Mastering Resilience: Learn to Detach Mistakes from Your Self-Worth with Darrell Vesterfelt

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Came to a breaking point a little bit. Clients were pissed off at me, my partners were pissed off at me. At home, I was stressed out and not being a present dad and partner. And then I'm grieving really heavily and I was asked to leave the company that I started. I was just very, very scared. I had just maybe ruined my career.

This is Reclaim in Advance, a social impact project where we host vulnerable conversations with modern day high performers exploring the lowest points of their personal or professional life, how they recovered, and their life on the other side of hardship. My hope is that you'll realize you aren't the only one who goes through tough times and there is a way out. Through these conversations, you'll gain inspiration from the grit and honesty of our guests and you'll learn practical tools and science backed frameworks that empower you to take on new challenges, regardless of how difficult they may seem at first. So if you're ready to join in, let's get started. Darrell Westerfeld is a visionary leader who builds and scales businesses. Since 2015, he's helped creator entrepreneurs generate over $45 million in course sales. He's a friend, mentor, and the founder of the agency that I work for, which is called hey Creator Darrell. How's it going today?

Good man, good to see you.

You as well. And I'm looking forward to today's chat because I know you so well and I know this is going to go to a place that I'm not familiar with in regards to your story. And for me I'm already excited. But let's just level set here. Can you, can you introduce yourself to our, to our audience please?

Yeah. I'm Darrell Vesterfeldt, founder, entrepreneur. I have started several companies, currently own a handful. I've been in the creator economy space since before that was even a term. Since about 2004, my entire kind of professional career has existed in that space a little bit. I've worked at companies like ConvertKit in the past and I've also worked with many, many high influence pro athletes, authors, podcasters, bloggers, whatever we want to call the medium of the time, specifically around how to monetize their audience. So I've been doing that for a long time.

Yeah, yeah. You started the whole trend here with the creator economy, so I dig that.

I don't think I started it.

Well. Either way, you're very instrumental in the growth. But how are things going these days? Overall, good.

Man. My life's never been better. What I love about work and life is that everything's so integrated. So I feel like I have deeper friendships than I've ever had before. Work has been challenging and fun and rewarding like never before. And it's a fun game to play. I think it's the most fun game to play is how to improve your life and yourself and your relationships and your business. And so I just view all of it kind of as an infinite game. And the game is really fun right now. There's lots of challenging parts of it. There's lots of frustrating parts of it. That's part of the game, but it wouldn't be fun. I think maybe Warren Buffett said it once, if you just hit a golf ball and it went into the hole every single time you hit it, it just wouldn't be fun. Part of the fun is the contrast between the roughs and the bunkers and also the sweet shots that you just hit down the middle of the fairway. And so I'm just having fun playing the game right now. Not everything is perfect, but I'm having a lot of fun playing the game. More fun than ever, actually.

Yeah, I love that quote. I'm going to borrow that one from you, but. Okay, so now we're going to go off this cliff where you mentioned some of the rough parts of your journey, and that's what we want to focus on today. Not in a way to exploit you or just to be amazed at your comeback, but in a way that motivates other people to do the same if they're pushing through some tough challenges. So you're up. What is the most challenging part of. Of your life, either personally or professionally, that you feel comfortable sharing?

