Unlocking Financial Freedom: Lessons from a Real Estate Entrepreneur (tips on mindset)

You can swipe my copy here. We buy fixer-uppers and it's so clear and it's so simple. Yeah. And the reason that I love that is because everybody knows what a fixer-upper is.

Right.

And that's usually how I would introduce myself unless I'm talking to another real estate investor, is I would say, oh, we buy fixer-uppers. And people are like, and now they know how to think of a referral for me now. Cause mom said she's got a neighbor who's—

Welcome to the She's Got Assets Real Estate Investing Podcast. I'm the host, Shona Lépez. Follow along as we unpack and demystify real estate investment strategies through expert interviews and personal experience. From how to find off-market deals to creative financing to long-term and midterm rentals, we aim to educate and inspire others to gain financial freedom and generational wealth through real estate. And as always, please subscribe so you never miss an episode. We really appreciate reviews. It helps others find us and just helps us get found. Welcome everyone. I'm the host Shona Leppis here, this year on the She's Got Assets podcast. I have a really special guest today, Andrea Engstrom. I'm gonna do a little intro, um, just about how we met. And just by the way, Andrea is a bona fide rockstar. She looks like one. I've seen her MC events. She totally killed it. She pretty much does anything she puts her mind to, I think. So we met a couple years ago in a women's real estate investment network, and Andrea like really stood out on the calls as like a real go-getter, she like instantly got tons of deals and referrals. So I'll do a quick bio and then Andrea, you can kind of give us your, how you got to where you are and your involvement in real estate. So Andrea has over a decade experience as a coach. She's helped thousands of entrepreneurs build businesses on their own terms. I love that. Leveraging relationships to get massive results. She has grown multiple 7-figure businesses, including a branding and digital agency, real estate investing company, and coaching firm. So welcome, Andrea. Thanks. So much for joining me.

Oh, Shawna, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here and, uh, I love talking. Anytime we get to talk, I always leave those conversations feeling encouraged and inspired and, um, hopefully being able to provide a ton of value too.

Uh, def same. Yeah, you've always stood out with great energy, just really positive. So yeah, you have a really great story. I know it's long, but I think it's really inspiring. Oftentimes we hear podcasts and it's, oh, I've just done all these deals and it was just easy. It's, it's twisty, right? It's, yeah.

So when it comes to real estate, I, before 3 years ago, I had never really done anything with real estate. I had built a branding agency. I built multiple businesses and had a career path and my husband and I had bought a fixer-upper as our first house. But don't we all? Like, like you buy what you can afford and then, but fixing up that house about, oh gosh, it was maybe 13, 12 or 13 years ago when we bought that house and fixed it up. We were both working full-time jobs and we would work 40 hours and then we would work 40 hours a week on our house. 'Cause it was, there was, it was one of those oldies but goodies, good bones, 6 layers of wallpaper in the dining room. The floors were awful. It had green carpet, the kind. Totally. And yeah. And so we put so much love and elbow grease and it was really from a place of this is what we can afford. Like we were pretty broke at the time trying to, trying to get outta debt. So we were on a shoestring budget for the whole project. Bought the Home Depot cabinets, installed 'em ourself. It was on walls that were not level and it looked like there was a washer and dryer stacked in the kitchen next to the cabinets. It was like, we do what we can with what we've got. And we made a little bit of money when we sold that house later, but it was really that experience that allowed us to know that we could work together. And, and after that we ended up building businesses together. We're like, If we can get through a home renovation project doing most of the work ourselves, then we can probably work together. And, and we figured out we really enjoyed that. And so fast forward a decade and we had built up an ad agency and a film production company. My husband was a film, film producer and director, and we sold our agency and we made enough money from the sale of that business to be able to pay off some debt from the business and just had a little bit in the bank. And when I say a little bit, $30,000. Some people are like, oh wow, you sell a multiple million dollar in sale business, you're gonna get millions of dollars. It doesn't work that way.

Mm-hmm.

Y'all, like, it doesn't always work that way. This was in the middle of COVID and we were really excited to sell the business because the world had changed and, and building a business with 30 team members and over 100 clients was pretty stressful. Building that business was stressful. And we looked up one day in the middle of COVID and said, this isn't fun anymore. And the reasons that we started in the first place were not like our life did not look like we thought it would look when we got to that point. And it was, it had taken a toll on our marriage and our, our life and our family. And so we had an offer to sell that business and we jumped on it. And so then we just had a little bit of money in the bank and we said, what are we going to do now? And, and I saw a little class on real estate investing and, and actually part of what we did right after we sold the business was we bought an RV. We're like, maybe we're RV people. Maybe we should like live out in KOAs for the, and work remotely and figure that piece out. And on the way, we, so we took a little trip to South Padre Island for 11 days in our RV, had a great time, but on the way back we listened to a BiggerPockets podcast. And it was a story about this woman who, she was a single mom and she started flipping houses. And I listened to that and I said, if she can do it, I can do it. I've been a single mom and I know how hard that is. And she inspired me so much. She said, if I said, if she can do it, I can do it. And then I got an ad for a masterclass on real estate investing. And we just, we decided to be all in. And so in, during the week of that 7-day masterclass, I got 3 properties under contract. Like I had 3 deals happening and, and I think 2 were actually under contract by, by during that. And then the, the, the next one was within a couple weeks after that, but we were working on the deal. And, um, so 3 properties in my first 30 days and within our first 6 months we had 10 Properties under contract and, um, 7 of those 10 were from referrals and networking. And so people are like, what did you do to market? How did you get those deals? And so for me, what has, what I've learned in growing other businesses over the years, even though I had an ad agency, Shona, and you've got some of that in your background too.

Same. Yeah.

