Building a Relationship that Lasts with Newsletters

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One common thread that a lot of people have is this apprehension they're afraid of selling, right? Like they're like oh, I don't want a lot of people to unsubscribe. I don't want people to mark me as a spammer, and I don't want to come off salesy and like all these things. And I always ask them, all right, would you have this email list if you didn't have business? Like, is it your friends? Are you emailing your friends? And I say that just to kind of like, kick in the door, so to speak. But then I say, but also, they came onto your list for a problem, a challenge, a struggle to get to tomorrow in their world. Like, they want your thing. And so what I'm a fan of is selling early.

This is the launch your business podcast. Because we know starting a business is challenging, but it doesn't have to be confusing. Each week we'll give you the tactical advice and the necessary tools to scale your business without feeling burnt out.

Terry.

I'm Terry Rice, business development consultant and staff writer here at Entrepreneur Magazine. Let's dive in. Jason, how's it going today?

Great. I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, yeah, same here. And I've known you for a while, but I just started seeing you appear on LinkedIn more often, and I've just loved your content. I was like, this guy's putting out really good content that actually helps people make money instead of you just, like, flexing and saying a bunch of platitudes. So this. Thank you for that because I think that's what our listeners want is just like, nuts and bolts tactics that are actually going to work as opposed to someone trying to go viral every time they post. So. So I appreciate that.

Yeah, no, I appreciate you saying so because I mean that that's who I am. I, like, try to, you know, I don't. I'm not a social media person to start with. Like, I don't really, you know, scroll all day long. That's not my thing either. But, like, if somebody's time and attention finds their way onto my post, I want it to be able to, you know, be actionable for them in some way, whether it's today or tomorrow. You know, I don't, you know, fluffing stuff for me is not my. My style.

Oh, yeah, I dig it. And last time I saw you, we were literally on an airplane together. You were in the same row as me, actually. So let's try this. Let's pretend you just met someone on an airplane. How would you introduce yourself? And that way our audience will know who the heck you are as well.

Absolutely.

Yeah. My name's Jason. I own a company called Nurturekit, who specializes in email marketing and automation, specifically around behavioral marketing, which is really just fancy terms for creating a good experience for your email subscribers so that they engage with you and buy from you.

Why do you think other entrepreneurs should have a newsletter? Like, what's, what's the advantage?

The advantage is it's your only asset to your audience that you have.

Right.

So like, you know, we're talking about LinkedIn, we're talking about Twitter. I mean those things change. I mean, Twitter is now X. And like for me, I've been on Twitter since 2008, long time. And just based on what it is today versus a year ago, it's very different. Like, you know, you don't have the reach that you once had. You know, people have left for various different reasons. You know, it's just, it's different.

Right.

So my following on Twitter, can I get access to them all the time, anytime I want? No.

Right.

So if I have a newsletter, if I have an email list, those are people that I can communicate because they've given me permission to do so.

Right.

And so by giving me their name, their email address, I can send them out an email six days a week like I do. And you know, I really just try to create a good experience for those people. Like you were saying, like, you know, long emails versus short emails. Like for me, I email six days a week and my constraint is less than a 2 minute, 3 minute read time because nobody has all this time in the the world yet. I also know that not everyone wants to have six news, you know, emails from me every single week. So I allow them to dial it back to the Saturday email, which is a longer email.

Right.

But you know, I just always to create that better experience and to create that relationship because that's really what email does for you, is that that's when people start to really trust you and understand who you are and how you can help them. And the newsletter, email lists, those things grow with you and your business. They add, they're an asset to your business and not a liability because you own that.

Right?

Like, there's no algorithm change. There's nothing that's going to, you know, sell off, you know, and take your list with you, like X or Twitter or LinkedIn or whatever. So for me, email has always been where I centralize all of my content out into the, into my subscribership.

