Unlocking Mid-term Rentals: Ms Kellie Michele on Boosting Profits, Optimizing Property Management...

I would say the pro for midterm rentals is that you don't have to touch the property as often as you do with short-term rentals. Whether they're luxury or not, you are still at that property multiple times a week cleaning, checking things, inspecting, dealing with guests, check-in, check-out. Like, it's constant, right? But with midterm rentals, my average guests stay about 3 months, and some stay 6 months. So they may extend their contracts or they come in starting out with 6 months. So therefore I don't have to touch the property hardly as often. Normally I spend the most time setting up the property, and then the next time I usually go is when someone checks out and I go over just to check everything and make sure if there's anything missing, just a checkout checklist basically, and make sure the cleaners did a good job and restock some supplies.

Welcome to the Cedar and Porch Real Estate Investment Podcast. I'm the host, Shona Lepis. Follow along as we unpack and demystify real estate investment strategies through expert interviews and personal experience. From how to find off-market deals to creative financing to long-term and midterm rentals, our goal is to educate and inspire others to gain financial freedom and generational wealth through real estate investing. This podcast was brought to you by the Midterm Rental Playbook course. The Midterm Rental Essential Method teaches real estate investors how to set up and fully book your first midterm rental with great guests so you can have the 2x your cash flow. We cover the basics from planning and how to set up your first midterm rental, how to self-manage and get direct bookings and keep more profit, how to launch your first midterm rental. Learn more and sign up at themidtermrentalplaybook.com. Welcome everyone. Today we have a fabulous guest, Ms. Kelly Michelle. She's a real estate mogul and midterm rental expert. She speaks and coaches on how to create consistent cash flow by building a profitable midterm rental business. Her love of real estate started in 2004 when she began house hacking, investing in her first two-family building. Over the years, Kelly has continued to build a profitable portfolio of properties and experiences ranging in luxury short-term rentals to corporate rentals to long-term rental properties. She's come to recognize that many people see the wealth opportunity within the midterm rental market but have no idea how to get started. She uses her skills as an international educator and her passion for real estate to give people the tools they need to build their own midterm rental business. So Kelly, so excited to have you. I gave you a little intro there. I'd love to hear more, just how you, your journey and your, your kind of midterm niche.

Thanks for coming. Okay. Yes. Again, thank you for inviting me. So I basically Started out really a long time ago, like you just said, started out house hacking with long-term rentals, right? Then fast forward years later, I moved to Arizona and that's where I started doing luxury short-term rentals. I was there for a while and then I decided to move back to my hometown of St. Louis, Missouri because I wanted to be closer to friends and family. And it was really the perfect timing. So I shut everything down. In Arizona because I'm not a person that likes to manage anything long distance. That's just my preference. It can be a lot of headaches. So, so I decided to just shut it down. And when I moved back to St. Louis, I'm like, well, what am I gonna do? Because this is not the luxury short-term rental market, right? This is not it. So what am I going to do? And then my mom, she presented it to me. She's like, why don't you provide housing to traveling nurses? Because we have several traveling nurses in my family. And I'm like, you know what, that's a good idea. I could, I could definitely do that. And so then I just jumped in and I went out, I found a property and it was in my price range. And so I went ahead and bought it and I just got started. I mean, it came naturally. Not to say I didn't have some learning curves, but with my experience with the long-term rentals and short-term rentals, it was pretty easy for me get into it and just manage it and figure it all out. So that's how I got started. And now I am here with multiple midterm rentals, and I still have long-term rentals. And at this point, I'm like, let me pause because I've grown pretty quickly. So let me pause and chill out, take a break, and enjoy some profits, right?

Sometimes as entrepreneurs, it's hard just to stop and be like, okay, the bar is always moving, and our goals.

It's really— it's hard to do that, right? Exciting. I get excited about new properties. I'm like, here's another one, I can do it, get it. No, I, I have to stop myself. And my friends and family are now like, no, you sit. No, you're right.

It's like there's always a shiny object though, right? Yes. I have a similar background. I've been doing this a long time, been a landlord, had a couple short-term, so I— and I feel like my experience, it was a really easy transition from So anyone out there that's like, hey, I'm interested in midterm, if you have any experience, it is, it's, it's just really, you build on that experience, right? Which is why I love this. So I, I have all my reasons why I love midterms, but you have the short-term luxury and I think that's like the sexy thing, right? Like super cash flow. It's a lot of work though. I'd love to hear your kind of like pros and cons of you have the midterm versus luxury STRs and knowing your market. I think that's really interesting how you transitioned.

Okay, so the pros and cons between like short-term rentals and the long— or excuse me, midterm rentals. I would say the pro for midterm rentals is that you don't have to touch the property as often as you do with short-term rentals. Whether they're luxury or not, you are still at that property multiple times a week cleaning, checking things, inspecting, dealing with guests, check-in, check-out. Like, it's constant, right? But with midterm rentals, my average guests stay about 3 months. and some stay 6 months. So they may extend their contracts or they come in starting out with 6 months. So therefore I don't have to touch the property hardly as often. Normally I spend the most time setting up the property. And then the next time I usually go is when someone checks out and I go over just to check everything and make sure if there's anything missing, just a checkout checklist basically, and make sure the cleaners did a good job and restock some supplies. And that's usually it. Every now and then a guest may call me and say something's going on, but it's usually minor. No, yeah, usually every now and then, like the hot water heater, right? That, that is rare. Things happen even if you own your own house. Things just happen out the blue. So it's just, those are things you just have to just be prepared for. So that's just one, you don't touch the property as often. The other benefit for midterm rentals would be is just less wear and tear on the property. Constantly have people running in and out, so therefore things are taken care of better, less things are broken and things like that. You also have a better— and I don't want to shade anyone who goes or rents a short-term rental because I still rent short-term rentals.

I love them too.

But I'm just— yeah, but you tend to have better guests quality of guests. Now, and when I say that, it's just because these guests are professional guests, so they're here for a purpose. They're here to work, get the job done, come home, relax, get some sleep, eat, and that's all they're worried about. They're not worried about partying or inviting people over or sightseeing. They're not worried about that. So most of the time when they do have time off, they're leaving to go back home to visit their family. So I love it. I don't have to spend hardly as much time, and I have more properties as midterm rentals than I did when I had short-term rentals.

You can scale, I feel like, a little easier, right? Yeah.

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I feel like, to your point, like, there's— it's less hand-holding, and they're not expecting this uber vacation experience. They're self-sufficient. They check in, and I don't hear from them for months, right? Unless there's a problem, of course. but it's very different expectations.

