get stuck in like, I have so many doors and it's like this cold asset. It's not, it's someone's home and we want them to be comfortable and feel safe and taken care of. And so I think that's really important. We gloss over that.

I think that's why the movement is going back because we're seeing more women become real estate investors. Women, we naturally think like that. We're more maternal. We're more considerate and caring generally. Not to say that men aren't, but we just lead from that type of lens. And so that's why I think women are great real estate investors. We know how to manage a lot of different things. We know, we know how to maximize our resources and, and we know how to just take care of people. And so I, I feel like more women should be considered being real estate investors. We may think whether it's that stay-at-home mom or, or someone who's been out in the corporate world and they may look at real estate and be intimidated and think, oh, there's no way I can do that. Actually, a lot of our everyday skills that we use are super transferable to real estate. And like some of the things I mentioned, being able to manage multiple things at the same time, really being able to figure out how to figure out the puzzle pieces of a renovation and a project of operating within a budget efficiently. All of those things are factors that make really good real estate investors. And even from my pivot from Airbnb to Section 8, there came a time where I review the, my, basically our cash flow of our portfolio pretty much every quarter. We are reviewing to see, is it performing what we thought? We originally forecasted this amount. Are we actually, what's the actual profit that we're making? How does, especially when we're doing more hands-on strategies like short-term rentals, if is this strategy that's more hands-on, is it as profitable as another strategy? And looking at what the demand is in our market. In my particular market where I live in Atlanta, Georgia, there is a big demand on smaller properties for Section 8 rentals for seniors, for people who are disabled. If there is a demand in my market and I'm actually just breaking even with Airbnb and it's not as predictable, I can pivot to another strategy like Section 8 that is guaranteed rent that could help provide housing, a housing demand in my area, but that also can do good because I'm helping to provide a senior a nice living space and it's recession-proof. So if someone were to lose their job, I will still get my rent. I will still be able to pay my mortgage. And so being able to look at things from that perspective allows me to be mission-aligned, but also to be profitable. And I just think women are great at making those decisions.

Oh, I love that on so many levels. I think, yeah, we sometimes We are very North, right? That's, but it's true. And I think providing housing is that, it is that, right? And being thoughtful about how we furnish it or upgrade it or what we're doing, right?

Someone's home.

So I think that's really, and I think if you can, when you're making those decisions, your exit strategy, knowing your why, I just think that it's helpful because there's a lot of options. There's a lot of sexy asset classes that On paper, right?

So, yes.

Yeah. That's really, yeah. I don't know a lot about Section 8, but is it, can you just explain a little bit for us? I just haven't. Yeah. I'm really curious.