Yeah. So I want to talk about part of my career four years ago. That is, I haven't actually talked a lot about it with. I've never talked about it publicly. And even you and I have been friends for a couple of years now, and I haven't even talked to you about it before right now. But it's around the week that my daughter was born and kind of the subsequent months after that. At the time, I had two companies. We were actually splitting out into two different companies. And one of the companies that was splitting out, I brought in a co founder and then investors. And it was the first time I ever had investors in a company of mine before, and I just wasn't ready, man. I was really probably mentally ready for it. Like, I could do all the things, but emotionally became a pretty challenging point. So the company went from zero to a million dollars of revenue in the first 12 months, which was really great for, you know, kind of a lean. A lean startup, like, small investment, just small company. It did really well, really quickly. But the problem was I was spread way too thin across too many different things. And I also just wasn't mentally prepared for how hard being a dad for the first time was going to be. So there came a moment that I'm not proud of this at all, but there came a moment where we had to. My daughter was breech, and so we had to do a scheduled C section, and I was so far behind on projects that were supposed to be launching that I was, like, asking Claire to push back the C section, the scheduled C section, so I could have another day or two. Before was even before Collins came, my daughter came, and I missed deadlines with these big projects. Lots of money was invested in them. I just, like, came to a breaking point a little bit. I didn't get the things done I needed to get done. They weren't done to the quality that I wanted them. I had frustrated partners at work. I had frustrated partners at home. Partner at home. I wasn't able to be present. And it just kind of all hit in this break point. On top of it, first time ever having a baby, no sleep, and something like, you know, I didn't ever think I was going to be a dad. This was something that was kind of a surprise for us, and it was a really great surprise in the end. But I was also working through this, like, complete shift of my identity of, like, I thought I was going to be this person forever, and now all of a sudden, I'm this person. And there was a loss. And I don't think that anybody ever told me that there was a loss that you experience when you become a parent, because everybody's focused on all the positive sides of it. And so everybody's like, oh, it's so amazing. You're gonna love your child so much. And positive, positive, positive, positive. And nobody ever gave me the freedom to say, it's okay to be sad that who you used to be is gone now. And so I was dealing with the guilt of feeling that. It's like, I love my daughter, but I'm also really sad that who I used to be is gone. And there's a lot of grief around that. So I miss deadlines. Clients were pissed off at me, My partners were pissed off at me. At home, I was stressed out and not being a present dad and partner. And then I'm grieving really heavily. And I was asked to leave the company that I started fired basically, and asked to leave the company that I started just so that those partners could save face with the clients that I had completely made huge mistakes on. And in the moment it felt like these were potential, like large, influential clients. They were large influential partners and investors. And I had just maybe ruined my career. And it's kind of how I felt in the moment. And I was just very, very scared. And it was about a six month, very, very dark period of my life where I was having a hard time being a new dad. I just lost a business that I basically worked for free for a whole year on, trying to bootstrap this company. Even though we had a small investment amount I was working for way under market. I was working for barely anything on top of it. Embarrassed in front of really influential clients and probably burned some bridges. That really sucked. So just a really, really dark and hard time. And that's kind of the 30,000 foot view of that time. Probably lasted six months to a year where we're just kind of a really, really dark period where I wasn't sure what career would look like after that because it just felt like I might have ruined it all.

Yeah. I think on my end I had a somewhat similar experience when my first kid was born. I just became an entrepreneur and I had no idea what I was doing whatsoever.

Yeah.

And I saw I had a new business and a new kid and I was so stressed out and so worried about the future that I was not present. I was physically present. I was there every day, but I was just zoned out. And to this day I'll look at pictures of my daughter from back then and I don't remember those moments. And there's a lot of guilt around that as well. But I'm saying this to let you realize that you're not the only guy who's felt that way. I felt that way too, by the way. Right. So I think that's the benefit of talking about these things. You realize we're not the only ones that are going through this.

Yeah, it's good. I had a friend who felt the same kind of way. He's like, I don't know how to talk about this, but I feel really bad. I don't even know If I like my kid, like, I'm feeling really guilty. I'm having a lot of resentment. Is this real? And I was like, yeah, it actually is really real. Like, it's really okay to grieve the fact that who you thought you were going to be or maybe who you wanted to be, like, it's a moment where it's like, you see this kid and it's like, oh, my responsibilities have completely changed. My priorities have completely changed. Who I thought I was going to be is different. And there's okay to grieve that. It's okay to feel that sadness. People just don't talk about it a lot. And I think it's key because I don't think I'm the only dad who's ever felt that of like, well, it's over. It's different now. And I think that the guilt that you feel puts you into isolation, which just makes it ten times worse.

And I'll say this. I mean, that feeling doesn't necessarily go away because I have four kids. They're between 2 and 8 years old. There's still times to this day where I'm like, I could get so much done if I wasn't arguing over what you're watching on TV right now or making your lunch or things like that. So to your point, the more that we share, I think the more we realize these are normal behaviors and normal feelings to have. But what I want to do is I want to understand what happened, because you said it took you about six to 12 months to get back in the swing of things. So I want to know what was happening during those six to 12 months, first of all. And then what was the spark that made you feel like, okay, I'm back.