Yes. Yes. And I, I love that part as well.

Yeah. So I'm curious, obviously as investors, cash flow is king and there's STRs are profitable, but more work. So how have you looked at cash flow differences or percentage? I'm just curious.

I haven't really looked at the percentage. Um, I just always tell people that midterm rentals are, they're just that happy medium, right? So you're going to get more you will get for a long-term rental, but less than a short-term rental, just because you don't have as many people coming through and you don't charge as high of a rate as you would with the short-term rental, right? It's hard to really put a percentage on it because every market is different. You don't really know. And midterm rental, the, the term is relatively new, but it's always been corporate rentals. They're, they've been out there for who knows how long. But nobody was really tapping into it except for maybe more major companies or larger companies, not small operators like us. Um, I would say that would be it if you had to take a look at both of them, or the pricing strategy. That's how I explain it to people.

The happy medium, I love that. Yeah, no, when I first stumbled onto this, I didn't really know midterm, that was a thing. I just COVID hit and everyone, we all pivoted and it was just like transition. Then I'm like, oh, I guess I'm doing midterms. Yeah, I had no idea.

When I first got into it, I wasn't even calling it midterm rentals. I was just like corporate or out, or sometimes I was still calling it short-term rental. No, they're just longer.

I had no clue.

And that's when this midterm rental term starts surfacing and it's like, okay, that's the perfect term for it. Okay, other people are using this. So That's it.

Yeah, no, totally. It's funny, I just like, you start catching on, you're like, oh, and it's— I feel it. I don't know if it's because I'm in it, but I feel like I'm seeing it everywhere. It's getting more popular.

Definitely.

Um, and I think regulations are a big part of that with short-term or kind of—

yes, yes, because I know I just read, I believe it's in Dallas, they are talking about banning short-term rentals in, I think single-family neighborhoods. So they're only going to be restricted to certain types of neighborhoods. It hasn't passed yet, but they are definitely talking about moving in that direction. So that will be another group of people who have short-term rentals moving into midterm rentals because they don't want to shut down.

And once you're set up, that you've got it all furnished, it's set up, that transition is pretty relatively seamless, right? Which, okay, so that, that's a perfect segue into what the way I talk, like furnishing STR luxury versus a midterm, I feel like it's a little more practical. But I'm curious your approach, right? Because it's different, right? It's subtle. But, um, so I'd love to hear your thoughts.

So I still like to put nice furniture in my midterm rentals, but like you said, it's still practical. So I am not putting a lot of accent pieces around Maybe just a little, but not a lot. It doesn't have to be super, super fancy, but I like it to be more modern and comfortable enough for someone to come in and be like, I feel like I'm at home. It's not outdated. Everything is smart TV, still the same basics, stuff that I would like. Basically, that's how I look at it. If I would be okay staying here with what I've provided, then that's—

it's good. That's a good meter. I actually make a point of staying in them I'm like, is the cheese grater missing? What's— what do I need?

Yep. And I tell people that I coach, I'm like, stay at your property no matter if it's a short-term rental or midterm rental. You need to spend the night, maybe two, at your property because you don't know. How is the water pressure in the shower? Is something missing? Like you just said, is something broken that you didn't pay attention to? So yeah, definitely recommend that.

Yeah, I was talking to someone and they had a really good way. Also cook a meal, right? Nothing fancy, but where you know what tools— the grater, like the can opener, just those little things that are really annoying when you don't have, right?

Yeah, yeah.

Thought that was good.

Awesome, great idea.

I'm like, I'm gonna borrow that. Yeah, I actually stayed at— when we had a new one, I stayed there and my daughter took a bath and the, the water was going down real slow.

I'm like, oh no, that's common.

Major sewer issue. I had guests coming in 2 days. It was a whole— but if we hadn't stayed there, it would have been So yeah, and it's also a perk, right? You get to stay in between if you want.

Exactly. And I find, just like you said, the shower draining slowly, it's always something clogged, like hair in the drains, and you didn't know it or whatever. And the other benefit is that you get to help other people in your family. Like, not only do you get to stay, or your family or friends, if you need a place to stay just to relax, but when people are in need I have had to help several family members and like friends of the family whose maybe their houses were affected by floods or fire, and we happen to have places open and we're like, okay, come over here. And that's just awesome when somebody's going through something like that, like a tragic or traumatic experience, to be able to say, okay, you're good. Here's a place, it's furnished, go there and stay, and then we'll work it out. That's awesome.

That is so true. We've done that a couple times during COVID We had friends and they didn't want to move back home and I'm like, hey, it's empty. And it was— that's a really good point. It just felt like I could give back and it, you know, it was empty and I just— it's— yeah. Like, how often do you have like, hey, move into my furnished house?

Exactly. Right. Exactly.

Yeah. No, it's all— and yeah, it's, it's funny when I think about— I could, if we ever had to move, we'd have lots of places to land, right?

And you know what, I tend to decorate my midterm rentals better than my own house. Hey, you don't mind coming to stay here? Yeah, I spent all this money on all of this stuff to make it look nice. Let me enjoy it.

Totally. No, I've raided our house. Oh, definitely, definitely.

I barely have pictures left on my wall at my house because I'm like, oh no, this can go into this property, this can go into this property.

My daughter's Oh, you borrowed my pillows. She's like charging me rent now because I'm always borrowing stuff.

That cart gets expensive. It really does. And it's this little thing. No, let me see what I have that I'm not even worried about. It's just sitting around collecting dust. That can go.

Exactly. No, yeah, I love that. And we also— I feel like we're of a like mind. It sets the— when you have a well-designed stylish property that has the modern amenities, it sets it apart from some of the— right? I don't know what your take is on that.

Oh yeah, I definitely agree. I've seen pictures, especially when I first started out. Now more people have gotten into it, so you see better properties or better looking properties. But when I first started out, I'm like, are you serious? Really? You're putting this out there for somebody to see? This looks like furniture that my grandmother used to have. And why? Can, can you just go get another couch? Can you do something different? Yeah, it is much better.

Yeah.

And you can—

I think you can be really scrappy, like consignment shops, or maybe you have something you're not using. You can do it in a way that's budget friendly.

Exactly.

I think people don't think about that, but I just— it's my— when I see bad pictures, I'm just like, man, get a photographer. It's so worth it. Don't skimp on that stuff.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Let's see. Okay, so that kind of leads into my next question. I, I often— people, I think, wonder what's the ideal property, like beds, bath. I have my ideas. I'd love to hear your take on who your avatar is, like what size properties are ideal for the midterm space.