So you may hear it called, being called Section 8. You also may hear it called just a voucher program. Generally every municipality or city has something called a housing authority. And with the housing authority, the city has funds that they allocate specifically towards affordable housing. And, and there are different types of voucher programs. Some of them are through the housing authority where we have Section 8 that you can— sometimes that's also called a form of housing welfare. That's another term for it. But one of the Things that people don't realize is that there are lots of different programs within the voucher, within the voucher world. You have Section 8, which is one of them that is provided from the city, and it's generally, it covers all or most of the rent that you're asking for. Also, the rent is generally very close, if not fair market value, so it's not necessarily significant cheaper and is not limited to a certain area of town. It could be considered A-class neighborhood or a B-class neighborhood. Also, you have other vouchers like veteran vouchers for previous veterans, senior vouchers, people who are unhoused that are transitioning to housing. There's voucher programs for them, people who have been previously incarcerated. There's lots of different foster people who grew up in the foster care system that are now adults. There are so many different voucher programs that, that are out there that can help you to provide housing and then also make a difference in someone's life. And, and so I, I really love them. Another thing is that misconception is that there are, that there are different requirements as far as the, you selecting the tenant. With vouchers or Section 8 tenants, and that's not true. Just in the same way you choose your regular tenant or your Airbnb guest and you have your specific rental criteria, you will have the same rental criteria that you decide to choose for a Section 8 or a voucher tenant as well. The only difference will be when it comes to the income part of your, your screening process, the voucher will cover your income, but you will still have the other requirements. If you require a 600 credit score, 550 credit score, if you require no evictions, whatever your requirements are, you can still have them. And I have a quick story that is, that really helps people to see the value in considering Section 8. I was listing, I was listing a home for rent. We had just finished renovating it. We did a BRRRR. For people who don't know what BRRRR is, it's buy rehab Rent, refinance, repeat. And so it's a strategy, a rental strategy. So we had just completed the BRRRR and we were looking for a tenant. And so I had a bunch of applications, but most people had like super low credit scores and they were having a hard time qualifying. And I hosted an open house. So I went to the open house and one of the ladies came in and she was walking around and she really liked the house. She said her brother lived across the street. She was a Section 8 tenant who had previously lived in a different neighborhood, and the neighborhood was getting rough. There was gunshots. She wanted to move to a more, uh, to a safer neighborhood where my home was. And so again, I had all these applications previously that I turned down. These were non-voucher tenants that I turned down because of credit, all the kind of stuff. She applied. Had almost a 700 credit score, had been working in her job for years, had no evictions. She actually had the best renter profile than all of the applicants, and she had a voucher. So just because someone have— has a voucher doesn't mean that they have bad credit, that they have a poor history. They just may make less money than you, but that doesn't mean that they are bad people or that they're gonna tear the house up or those types of things. So I love to tell that story. She's been there for 3 years. She's a single mom. She takes care of the house and she's a great tenant. And, and so I just love being able to provide those opportunities.

Yeah, no, that's because I think there's a lot of misconceptions, right? We just hear that and we assume things, right? Which isn't like, to your point, not necessarily accurate. And I, I think I've heard you say this. I imagine there's less turnover, right?

Yes. Yes. Yes. I love that.

I hate turnover.

Yes, me too. Oh, I can't stand it.

The only thing that I like getting in and fixing stuff other than that. Yeah, that, no, I think that's really good. I think that's important to keep an open mind. I think that we hear these strategies, right? We listen to podcasts and we're like, oh, that's shiny object. How do you know sometimes when to pivot or when to like, do you just niche down on one strategy or what's your take on that? Because there's a toolbox.

I'll change my— so I've been investing now since I think 2016. What is it, 2024?

Yeah.

Yeah. 8 years or whatever now. And so I've changed my strategy multiple times. One, you just have to be kind to yourself and realize that it's okay to change your mind. Like I have told myself it is okay to change my mind. Because I may be in one season of life and this is what I want to do. And if I'm in a growth season, I'm buying a bunch of properties and I am trying to get to a certain level. And then I may move to a stabilization season where I don't want to buy a bunch of properties. So I try to, one, understand where, what stage of my investing I am in. Also, like now I'm in the season where I built up this portfolio. I have a great amount of equity. I have good cash flow now, and I haven't necessarily had to live off of my rental income. So now I'm in a place where it's like, ah, my son is gonna be graduating high school in 2 years. I think I just wanna do less. So let me actually potentially sell some properties, pay off some mortgages, and increase my rental income. And so that's, I feel like it's understanding, pairing where you are in the season of your life to where you are in your wealth building season of your life. And how can you merge those to work for you instead of against you? What I'm not doing in this season, what I did when I first started was have 70% of my portfolio Airbnb. And I also had an Airbnb management company and I had a staging company. I'm not doing that right now, okay? I think it's being honest with yourself, being kind to yourself, and being able to figure out what do I need in this season right now? I need to be able to attend all of my son's college visits. I need to not have to be thinking about how something's going to be paid. I just need to be able to collect. Income to be able to take care of what we need to take care of. And that's it. That's a long answer, but I hope I—

No, I think it's this game board, right? You can move pieces around. So if I can ask you this, I've been up to gradients, right? And sometimes I think we don't know when to stop, right? If we don't know where our goals are, we're always— and we hear these like, I have 200 doors. How are they calculating?

