Celebrity Stylist: How To Stand Out, Style Celebrities — 10-min Morning Fashion Upgrade (Rachel Zoe)

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You're Rachel Zone. You have a huge brand. You've been, you had your show for years. But take me back to that breakout moment.

I got my first break from Tommy Hilfiger and that was a pivotal part of my life. And I'm like, why did you give me this chance? He said, because I knew you could do it. I was like, but I didn't know I could do it. He said, well, that's the point. You know young people that are like, oh, we have your book in my fashion class or I'm learning about you in a textbook and how to be a stylist. That is literally the greatest honor of my career. I knew that I never wanted to be a 9 to 5 at a desk. I made more in my first job than I made in a year. The biggest mistake of young people in general is that, hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and welcome to the Burnouts. When I started, when I, I mean, God, I mean, I was your age, well, it was literally right when I graduated college and I didn't know what I was going to do. And I was a sociology psychology major. And when I realized I had to go to more school to do that, I was like, no, because I really, it was like, I did really well in school, but I didn't enjoy being a student at all. I didn't like people telling me what to do. I didn't like telling me, telling me what I had to learn and how I had to learn it. That really always bothered me. And I always wanted to work and, and basically I got a job through front of a friend as a fashion assistant at a magazine at the time that was like 17, it was called YM and I worked there. And then I went freelance, literally at 25 years old. And I got my first break from Tommy Hilfiger, which I've, I've talked about a lot. And that was a pivotal part of my life and career because it really just jump started me into. It would have taken me so much longer, I think, because I didn't have the confidence in myself that he had in me. I made more in my first job than I made in a year doing what I was doing. And so at that point I said, okay, I want to do this not just for the money at all, but it was more because I got to have my hands in so many different things. And so that part of being a stylist was always very exciting to me. It was the people that I met every day. I knew that I never wanted to be a 9 to 5 at a desk. I knew that was not for me. Corporate America is just not for me. And I needed to be creative and I'm a people person.

How did you originally get in touch with Tommy? And then also what would you say, like if you were 25 again and

you were starting as I am. I am 25.

Sorry, sorry. Taking away your success. If you were starting again, what would you do?

The biggest mistake of young people in general is that they have this like, I want to be, you know, I want to achieve this by 25. If I don't do this by 28, if I don't have my first kid by, by 28 or 29, if I'm not married, I'm going to die. Like, I never did any of that. It was like my life. And even now in real time, there's no, like, there's no. That I don't do that. And I find that that really, that really can damage you internally because you're, you're setting these markers and times on your life that aren't, just aren't realistic. Right. Because you'll make bad decisions or if you don't hit those goals and those, those marks, you're going to be like, you're going to feel bad about it. And so I would say for Me, to go back to your first part, I would say Tommy. I met Tommy because his brother Andy was running a showroom at the time that was like Tommy Jeans. Like, it was this kind of younger line than his, and his was more like a. His was like the luxury line, right? And Andy, I would go pull from him all the time as an editor, and I would pull for the different, like, pop stars and actors that I was working with. And Andy and I got to be close. And so when I went freelance, I guess Andy told Tommy that I. That he thought I was a great stylist or that whatever he told him. And then. So Tommy one day called me into his office and I was scared. I was a.

What?

I was like, you know, I had, like, seen him and, you know, it was like Ralph Lauren. It was like, you don't talk to them, you know. And he called me into his office and he was like, so my brother tells me you're really talented. He's like, I can already tell you're really talented. Like, I just. Because I ask him now, because we're such good friends, and I'm like, why did you give me this chance? He's like, because I knew you could do it. I was like, but I didn't know I could do it. He said, well, that's the point, you know. And he said, I'm going to hire you. I want to hire you for a job. The first week is in Austin, Texas, with, like, it was like, 10 of the hottest young actors at the time shooting the Tommy jeans campaign. And then the following week, you're going to fly to la, we're going to take over the Griffith Observatory, and we're going to recreate the White House. And I'm such a control person. I was like, there is no margin for error in this situation. If I look this up, I'm like, I'm done. Like, I'm never going to work again. And I did the second part with, like, it was like, 20 of the biggest male and female supermodels, which, at that time, supermodels were the biggest celebrities ever. And, you know, now they are. But it was. It was like anyone you can name, honestly, and. And it ended up. I mean, I think I had 10 panic attacks on that shoot. But, like, it ended up being the most pivotal thing in my life because I ended up doing such big things after that, and it just literally blew from there. And, you know, I think I didn't have a day off for, like, 15 years, truthfully. Like, it was every weekend Like a Sunday was a Monday. It didn't matter. I just worked, you know, what's the