Advertising is great. Branding is important. But what really makes business go round is relationships. And so I used what I knew about networking and building relationships, and I started reaching out to people who I knew were doing something in real estate in my area. And I, before I ever even had a name for my business, I was like, I'm a real estate investor. I would love to meet with you and hear about how you got your deals or hear how you work with other investors and, and see if there's any— I'm meeting with lots of investors. I'm gonna be talking to lots of homeowners. I would love to know how to refer you best. And they're like, sure, come on in, let's talk. And that's how I got my first deals is they were like, hey, I think I might know of a, I know of a house that, that you might wanna look at. 'Cause I was like, I'm looking for fixer-uppers. And so I just started telling people about what I was doing, even though I had no clue what I was doing.

That, oh my God. Oh, there's so much to unpack there. And I remember being on the calls and like, Andrea's just killing it. Like, where are all these deals? Everyone was just like flailing around and okay. So you said something that I really want to unpack. You said, I decided I was a real estate investor and that to say that with a straight face took me, I don't know, years and to own it and be like confident. And to make that transition, I think is so important in our journey when we're, if we're getting into real estate. So I'd love for you to speak to that, owning that and how that got you that business.

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm a big believer in the idea of we make a decision and we decide the, the most important thing is deciding who you're going to be. Who am I gonna show up as? And then. Saying it out loud and showing up as her. And it's not an easy thing, but it's simple, but it's not easy, right? Some things that— some things are simple, but they're not easy. So deciding what— who I was going to show up as, because what I explained was that, like, that I was having an identity shift. And the identity shift is, for most of us, that is the most important part. When you start a new venture, when you— is to decide who you're going to be. And it's pointing back to that. There's a part in Atomic Habits by James Clear. There's a very big difference between saying, I'm going to start running, to saying, I am a runner. Taking action or saying, I'm going to take this action every day until it— till I someday can get the guts to say I'm a runner. But the identity piece is what drives the action. And I think that too often we wait for people, we wait for the action that we're taking to drive the identity and we're getting it backwards. The identity is what drives the action, not the other way around. And so one of the things that I did when I, when I decided to be a real estate investor is I started saying it out loud, even though it wasn't really true yet. It's true because I was taking action as— that's the key, is we take action as if once we have adopted that identity. The identity comes first, and then we take action as if we are already her.

It's so true. You really have to own that. I know it's be, do, have, right? You can't— yeah. And you— it took me though, I was a long time to own that and say it. I think that's really wise advice.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I, the other thing I love about real estate is whatever your background is, like you can bring that to real estate, like relationship building, all of that stuff. And I think it's also a very male-dominated industry and as women we have a lot of advantages and, um, but it's also a little scarier to say that and play with the, the men in the industry.

Yeah, I love that you just said that it's a male-dominated industry, but as women we have advantages because most people would end that sentence in a different way entirely. They would say it's a male-dominated industry and so we have a disadvantage, but I, I love that you just flipped that around because I, and I think you're absolutely right. There are strengths that we have as women that make us more able to do things, especially because it is a relationship-based business. And the thing I know about most women is that we're great at relationships. It's what the majority of our life has been focused on is taking good care of people, making sure everybody around us has what they need, listening. All of those skills that we've developed throughout the course of our life, some of them naturally, some of them by necessity, has prepared, have prepared us for this moment. I think a lot of. A lot of women, especially women who come from different types of backgrounds that are not associated with real estate or that have a clear connection to real estate, and this goes back to the identity, they'll say, I'm just a nurse, I'm just a teacher, I'm just a mom. Mm-hmm. And I love to help women to connect the dots and say, okay, what about you as a What about you as a mom or a nurse or a teacher or working, whatever, military, whatever it has been? What have you, what about that career path or your life experience has prepared you for this moment for you to step into that next identity? And so what I know about you, if you're a nurse, is that you care about helping people. Right. And so we can take that and make a bridge and say, because you care about helping people, you're going to be great at helping people in challenging financial situations with their house. You're going to be able to get, help people solve problems. You're going to be able to communicate with people who are, have lost a loved one and now they need to sell that house or are navigating, transitioning mom to a care home and now they need to sell that house. There's so many things that. That can be the bridge between what you've been doing and what you're going to do next. But, but in our mind, we're like, I'm just that. And I love to— I love hearing that because I'm like, oh no, no, girl, you're not just in anything. You are who you choose to be. And let's find some connections between where you have been and where you're going.

No, definitely, because I think all it is, it's a people business. You have to connect, and people want to do business they want to know, can trust, right? The old adage. But I think, and this my coach Greg Pinho is really, well, mindset is such a big part of this. You really have to believe that you're an investor, that there are deals out there. We both are in expensive markets. Yeah. It's so important. And I think it's really easy to overlook the whole mindset piece and believing in the abundance mentality. Yeah. So it's a really big topic, but I think that belief and just owning who, owning that title, right? And leveraging what you have with that. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Yeah. So owning the, owning the title of real estate investor.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. If you're taking action the way that a real estate investor does, then you're a real estate investor. Even if you don't have a deal yet.

Mm-hmm.

Even if you don't have a deal yet, you are taking action as if, and one of the things that I, my brand, my background is in branding. And one of the reasons that I encourage women to create a brand when they're starting a business is because it makes it feel real. It, yeah, it makes it feel real. It makes me proud to introduce myself and to give you my business card and to, and, and I do think that people will do their homework on you. If you call someone and say, hey, I'm with this company, they're often going to look you up. And so to have a website. And to be a legitimate company. It's just that it's a validation piece. It doesn't get you a deal necessarily, but it gives people confidence. But the most important confidence it gives you is the confidence to put yourself out there and introduce yourself. 'Cause you're like, I'm legit. I'm legit. I don't have a deal yet, but I am in process of, I've got a business. This is a real thing. And so I think. That piece of taking action as if. But the other thing that I wanna call people to accountability on is that you don't have to wait until everything is perfect.

