Aligning Vision and Processes to Improve Sales Team Performance

Hello everyone. Welcome back again to the wonderful episode of Coffee Time with Sales Table. Today I'm accompanied by Robin Singh from Sandler Mississauga, and this is actually in a 4-part series. Today is the final part, and the last 3 parts have gotten amazing feedback for us. Thank you for all the comments that everybody is trying to provide. And especially, I think, you know, the 13 blind spots is something, Robin, you know, even though sometimes when you look at it, it just feels very natural. Oh, yeah, absolutely. But then it's really the angle of saying, looking at each and every one of it, and then acting on it. So thank you for providing that framework, Robin. Welcome to the episode.

Hey, thank you very much, Suresh. It's good to be back again for our 4th and last edition, I guess. I'm hoping that during the last 3 sessions and as we bring the 4th session to close, that there's some golden nuggets that everybody's picked up from these sessions and they've implemented within their organization.

Yeah, absolutely. Just as a refresher, I think the first episode we've definitely looked into, Robin, more on the high-level aspect of what those blind spots for sales leaders mean and everything ranging from the whole of recruitment, the process management, the high-level vision boarding and everything. On the second one, we focus specifically on the aspects of recruitment. What does a good sales rep mean? Then do you need to hire a VP or manager role or an SDR role? for example. And that's the second episode. And then the third episode really focused on coaching, activity management, and what does it really mean by a good mentor means for the sales leaders. And then finally, in this part, what we are going to really see is it's natural that at this point of time, the businesses are changing rapidly, whether it is about the business models or their customers and anything that we talk about, which basically means the organization itself has to be agile. They need to adapt to the changes pretty quickly. We've seen that with pandemic, a lot of things change. And now again, we are seeing with the economy, whatever that helped you to succeed to get to that multimillion-dollar ARR is not helping anymore. That is the case. The idea again really is in the context of sales teams. What does it really mean by having a vision and then bringing that vision down to the actual sales teams? And that's the topic for today. So to really kick it off, Robin, I mean, I just want to share the 13 Blind Spots just so our viewers can look into it. So this is actually a great framework, Robin, you brought in. But today, I think, couple of topics that I would like to focus on is, for example, this is actually a great one. The 3rd, which is failing to tie corporate goals to personal goals, is, I'm sure, a topic everybody wants to become better at. That's number one. And then when a company doesn't really have any methodologies or systems, but they still have to achieve What are they supposed to do? For example, that's the number 2. And then the number 3 is this not sharing the vision with those who have to implement, right? I think, you know, those are the probably high-level topics that we will touch on. But in general, I would like to probably just start off by saying, from your perspective, what does it really mean by vision and aligning that with sales team's vision?

Yeah. Before I answer that question, there's one last piece we need to add to the summary. And that is the blind spots really can impact business owners, CEOs of organizations, right? And one of the things that we noticed when we looked at it is these organizations, they can fall into one of 4 buckets, right? The first one, With blind spots, they could be at risk, or they could be average. They could be well-managed, and they could be organizations of excellence. And so, if we fix the blind spots, these companies can move from the at-risk to average to well-managed to excellence. And that's where— that's the whole goal of the 13 Blind Spots and what we try to get organizations to go to. Which is the level of excellence, which really ties into the second part of your question, right, which is the vision and how that happens. And typically, what we find is when business owners, CEOs, executives, and their management teams have that vision of where they want to go, that really takes them to that level of excellence because then they're very proactive in what's coming down the pike. versus reactive. And that allows them to really stay ahead of the curve when it comes to, you know, any challenges or any roadblocks or blind spots that they're going to— that they could come across in their journey. So, so the proactive CEO, right, they're ahead of the curve when it comes to any of these blind spots that we, that we, you know, that we spoke about. So.

Absolutely. So Robin, I think in that scenario, I mean, I'm really thinking through some of the common problems that sales leaders have these days, right? Which is, yes, economy is tough. Some of the assumptions that we made, let's say the previous couple of years or the previous quarter, are not the same assumptions that are taking us to the next level.

Yeah.