greatest length you've gone to for a client?

I mean, it's just. You do whatever. I've gone in the car and, like, laid them down and held the dress so that when they got onto the carpet, it was perfect.

So.

So lots of. Lots of things we've changed in some dark, crazy places to, like, you know, if their dress ripped and we had to do a quick change and jump in a car and, I mean, I could go. I could literally go on for a month.

And what do you think separates a good stylist from a great stylist?

That you're not driven by what you're hired for? I was never. I didn't care. Like, my agents would be like, oh, you're being hired for three looks. I would do, like, 13, because they would be like, oh, you know, I have to fly here. I have to go to this, like, premiere. But that's not part of the thing. I'd be like, okay, like, let's just. But you're going to be seen, so let's just have a great look. So whether it was a casual look of them, you know, going to the airport or walking to the hotel or whatever it was, I dressed them for every part of where they were visible. And I didn't care what I was being paid. Like, I was being paid well. I was paid really well for a lot of things, but there was a lot of things that I was not paid well for, but I didn't. I treated them the same. And I think the minute that you become a stylist, if you are looking at the clock or you're looking at dollars, I just don't think you're going to win at that. I just don't. If you play that role. Like, I'm only doing what I'm paid for. I. That. I've always had a hard time with that concept. I know that seems weird with, like, therapy, right? You're sitting in a room with someone who is seemingly digging into your life and this really personal moment, and then it's like, 45 minutes later, they're like, time's up. It's like, wait, don't you care? Or is this for money? Like, it's. You know what I mean? So I really. I struggle with that. I struggle with that. And I think I never looked at it that way.

And visually and creatively, what do you think really makes a great stylist?

Visually, creatively, is looking not at what your style is. Look at what's best for the client, because you can put your personal spin on it, right? Your touch. But you also have to look at your client and say, okay, if your client is the polar opposite style as you, you have to style for them, not for you. Like, if they don't wear gold jewelry, and I love gold jewelry, I'm not going to put them in gold jewelry. So you have to. You have to get in their mind. You have to take your expertise and add that, but they still have to be them, you know, So I think. I think that's what it is. And. And stylists that can really have a very diverse group of. Of clients and dress them as such, you know, dress them differently.

What do you do? I'm always curious about this. I was talking to a friend who's an interior designer. Like, if the client you have has really bad taste, and they're like, hey, I only want to wear, you know, like, mesh, neon, orange. Like, do you go with it? Or at a certain point, do you have to push back?

For me, what happened was a lot of people would start out going, I don't wear one shoulders. I don't wear jewelry. I don't. Whatever. And by, like, the third or fourth fitting, they would ask for the jewelry first and be like, let's build the outfit around jewelry. Or if it doesn't go that way and you're just so far apart, I would just. I would say I'm. I'm not the right stylist for you. There were major, major, major celebrities, like pop stars and really successful people that wanted to hire me in that day. And I would be like, I'm not the right stylist for you because I know what you want, and I'm not really great at that, you know? And I think for me, I was very clear on where I could add value and also where I might not be the best fit, you know, so. And also for me, it was a lot about personality. You know, if you tell a client

if they look bad, like, if I put something on, I'm like, hey, Rachel. Like, don't I look awesome in this? Do you have to tell people?

