[Sales] Early career learnings in sales with Aimée Egglesfield

One thing I would go back on and tell myself is don't put so much pressure on yourself to know all the answers coming into those first discovery calls, because they're called discovery calls for a reason. You know, I think customers really don't expect you to know the ins and outs of their specific research field. And it's far more important to have curiosity about it, because I think as long as it's coming from a genuine place, because that's what people really pick up on. I think when you're connecting with people for the first time, at the end of the day, if you're genuinely curious about what that person's doing, they're going to remember that. Because authenticity is so much, so much more valuable to someone than, like, just, you know, pretending to know what it is that they're doing.

Hello, and welcome to the second edition of the Women in Sales Month Takeover of the sales unicmycast. Today again, we have my lovely colleague.

Dubia, and he also had Amy Egglesfield joining us. Hey, Amy, thanks for coming on.

Hi, Amy. Really happy to be here today. I've been following succession for actually quite a while, ever since it sort of started. So it's really cool to sort of be speaking to you here on this podcast.

Yeah, it's great to have you.

So in the true nature of the podcast, we will ask you our standard question, which is tell us a crazy or funny story that has happened happened to you at work.

So, yeah, I was thinking about this, and I think definitely the most memorable and slightly crazy work story that happened to me in the last four years of my sales career was probably when I was about to go on what I thought would be my first big sales meeting. So I think it was about three years ago. It was kind of like my first big sales trip. I was really excited we were going to go to Madeira. And it's like the sales trip that never actually happened because we got to the airport, got on the plane, flew pretty much all the way there. I remember literally seeing Madeira out of the window of the plane. We were that close. And then pretty much at that exact moment, over the intercom on the plane, the pilot announces something you really don't want to hear when you're in the middle of a flight. I believe it was something along the lines of, unfortunately, we don't have very good news. And then they proceed to say, unfortunately, the landing conditions are not really good enough for us to attempt to land today, so we're going to have to divert somewhere else. We don't know where that is right now, but we'll keep you updated. Turns out they diverted us to Tenerife in the end, but we couldn't get off the plane and then there were lots of angry passengers and long story short, we were told that plane was needed later at Gatwick, so we flew straight back to Gatwick again. So yeah, all in all it was just a very crazy and unexpected travel experience and quite, I suppose, yeah, just always sticks in my brain all these years later. I have been on other sails beating since just to say.

Yeah, I feel like it's sales people out of anyone have like the wildest travel stories. Like it feels like something happens to them during travel to a conference just so much more frequently than everyone else. But well, I mean, you know, at least you hit a few different countries and you didn't have to go to a big sales meeting. Although I'm sure you were excited about it as we kind of all are, especially in those early phases. Yeah, that was great. Did you, did you like get to look out the window at Tenerife? You know, see some of the, the sights from the plane?

At least they did open the door. So I felt like a sort of wave of heat coming through the plane York for a second. I was also sat next to someone who was an extremely nervous flyer. So I just felt really bad for them the whole time. Like you know, words, things have happened, we were all safe. So that was the main thing. But yeah, still quite stressful at the time.

Yeah, I can, I bet I'm, I'm.

A pre service buyer and that would, yeah, that would freak me out a little bit. But. So you've kind of told us about.

Your journey to a, one of your.

First sales meetings there. What about your kind of journey into life science sales? How did you decide that that's what you wanted to do?

And you know, what were those expectations.

Early on and yeah, tell us a bit about that.

Yeah, so it's kind of interesting because I feel like I came from a science background at university. I did biomedical sciences and a master's in a similar field. And I suppose I'd never really been someone who knew like what they really wanted to do right off the bat. And I think I've always been the kind of person who kind of, I guess suppose takes a risk and then just makes the best of it really. And I think yeah, I'm just happy to take opportunities that come my way and see how they go. So I came across my first sales role just online, but I Think what enticed me to go for it at the time was I've always been the type of person who I think is quite sociable, and I'm very driven by helping people. So I thought it was a nice balance between still being connected to sort of the technology and the side from the lab, but also I think having that more sociable side that I wasn't really getting doing we'll have. But. So I think that's what drew me to it. I didn't quite know what it would entail, but I was willing to just kind of go for it and see how it went.

And so then I think you kind of summarize there some of the visions in your head of what you had of maybe what sales would be like and talking about the social side of it. Was there any kind of other, you know, impressions that you had of what salespeople were like at that time and what was that like stepping that role? Did you.