If that is the case, I mean, let's just take an example of I have 2 more quarters in this year and I have, let's say, $2 million to close. I mean, that's something coming from, let's say, a board, and then the CEO and the execs kind of meet to say, okay, next 2 quarters, $2 million as the target for us. And now, given that context, what does it really mean by, how does, how should sales leaders should process that information and then really bring it down to the people who actually execute it? Because at the end of the day, if my salesman managers, if my SDRs or inside sales or AEs don't understand the urgency of it, it's very difficult to execute is number one. But at the same time, you also don't want to be fully transparent in a way where, hey, if we don't do this, then we are done as a company, right? So how do we balance that kind of bringing the vision to the team?

Well, I mean, so, so vision is one thing, right? I mean, if I'm gonna go in a little deeper instead of high level, because if you think about, if you think about the scenario where the CEO, VP of Sales says, hey, we've got, we've got a $2 million nut to crack, right? In the next 2 quarters. Okay, what's the game plan? Okay, then we've got to figure out, okay, what's my— let's assume what's my sales team? If I've got 5 sales leaders or sales managers or sales reps in my sales team and I say that $2 million that I have to crack equals to what? $500K per person, right? $500K times 20. There's your $2 million. So, each rep is $400K.

Right, right, right, right.

So, so that's one way. That's how I break them down. If that— is that the scenario you're looking for?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. How do we kind of really take it down?

Yeah, right. So I break it down now. I break it down to $400 per rep. Okay, then I look at, okay, what's the sales cycle? What's the sales cycle for each? What's the average deal? Okay. So, let's assume my average deal is, let's say, $100K to make it easy. That means the sales guy's got to bring in 4 deals for him to hit his target. Then, I got to go, okay, what is the cycle? What's the sales cycle for each deal? If it's a year, we're not going to hit the number.

Right.

Right? Okay. So, we got to figure what the sales cycle is. Okay? Once I figure the sales cycle, then I know whether or not this is doable. Right? But beyond that, right? Beyond that, right? If I look beyond that now, not ahead, if I look back and I go, hang on a second, why am I in this boat? Okay?

Yeah.

So, I got to say, why am I in this boat? Right? Why is that pressure for me to hit the $2 million? Is it because I didn't do proper analysis? Is it because I don't have the right people sitting in the right seat on the bus? Is it because my ideal client profile isn't well-defined for the sales rep? Okay. Is it too early in the market? Whatever the number, whatever that is, I need to figure, understand what that is. Because I don't want to be in that pressure situation whereby you come to me and say, Robin, this is it. You got, you got 2 quarters to hit this number or else. I mean, that's, that's pressure, right?

Yeah.

So, um, there could be a number of, you know, components that really causes that and what that is, right? And you never want to be there in that pressure situation, right?

So, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, so just to kind of dissect that, I think, uh, what, what you're suggesting is, let's say When I've, as a VP of Sales, I was given a number, sometimes yes, I have an input in deciding that number and most often unfortunately not. If that is the case, the idea really is come back, look into the team that you have, look into the sales cycles that you have, and then what is the pipeline that you currently have? what is that that you need to generate to really hit the target of the 2 quarters? Then maybe proactively have all those data points and then go back to your management team as to say, hey, you know what, to really hit this and this is my plan of action. At that point of time, if it means maybe bringing in 2 additional members that you need or you may need to change something, whatever that is, But this time, you actually have a plan of action, rather than just talking about, oh, whether it can be achieved or it can't be achieved.

Right? Yeah, gotta have a plan, right? And the other thing too is, I mean, when I, you know, when I work and coach with our, with our leaders, one of the things we say to them is, is what are you measuring? Are you measuring lagging indicators? Are you measuring leading indicators? And most times, at times, not every time, but most times we see them tend to look at the lagging indicators, which is the results, right?

Yeah.

And we come back and say, well, hang on a second, you know, then you can't— how could you measure success, right? So you got to look at it from a rep perspective. What is the leading indicators that they're doing to get to the lagging indicators? That's another scenario to look at to say, okay, where are we? What's my team doing? How are we measuring from a coaching training perspective as a VP of Sales, as a sales leader?