Like, no, I wouldn't say it that way. I would. I would. Jen Garner and I used to have this joke. She used to look at me and she, like, I love this one. It's so comfortable. I feel, like, good. And she would like me and go, I'm taking it off. And I'm like, no, it looks great. She's like, you Hate it. I'm removing it. I'm like, I don't hate it. You can absolutely wear that. And she's like, it's comfortable. I'm like, great. She goes, okay, just tell me what you want me to wear. So it just.

You have to.

It depends on the client, you know what I mean? Your comfort level and how you kind of communicate to each other. I wouldn't ever say if they loved it, that I hated it, but it would just be like, okay, let's tweak this. It's not my favorite. I think we can do better, you know, but it's. It's very hard when they really love something. And sometimes there was a few cases where I had to really just throw my hands in there. I couldn't really do anything. That was hard. That was. It was very hard. Very hard.

I can tell you studied psychology because you're so great at communicating. And I'm sure that's a huge part of the job. And that's kind of something I was curious about is because you're also dealing with really famous, high leverage relationships. How do you go about navigating those when you are talking about something as personal as style?

Um, I mean, when I was styling, it was. It was absolutely therapy sessions every single day. There was no client that I didn't have in a very close relationship that I didn't know everything about their life. You know, we really. We spent on a press tour. You spent such an exorbitant amount of time with someone. And as a stylist, it's like, it's not just hair and makeup where you're like jumping and jumping out, like styling. It's like were in hours and hours and hours of fittings and I mean, they're naked. It's like we're. You know what I mean? Like, it's real talk. Like, it's where it's. You bury your soul a lot of the time. And of course, some more than others. But, like, I had very, very close relationships with most of my clients. And. And there was a lot of psychology, you know, involved for sure. And I used to say that all the time. I used to say, like, because you were like, you're a psych major, you didn't go to like, FIT or Parsons. I'm like, no, I'm like, I didn't know I was getting in fashion. I didn't know that I could make a job out of something I loved so much because I theoretically started styling when I was like 8 years old. I just didn't know it was called styling and but I would argue that I definitely used psychology every, every minute of my career. Truthfully, because you're navigating relationships. All psychology is just understanding people's minds and navigating relationships and how people react and how they feel. You have to be able to read a room when you walk into it, right? And more importantly, read the client you so and then, you know, there's a lot of insecurities and all the things and people go through hard breakups just like us and all these things and you have to really be sensitive to that and kind of know what days you can push and when you can't. You know, before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes, shopping used to feel more fun. But here's a confession, fashionistas. You can find that fun feeling again on ebay. It's not mindless scrolling, it's a fashion pursuit. And when you score that rare Adidas collab or the Dior saddlebag you've been manifesting, it's a rush. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity Guarantee Ebay Things people love oh joy.

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How do you factor in those different emotional conversations or emotional states into how people look like? Do you do a post breakup haircut?

Yeah. I mean there's, there's clients that were going through stuff at the Time that would, like, come in, and it was gnarly. Public breakups, like, really bad. And they would come in, and they had been platinum blonde and, like, came in with, like, black hair, like, literally. And be like, this is who I am right now. I just want to wear black through this whole tour. Okay, cool. Re. Reset, Reset, reset.

You know, do you help people do the rebrand? I did, yeah.

I mean, I don't style anymore, but, I mean, I did. I mean, I. I would definitely do that. And we used to talk about it. We would have serious, like, meetings about it. Who do you want to be? Like, what was really challenging was when they were actually really happy people, but they were promoting a really dark film that was really sad because you don't want to necessarily come out on the carpet in, like, a beaded blush gown, you know, when you're talking about, like, your sister that died of cancer. Do you know what I mean? It's like, so those things were very. I found those really challenging a lot. But. Yeah, I mean, but. But to go back to the brand thing, I mean, I think coming out of styling, once I had my kids, my second child, I think I was still working with Jennifer Lawrence and Anne Hathaway and maybe one or two others, and I just remember having to leave, like, a week after I had him and just jumping into, like, hours of fittings and getting on a plane, and I was just like. It was a lot. You know, what would you say for

someone without a stylist? Like, where are, you know, three things someone can do today to improve their wardrobe or the way they dress or show up with confidence?