Mm-hmm.

In your business in order to share with people what you're doing. One of the first deals that I got in that first week that I decided to be a real estate investor was I had called property management company that I, I had an, they were I had some kind of relationship with the owners. They knew me and I was like, guess what? I'm getting into real estate investing. I'm gonna be buying rental properties. Can I come speak to you and hear about how you do business so that I can see if it's something that we can work, that we could work together in the future? And I'm talking to a lot of other investors. I'd love to know how to refer you best. And they were like, absolutely, come in. And, and so I met with the property management company owner. And I asked, I used that opportunity to ask them questions like, where do you find your deals? How are you financing your deals? Because I knew that the owner had 25 rental properties. He has more than that now, but 25 rental properties. And I was like, that's who I need to be talking to. Somebody who's already done what I want to do. And so he introduced, that's how I found my banker. I, they became my property management company, but I also said, where do you find your deals? And he said, I've been working with this wholesaler. He's actually down the hall. Do you want me to introduce you? I was like, yeah. And he brought, he came in and he told, I was like, I'm looking for a fixer-upper. Here's the areas that I like to buy in and that I like to buy in as if I'm already doing it, right? Here's where I'd like to be. Here's what I'm looking for. And he's like, I think I have one. Like, why don't you come see it on Saturday? And I did my homework. I ran the comps, I figured out the calc— the offer and, and it happened to be like they were, I don't know if they undervalued it just a little bit or I mean the house was rough. Somebody had gutted parts of it and was renovating and then walked away kind of deal where it's real hard to, most buyers can't see past holes in ceilings and walls and stuff. So he priced it accordingly. But for me, for us it was a 70-cent deal. And it worked out even though it was from a wholesaler, which doesn't often happen, right?

Mm-hmm.

It doesn't often happen, but we did our homework and it was, if in, if I had waited a couple weeks until I felt ready, until I felt like I had my, all my ducks in a row to be able to, I would've missed that deal. And that's one of our favorite rental properties now. It was a, it turned out gorgeous. And that, being willing to take action makes it happen faster. Being willing to step in confidence and introduce yourself and adopt that identity as if, because if I had just stayed back and went in learning mode for a year, I would not have gotten that deal. I wouldn't have gotten the next 9 deals after that. Right. And when you take action as if, the thing, the identity happens faster, like the true, the The true identity happens even faster where you're actually doing the thing that you really want to be doing. But if you're out there making offers and you're marketing and you're doing the research and building the business and all the things, even if you don't have a deal yet, like you're taking action as if, and nobody starts a, nobody starts any kind of business and gets clients or gets things going if they don't tell somebody what they're doing. And that's no different for real estate.

That is so true. I think that's a theme I see a lot is taking massive imperfect action. My, my current deal, I had them on a to-do list and they had been talking to someone else and I called them just in time, but I was procrastinating.

Yeah.

And I, I think that it's a little bit of a muscle that you have to practice it and feel comfortable. And if you just, because when that great deal comes along or that great relationship, if you haven't been practicing, you're going to be real awkward. Yeah.

Yeah. Show up, uh, do the, I think putting in the reps, like what you're talking about is practicing.

Mm-hmm.

And what's cool is you can put in reps without, you can put in some reps without feeling like you're falling on your face. And one of the things that I encourage my students to do is to practice with a script and get, like, I'm a big fan of systems and processes in business. And that's a real funny thing for me to say today because I, I, I have a rebellious spirit to me a little bit. And like, I never wanted to clean my room when I was a kid. Like, no, I like it messy. Mom, don't tell me to clean my room. I don't wanna follow the rules. And I, and as a little kid, I was a rule follower, but as I got older, I got so, and part of it is my parents were so conservative. Like I had a lot of rules in the house growing up. So as I got older, I was like, no rules. And, but as a, as a business person, systems and processes and putting some plans and rules and some rules or parameters in place are actually really helpful. They build confidence. And so there are scripts that I use when I go and talk to someone about referrals, when I reach out about a deal, when I'm talking to people like, I give myself some systems and practice. We, we can practice before we get started. And one of the things that I did to develop some of that muscle was I practiced like running comps and calculating offers, uh, before I got in front of somebody that I had to make an offer to. And so y'all know I was doing deals within 7 days. So what I mean by that is I spent a couple days running 20 different, 20 different offers, 20 different comps before I actually made an offer on one. Like I was practicing and some people will take a whole year to practice before they ever actually talk to someone. And there's this concept called urgency and frequency. And so if, so you could say, okay, I want to do at least 20 practice offers before I make an actual offer. And people will spread that over 20 weeks, right? Mm-hmm. Because they'll find something, they'll do a practice run, they'll pull comps, they'll calculate the offer, they'll do the, the research, whatever. And so you can do, you can do one a week for 20 weeks, or you can do 20 practice offers in 2 days.

Mm-hmm.

And that's the urgency and frequency. And for me, like I had such an urgency. To make my, to make this business successful because I had made a decision and I wanted to do this thing. I wanted it for this to be like what we did as a family, and I could see a vision for how this would absolutely change our lives. And so for me, that made it urgent and important, and I had to get started right away. And so when I say take action as if, I don't mean take unprepared action. I just mean have the urgency and frequency to put in your reps. Write yourself— if you don't know what to say, write yourself a script, say it out loud a couple times, and then pick up the phone. Be ready. Get ready. If you're not ready, get ready.

Yeah. And I think, again, it builds that you have the script and then you can go more organically because it just becomes more natural. Um, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I do think I'm the same way. I'm like a very independent spirit and my office is really messy, but I think the systems and SOPs and processes actually gives you more freedom, right?

Yeah.