Right, right, right, right, right. So transitioning that, let's say at this point of time, I have my numbers figured out. And I think probably we need to have a separate discussion on this one, Robin, which is there is always this kind of emotions that really come in when we talk about the quota decisions, right? Because what is the right way to say what is the quota for every quarter? I think every sales leader feels slightly different on how they decide to arrive at the quota, right? It's one thing to say, oh, you know what, yearly I have to make $10 million. I mean, this year I need to make $10 million revenue, so just divide by the quarter and then get to that. Or sometimes everybody knows that the Q4 of the calendar year is slightly slower in North America. If so, then front-load it into Q1, Q2, Q3, whatever that mechanism is. Let's say that is done. At this point of time, I have my reps that are out there. One of the things that I know in the previous discussions that you are very passionate about is understanding people's personal goals, and then tying that to the organizational goals. So can you talk about why is that important? Number one, and probably as a follow-up, how should we really execute that in an organization?

Great question, Suresh. And, and, you know, one of the things that I've noticed, in speaking with sales executives is that they're so focused on the company goal. It makes sense. You're supposed to, right? But then, what would happen if we took it another route? We said, hey, for each rep, right, we all have personal goals that we want to accomplish, right? And that's the reason we are getting In sales, as you know, we get a base salary, right? And it's never sufficient and hopefully should never be sufficient. Okay. But based on that, I have other things that I want to accomplish in life. And so, those things are met or exceeded through our bonuses and through commissions. And so, that's probably what drives a salesperson. Okay. But the question is, do we spend time as leaders sitting with our team members and really getting personal with them and saying, hey, Suresh, I mean, what is it that you want to accomplish personally in the next 3 years, in the next 12 months, next 24 months, next 12 months? And if I sat with you and I understood that, First off, I'm building that trust. I'm building that relationship. And it could be building longevity within the organization because now, it tells me as a leader, you care about me.

Right.

So now, I understand, hey, Suresh, you told me within the next 36 months, you kind of want to buy a home. Right? Okay. You told me in the next 24 months, You probably need to upgrade your car because you've got family coming in and you need a bigger car. You told me the next 12 months, you know, you want to take the wife on vacation. That's important from, you know, a husband-wife relationship, right? And these, all these things equal X number of dollars.

Okay. Yeah.

And you're hoping, and you're hoping that through your sales and your bonuses and your commissions, You can accomplish this right now. I understand that. Now I go, Suresh, great. Now I understand that. All right, let's see how I can help you accomplish these. Because if you hit your numbers and you hit, you hit, you hit your bonuses and commissions, I can guarantee you you're going to hit your company targets.

Right, right, right, right.

Now I work with you as a leader. Right now, I'm working with you. I'm coaching you. I'm training you. Right? I'm helping you close deals. Right? I'm giving you coaching advice, training advice, etc. Right? To hit your numbers. And once that— once you hit your numbers, your corporate goals are met. Right? That's our belief and we proved it. Yeah. So now, how do you do this? How do you do this from a leader perspective? Right? There's a couple of things that you can do. Well, obviously, you meet with your teams on a quarterly basis. Right? So, every quarter, you're meeting with your teams. And it's not all about— it shouldn't be. It shouldn't all be about what's your quota target. Did you hit them or not?

Right, right.

It should be, okay, let's look at your personal and your target. Where are we on this one? Okay, there is that. There is also something that I like and I work with my teams on. And I say, hey, you know, let's create at the end of the year, beginning of the year, let's create a vision board. And a vision board are all the things that you said you wanted to accomplish. Right? Let's put them in a pictorial format.

Yeah.

So I want to get a house. I want to get a house. I get a little pictorial board, right? I put my house up. I put my data on it. And I put when. So 3 years, I want to get this. Okay, then I put my car that I want. I put when I want them. I put my vacation. I want it on this date. And whenever it is, I have a pictorial view of it and anything else that I have. And there are 8 things that when it comes to goal setting, that we look at— personal, financial, educational. Okay, we have those in a pictorial form. Once I set that up, we review those on the 6th month of the year. Okay.

Got it.

