Billionaire Makeup Artist Spills All Her Secrets… Find the Right Brow Shape for Your Face and More

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Because in Romania, there was no way to do anything as a woman.

And when you moved to the US from Romania, were you always in LA?

I came here straight. America is the only country where I could achieve something. I really became intrigued why nobody in Hollywood paid attention to eyebrows. My art teacher always talking about the importance of eyebrows. It's because it's science. Start revisiting the theory of Leonardo da Vinci using the golden ratio theory on everyone.

When did this all take off?

I was the best-kept secret in Hollywood. I decide to open a salon. Oprah Winfrey in 1998. That was my Oscar moment. Every celebrity that you could think. Hi everyone, I'm Anastasia Soare, the creator of Anastasia Beverly Hills, and welcome to Burn Up.

You believe that, you know, the eyebrows are the most defining part of the face. You've built a billion-dollar empire off of it. Why would you say that?

Well, because eyebrow is one of the most important feature of our face, you know, brings balance and proportion and expresses an emotion, changes your emotion. A well-shaped eyebrows could give you that very sophisticated look. A wrong shape eyebrow could make you sad looking, angry looking. So it's very, very important to have the right shape for your face.

And of course, what is your brow routine?

I mean, I'm a victim of the '80s over-tweezing eyebrows. That's why actually I got into eyebrows because my esthetician in Romania tweezed so much my eyebrows. I had that '80s looks, pencil-thin and round eyebrows. So when I came here, I got a disposable camera and I realized that I looked kind of surprised in every picture. I realized that was my eyebrow because I remember my art teacher always talking about the importance of eyebrows when you draw a portrait. So I thought the reason why I look surprised is my eyebrows. I went to the library and I start revisiting the theory of Leonardo da Vinci that he used in all his work. So I kind of slowly developed this technique on how to shape eyebrow using the golden ratio theory, on everyone. Of course, I fix my own and the clients start asking.

Well, yes, tell us about the golden ratio theory. What is it and how does it work?

So golden ratio, it's everywhere. It's a mathematical formula that was invented by Fibonacci, discovered, not invented, was discovered by Fibonacci. And a lot of artists used in their work, but you see it in architecture, you see it everywhere, in nature, everywhere. Ratio, the 1.618, that you could apply to the body, to the face, of course, to create the perfect balance and proportion. So I had to simplify the— this using the golden ratio for eyebrows. And for anyone to use it is that you take a pencil and above middle of inside of the nostril your eyebrow should begin right there. So this, you— I apply this theory on everyone. It doesn't matter the shape of the face and the eyebrow they have, but their eyebrow always should begin above middle of inside of the nostril, corner of the nose, corner of the eyes. That should be the end. And tip of the nose, middle of the iris, that should be the highest part. So you connect the 3 marks, keeping in mind that the inner part should be lower, and you create the perfect shape following your natural eyebrow shape.

I want to go backwards because now you've built this incredible empire. I mean, everyone's seen your products, you know, across the shelves, on, on the internet, in Sephora. But I want to go back to you starting work as a 12-year-old in Romania. How did that happen and what did it teach you?

Well, I started working because my father passed away and my mother had to run the business and was quite difficult in Romania. In the communist regime, you couldn't own your own business. And my mother thought that I have to help her. And of course, I said, "Mom, I'm 12. I don't know anything about business." And her answer was, "Oh, you are smart. I will teach you everything." So of course, after school, I will do my homework and I will do little things. But being in her atelier, I was able to see her, how she interacted with her clients, how passionate she was about her work. I start learning discipline, the work ethic that my mother had, and the love that she had for what she did. And later on, I kind of, when I start my own business, it was so easy for me and natural in a way because I did that with my mother.

And then how did that influence your relationship with your daughter?

I mean, I saw myself in my daughter because I remember I used to tell my mom, you work so long hours. I can't believe the clients are so difficult. Why you do this? And she used to answer me, I love to see my clients beautiful and happy and so confident when they wear my clothes. She was in a clothing business. And my daughter asked, I start asking me the same question 'cause I was working nonstop. And I realized that, You become your mother, you know? And I answer her like, I love to see the clients being so happy and confident and feeling beautiful. I think it's something that you are able to offer and you get that energy back in return.

