Why Private Money is the Key to Scaling Your REI Portfolio with Michelle Bryan

Guys, you can't do anything alone if you're wanting to build this and build a legacy, an empire, a small nest egg, uh, for your children, for your cause, everybody. You have to do this with others, right? And so all of those limiting beliefs made me realize I'm not borrowing money. I'm giving people an opportunity to partner with me.

Welcome to the She's Got Assets Real Estate Investment Podcast. I'm the host, Shona Leppis. Follow along as we unpack and demystify real estate investment strategies through expert interviews and personal experience. From how to find off-market deals to creative financing to long-term and midterm rentals, we aim to educate and inspire others to gain financial freedom and generational wealth through real estate. And as always, please subscribe so you never miss an episode. We really appreciate reviews. It helps others find us. And it just helps us get found. Hey, welcome to the She's Got Assets podcast. I'm Shana Leppis, your host. I have a really awesome guest here, Michelle Bryan. She is doing really innovative stuff in private money lending, midterms, just general, like, legit entrepreneur. Welcome.

Hi, Maggie.

Yeah, I'm so excited. I've been stalking you online. I have so many questions and I just love, I love your messaging. I love what you have to say. So I'm excited to share it with our audience. So yeah, just maybe give like the nutshell background and then we'll dive into the nitty-gritty stuff.

Yeah. My name is Michelle Bryan. You can follow me anywhere @mystorymichelle. The reason why I have that handle is I hope my story will inspire you to continue to build your legacy and anything that you are looking to do. Right now I'm in the season of real estate, building my, uh, legacy that way as well. But I've been an entrepreneur for over 15 years. Yeah.

I love that. I think legacy is a word we throw around a little cavalierly, right? What does that mean to you? Because I think we all know that we don't define it often, right?

Yeah. So I decided to come back home. I've had other companies and I, I was, it was during the COVID time, which was the best time for me in my opinion, cuz it allowed me to actually be still. And a lot of times almost what, a year, 2 years depending on where you were in the state. But I was in Miami, Florida at the time, so I think COVID was only like, and then, okay, we have to file some legions. And I remember what I thought at that time was successful. At that time I was in private jets and yachts and all of that, but I was laying in still silence and I had my dog and I said, you know what? There's more to life than just money. And I said, and I want to impact the world in some way because if I die tomorrow, what am I leaving behind? And so at that point I did, I always do these major shifts and, um, I had a construction company back home, back in Florida, and San Antonio, Texas is my home. So I decided that I wanted to start to get into real estate. Didn't even know I was a contractor. I didn't even know anything about real estate at that time. My assumption is that you had to show up with a briefcase full of money to buy it. Correct. I thought, I'm like, ew, I would, hard money lenders were like the mafia. And so I'm like, do I have to show up like with $1,000, $100,000? And oh my God. And I didn't know about leveraging money then. I didn't even know about any of that. And so I remember coming back home and telling my mom like, there has to be a better way for us to leave a legacy and leave things behind. Little did I know, we actually come from a real estate investing background. My grandfather was an OG in it. When he passed away, we found out he had land, he had businesses, he was doing seller finance, owner. I'm like, why wasn't I with grandpa when I was younger? But I didn't know that I was going to become an investor. And so at that time I told my mom, I'm like, you're a 9-to-5er, and I totally respect that, but we have to have something. And so legacy for me, we don't have, my fiancé and I don't have children right now. And for a long time I was trying to figure out what my why was. Like everybody talks about know your purpose, know your why. And I'm like, I don't know. I just know I work hard and I'm just doing what I gotta do to survive. And so what I've realized is the legacy I want to leave behind is if I can impact one person, which we've done so many in what we do, midterm rentals, but if I could just do that and I know that I can inspire someone, that is what I want to leave behind. I want people to know, wow, I'm not trying to save the world, but Michelle saved a little bit of her own little world. So wrong-winded answer, but I hope it answers it. It did.

But you know, I love that cuz I, I, I know that's, that gets you outta bed and makes the calls you don't wanna make.

Right.

And I've struggled with that. And actually Pace Morby came to town and I was the person that was like, hey, I have a question. And basically the gist of, I was like, I'm looking to start teaching people. And he's like, you need to start a movement. Right. And what's my movement? And to me, I know I, So passionate about buy and hold. Like everyone's like, flip and wholesale. I'm like, that's a job, that's not investing. And I, that's my passion is like owning assets and, right. And I know that you're all about that too, so I'd love to hear your two cents on that. 'Cause we don't talk about that enough.

Yeah. I always say I don't buy purses, I buy houses. So that, I need to get a shirt so we can get to 'em forever. It's so true. Yeah. One of the things is when I decided to get into real estate investing, And I was already a little bit longer in my entrepreneur journey where, and this is something I told my mom when we decided to partner together, I said, there's just one thing that you have to, it's a non-negotiable. I don't want to go and just chase the money. I want to make sure whatever I'm doing and the 14 hours that we work every single day, the 60 hours we put in, it is truly for a reason. And it has to be aligned with my purpose and it has to be giving back or some type of value in my life. And so for me, I knew, of course, when you first start in real estate, they're like, get into wholesale, get into fix and flipping. And it's crazy because I was like, that's not what I want. But I didn't know buy and hold is a, it, it's a long-term game. And I also, there is the struggle. We all know that it's the ups and downs and the pivots, and you just have to be able to work with that. But it eventually will start to pay off because my biggest thing, Shawna, is I've realized I have options right now. And when I say that, okay, midterm rental is awesome. We've been doing it for 5 years, uh, close to 5 years. We're looking to scale and grow. And so I'm pulling some of my midterm rentals out and putting that because we have 14. I think that's, it's a property management job in itself.

Mm-hmm.

The thing for us is we're still early enough in the game that there's not as many people out there, but we're coming into a pivotal moment in the next couple of years, which is actually right now. I don't know If you agree to this, everybody's leaving short-term rental, coming into midterm rental. And so we are, we don't have an actual good operator. I haven't found one just yet in the San Antonio market that can be able to run all our 14 rentals the way we have so far. We are gonna continue to do MTR, but we're gonna put some of these into lease options. Which rent-to-own. We're gonna put some of these in owner finance. Some of 'em are gonna go into Section 8, and then I'm still gonna always have a little bit of midterm rentals 'cause I do love the impact that we're doing. But that it, we're doing that to be able to continue to scale into commercial, into other things. And so what I love about buy and hold, you have options. And yes, it's a slower game. Yes, you, you don't feel like it the first 5 years. Is this gonna pay off or not? But it eventually does because one of the things I've always said is, God forbid something happens to my mom or something, there's an ill and life happens, we can sell all our real estate and be able to take that and be able to care for whatever we need to do and what we're doing. So, yeah.

100%. I just, I underlined options when you said that, cuz that's to me what it It is like we've had ups and downs and if it wasn't for our huge air quotes passive non— but what I love about midterm, and I do agree there is definitely a shift, it's on the map. Like when we both, I've heard you say this, like I was like, I'm doing hybrid strategy. I don't, there was no name for it. I thought, and it's just, it's been around forever, but it's been branded. But I guess what's my point here? Options. And I think with midterm you can actually have your cake and eat it too with the right kind of property and the right marketing. But it is more, and you do have to up your game as far as if someone says traveling nurse one more time, I'm like, there's, I'd say maybe outta the 5 years and I don't know how many stays, but I think we've had one and there weren't even nurses.

They were, because we just, we buy the, we buy houses. We did get a quad flip last year, but it's, it was doctors I think that stayed with us. And I will be honest and I love my medical field, but they were a little bit more higher maintenance than my insurance, than my relocation or my military. 'Cause that's, we're a military city, so we get a lot of those. But yeah, I, when people hear it, I think when I first started it was called medium rentals, right?

Yeah.

PR, and now there's a new buzz going around. Is it IMTR? Now everybody's saying insurance midterm rental, and I'm like, okay.

I have not heard that.

Well, yeah, I, there was someone that Ryan Bonetta was interviewing and they're like, yes, it's a new thing. It's IMTR. I'm like, what's IMTR? And I'm like, oh, insurance. I'm like, no, it's not a new thing, but okay.

I feel like everything is just branded, right? Like house hacking is now like co-living and everything. It's got this name, but nothing, there's no new. You know what?