Were they kind of realized there's things.

That were real about salespeople, or were you kind of quite surprised when you got into that role?

I think when I started, I definitely had this impression that sales was quite performative and like you had to sort of be a certain way or maybe I suppose almost be kind of impressive in a sense. And I definitely fell into the trap of comparing myself to other people that had more experience than I did. And I think, yeah, looking back, I would definitely want to be a lot more like a lot less hard on myself in terms of the expectations and the standard that I have for myself at the time. I think it took me a long time to kind of find myself in sales and find my way of working and what felt right for me. And I think it's unique in the sense that in a lot of other things I've done in my life, I feel like you kind of find the way of doing it fairly quickly. But for me, in sales, I found that it was more of a slower progression of binding what felt right. And maybe that's just more of my personal journey. But yeah, I would say it even took one or two years before I really found my flow in terms of what worked for me and what didn't. But I think something that was really important for me, especially with overcoming that sort of fear of rejection and I suppose how I was perceived environment and by the customers that I was helping as well.

I actually relate to that quite a bit because I have less than a year experience in sales now. And in terms of how you're perceived in the role and how you feel like you need to be, you know, going above and beyond at all times and really creating this great impression. And, you know, it's quite hard. It's. It's easy to be hard on yourself. And I get this. I get told so many times by a lot of people in my current job, in my previous job, to not be so hard on yourself. And I think it's a natural pressure when you are early on in your, your career and sort of that aspect of whenever you get, you feel rejected or you've maybe not completed a task or done something in a way that maybe another sales rep has, you kind of take it a little bit, you take it a little bit personally. And I think that's natural when we, when we shouldn't. And I think, like, what advice would you sort of give to people early on in their, in their sales careers and how to deal with, with these rejections?

The first thing I think I'd probably say is that it does take time. Like inevitably you will make mistakes and that's okay. You might send some bad emails here and there. Everyone sends bad emails. But one of the best pieces of advice that I think still sticks with me is like, no one's going to remember a bad email. And eventually you will start to learn what works and what doesn't and what you feel comfortable with. And what you feel like is like your best quality work, I suppose. And I think when you taking the time to really understand the value of what it is that you're selling and appreciate kind of why people would want that product, I feel like that does take away the, the fear of, of being rejected. Because if you really know the value behind it, you know that when people say no, it's really nothing to do with the quality or anything that you could have done differently. It's just, it's just like usually down to fit or like compatibility.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's a, that's a really good point. And I think one of the things I struggled with, so I worked for a service provider before, and a lot.

Of the time that, like, sales cycle.

Is very long, you know, anywhere from like three to nine months where you're talking to a potential client, you're designing projects, you're going through like various iterations of project proposals and you getting to know them as people, and you kind of develop that relationship. And one of the things that I got told so much is like, you can't take it personally like when like that deal falls through because, like, you had 100% conversion rate, like, you wouldn't have no worries in the world. Great. But that's not the reality. And I kind of struggled with that.

Because I got attached because I put so much in.

But I actually really enjoyed the science and really enjoyed working with people and wanted that project, and I knew that we could help them. And so I also think that I kind of disagree that, you know, you can't, you know, have feelings about that in a negative way, and you can't take it to press. Like, I didn't take it as a. I learned not to take it as, like, a personal slight against the work I'd done. But you can still feel, you know, sad about something that's not gone through. And I think the most important part about that is you, like, give yourself the space to be sad about it because you have a lot of work in there, and then you go, right, okay, what can I learn from it? What would I do different in future? If it really isn't anything that you can do, then you move on and you go to the next one. Yeah, but I think it is, you know, a lot of times salespeople like using it. I'm devoid of emotion. And, like, you got to be, like, hard and move on and not take things personally. But, like, it's also okay prepare because or in the shop is like, overall, all of us want to contribute to, like, human health and, like, happiness in some sort of way, just in our own kind of role. And so, yeah, I think it's really when people are like, oh, well, you know, you can't care too much. But I think there's a strength to that as well, and knowing how to take that and do better in future and learn from it.