And I want to talk about leaving, you know, the communist regime in Romania with your daughter. What was that story and what was that experience like?

Oh, it was brutal. It was very difficult. But obviously I wanted to leave because it was late '80s was very, very difficult. The situation was terrible. Food was scarce. We didn't have electricity. It was very bad. So as much as I was scared and afraid to come in a place where I didn't know anyone, I didn't have money, I knew that I wanted to offer my daughter and myself much more than we had in a communist regime. So it was quite scary, I have to say.

Did you have to apply for a visa?

How did that— Oh yeah, no, my husband was ship captain. He defected in Italy. He asked for political asylum. He came because I asked him only Los Angeles, only Hollywood. He came in Los Angeles and I came like 2 years later. And it was a long process. I had to go to the embassy. I got my my visa and my green card very quickly, but the Romanian authority would not give me the passport to come here. So it was interrogation at police stations. They wanted me to say, no, I want to divorce, I want to stay in Romania. And it was frightening, but it was probably nothing that could stop me.

And how did going to Hollywood change your life?

Wow. Well, the first 6 months when I came, obviously, was a shock. I didn't speak the language. It was very difficult, I have to say, crying every day. But I realized that there's no way for me to go back, number one, and number two, I really sacrificed so much to leave the country and to come here. I left my family. I had a very big family, and I wanted to do something. I felt like America is the only country where I could achieve something. I will find out what I'm capable of because in Romania, there was no way you will do anything as a woman.

And how did that lead to eyebrows?

So I start working in a salon and as an aesthetician doing facial and body waxing. I never thought that that's the job that I will ever end up in beauty. And I start fixing my eyebrows and I really became intrigued why nobody in Hollywood paid attention to eyebrows when eyebrows were so important. So I went to the owner and she, I mean, eyebrow wasn't a service that somebody could, you know, make money or financially didn't make sense for them. To have that service offered.

They didn't have threading or waxing or anything?

This, I'm talking about 1990.

Wow.

So now you see so many places doing eyebrows, but at that time it didn't. And I really believed that science, 'cause it's science, it's like in art classes that I had an incredible art teacher and I realized that makeup and eyebrows and everything, the study that we made for art classes with the face and how you create that perfect balance, creating eyes, nose by using the pencil is kind of the same concept of using makeup. You use dark color to minimize certain feature of the face and light color to emphasize certain feature of the face. So using makeup, you create an illusion of perfect balance and proportion of the face. So to me, I wanted to to ask myself and find answers. And I think I thought that everything that I learned in our classes, I could apply in creating eyebrows and creating a makeup line and kind of explaining why we use makeup and why we have to shape the eyebrows a certain way.

So you go to the owner, you tell her, hey, we should do something with eyebrows. She says it doesn't make any economic sense.

Correct.

When do you quit and end up starting your own salon?

So a year and a half after I worked there, I saved $5,000, and I went home one Sunday, I opened LA Times, and I told my husband, I'm gonna rent a room. I have to open my own business. And he looked at me like, are you crazy? And he wasn't working because as a ship captain, he thought he will get with an international license, he will get a job, but we didn't know that he needed to be an American citizen. So we had the green card, but after 5 years you get the citizenship. So he couldn't get a job and I was the only one working. It was kind of frightening.

How old is your daughter at this point?

Oh, she was a baby.

So you have a baby at home. You quit your job with $5,000 and you're like, I'm going to do this.

I'm going to do this.

You bet big on brows.

And I said, you know what, if I will, I will give myself 6 months. If I will not be able to do it, then I could get another job as an aesthetician. What do I have to lose? I have to do this because I will regret all my life. And that's the reason why I came here to really do something significant. All the sacrifices that I made were to do something grand, something big.

And when did this all take off? When did this become an extremely famous brand? Like, what was your big break?

