Live with Restream, December 02

Hello everyone, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you're joining from, and welcome to Coffee Time with Sales Table. I'm Suresh Madhuvarsu, co-founder, and today I'm joined by none other than DJ Nair and John Simba. And today we are going to have a slightly different spin on to our webinar and the discussion, which is a lot of companies that we've seen in the past 2 years basically said they want to help reps really achieve greater targets and really help them do their best. But still, a lot of sales leaders can't provide a structured sales training program or onboarding program, and that really reflects on how sales reps achieve their targets and how the long-term success of the sales reps really gets impacted. And that's really the target and the focus today for us to discuss. And we basically said, hey, you know what, all of the reps that we have internally within Sales Table are using Sales Table, of course, to really get onboarded and trained. So today it's really about what's happening internally within Sales Table, how we are actually really thinking about the onboarding and training, and really hear from the people who actually went through that, right? And provide some insights on that. So without further ado, probably John, I'll start with you followed by DJ. Uh, can you provide a little bit of brief backgrounds about yourself and then what made you come into sales really?

Yeah, absolutely. So back when I graduated from college, this was back in 2006, I mean, it was right at the start there of the, the Great Recession. So I mean, I, I wasn't having too much luck there with the, the current job market situation, so I was like, I'm gonna start a business for myself. So for 10+ years, I ran a very successful luxury transportation business. So I kind of have that aspect of everything there, knowing things as a business owner, somebody that's trained a lot of employees and sales reps in the past, as well as afterwards, after I made a successful exit from my business after a decade in business there, I took on the role as an individual contributor. So I have some experience with a couple different industries, automotive and IT and software. So those were with organizations of 200+ sales reps. So I mean, very large organizations there. And yeah, now that I'm in the role here at SalesTable, I mean, it's really been an eye-opening experience. I mean, I've seen how it's been done in the past and yeah, I mean, been in sales for 17+ years and I feel like it's really definitely a different way of doing things and I really enjoy talking with people about what we do every day.

Thank you, John. DJ?

So it's an interesting story as to how I got into sales. I think I was in grade 4 when it was a school fete that I had. And wherein I was actually— so we had this fest in which everybody used to sell something for the school. So my mom made some aloo toast. That's what we call in India. So we used some aloo toast and I was ideally given an opportunity to put it out there and try to sell it. And I did make the sale. And that's where, you know, the whole sales acumen came into me. And that's where my mom was like, hey, I think you do have some kind of acumen. in sales. And for the past 6 to 7 years, I've been in the B2B SaaS ecosystem wherein it has been a wonderful journey because wherever I've worked with, it's always been— I've been directly contributing to their 0 to 1 growth or 1 to 10 growth, etc. And along with that, me being somebody who likes to have conversations with a lot of people out there, be it for work, be it non-work, be it trying to just be there for them. I believe that these traits kind of fit in a sales guy perfectly, and that's where I am.

That's amazing. So let's kind of, you know, talk through this, right? When any— a lot of times it's very hard for salespeople to actually use the product that they are selling. For example, pharma sales reps, it's not as though that they're actually using the drugs that they are selling, right? I mean, they have to know about the drug, the interaction between the drugs and everything, and they sell. But, uh, it's very rare that some of the opportunities like Sales Table, I feel strongly, where you actually get to use the product that you are actually selling. Right. So the question for both of you really is, I know before you are looking into SalesTable, the opportunity, and then why you want to join, there is definitely one perspective that you would've had from looking into some of the website, the testimonials, and the market in general is one perspective. But then once you join, I want to probably start with you, John, to say how did your perspective change when you started using the product and what was the gap that you had between, for example, what you imagined the sales table to be and then when you started using the sales table?

My previous experience with couple larger sales organizations. I mean, they had regular LMS type of systems there, very general information that the whole company used. So I mean, the training was, was for the most part the same for everybody with just a few twists for, for sales reps as far as some, maybe a few things here and there that, that might have catered to new sales reps when I was joining the company and things like that. So I mean, I think the really big thing with SalesTable, everything is completely tailored to helping a new sales rep with not only the onboarding but the training and everything else. So it just, it makes it so much easier when you're starting at a new organization to know exactly everything you need to know, not only about the company, but about who you're going to most likely be talking with, your ICP and the personas that we're going to be dealing with on a daily basis. It's not the same experience I had with other organizations that I was a part of. So I mean, kind of had to figure a lot of that information out on my own. So that was the real big first thing that I noticed is that a lot could be tailored specifically to helping sales reps with those interactions and before you even have that first conversation with a prospect.