So, I'm doing quarterly reviews with you for business and personal. Every 6 months, I'm going to come back and say, hey, right, let's see your vision board. Where are we on it? That's a good leader. Okay, now he cares. Okay, I'm sharing my vision with you. You're going to help me. You're going to help me accomplish it. And as an individual, if I know that I've given you a personal goal, right, I'm going to strive for it. I don't want to fail, right? A good sale is going to go. I want to prove that I can take my wife on vacation. So, right, I don't want to fail. So, that's the reason for sharing those goals also. is if I have a goal and I don't share it with you, if I don't make them, it doesn't matter. Okay? So now, I'm sharing the goals with my team, with my members, with whoever it is, my family. And now, I'm motivated to hit those targets, those goals, those personal goals. Right? And so, those are some methodologies that we suggest that can help leaders in helping their salespeople. and their sales associates, sales executives manage their personal goals. Because when you hit personal goals, corporate goals get accomplished.

Right, right. So, Robin, I want to pick on something that you said, and which is very dear to me and for Sales Table, which is the collaboration between the sales management and the execution team, right? As much as it is a It should be a natural thing for anybody out there, but it is not, unfortunately, because what we see is every quarter over quarter, we sit through these painful review discussions and then we see everybody finger-pointing at each other. Oh, you didn't help me, or you didn't do. And then sometimes even sales leaders actually finger-point at external aspects of whatever is happening. But then the fact of the matter is, you didn't really achieve the goals, right? And which is basically to say, especially for us with SalesTable, what we believe in is instead of really kind of going to, yes, and the quota is very important for us that somebody has to achieve, but what are we doing to achieve the quota on a daily basis is the whole activity management.

Right.

Because as much as the output is very important, which is the quota attainment, but the inputs to the quota attainment is also important. And that's something that we are very passionate with SalesTable as to say, how do we really bring in this combination of the upskilling aspect that everybody has to go through on a daily basis with the entire activity management, right?

Yeah.

Without that, what happens is we go through the, end of the quarter and then we are looking back. I mean, think of this as a rearview mirror, but unfortunately it doesn't really matter what we realize, it's already done.

Yeah. Right.

And I think painfully so, a lot of reps sit through those discussions, a lot of management sit through those discussions, and it's fun for no one.

So, you know, that's a— so, it really comes down to what I call pipeline management.

Yeah, yeah.

And how as a leader am I evaluating a healthy pipeline? And what is that? What is that? What's a pipeline? What's a pipeline could look like, right? There are different types of pipelines we see, right? There's a pipeline with a lot of stuff at the top. But nothing in the middle or nothing at the bottom. Right?

Got it.

And then there's a pipeline with nothing on the top, a lot of stuff in the middle, nothing at the bottom. And then there's a healthy pipeline where you've got stuff at the top, stuff in the middle, and stuff at the bottom. Right? So, you know, we can analyze those pipelines. But then, then you look at your pipelines and you say, okay, You know, how do we break this down? In my world, right, I look at, I look at, and we categorize them differently in everybody's different worlds. In my world, it's, you know, we've got in your pipeline, you've got what I call elephants, you got deers, and you got rabbits. Okay.

I see.

So, so if you think about an elephant, it's, you know, a big deal that takes a while to close. The cycle, the sales cycle on that. could be 6 months to a year, right? Depending. Okay. Then, you got a deer. Sales cycle could be 3 to 6 months. Then, you got a rabbit. The sales cycle could be 1 to 3 months depending on everybody's environment. It varies, right? Now, if you look at your pipeline and you say, okay, in my pipeline as a sales guy, I'm going to put in a lot of elephants. Okay. Put a lot of elephants. So now, My funnel is 12 months in duration. If you think about it, right, right, right. And at the end of the year, if nothing closes, I'm dead.

Right.

I'm dead. And the VP is dead. Okay. Right. So we didn't— so, you know, we didn't— that's a weighted pipeline, right? We understand what that is, right? Then you look at, you know, then you look at the quarter. from a quarter perspective, right? When— what deals do I have in the pipeline and how weighted are these deals? And in other words, if I've got, you know, 5 deals at various stages, is that 10%, 20%, 40%, 50%? What does that weighted pipeline look like?

Right.