So I started, rented that small little room in '92. By '97, '96, I was the best-kept secret in Hollywood doing eyebrows and everything else. And I used to create like a pomade mixing aloe vera with Vaseline and eyeshadow to fill in eyebrows to create that perfect look. And the client will come back and they will ask for the products because after they will take a shower, the eyebrow will kind of disappear again. So I decide to open a salon and create a makeup line. In '97, I did that. I opened the salon. In '98, '99, I created the makeup line. And in 2000, Nordstrom's came to ask me if I want to sell the products in Nordstrom's, and I convinced them to open brow studios there. So by By 2000, I had the brand, the makeup line. Every celebrity that you could think was in the salon. And it was such a— Who, like who? Like from Oprah to, in '98, I was on Oprah's show. So that was, I mean, Oprah Winfrey in 1998 was the biggest.

And how did you feel? I mean, that's huge.

Oh my God, that was my Oscar moment. I always say that. That was my Oscar moment. I mean, to be there 12 minutes do her eyebrows and talk about eyebrows. It's incredible. And constantly she will support me and talk about me. Even if I was on her show, she will talk about her eyebrows. So I got the support and I was validated by so many celebrities that they were my clients in magazines, TV, and all platforms that I could be promoted. And of course, in the early 2000s, magazines were like the biggest thing and TV sometimes. And it became like the best thing.

I want to go back to Oprah because she's been such a thorough line in your story.

Oh, yeah.

Can you talk about how you first learned to speak English?

Yes, that's a very good question. So in Romania, we had some VCR and 4 bootleg VCR tapes. We had Beverly Hills Cops, Pretty Woman. That's why I wanted only Beverly Hills to— I told my husband he needs to come to LA because I wanted to experience that Rodeo Drive walk. And we had The Color Purple. So the movie that she was, but she looked totally different. I think I watched that that movie probably 100 times. And we didn't understand one word, but I think the emotion, the movie was so emotional that we watched many times. There were only 4 tapes. And I came to LA, we had only one TV, we didn't have money to buy more. So my husband that spoke perfect English, he would watch the news, the Lakers game and everything. Most of the time he was the one watching. For some reason, flipping the channel, I stop at Oprah Winfrey and I watch her show. And I made a deal with him. I said, you could watch any time, but this slot, the time that she's on her show, this woman, I want to watch her show. So I keep watching and kind of, it was something that I was so attracted 'cause at that time, if you guys remember in 1990, there were a lot of daytime TV shows. I mean, I was attracted by her voice. And when I start writing my book, Raising Eyebrows, I realize why, because her voice was so familiar to me because I was watching the movie, The Color Purple, so many times with my family, my friends. And her voice made me feel like I'm home. You know? So I start, learning English and my husband used to make jokes like, I don't understand why you want to watch this show and this woman. You don't understand anything. And teasing him. I want to learn how she asks questions because when I'm gonna be invited on her show, I need to know how to answer.

You manifested it.

I mean, can you believe that? I mean, of course, I never even in my wildest dream I thought, but yeah. I was on, in 1998, I was on her show.

How did they get in touch with you?

She was on her production company. I mean, all the producers, she had many producers. And again, she was on a boat and with 4 other women and they start talking about following your passion, you become famous. And the 3 women in that circle, they were my clients. And they start talking about me. And she's like, I have to, I heard of her, but she never liked to get her eyebrows done. And she invited me to do her eyebrow live. Can you believe that?

Oh my gosh, were you stressed?

I mean, I was a little bit at the beginning because I mean, she was, everything she said was like, she was, you know, God.

Yeah.

And I couldn't believe that she—

Could you rehearse or did you have to just do it live?

No, no, live. What rehearse?

Were your hands like shaking?

No, I mean, I did that.

Since you look like you're pretty—

I am very sturdy. So it was very interesting because I did that like every 5 minutes. I will do an eyebrows in the salon, like was one after the other one. And when I went there, my daughter's like, Mom, you know, I mean, she's not so comfortable getting her eyebrows done. What will happen if she will say, no, we don't, I mean, I don't like it or stop or And I went there and I was kind of nervous, but I got there. Once I put my stick in my hand and my tweezers, it was like so natural to me. Like, I'm in control. Don't worry. Just relax. I'm so quick. I'm the best in what I do. That was my line. And I really believed I was the best in what I was doing. And she calmed down. I started doing her eyebrows. I showed her one eyebrow and she was amazing. After that, she couldn't stop talking. She was forever, 98. Could you believe that? She keeps supporting me. I launched the book in October last year and she, on stage, she interviewed me. She is an incredible woman and supported me along the way.

