True Optimism Is Rooted In Grit with Jess Ekstrom

Hey, before we get started today, I just want to say thanks for tuning in and if you enjoy listening to the podcast, do me a favor and leave a review. First of all, I'd appreciate your feedback and secondly, your input will allow us to connect with and inspire more people. And with that, let's get started.

I had an experience of telling a story on stage that I actively my whole life tried not to tell. And it's about my family losing all of our money to Bernie Madoff when I was in high school. And then also Bernie Madoff is my uncle, so we are related to him.

This is Reclaim in Advance, a social impact project where we host vulnerable conversations with modern day high performers exploring the lowest points of their personal or professional life, how they recovered, and their life on the other side of hardship. My hope is that you'll realize you aren't the only one who goes through tough times and there is a way out. Through these conversations, you'll gain inspiration from the grit and honesty of our guests and you'll learn practical tools and science backed frameworks that empower you to take on new challenges regardless of how difficult they may seem at first. So if you're ready to join in, let's get started. Today we'll hear from Jess Ekstrom. Jess is the founder of Headbands of Hope and Mic Drop Workshop. She also invests in women owned businesses, is a two time best selling author, Forbes top rated speaker, and a new mom. Jess and her companies have been featured on Today, Good Morning America, Seventeen Magazine, Vanity Fair, Forbes, and People. And more importantly, they've helped millions of women and girls around the world. So let's jump in. Jess, I am so glad to be speaking with you today. We met through our friend Patrice Pulitzer who was raving about your program, the Mic Drop Academy and could not stop talking about it for several days. So I'm sure it's amazing. I'd love to hear more about that. And then I know you also have a nonprofit, Headbands of Hope, I believe, where you're helping kids around the world that are impacted by illness. So I feel like I'm in the presence of great greatness right now and I'm glad to be speaking with you.

The feeling is mutual. I have read so many of your articles in Entrepreneur Like I've been following you on LinkedIn. So the fact that we are now here talking to each other is a great gift and I'm so thrilled.

Awesome. And I can see behind you that you have a book. It looks like it's called Chasing the bright side, if I'm not incorrect, and. And I want to hear more about that. So you're obviously an author, you're a speaker, you have amazing courses. But what would you say to someone if you met them on a plane and they asked you about yourself but you could not say what you did?

That's such a good question. I would say if I couldn't say what I did. I like to simplify the complex for people. I think that we make things too complicated, whether that be entrepreneurship or speaking or writing. And so if I could say, like, what I do without what I actually do. I like to simplify the complex and just, like, make things feel attainable to someone.

I like that, and I try to do the same. Not to copycat you, but I'm surprised at how many experts out there try to make the simple sound complex so they can charge more for their work.

A lot of people do the reverse. You're so right. And I'm like, people don't want to have to think that hard. I don't want to have to think that hard. So just tell me what I need to do or tell. Give me, like, a lesson that a kindergartner could understand. And, you know, it seems like people pay for the immense, groundbreaking. I've never thought of it that. Never thought of it before, but I find that people are more attracted to just the simplicity and, like, help me get from A to B with the least amount of friction and tension as possible. So, yeah, I like to simplify the complex.

Yeah, I love it. And all of you listening, can't see, but behind Jess, there's this huge sign that says the Bright side. She has her two books here, Chasing the Bright side. So let's just learn more about the Bright side. Like, what is this? What's that? That concept?

Well, before you say, okay, Hakuna matata. This girl is like toxic positivity. I think that, you know, my first book, Chasing the Bright side, came from realizing that, like, optimism is actually born in the darker moments. If my husband is, like, naturally optimistic, I always joke, he's like, the Finding Nemo wakes up. Like, the sun is shining, the tank is clean. Like, everything's great. Where optimism, for me, is something that had to be trained. And I think that that's like a lesson in thought. Leadership is a lot of time. The thing that you teach to others is the thing that didn't come naturally to you. You know, the thing that you had to will yourself to learn and to practice. And so for me, chasing the bright side, you know, my first company had bands of hope, had started to get some traction, and I wanted to share the mindset shifts and how I did it, but I wanted it to be in a really honest way, because I'm sure, Terri, you know the narrative of entrepreneurs that are like, well, one day I had this idea, the next day we're just sold out, and, you know, our biggest problem is we can't keep anything in stock. And you're like, okay, cry me a river. That's, like, not how it goes. And so I wanted to tell the real story of starting my first company, including just some of the dark parts of it and how we can, like, train ourselves to believe in better. And so believing that optimism is, like, less of a mood that we're in of, like, forced positivity or happiness, and more of a strategy that we can adapt to do good.