No, I need, we bring it back to Feast Morbius. I'm actually part, I'm a part of his community as well. So crazy because he's a great marketer. Is he a great person? Does he know how to build a community? 100%. But he's a great marketer and he knows how to brand. And that is what we're in. Like I said earlier, like 2025 for me is branding because when I started raising money a few years ago, people, we all do it. Think about it. You go and you go Google someone, you go and figure out what their IG is, you go and go onto their socials. And that is the world that we live in. And I used to be very much against it before. Um, and I remember someone telling me, because I was like, no, I don't wanna brag. I don't wanna be on there. I have a private life. I don't want people coming in. And, and I think it was a fear of the haters, which honestly, and if I do have haters, my marketing team, which is my fiancé, he either blocks them or I don't see it. Because I probably, I am an introvert, I probably would be like, I've never posted it yet. But I had someone in my, one of my other masterminds tell me, stop being selfish. And I said, what do you mean? He goes, you're being selfish because you are speaking to your 4-year-ago person. And by giving them that advice could help them learn from the mistakes that you made or help them be able to do what you're doing. Don't you want people to get into what you're doing and share, be able to share those experiences and help their families? And I just, he's like, stop thinking it's about you. It's not. And I'm like, okay. And it's true. Think about it. We're doing this because we wanna spread the word. We want people to go and be investors. And nowadays, like, we're, we have the ability I feel like just by networking that we can get into real estate so much faster. Now we have buying businesses, right? I don't think ever 10, 15 years ago did I ever think about that that was an opportunity for me. But building a community and like-minded individuals and being able to, there's just so much knowledge at our fingertips that before I don't think was available. Like it was like, no, these are in the good old boy club and you can't have access to it. Now it's, it's betterly if you really want it, getting into your community, getting into your masterminds, getting, getting into people, the rooms of people who are truly wanting to help you move forward. And it's crazy because I'm starting one of my, I'm starting a community myself and I'm starting to see. How quickly people's mind shift changes and how it's just by giving them the encouragement and saying, you can do this. Let's cut out the limiting beliefs and let's like move forward. But you have an accountability partner right next to you.

I love everything. I'm like taking notes. I'm like, oh, I want to deep dive in. But just quick anecdote, like I remember we've been like very long-time landlords and I was so secretive. I'm like, what if someone finds out we've Like really meanly. What was that?

I hear you say that all the time, that you were so like secretive, like you were ashamed of, and I want people to know, 'cause I guess landlords have a bad rep. I don't know.

I think when I'm in Portland, it's very liberal, right? And then I, I was a couple years ago, I'm like, I'm one of the good ones, I'm gonna talk about it. So I always say that to encourage anyone because like we are in a people business and we can't ask for private money or make connections if we're not talking about what we're doing. We can't be like the stalkers online. So I, it's just, and it's just talk about what you're doing, right? That's how you— I didn't set out to be this midterm person. I'm like, I found this thing, you guys, like, it's really cool. I felt like I discovered something cuz I didn't know anyone else doing it, right? Back a couple years ago, I went from Airbnbs and then COVID hit and I'm like, okay, that's just for the birds, right? But I think it's real, and branding, I think is, and I think we overthink it, right? I've changed my name so many times. I, I don't know what your thoughts are. I think it's about being authentic and just talk strategic, but not, we get really in our heads about it.

I think so as well. I think the main thing that I always tell people is whatever your season in your life that you are today, just know that you want someone to know what you're doing, like what you're, what you're— so when they say, oh, Michelle, right now it's raising capital. People, I want people to know that I'm the money girl. I want people to know that I could help you get into finding the money. But 2 years ago, or 2 years ago, it was midterm rentals. Oh, Michelle does the, this thing of midterm rentals, transitional housing. I don't know. And it's just, Branding yourself into this, I always say the season that you're in. It's crazy because just a few days ago, a, you know how Facebook always gives you reminders? A reminder came up of a year ago and it was me talking, like you said, just telling your story, saying, hey guys, I'm raising capital if you wanna be part of my deals. And I looked at it and I'm like, you know what? It's awesome to be reminded because I, today, and I think a lot of us think this, I feel like sometimes I'm not moving fast enough, but I saw that video from a year ago and how much I have grown from a year ago on my confidence, on the relationships, on being able to now be a coach and teaching people how to find money. It's just crazy seeing that. And I put that in, I put that in the actual caption. I just said, it's good to look at this because it can be a negative side too. Are you truly growing? Are you still standstill and saying, I want to go do that thing, or I still want to go out there and do something? And it's time is always against us. So why sit here and say and be on the fence and just take action? Never gonna be perfect. I know, I'm sure you have a lot of stories of mistakes you made, but it's learning lessons, right? And real estate is definitely one of those that be a costly learning lesson.

Everyone's, they do the really bad flip. I have not done this personally, but it's like they do and they call it a learning experience. And then, you know, they start out wholesaling, they realize that's the job. And then like, let me do a flip and they typically lose money, the ARV, whatever it is. And I'm just like, can you just jump to the, what I, my, I think my mission, we have capital, we have assets we can typically leverage. We just don't think about it. And so I think there's so much just I just want people to skip. You do that, but don't just, don't, there's never gonna be a perfect pile of money that shows up on your doorstep, right? To get buy and hold. And I think that's what we're all wait. I go to meetups and they don't even own their owner occupied. I'm like, that's where you start, get your owner occupied and then you start building the equity. And yeah, I clearly, yeah.

For me, like when I hear people, when I hear real estate investors, saying that they have properties paid off, which is awesome and amazing, but yet they don't, can't get to the next property 'cause they don't have any money. Because what I know now, I cringe of like, you have equity, let's tap into it. And, and, and then building those strategic ways how to do it. That's how I got into private money lending, Shana. It was, I, it wasn't that I needed it for a deal. I had 5 refinances that I needed to do and I was doing the BRRRR strategy like no other person. Until the BRRRR strategy didn't work for me. And I don't recommend that for someone that first starts out. If you are going to scale like crazy, I did, I would not recommend scaling the way I did. I bought 19 properties in my first year. I don't know what I was thinking. It was a lot, right? And I'm like, I, I don't know what I was thinking, but we got through it. And my point is that I got to the point that I had to do 5 refinances and the banks were just like, 80% loan to value, 80% until this November they went down to 65%. That's— and I already had midterm rent again, and I already had midterm rentals going. People, there were already tenants staying in there and I'm like, I know I did my numbers right. What did I do? Oh my God. And the banks were like, I don't know what's going on. This was back in 2020. It was just recently, it was back in 2022, 2023. And I, that's when I had to lean on my mentor, my network. And I, at that time, I was like, I had money from other businesses and other things that I was putting in my own money. And I was putting, they always want you to put 20%. I'm over an overachiever. And I was like, I'm gonna put 35%, I'm gonna put 40%, I'm gonna run outta money. And that's when I ran outta money. And so we were supposed to get $220,000 back. We ended up having to come to the table with $89,500 or I was gonna lose all these 5 houses. And that was gonna be loss of mom's retirement money. That was gonna be loss of all the money I got from my other businesses. That was going to, it was gonna be devastating. And at that point, that's when I had to shift my focus and I had a fiancé, Vin, ended up telling me, he's, you're gonna run outta money eventually, but go do your thing. And then when you do, come back. And at that point, Oh, my man, he introduced me to someone and they said, you need to learn how to capital raise. The greatest thing is you have equity, you have options. You don't need to go and sell your properties. You have equity in your properties, go leverage it. And so my capital raising was not going into a fix and flip. It was leveraging my properties to save my 5 properties that I was about to lose if I couldn't come up with the money.

That sounds like a really pivotal moment. I think a lot of people would've been like, real estate sucks, I can't do this. That's all whatever you wanna say. But was it your mindset or you seem like a very determined person, like with that you took a really scary thing and turned it into something amazing. And I think that's what we have to keep in mind.

Yeah, no, I, trust me, during that time it was the fear. It was what did I do wrong? I can't believe I did this. Did I scale too ask, who do I think I am? Why would I even get into this real estate game? Who the heck talks about buy and hold? You should have— all or a thing, right? Just to put you down. But one of the things I've learned over the years, Shana, is okay, Michelle, get your pity party, get into that mode, but get out of it.

Mm-hmm.

Because it's not happening to you, it's happening for you.