And I believe email is the oldest form of digital marketing. I can't remember the exact case study, but it was like, like in the early 90s, this person sent one email to their list that had like a 90% open rate and they made a bunch of money because people weren't used to being sold to, through, through email. And your point about just how platforms change, I mean, I was at Facebook when the organic reach just declined for pages. People used to reach 40% of their audience and went down to like 4. And they were obviously upset. But I think that was a wake up call for creators and brands to realize, hey, we have to build our email list. It's not just enough to have a bunch of followers on Twitter or X or, you know, whatever platform because you don't own those relationships. Right? That's the most important thing. You want to actually own the relationships because if someone's on your email list, you can reach out to them whenever. If they're following you on social media, you have to hope they see your content and hope they're on the platform the day you post it. Otherwise the algorithm is going to punish you. So it, it makes sense. And to your, your last point about taking your audience with you as you, as you grow. Even when I first started my list, I was a digital marketing expert. That's what I talked about. And then X years later I was like, like, look, guys, I don't want to do this anymore. I want to focus more on biz dev for entrepreneurs. If you don't want to go on this journey, I understand you probably came on wanting digital marketing information, so you should probably unsubscribe. And I just said it just like that. And I only lost a few hundred people when that happened. And even now I'm going through another transformation where I'm focusing a lot on performance coaching. So helping people just be the best version of themselves, overcome setbacks, create opportunities. So you're gonna see that reflected in my content as well. But it's interesting because the response rate, the replies I've been getting from my newsletter with that content is actually higher than I was getting before. So it's great to have that validation in place as well.

Yeah, I mean, I did something similar too. I, you know, I grew up in my career as a developer and when I shifted away from that more towards email marketing and automation side of things, I also had a. My email list was really just helping other freelancers, developers and designers specifically. And when I said, hey, I'm shifting away from that business because my email list at the time, you know, it was, it was small. Ish.

Right?

You know, it was like a thousand, two thousand people. I basically did the same thing that you did. I Said, look, I'm not gonna be, I don't, I'm not running a business anymore. I'm going to be doing this thing and if you'd want to come for the ride, great. If you don't, here's the unsubscribe link, right. And it is shocking though to see that, oh, not many people clicked it. And even though before I pressed send I was like, okay, I'm going to just tank the whole list. Everybody's going to bail. But yeah, I mean, people, that's the thing, right? You're building that relationship with someone on your email list and so you know, people are there for you. And if what you talk about is in any sort of realm of why they signed up for you in the first place, they're going to carry through, they're going to go along with you for the ride.

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So you mentioned earlier that you write six newsletters per week and I want to focus on how you do that because we covered on why it's so important. Right. But a lot of our listeners are thinking okay, sweet, but how do I actually do that consistently? So how do you write six newsletters per week?

Yeah, so I try to keep it more storytelling. I think the term newsletter is almost become a buzzword, to be honest. Um, you know, I've been writing email since I would say 2016, 2017 to my list, and it's an email every day, and it's storytelling, right? And so like I said, I. I try to keep it two to three minutes max read time. So the first part of mine is really just a relatable story. So I have two young boys home. Both my wife and I work from home. You know, a lot of people can relate to, you know, some of the. The nuance of family life and things of that nature. So I usually try to bring that into the every email so that then there's a transition into a lesson learned or a tactic or strategy or even just a story about what I'm working on so that it makes it more memorable. Because, you know, I could say a lot of facts about open rates and click rates and all these things, but stats don't retain stories retain in the human brain. So, you know, if I could relate to like a entire living room covered in toys because, you know, because of boys, right? Like toys everywhere. And relate that to how to prune your list of cold subscribers. I've gotten many replies from people saying, hey, I remember you sent an email a while back about a lot of stuff all over the floor. Like, what was that lesson about the cold subscriber? Can you send me that link again? So it was like, those things stick. And so I try to always, you know, make it relatable to the human condition, so to speak.