I like that. And I think for people that are, like, eternal optimists, I'm like, that just feels like your baseline. You know what I mean? It's like. And I'm not dissing your husband. I'm sure it's great.

But it's like, you can diss him. I do it all the time. Yeah.

All right, well, maybe he can skip this episode.

Yeah.

But, yeah, I mean, like, I like it when people have a struggle they've gone through, and I've had to be optimistic, persistent, resilient to get through it, as opposed to someone who's like, oh, yeah, I just wake up and life is great, you know? Like, how come your life isn't great? It's like, well, I've been through some shit, dude. Like, that's why so.

Right.

So totally.

And that's kind of a cautionary tale. I give speakers. Is like, a lot of times the way that people think. I need to go up there, and I need to sound qualified, and I need to be credible, and I need to appear like, I've had this figured out forever. And it's like, no one wants to learn from someone that's, like, just naturally good at something because they never had struggle. And so sometimes, like, the greatest lessons that you have that you should share with others come from your worst moments. And so it's not about, like, making yourself appear good or credible. It's about, like, what is the stories and things that I can share that is going to best serve the people in front of me. And sometimes they're not the most fun things to share.

I have four living children. Unfortunately, we lost one, so I just, you know, I'm low on time, so I have to maximize my impact. And like we were saying before we started recording, for years, I never talked about losing my son TJ on stage because I just didn't feel comfortable. I didn't know how the audience would respond. And it just. I don't know, there's something was holding me back, but something pushed me forward about a year ago and the response was just amazing, which I've talked about before. But that is really what was the spark for this podcast where people like you and I talk about our most challenging times that we've had, how we overcome them, and then hopefully pass on some guidance to our audience as well. This is me teeing you up to share your story, whatever you feel comfortable with.

Before you do that, can I ask what was the shift for you that you finally said, I'm gonna talk about TJ on stage?

I was not prepared to answer questions on the show, but yeah, I'll explain it this way. I was at a mastermind right before our ConvertKit conference, and during the mastermind, there's like 12 of us in the room, and the conversations got very, very deep and vulnerable. So people that, that you and I both know, who are very high performers, literally in tears because they're not making as much money as people think they are, and they feel like a fraud. Other people just having challenges, overcoming their childhood. Like they grew up poor, like, no plumbing in the house and like they're younger than me. So like not having plumbing, you know, in the 80s is a real thing. And just crying, feeling like they just still don't fit in. So just being in that, like, that just community, that tight knit community of people just getting real and getting vulnerable. I shared my story about losing my SO and that that small audience. But the next day, I was the opening keynote at that conference and I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna let it loose. And that micro experience is what made me feel comfortable doing the macro one. And then after that, just going forward. I know how necessary it is because I talked about it. And as soon as I got off stage, this person came over to me. They're like, you know, one of my good friends is burying their son today as well, and his name is also tj. And I shared your story with them and it gave them some comfort on a very difficult day. So it's very rare that you see the immediate impact of that kind of work and vulnerability and expressing yourself. But for me, it was within minutes. And that's when I was Like, I have to keep on going along this path even though it is challenging at times.

Wow, that just gave me goosebumps. But yeah, I think you hit it on the head of how can you try things in a micro way to almost rip the band aid of doing it in a macro way. I think a lot of talk around entrepreneurship and stuff is like, go for it, you know, go all in, go down the black diamond, skip the bunny hill. And I'm like, no, what ways can we create, make the world feel smaller before we do something big? I'm all for that. But I had an experience of telling a story on stage that I actively, my whole life tried not to tell. And it's about my family, you know, losing all of our money to Bernie Madoff when we, when I was in high school. And then also Bernie Madoff is my uncle, so we are related to him. And it was like this skeleton in my closet that was like, no one can find out about this. I never, I want to. I think that's also almost what fueled me to start Headbands of Hope and so many other things where I'm like, I just want to run as far and as fast away from this experience as possible. But then when I started writing Chasing the Bright side and like truly wanting to tell the story of like, how did I start to develop this muscle of believing in better and pursuing it? It started with Bernie and it started watching my parents, you know, be entrepreneurs and feel like they did everything right and line up for, you know, financial graduation of retirement and then only to realize that they're back in kindergarten again and watching my 80 year old grandparents be retired and start their own cab driving company because they needed to make money again. And you know, I just, I only recently started telling this story on stage. I wrote about it in Chasing the Bright side and same things as you, where I was like, oh, this will be a distraction or this I can't possibly, you know, how do I tie this back to professional, like what I'm doing today? And I've learned that it is like the human parts of us and the parts that make us us are so important to share because it's what adds context to what we know now. We didn't wake up one day saying, I'm going to teach people optimism or I'm going to teach people how to start a business. It's like, well, what was the actual root of it is such a gift that you can give the audience to be able to go on that journey with you just as you do talking about tj.