Mm-hmm.

What you learn And the biggest thing, and right now I'm going through this season, and the biggest thing for me, whenever I feel stuck, whenever I feel my business isn't scaling, whenever I feel that a change needs to happen, I start to go and network. I start to get into the rooms that maybe other people, whatever they're doing. And when I'm doing real estate, I start to go out to the communities I'm part of. I start to network because for me, what fills my cup is having conversations like this, having conversations maybe with people that are new, and then it reminds me I was once there and knowing that I can give them a little bit of nuggets fills my cup to know, okay, you know what, I'm doing something right. I have learned, because I think a lot of times we forget what we've learned, what we, what we. What we've overcome and what we've overcame. So yeah, definitely during that time it was like, no, I can't lose this. Like, I know I did it right. I just gotta figure it out. And so when talking to someone way more seasoned than me, we looked at the portfolio and he says, you don't have a lot of time, but you need to execute. And I think a lot of us entrepreneurs, we're always in flight or fight mode, right? And so it's get going, let's get it going. We did, we were able to do it. And that was my entry into raising capital. And then I'm like, there's people around me that will lend me money. What? This is a thing? And these were normal people. These are, I call 'em the Main Street lenders. Like they're just normal people and they're like, I love what you're doing. What do you like? What is like, 'cause obviously you gotta tell your story. And it said, we provide midterm rentals, we provide for displaced families, we, and they're like, I want to be part of that movement. And I want to be part of that. And if I could be able to help you to get that home or help you stay in that home in my situation at that time, why not? And then I can earn money on my return. I can earn interest on my money. Why not? And ever since then, that's how we buy everything as far as real estate. We put no money of our own money in. We have the private lender partners that they come into the deals and they feel good cuz we tell them, oh, because of the money you are providing us, we were able to help 4 families this year. We were able to do we were able to help and these individuals stayed with us. And so that's how we have to think of it. And those, if anybody, we all, Georgia's nature, most people I think, um, want to know that they're helping and they don't have to help by owning the real estate. They can help by providing you the funds and you own the real estate and it's a win-win for everyone.

100%. So many things. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I do wanna circle back to the networking community and being in the right rooms. Like my secret mission is to break into the boys club because real estate is so, like, it shouldn't matter, but like it's, you have to, and you have to go to these things and get comfortable and talk to people. And it's taken me a long time and I finally feel like I'm pretty comfortable just talking to everyone. But yeah, it's so important. Really, it's a people business. I think we forget that.

Entrepreneurship is a people business. You are your billboard. I'm, as I mentioned, I'm an introvert, right? And so what we have learned, what I've learned over the years is to have an alter ego. So, yes, having that alter ego, I check in with that person before I walk into a room. And that is what, and then the biggest fear when I walk into a room, when you see so many people, and so I networking, I'd love talking about this because Before my entrepreneur years, when I was a W-2er, I was in basically sales and marketing. I was in recruitment, so I had to, I was a headhunter. And so I had to go into these rooms and go and talk to people. And I was in, uh, majority of my career during that time was finance and accounting. There's a lot of men in the finance and accounting world, and it's just a, it's a different thing. But what I've learned is when you go into the rooms, we're all there for a reason to network. For the exception of some people, they're there for the free drink. Well, you're supposed to be there for networking. So I go in and I literally, I do not stay with the first person. Have you ever walked in a room, you get your cocktail, you just go back, you get stuck with them for 30 minutes, an hour, the whole event? But think about this, being in a room, it could be that one person can change your life and change the trajectory of your whole career and your business. So for me, I give myself, I'm very competitive, I give myself a minimum of 5 people when I first start out. Right now mine is 10 to 15 people because I obviously have built the calluses and built this skill set. But at least 5 people when you're starting out, and it's okay to be able to excuse yourself from that conversation. And I don't tell them everything I do. Think about it. We just talked right now. We, we're real estate investors, we're buying holders, we're midterm rental, we're, we're, we're in growing a community. That's just way too much. And so is pick one thing that your superpower is or one thing you're focused on today that you are focused on for the next 30 to 45 days of what you're trying to grow. Like, mine right now is growing my community. And so everybody knows that I'm all these other things, but I'm getting in the coaching seat, which I commend you because it is hard. And it's not hard to coach, it's hard to bring people in to understand I'm going through that season in my life, and that's what 2025 is. 2025 is about being a service provider, being, uh, of service for me. Do I still have my real estate? Am I growing my real estate? Yes. So when I'm walking into these rooms today, it's very, it's probably very different than when I was walking a year ago. I know it's different, but I challenge you when you walk into these rooms, And now you said that you're comfortable with it, but anyone that's listening, just go in and be able to have a conversation and give yourself no more than 10 minutes and say, I'd love to get your information. What basically is, what are you currently working on? What is it that you're currently working on? And whoever you're speaking to, how often are you working? Okay. And so they'll say that. And say, okay, and what is your biggest challenge right now? Because I think a lot of times, and I, if I hear one more person say this, I want to have a call with you so I can pick your brain. I'm like, you are—

I just want to feel like my brain is be like bloody.

You're not Susan Adler, so no, you're not picking my brain. And we're all— it's not about picking brain, it's about adding value. So I'm— challenge right now, which is a pretty crazy, it's networking, but it's a pretty crazy challenge. I want to talk to 100 new people in 2 weeks. I'm part of, uh, Peace Warby's group. So 100 new people in 2 weeks. That means I gotta be short, quick, and on the phone. I have 20-minute calls, like today I have 10 this afternoon. And so 20-minute calls, you better know, you're having to know exactly what to say and you gotta dial it in. And honestly, when we're networking, what is your currently, what are you currently doing? What is your biggest challenge? And then why do I ask what your biggest challenge is? Is that maybe I know someone that can help you out because that's the beauty of networking. So what is your biggest challenge? And then I tell you what I'm currently working on. I don't tell you I have midterm rentals, I'm trying to do owner I am working on this, right? I'm working on this and my biggest challenge is this. And thank you so much for meeting you. Let's exchange business cards. Let's change— in Texas, they're still using business cards. I don't know why, but let's exchange information. And I, if you don't mind, Shawna, we will have a virtual coffee in the next couple of weeks so we can get a deeper dive. And have a little bit more intimate conversation. It's pretty loud in here, right? If you excuse, I'm going to move to the next. I'm going to go and network some more. That is the easiest way to be able to get in a conversation. Excuse yourself, but you have to do it because we've all been there. There's times that I'm so tired and burnt out and I go to a networking event and I'm like, why am I here? I'm so tired. I don't want to talk to anybody. Let me just be here. And, but not do anything. Guys, we don't have enough, like we work so hard as entrepreneurs, or if you're a W-2 and you have children, like these super moms that are out there, make everything intentional. You can't, and just because, and I think for me when I was like, we don't have to, oh, I went to an event or I've been busy. Have you been busy growing your business or have you been busy just doing nothing? And that's what we have to really think about because honestly, I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna do this Challenge 100, like 100 people in 2 weeks. I was like, I gotta talk to 7 people a day in order to hit that. Like I had to do my, I'm overanalyzed and numbers girl and I was like, I don't know how I'm going to do this because my day is so quote unquote busy. But you know what? I made the time because I have to really calculate your time. You have to do an audit of your really, of your busy work. Think about that. Auditing your time. How many times, our phones do it for us now. How many times we're on social media? How many times are we just scrolling? We're doing the scrolling thing and we're not growing our business. So there's a lot of people that say, I just don't have time. I'm sure we can find time if we did some, an audit of your day.

100%. Yeah, that is, that's also valuable. And I think that kind of leads into the relationship building and community because when you go to ask for private money, right? If you are some unknown quantity that no one's heard of, that you're not out there, like it is, it's trust. So I'd love to deep dive into that and specifically, so I don't know if it was the mentorship I did. A lot of the PMLs have been conditioned for like very short-term loans, like high points, and that's not always sustainable for a hold, which is until you refi out of it. So I love your kind of perspective on how to position that.