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Okay, I wanna go back to Nordstrom coming. Do they show up in person or do they call you? How does that happen? You know, Nordstrom comes knocking.

I had a brow kit. I will never forget. Uh, they were not that excited. You know, this was 2002, new eyebrow wasn't something that somebody thought that is the best thing ever. I explained that just having the eyebrow products there is not enough because the clients didn't know how to use a powder or what to— So I had a technique that I needed education. So I suggested we should have brow studios there that estheticians would be trained by me and they could teach the client and sell the products. So they didn't want that because they said, we are a retail company, we are not a service company, which I understood that. So I took them, I saw in the— there were 14 people at the table and was one lady, very pretty but very light eyebrows, like almost you couldn't see her eyebrows. So I asked permission if I could show them a transformation. So I took the stencil, I filled in with little powder and show them the before and after, one eyebrow done, one not. And it was is like such a big deal and impressive that they agreed to open the Brow Studios.

It sounds like you're a master of the live demo.

And I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about the products you've made, the eyebrows, all of it. And kind of, I want— our audience wants beauty tips. I mean, you are the mastermind of all of this. And so what is the best advice that you do have for people who they're starting out, they don't know what to do with their eyebrows? Like, what kind of advice do you give to them?

I think we all are visual. So it's a lot— I could tell you right now what to do, but when you see a video, it's a lot easier for you to know that, oh, this is easy. I could do it, or at least I could practice. Another advice I could give, if you try a new product, don't use it right before you have to go out or to a party because you need to understand how much pressure you put, how much payoff the product has. So take 15 minutes in your day off or when you're free time and practice this product and you will see how to use it, how much pressure you have to put. And beauty, I mean skincare, of course you have to, I mean no sodas if you want to have beautiful skin, drink a lot of water, eat healthy and use a good skincare regime and sunblock as well. And exercise, I mean, it's crucial.

Easy stuff, no.

Easy stuff, yes.

And I have to ask, we've gone through so many crazy brow trends throughout the years.

Yes.

What are your thoughts on the wavy brows where people used to have straight and then they—

But that, remember, those were right after COVID when people were so bored and they needed to create content. I mean, will you ever go with the wavy eyebrows? No, no.

If you said it, I might have to.

No, no, that was, I think, People wanted to express their artistic ability and talents, and this is why they did that. But that was only for Instagram.

What about the colored eyebrows, where people would be like blue or purple?

I mean, you have to have that edge. Like, my daughter loves bleached eyebrows, but my daughter wants that edgy look. So if you like edgy look, why not? You could reverse always. As long as you don't over-tweeze eyebrows, colors, products, you could do whatever you want because you could remove it.

And then for your guys' products, how did you decide to first start to shift away from just eyebrows and start to add in additional items?

So my whole theory was based on golden ratio with eyebrows. But again, like in art school, you start doing eyebrows and then you create contouring. Because this is how you start shading to create a face, yes? You use the pencil and the pressure on the pencil, you use a darker color, more pressure to create depth and lighter color to create volume, yes? So I was explaining this to my daughter and my team and I said like contouring after eyebrow contouring is the most important thing when you do makeup. Like in art. And she created, my daughter in 2014 created this kit with 3 contour colors and 3 highlighter colors. And we put it on our, we sold it on Instagram and it sold out in like an hour. Then Sephora wanted to sell where they put it in, in on their website and again sold out immediately. And then the entire concept, 'cause I always ask my daughter and my entire team, well, do you know why we use makeup? And again, like, well, I saw my mother or this makeup artist did. Well, but I wanted everyone to understand what we use makeup. We use makeup to create, and everybody's different. You do not use them. I cannot use the makeup the way you use your makeup because our bone structure is different. So we need to use makeup to create the perfect balance and proportion without a face. So you use an illusion of perfect. So if I want to contour my face, I use little darker colors here and lighter here, and that will create a better contour of my face. So that's why we created eyeshadow. That's why we created contour kits and then blush and everything else. So it was a natural transition that education for us was very important, and we created products that will, will create the ability of every client to create the perfect balance and proportion with their face. I don't know if you guys remember, but we had We had a contour kit and a cream contour kit, a cream contour kit that we created for the Drag Race, RuPaul's Drag Race. And at the beginning, people used so much contouring that was, and so much highlighter, that was so funny to look and see. But then lately, then they realized they need to blend better and less is more. You know, everybody learned, but it was a stage, you know, that was used in, in the Instagram era.