Yeah. And I think there almost is a bright side to this experience when you use it to humanize yourself and to say, hey, look, I've been through some stuff too, you know, I'm not perfect. Here's where I am now. But what I'm wondering though, and you can, we can punt on this one if you want though. Like, like if Bernie Madoff, you know, for years that was your uncle who you, you clearly loved, you know, and then, you know, stuff went down, there must have been some kind of strife where you're like trying to distance yourself from this person. Was also the person you remember from like, you know, summer vacations when you're younger, who's, you know, you're playing with and all this stuff. And I don't think he has like kids that you're close to as well. But like, what was that like? As much as you feel comfortable sharing.

Yeah, well, I would be lying if I said Bernie was like a big part of our family growing up. And it's almost like when he went under. Now you know why you're like, oh, because you were hiding this major secret. Like there's, you know, family reunions and stuff, but nothing that I wouldn't have called him a close family member. But I think the thing that is interesting that again, I only recently started talking about and I didn't put it in the book, is that we actually developed more of a relationship after his crime than we did before because 17 year old me was wanting to be a journalist and thought, you know, and I was like naive and far enough removed to where I could be like, not. I obviously wasn't feeling the weight of it as my parents were. So I found out that he was in prison in North Carolina, where I live and like two hours away from me. And so I would go and visit him and ask why he did it. And it was like a different person because everything he had been hiding was now out. Like, I had never heard this man say more than three words. And he would non stop talking for two hours. You know, when I would go and visit, I will say eventually the visits, the more comfortable he got in prison, the less remorse he had for what he did. And so then that's when I stopped going. I could sit and listen to someone with remorse, but I couldn't sit and listen to someone who could justify it. Which is what, the longer he was in there, the more he started to do, which, you know, I understand because you're just trying to live with your own thoughts. But, yeah, I developed more relationship after he came clean than before, which I felt guilty about for a while, too.

Yeah, I don't want to keep on poking at this. Thank you. But I don't want to keep on poking at it. I don't think it's necessary. I want to share something, and I don't know where I'm gonna go with this, but after losing my son, I mean, there's stages that you go through, right? So obviously, there's a lot of grief and sadness and even. Even anger. And I don't know who I was angry at, but what I did initially, like, after getting out of that is just try to stay as busy as possible to distract myself and to not like, fixate on what happened. And I was plugging away like that for, like, over a year or so. I would say, like, just trying not to slow down. And as I began to sit with it and just think, what can I make from this? Instead of, like, how can I run from it? That's when things got better. I remember, like, just walking to my gym, which is where I would go to. To get all, like, frustration and, like, you know, sadness out. There was always this Maserati parked out front that said Dr. TJ on it. And it would just drive me nuts, like, every time. Like, Dr. TJ, damn it. Like, you know, my son could have been a doctor, an engineer, or carpenter, all these things. And it was in my face. And I was talking to one of my friends about it, and he's like, why just walk the other side of the street? Like, walk around the car? And I. That's when I realized I was forcing myself to. To experience this because I didn't want to, like, just forget about it. And then I started thinking, well, what can I do about this? Right? You know, what can I do to make something out of this?

And.

And again, my son's name is tj, so TJ Rice sounds like a great name for an athlete. I'm like, yes. You know, so I'm all hyped about it and everything. He's going to be a, you know, a legend one way or another. And I realized, you know, he's never going to be a legend on the field or at work, but he can't have a legacy. And I can be a part of that legacy by sharing his story and how I was over to. I don't want to say, like, get over it, but get through it in an effective way. And it's made me more mindful. It's maybe more empathetic. Because I never know what other people are going through, just like people didn't know what I was going through. It's maybe more appreciative of the moments between moments instead of always waiting for, like, the next big thing. It's like, no, like, right now, living like, this is. This is it. Right. This is the big thing. So with my children, I'm more appreciative of them without feeling guilty when I yell at them, because sometimes they do get on my nerves. But it's just been an amazing way to confront the emotion that was holding me back and. And saying, what can I do with this going forward to help other people as well as myself.