That's amazing. Thank you, John. So that's a great point that you're mentioning, John, because at some point of time, yes, I mean, there are a lot of organizations where HR trains the new employees that are coming in. I mean, typically these tend to be very generic, very broad orientation. But irrespective of whether a sales rep or the middle management or sales executive, every company is unique on its own way on how they find customers, who their ICPC is, what has worked for them so far, and then what is going to work for them in the future. They are so different in a way, yet many assume that just because a sales rep was successful in the previous company, they would just come in, they bring their old Rolodex, and then they will start doing the same thing in this company as well. But that is so wrong, is what we have seen talking to almost hundreds of VP of Sales, especially just this year, by the way. And that's the perspective that we always try to provide to customers that we talk to. It's not as though that the VP of Sales or the CROs have no intention. They have the right intention to help the sales team, but sometimes from the busy life of execution, they just don't know what tools, what methodologies to really apply on what they are doing. So maybe DJ, can you throw the same light on how you felt the difference between the previous automations and just going to the Sales Table?

Got it. So ideally, as someone who has learned sales through hands-on experience and pattern recognition, having a structured approach like Sales Table actually kind of felt incredibly refreshing. Ideally, it kind of helped me provide actionable items and also like a clear guidance or a clear journey Kind of makes, especially because it's your initial days, it kind of is more managed and focused. That's what I felt. And along with that, because SalesTable introduced me to more like an analytical and strategic approach, I've kind of believed that it helped me prioritize my leads effectively, refine my pitch, and also have each interaction with a clear goal and structure in mind.

Gotcha. So that brings up a great point, right? Which is a lot of organizations, when we bring in sales reps, the expectation is, hey, you know what, this is the first week, we'll give you a bunch of videos, you go through the videos, and then I have a sales pitch, you go through the sales pitch. And then from next week, you go on, you start making the calls, you start sending the emails. And now it's It's for you to bring the leads or whatever you are responsible for, demand gen leads or closing the deals or whatever. The biggest challenge out there that happens, and I'm sure, you know, probably I would love to kind of get your thoughts on it as well, is you are basically leaving sales rep for a chance.

Mm-hmm.

What I mean by that is when reps go in and then they don't have the, proper and deeper product knowledge, integration knowledge, or the pricing knowledge, the value prop aspect of it, the challenges that the customer is going through, industry knowledge, then definitely what happens is you just go there. I mean, you try to talk to them, you wing it, and if it works, it works. Otherwise, hey, we'll see next time. Uh, but sometimes it works by pure chance and luck for sure. But what happens is, let's say in some of the deals that are half a million dollars, couple of million dollars, or based on the company, every deal is a very important deal. And what you are basically saying is you spent all the time nurturing this prospect to get them onto a demo or a call, and then you completely messed it up.

Correct.

That's really where a lot of leaders don't understand the value of providing the right onboarding and training. Maybe DJ, starting with you, I know just from the India standpoint of view, when you are talking to a lot of the sales leadership, what are they thinking through? What do they have in mind on especially the onboarding and sales?

Got it. So from my conversations with the Indian market, one thing was clear that A, everybody was inclined towards the training and the onboarding to be one major aspect that they'd like to change probably in this quarter or probably the next quarter. Ideally because there's a shift of sale happening in the Indian market. People are like, everybody is aware of the cold calling or cold emailing. Now what's happening is they want to fine-tune that as a skill, not just somebody who can just pick up a script and go through. So that was the one thing. The second thing is sales leaders are easily able to understand the pain point that we are trying to pitch because they themselves are having firsthand experience on what's happening, like be it tracking their performance, be it trying to see how the team has done, fared well in this quarter or not, etc. Etc. The sales leaders are able to like relate faster. And the final thing would be most of the organizations are trying to kind of decrease the ramp time. So usually what takes like about 6 to 8 months of onboarding or ramp time— I mean onboarding or training— it's kind of coming down to like 1 month, uh, or like 1 month 45 days, which kind of helps them accelerate their process and also see to it that there is lesser attrition of such kind of employees. So these were the 3 things that I've observed currently in the India market.