100%. So all my properties are buy and holds. I don't have any fix and flip, and all my properties are private money lenders are on them at some type of capacity. To make a very high overview, most of my private money lenders, there's a difference between being in a first lien position and a second lien position. Typically, whoever brings the most money to the table for that asset is going to be the one that's in the first lien position. Usually when you're buying and holding, it's going to be a 30-year note, a 30-year mortgage of some sort that's going to be in that first lien position. A lot of people are like, I can't find someone that will go into second lien. I will tell you, and again, high overview, you can still be protected being in a second lien position and you just, it'll do some damage if God forbid the end or the borrower runs away with your money or doesn't actually fulfill their legal obligation and They're giving your money back. So a lot of what we do is we raise capital for second lien position. Do I run into people that say, oh, I only want to be in first lien? I do run into some private money lenders. I think we talked about this the other day. A lot of the material that's out there and what I also do is teach people how to go find the money. I think the biggest thing is there are a lot of people that want to lend. They just have been burned or not educated properly. And what I teach my students and what I say is 80% of what you're doing is educating your potential lender and building a relationship. And 20% is the deal. If you have a good deal and you have a good asset and there's equity in there, that will come, that will fall into place. You have to, because one of the things is you have to be an ethical borrower. I think a lot of times people don't realize that the $40,000, that doesn't seem a lot to you because you're buying $100,000, $200,000, $300,000 property could be the life savings of one, your private money individual, that it took them 25 years to save that money. So you have to really know what you're doing when you're getting— get borrowing money and giving people opportunities. And I say opportunities because borrowing, we always say you don't want to borrow. It's not borrowing money. It's giving your private money lenders opportunity. So a lot of times when I first get a private money lender and I've educated them and we've built a relationship, by the way, if someone today talks to me and wants to learn about private money lending, and I have 3 deals, usually always happens, 3 deals tomorrow, they're not my lender on it. I want to build relationships and long-term. I do not want anyone when I'm raising money to feel that they're just a number to me. Like all my lenders, like we have relationships, we, these are when we're paying the interest only, like we're understanding that's their mailbox money, that sometimes their money for what they need every single month. So a lot of our lenders wanna come in in a year and they only want 12 months. And so the answer to the question is, okay, I'm gonna shop, I'm gonna give an example, $50,000. They're gonna lend to you for gap funding or whatever that looks like. And then in 12 months, no, my, my actual rental is not gonna cash flow $50,000 for the year. Right? It's not gonna happen. That'd be nice. Even in mid-to-rentals, the gross could be $50 grand, but not after you have to pay your first lien holder.

Mm-hmm.

You do. So here's what you do. There are a couple of options, right? You can refinance, which is not typical of what we do, or you can refinance with another private money lender. Meaning you go find someone else, you could pay them out. And what happens during the full year of you owning that property?

They love it. They want the mailbox money, right?

But our equity gets bigger.

Mm-hmm.

Right. Our tenants are paying down our note. So you never want to over-leverage your properties, but Typically when those notes are due, the 12 months is, is coming up, you got a little bit more equity in your property. So you're able to pay back that interest depending on how you have your terms, right? There's different, you could pay your interest only back, but you'll be able to pay that principal back and you can get someone else that has a, wants an opportunity and to be able to buy them out. So you're refinancing, but you're refinancing with a private money lender. Now here's this beauty, Shara, of when you do right by your private money lenders. Our average private money lender stays with us, and it's only because we've been raising money for 4 years. On average is 3 years, 3.5 years.

Mm-hmm.

I have only had private money lenders leave if they're wanting to go out there and do what the crazy of what we're, the 1%ers are doing, and they're like, oh, I wanna go buy property. I've had them leave if there's a financial circumstance or there's something, a major alteration in their life. And absolutely, like, they, we give them their funds back. But other than that, they are like, wow, like, I love working with you guys. I'm getting my mailbox money. And where's the mailbox money coming from, guys? They're coming from the rental. So it's coming from the money that comes in from your 2x of what you're typically— 2x of what you are making in your midterm rentals. And the beauty of it is that you didn't have to come out all out of pocket for these particular— for it when you're purchasing the property. So it's a win-win situation. Now there's other things of how you can be able to pay off your private money lender a little bit faster, and that's what we're doing now. What we have done is we have other businesses that we, we run and we're able to pay back these private money lenders, but I'm paying them back so that they can still be my private money lenders, but on bigger deals or other opportunities. So once you build these relationships, you have these relationships for life and they grow with you depending on what you're wanting to do. And so that's our, the way we do our game plan. But I hope that answers the question because that is a question I get a lot. Like, how do I pay back the $50,000 in one year?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And just the beautiful thing about PML or owner carry or whatever thing is there's no banks and the money stays in the community and it's okay. So I love that. I wanted to ask about like the deal structure. Are you putting them in second? Is it DSCR in first or what kind of like, is it conventional or unless it's How are you structuring that? I'm curious.

Yeah, so most of ours are DSCR loans, or not most, all mine are DSCR loans. So that is an investor loan for, and we were just having that call earlier today. So those loans are a little bit easier for us to get into as investors. And yes, so the DSCR loan sits in first position and then second lien position is the, is going to be the shorter quote unquote term. Sometimes we have, once you build this confidence and when you understand about how money works, most of our lenders are now coming in for 2 years. I've had some that want 5 years. So we buy creative deals ourselves. So we buy subject-to deals and we also need money to be able to have our gap and our closing and so forth. Some of those individuals that we build long-term relationships we know we're already 3 years in, we'll do a 5-year note. And that's a lot, a lot really helpful for us because it, in 5 years you should be able to pay back, right? Or 5 years you could possibly refinance and get a cash-out refi and then get them paid back. So, um, yes, DSCR usually is. However, I do know people that have conventional loans and they do the same thing.

Okay. Yeah. I remember, I don't know, 5 years ago we had done this big refi and had this pile of like money and I, no one would get— I'm like, there's gotta be a product. And then we stumbled on DSCR and I was like, oh, this is like amazing. It was like back before it was like new anyway. Okay. I have to ask about interest rate. There's a lot of variables that— do you have any typical numbers that you're like offering for like a 1 or 2-year note? I'm just curious.

Yeah. It depends on who the lender is. And I say this because we are always, and this is just sales 101, we're always real quick to give what our thing is versus asking, let's just go with midterm rentals because you, that's your community. But we always ask that question, right? What's your budget? You don't just throw up and say, oh, we'd like $50,000. Not $6,600. Yeah, because today was a good example of what I told you. We bought an account that is, it's a smaller unit, it's a 1/1, and we can rent it out comfortably around $2,100 to $2,200 a month for midterm rental. I would've just, I said, hey, $2,200. I would've lost the potential of what she told me her budget is for this client, and it's a relocation specialist that called me and she told me, oh, comfortably going underbid, $3,000 is the budget in order for us to be competitive. $3,000 a month, you know, would I've shot myself in the foot? 100%. So it's the same thing that goes when you're building a relationship with private money lenders. Majority of the time, the private money lenders I speak to are new lenders. They are business owners. They are people that have money in 401(k)s that are just not doing anything. They're recent retirees. And so I always ask them, what, what are you currently making? Because our, our biggest goal is to make sure that their money's making more money than where it, where it's currently at. And to buy real estate. And that is the beauty of it. So I've had 8% with people that are non-experienced, 8% annualized. One of the things I say is KISS, that's one of our things, keep it super simple. Because if you're like, ah, let's do an amortization, let's do points, let's do all, you make it too complicated. And let me tell you, your technical is gonna scare someone that wants to Like they don't know ARV. No, you have to know that as a borrower. You better know your numbers and you better know if something hits the fan, what are you gonna do? You're probably gonna lose the property, but don't go, don't get overcomplicated because you overcomplicate things, people are not gonna lend to you. 8% annualized returns. I still get that in today's market. And I say today's market, but I also want to know where the money's coming from. So there's a lot of that. And if it's coming from a HELOC, a home equity line of credit, because some people lend to us on that and they're getting charged 6% from the bank, I'm not going to give them an 8%, right? And so it really, I believe, it just depends on your lender and how you educate them. But it's always asking that question. Just like we ask as investors, what's your buyer's box? It's just, what's your lending box? And most of the time they say, I don't know, I have no idea. So why offer them 15% return or 12% return when they'd be happy with 8%, right? And so it gives you an opportunity to have more cash flow in your pocket. It gives you opportunity to be able to pay them back faster. And it also gives them an opportunity because sitting in a bank account, you make what, 1%? You don't make it. You— I was looking the other day and for 5 years on a CD, I think you're making a whopping 4%. Imagine if they can make 8%, you're doubling that in one year.