Yeah, definitely. I think you touched on a few really important points there. I think, as you said, there's only so much that's actually in your control. And I think it's really important to remind yourself that you have done everything in your control when it comes to maybe a certain deal or a certain customer situation. And I do think it's really important in the world of sales, especially if you're someone who does have quite a high standard for yourself and you want, you know, you're motivated by helping others and feeling like you've made a difference. I think it is really important to find ways to measure your success in other ways than just revenue. And I feel as though what you were saying with those customers, I'm sure that the value added wasn't forgotten, even though the deal didn't go through, I'm sure that they, you know, that rapport you built with them will, you know, it would have, it would have made a difference at some point later down the line. I think that's the hardest thing about sales. Sometimes you don't reap the benefits until quite a lot later down the line. I think as well, what you were touching on is in those times where it maybe doesn't go to plan or you're disappointed, it is important to sort of remember what it is that is motivating you. And I think, yeah, finding those other, other aspects in the situation, like even things as simple as like timely follow up, I think that's such an important and underrated part of sales. And if you think about, you know, I know that for me in my own personal life, a lot of the things that I value in my life are actually what a lot of is important to emulate in the sales world as well. But yeah, I think just finding ways to keep self motivated, allowing yourself to process your emotions for sure.

Yeah.

No one wants a bottled up salesperson that's gonna let go at any point. Those are really good points. I think there's a lesson there for anyone, you know, early in that sales career of being like, okay, if you know you are, you feel those emotions, it's what you do with them and how you act on it. And it's the classic kind of saying of like, you know, if you can't, like you can't control, there's some things that you don't be able to control, let go of them and focus on the things you can control and make sure you do it better next time. And I think that's another important topic really of one of the things that I felt early on because a lot of the time going to a role as a salesperson, you might have a life sciences background, gone and done a degree or a massive. And that's common parts, the three of us on call. But a lot of the time you're not going into sales position. It's like exactly what you did your masters on, exactly what you know, the modules that you took at university that.

Feel like your specialist subject. And so there's a lot of learning.

To do around specific companies, products or.

Services or whatever it might be. For me, I learned way more about the nematode worm than I ever cared to learn about the nematode worm. I think they're great. I'll be a worm person for life.

But I think there's so much in that you feel like you have to get into your head. You have to know on that first sales call. Just don't think it really does like that.

I didn't quite catch the end of that last question.

I think product knowledge expectations is basically the summary.

Yes. No, I get. I completely get what you mean. Yeah, I think there is that pressure to have to go into a call knowing absolutely knowing your customer inside out. You know, don't get me wrong, I think it's incredibly important to do research on the customer in terms of knowing roughly what area they're in, just from the perspective of, you know, showing that you obviously are coming in with a level of respect and prior knowledge. But I think one thing I would go back on and tell myself is don't put so much pressure on yourself to know all the answers coming into those first discovery calls, because they're called discovery calls for a reason. You know, I think customers really don't expect you to know the ins and outs of their specific research field. And it's far more important to have curiosity about it because I think as long as it's coming from a genuine place, because that's what people really pick up on. I think when you're connecting with people for the first time, at the end of the day, if you're genuinely curious about what that person's doing, they're going to remember that. Because authenticity is so much, so much more valuable to someone than like, just, you know, pretending to know what it is that they're doing. When you ask those questions, it also gives you a great opportunity, if you don't know the answer, to come back and follow up. You know, I think that's what a lot of people forget. It's definitely more about having a shared learning experience with the customer. You're telling them about the product, but it's also up to them to decide how they want to apply it based on the information you're giving them. And at the end of the day, chances are they don't know much about the technology you're telling them about. So you're still going to be the expert on whatever it is that you're selling them. And, yeah, even if you think they might have some knowledge on the technology or product, as long as you know 1% more than the other person, you're still the expert. So, yeah, definitely approach it more from a perspective of curiosity rather than pressure to understand everything about the customer straight away, because they wouldn't expect you to either.

Let's take a quick break from the podcast to talk about what we have going on over here at Succession we work with 40 plus life science sales companies to help them find more opportunities and close more deals. We provide a range of services to support your sales growth. So whether it's increasing top of funnel opportunities with done for you lead generation in person or virtual sales training reinforced by personalized training plans, recruiting top sales talent or just building custom AI workflows to help make your team more efficient focus on selling. So if you're ready to transform your sales strategy, visit Succession bio and schedule a call with Nick and I and we'll see how we can support you.