Yeah, honestly, this is not a good strategy, but it's just an honest thing that happened, is I just held my breath for a long time to see what the fallout was going to be. I hid a lot. And I don't think those are necessarily good strategies, but I think that's what prolonged maybe that period of time for me is. Is I was so embarrassed that I had failed in front of these people like my partners, who, again, super influential, and my clients who are super influential, that I just hid. I tried to avoid talking to anybody. I tried to avoid thinking about it, hoping that if I just closed my eyes and held my breath, that it would, like, the storm would pass a little bit. And then I think part of the strategy in my mind, again, I'm not recommending this strategy, was to see if There was going to be another shoe that dropped that I wasn't aware of. And so I kept holding my breath, hoping that another shoe wouldn't drop. And I think if I were to do it over again, and I think what ended up taking me out of it is just leaning into it more and owning it. And I think if I would have been able to be more honest with myself, I probably would have been able to be more honest with the people around me and just say, hey, I feel incredibly guilty that this happened. I know that I let you down. I'm really sorry. I think if I would have just said that to people instead of keep trying to make it work, I would have been in a lot better place. And so at some point, like, through lots of conversations with therapists and other things, it came to a point where deciding, like, which of those relationships, it made sense to do some of that repair and then begin doing that repair a little bit with myself, too, and just let myself off the hook a little bit, give myself grace, that a mistake, even if a mistake that large is not going to be the end of me or my career, was really key. And so there's just a lot of work and a lot of time to kind of get through the holding the breath, closing my eyes, hoping that nothing bad happens sort of thing, and then beginning to let myself off the hook and then beginning to make repairs where it made sense.

I have a statement and then a question. My statement is, after I got fired from working at Facebook, I hid, too. I hid. I didn't want to go out in public just in case. I saw some of my co workers because some of them live in my neighborhood, and I was so afraid of bumping into them and them saying, hey, I didn't see you at lunch day, or whatever, something like that. And I thought it was the end of the world. Like, I thought it was end of the world because I had this job that was so sought after and it was so amazing. My parents were all proud of me and all this stuff, and I lost it. And I didn't even tell them I got laid off. And that's something I do regret to an extent, because my father died about seven months after I got laid off. And up until the day he died, he still thought I worked there. He was saying that in the hospital bed. I'm like, shit, I gotta tell this guy something. And I didn't. So I almost feel. I don't want to say silly, but it's like, it was very foolish of me to have that Thought that someone like you or I would get stopped by one thing in our life and we would never rebound. But when you're in it, gosh, it's so hard to see that.

It's so hard. And I think I even have grace for myself in that moment where I was like, that's all that I knew to do. Like, if I'm in that position again, which I hope I never am, I think I would do it differently. I think I would do it differently now. But I think I needed to go through that and to be even honest with the pain that caused me and then maybe like, making the problem worse to the people around me to learn how would I have known that was the best strategy that I could come up with at that time, is to hide, you know, and it's like, that's okay, that's okay. It's like, I think sometimes we hold ourselves to impossible or ridiculous standards because we have hindsight into something. At the time, it was the best that I could do. The best that I could do when my daughter was born is to not answer phone calls from my partners for 10 days, to not answer emails, to not let people know where I was at on things. And guess what? In hindsight, that's a really bad strategy. But at the time, like, that's all that I could do. And so I can give myself a little bit of grace. I'm ashamed a little bit. And that's okay. Shame's not bad. But I'm ashamed how I behaved now that I have, like, I'm out of that fight or flight survival mode a little bit, I can look back and be like, ah, that didn't feel good to me either. To respond to people that way. It didn't feel good to me to hide. I would do it differently, but it's okay. I had to probably do it badly to know how to do it better. And I think that's okay. I have a little bit of grace for myself going through that.