Yes. That doesn't make you own them. No, I know where you're going and this is really good cuz I was, I have a group of friends that, um, I'm a part of a mastermind and we talk all the time and we travel a couple times a year and we're constantly checking in with each other. What are you working towards? What are your goals? And you can get caught up in having a certain amount of doors cuz I've been there where I've gotten caught up. I want 100 doors. Why do you want 100 doors?

I don't know.

Because I want to have 100 doors. It's more about your ego, but does that have to be aligned with why you're doing this? I didn't do this to create another job for myself. I've had these years because I'm also, I also run multiple businesses. And so I've had these years where you're in the startup phase of your business and you're running and running. And now I'm coming out of that and I'm like, I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna work that hard. And most real estate investors don't wanna work that hard. That's why we've done this, you know, and I love to be able to have, figure out, okay, what am I working towards? Why do I want to have this amount of doors? And is it, if for me it's really about the cash flow, that's what I'm working towards, a certain cash flow goal, not the doors. And it's, you know, I've unfollowed a bunch of people on social media just because I have to. Protect my own peace on, because what you take in really does begin to affect what you're thinking and what you believe. And if you're just constantly taking in what people are putting out online, then next thing you know, you're buying all these properties and you're stressed and you're like, wait, why do I even do this? I didn't need to do this. So that's where I am right now. And I do it 5 years after all my kids are gone. Who knows?

I have a funny anecdote on that. So my daughter, I heard her, overheard a conversation. She was talking to friends. Do you know what a door is?

And I was like, oh my God.

And she was like, and then she's like, my mom has asked me what a door is. I'm like, oh my God. She's like listening.

I love it. Oh, they're always listening.

I didn't know what doors were for like years. I didn't know until slowly, I didn't, anyway.

But it's just interesting.

Yeah. So I think that going back to be like, what are my goals? And I do believe I look, I love appreciation. We're in an expensive market. It is a beautiful thing, but, and you can take equity out, but I think we have to sometimes get caught up on doors versus what's your actual net cash flow.

What is it?

I love midterms because I feel like it's the cash flow is amazing sometimes, and that's why I love it. But So do you just sit down and be like, okay, this is my not for the month? We're all trying, we're doing this to be financially free and have time freedom.

Yeah. Yeah. This past year, because I not only have my real estate portfolio, but I have a few different businesses. What I did was I, I got to a place where I recognized I have, from a financial management standpoint, I have taken myself as far as I can go with the knowledge that I have and my portfolio, my assets, my money management is above my expertise. So I need to get help and support in managing this because I wanted to spend more time running the business and not managing the finances. So what I did was I actually hired a fractional CFO, uh, chief financial officer and it's great. Okay. It's, I love it because we have biweekly meetings where one meeting is a review where she, I mean, she catches everything. She watches the money like a hawk. I could have, for example, a couple months ago, we were reviewing our, we were doing our biweekly review and she said, okay, it looks like your property management company charged you a leasing fee. But I didn't notice that there was a new lease, that one of the new baking units was leased. And I was like, because it wasn't. And then she was able to catch that so that we were able to get that reimbursed. And I was like, $500, that's basically what I'm— a big part of how much I'm paying her. And so by being able to hire an expert to really focus on that and really hone in, that's what she does. And then basically we review it on a biweekly basis. So one meeting is a review and the other meeting is strategy. So then that's what we're talking like. I had, I have one property that has been vacant for 30 days and it really hasn't had many showings and we're trying to figure out what we need to do to hurry up and get the unit filled. And so through that strategy call, we determined, okay, I shut down this Airbnb. So I have this extra furniture and it looks in that location of that property. Is going to be really good. I knew we were going to originally do long-term rental, but what if we just pivot to midterm? And so we make those decisions much more quickly because we're watching the finances on a regular basis versus waiting 3 months and now you miss out on all this cash flow to make a decision. So I actually, so for me, delegating, getting to the place where I need to delegate the finance, the day-to-day financial management, and then bringing on an expert to advise me has been a game changer personally for me. And I've applied that same concept in other areas of my life, especially because I'm a multi-passionate person. I also homeschool my kids. I can't get caught up in trying to do all the things because when you say yes to something, you're saying no to something else. And so I could still have primary control and full control over the finances. Like I'm the only one that's on the bank accounts. I'm the only one that can authorize credit card payments and things like that. But I can still provide direction for a team to be able to manage it. And so whether that's my CFO or that's hiring out laundry service or Instacart, I am delegation queen. Okay. I want to just do what I want to do. Back to the original why.