Gotcha. So especially when you talk about the onboarding and training, are you seeing that they have a formal training at this point of time and they're trying to go to, let's say, a hybrid structured approach? Or what is the as-is state today, for example?

So for today, I mean, right now how it is, is the market with the people whom I spoke to, they don't have a structure, they don't have a framework. framework. It's just certain PPTs that they've got, and these are just touching on the pain points or just the points that is needed for an entry-level, uh, person. But apart from that, you know, if they need to really have these sales ready, that kind of material or framework or structure is not available in any organization that I've been having a conversation with.

Gotcha. So what would be the area that— because it's one thing that sales leaders know that that is a problem, and it is a— at certain point of time they realize that, yes, you know, I need to work on this problem. I mean, are you having any early indications on when are they thinking about that I need to solve the problem now?

Got it. So when the team size is increasing and they are planning on scaling, that is where they majorly notice the problem. So when Initially what's happening is I think the first 10 sales team or sales rep that they've got are ideally just given all the instructions that works well for the organization so far. But now when it has to go to scale, there needs to be a proper structure. And that is where I feel when they're trying to scale, sales leaders are understanding that, okay, hey, now I can't do what I'm doing from the past because it worked so far and I've been able to sustain it. But moving forward, I need to have a proper framework and structure in place so that the team can benefit from it and they can also attain the quotas or whatever they're looking for.

Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, that makes sense. So John, I mean, what are you seeing from the set of the prospects that you are talking, for example, especially on the whole of the enablement and onboarding and training?

Yeah. And when it comes to content, there's some companies that have their own onboarding and training content, some that don't. But a real major theme right now is organization of that content and being able to deliver that and automate that for their reps. It just isn't something that they are able to do. So just going back from my past experience, again, very large sales organizations. I mean, if you had changes in any sales processes or if, you know, you had a new training that came out, you kind of, you know, it's not a very organized process to get organization that, you know, you might be 50, 100, 200 sales reps all on the same page for. And then to be able to access that after the fact, after the training's done, it's like, well, I don't remember this particular part. It's very important I know this before I I reach out to a customer because there was a major change here, then you have to kind of hunt and pack around the company intranet to recall that information. It's not— there's not a whole bunch of organization with the content there. So that's a major struggle and it's causing a large problem when it comes to efficiency. And I'm finding that's a major theme with a number of companies right now, anywhere from, you know, pharma, medical devices as well as software companies, there's a big push for making things a lot more efficient to help with the bottom line. And that's what I've heard from a lot of sales leaders right now.

Gotcha. So you said something that is very important, especially when we think about any modern organization, irrespective of whether it is tech or non-tech industry in general that we see. What's happening really is the pace of the tech product, the pricing, the product combinations, they are evolving rapidly. If that is the case, then if I just provide a training once in a year, twice in a year, that's not enough anymore, is number one. A recent customer of ours who we onboarded, the first time when I spoke to them, the challenge that they said was when they have the reps and then they keep using the same pricing that they had 6 months ago. Then the question would be, why not? Are you not providing training? Yes, we are providing training, but it is very difficult to make sure that all these 20, 30 people that they have, the reps, they actually absorb the training, right? If there is no way for you to know that, yes, I mean, the reps kind of absorb the training that you provided, whether it is about the product pricing, the sales process changes that we have, whatever that is, it's so difficult for the sales leadership to understand the impact that they're making as part of the training. And that's exactly where at SalesTable we made sure that whenever there is a training, make sure that through assessments and the role plays that this training is actually absorbed by the reps. So John, from that angle, how do you really think about SalesTable actually changed your daily behaviors? Because at the end of the day, we have these activity management that we really focus on because we have one simple philosophy. A lot of sales leaders focus on saying, hey, this is the targets that we have, this is the quarterly goals or yearly goals. But yes, those are very important for sure, But you also need to look into what are those inputs that you are providing to get to those targets. Which basically means what is the number of emails that you are sending, LinkedIn messages that you're sending? What is that volume? What is working? What is not working? I'd love to get your thoughts on how did Sales Table help you to have the right behaviors?