I'm going to have another question here. Actually going to be two questions. One is, do you feel like you're overly accountable to your partners now after going through that experience where you let them down, do you feel like you really have to just over deliver in order to make up for it? And I'm asking you because I feel that way after my experiences, so I'm wondering if you feel the same way too. Like, my goal now is always to be the best partner that anyone works with because I know what it's like to be the shittiest person that anyone's worked with.

Yeah.

So I'm curious if you feel the same way as. Well, I don't.

I actually don't think that I. Maybe I did for a while. I felt this extreme pressure to. I think where I land now is I just need to do what I know I need to do, so I don't try to go above and beyond, and I don't do less either. So it's like, I just know that if I do what I know I'm supposed to do, that's enough. Right. And so I just hold myself accountable to that. So if I have a thought of something I know I'm supposed to do, or if I have a conviction or there's something inside of me where I know I'm supposed to do it, I do it. And I think the idea of going over, like, those overreactions, like, the hiding is an overreaction in one direction or the, like, going over in reaction to prove myself, I think they're the same wrong on the different ends of the spectrum. Right? And so I think what I've learned over time is the urge to hide or to try to do everything that I'm. I, like, try to prove that I can do everything even when I can't do it. That's just as wrong as, like, going above and beyond to prove myself. I think it's like the same spectrum, the same problem, just at different ends of the spectrum. And so for me, it's like, hey, no more, no less. Just do exactly what I know I'm supposed to do. And then I also let myself off the hook. And I don't just feel guilty all the time because it sucked. Feeling guilty all the time, man. Where it's like, all right, I suck as a partner. I suck as a human. And so I've got to go above and beyond to prove that I'm enough, because I'm just not enough. Default. That's too much pressure to hold where I, like, have this default. I'm not enough, and I've got to go above and beyond. So I just think I'm enough. I think I'm a good partner. I know my skill and my worth now, so just do exactly what I know. No more, no less. And that's exactly what I think my partners expect from me. So. And then I think the second thing is feedback. I've learned to love feedback now. And how you respond to feedback goes a long way in partnerships, not just at work, but at home, too. That when a partner comes to me and Gives me feedback. I just want to acknowledge the fact that they're experiencing what they're telling me they're experiencing. And I think a lot of times people go immediately into, like, telling a story or justifying the behavior or whatever else. And I've just learned, man, can I just acknowledge, hey, I'm sorry that you're feeling that way. If I were in your shoes, I would probably feel the same way. It makes a lot of sense to me. Maybe here's some context so you understand where my mind's at. How can we make this better in the future? And I've learned just, like, being really good at, like, receiving feedback and then replying to feedback goes a ton, a long, long way, because nobody's perfect. So, like, I'm not perfect, Terri. So I don't have an expectation that you're going to be perfect. But I think we think people have that expectation of us, and it's just not true.

You know, what's interesting is I still. I'm triggered by negative feedback, even though the majority of feedback I get is wonderful. Yeah, it takes me back to that place, who I was, like, you know, eight, 10 years ago, who was getting horrible feedback all the time because I was screwing up near the end. And I'm still working through that. I'm not. I'm not done with that.

But, yeah, I'd be curious to know where, like, what the belief is that causes that to be a trigger. Because there has to be some belief about yourself that you're afraid is true when that feedback comes through. And I think that's the work I'm continuing to do in myself, too, is, you know, like, if I have a partner who's upset, like, man, I go into, like, my guts turn into a nod, and I get hyperactive. I bet my heartbeat raises, like it's a real thing, that it's a trigger for me, too. But I think there's some belief I have about myself that I'm afraid is true. Right. Like, I'm afraid that they think I'm a piece of shit, too. And if they think it, then it must be true. And I think I've just gotten to a place again through tons of therapy, which is the best investment I've ever made of just being, like, I don't actually believe I'm a piece of shit anymore. Like, do I do shitty things sometimes? Yep. Do I make mistakes sometimes? Yep. But when somebody thinks I'm a piece of shit, man, it just means so much more about them than it does about me. And I've heard people say that a hundred times, and it meant nothing to me until it clicked for me, and then I understood exactly what they were saying. And so I'm curious. I'd be curious for myself and for you. Like, what is the belief that you're afraid is true when somebody gives you that negative feedback? And what kind of things can we do to change that belief that you have about it? And I think that's probably maybe the work that all of us are supposed to do. Not just specific to you.