Yeah. God, that's such a smart— because you just, you get what you need and you're outsourcing. I heard someone say, don't outsource your genius, right? Focus on what that good at, right?

Yeah. My genius is analyzing deals and finding properties and coaching my clients. That's my genius. That's what I love. That gives me energy, gets me excited. Being curious with my kids. Traveling, that is what gets me excited. Not, oh my gosh, pulling up a spreadsheet, looking at my bank account, trying to diagnose every single transaction. Like, that is draining for me. Even checking my email. I have a VA that checks my email. That is draining for me. I don't want to do any of that.

It's interesting. I think as entrepreneurs, like, we have, we're good at starting things and we It's just, but like having good systems and having that team, which you've clearly done, because I know I have shiny eyes. Like you mentioned staging, people are asking me to stage. I'm like, sure. I'm like, wait a minute. Is that really a good use of my time?

And we're helpful too. So we want to say yes to things.

So yeah, it's really, it's an interesting, so I, gosh, there's so many ways to go. If, how are you structuring your team? I'm really curious. It's clearly you have, you've really. Yeah, dial that in.

No, it's really good. So I look at, because so I can break down what I give my time to and then how the team is structured. And it's good because I'm actually, because I'm pivoting to, again, like I mentioned, scaling a little bit because I want to have more margin for kids and all that kind of stuff. I'm actually reorganizing my team, but it's still the same foundation. Essentially, I have a real estate team called Strive Real Estate. I'm a co-founder of a brokerage, so that's Essentially look at it like a department. So that's one department is my team of real estate agents. Then I have the online education is that community is called Owning and Living It Community, and that's where I have the mastermind and the conference and that brand. And then I have my real estate portfolio. So essentially I look at it like 3 departments and I have a team, a small team of folks that help me to manage all 3 departments. So I have my fractional CFO that helps to manage the finances for all 3 departments. I have a virtual administrative assistant that helps with scheduling and makes sure I'm not double booking and sending out calendars and check emails, that kind of thing. I have an ops person that helps to coordinate with vendors and, and she really makes sure that If I'm teaching a, a course, making sure that payment link works and making sure we're getting the assets back from the graphic designer and scheduling the stuff on the project management system. Like she helps to keep everyone together. And then I have, I'm bringing on a fractional marketing, Chief Marketing fractional person. So, and that person is going to be able to say, cuz I love my, I have a podcast and I love, I, I put out a bunch of content. But when it comes to the posting and all that kind of stuff, I'm like, can you just repurpose? It's draining for me to do that. And so the, the CMO, the fractional CMO will be able to take the content that I do make and repurpose and put it out in the world, all that. And I, and my son, one of my sons is my social media manager. So he actually schedules all the content. I have another son that has a media company, and so he films a bunch of my videos.

I love that.

He is a, he loves to cook and he basically meal preps all my meals for us. And he has a meal prepping service, so it's not just me, but, and he preps all the meals for the week. So it's really a whole family business up in here.

I love that. Can I ask how old they are? Because that's really entrepreneurial.

That's awesome. So my oldest is my social media manager. He's 16. My middle son, which is the chef, he is 14. And my youngest, which is the camera guy, he is 13. Damn, kudos. And the younger two homeschool. The older son just went back to school full-time.

Yeah. Yeah. So growing up, my parents were entrepreneurs and it was my model, but I didn't get started till I was older, but I hope my kids are entrepreneurs, but Was it an organic thing or did they just show? Okay.

It was an organic thing and it was an organic and cuz just they would pick up different things. Their first business was selling comics. They used to draw and sell comics at church and they would hassle people to buy them, which is funny to me. They'll like text them, just making sure that you're, you wanna bring that 10 cents at church today. It was like not a lot of money, but it was funny.

Right.