You know, I think I have always believed in a uniform of your favorite things, right? So in your closet, you should have variations on your favorite things, right? So if you're someone who loves denim, what's your favorite denim? Have those five pairs. Okay. I'm someone who. My denim is like a black pant. Like, a black, like, flared pant. I have. I'm not even just in New York for four days. I think I bought 12 pairs. Suede, velvet, leather, knit. You know, like, I. That is my go to. So, like, I believe that you should have the things that, you know, you love. They work on your body. It's your uniform. These four jackets, your favorite black leather jacket, whatever your. And those things should always be your go to is your favorite gold necklace, your favorite pair of hoops, whatever that is that, you know, if you have to leave in 10 minutes, like, you know, all of these things work. You're not Standing in this massive sea of clothes that's just staring at you, like, how do I mix and match this? Right. My God.

I think that that's a really good segue because we. We actually were talking about this in our solo episode of A Lot of. Getting Dressed is also removing cognitive friction from your day of. If you just have 10 pairs of jeans and 10 sweaters that you like, then you can just grab them and then you're good for the day, which is what I do now, which is really funny that you said that. I just was like, okay, here are jeans. I like, sweaters I like. I don't need to think about it.

It's your uniform. It's your go to. You know, it works. Like, it's. And that's. To me, it's like, you want to be the least stressed about getting dressed. And I find that 95 of people, especially women, are stressed about what they're wearing every day and stressed, obviously, different levels and what they're going to. But it's like, oh, it's that thing. And if you think about to. When we were little, if you didn't have a school that was a uniform, what was. When I think about, the only thing I stressed about, like, in middle school, in high school was like, what am I wearing? Did I wear that, like, on Monday? Is that, like, a repeat? I don't want to wear that again. Like, wait. And it was that thing that kept me up at night. Do I like this? Or whatever? And I know that not everyone is like that, but that was always the thing for me. So I think if you can take out that component, it's like you said, it's like, less brain spend, you know, one less thing. Yeah.

If you were to give us, like, top five fashion tips just very quickly for our audience, like, how would you break it down? Just for quick essentials.

I mean, I think that you have to look at your life. What are you doing in your life? Right? Like, what is your life like? Do you go out to things that are really, like, dressy and elegant and glamorous and probably not at this age, but, like, if you do, then you need to have your little, like, sparkly dresses that you're like, favorite little black dress that you can throw on, and you can dress it up or dress it down? For me, it's versatility. Right. Like, I would always say have a suit. Right. Like, but a cool suit. Like a, you know, like a great jacket and pant that you can mix and match 80 different ways. That is your absolute Go to. I'd say black mostly because it's easiest, but you can wear the pants. You can wear the trousers with, like, a white tank or a white shirt or a T shirt and flats. You could also wear it with heels and throw your hair up in a messy bun and put on a red lip and, like, go out, out. You know what I mean? You could wear the jacket with denim shorts and, like, cute little boots, like, ankle boots, and have a whole different, like, Isabel Marant vibe look. Like, there's 80 different ways that I could style a suit, but at least if you have those, that's, like, your basic. So I'd say that. And obviously your great pair of shoes, flats, and heels if you wear both. And what else? I would say. I would say everyone should have an amazing leather jacket that they can throw over everything because it just always makes everything look better. Like, a good black leather jacket is, like. Can save you.

You guys heard it. You all need leather jackets.

It just, like. And it can be faux leather if you're vegan. Like, it doesn't matter. It's just the vibe.

I'm a big secondhand. I like my second hand. Like, those are amazing. Okay. Favorite thing in your wardrobe.

I'm asked that all the time. It's like, I can't. I can't take picking a favorite child.

One of the favorite things in your wardrobe, or favorite child you choose.