And I think that, you know, I think there's a great pressure as we've been discussing that you need to learn all the technical information before you go onto the call when in reality there's not and how you're saying about, you know, just conveying that the importance of being your authentic self. These potential customers sort of will see you as a person and are investing in you and how you're going to sort of, yeah you know, progress the project. So it's very much down to the sales role is a people's role for a reason. And I think, I think there's just importance of asking the right questions as opposed to knowing the technology inside and out. They are the experts. At the end of the day our role is just to help guide them in the process. So yeah, I think, you know, it's not, you don't need to learn the insides and outs of their technologies. You'll learn that as you go through and they will explain and help you to make sure that that match is there and that's what our role would be as the sales rep in that process. And I think, you know, yeah, just asking those right questions is, is what we're supposed to do. Right. We're not supposed to learn. We don't. There's no expectations that we put upon ourselves to know everything inside. I and I think that we have to realize that the potential client is also aware of that too.

Yeah, definitely.

I think you're so like both of you so right there with like asking a question and Amy, you touched on something about being able to admit like.

When you don't know the answer. And I think that's something that a lot of people early in their careers really struggle with because you think that you have to go into that call like knowing all the answers. You feel really uncomfortable being like, you know what, I'm not sure on that one right now but I'll speak with my team and I'LL get back to you.

Like that's such a valid answer to give. Like if someone said that to me on a call I'd be like great.

You know what, I'd prefer you to go and do that and come back to me with a legit answer instead of something that you've made up because you think it's what I want to hear. And but it's so hard to do that when you're sat on that discovery call.

You want to have like all the confidence worlds answer all their questions and they ask you something that stumps you completely. But yeah, having that confidence to be like I don't know the answer to that right now, but I'll find out for you, I think gains a lot more respect than around it and trying to make things up. So both of you then talked about kind of making sure you're asking the right questions. And I think questions in discovery calls particularly are so important for establishing what it is that they're actually interested in what it is with what you're selling and also figuring out what stage they're at end up buying cycle. Like do they actually need this thing now or do they need it? And so just curious to get or tips on what kind of questions you might ask to get that.

I think one thing I always like to gain clarity on in a discovery call is how well the customer understands the technology being a great fit for what it is they're doing. Because maybe they have an interest in the technology or the product but they might not have that in depth understanding of what makes it the best fit. And so I think the way I try and weave that into the conversation is I just maybe drop in somewhere like so why do you think that X product is the best solution for your project? And rather than saying sort of why are you interested in our company or our product? Why do you think that this is going to enhance what you're doing further than you know what you've been doing before? And I. And because that then gives me leverage to know do I need to go into further detail on the, the product fit or if they've already got an understanding of that then I can advance the discussion further to sort of like the next steps or things like that. I don't know about you Divya, if you've got any.

Yeah, I mean just to add on that like discovery calls, it's a two way qualification and that's how I always say it. We're qualifying the potential client to see is this going to progress the next Stage as well as them saying if we think they think our products would work well with them. So I think understanding that purpose that you know, there's no prep, it's better to disqualify someone at the discovery stage as opposed to pushing it through just so then the, there's a higher probability of this potential deal but then it's going to be rejected from the pipe regardless at some point. So you rather do it first. And I think being a bit tough and a bit more brutal but realistic at the start is key. But again, you know, I think there is a pressure when you're in your early stages that you want to make sure you're passing through things through the pipe. But I know that I rather pass through and qualifies deals through the pipe as opposed to fill it with junk. So yeah, it's trying to get that balance right and having the confidence to sort of believe in your own instincts and know when you rather have smaller, less deals that you're passing through but they're actually going to turn into, you know, like POS at the end of it. But it is tricky as well, especially in your early, your early sales career.

I love that because there's so many people out there and I've, I've, I've done it like with like an over, like an overinflated pipeline where you're like these things are not real and you do have to go in and call it. And that comes from those discovery calls where you're not probably not asking the right questions or you're not diving deeper into it because you're kind of taking surface level what you want to hear and going oh yeah, there's probably a fit, there's. And you know, let's keep this moving. But I think the key thing and what you both touched on is like you've got to really understand what those like potential customers challenges are on that call. Like what are they experiencing that you can help with And I think it also helps with how to shape the pitch as well. And it's something that I struggled with confidence wise going into a sales role and I think a lot of other people experience as well is you kind of learn your pitch like you learn your pitch deck. This is what I'm going to talk about, this is what I'm going to talk to the customer about. And you kind of have that confidence issue of I don't want to deviate from that because I'm not sure whether I can hold my own in that conversation even though definitely can because You've done it before or you know that you have that knowledge. But asking those like, kind of probing questions about, like, what the challenges are, like, why do you think this is a fit? How is this going to help your project? You can start to be like, right, okay, I don't need to then just.

Go through these 10 slide with. It's like crew fun.