So some of it is them being exposed to it, and then if we have affirmed them a lot. And so by receiving the affirmation of what they've done well, that's encouraged them to continue to pursue their entrepreneur efforts. Okay.

Got it. I love that. That's sales though, right?

That's really— Oh yeah. My middle son, he is fully a salesperson. He is. Salesperson. He is persistent. He is clear. You don't have to wake him up in the morning. He does it on his own. He is, yes, he's going to do something in sales. I don't know what, but he will definitely get you a person.

Oh, I love that. Yeah. And my kids, I drag them around and I pay them, but I want them to under— it is family business. I want them to understand like this is the value of it. Yeah. Because I just believe I'm just so passionate about real estate. Oh, there's so many.

I love that.

So I have a, this is a little bit of a twist here, but I have a soapbox about buy and hold. And I think a lot of times we are taught these like quick wholesaling, flipping over things, but like holding the asset, that's where the wealth building comes in.

Yes, I agree. It is. And you have those ways where you can flip a property or wholesale it. There's a place for that, but the true wealth comes from buying and holding, whether it's from the, your tax advantages, from an equity perspective, from a long-term cash flow perspective, from paying down the property, the principal and interest. True wealth building def— absolutely comes from the buy and hold strategy. And so that is my primary strategy, even though I do some of the other things. I am a buy and hold investor. That's where the true wealth is.

For sure. I want to ask you, like, clearly you built this portfolio. Looking back, would you give yourself any advice on the buy and hold level? Or I'm just curious what you tell yourself.

Oh, I would so many things. So what the first property I bought. Was our first, our first home that we purchased, renovated, lived in, and house hacked. We bought that property for $20,000 in Atlanta, Georgia. It was 2011. So we were during the recovery phase of the market. So the Great Recession had took place and we were getting to a place where You know, we were seeing less foreclosures, but people were still very nervous about real estate. And so if I could go back, instead of just being grateful for the one property that I had, I would have taken the extra step to figure out how can I buy more of these instead of just being like, oh, I'm just grateful for the one I got. People like, no, how can you push yourself to figure out how you can buy more of these? So yeah, and then eventually we got to the place our second property was $60,000 and it was a few years later. And even that I was just, oh, I'm so grateful to have one investment property. And so I would have, I think that in order for me to have that type of mindset, I would have one, had to surround myself with investors. I would have also. Needed to see the value in investing in education and not just relying on books and podcasts because you don't know what you don't know. And so I believe that those two things could have exposed me to the knowledge I have now much sooner, which ultimately, if I had 10 properties that I bought for $20,000, I would, it would be crazy. We probably wouldn't be talking right now because I would probably be off the internet. Living my life in France. And I think that's, yeah, it's really important. I was, oh, what was I trying to say? Something. It was so, it'll come back to me, but yeah, it was, oh, that's what it was. I have a client who, and I knew her for a long, from a long time ago, from a mutual friend. She, in 2008, she bought 2 properties for $5,000. And those properties, $5,000, and these are not tear-down homes. They're again in, in, in Atlanta. They were homes that were foreclosed on, but they were livable homes. She bought 2 homes and she rented them out on Section 8. So then she started immediately creating, making income. And now just those 2 homes are worth over $325,000. Each, just those two. So it reminds me of why, while everyone else was having a hard time and in financial strain, there are a group of people who are, who see the challenge as an opportunity. And so that challenged me to always, even now, where people were, every, everywhere we hear is recession, inflation, I purpose challenge myself and my clients, how can we, what are the opportunities that's right now? Okay, sure. We have challenges. I'm not going to disregard that they aren't there, but where are the opportunities? Because hindsight is 20/20. We always look back and talk about what we should have done instead of being able to pause and look to see what opportunities are available right now.

Mic drop.

It's so true. It's so true.

And the price that my first house was like $210,000 and it felt like a million dollars. Right. And it was a bidding war and I was like, oh wait, and now I look back, I'm like, there was— thank you for just reiterating that. Cause I think there is a ton of opportunity and when you're looking for opportunity, you're going to find it. Right. Hey there, savvy investor. Quick question. Are you ready to jump into midterm rentals, but not sure where to start?