And with inflation, you're losing money if it's just sitting there, right? That's the thing.

It's— I don't know if I said on this call, but one of the statistic, there's two True. I'm sorry. There's $3 trillion sitting in 401(k)s not doing anything.

My coach would say there's— they're not being direct. They're self-directed, not being direct.

Right.

Because if you have to actively manage it, if you take it out, it's just, it's losing money.

That number. Yeah. For self-directed, I don't know the exact number, but I know that we— but I do know how much are in 401(k)s and that's how we started. My, let me just give you a kind of a story. So my mom's 401(k) of 25 years, she had $250,000 at one point. Well, she started getting up in age and they knew that she was gonna be retiring, but when she retired, again, we couldn't know if this happened, but when she retired, this is factual, it was down to $90,000. So I learned about how to be someone's bank, meaning mom being a lender, We were able to 8x her 401k, full disclosure, also with owning property, but I 8x her 401k in a matter of 2 years because we learned how she didn't lend to our deals. Because first off, there's some legalities behind that. Didn't lend to our deal. She was lending to other people's deals and we were getting money for our own deals.

Buy.

So it's just a whole thing of knowing how to do that. And she's been able to get her retirement back up. Truth be told, she's still a private money lender. She's a private money lender in other people's deals. So that is what can happen when you're in the private money lending side of it. There are people out there, but I have learned over the years, they've done what we did. They were fix and flippers, they were buying holders, they own properties. So it's almost like a graduation, right? You're wanting to be the boots on the ground, do all the active lifting and all of that. But once you start to build equity in your properties, once you start to have reserves and have, uh, cash, if you're good at reserving those things, you become a lender.

Mhm.

That's passive income.

There's no leaking toilets or like vacancy, right? You just get that. Yeah, it's actually— they don't care.

Yeah, they don't care if the toilet's broken. They're your— yeah, if the tenant stole some of your forks and knives. I don't know why silverware always gets misplaced.

I've had a run with smoke alarms going off at random times. I'm like, we just changed them 2 months ago and guess what, they're dead. I don't know, it just It's my latest. Things going, or washing machines will have a little, oh, there's another one going. What the hell? Okay. But I did, so when I first heard about private money, I was like, they're, and same with owner carry. I'm like, who would do that? And now I know it's out there. People wanna do it. So when, but it's really mindset, right? And so I'd love to hear you speak about that. And it is an opportunity. I think if the, if we have a good deal, the money will come. But that took me a long time to, I don't know, realize that. But that's so important, right? I think it is.

Mindset is the biggest, the one, the first thing that I, you have to, and it's to overcome it. If you're an investor right now, there was some type of mindset that you had to, or a mind shift that you had to, and limiting belief that you had to overcome. This is no different. When I first started, I said, I'm bad by myself. I don't need anybody's money. I'm an independent woman. I'm an entrepreneur. I don't wanna borrow any money. I don't wanna have money overhanging over my head. Because people— I just don't want— no, I want to go and do this alone.

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Guys, you can't do anything alone if you're wanting to build this and build a legacy, an empire, a small nest egg, uh, for your children, for your cause, everybody. You have to do this with others, right? And so all of those limiting beliefs made me realize I'm not borrowing money. I'm giving people an opportunity to partner with me, and I know that I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure that I am a good borrower. What does that mean? Do I get scared on borrowing money? 100%. But I know I could— the thing I would have to do if I don't know how to manage, if I didn't manage it right, or life happens, which it has, I had a contractor that, and I was a previous con— uh, GC, so I know all the questions to ask. I know all the due diligence. This contractor messed up on a deal and I had to communicate with my private money lenders. We went all the way to litig— or not to litigation, but we went into attorneys like this. And at that point I had, uh, from the beginning, and that's the thing is being transparent. Be transparent with your private money lenders. Guys, these are people. They just want to know what's going on, and they have to know that this is a risk. Nothing's guaranteed in life. Just if they're in the stock market, just like my mom's 401(k) was at 250 or however, and it went down to 90 when she got out. It is all because when we have 401(k)s, they're going in the stock market. Someone's managing that money. There's a financial advisor or somebody managing that money. This gives you the opportunity to control and manage your money, to be able to know who you're lending to. And so giving someone an opportunity instead of their money sitting in the bank and make 8% to 12% returns on an annual basis and you have enough money to carve out, why wouldn't they want to? As long as they know that they're protected. And when I started to mind shift and change that mind shift and mindset, I have realized that it has been such an amazing other component of my journey. You're gonna freak out what I'm about to say, but I'm proud of it because I was gonna pay it anyways. As of December of 2024, we paid $483,000 in interest back to our private money lenders.

I was losing.

I was going to pay that to the hard money, to the Chase Bank world, to the DSCRs. I was able to impact somehow, some way, and they were a lot lit, and I was able to still grow my portfolio. And so that is where we're like, the stories we hear from our private money lenders Michelle, you don't understand. $300, $500 a month, cuz we do some interest-only payments. It depends on how you structure it. Like it's impacted our lives. Like it's been able to have where that little money has been able to help me. I'm not the only one they're lending to. They have $500 coming in from every little, every area, which adds up to $2,000.

Okay.

And that's the reason they're okay with that. And they can live off of that in certain places of— and our private money lenders aren't local guys. Like I have maybe one or two. Everyone is through virtual meeting, through relationships. I have them all over, like private money lenders are all over. But I think the biggest thing is being able to educate yourself and educate, knowing how, if everything, it's just like in real estate. Right? We have to go by numbers. We don't go by emotion when we're buying. And if you're going by emotion when you're buying, then you should need to change. You go by numbers. It's the same thing. We're already in a somewhat risk business, but knowing and understanding and always having, I always say, always have 2 to 3 different exit strategies and options, uh, on anything you do. And so when that mind shift changed, it's so crazy because now I sit back in the way that I think now, and this has only been a couple of years, right? But when I think now, raising money is not as scary anymore. It, it is scary when we're raising it. Absolutely. I would never say that, but it's when you hit that goal and that accomplishment. I had a recent student that came through. And she did a 5-day challenge with me. And when we first started, she, and that's usually where we start is the money. And so she said, I don't know anybody with money. Nobody's gonna lend me money. I'm not a real estate investor. I said, okay, now challenge is accepted. Let's talk this out. And she had a property, Midterm Rentals, since she's had that property since 2012. I said, you are a real estate investor now. Did she have it? Where she had, she lived in it before and now she moved and upgraded to another house and she's had it, I think she's had it as a midterm rental, I don't know, for about 4 or 5 years. Most of the people that I, I teach and I educate are in our world, midterm rentals. And 5 days we were able to, 45 minutes a day. So a, a quick cumulative of 4 hours, we went through this framework. By the time on the 5th day, she was able to find $350,000 that people would potentially lend to her on her next deal. And it goes back to what we were saying. She went back to her network. She let them know what she was doing. Hey guys, you know that I've been in mid-term rentals. I'm looking to grow my portfolio. I'm looking for private money lenders that would be able to come in and have an opportunity and earn money on their, on, on their money backed by real estate. Just those small conversations. Absolutely. I've been looking at your Instagram. I've been looking at your, what you've been doing. What midterm rental? How can you? And all you do is tell your story.

Oh my God.

I want to be a part of that. So you're telling me that you're helping insurance places, insurance families, or what Shawna loves is traveling nurses.

Nothing against nurses, but that's just not where Okay. You are—

I'm doing this for you. Absolutely. Tell me when your next deal is and I can help you. Fast forward. I'm so excited for her. Let's talk about maybe 45 days. She just, she joined late December. What, we're in March, so 2 months. And I had to nudge her. She put 5 offers out. She just got one accepted. We're working on her opportunity deck. She's looking to raise money right now. I'm like, go ahead and all the people we've talked to before. And so she's gonna be closing on that deal. And the greatest thing about this property is because she's actually getting it fully furnished. She asked, she asked, can I have staging furniture? I'm like, you have some guts. I don't know if I would've asked that. She asked. And she's using your method of what I've learned from you. She's gonna list it before she even closes on it.

Love it.

And then April, she, and, and in the area, she's in California, in that area, she has another MTR that she already has, the one that she said she was not an investor, that she's had since 2012. And so she knows that area when she was purchasing that area because she's getting a lot of leads in that area. All in the matter of changing her mindset. If that's not a mood knit, I don't know what is.