I remember with my little braces, like being in my bathroom with a YouTube tutorial playing on my laptop, and then I would stand with the contour stick and I, you know, I wouldn't use too much 'cause I didn't wanna waste it.

Yeah.

And I save up to get another one. And I would come down to dinner, my mom was like, Oh goodness. Like painted, literally painted so badly, but I was practicing and learning.

Absolutely. Was the best way to learn what you end up to become a master. And remember, when I came in Hollywood in the early '90s, people used to get makeup if they went to an event, a special occasion, or an award season or award Oscar or Golden Globe, and they used to go to department stores, very few makeup artists, freelancer. Now, not only there are millions of freelancers, you could go to department stores and you could get your makeup, but now everybody learn how to do their own makeup. I think it's so empowering to learn how to do your own makeup.

Makeup.

It's beautiful. I'm so excited for everyone because you feel like right now I could bring the best version of myself even when I go grocery shopping. Still, you need to do a little bit.

I completely agree. I think it's so funny because I remember when I was young and I wanted to learn how to do my makeup and my mom was like, you're beautiful the way you are.

Exactly.

And I was like, yeah, but I also want to do my makeup.

Yes, of course.

And I am curious also, I completely agree with Phoebe. I remember watching YouTube tutorials. I saw all the people who were using your products. I learned how to do my makeup from them, but also I definitely made a ton of mistakes. So I'm curious, what are the biggest beauty mistakes you still see?

I think people start learning so much how to perfect the blend because blending is the most important thing. I mean, I remember the blocky eyebrows with the deep brow, like that was I used to tell my daughter, like, Claudia, this is too much. Like, Mom, this is what they like. Don't worry, they will figure out. And then, yes, they did. Give the people what they want.

Yeah.

But I mean, right now, I think people are doing an amazing job because everybody practiced. So remember, we started in 2012. Let's say we'd make up to 14. We have a lot of time, no? Now it's 26. It's a lot of time that it allowed everyone to learn how to do their makeup beautifully.

What were trends that you saw come and go and what did you think about them?

Oh my God. So the blocky eyebrows, the heavy, heavy contouring, the highlighter. Sometimes the highlighter was all the way to the nose and here, or a lot, not enough blending. I think that was another mistake, but I think everybody learned. Everybody learned how to do it.

Thoughts on laminated brows?

Oh yes, then the laminated brows, like the brows was like, come on. Yeah, I need to see you in a meeting when you saw those photos. Oh yes, it's true.

If you had to pick one product that's a must-have, what would it be?

It's like picking your favorite child. I think Brow Wiz will be my favorite. Actually, it's easy to use.

And what's the simplest, best routine someone can have for their makeup if they only have 5 minutes?

For eyebrows, you mean, or everything?

Just everything.

Well, I think the most important are eyebrows and lips, in my opinion. Don't you think?

So what do you do with your eyebrows and lips?

Well, you fill in with the Brow Wiz very quickly, and then I outline my lips. Lips and use lip velvet and lip gloss, and I'm ready to go.

What about mascara?

Yeah, that's too, but you said only 5 minutes and you can't make it.

Okay, that makes sense.

Yeah, very quick mascara. I think it's important. You know, you close your eyes 10,000 times a day and your mouth. So when somebody looks at you, looks around the eyes and around the mouth. You know that?

I did not know that.