You can start to talk about how.

That technology, solution, product, whatever it might be, actually fits in with their specific challenges and project aims that they've already told you about, which I think makes for such a better discovery ball and.

Gives you that outcome at the end.

That is like, okay, I know whether.

This deal is real or not. And you have to actually accept that.

It might not be.

They might not answer your questions the way you want them to. Um, and you kind of get that sense as you're going through your pitch to be like, I'm saying things here, but like, I don't really think those two things connect that well. And it gives you that information to kind of take forward and decide whether you rip that straight out of your CRM at the end of the call or kind of move it along to the next stage. Um, and I think that a lot of that sometimes and not having that confidence to ask those questions and be able to deviate from that script comes down to a lot of the, like, imposter syndrome that we have in our heads.

And I think that is, like, affects women a lot more just because I think we guess ourselves a lot more. A lot of the time when we're going into those, we're looking at, quite frankly, like middle aged white men in.

Senior leadership positions in biotech and pharma who, you know, we feel like we feel inferior to. And I think that affects our confidence.

So with you being like, early in that career stage, I just wanted to.

Know whether imposter syndrome was something you'd experience and you know, how you've really navigated that in the early stages.

Definitely. That's something I really resonate with actually, especially when I was first sort of starting out. And I think on those calls, as you were saying, it's very easy to kind of overthink what you're saying and feel like you have to come out with the most perfect phrasing for everything you're saying to a customer and not deviate from a script. I think it is easy to let yourself feel intimidated by people as well, who are maybe more senior than you or fit a certain Persona or stereotype in your head. And yeah, I Think it's something that I definitely had to work on. Especially I think as women we are prone to sort of being, you know, too perfectionistic at times. And I think sometimes there is this pressure to hold yourself to an extremely high standard. I think one thing I've learned as I've become more self aware as well is that because I am somebody who does hold myself to the quite high standard just doing something and it not being like my absolute best. I'm not saying not condoning to everyone, don't try hard, it's. But I think, you know, just doing something is better than nothing. And I would say that I'm a big fan of a mantra and I think one thing I always try and remind myself of is that progress is always better than perfection. So it's to have a growth mindset and be like, I could always get better at this, I could have done this better. But it's so easy to forget like how far you've actually come when you look back. And I think finding ways to celebrate the small, small wins as you go is actually really important. Like I'm a big fan of organization and planning, so I'm not naturally the most organized person. But every week I write myself a list that's broken down by my role responsibilities. And I find that just like printing that out and having that as a reference point for my week and just being able to cross that off gives me an immense amount of satisfaction because I know that I'm someone that yeah, really loves to hold myself accountable to what I say I'm going to do. So focusing my energy more on being like, oh, I set out to do this thing and I'd done it and that feels great. From being like I have to do everything perfectly, I think really helped shift my perspective. And then I think it helps build your confidence as well. Like looking back and saying I've achieved all these things. But as well, I think if you, when you're on a call and as you mentioned perhaps you feel slightly intimidated or like you don't deserve to be there. It's very important to take people off pedestals, I think because no matter how senior someone is, they're still, they're still human, they're still someone outside of their job. And I always try remind myself of that as well. I see everyone as sort of like an equal. So I think, yeah, I try and remind myself of that. But it's definitely something that I have and still do. I'd say like battle with.

And I think it's natural like I don't think, if I'm being completely honest, that I'll not ever experience imposter syndrome as I progress in my sales career. Like, it always creeps up on me in every job and every role. And I think it just boils down to the fact that it's because I care. It's because I want to put so much, I want to put my all into the role, into the job, and I think that's fine. And having that understanding of why I'm feeling this way, it's because I care. And I think, yeah, you touched on a great point, Amy, about, you know, even recording dawn, like these small objectives and then smashing it and looking back and just acknowledging how far you've come is a really good way, I think, to accept how far you've, how well you've done and sort of realize that, well, I'm not feeling this emotion as much as I did six months ago. It's dying down. Why is it dying done? Because look how much I've achieved. Um, so, yeah, that, that really resonated with me.

Yeah, I, I put exactly the same.

And I think a lot of the.

Time.

You, you do get so bogged down in the weeds of what sales is and like, you know, there's targets to hit and there's always another customer like emailing you or someone that you've got to follow up with. And I think it is super important to celebrate those wins and kind of look back and see how far you've come. And I think there's kind of like a practical tip there as well on. You do forget. And when you want to go to apply for that next job, you kind of go, oh, I've done all the, all these things and like celebrated all these wins, but they just don't come.