I love that so much. I even just saying I was an invest— I'd been an investor for a long, since I bought my house, cuz I house hacked it before I knew, I didn't know what that was. That was investing. And I'd had to just really sit with that title and be like, I'm an investor. Cause it felt like a little bit of a, uh, what do you call that when you have a, oh my God, imposter syndrome.

Right?

Even though we are investors, like that's what, when you have an asset that produces income, that's the definition of investor, right?

Um, private money lender's an investor and they don't have to have equity in the deal. They're making money on their money. What is investing doing? Making money on your money. It doesn't have to be your money. But that's the thing is that a lot of our private money lenders, some, not a lot of them, but some of them are like, oh, I'm not an investor. I'm like, yes you are. You, you're making money on your money. You're making it easier. And what I have to deal with right now in my season of life, but I gotta earn the stripes, right? I have to, and I love, uh, we get our, I love what we're doing and how we're growing. But the end game is to be a private money lender. That is our end game. Mm-hmm. Great. We have the real estate doing what it needs to do, but yes. Being able to, and, and that is if you ever really look about it, when you learn this skillset at the level we're talking about right now, we're talking about residential, it is such an amazing skillset to keep growing. Because again, if you have a good deal, the money will come. That could be in commercial real estate, that can be in buying a business, that could be in it in purchasing your other properties. And so learning this skill set and knowing you just got, it's just like when you got, I don't know with your listeners, but when you, and that first house that we all put an offer on, we were so scared.

Terrifying, right? It's like, yeah, really.

And then you did it and it was like, oh, okay. And then you go, easy like me and let me do it 19 more times in 1 year. Please don't do that. Let me do that that many more times in 1 year.

Yeah.

Don't do that. I promise you it was, it took 3 years to really stabilize that portfolio and keep growing. So it was a lot. But anyway, my point is that once you learn it and then it's like, oh, okay. I think the biggest, the greatest feeling is being able to pay that private money lender back. Once that you pay them back and however that it's the payment back and then they're like, okay, I'm ready to lend to you again. And you go and find the next deal. You go and find the next deal. Yeah.

It is really an amazing, when you go to close and there's no bank involved, you're like, yeah, this is, there's like this much paper.

Awful. You know, you make, when you go and close and you have money coming back to you in a wire, Mm-hmm.

Yes. Yes. That is, yeah.

We, the way that we structure our deals, and again, we buy a lot of, now we buy creative, but we structure it for the first scene of the pro— of the property. Like right now with our, with my mentee, right? She is, there's already coming to the table, she's gonna have about, and she got this on market. It was, she she was doing. That's how she did her strategy. A deal fell through, the first offer fell through, so she was a backup offer. She really was strong on her numbers. She's gonna come into it, and this is turnkey, she's coming into it with already equity in the deal. And then the DSCLR loan needs you to put 20% down, so that's an additional equity. And now that she, and this is not everybody's story, but she only needs to buy about $2,500 of the security cameras, the, the linens and the appliance, like, uh, not the appliances, the electronics. So everything, the way we buttoned up her deal, it's still safe for the actual lender. There is still equity in the property. 'Cause that's the biggest thing is that you want to, what if something happens that The person that you put in the second lien position has to have— know that the money— there, there's a way to recover the money, right? God forbid something happens. Anyway, so my point is that she's coming zero outta money. She's gonna have $30,000 deposited into her bank account at closing to be able to go and get the things that she needs to get. And her property, we're gonna—

we're—

I already told her to be able, she'll have a tenant and she'll be cash flowing right before she closes. 'Cause we're being proactive.

That's a beautiful thing. The secret there, the, the thing is like she invested in education and a mentorship. And I think if I hear one more person say you don't need a mentor, like we're both coaches, but we've, I'm sure we've both invested in like gobs of coaching and mentorships and masterminds. And the stuff is simple, but it's not easy. I think it's really important to stress that.

So 7 up to, I think I'm getting to 8 years. So I've been almost 15 years into entrepreneurship. I've always been a very hard worker. I didn't know what mentorship was. If you look behind, I obviously have a lot of books now, but 8 years ago I didn't know what mentorship was. And I'm gonna tell you, I felt alone. I was in the wrong rooms. I downed my success at the time when I was in that, in that, and I was like, I'm always working. I never get to go do what I wanna do. I'm a solo entrepreneur at that time. And it was the best thing someone did for me. I was co— I was actually renting out a space from him in his office, and he saw that I was struggling and he saw, and it wasn't just struggling, I wasn't struggling of the financially and knowing about certain VAs now that we know and employees and how to delegate, just struggling to even have a friend, a network because people did, I was in G, I was a GC at that time. People didn't understand when I said I had $40,000 in payroll I had to pay. Oh, Michelle's bragging. No, I got $40,000 in payroll I have to pay and I don't know how I'm gonna do this. And so I remember I was so excited cuz he was like, let's go on a trip. And I'm like, okay. And this, it's gonna be in Vegas. And I'm like, yes, I'm gonna go to her. This guy's invited me out on a trip. Fiancé knows the story, but obviously at that time I was single and I'm like, shit. We went, it was, it's so funny. We went to a MAPS, so we went to an actual conference. I will tell you that I wish he would've told me because I probably didn't have the actual right attire. I had my phone, so go and buy. Good thing that there's right there, the Forum Shops on Vegas Strip. And I, back then, I think it was like Forever 21, whatever. I had to go buy clothes and book this conference because I was not in the right stuff. And I will tell you, that was the changing point in my life. At that time, Jesse Itzler was on a stage. We had, uh, ET, Eric Thomas. There were, I didn't know any of these people and I'm like, what? And that first time, of course every conference has a mentorship afterwards. It was $10,000 to join that mentorship. And I'm like, I don't have $10,000 to give anybody. Are you crazy? And I told myself. In one year, I'm going to figure it out. Again, limiting mindset, didn't think, and I did. I was like, okay, I'm going to upcharge a little bit more on my services and I'm going to put that money away and I'm going to go ahead and put it into a savings account. So next year when it comes, I'm not going to have an excuse of not doing it because those people are really happy over there and, and they look— want their suit and stuff. And I wish that was the lowest entry of membership in masterminds, because then what happens is you learn when you get into these rooms, guys, people are paying the same that you are. So they are going to want to accelerate, do business and return. I always say when someone joins a mentorship, get in the rooms and see how you can, your return on your investment as soon as possible. And it doesn't have to be money. It could be relationship. I tell you, if I wasn't— oh, I get chills— if I wasn't in a mastermind and know what those are or know what community meant, when I was about to lose those 5 properties, I wouldn't have known who to go to. I would've— my life would've been totally different. And so the crazy part is Vin and I met because of a Mastermind. And so we weren't in the same time, but we had someone, and these are forever life friends. These are entrepreneurs that get it. You can go into these rooms and say, my midterm rental, I'm struggling. I haven't had any bookings. And how quick can someone say, okay, let me just look at your thing. Oh wait, you gotta do a couple of changes here. Look, knucklehead, you didn't put, you know, 30 days, you put it's months. Yeah, because somebody put that in my— like, Pace says that all the time. But anyway, my point is, I have been part of masterminds for every— in my journey. In fact, you and I are part of the same mastermind. We discovered this when we were talking on the phone for our coaching program. We— it's an acceleration, guys, because it helps you. And let me tell you, I know a lot of times people are like, this is— it's so expensive and it's not How much more expensive is it if it's gonna take you to do it on your own?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

