Unlocking the Potential of Your Underperforming Sales Team

Hello everyone. Welcome back again. This is Suresh Madhuvarsu from Sales Table, and here we are joined today by none other than Joe. Hey, good morning, Joe.

Good morning, Suresh.

Pretty good. Today again, as usual, we'll deep dive into one specific topic and the need of the hour looks like now is we are seeing a lot of sales leaders talking about their teams are underperforming or the teams are not able to meet the quota. And as such, I think there is Pavilion this morning released a paper where they're really talking about in 2020, about only 20% of the salespeople generated 80% of the revenue. That's number one, which is super alarming in general when we think about it, right? Which means The 80% of the other salespeople generated only 20% of the revenue. That's the first stat. The second one is really about saying sales teams in general, almost 60% of the sales teams didn't meet the quota for the entire 2023 in general. Again, we can't be talking about everything, but for the topic of the today is to say, how do we maximize our time, whether it is an SDR or AE, or let's say Mm-hmm. founder-led sales, or we have a player-coach kind of sales leader with the startups. How should we be really thinking about that initial research phase to find the right target of prospects? Can you throw some light on that?

Yeah. First of all, I appreciate those stats. The 80/20, that's literally Pareto's principle, right? It is the 80/20 rule. And so I'm not surprised by that statistic. It could be alarming and jarring. But it's not surprising. And I would be really curious because I found in my career in sales and in sales coaching, what I found is it's even a— it's more like 90/10. The top 10% produce 90%. So, I'd be curious what those— that 20% breakdown even in that. I bet it's heavily weighted towards those top of that group anyway. First of all, not surprised. That is Pareto's principle. So, what do you do about that? How do you get more people to perform at a higher level? And I think— so, we'll talk about the concept of the hour in a moment, which is like that client avatar— who it is, who it, who is it that you're serving and how do you identify them. But there's another principle called the 20/60/20 principle, and it, it's something like this: the top 20% of your team, it almost doesn't matter what you do with them, they're going to perform really well. They're top performers. The bottom 20%, it almost doesn't matter what you do with them, they're never going to perform. So let's just take those 2 segments out, just saying there's not really a whole lot I can do with it. These people are going to perform well. These people are never going to perform. The truth is, let these people go. Like, you release them back to the market, set them free. The question is, what do I do with this 60% that's in the middle? What can I do to influence them to matriculate up through that success ladder? And this topic that we're talking about, I think, is one way for a mediocre-performing salesperson to really accelerate their trajectory is by getting really clear on who they serve and how to target them. And I'll tell you about an experience that I had recently. One of my friends who I've known for years, we've done some work together. He focuses like on AI chatbots and stuff like that. It's really cool work that he's doing. But when we were talking, I tend to serve clients that are in like the $1 to $10 million, and we save them a bunch of money on taxes and we help them get their companies to perform better. So, the top end of my market is the bottom of his. And what he said is, I don't work with companies that are under $10 million. And for me, it was so refreshing to hear that. It's not like, oh, maybe this would fit, maybe this wouldn't. He is crystal clear. These are the people that we work with. If you're below that, God bless you, be on your way. Like, we're not here to serve you. And that's where I think a lot of salespeople get stuck is they're chasing down the wrong people. They haven't really clearly articulated this is who we serve and this is who we don't serve. So I think that's one thing for a mediocre salesperson right away to improve is know your customer avatar. Know without a shadow of a doubt, this is crystal clear who we serve. And the more clarity that they can provide on that, the more people will recognize that. Because when they say we serve this, whatever it might be, people go, oh, that's me. Like that, that's your— you custom built for me. And I think that's a really important element. The other benefit that this provides by having that kind of clarity, and this has to do less with demographics and more with psychographics, is what are the pain points of the people that you serve? The more broad, the more like dissolved or diluted those pain points are. When you get crystal clear on who you serve, You can know the specific pain points for that person really clear. And you gain jurisdiction to speak into somebody's world as a salesperson when you can articulate their pain points better than they can even articulate them themselves. And so you— it's if this person understands me at that level, they probably know the solution and can. So do you see what I'm saying? That's how you accelerate as a mediocre salesperson. How do I become part of that top 20%? Know with crystal clarity who you serve and what pain points they experience. Speak those to those people and then have the solution on the back end.