Yeah.

And I feel like you did something very similar. Your whole family did. I mean, if your grandparents are starting taxi companies and stuff like, that's, you know, they're probably going to see it off into retirement, but they find a new purpose. And I don't know if, you know, we keep on using the term bright side, if there is a bright side to this, but it feels like, you know, your legacy, your family's legacy is cemented in being resilient and not giving up and not, you know, falling into depression and all this other stuff. So when I hear you speak about it, I know it's painful and I don't keep on poking at it, but that's. That's what I hear.

I appreciate that in that perspective. And one of the things that I think about with this, and I feel like one of the things that it taught me is like, and I talk about this on stage, is the difference between our experiences and our stories. Like, can't control our experiences. I can't control what happened. I can't control if my dog just started barking during a podcast interview. I can't control, you know, if our flight gets in on time. Those are all of our experiences. But our story is exactly what you said is, okay, what am I going to make of this? And what am I going to make this mean? How do I internalize this and what happens next? And those are all things within our control. And it doesn't mean. I think one of the hesitations sometimes I have around optimism and chasing the bright side is that, like, you have to push yourself through it, and it has to be immediate. Like, it took 12 years to even mention Bernie's name publicly, you know, in any way, because I was still processing the experience and not knowing what the story is. And so a lot of silver linings and lessons take longer to cook and to develop and to, like, force ourselves to find meaning in every moment can be tough. And so to give ourself, you know, that time to process is also important. And I think sometimes even being in, like, the thought leadership space, it blurs your. It blurs sometimes your filter of how you process things because you're like, I want to live my life and experience it not just through the lens of what should I share, you know, and that has, like, been something I've had to consciously do, is I don't want to just be living experiences through the lens of sharing them. I want to live them. To live them. And if that means it might take a while to share it, then so be it. There was like, this photo. I need to find it. I think it won a Nobel Prize. It was this guy sitting on a boat and a whale was, like, breaching right in front of the boat and he was, like, looking at his phone and that was the photo. And it's just like a holy cow, what we miss when we're like, our heads are pointing down. And I feel like having my daughter has, like, really put that into perspective because I think about, like, what does she see? Like, she's a blank slate. What is she seeing and what is she learning? And if she's learning that like, oh, mommy and daddy look at these square things in their hands all the time, then, like, that's not the message I want to send. And so it's really like, caught me in exactly that of, like, how much am I actually present and paying attention? Because I want her to learn that, you know, and it's put this mirror up to myself.

Yeah, it's tough sometimes, though, because you're like, I'm trying to book tickets to this show that you want to go to, or I'm trying to register you for, like, summer camp. So I think the awareness of it is very important. We can't always, like, adhere to it, but the awareness, like, you know, what are my kids seeing right now? And it's like, totally. I think that's one of the benefits of being a parent is because you're trying to instill all these values into a kid, but it's like they're only going to do what they see you do. Right. So it's like, you have to learn it and live it and then teach it. You can't just, like, you know, teach it because they're not going to listen to you.

Yeah. And like you said, it's just like, there's an awareness, but it. It doesn't. It doesn't mean you're gonna be perfect. And, like, my daughter is a year and a half. She understands some, but she doesn't understand a lot. And, like, even just learning to, like, apologize to her and own up to things that, like, I'm sorry, you know, mommy shouldn't have yelled at the dog barking at the mailman, like, that wasn't nice. And even just being able to show her how to own your imperfections and move on is something I'm actively trying to do. So, yeah, it's just an interesting. Parenting is a very interesting social experiment for yourself.

To your point, there's all these experts are like, I'm perfect. Like, here's how you do it. It's like, well, you don't know how to explain this to someone who's not perfect and to someone who's struggling because you're so gifted naturally, that you're disconnected from the struggle. And as a result, you can't help people navigate through that.