Because you have things in place and you have guidelines. So I think that's the flip side of it's really important.

Yeah.

So yeah, and there's so many things to unpack. I, I really think I love the fact that we both have branding and marketing, and I think that's really important. It's part of— it does build that identity. So like, how do you build— I think authentic is a bit of a buzzword, but that's what resonates with me and like an authentic brand that feels right to you and that gets you referrals. And that, I think that's a really important thing that people just go find a logo and they find a name, but they don't really own it. Hmm.

Yeah. No, I love that question. So I teach a workshop called Brand Bootcamp. That's for all different kinds of entrepreneurs, not just for real estate. But one of the things that we really hone in on is build— how do you approach that with authenticity? And part of that is knowing your story connected to why you're doing what you're doing, identifying what your values are, and also what's true about you that's gonna resonate with your target audience. And so thinking about, and so we go through exercises, but thinking about what are the qualities that are my values, because values attract. I want to communicate values in my business or to portray values that are aligned with how I want to show up and do business. And that, and also I want to attract partners, team members, clients, or people to do a deal with that are aligned with those values as well. And so to make sure that, because, because a brand is not just a logo, it's how we talk about what we do. It's the imagery that we use. It's our story connected to why we're doing this. And so helping people to identify their, their authentic story of, I used to be a nurse and now I'm doing this because I care about people. And that's a values communication, right? Because I care about helping people, now I'm doing this business, right? And so help— so helping people to identify what's that bridge, like we talked about earlier, that can help them feel authentic in what they're doing in their next chapter and that will resonate with other people. And I think you're— there's a couple things when it comes to branding that, like naming your business or having a logo and stuff. And for me, like we talked about earlier the difference between easy versus simple, and I'm such a fan of simple when it comes to branding. Don't overcomplicate it. And Shona, I love your brand, Cedar and Porch. I think it's so clear and it feels warm and inviting and like it communicates the, like, a lot of the things that, that you want your brand to be portrayed as. But it's also simple. It's easy to spell. There's no like acronym that's what is, what is SL, uh, like what is that? So keeping it simple and clear and, and having a connection to what you're actually doing, I think is some of the simple things, but it's more like how you talk about your brand and what are those key messages. And just as a hint to everybody listening to this, one of the best on whether it's marketing, if you're marketing to people who are, you wanna purchase a property from, one of the best lines that I have, and I'm gonna give it to you, you can swipe my copy here. We buy fixer-uppers. And it's so clear and it's so simple. Right? Yeah. And the reason that I love that is because everybody knows what a fixer-upper is.

Right.

And that's usually how I would introduce myself unless I'm talking to another real estate investor. As I would say, oh, we buy fixer-uppers and people are like, and now they know how to think of a referral for me now. Cause mom said she's got a neighbor who's needs to sell their house. It's a total fixer-upper and they're like, ding, ding. And because of HGTV and all of the reality TV shows, like we all know what a fixer-upper is now. And so being your brand is about how you talk about what you do. And also that's authentic, right? That's just a super simple, clear way to say it. And whatever you do with the property after that, knowing that you can communicate with clarity what it is that you're doing at the heart of it, that's, for me, that's some of the best kind of branding is just a clear, simple communication that's, that feels like authentic language. Yeah. Simple.

That is brilliant. That is the most simple, not as is, no repairs, all cash.

Yeah. Yeah. All those things that get, that make the hair on the back of your neck stand up a little bit. Cause you're like, oh man, they're going to sell me something or I'm going to, I'm going to, I don't want to do something I don't want to do. Yeah. Like any, and I don't mind some of that other language just for clarity, but I think helping people feel comfortable is part for me. That's part of my brand is I want people to, I want to feel approachable. Like people get it, they understand what's going on, and, and that they can trust me. Whatever you can say to make that super, super clear and not overcomplicate it, I think builds trust and feels more real. Talk how people talk.

Yeah, not just, I think we tend to, I just think when you're starting out, we get so caught up in entities and LLCs and names. And I, it's taken me a couple years to sort out all my different brands. I feel like finally I've sorted out my brand tree, but I, it was very confusing cuz I have rentals, I have a buying business, and I have this new coaching business. It's just, but you kind of have to get in there and feel, just, it takes time to evolve, at least for me. But I imagine that being that clear makes you really referable, right? People think, like you said, they know exactly what you do.

You're, yeah.

Even if you don't have a fancy website yet, right?

That's no, yeah, that's exactly it. And, and I don't know if I've ever really gotten any business from my website or didn't get a deal because they didn't like my website or something like that. But it is always, you know, but I have gotten people who referred me and they sent someone a link. Also, we got featured in the paper within the first few months of starting our business as real estate investors. Like, They, because I had a branding agency, I was friends with lots of people from the media. And so when I started posting about what I was doing in real estate, I had a business page with my brand, Hill and Home, uh, Hill and Home Partners. And then I would post on my business page and then share it to my personal page. So all of the local media that I was friends with would see what I was posting. And so then a few months after we got started, they were doing an article on the local real estate market. And they were like, okay, we need a realtor, we need a local investor, we need a banker, like a local lender. And we got to be like, so our picture was on the front page of the, like the Tuesday paper or something, something like that. And it's me and, me and my husband Josiah and our, with our tattoos in the middle of this fixer-upper house that looked like a mess but had great potential. And, and that's the picture they want. That's the good stuff.

Yeah.