Yeah, that's a great point that we are talking about, which is at least 2 prospects that I talked last week, they mentioned this in very different situations, right? Hey, you know what, Suresh, we have a problem on how we train and coach our salespeople. Irrespective of whether somebody is senior or not, they're going into these calls unprepared, right? The good part is one of these companies has a brand value, so there is a lot of inbound. So I think—

Right.

They're not actually seeing that pain yet because they're like, okay, I mean, as a salesperson, I'm just going there because the customer is actually interested in this product. So I'm actually just talking to them directly about the product versus in the other company example, they're like, they're starting out and they don't have a huge brand value, which means you as a salesperson, when you get onto the call, you need to show them that you care about them is one, and to really understand well about their industry, their pain points, and then at least talk to them on a personal level, get that rapport, build that relationship. before you directly jump into the demo or whatever business that you need to do.

Right.

It was like for these sales leaders, it was really frustrating that their salespeople are actually not trying to understand the customer. So just to stay on the topic, let's say, Joe, what would be your advice to some of those salespeople where, hey, you know what, I know I need to research, but what should I be exactly researching? How do I know before I get to, for example, Joe, and then talk to him about the product and the challenges, what should I really do? How should I research?

I can just tell you how I like to research is through conversations. It's okay to be fresh at something. I, I, I think it was Patrick Lencioni talks about being hungry Humble and smart. Hungry, humble, and smart. So that humble aspect does not mean like weak or meek or anything like that. It just means be okay not having all the answers. People will appreciate that. So literally asking a question when you are in front of, you know, somebody of the caliber that you're looking to help, be okay asking them the question, hey, just out of curiosity, we always want to improve the products or services that we're providing. What do you feel like in your position are the biggest challenges that you face on a day-to-day basis? And then just let them talk. Oftentimes people are willing to talk about their problems, right? It's especially if they perceive that there could be a solution that's there. So I think asking people, obviously that's the number one best way to do it. Other approaches are like, go join groups. There's like on LinkedIn, for example, there's like people collect in different groups. So go find a group where that people congregate and see what they're posting about. Just observe the posts in that group. If you can be admitted to a group like that and just observe what is the conversation about? What's the water cooler?

Talk?

What is it when somebody says, like, you start noticing a theme of, oh, people are talking a lot about this? Just begin noticing that. And you can ask those questions of people too. So I think those are just general research. I think it's difficult if you— another way to do it, although I don't think it's as effective, is if you start talking to the pain points that you solve. So if I've got, this is our solution meets this pain point, and you start talking about that with people, you're going to get instant feedback whether that's hitting a nerve with them or not. If it's not actually solving a problem that they care about, then you need to pivot. And I had an experience with that early days with what we're doing now is we had a solution that we thought was phenomenal and hit a pain point that we believed was like a severe pain point. When we talked to people in the market, it was too far removed from their— like, they were focused on more important or more pressing problems immediately. Like, our pain point was living way back, way on the back burner. And so, we had to reframe what we're doing in order to hit actual pain points that they care about right now. So again, research is really easy to do. I don't like the concept— if you have the relationship with people to say, hey, can I buy you lunch? Or, can I grab a cup of coffee with you and pick your brain? If you have a close relationship with people, they're probably willing to do that. I crack up when people are like, oh, can I take you to lunch?

How much do you—

what lunch are you taking me to that you think is coming anywhere close to my hourly? So don't insult people in that way. But I will tell you, if you have relationships with people who are in that category and they're willing to give you that time, then just ask for their help in understanding those pain points. That's usually pretty meaningful to people too.

That's a great point. What you're saying is, I think, based on how much somebody, a prospect and whoever that is, Based on that, change your strategy. Don't apply the same strategy to everybody that is out there. And as an extension to, I think probably Joe, what you were saying, one of the things that we were looking at was there are during the funnel time, the first time when you are sending an email, of course, to somebody, your prospect, of course you are supposed to do some research and then you are making sure that whatever that you assume the pain that prospect is going through and then the solution that you are bringing in. probably match. That's why, I mean, you are sending that email even in the first place, right? But then even before that, one of the aspects that, you know, we always really think through is at a very minimum, let's say if it is an ABC Co., go onto the internet, do a Google search, see what they're doing, what products do they have, what solutions do they have. That's the first part of it, right?