So I always tell people to do your market research and see what the demand is for your area. That's like basically where we start. Don't even go look at anything until you figure out what the demand is. and then that determines what size property you want. So if you're in a city or a location where you see that there's a demand for larger properties, that's what you go for. Here, my sweet spot, they're the, the smaller— excuse me, smaller properties. So 1, 2 bedrooms, that's it. I don't go beyond 2 bedrooms. The 1 bedrooms do really well, but that's just because here the market, people are either traveling by themselves or with one other person. That's all they need. So that's how I approach it, and I never really give anybody any specific details because I'm like, no, we need to look at your market. Sorry, can't just tell you, oh yeah, go get a 3-bedroom. No. And then your house is sitting vacant, and then you're crying because you're paying a mortgage or rent or whatever, and nobody's filling your property because it's too large for them. So yeah, definitely start there.

No, I love that. And I also I feel like the smaller ones, it's a way to maximize. You look at your long-term rent versus the midterm, and you're going to get substantially more rent. So that's another benefit of if the market supports it, like 1 or 2 bedrooms.

Yes, definitely.

Where are your kind of go-to places to research what the demand is when you're doing that research?

Well, you know what, I go straight to Furnished Finder. I go there because realistically right now that is just the major platform for midterm rentals. I know there are other platforms that are being developed and being tested. Other people are coming out with things, but it's still going to take some time before those sites catch on or before people really start going and booking. Furnished Finder is already established. People already know to go there to put houses out there, and people know to go out there and find places, right? So that is just the best way for me to take a look at the data. In addition, it's free. To take a look at the data, not Furnished Finder in general, but just to look at the statistics and see what's out there and look at the competition in the neighborhood. That's all free, so why not go use that source?

Yeah, no, I love that they have that stats page. And it's funny because I feel like with STRs, there's so many sites that do all this number crunching that midterms are so new, there's not like a go-to, like, data aggregate thing, right? I don't know.

No, I think I know Mashfinder is another— or is it Mashfinder or Mashvisor? I'm not sure the name of it.

I think I know what you're talking about.

Yeah, yeah, I believe they include midterm rentals as well as short-term rentals, but I like— I've only heard of it. I've never really used it. I am particular. I want something that only focuses on midterm rentals just because that's just what I do. I don't want to compare anything else. I need to know what this is. Yeah, the real numbers, accurate information just for this midterm rentals.

No, I definitely think, and that is the, the place, right? I aggregate to like about a million. I put, I actually put a spreadsheet together. I'm like, these are all the places I like shoot stuff out to, but Furnished Finder hands down has been like the majority of the leads, right? It's out there.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm listed on a lot of different sites, but have never been contacted. So yeah, that's the other thing. And I guess that may be where people just don't know about it, or I'm not sure, but that's why I'm like, go where it works, go where people are looking.

I've gotten the odd Craigslist response sometimes. I still— I'm like, how is this still a thing? But yeah, Furnished Finder is just— yeah, it's— and you get qual— you know, people are— they're traveling for work, they know what to expect.

So exactly. And they know the process in general.

Yeah, totally. That actually is something that I think people, vetting of people, like I'm, I approach it from a long-term, like you have to get screened. I have formal leases, which I think some people don't do that. I'd like to, if you could speak to your process for kind of onboarding a new guest or vetting them, be curious.

So I am pretty much the same. So when I started out, I was doing background checks, credit checks, eviction checks for everybody. And I still do a lease and collect IDs, so I do all of that. But recently I'm like, the medical professionals have to have a background check anyway, so why am I putting them through another background check and doing all of those things and even the credit check? Because I could just look at their contract and talk to the recruiter. So I now give my guests the option. So if they are a medical professional, I am going to say, okay, you can go this route of we can do the background credit check and eviction check and you pay for that, or you could just send me over your contract, your ID, and the name of your recruiter and their contact information, and I could just verify that way. So I really let them make the choice because sometimes people may not feel comfortable providing their contracts. So they can choose, and that's the route I go. Now, anybody outside of medical professionals I'm going to do the background credit check and eviction check. And again, I'm still doing leases for everybody. Now, some people do agreements, but I just say, why? Because you have month-to-month leases. They are already out here created. It's legal in your state. So I'm just going to go with that.

Yeah, no, actually, I like that strategy because I've noticed a lot of times people get contracts and they're very last minute. Like, we need to leave in 2 days. And I'm like, normally you're processing, it's a couple of days. To check landlord references. But if you want to be quick about it, I like that strategy. It just is more of a fair game for that. So that's really helpful.

And I haven't had any problems. No, I haven't had any issues with people not paying or messing the properties up. Everybody's been fine. So yeah, I'm going to keep with it.

I love that. And I also think when you say landlord, everyone's like, oh my God, they're going to destroy the house. The toilet's going to leak at 2 o'clock. No, these people, I've been clear, they're not planning on staying forever. They're very light, kind of light impact. So that's the other reason I like short terms, right?

Yeah.

All right. Awesome. Okay. And as far as I have my favorite tools, I'm curious what your favorite kind of management collecting rent kind of payment tools are that you're using.

You know what? So for payment tools, I tend to stick with what people use and what is free. So I'm like Zelle. Venmo. Those are my go-tos. If they want PayPal, we'll do PayPal. I prefer not to because they will take a fee if you don't do it the right way. But I just go that route. Now, if it's someone who really wants to pay by credit card or something like that, then I do have a Stripe account. But most people— I haven't run into anybody really who has wanted to pay by a credit card. No, let me take that back. It was one person who wanted to pay their deposit by a credit card, but they just still went through Venmo and just set their credit card up and paid that way.

Okay, that's super like easy, right?

You don't— yeah, yeah, I mean, software— yeah, people already use these things, so let's just make it easy.

Yeah, I love Venmo. I pay my subs that way, and it's just, it's just I pay them right away and keeps them happy.

Yes, and then you have transaction history, you can download what's been going on. So yeah, it's easy.

Yeah. I like that. All right. I think when people are getting started, the whole underwriting thing, it's definitely, you need to be, I think, conservative. So I'm curious on your kind of underwriting approach when you're acquiring a property or getting into arbitrage or something.