Yeah, exactly. I think you. The way you said disconnected from the struggle, that is huge. Because a lot of resistance I hear from women who want to be speakers is like, well, I'm not successful enough, or, I need to do XYZ thing before I can go up there, or I need to have a TED Talk that has millions of views. But the thing is, is that someone in the audience needs to be able to, like, connect the dots between where they're sitting and where you're standing. So if you are standing on this, like, untouchable pedestal of someone who is just, like, disrupted a whole thing and made it look easy and blah, blah, blah, it's going to be really hard for someone who's sitting in the audience to say, that could be me. But if they're still connected to the struggle and the process of what it felt like to get your first rejection letter or what it felt like to launch your website and the only customer was your mom, like, then you're like, oh, I get that. And if she could get past that, then that could be me. And so the relatability part and the connection to the struggle is so key to connecting with people. But sometimes we're too focused on being credible and being worthy of being on stage, that we're just losing that because we're trying to prove ourself.

Yeah, you're losing the audience. Cause, like, again, they don't feel that connection. And sometimes moments of pain are when you make that connection. So it's vital. But you're an amazing public speaker to the point where you train other Women and non binary individuals how to be amazing public speakers again. Our friend Patrice was raving about it, and I was like, cool, I want in. And she's like, yeah, I can't. So, yeah, I'm curious. You made a decision to make Mic Drop Academy only for women. Yeah, I have an understanding of why, perhaps, but why? And was that a challenging decision to make?

So when I first started my speaking career, you know, I started to notice, as I'm sure you've noticed, a lot of, like, lineups being white or non diverse. You're just like, oh, this is, like, a lot of times I'm the only woman on the roster. And it was something I kind of, like, flagged but never really looked into. And then I was speaking at an event for a company, and I got home and I thought I did a really good job. A couple weeks later, the event planner called me, and she was like, I just want to give you some feedback, like, off the record. And I was like, oh, crap, what did I do? Like, what did I say? Thought I did good. And she said, you know, we did audience testimonials after the weekend, and your keynote ranked the highest among all of our keynotes that weekend. And I was like, great. You know, what's the issue? And she goes, I just wanted to let you know we paid you $8,500 to come speak, and we paid our morning mail keynote $50,000 to come speak. She was like, you need to raise your rates. And at that point, I just was like, holy cow. I didn't even know that, you know, what people were getting paid, how much they were getting paid. And it's not his fault for asking for $50,000, it's just that we're not talking about it. And then I was at another event that I was speaking at in New York, and it was four event planners. And after I spoke, they had a panel about diversity in the speaking industry and why there aren't more women speakers, because less than 30% of paid public speakers are women. And an event planner from a very big company that we all know said, look, we want to bring more women on our stages every year, but they're less than 12% of the applications. And so it just became this, like, flurry of, okay, women are not applying maybe as much as men, they're not asking for as much as men, and maybe they're not getting selected as much as men. And so how can I just assist in this? And so I live in Raleigh, North Carolina, and I just rented out, like, the Bottom basement of a restaurant and put up an eventbrite was like, okay, any woman that wants to learn public speaking and how to get paid to do it Thursday night, come here. I'll have wine and cheese. And called it Mic Drop Workshop. That was the first ever Mic Drop Workshop. And then people were like, can you record this? Can you put it online so I can rewatch it? Or someone was like, I can't make it. I don't live close by. How can I attend? And I was like, I guess I'll try to put this in a course. And that was famous last words. And now Mic Drop Workshop has helped thousands of women, you know, get paid speaking. And Patrice did Mic Drop Academy, which is our live coaching program for women who are already speaking and looking to scale, since she already has a developed speaking career. But Mic Drop Workshop is our foundational. How do I do this? Get my first paid gig, develop my talk, all of that. So it's been. You know what it's been? It's like, I think sometimes you hit a certain point, and for me, it was when a little bit before I had kids, but definitely when I had kids, where you start to think about how you measure your success. And it was like, for me, for so long, it had been, how many stages can I get on? How many books can I write? How many, you know, things can I do? And you just learn that. That, like, you're only one person. That's exhausting. And it's also very limiting to only measure your success based on your own personal bandwidth and reach. And so when I created something that was not about how many stages I could get on, but how many stages I could help women get on, it just became a way more scalable way for me to see success, because it's not about me anymore. And so it's taught me a lot too. Just about, like, how I think about my success and my legacy is maybe not how much I can do, but what systems and processes and businesses can I create that help other people do it?