But, yeah, one thing, first of all that comes to mind is this quote. I can't remember where I heard it, but it was, you're not perfect, but you're not your mistakes. And I try to keep that in mind. So it's just a fear of backsliding to the person I was before because I had to fight really hard to build myself back up, both mentally, physically, and professionally. So that's what it is. It's a fear. And I almost see as a.

Here's. Here's something I think about a lot. How can you be something that you're not? Like, your state of being is who you are, right? I think about this so often because a lot of times I work in marketing a lot, and a lot of times people are afraid to be like, that sleazy marketing guy. And I'm like, but are you that sleazy marketing guy? And they're like, well, no. And I'm like, well, then how can you be that if you're not that? And it's like, who you are defines how you show up, right? So I think a lot of it's really important. And this is maybe a lot of the work that I've done manifesting in this conversation a bit. I used to be afraid that I was a piece of shit. So when my partners thought I was a piece of shit, I. I was like, see? Confirmation, check mark. I am that, right? But I think what I've begun to learn is that just because I've done a shitty thing does not make me a piece of shit, right? And I think that that is a lot of work to get to that point is I've done a shitty thing. I've. I've hurt people. I've made mistakes. I am not a shitty person. I am a person who's made a mistake and has hurt people. Even the reframe of how you say that is so freaking key. Because if we start having identity, like, identity is huge. Like, James Clear talks about, like, habits, like, how important identity is and the habits that you have. If the identity, the subversive or like subconscious identity I have about myself is that I'm a piece of shit, as soon as the negative feedback comes to me, I'm like, see, I am told you. So if my underlying or subconscious belief about myself is that I'm a good person who is maybe limited and I think this is like the ego continuum a little bit, right? I think it's like people who have a hard time taking feedback, I also think they believe the good press about themselves a little bit too much too. It's the same ego continuum a little bit of like, hey, actually you know, one of the most freeing things I've done in the last five years of my life is to admit that the success I had at Convertkit probably would have happened if I was there or not, right? For a long time I was like, people were like patting me on the back of like, oh my gosh, you were the director of growth there. I can't believe it. And it's like I was believing it, like, yeah, see how awesome I am? Like da da da da. That's the same continuum of like you're a piece of shit. And it's like, no, actually Convertkit was a really great product. Nathan built a really great product. It also was hitting kind of like a zeitgeist at a specific time. I happened to join the team at the right time and also I'm a talented marketer so it's like it doesn't have to be all in. And I feel like when you can live in that mid zone of like not believing the shit part of the story and not believing the hype part of the story, you kind of get out of that ego continuum a little bit. There's just a bit of honesty. But then you can have honest like assessment of who you are. Your identity can become a little bit more true and real. Like I am a really good marketer. That is a part of my identity. I'm a great marketer and also I picked a great team to join at the right time, right? And that allows me to have the identity of like if somebody came to me and was like, hey, you're like everything you touch turns to gold. It's like eh, it would feel really easy to believe that story. And I think the ego likes to go to the extremes of like, you're a piece of shit and see you made a mistake so you must be a piece of shit. Or hey, you're really awesome and look at how really awesome you Are. And the ego loves to live in the extreme of those things. But I think the reality is a little bit more in the middle. And when we can get outside of that ego a little bit, I think the identity becomes a little bit more real. So then I make a mistake and somebody's like, oh, you're a piece of shit. And it's like, no, I'm not a piece of shit. I'm sorry that you think that. You must also live in those extremes. Your ego must also be pulling you into those extremes and you must believe that about yourself, which is why you're projecting it on me. I made a mistake and I might have done a really shitty thing. I made a mistake, that's not a part of my identity. Or somebody comes to me, is like, oh my gosh, you're amazing. It's like, no, like, I'm good at what I do. I'm not like what you're kind of building me up to be. But I think it's actually the same continuum again, the same spectrum of ego kind of pulling you into the extremes of either direction. And the work I think to do is to really have an identity and believe that. Right. And I think that takes work to do, like with therapy and conversations. And I also think it is done in the mix of friends who are also committed to like not being ego, egocentric people. And I think it happens inside of relationship in those ways, like with people you work with and your friends and, you know, relationships with professionals like therapists. So sorry, that was like wide ranging trying to pull all that together. But hope that makes sense.