Which, by the way, People aren't even coming close to maximizing that. There's so much free data out there. They're literally telling you, here's who we are. This is what we— social media platforms filled with this. Absolutely.

Exactly. That always, I feel, is the number one. Almost everybody these days have a website. I will be super surprised that you are actually working with a company that doesn't have that, right? And have a website. So number one, go research their website. Probably 2, 3 minutes max, right? That's really all it is. And then go on to the LinkedIn, really see what they are posting, new products that they would've introduced or new colleagues that they would've, you know, onboarded recently. And whichever department that you are selling into, for example, I'm sure they all have some or the other new colleagues that they would've brought in and all that. So Make sure that you know that.

Mm-hmm.

The third one, the person that you are sending this email, I think they, they, I'm sure they are like an expert in something. They have a great LinkedIn profile. Make sure you look into what their previous experience is. Are there any commonalities, similarities that we have? Because at the end of the day, yes, business is business. I think we want to sell solutions, products, and then take some pain away from these customers, but at the very basic level, we are interacting as 2 human beings.

Yes.

Make sure you know those people as they are before doing anything else.

At every level. And this comes down even to institutional decisions. There is a human being who's ultimately gonna be making a decision, and you always can connect emotionally with a human being. So I, I think that element is not to be missed. Exactly what you just said. Remember, you are talking to a human on the other side. Don't remain superficial. You've got to dig down to the emotional rationale or the emotional reasons why, you know, why they're connecting. And most people, most salespeople are very uncomfortable living in that emotional space. People make decisions emotionally and justify them logically. Think about that statement. They make the decision emotionally, then they justify it logically. Most salespeople live in logic. They just live in It's— I call it the beep bop boop, right? They just live in like the technical, here's the features and the benefits and all that kind of stuff. If you don't dig down to the emotional reason behind this, you're missing where the decision is made. So I think that's a, I think that's a really big element not to be missed. The other thing, Suresh, not to be missed, we live in, we live in a growing age of AI and ChatGPT is a very powerful resource. You could literally— and it knows a lot about a lot of things. It may not be able to delve into the emotional rationale yet, although I understand GPT-5 is gonna have some emotive elements in it. But you could put in the category of the type of person that you're working with or your prospect and ask GPT, what do you think the biggest issues are that they're dealing with? It will come up with a list of 10 things in the— so you can even use AI to help you populate some of this if you're struggling coming up with that on your own. Allow the power of AI and machine learning to give you some of that too.

Joe, thanks for highlighting that, right? As much as I think we're all in the age of AI, sometimes it's really the question of the habit. We are like, oh, you know what? I know how to write. I'm great at writing emails, so let me do my own thing. That's great, but at the same time, we don't have to do that again and again where we have the great tools like ChatGPT or Claude or Bard, whatever you want to use. At the end of the day, you just take your nice draft, put it over there and see how and what they talk about from the AI standpoint of view, and then redo the way you need. But I think what happens is a lot of us don't get into that habit of using tools, and which means we are spending half an hour, 45 minutes. Again, honestly, it's not very uncommon where you talk to some people and say, Oh yeah, I'm spending this last half an hour in writing this email to my prospect. And I'm like, why?

Exactly.

That's the—

that is, and I think that's the thing. And I know a lot of people have. So I probably use GPT on a daily basis. There's probably not a single day that goes by that I haven't used it for something. We do a lot of research with GPT. It's a very powerful research tool. And so you— and I heard somebody say this early on, especially with ChatGPT, they said, Move from being a creator to an editor. And I thought, that's a really good way to look at that. Now, I know a lot of people have had bad experiences with AI because it produces very AI-like responses. And so they just go, ah, that stuff doesn't work. First of all, it's advancing very quickly. So the quality of the output based on minimal input has gotten much better over the last, you know, 6 months or a year, certainly. But the other thing to keep in mind is the quality of the output is highly dependent on the quality of the input. So you as a human being need to learn how to interface with these tools in order to maximize their potential. And I heard somebody say this the other day, and I thought this is a really powerful statement. Ultimately, I think AI will replace basically everything that we're doing as humans. Ultimately, I think we'll get there. It's not there yet. And in the foreseeable future, we still have an advantage as a human. What they said, what this person said is, AI will not replace humans, but humans with AI will replace humans without AI.