Yeah, so if you have this area, arrange it like in a good spot and the lips, I think you're good.

And what did you do when your clients would come to you and they had done something crazy with their makeup or their brows? Like, do you ever tell people that doesn't look good?

No, I will tell them, look, if this is what you like, but can I show you what I think will look better? And it's up to you. You'll decide. Because I think I think at the end of the day, you let the client figure out. She will understand. The moment she will see, she will understand. I mean, I used to have so many clients. Like, for instance, I used to have dancers from Las Vegas in the early 2000s that all they wanted Pamela Anderson eyebrows. Everyone. I mean, Pamela was their idol. And I refused to do thin eyebrows because once you tweeze eyebrows, You could bleach, you could color darker, you could do whatever. But once you tweeze or wax, then eyebrows, they don't grow back. So I refuse to do that. And I used to say, well, let me explain. Let me draw a better eyebrow, a little thicker, and you will see grow your eyebrow right now because if you keep doing this, they will not grow back. So slowly, I will not do immediately a thick, but at least one row of eyebrows. And this is how They will, and I mean, years later they will come like, do you remember when I had pencil-thin eyebrows and you made me grow? Thank God they grew back.

And I'm curious for you, at first were you like, okay, this salon is really taking off, I'm gonna expand a giant chain of salons, or when did you realize like, wow, okay, it's really the product line here that is gonna scale massively?

The reason why it, the salon was more difficult is because the training— I wanted the quality of the service to be excellent. So I used to work 5 days in the salon, and the 2 days that I was off, I used to travel around the country to, to train the estheticians in Nordstrom's. So I literally worked 7 days a week, like nonstop, and it wasn't easy to keep the quality Perfect.

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I am really fascinated also, was there a moment when you realized, I'm famous, people know me for being like the best eyebrow person in Hollywood? Like, how did you feel during this moment?

From the beginning, I never had in mind like, oh, I want to be famous. I wanted to master my craft. I wanted to be the best in what I did. And of course, when you get the validation of every celebrity, every client that came, I have clients that are my clients and they are still in the salon for 35 years. Do you guys understand that? That's a power that, and a confidence that the client gives you. You know, if I am constantly every 3 weeks coming and you shape my eyebrows, I'm doing something good. So my confidence grew just seeing all these people coming over and over every month. And it's very satisfying. And being famous, to me, that's not and was never such a big goal in my life to be famous. I wanted to be recognized for doing the best job, being the best in what I did, creating the best product, To me, empowering women, giving back to the community that really supported me because my clients, my celebrity clients, my everyday clients, they helped me to build this, to build this trust. And I wanted to give back.

I mean, it's amazing what you've built. And something that also has always stood out to me about your brand is you guys have an incredible social media presence. I mean, I think it's over 18 million followers on Instagram. You're so savvy digitally. When did that become part of the story?

So my daughter in 2012 used to come with me. I used to drag her everywhere around the country to train the estheticians. And obviously, what kid at 18 wants to work 7 days a week, you know? And she, I will always remember, she used to say, "Mom, I'm 18. I work like I'm 50 years old. I don't have a life. I work nonstop." It's like, well, We have to do it. We have no choice. And she came to me one day and was like, Mom, maybe we don't need to travel that much. There's this app we could post products and pictures, and maybe we could talk and teach the client how to use the products, and we don't need to travel that much. It's called Instagram. Like, okay. So I was surrounded, a lot of my employees were young people, because I always thought that It's so, so good. So I learned from them so much because I didn't even know how to use a computer when I came here. And we start, I said, yeah, absolutely, let's see it. So we start posting the, I remember we posted Browiz and kind of talk about how you could use it because the beginning they didn't have videos. If I don't know, you guys, you are too young, you don't remember, but they didn't have videos. And of course, we read every single comment. And was one comment that said, oh, I wish I will have this, I could buy this. And I said, send me your address and I will ship you one. And she answered, oh, you can't because I'm from a small village in India. When I heard that, I thought, whoa, to reach somebody in India, it's incredible for us. This is a miracle. So let's Let's really work on this. So we start, and then once they start having videos on Instagram, was a lot easier to show tutorial. And that was, we were the first brand, beauty brand, to have a presence on Instagram. And we created that influencer community because we start shipping products to the ones that we thought they are skilled. And at the beginning, the camera on iPhone wasn't that good. But I went in China and I discovered the ring light. So I bought a few ring lights and I sent them to some of the influencers, some of the makeup artists that they were better. And we kind of taught them how to take pictures. Then my daughter discovered Sony 6 camera that had a Wi-Fi and we sent them some of the camera to take better quality pictures. And you know, this is how it became a beautiful, community of people that love makeup. This is how the influencer community started.