Right. And I think that's really definitely key coming from an individual contributor standpoint and somebody in the past that's coached sales reps as well. And I mean, when I go in every day and I see my productivity and I can see the numbers compared to the day before, I mean, it's— I want to do better than the day before. So I mean, it kind of adds that gamification effect where, you know, I want to continue to see myself do better and better. Yeah. When, you know, I might not have a really good, you know, couple of weeks. I mean, there's really no question on what's happening. I could see that on a daily basis. Well, you know, why did I not send as many emails as the day before? Let's take a look at my time management, which is, I mean, very important to make sure I'm efficient in carrying out things from a day-to-day basis. And I know with other organizations I've been at, I mean, it's like, Only after the month or after the quarter, it's like, well, we were behind on these targets. What happened? And then it's like, well, we didn't call as many people. When you have that live look-in day to day, I mean, there's absolutely no question on what metric we need to focus on to make sure that we're going to be productive every single day. Yeah.

The reason, one of the aspects that we realized, John, is a lot of even tech companies, by the way, they actually look into the spreadsheets in terms of the productivity, the number of emails, the LinkedIn messages and everything. When you think about it, it's not as though that spreadsheets are bad, but The biggest challenge that happens is everybody in this day and age should be having access to their own performance. When you go talk to your manager or any sales rep goes and talks to their management, they should have readily available performance metrics for themselves to say, here is what I've done this week, here is the progress from the last week or a month before. And that is all a right for the sales rep to have. And that's exactly what we provide using Sales Table. And DJ, from your point of view, I'd love to get your perspective on how those daily activities changed your perspective on sales.

Got it. I believe for somebody who is in sales, having a clear number that on a day-to-day basis, these are the certain activities that you need to do without fail, kind of helps them drive or at least break down their day accordingly. So that kind of helps. So for example, if there are— so every like touchpoint, be it LinkedIn, be it sales cold calling, be it emailing, every touchpoint has certain timeframe in which you're supposed to be either reaching out or responding, etc. Now having these numbers, what can happen is now you know that, okay, in India for one insight is like probably having cold calls after 1 PM. So that time what you can do is in the first morning of the day, you can do your prospecting, you can do your email reach out and respond to any emails that is needed. So that is something that has definitely helped me. And along with that, it's like a northern star for a sales guy. It's like a northern star. that you need to aim for that, okay, hey, today these are the numbers that I gotta hit no matter what. And by the end of the week or by the end of the month, this will turn out to be the metrics or the outcome that my efforts has brought in.

Gotcha. Yeah, that, that, uh, completely makes sense. So you're basically saying it's all related to the numbers and then having very clear defined numbers on a daily basis or weekly basis really helps to get through that whole angle.

Yes.

So while we are on the topic, one of the biggest challenges that happens with the new reps or even the existing reps is the ways in which we actually get trained on objection handling, right? There are some common objection handlings and there are some company-specific objection handling, right? For example, things like Hey, I don't have time now. Hey, come back to me after a month, or can you call me tomorrow, or I'm still looking at your contract internally. These are all very common objection handling versus on the company value prop side of it. Hey, I don't think your product solves my problem, or I'm currently using a competitor's product and you guys don't have certain features. All these things have to be trained for and by the sales rep. There is no structured approach, then again, what we are falling back to is we're assuming everybody will somehow learn it. That somehow might be detrimental for the revenue for many of the companies. In that sense. So from your point of view, DJ, how has been the whole of the sales role plays come together for you? And what did you learn? How did you learn? And I would like to get your perspective on the entire process that you went through.

Got it. So role plays was majorly important, especially the objection handling under role play was important because usually what happens is when we try to reach out, the objections are on a higher end because it's like either a cold email or a cold calling, right? But when I had been taking, like this was initially at the onboarding also, and then even during my time here, I saw when the onboarding aspect, sorry, the objection handling aspect has helped me in a way where I'm able to navigate the conversation in such a way that even a no is somehow turned into an opportunity, which kind of helps me continue the conversation by having a relationship. I'm not saying that that would help me close the deal, but at least build a relationship which would help me get in either a referral or, you know, a long-term prospect, maybe in the time of like 6 to 8 months of timeframe. And I feel roleplay has definitely helped me build that confidence and the navigation for any kind of objection handling, etc.