Well, as a parent with four kids, including two boys who are slobs, I can relate to that because that's my life. And, and I like the way that you're making it an integration into your life as opposed to an interruption, because stories are unfolding around us all the time, right? But if you're mindful and lock in and pay attention, you can turn that story into a lesson which can benefit your audience. And beyond that, you and I are both speakers, right? We deliver keynotes and workshops. So the way that you build your brand as a speaker is by expressing your experiences. So if you're just talking about expertise the whole time, nuts and bolts, and not any stories about yourself, you're not building your personal brand or your character brand enough to really become a successful speaker. So for anyone out there who wants to create a newsletter in their kind of stuck on what to do, Jason just gave you some really great ideas just now. And also realize that it's your only unique differentiator is Your stories, your experiences that you're expressing this way. But, Jason, let's get to that part, because I know you have this guide or this training program that teaches people how to monetize their list. I think within 30 days or 90 days, I can't remember. But do you mind just bullet pointing out those steps for us? And I'll interject sparingly so you can keep flowing here, but I might have some questions as you're going through it.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I'm look, you know, I coach online business owners, course creators, coaches, and I work, I implement for them, right, Both sides of the thing. And the one common thread that a lot of people have is this apprehension they're afraid of selling, right? Like, they're like, oh, I don't want a lot of people to unsubscribe. I don't want people to mark me as a spammer. And I want to come off salesy and like, all these things. And I always ask them, all right, would you have this email list if you didn't have business?

Right?

Like, is it your friends? Are you emailing your friends? And I say, you know, I say that and just to them, just to kind of like, kick in the door, so to speak. I mean, I'm, you know, we're from New York, so I'm pretty blunt with a lot of. I'm just like, boom, right? But then I say, but also, they came onto your list for a problem, a challenge, a struggle to get to tomorrow in their world. Like, they want your thing. And so what I'm a fan of is selling early. So when somebody comes onto your list and I have this blueprint and this training, which you can go ahead and get for free at NurtureKit coast, slash launch, and you can go ahead. And it really walks you through. When somebody comes on your list to go through a proper welcome sequence, introduce yourself, set expectations in their world about when you're gonna show up and things of that nature, but then sell them on your thing. Like, transition them from a welcome sequence into a sales sequence, a proper sales sequence, because you're there to sell, right? And whatever you're doing at the top of the funnel, whether it's organic, whether it's paid ads, whether it's a webinar, whether it's live trainings, whatever the case is, that puts a lot of cost, whether that's time or money or both. In most cases, you want to be able to understand which. Which lever is working as fast as possible once they come onto your list. So put them through. A proper sales sequence does two things. One, you're going to make sales, I promise you. Two, those that don't buy, at least now have the seed planted in their brain that you do have something to offer them when the time is right. And so when you start talking about it, down funnel your weekly newsletters, promotions, things like that, it's not coming out of the blue because they've seen it already, right? And so they're not. My experience, from the millions upon millions of subscribers, I've seen people go through these two sequences. You're not mass unsubscribing people like it's. You're. You're there to help them solve a problem. They opt into your free lead magnet. And then the paid solution that you're giving them should be the next step for them. And if it's not, then that's something that you got to work out, but it should be the next step and make the logical step for them, and it creates that better experience and that better relationship for them.

Let's. Let's walk through what my opening sequence looks like and just tell me. Messing up because I want to make more money. Okay, so one of my lead magnets is this PDF that helps you get unstuck. It helps you identify blind spots and opportunities within your business. And if you're listening, you can go to TerryRice Co money to find that. But in the initial email after they get the PDF, I say, hey, by the way, here's this thing, and expect to receive this other information from me. I'll teach you how to price better, how to get more clients, how to do xyz. So I'm just setting up the future they can expect in other newsletters that are going out to my list. And at the end it says, and hey, by the way, if you want some extra help with this stuff, here are three ways I can help you. Boom, boom, boom. Lastly, there's a call to action to listen to this podcast, which some of you might have listened to, and that's why you're here, as well as to follow me on social. So just from that initial email, where am I messing up? Help me out here.

I feel like there's a lot in that email. You could probably break up each of that email into two or three, maybe even four emails as a welcome sequence. What I typically find is that a lot of people in their welcome sequence give a lot up front. And this is a full sequence.

So.

The subscriber doesn't want to drink from a firehose. Like, they just opted into something they might, you know, like in this case, they came through the podcast. They opted in. Great. I want to learn more about what Terry's all about and, and hear some of the other things that I can learn from him. Well, which you're, you're doing, but what you want to do is you want to craft them into the thing that you want to actually have them buy.