Can't be a child. But I have a vintage Chanel coat that's here. That's one of my favorites. I bought it forever ago in Paris. And it's got, like, this amazing, like. Like, fur collar, and it's long, and it's got a little sparkle in it, and it goes almost to the ground. It almost feels like something Mick Jagger would have worn in the 60s. Or, like, a Steven Tyler. Like, it's like that vibe. It's like a. It's just. It's very rock and roll. That's why I like it. Like, it could be chrome hearts, you know, but it's just. It's everything.

You've styled, like, everyone in your career. If you could style one person, like, dead or alive, who would it be?

Oh, Brigitte Bardot.

That's a great one.

Definitely. Princess Diana would have been a great one. I always say if I could steal

anyone's closet, it'd be hers. I think one thing I'd love for us to touch on is talking to them about dressing for the job that they want. I think could be huge in, like, the confidence element of it.

Yes. I Mean, this is something I've really talked about in my career a lot because I think it's always a thing. It's like first date and first job and like job interview. It's so different now because, you know, job culture now is so casual because it used to be like, okay, if you're in finance, wear this, right? And if you're in film, then wear this. But now like 90% of the time I see young women working like they are in like leisure wear. They're in like casual leisure, they're in aloe, they're in lulith, you know, they're basically in like workout clothes. But like, it used to be that you were like Andy Sachs in a fashion magazine. You're, you were Anne Hathaway and it was like, you know, you had to dress for the part. And I still would like to believe that if you're, if you are getting into fashion, it really helps to look the part because, because you almost have to think about it as your daily costume. Right. And I think actors would tell you that their wardrobe, even if it's like a beat up pair of jeans and a T shirt that helps them with their character to get into that. And I think what you wear really, really affects how you put yourself out there in conversation, in an interview, if you're having meetings. Like, if you go into a meeting, I know me, if I'm going into like a board meeting, I'm wearing a suit, but I'm wearing like a tailored like me version of a suit. But I still feel the part, you know, But I rarely, rarely see people in suits anymore. Like, even in la, it's like if you see someone in a suit, he's a lawyer or he's an agent. I mean, that's it, you know, Everyone else is so casual. What do you guys see?

It really depends on the day. I mean, I'll be so fancy one day and I'll be in casual wear the next day.

But I think that's okay.

Like, I just think it's like dressing for your mood. Feel confident.

Exactly. That's why it's sort of like the way I answered that 15 years ago is so different than the way I'd answer it now. Because I just feel like now it's like almost anything goes. The only thing I would say is like, keep it appropriate.

Yeah.

You know, keep it appropriate because if you want to be taken seriously in the workplace, then don't distract people.

Something I was also curious about is I was reading an article that was talking about how you have so much knowledge of very specific things in fashion, like when it comes to fitting fashion history, all of this stuff. And it was talking about. I don't know if it's true. I'm curious. Like, you have a photographic memory.

I do. It's weird. It's funny, because my youngest son, Kais, has it, and I don't think I realized I had it. People would make fun of me. Like, my team would always be like, we would go through all of fashion season, right? And I would get to Paris at the end, and I'd be like, okay, I want the Prada look number, blah, blah, blah. That was on so and so. Or I'd, like, leave the Galiano show, and I'd be like, oh, the look that was on, you know, Amber Valletta, the one with the pink. And it had, like, you know, whatever. And I would describe it, and they would be like, are you okay? And I'd be like, I don't know. You know the one. But then the one before that was like, the one that was the more off white, but I want the one that's more blush. And so what I realized is it's. It's. It's. I'm such a visual thinker. And so if I see something. And what's really jarring now is because you don't learn people's phone numbers now, but I could tell you every phone number from when I was a kid of, like, my mom's, friends of my friends. And so I. I've realized now, through my son, that, like. Okay, wait, because I'm like, where do you got that photograph? Right. Okay. I have a photographic memory. So, like, I. I guess I do, because it's. I don't. It's a weird thing. Yeah, I mean, it's. I. I do, but it's. It's definitely things, I think things that have an impact on me, too. It's. It's. I'll never forget certain looks. I'll never forget for certain moments. You know, it's wild. It's wild. But then I could forget what happened two days ago. Like, someone. I literally ran into someone in an event yesterday, and they walked over to me, and I was like, nice to meet you. And I know them, like, well. And I was like, oh, my God, I haven't had, like, caffeine yet. I'm so sorry. I was horrified. Absolutely horrified. So I guess I do.