So for rental, any of them really, I do have like my basic minimum amount that I want to make as a profit, right? So when we talk about rental arbitrage, just because the numbers get a little bit trickier with rental arbitrage, I have to really look at how much the base rent is because rent has gone up on long-term rentals, right? So it is, it is getting a little bit more challenging to make sure you make the numbers fit. But again, this is another thing where I try to keep it really simple. I'm like, okay, so I know I want to make this amount of money, so let's— we're going to use $500 per month, right? That's my base profit. I have to walk away with at least this for me to get into a property. And again, that number can be whatever you want it to be. I pretty much go in and I'm like, okay, so how much is the rent? And then utilities on a 1 or 2-bedroom, I already know on average how much that would be. So let's just say a 1-bedroom, okay, I'm not going to spend more than $150 on utilities because usually they're all electric. And it's just, I'm paying electric, internet, and insurance. I know, have an idea of what the expenses are. So I just have my formula where I pretty much, okay, let's plug the numbers in. Do they work? Nope. Okay, keep it moving. Yeah, keep it moving. And that's just it.

Okay, I like— I think it's good to know what your criteria is. Otherwise you get the shiny object, you're like, oh, I could make it work, the rents will go up.

Yeah, and you know what, I have done that in the past. Realistically, I'm like, but I really want this property, it looks so nice. But when you look out there and you see that midterm rental rates won't support what you have to charge in order to make your profit, then it's just not worth it because you're not going to be happy in the end. You're going to end up doing all of this work, spending all of this money, putting, putting it into a property and you're not getting paid as much as you would like. So it's like, that's not fun. Everything's going back into the business.

And then you want to just stop. You're all excited, but if you have a bad experience, then you're like, what? I'm just being working for free, right? Or not, right?

Yeah, nobody gets into a business to work for free or not make any money.

It's not easy in this business, but yeah, no, it is not. So arbitrage, I've, I've never done it. I'd be curious if you're looking to get into this, it feels like an entryway to get into without owning property. I'd love to like, how do you find the properties? Like, how do you sell it to prospective managers or whatnot? Like the pros and cons of arbitrage.

Okay. Um, so real, really, I just go out there just like you would be looking for a property for yourself to rent. So I'll go on zillow.com, realtor.com. Those types of sites and just see what's out there. I actually run my numbers while I'm looking. So if I see a property and I look at the amount they're charging, I go ahead, run the numbers. If I see they work, then I will contact them and set up an appointment to go view the property. If the numbers don't work, we just keep it moving, keep looking for other properties. But once I make the appointment, go take a look at the property, make sure it's something I actually really want Then that's when I will speak to the property manager or the owner about what I do and what my plans are for the property. So basically, I approach it as a business, business to business. Hey, I have a corporate rental business. I provide housing for traveling professionals. Majority of my— the people who stay in my property are traveling medical professionals. Um, and basically they stay about 3 months, some stay a little bit longer. Would you be okay with that? That's basically— I just lay it out. This is what I'm doing. This is why I'm here. Would you be okay with me renting the property for that purpose? Normally I'll just get a few questions and I get a yes. I know a lot of times people have problems in that area, but it's all about how you present it. And also, I target private landlords. I don't go to big apartment complexes.

Complexes.

I— some apartment complexes will allow you to do it, but they have their own rules and red tape and things you have to go through. It's just easier when I'm looking or working with a private landlord or a property manager who manages single-family homes. Easier to get in. The person is making the decision right there. You don't have to have somebody go talk to corporate or have all these rules. Yeah, and I get a yes. And it's just, we move forward.

It seems like a great business case. And then are there any like concerns that are frequent? Like what if, I don't know, like what are the most common kind of clarifying questions when you're presenting the business case for that?

So let me think. So basically they always kind of want to know like how many people will be staying in a property. I would present and I'm telling them usually it's 1, 2 people. And if they— if it's more than 2, it's really no more than 3 because maybe it's a couple with a child. But normally people aren't traveling with children too much, is usually just one other person. Um, then the other question they may ask is who's responsible, like, for the bills, the utilities, rent, things like that. So then that's when I assure them that everything stays in my company's name. I am renting from you, um, and I am subleasing, but Everything gets paid through my company. We don't change utilities or anything like that throughout a person's or between stays or anything like that. Those are really the top two. Most people have medical professionals in their family, so they're aware of traveling nurses. So if you just mentioned traveling nurses, they're like, oh yeah, I have a cousin who does that, does that, my sister does that. So that automatically creates a connection, even if you're hosting more than that, which I do. That creates that connection where they're like, okay, these are good people. I don't mind those people standing on my property. These are people taking care of us in hospital. That's fine. I just don't want those partiers or people tearing up my house. Right.

Yeah, definitely. No, I love that. It's a way to make it real, right? Who's the person, the type of people, or like typically, right? Actually, that made me think of a question. So when you're— if you like— and I love that you're doing your analyzing ahead of time, so you're, and you're just reaching out and you're doing your homework. You're not just like, hey, like, that looks cool. I have a kind of question on when you're technically subleasing. So do you have your own contract that you're having signed, or how do you navigate the paperwork on that?

So I signed the lease with the landlord just like any other. So it will be between me and them, and then I pretty much have a lease because Let me stop there. In that lease between myself and the landlord, I have a clause that I make sure is in there that they give me permission to sublease, okay? Because that's important. Sometimes you have to provide proof that it's okay for you to sublease to maybe companies that you are working with, or some type— some booking platforms might ask for it. So that is very important. And then I also make sure I add other things to protect myself into that lease between myself and the landlord. Just in case anything happens. So for example, another one would be if the city ordinances change and they don't allow me to do my business or run my business, then you will let me out this lease, no penalty, something like that. So that's how I approach it between myself and the landlord. Now for myself and the guest or tenant, I also create a lease still, and it's a month-to-month lease. Like I said earlier, I still do my due diligence, vet them. They're approved, send them the month-to-month lease. They pay the deposit, first month's rent, and we're good. And that's it.

Okay. I like that. Those little tweaks are like, if you don't do those, that permission, that could really backfire.

Oh yeah, definitely.

Definitely. So I'm really curious. I, I get asked about month-to-month and I like knowing, hey, I've got someone for X amount of months. I'm happy to renew, but month-to-month feels like it's all calculated risk. But do they give you 30 days notice and you have time to fill it? Or I just have never done month to month, so I'm curious on your approach.