Right.

And so you know what I typically do, like, my bespoke clients that I work with, you know, I've worked with Pat Flynn and his team and Justin Welsh and some of these other folks, they don't come through my newsletter.

Right.

Those are, you know, they come through referrals and other means. But people that come through my newsletter, I want to be a coach for them through email marketing so that they can scale their business and that they can design their business around the life that they want to live. That's ultimately what I want to do. So, yes, I could talk about, find me on LinkedIn, find me on Twitter. You know, I have a YouTube channel. I have all of these other things where you can find me, but I don't really mention those things right up front. Like, I kind of take them down the path of like, hey, you came on this way because looks like you are starting to grow your list. So what are you struggling with growing your list? And I take them down that, that road. Or you have a big list and you're looking to automate a little bit. Okay, so I'll want to take you down that road. So I try to figure out as soon as possible what their intent is with me, what do they want to learn as fast as possible. And then later the other things will. Will naturally flow in YouTube channel or LinkedIn or anything of that nature. So I, I would think about, like, maybe, you know, depending on how lengthy that email is. I mean, not to kind of piggyback off of what that guy said, but if it is long and there's a lot in there, chop it, chop it up, send it over the course of a couple days. And what that does from you as a business owner perspective is, is it actually if these are people that are going to be most engaged with you than they'll ever be once they opt in. So if you can deliver something across, like two or three days, as soon as somebody opts in, that helps you from a technical perspective for deliverability. Showing up in an inbox creates that personal brand. They start to see your name popping in their inbox. It does a Lot of, you know, affinity. It gives you a lot of affinity with them. So I would consider doing that.

All right, well, everybody sign up for my list again and you'll see how that goes. But I appreciate that.

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Call for details. Let's. Let's go deeper into the money conversation and we'll do it one of two ways. Do you mind sharing how you make money from your list? Or we can even say broadly what are some uncommon ways or maybe uncanny ways that people can make money from their list?

Yeah, I mean, I make my. And if, you know, people are listening to this and you're on my list, I'm sorry, but I am a notorious experimenter. I try different things. And I want to give you a hat tip because you did a promotion a while back around your birthday, right? And you did this unique way of incorporating your birthday with the products that you have and an offer. And I was like, oh, that's so smart. Because I always try to do something for my birthday, too. My birthday is in September. And I was like, I came up like, early September. I was like, okay, well, I want to. I could do this, this and this. But it was like three different offers. And I was like, all right, that's. That's not really good. Like, I don't want to do three different products, three different offers, that's just too much work. And I always just do like a kind of like quick 24 hour flash sale kind of thing on my birthday. Then I saw your email and I'm like, oh, that's smart. I like that, I like that. And so I kind of twisted it a little bit to, you know, to my, my style, my voice and all that kind of stuff. But I thought it was super smart because it was just, hey, giving back to somebody to the list if it's something that they need. Like I sell digital courses, I sell coaching, I sell, you know, one hour paid consulting, those kind of things. And if somebody is on my list and they're engaged enough where they're checking their email every day, they benefit from a 24 hour flash sale.

Right.

And at, it catches people at different stages. It allowed me to deploy it quick, right? So that I was like, okay, that's perfect. You know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take, I'm gonna. Artists steal, right? Like I get to take Terry's great idea. I'm going to put my spin on it and do the same thing for a one day thing.

Now.

Yes, I have the elaborate campaigns built out. I'm an automation expert. So there's a lot of behavioral type stuff, especially in the middle of the funnel. Like if somebody clicks on a certain kind of link sales page or something like that a couple of times over a given period of time, they're going to get pulled into an automatic sequence that then kind of handholds them to the buying decision. Because I know that they've raised their hand, they're interested. I'm not obviously on the phone with them, so I can't answer any questions, but I want to open that line of communication and I do that through a sequence. So there's definitely, hey, Jason, I want.