That's really cool. That's really impressive. And so I was also curious for, let's say, people who are listening who really want to break into fashion. What do you think are things that people should learn so that they're well equipped to enter the fashion industry?

You're. You're going to be surprised by the answer to this, although you guys would probably appreciate it, is that what I. What I would have. The way I answered that question, like 15 years ago is way different than I would answer it now, I think, because I had so many people that were like, I love fashion, I love clothes. I can't wait to be a stylist, like, da, da, da. And now I would say go to business school, like, understand business, you know, because the greatest lesson that I've learned over the course of my career is that having a foundational knowledge of business and how it works and what's important and how to think, building your own brand or business, if you have that knowledge. Because you're going to learn most of it on the job, right? That's the truth, is that you can learn through school, of course, and I think you should. But what you learn in your actual work in experiential, in those experiential moments is you can't. You can't like, clock that, right? But. But having a knowledge of business and how it works and not having to rely on another person for that part. Because whatever you do, fashion is not just loving clothes. It's not just beautiful things. And ask anyone who launches a clothing collection or a fashion brand or a beauty brand or anything else, they will tell you that, at least for me, 20% of that is creative and 80% of that is business. And navigating the politics and the people and the business and the finances and every part of that. So if you come in with that, you have. You are so armed and prepared for whatever comes. Because if you come in just going, I like clothes, I like pretty things, I like dressing people, you can't do that anymore. I really just don't think you can do that anymore. That is not serving yourself well and setting you up for success, in my opinion. You know, for most stylists, it's hard to make money. Um, and they need to diversify. So diversifying means business, right? Diversifying means having a product that is tangible and something that you can own. Because at some point, just providing a service, it's. You are only ever going to make as much as you work. And if, God forbid, you can't work, what are you doing? You know? And it happened to this amazing hairstylist in LA that like, she had, like a brain thing and she lost her, her ability to use her hands. She lost her salon, she lost her clients because what so but if she had a product, that product could feed her her business.

So I was going to ask how, how has finances and just obviously you have built a huge career. You've had these multiple successful businesses. Like you are absolutely a very successful entrepreneur. At what point in your journey did you start to learn these business fundamentals and also finance fundamentals of managing your money?

Over the last 10, 15 years I have gone to business school, I have gone, I have learned finance. I have learned not to the depths of what people really know, but I have enough knowledge to understand and know and navigate it alongside the people that really can do it professionally. But when I came in, oh my God, I mean I literally had no idea. I was like I because once I started launching different extensions and stuff, I had to really understand that because you're sitting in those rooms and you're sitting at the table and I'm like what are they talking about? But you know, my ex husband started as an investment banker so I was surrounded a lot by finance people. So I Learned what like LBOs and IPOs and you know, M and A and all those things. I learned that very young, just so I became verse in it. But it's not something I liked and something I, I wanted to do. But I do think honestly being able to sit in those rooms and know what people are talking about is so important.

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Only $25. I'm going to Metro when we hop off.

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Dear McDonald's, your breakfast menu. Fire tens across the board. I could be happy with anything, even though I ordered the same thing every time. Thanks for not judging me. I'll try something new next time.

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Pivoting from business to relationships a little bit, if you don't mind speaking about.

I know that I'm very open that

you went through divorce.

Everyone knows everything at this point, right?

I know that you went through a divorce with, you know, a man you've been with since called. I'm curious, like, what would your biggest relationship advice be? Two girls in their twenties.