And if I, if I'm not— if I'm waiting until the end of the quarter to manage that, yes, those, those end-of-quarter reviews are going to be brutal. Okay?

Yeah.

And so I think, I think it's up to, as a good, you know, from a management perspective, is really understanding what those look like. And sitting with my teams, you know, whenever we have our sales meetings, either weekly or monthly, and saying, okay, where are we in the pipeline? Okay, how do we know this is going to close? What's the history behind it?

Right?

And that allows us to really define, you know, healthy pipelines from a, from a management perspective. Okay.

Yeah.

And the other, the other thing too is, is, is, you know, depending on the organization, right? If my quota is, is $2 million, right? What is the factor? What is the multiple factor that I should have in my pipeline at any one time? Okay. And, you know, some say it's 3x, some could be 4x, some could be 2x, whatever the factor is, We need to understand those from a management perspective as I'm coaching my sales guys.

Yeah, completely with you. It's one of those things, Robin. I mean, you talked about the pipeline and a lot of times the sales leaders look into the CRMs, whatever their favorite CRM is, and then they are like, oh, we have all these different stages and all is great, but then when you really look at the data, there are some deals that are the last contacted 120 days back or 300 days back and all that. That's exactly, I think, you were referring to. Yes, in an ideal scenario, you really want a funnel that is leading to closing of deals. But what happens is every state, however we define it in a way, Yes. I think that's really where things, for example, a lot of times things get all the way to demo and then after the demo nothing moves, for example, or everything is just sitting on the pipeline management side of it and then from pipeline nothing moves to the next qualification call. Everything, of course, has its own ways on how to detect and fix it.

Yeah.

But the idea really is, I think, based on the company and the stage. It's not exactly a pipeline, but it can take several forms of what it is, right?

It could, it could take several forms, uh, right? And, and, and the question is, when we look at the— if we, if we do a weighted pipeline, right, taking each deal and weight by different stages in the sales process, right, then we know what that looks like. If a lot of deals are in your— if there's a lot of deals at the top or very little deals in the top, right, that tells me my guys isn't prospecting enough, right, to put new deals in the top. If a lot of deals is in the middle, then he's got an issue with closing.

Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

So, a number of ways to analyze the pipeline, right, to get a healthy pipeline, right?

Absolutely. In general, Robin, when you coach your leaders, when people think about the pipeline management or the CRM review, unfortunately, many times they just outsource it to the RevOps teams and then say, oh, you know what, you go figure out and then come back. And with the analysis, which is fine, but what is the right way for sales leaders to actually do a pipeline review? I mean, I know it all depends, but then what's the frequency that you would suggest? And then what are those critical things that we need to look into when we think about the pipeline reviews?

Right. So We agree that every single organization has a different system, a different process, a different methodology for pipelines. So, if you agree on that, I'll give you my example of how we look at things, right? And how I use them, right? As an example. And it may sound pretty similar, familiar with other companies. Okay? But I use HubSpot as my CRM. And HubSpot is a Sandler— it's a common HubSpot CRM that we use across the Sandler network. Okay? So within HubSpot, we have our sales process built into the CRM. And in that, it has a weighted value by each step. Okay? So when I start off with a brand new prospect, I would put it into discovery call. So, a discovery call could have a weighted value of 10%. Okay, I could have, I could have another, another deal in the qualification stage at investment. And that could be at 50%. I could have another deal in presentation that's at 80%.

Right.

So, so as I look at, as I look at my CRM, final report. Now I say, okay, where's it— where's all my deals? Okay, what's my forecast looking like? When is it going to— who's going to close when? And that gives me a bottom line. Okay, most companies that I speak to have some type of process that they use in pipeline management. Okay, some of them not as stringent and not as clear as a well-defined sales process. Because everybody could be different. I have an organization currently, one of my largest clients, right? They have 3 buckets of revenue that they get. First bucket is RFPs, RFIs. You can't forecast that accurately, right? The second bucket they've got is current clients bringing in, giving them POs. They can tend to forecast that. And then the third bucket is new business development. Right? So, so they've got new— so now they could— they've got 3 buckets that are trying to forecast in. Well, you can't forecast accurately on RFPs, RFIs, but the rest 2 buckets you can forecast in. And their sales process allows them to, to do that from that perspective, right? So like I said, there's one, one area where, you know, 80% of their forecasting can be accurate based on the RFPs, okay? In my world, if I use the Sandler Sales Process and the system, my accuracy, my forecasting accuracy is pretty good.