And I love this story of your mom having you work with her and then you having your daughter work with you. Oh, gosh. Can you talk me through the story of like when you took her under your wing and started to work together? Like, what did that look like? And now today, as she's, you know, grown up and is the president of the company, like, what does your guys' working relationship look like? Do you have to have boundaries with your personal relationship as well? And what does it look like when you guys disagree?

Oh, we fight all the time, but we fight without even, I don't know, this is never like, oh my God, I'm gonna fight, I'm gonna with her and we'll not talk for 3 months. No, after 5 minutes, it's all normal. This is how Eastern European are. But I mean, it started from the beginning. Of course, she didn't wanted to work. I remember she used to say, I want to have fun, I want to go with my friends. And I'm like, yeah, but you need the gas money, You don't need money to buy whatever. So you want, you have to work. So I give her no choice. You know why? Because I work so long hours, I was never around her to know what she's doing. So I thought being in the salon, I could keep an eye on her and that will be helpful. And she will watch me and learn. Can see how hard I work. Because we mom usually, we feel so guilty because we work long hours and we don't go to kids' activity or, and we feel very guilty. But I think if the kids will see us how hard we work, I think it's very impactful and they learn that and they will become you. And yeah, it was, I fire her when she started because she was late. She used to go out with her friends and she had to be at the salon at 8:30 in the morning. She wasn't. So after the third time, I fired her.

How old was she?

She was 18. And she went and she worked at insurance company. And after a month, she came to ask me if I could give her some money because she didn't have enough to pay her rent after taxes, after whatever.

Whatever.

And I said, no, I'm sorry, I can't do that for you because I came in this country, I didn't speak the language, I had the kid, and I figure out, you should figure out. She was extraordinary at her job, and I wanted her to kind of wanted to come back. I didn't want myself to ask her to come back. So—

Was there a little bit of pride in there too?

Of course, I wanted to teach her a lesson. And she stayed there for like an hour, like, "Mom, he's gonna kick me out. I need to—" Like, "No, look, I could give you one more chance. You could come back because you are very good in whatever you did, but we have to have rules. I'm not your mother when you walk in, and I'm gonna be tougher on you than everybody else because I will set an example." And this is how everything started. And after that, I think it was a lot easier, you know, but—

What did she do and how did she rise up the ranks?

So she worked at the salon and after a few years she kind of got bored and she start working at the corporate office and every year she will be in different department, marketing department, sales, product development. I wanted her to understand every aspect of the business, and now she's doing so much. She does the product development. She does our director, everything on social media, everything on all the photo shoots for the gondola. She's basically involved in everything. Both of us, we have control over everything, but I keep her away from the finance part. I mean, I still sign the checks, believe it or not. And she deals with a lot. She has a lot on her plate, but she loves what she does. I mean, I remember the days when I used to call her in the morning, it was 9 o'clock, and I could hear that she just woke up. Like, why you are not at work? And now it's 10 o'clock at night and I call her like, you have to go home. You know? Wow. She works like 7 days a week. But finally, a few years ago, we start taking some vacations, but we always connect vacation with events because we have to, we have a global, we are in 35 countries. So if we go somewhere, we do events and we'll take 2, 3 days for ourselves and it's perfect. Because for us, if we take, let's say, 10 days vacation, so much work will pile up that it's not even worth it. So it works for us, but we have a great relationship. And again, if we have to have a different idea about something, we talk, and it's important sometimes to have two perspectives when you look at something. You know, she's younger, I'm more mature, and it's important to have, especially when you make products for every demographic.