Don't find your forever person too early. You know, don't put those timestamps on yourself. I didn't actually put a timestamp on myself. I found my person too early. I knew it then, truthfully, I did. I used to say like, I wish I could meet him at like 27, 28 and then be with him for like four or five years and then have kids. I knew that I met him too early, you know, but he was older than me and you know, so young. I mean, I was 19 years old. But you know, I would say that to young people. I think it's changed so much. I think the traditional ideas of marriage have changed so much. I think. I mean, I would never ever take a man's last name now. I wouldn't. I mean, I didn't really use it, to be honest with you. I used it like with our kids and like when we traveled and stuff like that. But in my professional life, from the age of 21, I was Rachel Zoe, you know. But I would say that the later you meet your forever person, the longer your forever is probably going to be. Because when you start too young, you think you know who you are. You don't yet. Right. Like, and I think there are the fairy tale endings. I mean, I'm pretty sure my ex and I thought we were dying next to each other up until like a couple years ago. And I think that there is this moment where I think girls, when their friends start getting married and guys or friends start getting married and it starts to be like, oh my God, we're late. Oh my God, we're late. But now, I mean, it's so funny. Cause I had kids, we were together 18 years before I had kids, so. I had kids so late. And the funny thing is, I was like, oh, my God, it's so late now. Literally everyone in my life is having kids at 38, 39. I mean, I have a friend that's pregnant right now at 48. She has two grown kids, but she's doing it again with a new husband. But, like, at the end of the day, those timestamps are so different now that my advice to women especially, it's like, you have to do you. You have to. You have to know your purpose before you enter, your joint purpose. And I really think that when you get married now, what I've been talking to people about now is like, the finances are separate. It's almost like there's three accounts. There's his, hers, or whoever. His. His what? Whatever it is. And. And then one that's together. And I find that so fascinating and. And liberating. I think it's actually brilliant, to be honest. I've thought about it a lot because I was like, wait, what? You guys don't share everything? So, like, if you go on vacation, like, who's paying for that? Like, what happens? You know, so it's a different dynamic, you know, but be. Be mindful of that because you can find yourself in 10 years from now, 15, 20 years from now, being like, cool, what am I doing? Who am I? My kids are out of school. What? I. I haven't worked in 20 years. Like, you know, I have no money. I have a prenup. He just cheated on me, you know, like, what? So you have to set yourself up for being the happiest, strongest version of yourself and then going to the marriage.

The thing that scares me is people don't realize how much funding is going into, like these social media campaigns. Yes, the trad wife.

Yes.

And it scares me so much because people don't understand. Like, it's starts with, yeah, I even get this. Like, I get targeted. Like, first it's baby content, like, oh, cute. Like babies, okay. Cooking content. I mess with that. And then like the next videos you get. And people don't realize, like, these are organizations on the right that are funding these media campaigns. 100 million budget a year you're going through. And then it's like, oh, trad wife is the best.

Like, your eye style.

And like, that scares me. It's such a regression because I really think that there's. And we were talking about this with a. With Vivian. Two came on the podcast there, like two models of partnership. Like the model where it's like two independent people choose to have a union together.

Yeah.

And be partners and support each other on, you know, kind of both your own journeys towards success and, you know, inner peace. And then there's this other model of, like, okay, you know, the one person is the. The one that matters. And then this is kind of a side person who supports.

And I. I know a lot of those. And that really scares me, because you

don't want to be especially. That's not the kind of guy you want to attract.

No, no. You really don't. And I do find I was. Saw this thing because I get served all this stuff, you know, on. On Social. And this guy was saying that men don't marry the love of their life. Men marry the woman that's there when he's ready and makes the process painless for him. And I. And I love men. I want to be very clear. I've said this before. I actually love great men. And I have. I come from a family of, like, the actual best. Like, best men. So I know what's possible. But. But I just think that as women, we just have to go in from this position of being happy with who we are and what our place is in the relationship. And the minute you feel that a guy is putting your. Dimming you in any way, right, it's like, you don't. You should never be in that. And I don't think that. I do think imbalanced relationships ultimately come to a head, you know, I think, where one is the star and one is the like, okay, baby, whatever you like. That can't. How, like, I don't respect a guy that does that to me. I need a guy that challenges my mind and calls me on my shit and, like, you know, makes me laugh and can. And can really, like, challenge anything I do. I don't. I don't want that, you know, And. And maybe that works for some people, but that's not fulfilling for me. Yeah.