To, I want to jump in more because I want to make sure everyone gets the brilliance that you're bringing up right now. So essentially, let's pretend I'm selling. Well, I do sell what are called Business Velocity Labs. That's a one day session where you and I sit down and we make your life better. We'll say that, right? So I can tell within my tool convert kit who is clicking on that link even if they don't go ahead and convert. Right. If they don't go ahead and book a call to learn more about it. So what you're saying is, hey Terry, an idea is if you notice someone's clicked on that link three times or more. They're clearly interested in this business Velocity Lab. You should set up a different sequence just for them, where you're talking about the benefits, the outcomes, some testimonials, and then offer a chance for them to book a call. Is that more or less what you're saying?

Yes, except the content is deeper because now you've caught them in the spot, you know exactly what they're looking at. You know that they have looked at it several times. And so what you want to kind of do is show up as like, that helpful salesperson. Like, you might not want to do testimonials like that they've seen on the sales page, maybe testimonials that are kind of like in the back of the Rolodex kind of thing that might be more relatable to them, like, if you know why they're hesitant, you know, that kind of thing. And also bring more, like, emotion into the emails. Like, try to meet them where they are. Like, if you understand their apprehension, hey, it's too expensive, or I don't have time, or, you know, your calendar doesn't line up with mine, you know, that kind of thing. Then an email goes out just addressing one of those things, and you send it out over a couple of days and then it opens that communication. And the thing is, is don't be creepy about it. Like it's a shopping cart abandonment campaign in our world, right? But don't show up and like, you know, be aloof about it. Like I put it right there. My first sentence is like, hey, look, I know you've looked at this. My system has told me so. So I'm just showing up in your inbox to help you over that hurdle. If, if you have any questions, love it.

And one other thing in regards to monetization, that word is so hard for me to say. Monetization that our audience should be aware of is this. You don't have to just sell your products to your list. So that, that Velocity Lab I talked about, it ain't cheap, right? So if that's the only offer I had and I'm waiting for someone to, you know, purchase it, I'd be waiting a long time. But if I know there are tangential things my audience might want, for example, like a selfie stick or some kind of program I use to edit my, my videos, I can say, hey, everyone, you know, here's this video I made, by the way, if you want to make your own like this, click here to buy this program. And if I'm an affiliate for that program, I make money. So on my end, that's how I make money through my list as well as my social media content. It's not always selling my stuff. It could be as an affiliate or as a partner for other brands. So just keep that in mind too for everyone listening. It doesn't have to be only your stuff. And Jason, I would argue it's probably better to rotate it that way. It's not like the same thing every newsletter. Buy this thing, Buy this thing. Still don't want it. Please buy this thing. You know what I mean? It's like just change it up a little bit.

Yeah.

To make it more interesting.

Yeah. I mean, I love that you brought that up because that is one of the things that especially someone who's just starting out is like, okay, well I don't have a product yet, so I know I want to build my list, but what do I sell? Like how do I make money off of this? It's just being helpful, really. Like connecting people, connecting your audience with solutions. That's it. Whether it's yours or somebody else's affiliates is a great one. You know, for me, I do email marketing and automation. I don't write emails like I do the marketing side, the strategy side, the automation side. If my audience isn't writing emails, there's not much I can do for them.

Right.

And so right through my welcome sequence, I try to suss out who they are. And if they're not writing emails regularly, then I actually put them through a sequence of a course that teaches them how to write emails ad infinitum.

Right.

I mean, I took the course, so less than $50 course and I'm happy to push them over there to learn. Exactly. And because I went through it, I know how good it is and I make a commission off of it. And so there's no reason not to do that. And you're not pushing, you know, some of the, I can hear it now like ye, but I'm, now I'm sending my subscribers to someone else and they're going to get, they're going to buy their thing. Look, fine, it's, you know, it is what it is.

Right.

But at the same time, like you're helping them, they're going to remember that. I mean there's plenty of people that I passed them over there and they were like, hey, that was a great course. Thank you so much for sharing that. I would have never found it. This, that and the other thing.

Right.

And they're still on my list. Long time So I love that you brought that up because I think that that's a sticking point for many people when it comes to email.