Exactly.

And I think that's, I think that's a really important part. Again, for people who are part of SalesTable.ai community, you are already beginning to harness the power of this. So just continue that journey.

Exactly. Exactly. So as part of our discussion, I wanted to touch base these stats. If you see them, Joe, this is super interesting, right? This is Pavilion just released these benchmarks. But what is interesting for me is look at this, 69% of the reps missed the quota.

Wow.

2023. And then the shocking part for me is this, only 17% of the reps generated 81% of the revenue. When we see some of these stats, I think some of the sales leaders might be, oh, you know what? You know, I'm doing fine. This doesn't apply to me, for example. But at the same time, this year, and then I'm sure combined with the performance of the last year, there is a lot for the sales teams to optimize, Joe, because it's very easy to say, oh, I'm actually hitting my quota, or at least to 70% of what targets I put out there. But they often miss the 60% that you talked about, Joe, that could do something.

Yes.

So if there are sales leaders who is really looking at that stat as to say, okay, how do I improve these 60% of my salespeople that I have so that they can actually contribute to the revenue, which means You not only hit the quota, but you are exceeding the quota because if the other 60% are also at least bringing in 50% more revenue, then we are actually exceeding the quota.

In, in total, right? In aggregate. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So how should sales leaders be thinking about these stats and then how should they be really thinking about what should we be doing to these 60% of the sales reps that we have that are probably underperforming but can perform really well if we help them out?

Yeah. So I think the first thing to look at is, again, that bottom 20%. And you know who that bottom 20% is. They don't respond to coaching. They don't like accountability. They're terrible at putting that— they just don't follow the system. Flat out, let them go. You are not happy with their performance. I promise you, as a salesperson, if they're not closing deals, They are not happy. So everybody is miserable in the process and it's just costing your company runway or monthly spend. Get rid of those people. There's not gonna be a pathway for them to succeed. So that's the first thing. As a sales leader, you sometimes need to make that difficult decision of, I've gotta let this person go, reintroduce them to the marketplace. It's good for you and it's good for them. Now, the ones that you can do something about, you've used this term so much, Suresh, the upskilling. How do I upskill these people? So one of the like core fundamentals that I believe is role-playing and what I call— you've heard me talk about this before— real playing. How do we create scenarios where they actually get repetitions in a safe environment where you can observe them and actually provide feedback? So if you're not doing that at minimum on a weekly basis, you're missing the boat. Like there's opportunities for improvement that they could make immediately. So make sure that they're on a regular cadence of doing that. Or by the way, if kind of what you were talking about earlier, if there's a lot of inflow of leads, They're actually getting real-world experience. You need to be listening to those sales calls first. They have to be recorded. You've got to get those things recorded, and then you've got to spend time, invest time in listening through those and provide valuable feedback to them in that. I'm sure we can do more training down the road on what to listen for and how to improve that. The bottom line, I'll just tell you this, most of them are living in Logicville up here. They're not diving into the emotional reasons why. So that's the first coaching that I always do is dive down into the emotional reasons why. But I think the other thing is, Also pay attention to are there other areas where they are more skilled where you can divert them? Maybe they're failing in this sector, but if you move them over here, they'll succeed. So rather than do the same thing over and over, we literally just made this transition with one of our salespeople who was just not excited about the position that he was in or what he was selling. We shifted him and Suresh, it was literally within days there was a turnaround of activity and results. So sometimes you might look at how do I redeploy this person where I can maximize what they're doing.

Absolutely. I think we've come to a great point at this time, Joe. I think we've dug into a lot of topics, but we will, we'll keep discussing more of the pointed topics and really appreciate your insights.

Absolutely. Thanks, Suresh.

Yeah, thank you.