Gotcha. Thank you. John, you have any perspective on that?

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, role plays, I've always loved them as an individual contributor and somebody that's also coached and trained sales reps too. But I mean, the big thing has always been the kind of finding the time because I mean, you're taking 2 people, they're having to block out time on their calendars, things happen. So I mean, you have to reschedule and things like that. I mean, I like the aspect that it's something you can automate, do on your own time. And build that confidence, and you could do it. You could do it every single day, and you don't have to worry about it. It's going to take time out of two people's day, and it's just a really great way to practice to be able to have those interactions with with customers there. So I really feel like it was a huge benefit to me to be ready for those those first few interactions I had with with customers there. And I know there's a few areas, of course, that I'm stronger at, a few that I'm I'm not as good at. I could work on those ones I'm weaker. at anytime I want, uh, and I don't have to be, uh, you know, taking time out of somebody else's day, a sales leader's day, to be able to practice on my own time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, one of the biggest challenges that we realized as, uh, we started to speak with a lot of prospects, um, is it really takes for sales managers an average of 10 hours per week to support their team. And when I talk about the team, there are different ratios, but many of the sales managers say it is 1 to 6 is an industry average there, which basically means a sales manager is spending almost about, you know, 10 to 15 hours a week in supporting their reps. When we talk about the support, it is a variety of support, right? It is about the deals, it is about coaching, it is about the whole aspect of giving them the right inputs on the questions and all that. So when it comes to the role plays, the one of the biggest thing that we heard was it's really painful for the sales managers. Let's say if you have 5, or 6 reps and to find a time on both of the calendars and then really bring them together and have that role play done is number one, it's about the time. Number 2, it's also about how you are providing the feedback right on in a live session. Sometimes it really gets into a contentious behavior between the sales manager and the reps. Where, oh, you know what, you should have said something like this, or you should have said it in a different way, or you didn't define what I'm exactly supposed to do. So instead of all that, what we basically did was to take the complete subjectivity out of the role plays and then really automate it so that reps can finish the role plays whenever they have time. And then in a very objective manner, we know exactly what this role play is based on, and then you provide the whole ranking based on that and then go from there. That's really where a lot of our current customers actually appreciate the role plays and then how they are actually able to benefit as part of that. John, from your point of view, I want to really see from what are the couple of instances where just going through this training using Sales Table, let's say, helped you to overcome a prospect challenge or helped you close a deal. Right.

And I think having right at my fingertips just competitive intelligence and being able to access that at any particular time. I could have that open during my cold calls and things like that. I mean, that way I'm not having to worry about the, you know, 6 or 7 competitors in our space there. I mean, it's like I have all that and it doesn't take me, you know, a couple minutes to locate it in a company intranet is a really helpful situation. It's helped me on— I could count at least 3 scenarios that I can think of back to being on cold calls. So I mean, that's been a huge help right there.

That's amazing. Thank you. DJ?

Yeah, for me, I would say like there was a particular challenge, like it was a prospect who was laser focused on the costs, right? And though we were giving a lot of value, it kind of still didn't register in the organization as much as how much we were trying to provide. So that's when, you know, using simulations and also using the objection handling techniques, you know, which we picked up through the role plays and trainings, the practiced approach kind of helped the situation not go into a deadlock, you know. So I approached the diffusion ideally differently. So So initially I spoke about the concerns again, then later when they were still not budging, then I shared relevant data. And once that was all done, I kind of backed it up with success stories. So spoke about a couple of references and examples. And I believe that kind of helped me show them like the value that we are giving as in a long-term impact. And that kind of turned even the skepticism that they had into curiosity. And it kind of happened to be a deal.

That's amazing. Okay, um, so just to follow up on what you said, when you are talking to the sales leaders at this point of time, what are the features that you feel are the most valuable where you are able to associate your own, um, value when you are talking to sales leaders?