But that, because I had a website, it was real easy for them to be able to say, to be able to point to that, the Hill and Home Partners. And so that you're able to connect dots with that. And I did get a lead. I had somebody a month or two later that said, I saw the article in the paper. I need to move. We're moving out of state. In a couple of weeks. I heard that you buy, that you're able to make cash offers because they went to my website and they read that. And my, the article in the paper was our opinion on if this is a good market to flip houses in or not. But they, but because our business name was in there, they went to our website and says, okay, this, you guys, I read your process because I'm really good about putting my process for working with us and it's like, we buy fixer-uppers. Like you come, come, we'll come look at your house and we'll estimate repairs, make you a, an offer. We can usually close within 2 weeks with cash. And they were like, okay, we heard that you can do this. We've gotta move quickly. You wanna come see our house? We're like, yeah, absolutely. And because So because we had our branding in place, because they weren't just quoting a local person, cuz I wasn't gonna put my cell phone number in the paper for anybody who's like curious about this couple to, and so because we were, had a business like that where you could connect dots and somebody could just look up our web, our name of our company and find us online, they reached out and, and we ended up getting that house and flipping it and It was a great deal. And part of that was because we had our ducks in a row. Like we've, we had a website that they could find us on and it was a really clear process. So they knew what to expect if they called us and we delivered on that expectation and helping people know what to expect, I think is one of those. We don't always think of that as branding, but for me, that's a part of it is, is there a clear process for people to work with you? And so how do you talk about that and how do you make it really— because that language that you use communicates things about your values and how you do business and, and the how your brand sounds. And are you going to be, are you going to be cool to work with? And that's part of that authenticity too, is For me, like, I want my brand to be simple. I want it to be so simple and clear how I work with people so that they know what to expect of me. And that's, for me, that's about doing good business. But, but that's also just my preference. Like, I want things to be simple, so I make it simple for others.

But I think it, it, that's what makes you referable and find people. And it's just because the world is complicated. We don't need, and I, something I wanna touch on, I think that I think people are social media, right? It's a big tool. It's also, it needs to be strategic, but I think sharing about what you're up to and how you're helping people. And I think sometimes people are a little bit, sometimes they have jobs, I get that, but it's important to talk about it and how you're helping someone or how you're taking care of your rental. It just shows people that you care. And I think that's, people struggle with that a little bit, I think. Yeah.

So we, Yeah, there are situations where people are like, I don't wanna lose my job. But here's the thing, let me, can I just address that for a second? Because I hear that a lot and I think, and it'll be somebody like in healthcare. Okay. And I keep going back to the nurse example or whatever. I don't, and they're like, I don't want people to think that I'm trying to quit my job as a nurse because I'm looking for fixer-uppers or I'm buying and fixing up properties. I don't wanna lose my job that I have today. But here's the deal. Do you know who like one of the largest categories of real estate investors are? Doctors, they're work— the people that they work with, the people they work for. And nobody— if a doctor posted something about, hey, check out my latest short-term rental, nobody's going to be like, oh, is he trying to quit his day job as a doctor? No, no. Like, people are like, high five. Like, he— that's a really cool thing to do. And if you were investing in cryptocurrency and you told somebody, people wouldn't be like, oh, are you trying to quit your job? No, it's investing. It's investing. And so I think sometimes we, we work ourselves up into thinking that other people are going to think that we're doing something that is moonlighting.

Mm-hmm.

And that, but in reality, it all depends on how you talk about it. Okay. Like you're saying that you're an investor, not that you are a renovation, like that you're a renovations company. Right? If you're not trying to do this for other people necessarily, and it all, some people are, but that's different. That's not what we're talking about. If you're looking for a fixer-upper to turn into a midterm rental, don't be afraid to tell people that is what you're looking, that you're looking for this property in order to be able to set up. Because what's, what would be cooler for a nurse to say, I'm looking for a midterm rental. I'm looking for a fixer-upper and I want to turn it into a beautiful midterm rental for traveling nurses. And they'll be like, yeah, we need more of that. That's awesome. Love what you're doing. High five. How can I help you be successful? More likely the response you would get than to say, oh, and you're, you work 3 12-hour shifts and your 4 days a week that you have off, what are you doing? When do you think you're gonna have time to manage painters coming in? No, don't worry about it so much unless you work for somebody crazy, in which case maybe think about that instead. Right? And I wanna tell you, of the 7 referrals, of the 7, uh, deals that I got, so I did 10 deals in my first 6 months, 7 were from referrals. 2 of those were from a coworker from a previous job, like somebody that I knew because they, because we were coworkers, like that's why I knew them. And, and so you, by you holding back, the people in your closest proximity may be your best opportunity for referrals. And you're trying to be all hush because you don't want people to know your business or you, but until we are willing, or on social media, even until we are willing to let other people know what we are doing, we are missing out on opportunities because I don't know about you, but the reason I have social media is to build relationships. And I'm build— I build that circle intentionally, proactively for the purpose of sharing, sharing things that I am working on and that I need help with and that I can reach out, that I'm building a community. And there are some people that have built their community their Facebook based on just close friends and family. And to that, I would also say those are also the people that are most likely to give you a referral. We got referrals from close friends and family also. And so if we don't tell those people that we're close to, or we don't tell those people that we're con— have a web of connection to, then we're— you're missing an oppor— you're missing a huge opportunity. And here's the thing too, is that some people derive such great joy from making connections for other people. They derive such great joy from being able to be a part of someone else's success story. And, and so for you to withhold, you are doing them a disservice by withholding the opportunity to be of service to you. And sometimes I think we have, we wait until we feel like we have something of value to be able to share or to provide others. But the reality is that there are people in your life and in your circles who find value by being helpful to you. That lights them up. It makes them feel— my husband calls it like a very useful engine, a little Thomas the Tank Engine reference. They— but people want to be of service. And for you to, and to be able to change someone's life by saying, I know this person with a challenge. Let me connect you to someone who can help you solve that challenge. And you are the one who can solve the challenge. And they may know someone who needs help and you're not even, you won't say out loud what the, how you help. And that's, it's so sad. So if we think about it that way, we're really being selfish. We're really being selfish when we withhold the information about what it is that we're doing and what we're working on, because it's everything we do in business is to be of service to others. And if we're not, if we're not doing it with that motivation, then we're doing it wrong. But, but if that's truly your motivation, that's for me, that's how I get over that idea of how, what are people going to think if I post this thing? I'm going to stop worrying about what other people are going to think, and I'm going to focus on being of service. How can I show up and be of service and get out of my own way, get out of my own head, and quit thinking about— because when we're worried about what other people think of us, we're actually thinking about ourselves. That makes sense. Yeah, we're thinking, oh, what will they think of me? Stop thinking about yourself and think about how you can help others. And go to the networking event and post it, post on social media and say it out loud. Because if you don't start saying it out loud, then nobody's gonna know. And they may know someone that needs your help that you are able to make an offer, right?