Out of your head.

So one of the pieces of advice that I was given early on was like, write them down. The things that you're getting involved with that are going above and beyond in your day to day job. Other things you're getting involved within the company, make a note because you will Forget them in 2, 3 years time when it comes to kind of, yeah, put them down on a piece of paper. But it's also great for yourself, like, to be like, wow, like I've. If you were to tell me on day one of this job that I.

Would have been able to achieve what I've done now, you know, it's crazy. So kind of keeping that perspective and reminding yourself on those bad days when you've got, you know, Send, like, rejections or someone's not responded to your email, and you just feel like you're gonna. Going up against the brick wall. And I also think it's okay to be scared, like you said. I mean, like, you.

You can go into it and, you.

Know, not be sure of yourself, but you're still doing it. You've got to just do it. I think if there's probably times when I have, like, shied away from things, like, much earlier on, instead of just going and doing it nervous. I'm just saying, which I always love, is that, like, fear and bravery feel exactly the same. So, like, do it, do it scared.

And then the next time you do.

It, you'll probably feel a little bit less scared.

Yeah.

And another tip that actually just came into my head there, you know, with this imposter syndrome idea, a lot of it is just inflicted upon ourselves, but reaching out to other people within your team and just asking for almost 360 feedback. So asking feedback from people that are in higher positions than you, that are in positions that are lower than you, and just seeing how they think you're doing in your job and how you are, you know, implemented and integrated into the team. And that's sometimes a reality check for yourself, that you know what you're doing really well and people really appreciate you and value and you're working so well within the team, and hopefully that sort of calms the imposter syndrome. And then also another thing is, I think we touched on this in our last podcast with me was about mentors. And, you know, again, this is. People have walked this walk before, and seeking advice from people that have already done those things and have those feelings, I think is really important because it makes it feel real. And it's a normal process to feel, not just specifically for sales. Everyone feels imposter syndrome when they go into any role. So I think talking to other people that feel the same and getting their advice is also really useful.

Yeah, that's a great point as well. Conscious that we're coming up on time here, so maybe Amy, just to finish us off on the great ones that we've kind of covered so far, is if you were to kind of go back to day one, Amy, starting that first sales job as yourself, other than, you know, that being a terrifying experience, seeing yourself.

What.

What advice would you give to her?

Yeah, I think probably the most crucial piece of advice I'd give myself is just that there are no such thing as stupid questions. I think I used to get so worried about asking A question that seemed really simple. Oh my God, I'm going to look stupid. Because I should know the answer to this. Or like worrying too much about how that would make me look if I asked what I deemed to be a stupid question. But really there's no such thing as one. And actually I think that people who aren't afraid to ask even what they think are the most stupid questions are inevitably the people that will get ahead the quickest because they, you know, aren't worried about that. They'll learn faster. So I would just say, yeah, like don't worry about looking silly. You felt asking them. I think as well definitely have patience and recognize that it is going to be a journey and you won't have everything figured out in weeks, months, even years. Like I'm still learning now. It's something that you constantly are learning new things. I think as well. Being someone who is quite naturally sensitive, I would say, yeah, like balance your ambition and wanting to do well in the job with self compassion a little bit. Like what you were saying, Jess, about if you feel bad about something not working out or you think you need to put on a brave face, like you really, you don't have to obviously, you know, maybe you, you go home and then you, you, you process those emotions. But it's, it's okay to have emotions about things not working out in your job and you shouldn't have to feel like you have to camouflage that.

Yeah, great. Well, I don't think we can give any more advice to, of that. So thank you so much for joining us today. We'll see you again in a few years when you're in the next stage of career. You tell yourself today, maybe you'll appear in the room with us as your future self.

Yeah, that would be cool.

That would be cool.

Well, someone's going to do time travel.

At some point, surely, so I have to wait.

I tell you what, I wish I'd done this when I first started out and then I could like have a reference point.

Well, at some point we'll have like enough technology that you can just take videos of your earlier self.

We should all have a conversation with.

Each other, see how you do my video chat bot of your past self or something.

Okay.

On. On Video Chatbot robot, Time traveler. No, we'll say goodbye for now, but we'll be back again for another Women in Sales Month takeover episode. We need to shorten that. Definitely need to shorten that. But yeah, great.

Lovely to have you on, Amy. And we'll. I'm sure we'll speak you soon.