And how did you learn the business side and the finances?

Well, finances, I think, you know, when you don't know the way, you make your own way. Because I didn't go here, I didn't have a education in United States. I had no idea how to do a balance sheet or— but you learn the hard way, the easy way, the old way. And you don't spend money that you don't have because nobody will ever give me a loan. Nobody believed in eyebrows that will be a business. But I think I work so hard, I made the money and I had to spend what I had. And I had a part-time job. I used to flip houses because I went to construction architecture school in Romania and I used to buy homes and remodel, live there for a year or two and then sell them and the profit I will put in the company. So, you know, working nonstop. But at least I did something that I loved. And—

I mean, you built a billion-dollar company. I know.

And I want to know what's next for you in the business over the next 5 years. Well, we—

I'm still working. I love what I do. I want to empower clients. We always— innovation is number one for us. We are still innovating, coming up with new products. Products for eyebrows and everything else and expanding, expanding the business. We are in 35 countries, but we want to be in more, more stores. And I want everyone to have our makeup and feel good about themselves, learning how to do their makeup. Like India is growing right now. In April, probably I'm going to go there. It's a market that it exploded. And as I don't know if you both know, but in India, culture, weddings are 5 days and everybody loves makeup and they love our products. So I'm really excited to go there.

Wait, and I need to know who has the best brows you've ever done?

I think all my clients have best eyebrows, like Jennifer Lopez, has beautiful eyebrows. Oprah Winfrey has beautiful eyebrows. Hailey Bieber has beautiful eyebrows. Kendall Jenner, Kim Kardashian. God, the list is Victoria Beckham.

Was there someone where you did their eyebrows and it was like your Super Bowl, you were so excited? Other than Oprah, of course.

I mean, I'm excited about everyone. I take so much joy because I see the transformation. So I'm excited. And of course, when I see the client excited, it's double excitement.

That makes sense. Yeah. I feel like the Kardashians have such nice eyebrows. They're Armenian, right? Yes. And I feel like it's so nice. It's so satisfying seeing them shaped. Yes.

Yes. And I do North's eyebrows too. She has the most gorgeous eyebrows.

Oh my God, that's so cute. That's amazing.

I'm a good mom because you know what's happening? Kids will, even if the mom will say, no, don't do it, you are young and you don't need to, they will do it themselves. Like, they will find a girlfriend that will tweeze off their eyebrows and then doesn't grow back.

Oh my God, I got my eyebrows threaded for the first time and I didn't tell my mom. You see? And my mom was like, what on earth did you do to your eyebrows? They're so thin. She was freaking out and I was I was like, well, you didn't want to go with the salon. Do you see?

This is exactly what happened. Yeah.

Good lesson, guys.

I always advise my clients, if your daughter is bringing up the questions like, mom, I want my— it bothers me, I get teased at school, take them to a salon and have them professionally done because they will do it doesn't matter what. And they will obviously over-tweak.

And I have to ask for my boyfriend, what should men do?

Oh, yes, that's a good question. Men should have the eyebrow groomed and not shaped. They need to clean a little bit here, not too much space here, because men's brow bone is very prominent, much more prominent. So if the space is too big, makes the feature a little too strong. And they need to be clean a little bit, not too shape like for a woman.

And for young entrepreneurs today, what would you say are lessons they need to learn or traits they need to have to survive in business?

I think they have to be resilient. I think they have to find one thing that they will become very good at, not 5 that will be mediocre. I think they have to have the emotional strength to, to because there will be really difficult moments when you become an entrepreneur and to take decision under pressure. That's another important part of being an entrepreneur. And they should not wait, oh, I need to be ready, I need to have a plan, or like, just start. And then you will figure out, maybe you start something and you are not okay. Maybe you realize this is not what I want. You could change, you pivot, and you do something else, but start something.

Thank you so much for coming on The Burnout Suite.

Oh, you're welcome.

We couldn't be more honored. You're welcome.

Your story is amazing. Thank you so much. And your advice is great. I'm gonna go actually tell my boyfriend that he needs to wax his eyebrows.

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