Yeah. You beat me too, cause I was gonna ask you that same thing. I know when I refer someone and they worked out great, it makes me feel good. I'm like, oh, I helped them, right? And I do, I refer very judiciously cuz I wanna know it reflects on me.

Yeah.

I wanna know they're gonna do a good job. And if someone has been a little spotty, I'm not gonna refer them.

Yeah. Whatever. Right.

But it's, oh yeah.

Yeah.

It's a good feeling, right? Cause you're being truthful, I think.

Absolutely. And I think that goes for professional connections as well, especially with professional connections. And so you may think that the professionals that you know already know someone that they could refer someone to, but the reality is they may not know someone they feel really comfortable with, or they may not know someone that they really truly trust. Mm-hmm. Or it may be that they know someone, but that person didn't, they dropped the ball in some way. And so they're actually like looking for someone that they could refer to when it comes to, and we're just talking about like for real estate purposes here, we're just talking about people who are serving homeowners who are already marketing to your ideal connections when it comes to who you would buy a property from. Mm-hmm. Which is what, as a real estate, estate investor, and I think about who's my number one target audience, it's homeowners who need to sell their home and are either in a challenging situation or I can be the easy button. Right?

Mm-hmm.

And so for me, those types of professionals are folks like insurance agents, folks like attorneys. Can I go on a tangent about attorneys for a second?

100%.

Yeah. Okay. This is, okay. So. For those of you who are struggling to figure out where to get referrals and you're like, okay, I don't even know who to talk to. Okay, think about this for just a moment. Most of us have heard that we need to talk to a homeowner in a challenging financial situation. Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Or someone who has a triggering event to sell their property. And then we're co— there, we hear that there's all these types of lists that we can pull. And so the types of lists are, Like people going through foreclosure, people going through a divorce, probate, someone who's lost a loved one and now it's an estate for sale, tired landlords, right? And so if we think about those categories, there is a corresponding attorney to every type of list that you could pull as a real estate investor. Yeah. And so there are Bankruptcy attorneys, there's divorce attorneys or family attorneys, there's probate attorneys, there are real estate attorneys who have almost exclusively have landlords as their clients, right? There are estate attorneys handling like the will, the execution of a will, right? So for all of those different lists we would pull, there's a corresponding attorney. And I had a great conversation with a gal. Not too long ago who told me she did 10 real estate deals from the referrals from one probate attorney in one year. Can you imagine that? If you became, yeah, that, and that is a win-win professional referrals relationship. And the reason she keeps getting referrals is because she knows how to handle a probate situation. She knows how to navigate. Helping in those situations. And so he trusts her and he's not a real estate agent or he's not a, he's not the one that can handle that. He needs to refer them to someone or it serves his clients best if he knows a referral. Right. And, and so when we are willing to proactively develop relationships with the right types of professionals, people who are already meeting with your ideal client or people in a triggering event situation that would cause them to need help transitioning their house, right? That's how we can quickly build, quickly get referrals coming in from people who are already meeting with those clients, not just hoping they know someone, but like they're actively meeting with those and This other, this is like a bonus strategy. Okay. When it comes to referrals from attorneys, I had that, remember that coworker I told you referred like 3, 3 deals to me? I closed 2 of them.

Yeah.

One of, one of the other connections that she made for me was she's like, okay, my girlfriend is a real estate attorney. She handles evictions. I was like, okay, I've never met one of those before. Interesting. And this is when I was really early. It was like my first couple months doing real estate and she set up a meeting with, with me and her and this friend of hers and the real estate attorney that handles evictions. She said to me, she said, if you are willing to buy a property from a tired landlord, someone who is about to have to evict a tenant, nobody wants to do it. She's like, if you are willing to make a cash offer and you just basically subtract the cost of my fees from that offer. So you're not just making a 70-cent offer, you're making a 65-cent offer, whatever it needs to be in order for you to come in. Most people will not buy a house that has a tenant in it that needs to be evicted. But she said, I handle that process every day, Monday through Friday. That is what I do. I'm very good at my job. She said, if you're willing to buy a house in that situation, I can refer an unlimited amount of tenants, of landlords to you. And I was like, oh, that's major. And I never thought of that. I never thought of that. But that's what we do as real estate investors is we solve problems. And so if you're willing to be the one to buy, to buy the house that's been condemned by meth, done that. I don't necessarily recommend it, but done that. If you're willing to buy the house that has a, a tenant in it that needs to be evicted, but you, But it's, it all goes back to this thing. If we're gonna be the ones who can solve the problems, it's not about how we solve that problem. It is who do we know that can help us to navigate that situation? Because I will take on any problem house as long as I know the right who, as long as I can know exactly who to call in order to solve that problem. I don't have to know how to evict a tenant. I just need to know who to call. And she's like, I'm the person you call. And if, and I'm happy to handle the process as long as you work with, I'll refer clients to you as long as you work with me on the part of that I do. And I can even help you with other stuff, but let's make a win here. So isn't that cool? I love that strategy.