Now I can tell you've invested a lot into therapy because you're, you're very self actualized and very clear on who you are. So I, I can, I can, I can appreciate that. I, I do have another question though, because you said you hid, you know, from your partners and from investors and everything, but you can't hide from your wife. So what was that like between when you got let go from this company and when things started getting better? Like, did you turn into super dad? Were you like, I don't want to get out of bed in the morning or like, what, what happened?

Yeah, I mean, I think what I did is I hid from work and I became present at home. And again, it was like, not that being present at home is wrong and, but I think like I was, I was doing the thing where I was going to extremes, right. It was like this thing hit me and I was like, being a dad is more important than work. Right now, work can wait. People are calling me. I mean, my phone has, like, four missed calls from the same person or many emails. Like, are you okay? Are things okay? Like, we're actually worried about you at this point. So I think, like, part of the hiding was just to be present at home there. But I don't know that I was emotionally present. I don't think I was processing this with Claire. Like, I was physically present, and I was like, you know, doing feedings in the middle of the night. I was doing, like, I was doing the things I was supposed to do, whereas at work, I wasn't even doing the responsibilities. But I don't know that I was emotionally present with her. I don't think I was processing with her. I'd have to ask her. This is. I'm a little bit blacked out of this part of it. Like, did she know how hard it was at work and how hard things were going on? Was I being completely transparent with her about everything that was happening there, too? I don't remember. So I think I was hiding, maybe just emotionally more than physically. And I don't know that I was being honest with myself. So it probably would be pretty impossible to be honest with you, other people around me.

So, yeah, I'm glad we're digging in on this because again, I think a lot of our listeners are going through something, and there are people there that will support them and show empathy. But if you're not transparent and authentic and open about it, then you can't even get that support. So I just want to encourage anyone listening, like, hey, if you're going through it, don't go through it by yourself. You know, it's going to be worse the more that you try to hide.

This and literally just find one person. And it doesn't have to be who it's supposed to be either. Like, I think there's, like, this intuitive part of us, too, that I remember that the person that I did end up talking to about this first was a friend of mine who I'd just known for years. And I was like, I just need to talk. And so it wasn't maybe the right person to talk to, but it was like, just tell somebody, just one person. It will give you the confidence to begin telling more. And I think just starting small, just tell somebody. Or I have this rubber duck that sits behind me all the time. Yeah, just tell the rubber duck. Like, that's why I tell the rubber duck, dude, Just tell the rubber duck. Like, talk to something. If it can't Be someone, then talk to something. And then, you know, progress from something to someone. But, yeah, tell someone.

So I'm gonna ask you one more question. This is gonna be a difficult one. Cause I don't know how I would answer it right now. But I'm wondering if you feel comfortable sharing one of your favorite quotes and if you wanna give some context around why it's one of your favorite quotes, that would be great. But I love a good quote. So I'm wondering if you have something for us here.

Yeah, you'll actually know this quote. But my favorite quote, it's Carl Jung. Until we make the unconscious consciousness, it will rule our lives and we'll call it fate. I think I did that justice. I think that was basically it. And I think that a lot of what we're talking about here is like, subconsciously I believed I was a piece of shit and it ruled my life. So every time negative feedback came, I, like, I believed it. Right. And so I think until we can, like, stare down the subconscious, it's gonna rule our lives. We're gonna call it fate. Like it's magically appearing or it's coincidence or whatever else. And it's just the subconscious or not conscious being conscious.

Well, you nailed it. So thank you. I know I put you on the spot with that one, but, Daryl, just thanks in general for this. Thanks for being my friend. I appreciate that. Just having you in my life. But thanks for being so willing to share your story with our listeners. Because I know you're helping people. So I appreciate that.

Yeah, thanks, Terry. Thanks for having me.

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