You don't, and, and I say really do your due diligence on what coach you wanna partner with. Do your due diligence on who you like. Some people like certain individuals, but yeah, we've talked about college education. Which I didn't go to college, I did, but I didn't graduate. I think I, I've paid over 6 figures, but I can tell you what I've done in 4 years, I don't think I could have done. 'Cause they help you set, they help you with acceleration. You're in the rooms with people that are doing what you're doing, and you're in the rooms with people that have already done what you've done. And they're just, sometimes it's okay, little grasshopper. Yes, it's cute, but you're gonna grow. So you're like, you're stressing because you want to go raise, you want to go raise, it's cute, you want to go raise $50,000, but we all start somewhere, right? Running the gift shop, and then before you know it, then you're saying that a year later, and you're like, oh, I was there. But let me help you, because that's the biggest thing is that when you get part of these communities and these paid communities, not ones that are not, because the ones that are outside the circle, they're gonna hate, they're gonna talk mess, they're gonna say, oh my God, These coaches are charging XYZ. Guys, if everything was free in life, you get what you paid for and you won't take it as serious. I use that analogy. Planet Fitness, to the people that use Planet Fitness, but $10 a month or $15 gym membership, we tend to forget about those. But if you want to go to Orangetheory or you want to get a trainer and you're paying $150 to $250 a month. Subscription, do you think you're likely more to go to that gym membership than you were on the one that's not? That is the same thing. You're paying your way to get into these rooms to get the knowledge and to accelerate and as quickly as possible get your ROI. When I get into a new mastermind or a new community, best believe I'm looking at the whole roster in the list and I'm having conversations with those people. What are you into? What are you doing? How can we help each other? This is my biggest challenge. I'm new. I don't know what I'm doing. Mm-hmm. I need, and, and so that's my whole thing about mentorships and coaching. Like, it has helped me in so many ways. I wouldn't have gotten into real estate. I, I wouldn't have, I would've still been on the fence. Oh, that's too rich for my blood. And I, I don't know. In, and those are for the people that, whatever that would be. Yeah.

I just, I always like to emphasize, and not just cuz I'm a coach and I'm so grateful, I, but I think we often hear, oh, you don't need that. But it's, you know what, you really do. And also just from a strategy perspective, like I think I read every book on the shelf until I had a mentorship. It didn't unlock for me or had someone was walking me through it. Like it just didn't click. And I, I think that's. If you really want to excel at what you're doing, you can take 10 years or get it done really quickly, like your— that case study you just talked about. If I had invested in, uh, figuring out midterm, I've got it down now, but it took me like a couple years to figure out how to get into insurance and how to do proposals on— because I'm like, I can do it on my own. I'm like, now I get it. It took me a long time.

Yeah. And the thing about it is, is that It's so crazy on the numbers of people that join a community and do nothing with it. Yes. Don't do that. Don't be one of those. And in fact, I have an application process and I think you as well, because I don't want somebody joining that's not going to be action takers. Honestly, I really don't. I want you to come in and I want us to work together and I want you to get to your goals. And there are times, and that's why I've been a part of a lot of mentorships, There are times that you outgrow maybe that mentorship program, but what I tell everyone is go figure out what it is that you're looking to skillset or whatever that is to grow in that season that you're currently in and get with someone that is 2 to 3 steps ahead of you. You have no business if you're just starting in real estate to go join, which in, in fact you can't in mo— if most times. A $100,000 mentorship program that you have to have a million, a minimum of $10 million business. You're not going to relate to those individuals. You, if you're starting out in midterm rentals, and that's one thing is why you got to be cautious, right? Go to the people that are actually doing it. Go to the people that actually know because they're going to help you. With the certain mistakes or the certain things that we have gone through. That's what I tell a lot of people like, well, why would you feel that you haven't raised? Because there's a lot of people that have raised hundreds of millions of dollars. And I said, no, but I know that I've raised, and honestly, this is because of mentorships as well. We have raised $5 million in the matter of 2 years, and that is in residential. That doesn't seem like a lot. In the syndication world, in the commercial world, that is a lot for our book of business. And so my, the whole thing is that, I crossed my feet, but the whole thing is that being in the rooms of where you're the 2 or 3 steps ahead and make sure your coach is active. They're actively doing it. I think there's been times that I've wanted a mentor and I've interviewed certain mentors that I wanna know and they're like, yeah, I, I'm just giving you, 'cause it's nothing in our world but Airbnb, short-term rentals. Oh yeah. How many do you have? I only have 3 and I'm arbitraging. I'm like, you're not gonna be the best. So Vince says it very, Vince says it very nicely. He says, I'm not gonna go to my uncle that's been divorced 7 times for marriage advice.

Yeah. Oh my God. That's so funny. Yeah. Yeah. And syndication's like, you're not an owner, you're like a fractional. That's such a difference. That is amazing. And yeah, I just, I'm a big believer in like owning things actually. And because that's not, nothing's full, it's all risky. But yeah, if we, I hope we made our point because I just, I go to a lot of meetups and, and they're all like, you don't need mentors. I'm like, yeah, you don't. But if you wanna get anywhere and if you want it, you also borrow their confidence. Like I've had a coach tell me, go find like $400K in first position. I'm like, who would— well, go find. Okay. I'll— when you find it, it's just like someone giving you permission and you borrow their confidence and you can do it. And sometimes I think as humans we need that, someone telling us what to do, right?

I think that is— we always through our lives have mentors, coaches, teachers, the people in this world, they, What do you think Kobe Bryant was, just did it because he didn't have anybody? No. The other thing is in the accountability aspect of it. Just like you said, we are wired that way, guys, that, oh, if nobody's holding me accountable, then I'm just gonna sneak around or whatever. We all fall into it. We're human. But I believe if you have someone saying, all right, we're meeting on Monday. All right, I'm gonna follow up with you. All right, let's be accountability partners. That is what the acceleration of it is, the acceleration. And then it's such a good feeling because if that's the goal you get, you're trying to get all, we have time that's against us. How do we buy back our time? And that is the reason why. And so when I decide to ever, and it's not like we, we have money set aside every year, I'm going to go ahead and do this mentorship.

No.

I'm going through a season at a time. I get on a call, I get on a webinar, I go to a conference. And anytime that, that, and guys, if you don't, if you've never been a coach, you, and I'm learning this now, it's a lot of time and efforts and putting it together and so forth. So that is why the invest, initial investment is also investing in you and knowing that you're going to do it. But I don't ever say, oh my God, that's so much money. It's how can I be able to afford this and is this going to move the needle in my business? And if I learn this skill set or I learn or I'm part of this community, how fast can I grow and how will that change? You have to be intentional in what you do. I'd imagine if you build that skill set, how quickly you can. I did not have a good mentor when I got into real estate teaching me. I wouldn't have been able to take 19 properties down the first year if I didn't have a good mentor to be able to tell me how to be able to do financial literacy, learn how to be a good borrower, learn how to capital raise, learn all that. I wouldn't be where I'm at today. And so those are just the things that you want to think about. Don't always They, oh my God, it's too expensive. Think about what can this do to change my life and investing in myself, but do something about it. Take action. 100%.

And I've had my coach tell me like what you pay, you should get a 10x return on that, right? Like you are investing in yourself and your business. It's not just, it's not just self-development. There's a monetary value and I, I just, yeah, it's so important. But yeah, the right fit, take the action. For sure.

Yeah, absolutely.

Sorry, what were you going to say? Sorry, I cut you off.

Oh yeah, and it is one of those things is taking the action. And if everybody that's analytical and, and then you have, remember this is part of your business as well. You can take it as a tax write-off. You can put that towards your business. It's growing your business. You just want to make sure that you, you're aligned and partnered with the right person. And at the end of the day, like we talked about earlier, Peace Mobery is not teaching anything different. He just has a spin on what he's teaching. Grant Cardone does not teach anything different. He just has— there's certain people that like him, there's some people that don't. Tony Robbins, people stand in line and that's one of their bucket lists to go see a Tony Robbins. These are all inspirational individuals that can help you move your business. And obviously others that, as ourselves, to help. The biggest thing I've learned is that, and I didn't know this until I really got into the building my career and entrepreneurship, is you— what the biggest thing is, you get taught and then you do and then you teach. And that is the way that you are able to serve and make a movement and an impact.

Mm-hmm.

Teaching, you have to have known, you have to be at a certain experience level on whatever you're teaching. I've had people, some coaches that I've gone to and we've had interviews and they said, no, Michelle, you know way too much at the level, which is great. I appreciate that cuz they could have just said, sign up for my membership. My mentorship and I end up going and speaking to their community. I end up being in the, their inner circle and teaching. That's how I was on one of the other podcasts. And it's just collaboration and seeing a different point of view and seeing certain things. So absolutely we can, YouTube University is only gonna give you so much.