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All right, back to the show.

But I love the education piece and I've thought about this because I've invested, I'm a coach, I've spent a lot of money and I think it's so valuable. And I think there's, there are a lot of gurus, but finding a coach that resonates, I think it gets you to that next level. I know you have a conference coming up. I'd love to hear your why on that. And just, it's so important, right?

It is. It's really important. It's so important. Like I get, I get questions like, how do I find a coach in this sea of online gurus? And if you don't know someone personally that has actually signed up with a coach and has had a good experience, if that's not your scenario and you're starting from scratch, You just follow people that you connect with, whether you connect with their story, where they're from, how they invest. And then from there, you, you follow them. Maybe you join their email newsletter. Maybe they have a low-ticket class or offer that they, that they are providing. You sign up for that and you just be, you date them essentially. You date them and you get to know them and you ask questions and You look online on Google, it's all the things. And, uh, until you get to a place where you're like, okay, this person is for me. And not only that, I see other people who have also connected with them as well and have gotten success. And then you pull the trigger and you— it's a risk. What we do is a risk. Sometimes it will work out beautifully and sometimes it won't. And I've had lots of clients that end up coming to me after sign up for something else that didn't work out, but don't stop there. You will eventually find your people, your person, and be able to thrive. And a big reason of why I decided to host a conference is for that reason. I would attend other conferences, um, with, again, I don't, I love white men. One of my, uh, mentors, a couple of my mentors are white men, so I'm no shade to the white men. Okay. But they have a head start. I've attended lots of conferences where the majority of people are white men and I, and it's been great. I've learned a lot, but I haven't, you, I'm, I am not able to, I haven't found that I've been able to really show up in those places and be able to see myself through the speakers or be able to connect further. Offline to build relationships. I, I find that in, in some situations there just may not be as a natural connection as it is with someone who may have been through some of the same challenges that I have. And so a big part of my conference, the Owning Your Living Experience, is to provide a space for people of color in the real estate industry. And not only just people of color, because we have We do have white speakers. We have white people come, all types of people coming, but it's really to provide a diverse environment of people who are interested in real estate, hearing from a group of different diverse people. We don't just have two Black women or one Asian woman. We have a beautiful rainbow of a lot of different speakers that are experts in the industry, powerhouses. In the industry that also, like me, believe in not gatekeeping, believe in really giving tangible, real-time advice, that really believe in seeing people win, and we feel called to share in this way. And also, I've been in, I've been in rooms where my culture isn't recognized or reflected, and that also can present to be a barrier in the information that I'm receiving. And so when at this conference, not only are you gonna be hearing from the best of the best in real estate, but you're also gonna hear your, you know, the, the favorite song that you and your grandmother dance to. And you're gonna be able, and we're gonna blend all that together to create this really fun, also safe environment that will just be a really good reset for people and a, a really good retreat to get excited about real estate. Another kind of big thing is what I found a lot of myself and my friends, we are the only ones in our family talking about this. We're the only ones in our family pursuing this. And sometimes that can be very lonely. It could be defeating, but I'm basically bringing these types of people together in one place so that they can meet other people like them, and then that can help them to develop the endurance to keep going. Whenever it gets really hard. And, you know, there's just, there's other topics too that, that we talk about that are not talked about other places. Like I just had a retreat with, um, my mastermind and we talked about setting boundaries and how boundaries are, how boundaries, setting boundaries influence our real estate investing. A lot of us as people of color, we are grateful for the sacrifices that our previous generations have made for us to be able to be in the place that we are. So a lot of us actually struggle with what we call survivor's guilt. And so it's this feel, it's this feeling that we want to pull all of our family members with us, but if they don't want to come, then we, we need to have boundaries to where it doesn't begin hurting us. And so these are things that white men don't necessarily relate to, so they're not going to be able to speak to in that These spaces create those environments to be able to talk to, talk to some of those things, or a woman having a conversation with a contractor. How do I have a conversation with a contractor in a firm way without coming off rude or without being too nice? Or these are things that we actually talk about, that we practice, that we, that just aren't done in certain environments.