That is really, we are really problem solvers and I think that I just, Something you said, I think there's a lot of trust in a referral and they really want, they, they have clients who are just at their wit's end probably. And by them referring someone that's gonna get the job done, it's really building their credibility too, right?

So, oh yeah. Yeah. That's the more connections that you have and to be known as someone who knows people and makes connections for other people, that's one of the most valuable things you can be as a business person and as a partner. So absolutely.

Yeah. I feel like we could go on for hours.

I know. I know, Shona, you're so smart. We can talk about fun things forever.

So I do want to just quickly touch on, I think the value as entrepreneurs, it can feel like we're on an island, right? Especially as investors, right? The value of community and finding your tribe. Because to me, that was a game changer. I know you have Yeah. You have that. So I'd love to just touch on that before we wrap up.

Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the things that is like the fastest way to burn yourself out and the fastest way to feel like you, you don't wanna do the, it's not fun anymore, I don't wanna do this anymore, is to try to do everything on your own. And for me, one of the most powerful things as a woman entrepreneur that, that I've done is create a tribe of other women where like we are not just doing deals together, cuz we do that sometimes. I've had some of my best partnerships come from that, but, but meeting on a regular basis to talk about our business and we talk about life. It's about so much more than that, but to be able to be part of a mastermind group and a community of other women that know you. And I think there's such a desire in our hearts to be known. And when you are an entrepreneur, especially if you look around your local community, you may not find as many people who are doing the kinds of things that you're doing and that are in your proximity. And that was, for me, that was a really key thing, was to realize, oh, I'm not necessarily going to meet the people that are like-minded, who have common goals, moving in the same direction that I am. In my own hometown. Like, I had to go outside of my local area to be able to find those powerful relationships. And for me, that's been a game changer, uh, absolute game changer in staying motivated and encouraged, knowing who to call if I don't know what to do, if I get stuck, or if I need a connection. And I still, every single week, I meet with those groups, I meet with my group of women that are helping me get unstuck and supporting and encouraging each other. So that's game changer. Yeah.

Yeah. That is, that's so important. And I think we forget that sometimes and we think we can do it ourselves. Right. Cause we're, we're moms, we're wives, we're all the, all the hats. Right.

Yeah.

Thank you for that. So a couple questions I like to ask every guest. This is kind of a loaded one, but however you wanna go with that, you've got so much great advice. The top business or life advice you'd give someone to live life on their own terms?

Yeah, so I'm a huge advocate for this life on your own terms idea, and I would say stop caring about what other people think of you and do what you want to do. And over, over the past few years, this is an area I've really been growing in myself and in our family. And part of this is you don't have to live in a paid-for house if you would rather own 10 rental properties, then that you can rent. And this was one of those things like over this past few years, like we've been going back and forth between Kansas and Colorado and we've got houses here, we've got houses there, and I've got a rent, uh, portfolio of rental properties. And to realize like, I can live where I want to live and it is okay to rent because I'd rather have my funds in cash asset and cash-producing properties instead of in something where I'm building a bunch of equity in my own, like real estate's real estate. So if I want my equity to be in across multiple properties that are actually producing income and then that income pays for my rent, cool, do that.

Right.

I don't have to. Do what everybody else is doing. I get to make the rules, like life on your own terms. And I think sometimes we worry about what will other people think of us if we're not driving a certain car, if we're not living in a certain house, if we have to do this, like, what doesn't— like a day job that we hate for a little bit longer. And, and so we are— we put ourselves in a box And one of the things that we did when we decided to get into real estate also was like, I, I literally did this. I peeled off my fake nails because I was in a habit of getting my nails done. And I was like, I got money in the bank. Like I'm going to, I deserve this. I'm going to treat myself. And I literally like that, I think it was that same week, maybe a week after I peeled off my nail, my nails, like my fake nails, my acrylics, y'all. And some people are like, ew, oh no, not the nails. But for me, that was part of my commitment that I didn't have to look a certain way. My husband sold one of his, sold a car. Like we were all in and we didn't care if we were driving an old minivan. We didn't care if we didn't get our nails done. We didn't care if, because we were gonna live life on our terms and we were willing to do whatever it took and not worry about what other people thought. While we did it. And so that's my best advice, to live life on your own terms. Sometimes we have to be willing to sacrifice. Sometimes we— and usually the sacrifice is that we sacrifice caring what other people think of us. That's the sacrifice, truly, is because the only reason I would wear— I like having nails, that's fine, but it was more so people like— and I still don't have nails, you guys see this? I still don't, you, you're watching this video later. I still don't have my name because I'm choosing differently. I still, Shona, I still drive like a 2012 Toyota Sienna because all my money's going to real estate and I, I'm building these, I'm building awesome businesses, but I don't care what people think. I am just doing me. And I, I have a place in Topeka, Kansas, and I have a place in Salida, Colorado, and I don't care. Like if I drive a, a cheap, a cheaper vehicle or an older vehicle because, and I don't get my nails done and I've only had my hair cut twice in 4 years and like I'm doing me. And so the sacrifice is to let go of what other people think of you and do you. Don't worry about what everybody else is doing.

Yeah. Yeah. I, I totally wanna beat her, man. I've been always like at Lowe's last night. Yeah. Just live in the real estate malls following you around, right?

Like, oh yeah. I bought that van because my mom kept loaning it to— my mom had a van and she kept loaning it to us cuz I was staging houses. And finally she was like, do you wanna buy this van? And I was like, yes, I wanna buy the minivan. I'd never owned a minivan. I was like, yes, I wanna buy the minivan. I'm just gonna do it. But we are so freaking happy driving that minivan. It holds all the things. It's great for the kids. It, you can fit a queen-size mattress in it if you gotta stage a house, like it works. So yeah, don't care about what others think. Just do you.