So in my lease, I put— that's one of the requirements. They have to give me a 30-day notice if they're leaving, or— well, not really if they're leaving. If they're extending, they need to give me a 30-day notice. If they're not extending, I already know they're end date. So that's how I handle it. And the reason why I use month-to-month leases is just because of the flexibility of it. So if they want to extend, we don't have to do additional paperwork. So that's just how it works. Now, I really— I've only had people cancel early on me once. That— yeah, it's only been one time, um, and that's just because there was an issue with his contract. Uh, his contract wasn't, uh, accurate according to what they told him over the phone, and when it was time to sign it or whatever, then things were different. So I could understand that he really didn't want to cancel just because it was just an issue. Um, but yeah, normally everybody else fulfills the contract, and if they need to extend by maybe even a couple of days, it's just no big deal with the month-to-month contract.

Okay, that makes sense. That kind of puts it in perspective. So I think one of my questions, maybe it's just I've never done arbitrage, like I feel if I own the property and I'm spending a lot of money on furnishing, because there's upfront costs, like you get it back, but it's definitely a chunk. Do you just factor that in, pay X amount for furnishing and you're going to have it for a year, so it'll— you're just— it's like a cost of business kind of, or how do you—

Basically, yeah. Yeah. It's just, that's just something you have to do whether you're doing rental arbitrage or not. If you're going to do a furnished rental, you're going to have to provide those, that furniture and household items, and that's just it.

Okay. Yeah. I feel like it feels like an investment, but I think if you have a lease, then you're guaranteed. Yeah, it makes sense.

Yeah. And then I tell people as well, you don't necessarily always have to buy your furniture. You can rent if you want to. If you're just testing this out, rent. Now, it might not be the most cost-effective way in the end, but depending on the person, that might be the way to go. I've looked into it. For me, it just wasn't worth it just because by the time I paid 12 months of rent on furniture, I might as well bought it. Yeah, it just depends on what you want to do.

No, I like that. It's a back pocket thing, right? If you're in a bind or something. Yeah, no, that's really— yeah, no, I do. I kind of test the market, so I'll like digitally stage it and then I'll run out. And I feel like, I don't know what you think, if after a couple times you can furnish things pretty quickly on a budget.

Oh yeah, yeah, because you go to your same places, you go to the same furniture. At least I do, I go same furniture company. I could— hey, I know what to buy now. Boom, boom.

Yeah, it's like, it's really daunting the first time. You're like— and then by the fourth one, I was just like, oh, three, I can do this. I—

yes. And Amazon is my friend. Delivery, right?

Yeah. And then when I'm there, I'm like, Target, like, delivery, like, for last minute stuff. But yeah, it's not— I think you just think about what do you need when you're living in a house. Like, you need towels, you need all It's— yeah, it's not as daunting when you do it a couple of times. Let's see what else. Yeah. What do you— when you— and also I think what people don't— you like budget for furnishings. Do you have that kind of dialed in? If I've got a 1-bedroom, a 2-bedroom, and these are my go-to products, do you have that kind of dialed in at this point?

I have a— yeah, I have a good idea now because I've done so many. Okay. For a 1-bedroom, I know I'm expecting to spend $4,000 to $4,500. Sometimes I can get away with a little bit less, but no, that's what I'm expecting. 2-bedroom, I'm gonna just go ahead and go up to $6,000. But again, that could be flexible, but I just put those numbers out there just so I'm like, okay, this is what to expect. If I spend less, great, but this is what I'm expecting.

Yeah, because all I think also those things add up, like you did the coffee maker and the scissors and just all the little things that you got.

All of it, all of it adds up. And like we were talking about earlier, the decor is like, it's so expensive. Like, why, why am I paying like $200 for just this little bitty rug or a picture or whatever? One, just one.

But that's what makes the pictures look good. Like, you don't want to— yes, there's a balance. But I really— I'm— I guess I love design, and that's part of why I like midterms. I like to furnish, but I, I would just don't skimp on it. I feel like it's so important to have a place that you'd want to actually stay in. What would you want? That place, right? Exactly.

Make it feel comfortable.

Yeah. So, I mean, I'm curious what your, like, favorite kind of I don't— amenities sounds like higher end, but what are your favorite kind of go-to— what are your necessities when you're furnishing a place?

My fa— you mean like the favorite places I want to go to or just items that I like?

Items like smart TV, smart lock.

Okay.

I'm just curious, those things that, you know, might not think about.

So my necessities, um, electronic locks, but I'm gonna pause because these electronic locks have been giving me a headache. And it's just really the batteries going dead really quickly, or they're going offline for no reason, and it's out of the blue, and it's like the most awkward or the worst time that it could happen, and it keeps happening. Uh, lockboxes. So I also put a lockbox at the property so that when something happens with that electronic lock, then they can go to the lockbox. But then I have some issues where the lockbox code isn't working for some reason. Like, I'll set it and it's fine, and I don't know what happens after a while, but then I can't get into the lock.

The water gets in there, it gets rusty. Yeah, same.

Yeah, so it's— that is a challenge, but that is— it's a necessity. You can work that out on your own, but I feel like still smart locks are great just because I like the Bluetooth kind where you can change the codes from your phone on the app. You can unlock and lock the door, so I like that. The other necessities would be, like you said, smart TVs. That's a necessity. I don't get cable for the most part unless there's a requirement by maybe one of the companies I may work with, like a corporate company where they do require cable. But even still, it would be like a basic cable that you can just use by having the internet, right? So internet is just a necessity as well. You have to have internet. Let me think of another necessity. I wouldn't— washers and dryers are important. Now it just determines, of course, people want it in the unit. That's the best option. The next level would just be like in the building, but the best option is in the actual unit. People prefer that. I'm trying to think of any other necessities besides what we already know, of course. The beds, the good mat— and the mattresses. You have to spend a whole lot on a mattress, but you do need some decent mattresses.

I think you find the one like on Amazon that becomes your go-to and you just order it. You don't think about it.

Yep, yep. Mattresses and pillows, those seem to be the things as well. Oh, and for— I'm gonna— I was going to say for the medical professionals, blackout curtains. But I just think blackout curtains in the bedroom, it doesn't matter who it is. I think that's just always going to be a good perk or something you should have. That's what I could think of besides coffee. I'm not a coffee drinker, but I know a lot of people are, so I usually just get it like a Keurig, and that's pretty much it. But everything else I believe is standard. But hey, I haven't looked at other people's properties either. See what they're doing.

Yeah, no, the only thing I would add is I have Ring doorbells just for access, and I have some Ring floodlights because some neighborhoods are just— it's urban, so I'm like, it's just an extra level of security when you get a package delivered or something. But then I'm always like adding guests and I'll forget to add them to the thing.

And I do have a camera at some properties, but then the notifications go off all the time. But yeah, for the most part, I've just stopped doing the camera thing, and that's just it. And I just left the ones I already have out there. They're there.