Got it. So initially it started off this way that we had reached out to co-founders, directors, etc. Now when it came to sales leaders, the pitch didn't have to be what the product is. The pitch had to be what the pain point is and how we are solving it. That kind of helped me kind of navigate easily through these sales leaders and sales leaders with respect to the features, the first thing that they notice is roleplay. Because like the previous conversation that we had, I mean, sorry, that John mentioned that these sales reps are not trying to look to see to it that their time is being spent on these trainings, etc. Rather than that, they would want to hit quotas. So that's how the sales leaders look at role plays first, then they come at trainings, and then finally they look at the performance metrics. these are the 3 features that they kind of help.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. John, do you have a perspective on that?

Right, yeah. And I think just with the fact that we can automate a lot of onboarding and training, I know that a lot of leaders I speak with, I mean, they're definitely frustrated it takes so long for their reps to take on that full quota. So just being able to get them quicker to that point, I mean, it's been anywhere from 30 to 50% quicker. I mean, that's definitely where we, we point to onboarding and, and our training, uh, aspects of SalesTable. It's been really helpful for, uh, our existing customers to, to really help with that, uh, that pain.

Yeah, absolutely. Um, thanks for this, uh, wonderful discussion. As a part of the last question for us today, so John, if you have to uh, talk to your friends and suggest what we are doing at SalesTable, what, what would you say? And then what, what would you, um, advise sales leaders on this?

Right. Yeah. And a lot of friends I have, they're, they're also in sales. So I mean, I'll usually ask them, well, how was your experience, uh, when you were going through training at, at your company you're at right now? And then, you know, they they tell me this and that. I mean, and usually, I mean, you hear some good, some bad, and it's like, well, what we do, we make it all good. I mean, we make it automate that from start to finish. It's easier for the rep, it's easier for the sales leaders. And I mean, and when I'm talking with sales leaders, I mean, that's what I try to let them know as well. I'm in the position as an individual contributor here. It makes my life easy. It's gonna make your life easier too. So I mean, it's not just one side that's gonna see the benefit. of what we're doing.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Uh, thanks for that. Uh, DJ?

Um, when it comes to like the last part, I mean, advice it would be, or a suggestion would be, ideally first things first, uh, lead by example. By that I mean to say that yes, our processes and systems or tools might not be everybody's cup of tea, but, uh, whoever is trying to implement it in the organization must lead by example. Apart from that, making coaching a priority is so important because salespeople thrive with the right guidance. That's something that I've noticed. And the last one would ideally be foster a culture of continuous learning. Like that's where the training and the recurring training also comes into picture. Like because the sales landscape is really evolving. There is no one-stop-fits-all. It's different every time, so you got to keep updating yourself. So I believe utilizing a platform to its fullest is something that can help these sales leaders out there.

Absolutely. That makes sense. Any closing thoughts from you, DJ or John?

John, do you have something?

I don't. I don't have anything now, but I mean, if anyone has questions, feel free to reach out to me. I'll be happy to help with anything I can.

Absolutely.

I would say, let's say— sorry, I would say let's make sales interesting. And I would say sales is not a job. Sales is a life skill. So let's everybody honor it. And I believe having a proper approach to it would definitely get us there.

Absolutely. Thank you, DJ, for that. So again, I think, you know, as a closing statement for us, it's very important as everybody is looking through December, as they are planning for the new year and how they want to scale their teams and the revenue. While of course the revenue targets and the top line is very, very important for the sales leaders to think through, But it's also very important for the sales leadership to lead by example, DJ, the way you said it, and which also means that keeping the right onboarding process in place, having the right support structure in terms of the training. One of the continuous things that we keep hearing from the sales leaders is the training is not a one and done, the coaching is not a one and done. It has to be a continuous process. for the entire sales teams, right? What that really means is you can't have people going behind the people to say, hey, you know, did you finish the training? You know, what help do you need and whatnot? But you need to really take advantage of the technology that is out there. There is so much of the AI that we are building in SalesTable to really help the sales leaders as well as the reps to really get on top of their game. That's really where you need to really think through on what is your strategy going forward in 2025 and think through on the whole of the onboarding, the upskilling strategy, as well as how you want to really make sure that you are providing the right help to your reps so that they are successful and the company is successful. With that, I would say happy holidays everyone and Hopefully we'll have one more webinar, uh, before the end of the year, but until then, thank you so much.

Thank you so much. Bye-bye.

Take care. Bye.