My husband, we've had this ongoing debate. I'm like, over my dead body. But he said the queen-size mattress, that's kind of what he's telling me. It's a big deal.

It's a big deal. Make sure the seats come out cuz you can fit a lot more stuff. Right?

Yeah. I love that. Okay. Next question. What is your superpower?

Yeah. So I think my superpower is to be able to, when I'm talking to other people, I'm able to see what's great about them and I tell them about it. And, and I've done the StrengthsFinder test and my number one strength is called Woo. It's called winning others over. And that's part of how I became aware of that. And I would encourage people. If you don't know your superpower, do some of those tests, like those assessments, to help you be able to put words to it. But, but for me, what winning others over, or what the Woo is all about, is really like listening and seeing what's great about someone and reflecting that back to them. And for me, that's like when I hear people talk about what they're doing or what they want to do, I'm able to spot qualities in them that are going to help them be successful with that, and I point them out. and I'm like, oh, you're gonna be great at that. Let me tell you why. This is what I see in you. And I think there's not a lot of people that are bold enough to tell someone that. Like, you might see something cool about someone, but you don't always say it out loud.

Mm-hmm.

And for me, like, I rush to tell people why they're awesome. Does that make sense? Yeah. And I think it's like people are starving for it and I think it makes people feel really good, but it also, as a coach, I think it helps me to spot potential. In people, like, you know what, I think you'd be really, really good at, or I see this in you. How can we maximize that as part of your— maximize that as your superpower? So maybe my superpower is spotting superpowers in other people and I tell them about it and I'm like, you know what you could do?

Yeah. But that's so important because we don't— we're really hard on ourselves. We all have that critic in our head and we don't often— we compliment, I love your shoes, but I've never thought of them like that. More of a character trait or more of like something, cuz that's really powerful, right? We all need that.

Yeah.

Love it. Yeah. One more question. So I always like to ask guests like a book or a podcast or a resource you'd recommend and why you love it.

Yeah. So the book that I love most over the last couple years is The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks, and that book has been transformational for me. And the reason I love it is because, you know, most of us, I think, is maybe not just as women, but especially as women that I've been talking to, is that there's this thing that happens in our brains where when we maybe we make big plans, we set some goals and we start learning and we start moving in a certain direction. And then, and we're like, yeah, we're going to do it. And. Then we call it self-sabotage that sneaks in, but it looks like procrastination, hesitation, or I'm gonna go pick a fight with my spouse because things are going well. Like, things are going well over here, and so I'm gonna go pick a fight over here. Or I lost 5 pounds, now I'm gonna eat a cookie. Like, we do this self-sabotage thing, and I wasn't really aware that I was doing that for my whole life, but for most of us, We've spent so much time in our life in pain and struggle, in challenging relationships, toxic relationships, even in scarcity of finances, health, health challenges, fighting with our weight, fighting with feeling well or having good energy that when we start to do better and we start to feel well and relationships are going well and money seems like it's going to be taken care of itself, or we have a really good plan and we're following it. That we're actually uncomfortable with things going well. And so we will try to— we will do something to self-sabotage, to kick ourselves back into our old comfort zone. And so this book called The Big Leap, it tells you what to do to stop doing that. Like, how do you just commit to feeling, feeling good all the time, feeling feeling well the majority? Are you willing to commit that things can go well all of the time? And what's crazy is that because I think most of us have been— I call it suffering and comfort— for so long, like we just do things to make ourselves feel better when we're really in suffering and we're not taking the action that we need to do in order to get ourselves out of that miserable, that state of misery or scarcity financially or whatever it is, and to be able to do some things that help us to reset our, our new normal to be able to step into that next level of success. And that book was really instrumental for me to figure out.

I'm gonna dust that off. I have it. I do think we have like a thermometer, right? And we get back to that comfort level, right? Yeah.

We've always gotta, we gotta work on ourselves to adjust the thermostat, right? The thermostat in the room. Cause it'll always kick us back down to where we've been comfortable unless we do things to, to crank it up and to keep it there.

Yeah. The, when you stretch though, that becomes the new normal, right? It just kind of like, it's—

yeah, that's the good news.

Yeah.

That's the good news. Yeah. Good stuff.

Awesome. Okay. Last question. How can people find you, work with you, follow your, join your community, all that good stuff?

Yeah. So andreaingstrom.com. I always have a workshop coming up. That you can register for free. I love sharing information and helping people grow. If you're a woman entrepreneur, register for my next workshop at andreaengstrom.com, or you can also join me in Bold Women in Business Sisterhood. That's my Facebook community. It's free to join on Facebook, and I go live in that group every, every Wednesday at 11 AM Central Time, and So I'm all about sharing what I'm learning as I go. I'm figuring it out as we go, people, and I'm just sharing as much as I'm learning along the way. But I love surrounding myself with other women who want to link arms and move in that direction. And I've, I lead mastermind groups and I've got some amazing opportunities for people to, to join me on this journey and to be a part of my circles and And so that, but that's a good place to start. Bold Women in Business Sisterhood Facebook group.

Okay. I love it. Yeah. Really great content too. Great. I've been to some of your stuff. It's really, it's just on the nose. Really awesome. Thank you, Andrea. This has been a treat. I appreciate you taking the time.

Thank you. Thank you, Shona. Good to see you as always. And I'm such a fan of what you're doing. Like, this is important work and you're helping people create the life that they desire and helping them get there faster. And I'm such a fan.

Thank you. Yeah, I'm like a serious introvert, so this is a real stretch for me to be out, out there like this. It's taking some growing.

You're doing great. You're doing great. But the thing I know about introverts, Shona, is that you're great at relationships and that we're just having a conversation. Yeah, you're doing awesome. Yeah, right.

Awesome. Thank you so much.