Yeah, no, totally. So I have to circle back to— I recently— yeah, I don't have cable. I usually— I provide like a couple like streaming services. I'm curious, do you include anything, or do guests log into their own accounts, or how do you manage that?

So the only thing I get is Amazon Prime. So I either have an Amazon TV or Fire TV, or I'll get the Fire Sticks or the Roku depending on what I need, the options I need. And yeah, I just get the Amazon Prime and that's it. Everything else they can log into themselves. I just make sure that the apps are actually on the TV so it's just easy for them to go to. But yeah, they just log into their own account.

Yeah, I just, I was, I cut cable at one of my units and I just got a Roku and I guess it has like a guest login feature, which was new to me. So then I'm like, because I was going to get Apple and I'm like, oh, this is so much logging in and account management. Okay. That's yeah, I have Amazon and Netflix and I just share it across a couple of properties. So I'm like, and the rest you can log in. So also, yeah, I definitely feel like when I get feedback, washer dryer, Everyone wants parking. Are you pet friendly or where are you on the pet front as far as—

So initially I started off, no, I don't want pets. And it was just because some people have allergies, including myself. So I didn't want to have to worry about the next guest coming and then they have a reaction to the pet that was there previously, even though we cleaned, there's still dander or hair that may be still lingering around. I have opened up to allowing pets in my properties that do not have carpet. I do have it as an option in a few properties, just also because people— a lot of more people are traveling with their pets. And of course, when you need to fill a property, pets, that goes out the window. Like, I need to get this property filled, I have bills to pay. Yeah, you have a cat? Okay, here you have to pay this non-refundable pet deposit. And you can come on in because it's business. Business is business. You have to pay the bills. So you have to be a little bit more flexible.

Yeah, no, I agree. It's funny you mentioned carpet because the amount of money I've spent on carpet cleaning for every turnover, I could have just put hardwood, put laminate down because I just— it's just, man, I've spent a lot of money on carpet cleaning. I'm just like, yeah. And guests don't necessarily want to pay. It's a little tricky because I'm like, it's your pet and It's expensive though for a carpet, like a professional, especially if you have to do a whole entire property.

You don't know how many bedrooms it may be, but yeah, that can get expensive.

Yeah.

So yeah, that's why I'm like limited to properties without carpet and we're okay.

That's a good— I like that because yeah, no, I feel like they're generally part of your family too and people are very appreciative. But yeah, I just, I have to say like my last guest was really nice, but man, picked up a lot of dog poop after that, and I'm like, I'm charging for this. Like, this is not—

yeah, definitely need to put in like your rules. If you leave dog poop or not cleaning up after your pet, it's a fee. This is being deducted from your deposit.

It's an issue. Yeah, but I'm like, really? And it was— yeah, I just, I texted a friend, I'm like, landlord life. Exactly.

Like, it's your pet, you clean up after your pet.

It's never happened. This is the first time. Things happen, you just take it with them. So do you have a custom addendum that you're using, or do you have something like for pets kind of that outlines all those rules?

No, I don't really have anything custom. Like I said, it's just that I think one clause I put in my lease is that if your guest or pet causes any damage to the property or whatever, you are responsible for it. That, I mean, and it's just that simple, um, just so I state it, make very clear you're going to be responsible. And again, I have that non-refundable pet deposit. So again, if I need that extra money, which I mean, it's going to go back into the property anyway. So yeah.

So do you— I know we're in the weeds here. Do you charge a pet rent on top of that fee or no?

Just— No, I don't. No, I just charge the regular rent with the pet deposit.

Okay. I just found out we're not allowed to charge a pet fee in the county that I'm in.

Oh yes.

Yeah, all the regulations, I feel like they're constantly changing.

And so yeah, that's the importance of knowing the rules. That's another thing I tell people, like, make sure you go to your little township or whatever it may be and check the ordinances or check out the HOA rules, all of that stuff, because you need to know it or you could be shut down and you don't want that.

Exactly. Yeah, it's so important. Like, It's, yeah, know what you're getting into. So are you self-managing or do you have a team? Or I haven't talked to you about that.

I am self-managing. I have, of course, my cleaner. But yeah, I'm self-managing. A lot of the properties that I rental arbitrage have a property manager. So that's been pretty easy because if there's something major that happens, I just let the property manager know. Or, but otherwise I can handle it myself. If it's something simple, light bulb, filters in a furnace. Things like that. And, um, that's all I really needed because no one has done damage to any of the properties or caused anything for me to have to repair myself. Yeah, self-managing. But I am trying to— I am trying to figure out, because I would like to relocate, and remember, I'm not that person who likes to manage properties from a distance, so I am trying to figure out how I want to handle that part. I want to figure out if I want maybe hire someone to come do certain tasks and I just pay them per task, or if I want to get a property management company involved. I'm not sure quite yet.

I've thought about that too, and I almost feel like the intensive part is the turnover. So you just have someone that kind of does it because I'm really particular. I need to go there, get eyes on it, put it back to just make sure it's hotel ready. Like I have cleaners, but I think they never— I love them, but I still need to fuss with it.

Yeah, yeah. Nobody treats your stuff like you will. I'm the same way. I'm going behind the cleaners. I found dish towels in the bathroom as hand towels. Like, this is not a hand towel.

I know, because it just sets the tone. I just, I don't know, maybe I need to give up that control, but I just really want to set the tone for the experience. Yeah, that's interesting. I feel like I've set systems up so I could bring someone on, and then I know with management companies, the fees are a lot higher with a midterm. I think it varies, but definitely—

Yeah, it's going to be higher than it would be for a long-term rental. But again, I'm trying to see if I can continue to manage everything online myself. I'm okay with that part. If I could just find someone to do the physical part. So even if it is a management company, if I can find one that will just handle that physical part, run into the property to do those little bitty things, then I will be okay.

Yeah, no, keep me posted because I'm like wondering, because sometimes I'm like, is this the best use of my time to be going over there 3 times to get the beds all fluffed up?

Exactly. Or even just getting those little small items. Like, I like to leave starter items for my guests, so like the trash bags and the soaps and the dish detergent, and you know, those little bitty things. Like, I feel like that's just part of a good experience because people are coming in town. They're not trying to run to a store and go shopping for their needs immediately. So if I can give them some time to get settled in, at least a week or two, and then they can go do those things, then I think that's the best option because I would want the same thing for myself. You're coming in to go to work and some— a lot of times really people are coming the day before they start work. Oh yeah, just get in town. Get their stuff settled in the property and relax before they have to go to work.