Yeah, no, and I think, yeah, all of that. And I think there is an energy and there's, I don't wanna say nerding out, but connect, that connection. That's me just cuz if you love real estate, you, not everyone.

Yes.

So that's, and I love that it's so holistic from what you're telling me. And really that's, yeah, that's kudos cuz I'm sure it's a lot of work to put that together.

It is. It's a whole lot of work. A second guess multiple times.

I, I thought, that's funny. And I know we have to wrap up, but I don't wanna sound like a little weird, but there is a calling when you wanna share what you know. And I, it's, I can't explain it.

I don't know if you feel the same way, but for me, that's what, that's why I do this. Oh yes. Oh yes. From the beginning, from the beginning when I first started learning, I would just tell my friends like, oh my gosh, here's what I learned today. Did you know this? And they'll be like, oh my gosh, literally. And that's actually how I got into coaching. I didn't get into coaching because I wanted to start a coaching business. I got into coaching because I had so many friends that wanted to learn how to invest and a part of just being efficient. I can't talk to 30 people one-on-one in one month. And so I started a program to be able to teach my friends all my knowledge.

Yeah.

That's like, yeah, I agree. I'm always, I get so excited when I learn something new and I'm excited to share.

I love that. Yeah. Amazing. All right. So I have a couple wrap-up questions. If you hopefully will, if we go over, we'll stop, but top business or life advice to give someone to live life on their own terms.

Oh, that's really good. Okay. So top advice to give to someone who is interested in living life on their own terms. I would say to pivot from thinking about things short-term to consider Sometimes there are short-term sacrifices that if you make them, they can really set you up long-term in a better position. So that's a pretty big pivot if you are a person who truly desire to be able to own your own time, to begin transitioning to think that way.

I love that. Okay. I know we're, I'm going to, I have more questions. Let's just, how can people reach you, check out your conference? I know you have to run, so I— Oh, you're good.

I have time for one more question. That's fine.

Okay. Okay, cool. Um, trying to think of the best one. So I added a new one and it's a little bit, what do you think your most valuable asset is? Life, family, business?

Oh yeah. Uh, this is easy. I think my zone of genius are my most valuable asset. Is seeing things in other people that they don't see in themselves. And that can be good and bad, because sometimes I've had to learn that, okay, if they don't want to do this, I need to let them be. But I do have a superpower of really helping to dig out the treasures in people and help them to see what their options are and what their gifts are. And that's a really special superpower that I've been able to use, whether it's I'm helping someone buy a house or now transitioning to coaching and working with clients.

I love— that's actually one of my other questions.

So you combine them brilliantly.

Last one is really like a resource you recommend. Feel free to do a promo on your event. Just how can someone reach out to you? How about your program? Anything you want to share?

So a resource I recommend that people love, love, love. One, definitely check out my podcast, Wealth Within Reach. I talk about what it's like to build wealth in a different kind of way. And if you enjoyed this conversation, this is basically a lot of what I talk about on the podcast is just how can we talk about wealth in a different way, in a holistic way. So definitely I would say that's one resource. And the other is on my website, owningitandlivingit.com. I have a resource section. And essentially it's a library of free resources. And one of the workshops that I have that's available for free, it's called Starting from Scratch. So if you're here and you're excited to figure out what you need to do next, you can listen to that workshop. And I'm just, just a really casual workshop where I'm saying, you know, here's what I would do if I would start over from scratch. And so yeah, download that and let me know what you think. And also follow me on Instagram. That's where I live the majority of my life. And it's, uh, Erika Brown Investor, and it's Erika with a K Brown Investor. And I'm hosting a conference November 1st through 3rd in Atlanta, Georgia called the Owning and Living Experience. And all of the information is the link of on my bio on my Instagram. Page.

Amazing. Everyone should check out all that stuff. That is very generous. This has been so much fun.

Look, it has been.

Thanks for coming on. It's been a pleasure. And yeah, just keep up the, what you're doing. I love your mission and so much. Yeah, it's really, it was fun.

Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's fun. I could talk about this all day.