Robin, as a follow-up to what you just said, many companies will initially want to start with, probably they don't have any process at all or methodology to really follow. For example, right now with Sales Table, I'm just going through the founder-led sales, right? You know, everything is really our vision and passion that comes out and all that. I'm sure at some point of time there is something that we probably need to adopt just to make sure our sales team falls in line.

Yeah.

But the idea really is, let's say, I know you and I spoke a lot about bringing up the right process for the right set of customers and the sales cycles. Can you talk a little bit about what does it really mean by looking at the customers, the sales process, and how their customer journey is going through? We need to have the right process to fit that and not the other way around.

Yes.

Because it doesn't really matter whatever process that we have if the customer journey doesn't really fit there, you know, that's a wrong way to define the process. But I know you have a lot of perspective on that.

Yeah, I think so. So, you know, at Sandler, we figured out that the customers— the customer journey has changed now, right? Technology has allowed the customer or the prospect to say, hey, I'm going to do research in what I want, right? Whatever products or services I'm looking for. I can now do research on it. Once I understand through research what I'm looking for, then I say, okay, where do I get it from? What does that look like? So I go out, I find my— I look for my products, right? And then I select my partner. Once I select my partner on who I want, Then the advocacy part of it starts there. Starts then, right? I get my presentation, select my partner, right? And then my then advocacy. The the the partner or the process or the or the seller. The seller world has to change also.

Okay.

The seller world now should align with where. the prospect is looking at. Okay, so the prospect comes to us now and say, hey Robin, I need ABC.

Okay?

Right. Versus me telling them what they look for, what they want. Prior, it was, hey Robin, here's what I'm looking for. What do you recommend? I think that's changing now because they know what it is now, right? In most parts. Okay, from there, my world Or my part— yeah, my world is now to say, okay, I understand what you're looking for. Let's make sure that it actually fits what we have, what we buy, and what we sell fits what you're looking for. So now, I understand that. And now, I go to my qualification stage, which is understanding what you're trying to solve, what the pain issues are, right? And whether or not my product solves those issues. Okay, so that's qualification pain. Then I go qualification investment. What is the investment that you're prepared to make, right, to solve these issues? I want to make sure they've got the investment that ties in with, you know, what my fees are for that.

Yeah.

And then I want to understand what the decision-making process is. Okay. And so, there is my qualification stage. And if in my qualification stage it doesn't line up, I eject out. In their world, if they're also qualifying me, right? And if it doesn't align with their qualification stage, they would eject me out too. Let's assume everything is aligned, right? Then we go to the presentation of the solution. Yeah, that's all.

Completely.

So that's the buyer's journey. And that's what we're seeing. And that's how companies, as an example, from Sandler perspective, is aligning, right, our process and our system to the buyer's journey.

Right, right, right. So that's a great point, which is to say, when a lot of younger companies or the companies that are trying to change their processes, sales process in a way, it's critical to look at what the buyer journey is looking like.

Yes.

And that's really the first one that everybody should be reviewing and trying to understand. And then follows the sales process And it's not the other way around.

Right, right. On top of that, here's the other thing that's changing. Okay, here's the other thing that's changing in the buyer journey. There's, there is no longer one decision maker. Right? There are now multiple, multiple folks involved in the decision-making process. And we've got to understand what that is and align our resources with their resources.

Okay.

When, right? So, you know, from a, you know, whatever it is, you need to have, if it's an HR, you need to have HR involved. If it's finance, you need to have your finance people involved with my finance people. You need to have your HR people involved with my HR people. You need to have your product management people aligned with your project management people. Okay? So, that's what we're seeing from a buyer journey. Who's your champions, right? We understand who the champions are, who are the players that's all involved in the decision-making process. That's what that looks like now.