I was gonna ask, what do you look for now when you think about your relationships now?

It's easy. It's like, well, first I have to be incredibly attracted to you. I have to want to kiss you. If I don't, we're not even having it like dinner, Right. We're just not. It's. I'm sorry. I don't mean it as a superficial thing. It's like an energy thing. It's like I'm attracted to you or not very intelligent. I have to be able to, like. I want him to know more than me about Most things, like I wore or I want him to be able to, like, mind match me, you know, I want to be able to challenge each other, right? Like, if I know more about certain things, like, okay, sure. But I don't want to be, like, teaching you things right all the time. That's not attractive to me. Ambition, it doesn't have to be money. I don't care about money. I just care that they're ambitious about whatever it is they do in their life. And I would say, most importantly, they have to. To make me laugh.

Well, something I also wanted to ask you about is you obviously work extremely hard, you have a demanding career, and then also you. You want to enjoy your life as everyone does. What is your view on work life balance.

I don't have it. If I never have had it, I really have never had it. It wasn't until I had my first son that I knew really what a weekend was and the purpose of a weekend, truthfully, because building a career as a stylist, there was no. There wasn't weekends. It was really seven days a week. And it was like, okay, every other week I'd maybe have a Sunday off, right? And on that Sunday, I'd sit in my bathrobe all day, not leave my house and just order in food all day and like, literally just need, like, a blanket to, like, just hide from life, you know? Cause I was so tired. But so I've never really been good at that. And then when I had my kids, I needed that time because I was like, you know, what I did was I tried to do both, right? So until they went to preschool and they were both in school full time, I literally just took them everywhere. Like, anyone who hired me knew that I was bringing my kids either to set or to wherever I was traveling to. I didn't. I really didn't leave them. It was rare. Like, if I did, it was 24 hours, 48 hours. So instead of balancing, I would just try and blend both. But that, after a while, became really hard.

How did all of this factor into your decision to join the Real Housewives?

I really felt that what I'm going through in my life right now, I really want to help as many women as I can, because there's millions. Even just when I announced it on Instagram that I was getting divorced, the outpouring of women across the world who then left their husbands or like, you know, or just wanted to talk about it and stuff, it really showed me how many women are in horrific situations that they feel really alone. In. And so I thought that. And you know, it just felt like the right time for my business, for being around women. Because I've really leaned on the incredible women in my life over the last two years more than I ever have. And you know, I've done one season so far. It's been great. And the Bravo fans are just like no other. They are so loyal and they're so die hard.

Rachel, thank you so, so much for coming on the Bird Outs.

We're honored to have you. I'm honored to be here. You guys are amazing.

Well, you're so iconic. It's been so amazing learning from you. We really, really appreciate your time.

Well, now you guys have to teach me things. Next time I'm interviewing you anytime.

Come.

Come to our office. We'll do a crash course. Yes, and we'll have to do that.

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oh joy. Another day, another buzz delayed.

Look on the bright side, you can finally catch up on podcasts.

You don't mind running late. What's your deal?

What's my deal? I saved at Metro with no activation Fees. I got one line of 5G for just $25 a month. Kept the phone I love and a 5 year price guarantee for my talk text and data.

Only $25. I'm going to Metro when we hop off.

Get that more for your money feeling only a Metro by T Mobile. Just bring your number. $30 first month and $25 after with auto pay price guarantee exceptions. Apply CSI for details.

Dear McDonald's, your breakfast menu Fire tens across the board. I could be happy with anything even though I ordered the same thing every time. Thanks for not judging me. I'll try something new next time.

Maybe score a two for five dollar deal on a sausage McMuffin with egg and more. Limited time only. Price and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer. Single item at regular price.