I'm curious how you feel. If you would've asked me a couple years ago, this is never a position I would've thought I'd be in, but it was a calling and like, I need to share what I know and I want to empower people to have assets and build that legacy. Like it wasn't something that like, and it's not easy. I think people think coaches are just, you know, it's work, it's another job and we curating our knowledge in a way that's digestible and recordings and, but I think the right coach is doing it for a reason cuz they wanna share that knowledge and they're really passionate about it. There's also that misconception that coaches are just out there just I think it is something we want, we have a passion, we should have a passion for it. At least I do. I know you do too.

Yeah. So my thing is that, no, I never thought I was gonna be in this seat. I think that many years ago I was like, what? I had a business partner at, for a business that we had during COVID and she was doing coaching and I'm like, I could never do that. I don't wanna, like, that's too crazy. But honestly, I, and I'm living through it now. I love seeing people win.

Mm-hmm.

I love it. I am so, I just see the shift that has happened and the fact that I was able to be a little part of that in just nudging and just holding someone accountable and what coaches have done for me. That's where I truly get the satisfaction. And knowing that yesterday, I honestly, when we got on our due diligence call with, when she locked up the deal on Saturday, she got it approved on Saturday, Sunday, yesterday we did under it. I felt like I was like winning. I was like, oh my God, I feel like I just got a property under contract. So it's just so great because it's just one of those things of just being able to, and many times before, I know this has been a gift for me, uh, because I've always poured into individuals and I've always been able to help. But again, I say this and I would do some of my entrepreneur friends and so forth, and I'm like, okay, let's go ahead and do, let me help you with XYZ because I've studied this. And they don't take it serious. Oh, I missed my, I missed the call or let's schedule, reschedule this. But best believe, and I've done this with others, I say, okay, if we're gonna be accountability partners, whoever, if we're not gonna follow what we said is our plan, someone owes you, as one of us owe each other $2,500. Mm-hmm. Oh, do you think? And people showed up and it's just the way we prioritize. We're human. It's how we prioritize something. And so I realized that. I have paid well over 6 figures to get my education and I want to pour into people, but I cannot pour into the wrong people. And I say this is because there are people out there that say they want to do something and they won't. And unfortunately, pocketbook and putting an investment into something will be able to divide the room. It does. And then change. So yeah, so excited on my journey. It's all new. It's, it's crazy. But I love now just hearing the stories and seeing the wins and being consistent, as consistent as you've been. I see your lives and just pouring in, and I think you just come to that point to know pouring into individuals is just, it's amazing. Because you just see them, you know, able to get to the finish line. I think that's what I enjoy most about it.

It really is. It's a great experience. And yeah, I really genuinely care, otherwise I wouldn't do this because it's not easy. Um, yeah, it's some— I heard this quote, what you pay for, you pay attention to, and it's really true. That's— yeah. Oh my gosh, we're like way over. I don't know if you have a few more minutes. I have a couple rapid questions. This has been so much fun. Like, I could like Yeah.

Okay.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate your passion and you're just like straight talk and just because a lot of this, we just, we toss it around and we don't often understand how to do it. And I know you have a course, so if I think anyone's looking about PML, I, you, it's not hard, but there's a lot that goes into it and making sure everyone is secured properly and the numbers make sense because I think it's a, you have to be very ethical. And I think people heard of so many deals going south because they weren't secured properly. The numbers didn't pencil. And that just kills me really, because I'm like, that's the beauty of P&L with real estate. It's a real asset, or it should be a very secure loan, but there's a lot of story.

I've learned through this journey. So I teach people now how to capital raise, and now I do have a mini course for private money lenders. It is going to teach you how to be able to know what security documents you need to protect yourself. Guys, at the end of the day, it is your hard-earned money and you have to trust your borrower and you have to do your due diligence on yourself as well on the deal. So I, I tell my private money lenders, build a relationship, but at the end of the day, like, you have to be okay with knowing that potentially you can part with that money. I know it's a scary thing, but that is where we're at. Potentially we can lose our properties, right? And we don't want that. So we, I have started, I did, there is a mini accelerator course to tell you at least the stepping stones of what you need for securities of yourself. It talks about the type of lien positions. I know people are very scared to be in second lien. It does talk about that you still have the rights of being able to get your money back if something happens. So I did create that because I did realize there's a lot of people say, I do want to lend, I do want to make generational wealth, I just got burned, or I just don't know. I had a call last week with someone saying, there's so much education out teaching people how to capital raise, There's not education about how to make your money work for you and be protected. So, yes, that by the time this airs, you, you can go to mystorymichelle.com. You'll be able to, what I'll do is I will give you a discount code if you want to be able to give that.

Awesome.

Your audience so that they could go. And again, this is just a giving you just the framework of knowing it's, uh, how to protect yourself. And if there's any time that you want to say, you know what, I feel like I'm comfortable to lend, you can reach out to me as well because I am teaching borrowers how to be ethical borrowers. And so we are— I want to make sure if you're partnered with someone and you are lending money out, that you are with someone that knows the safety courses, that knows what they need to do. So yes, so I'll get you that information so that you can provide to your audience. And again, it's just to be able to educate.

I think it goes both ways and we really have to be ethical and make sure everyone's protected and there are risks, right? But there's ways to do it where there's just, because there's a lot of things that go down. Yeah. I guess one last question, we'll wrap up. Top, we covered this before. We went through, but I always like to ask the top business or life advice to live life on your own terms.

Yeah. So the top business, are you talking about the top thing that I, that you do that you would maybe tell someone being an entrepreneur, right?

It's definitely a journey. It's not easy. I think you have to have a lot of faith. What would, and you're clearly living life on your own terms, right? What would you tell someone to do that?

So it was something that Mel Robbins recently said on one of her podcasts, and she said to be able— we are so sometimes so going so fast that we forget who we become. And the simple to do is go back 365 days and go through your photos and go through your camera and learn to appreciate the little things in life that you've done and the experiences. I am so guilty of going on the fast track and keep going, okay, great, we got this deal down. Okay, great. Let's move on. Let's move on. Let's keep going. Let's keep going. There are times that I go back and just sit still in my properties and said, damn, I've done this right. And there's, I go back into, when I go back into the pictures and so forth, you may have a year that, cuz this is a hard journey. You may have a year that you don't have a lot of pictures. Well, then you want to start to create those memories. That's right. At the end of the day, guys, no matter if you're a real estate investor, if you want to be a private money lender, if you are a business owner, or if you are a W-2, we all want to be on earth to be able to have financial freedom, be able to live to our— the best life that we can live, or whatever that looks like. And success or whatever that looks like. So be intentional in everything you do and know that you also wanna provide value. And if you think you don't have value, you have value. Just realize and know what that is. And you may not think that you are on the bigger stages, but that one little thing of serving people and helping people tell your story and you tell your story can change someone else's life. And that's what I live by.

I really love that. It's a great way to end. Almost makes you think of doing like a photo album of just things, because we're always looking. The bar is always moving, right? Especially as entrepreneurs, there's a lot of shiny things that capture us. This has been so much fun. I will put everything in the show notes. I so appreciate that offer, and I think anyone that's really seriously looking for capital or wants to be a PML, educate yourself because just because you're in the same network does not mean that you're protected by some mythical, like, I don't know. I've just, I hear a lot of stories. It's, um, yeah, this has been so much fun. I hope we get to meet up in person. Will you be at the MTR Summit?

Are you gonna— we're looking to go. We haven't bought tickets just yet. So yes, I know you were there last year as well. I, we were there as well. So we are looking. We're looking to go. We're just like, because I might go, wanna go buy properties.

And my nose, I was like, it's so fun to be around other operators and just talk shit. I was just, it's like that tribe. I'm like, this is my tribe. I had that feeling. So I love that.

Yeah. I said, more than likely we'll make it happen because I love San Diego first off. And then the second thing is we're truly looking for a San Antonio operator. That really can partner with us and grow and help us. So I think if we're in the room, we can be able to find that.

Yeah. Yeah, totally. Amazing. If I don't see you there, I'm sure I'll see you at some other event. Thank you so much for coming on. I'll tag you everywhere. I'll put the website. And if anyone's interested, reach out. Like, I, I know your stuff and you'd be in good hands because this is really important stuff. Like, we make it sound easy, but it's because it's so well, and you could get someone to that next level because capital is, I think, what holds us back a lot. Yeah, absolutely.

Every investor needs money, right?

Awesome. All right, I want to sign off. Thanks, guys.