No, I totally agree. And I, yeah, it's the 3 rule. I've got my list, I've got my toilet paper, a roll of paper towels, the soap, and they might use their own, but at least you're not like, oh, I don't have soap in the shower. You just, because they oftentimes are traveling cross-country in the car and they land there and it's, yeah, no, I, that's, yeah, I'm the same way. I'm always like, is the soap full enough? Was there enough?

Do I need to go back and get a new one?

So I'm curious. I also usually leave like sometimes a bottle of wine or chocolates along with my guests. But do you do anything? I know there's mixed feelings in the industry about that. What's your take on that?

I don't leave any food, or if I do leave something to drink, it's just like maybe a sealed bottle of water.

Okay.

Maybe a couple bottles or something like that. But no, I don't leave any food. At first I wasn't even getting like salt and pepper, but I didn't really realize That was a big thing. So now I just at least now provide salt and pepper for people. But yeah, I just stay away from the food thing because I don't know about allergies and everybody has their preferences. I don't want to leave wine because somebody might have been an alcoholic, you know, or might be against their religion and they're offended. People get offended very easily these days. Yeah, I'll just stay out of it.

That is a good point. Yeah, no, the salt— I have hunted for like a pepper grinder, like they disappear. I can't refill the damn thing. The amount of times I've been out looking for Pepper, it's silly, but just—

yes. And it's always those small crazy things like you don't think about that just come up missing. Yeah, like, I'm like, I know I had hangers here, and I go and check it out, and I don't even think about it. Like, I'll go and inspect the property, and then I go back again, like, to drop off something. I'm like, there aren't any hangers here.

Or the nice ones you left are gone and there's some crappy hangers, and I want them to be organized by color and like tidy.

I mean, I just— I'm amazed by some things, like where did this go? I think the last thing that was missing was a laundry basket. I'm like, didn't I have a laundry basket here? I mean, these things are minor and it doesn't happen often, but it's just things like that. Oh gosh, now I gotta go get this, gotta do that. So it makes it a little bit more challenging for me to be like, let me hand this off to someone else, because another person is not going to know those details or won't pay attention to those little details.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if it's like a checklist or— but it's all in my head, right? I guess it's downloading that. Okay, turn over, salt and pepper, check, olive oil, those little— but those little details are just— when you go to wash dishes, if there's not enough dish soap, you're like, oh, 9 o'clock at night. I don't want to run in the store and get dish soap, right?

Exactly.

Yeah, I'm glad we're in— yeah, it's— I think it's so important because it's kind of like a hotel experience. You want to be set, get up really clean. There can't be anything astray, right?

Right. Someone checks in and it's the impression. You want to give a good impression. You don't want someone walking in, oh my gosh, what is this? No. But then they're trying to leave or coming up with an excuse like, oh, why they can't stay and No.

Yeah.

We want a good experience and we want people to return. Mm-hmm. You give that great experience. I have someone now in one of my properties who contacted me like, hey, I'm coming back. Is the property available? And he's back and he's actually staying for 6 months. So it's perfect. Yeah. So it's customer service and that impression. All of those things make a difference.

It really is. And then I have to remind myself, if this was short-term, it would be every 3 days. And I just have to like keep that perspective. Do you ever do that?

Okay.

I'm like bitching about it in my head. I'm like, it's been 6 months.

Quit complaining. You haven't been here who knows how long.

Yeah. So I just have to like, yeah.

The point that you still have to do it is like, mm-hmm. I don't wanna have to do this all the time, but yeah.

Yeah. But it's just another reason why the midterm is that happy middle ground we talked about. Yes. Because you're a short-term, even if you have a crew, I would still be over there fussing and they generally— something wasn't quite up to my standards, or just because I'm particular. Yeah. So to wrap it up soon, just— I don't think we didn't touch on— sorry, you know, arbitraging versus owning your property, other kind of major benefits, pros, cons, like just the difference between the two. I don't know if we really impacted that. Sorry, I just realized.

With owning the property, you are always going to make more money, right? Because the mortgage is going to be less than rent. So when you guys think about it, whenever someone as a landlord rents a property, the purpose is to make money off of that property, right? So they're going to mark it up a couple hundred dollars, who knows how much, because they have a certain amount they want to make per month. But when you own the property, you're already starting at that base, right? So let's just say, for example, you have a property— I'm just throwing out some easy numbers— the mortgage is $1,000. You look at the midterm rental market, you could charge $2,000. Your expenses on a house you own would be a little bit higher just because you're covering like the water, sewer, trash, electric, whatever. So you're going to have more utilities. But in the— if you think about it, when you're renting, you're still really paying those things because they're including that in your rent. You have— let's just say your utilities come out to $300. You still have that chunk of money, like $700 profit, right? Versus if you were renting, your rent would not be $1,000. It's automatically going to jump up to $1,300, $1,400, if not more. And you still have to pay those expenses on top of it. So that's why I say you're going to make more money if you own a property. That is always, to me, the best way to do it. But if you can't own or buy a property, then go ahead and start with rental arbitrage. And then you start making that revenue because that's still money that you can count towards your business, right? When you're doing your taxes and you need to maybe qualify for a mortgage or whatnot, or any type of loan, they're still going to look at your revenue. And it's still revenue with rental arbitrage. So then you can get yourself into a position where you can go buy a property later. If you're doing well with the rentals.

No, I like that. Is it— is it— do people start there and then like they either like it or don't? Or is it like usually they— that's— and they go to buying properties? It just depends.

It really just depends on what a person really can do. Like for me, I would prefer to buy a property, of course, just because I know the benefits. But again, some people are scared, so they may just say, let me test the waters out I may be able to buy a property, but I just want to start out renting and doing rental arbitrage just to see if this business is going to work out for me or how I like it. And if I do, then I'll go buy a property. Some people just can't afford it, so they're like, okay, I'm going to just start with rental arbitrage and just go this route. So it just really depends on the person's situation.

Okay, good to know. Do you have a couple more minutes, like, to chat? Okay. This has been so fun. I just, I love talking midterms, nerding out on it. So I just, I, is there anything that we missed on midterms that we didn't cover, like benefits or things that you tell people? I don't know.