Yeah. And I don't want to harp on it, but I think that opens up so many opportunities for our listeners because you might be thinking, oh, Terry, I'm still working on my signature program, I'm still working on this online course, or I feel like I'm not ready to actually sell any my own services yet. Go sell something else. Sell the microphone you're using to record your podcast or whatever program you're using to edit your videos. You're a channel and you're a trusted channel because you're telling stories about how you had to clean up a mess by your teenagers and that way people connect with you. So the more you can do that in your content, I think the more you can sell because it's not just limited to what you have to offer. It's like, I looked for all this information, all these answers, I'm distilling them down and delivering them to you. Here you go. And by the way, if you buy this thing, I'll get a small percentage of the sale, but you're not paying more for it. Like, it's just, I'm, I'm getting some money too, right? So that's, that's all it is.

And a lot of times if you do it well enough, you can go to the person who is selling the product or service or whatever and create a bonus for your audience.

Right.

And so now you look like, oh, you know, you have this thing. But by using my link, which I get a small commission for, I'll also give you this bonus, or they'll give you this bonus because you came from me. So it's a relationship builder. And so that, that's really what it comes down to. And you know, you're right. Like, you know, it's funny how many people ask me about this microphone. What does this got to do with email? Like, you know, they're like, oh, well, I'm gonna do videos and screencasts and things of that nature. And it sounds good. I don't want to, you know, I'm like, okay, here you go. You know, like, this is a 14 year old mic. They don't even sell it anymore. People, people opt into your list because of you. So share what you share your experience, share what you know.

So, Jason, before I let you go write your initial additional four or five emails for this week, what would you say to someone who's listened to this whole podcast and is still on the fence about starting their newsletter. They're still, like, not ready. What. What else would you say to them?

Well, I would say that if you're not ready, why, what's holding you back?

Right?

Like, look, I'll tell you a quick story. I did email marketing and automation for clients that sent daily emails for years before I even turned on to six days a week. And the only reason why I do six days a week is just because I'm like, all right, I just want one day off, you know, like, that I don't have to do anything. So I saw the benefits of it, saw the sales, saw the engagement, I saw the list growth. I saw all of the things great about it. And yet I still maybe wanted one a week. And I was just like, it was all in my head, right? Like, it was all in my heart that I felt like, oh, if I send more, people are going to get upset. That's not the case. They want to hear more from you.

Right?

And so if you're thinking about it or you have a list that you haven't sent to in weeks or months, look, just pull up the editor, write an email. I, I did it for a long time where I just. My first cup of coffee in the morning, it was about 15, 20 minutes just typed. And once that cup of coffee was done, I pressed send. Take imperfect action on it. You'll see the benefits come through just by sending emails. I mean, I have a coaching client now that I encouraged him to go daily. And he's like, look, and he's an author, he has a book. And he's like, look, I haven't even pushed my book. And I'm making a lot of book sales this month. Yeah, it's just showing up in their inbox. And so they're like, oh, here is this book. And you know, so just give it a try. Give yourself a framework around it. Like, I did it only for 30 days. I was like, do I even have enough to say for six days a week, for 30 days? You know, let me give it a go. 30 days and share that. I mean, your audience wants to hear from you. So I. They gave you permission to show up in their inbox by giving you their email address. So honor that and respect that and just give it a go.

So before I let you go, where can people learn more about you, your company? What's the best way to do so?

Yeah, you can find me at NurtureKit co. And as I said, the first 30 day blueprint is at NurtureKit co launch. And that's the first day, 30 days your new subscribers come onto your list to convert them into a customer.

Jason, I appreciate it. It's been great chatting with you as always and looking forward to doing it again soon.

Yeah, awesome. Thanks for having me. Terry.

Apply what you've learned on today's show. You'll find the show notes and more resources at Terryrice Co podcast again, that's TerryRice Co podcast, and the best way to support this podcast is by subscribing and telling a friend and leaving a review. Also, you can get more tips by following me on Instagram terryrice or follow me on LinkedIn. This episode was produced by Josh Wilcox.

Of Brooklyn Podcasting Studio and edited by Dan Lardy.

Special thanks to my wife, Dominique, for keeping our kids relatively quiet as I recorded.

Thanks again for listening.

I'll see you next time.

Sam.