Yeah, completely. That actually brings to a lot of frustration a lot of sales reps and AEs go through, right? Because they spend on a particular account for months and months and months, and then you realize that there is a new person that is getting added to every meeting. and then they are bringing in more people. And then initially you would have started the call with 4 people, and then at the end of 4 months or so, you have 12, 14 people that are sitting in the call. And unfortunately, everybody has their own perspective. But I think, you know, that's really very important in the large or enterprise deals or those kind of things where— right from the get-go. Of course, I mean, sometimes in a genuine way, I mean, you wouldn't really know until you actually start the process. But it's always prudent for somebody to actually research beforehand and see who are those people. And then there are also, I think, you know, ways to actually say, hey, let's say when you look into the product and then you feel happy about it, are there any other people that I need to kind of be talking to?

Yeah.

to get the buy-in, right?

Yeah. So who are the influencers? Who are the champions? Who are the decision makers? And we need to understand all of that. And if I've built enough rapport and trust with my prospects, that information is going to come out. But I've got to start with that rapport building, that trust, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's amazing. So I know, Robin, I think, you know, we've dug into a lot of details today. Probably the pipeline management in general is a very— and then the pipeline management and the quota management actually are very great topics. Probably we should do that sometime soon for sure. But as a final topic, I'm really thinking through— we went through all the blind spots and then the second one is all about the recruitment. The third one is all about the upskilling and coaching. And today we really talked about the entire vision and process orientation, collaboration between the sales leaders and the sales reps. And as probably as a final thought, Robin, I mean, what would you suggest to leaders who are really thinking through on this? Hey, you know what, you know, I have all these, you know, sales kickoff meetings that happened, you know, I have this big vision, and then really kind of, you know, bringing in the team together.

So let's look at it from a CEO perspective as a start. Okay. So the, you know, if you look at it as a CEO, if you look into, if you look, you know, look in the mirror, and you say, you know what, I feel like I'm working in the business, on an ongoing basis, and I can't leave. And if I leave this business, my company could go under. So I'm at risk. I'm at risk there. Okay. So if you're not sure where you are, and if you feel like I'm really working in the business and I need help here, as I mentioned to you, Suresh, we have a business survey tool that if everybody's interested, they can reach out to you. Reach out to me. I'll send them that and that will define for them where they are, whether they're at risk or they're average, they're well managed, or they're at excellence. That will give them the guidelines to figure out where they are. Then we can look at where does the blind spot apply to their business. That's one thing we can offer and anybody can get that from me. So, that's the CEO. On the sales side of the equation, well, that's a whole big kimono. Not all, you know, if you look at the number one, Dave Maxwell said the number one blind spot for him when he went out and met with business leaders in his years of experience was not having a sales process and a selling system. Number one. for him. Number 2 was not hiring and recruiting.

Yeah.

Those are the 2 major ones. Okay. So, you know, and most organizations that I speak to, believe it or not, if I ask them, what is your sales process? Or go ask your sales guys, what's their sales process? They're going to get 8 or 9 different sales processes, right? And so, if you have that, there's no way you can run an effective sales organization, right? Because the language is not common. Okay, you've got people doing different things, different times. It's gonna be hard to coach, train you guys.

Yeah.

You have systems and methodologies. Okay. So, you need to look into it. What's the playbook? We talked about playbooks. What is the playbook that you have? A new guy comes in. Does he know where to start? Or is it like, okay, see you. Go do your own thing. Go look at your Rolodex and go after guys. That's not a playbook.

Right, right, right, right.

When he fails, it's like, okay, next guy in. Or he leaves because it's frustrating. Okay. So again, I mean, there's so many things you can look at from a sales organization perspective. What does that look like? And I think it starts with the sales not having common, you know, a sales process and common sales language within the organization.

It's amazing. Yeah, yeah. Robin, again, I think thanks a lot for taking time. I know the last 4 episodes have been super insightful and every topic has been top of the mind for so many sales leaders that I'm sure we are all talking to. And with that, I would say thanks again, Robin, and have a great rest of the day. Until next time.

Yeah, Suresh, thanks again for having me, and I wish everybody best of luck in selling and in their organizations running properly. And like I said, if you're not sure where you are, just reach out to me.