Um, I, there's always little tips I come up with. Of course, when you ask me, I'm like, I can't remember. I can't think of anything. Okay. Um, I think the most important thing of this whole process is really the market research part. Um, if you get in the right way, then you're automatically setting yourself up for success. Um, don't get just too excited like we talked about earlier. Oh, I like this property, it's perfect, it's in the right location, yada yada, but they're charging $2,000 a month and I'm trying to do rental arbitrage. That is setting yourself up for failure unless you're able to charge $4,000 or something crazy. And yeah, don't do it. So That whole market research part, not just understanding what to charge, but are you need to know like what, how much you can afford to pay, what's happening in the market with midterm rentals, just a lot of different things. The right neighborhoods to get into so that you don't get a property somewhere where you can't fill it because it's not in the right location. So I think I would say if you're going to do anything, spend a lot of time on the market research.

No, 100%. And I think it's this— in this business is all— I like to call it calculated risk, right? You really have to know your numbers because if you don't, it's just a bad experience. You could be underwater. It could be an alligator thing. It's just— it's not an easy business. I love it, but you really have to know your numbers. You got to get in your spreadsheets, run your scenario. On that note, do you underwrite, okay, worst case, I guess not for arbitrage, but for purchasing, hey, if I had to long-term rent it, it has to work at that, or you just assume if you do your research, it's going to be a midterm and it'll be good if you've done your research?

Yeah, basically if I'm going to go buy a property and I already have a specific goal in mind, like this is what this property is for, I'm going to go look for a property just for this and that. Now, of course, if something happens and midterm renting isn't working out, I already know that I can still do long-term renting. It might not be as much money, but I know I can still do that. So I'm okay either way.

Okay, cool. Thank you so much for sharing all your knowledge and all your experience. A couple like wrap-up questions. This is like a broad one, so you can take it however you want.

Okay, cool.

What top business or life advice would you give someone to you know, be in the business. Like, we get into this right for freedom, I think, right? Ultimately. So yeah.

The main thing I would say is yes, we get into it for freedom and flexibility, but pace yourself. Don't scale too fast. Give the business time to show you what it will do. And when I say that, I'm looking, I'm like, the first thing that pops to my head is maybe seasonality, depending on where you are. You might have a slow season. So You may want to have a property for a full year so you can see what happens throughout the year. Is it going to be slow in the winter? Do you need to drop prices? And if you do, then okay, you need to make that up in the spring and summer. So pace yourself. Don't go too fast in jumping out and getting multiple properties back to back until you are clear on what's happening in the market and the changes and how you're going to manage those things. That would be the best advice I would give.

I love that. And the seasonal thing, it's not— I'm dealing with that. I've got a couple turnovers and there's definitely the prime times or spring, summer, winter is what you got to massage your price a little bit.

Oh yes, definitely. I've had to decrease my prices in the winter on multiple properties. I've had to decrease prices and I'm not even making like my minimum profit that I would like to make. But then again, I'm like, but I'd rather make something versus coming out of my pocket and paying for this stuff. Altogether. So if I have to lower, it is what it is. We'll raise it back up when we know there's more of a demand.

Yeah, no, for sure. Awesome. All right, so what's your superpower and how do you like use that in your business, or how does that help you?

I think my superpower is probably organization. I'm very— I can compartmentalize things very easily. Okay, boom. If I'm setting up 4 properties at one time I have to be organized. I'm ordering stuff. I'm ordering for all 4 properties. I need to know what's going where, different decor, different— yes, my superpower is being organized and really being able to put everything in its place.

That is so true because you— there's a lot of moving parts, especially onboarding a property for sure.

Oh yes. Yes.

So I think we're all in this industry, any industry that we're always like, I love to learn. Is there like a podcast or a book that you love that you've read recently or just your go-to?

I have not read anything recently, I'm gonna be honest about that. My thing, I really don't even look out there at midterm rental stuff, even if it's like YouTube and things like that. I just don't go look at other people's stuff. Don't ask me why, I don't know if it— yeah, I don't know, I just go with the flow. And as far as what I like to do. Typically, I'm going to go to YouTube and look at some video about travel. That's, that is what— that's my thing. If somebody's showing me something about Panama or Mexico or whatever it may be in the world, I'm watching that. I know that might not be the answer you're looking for because you're probably like, why aren't you looking at real estate stuff? But I'm like, I get burnt out on real estate stuff. I gotta deal with this every single day. When I have some downtime, I don't want to think about it, honestly. I just want to chill.

I think that's important. It goes back to your why. Like, why are we doing this? Because you can travel, right? You have that flexibility. So no, I— it's— we can't always— we have to stop and pause and relax. It's really important, which is hard to do sometimes.

Yeah. And traveling is— that's my passion, really. Like, I love it. If it's an addiction That's my addiction. So yeah, that's what I do in my downtime. I'm trying to learn things about different countries, cultures, whatever it may be.

And I think you can make it work. Like, you can travel and you get to some operational pieces, but that is the beauty of this kind of business. It's possible, right? You're not stuck at a desk.

Oh yeah, definitely. I was in Bali in October. Yeah, October. And so Yeah, if you just have that person there, here, or wherever your property is that you can call in case of an emergency, that's all you need. That's all you need. I mean, my properties were already filled, so an emergency actually did come up and I just made a phone call. Can you take care of this? And it was handled. So, um, and then I also— I'm able to get calls internationally as well, so that helps as well. You definitely need to make sure you have yourself set up so that you can still communicate and do business and do what you need to do whenever you're away.

But yeah, I think it's just who's the person to call. Like, you're not going to go fix that hot water. You're going to call someone even if you're in the— in town. You're not going to get my tool belt out.

Exactly.

I'm not. I don't know.

Exactly.

So, you know what, I love that. Okay, last question. How can people like follow you, work with you? I know you have a course, all that good stuff.

Yeah. Okay. So I am on Facebook and Instagram and YouTube and TikTok. You can find me @mskelliemichelle, M-S-K-E-L-L-I-E-M-I-C-H-E-L-L-E. So that's my handle on all of those. So my YouTube channel, I am giving a lot of information about midterm rentals and providing what I can provide to you guys. Then I also have my self-study course, so that teaches people from beginning to end how to get into midterm rentals, get a property, get it set up, and get somebody in it. Booked. Just, it's really like for those people who are starting out, this is your good entry. This is giving you your foundation, get into the business and you grow from there. So I do that as well. And then I also do private coaching, one-on-one coaching. That's usually for people who are already in the business and they need some assistance or they have specific questions and we just knock those answers out or give them the help they need, whatever that may be.

Awesome. I'll include all that in the show notes. Thank you so much, Miss Kelly. Was really— it was fun. This was a good conversation. I really enjoyed it.

Oh, thank you. Thank you for inviting me once again. I had a great time today.

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