And it started all in the basement of a restaurant. So that's amazing.

Yeah.

So I have a very unique question for you that I've never asked him before. So we're gonna. We're gonna wrap up with this one. Okay. So pretend Patrice and I are talking about you behind your back an hour from now.

Okay.

What would you want us to say.

About you that is so good? I think I would want you to say that she walks, like, what she talks, you know, I would want you to say that I am authentic and, like, have integrity in that. But I also would like you to say that the experience was just enjoyable. And I know that sounds ridiculous, but I feel like I put an effort on just being more candid and relaxed and not so transactional of, like, I'm gonna go on this podcast, what am I gonna promote and what am I gonna share? It's just like. No, I just want the things that I involve myself in to be enjoyable and fun and learn from people that I am talking to. And I hope that people feel the same way about me. So, you know, I say with speaking, I'm like, I want people to be, like, unknowingly inspired, you know, because they were just having a good time. And that's what I hope you and Patrisse say about me. That's such a good question, though.

That really made me think, yeah, well, you can borrow it. And it's. It's funny because, like, my personal philosophy is, live your legacy. So how do you want people to talk about. You will go live that way? And I will say for you, you're definitely living your legacy. So I think that's great. And use the term. You said something about inspiring. Was the word you said before it.

Though, Accidentally inspired or accidentally inspiring?

I like that because there are so many speakers are like, I'm going to be inspiring. It's like, bro, like, we get it. Can you just like, yeah, can that just come. Can that be less? Like. Like, require less effort on your end to be inspiring? Like, just like, just tell your story, connect and move on.

Like, I literally, you know, I feel like videos on TikTok are, like, playing the slot machine. You never know what's gonna happen. But I did just have, like, a video that hit, like, millions of views. I'm like, okay, which. What one was it? And it was when I said, like, something that a speaker should never do. This is like, how you lose an audience. And it's when a speaker goes up and says, like, good morning, everyone. And people say, good morning. Oh, let's try that again. Good morning, everyone. Yeah, I know. Like, it triggers something in you.

Ye.

Because the speaker, you know, is now. Okay. This is about making you feel validated. This is about making you feel important. If that first greeting wasn't good enough for you. And it's the same thing as, like, telling people that they're about to be inspired. Don't tell me what's about to happen to me. Just. Just show me. And so, yeah, you and I have the same thoughts around that. Yeah.

Yeah, it's like telling someone you're a good listener. It's like, bro, just listen. Then stop talking about it like you're listening.

Yeah, yeah. I don't need to hear qualities about you. I just want discover them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Jess, I know you said you're not here to promote anything or sell anything. What do you want to promote or sell? How can we? How can we?

Yeah, you know, I just kind of. I just kind of dropped that, Terri. So you would ask me? No. I mean, obviously, if any women listening are interested in public speaking, you can go to mikedropworkshop.com but I would say my favorite place to, like, meet people and follow along. I send out a hype text every Monday with, like, a thought or a quote or a prompt for your week. So you can text me the word hype to 704-228-9495. And it's not a robot. It's me on the other end. And so I read the text sometimes I respond when I can. So let me know what you thought of this. This podcast, too. Yeah.

Awesome, Jass, this has been amazing. Thank you very much. I will say that you are effortlessly engaging, so thank you for this experience. I appreciate it.

I appreciate it. I'm glad we could finally do this. I feel like we followed each other for a long time, but this is like, the first time we've talked about.

Yeah, it's going pretty well.

Yeah, it's pretty well. Yeah. Let's do it again. Thanks, Terry.

Awesome. Thanks, Jess. And that's our show for today. And if you're looking for more tools and tactics to help you level up and overcome setbacks, head over to TerryRice Co Reclaim, where you'll gain access to two free resources. The first is the High Performance Playbook, where I share my top performance techniques. You'll also gain access to the Forge system, a program that gives you the framework to create a powerful vision for your life and the daily habits needed to make it happen. And if you're interested in joining the Reclaim and Advance movement, here are a few ways to get involved. First, subscribe and leave a review. This is the best way for us to spread the word to new people. Second, if you have a favorite takeaway from this episode, please take a screenshot and share your takeaway on social media. Tag mesterryrice so I can see it and share as well. And lastly, this one's pretty simple. Just do one random act of kindness. It doesn't matter how big or small, but this is your chance to start a ripple effect that can have a positive impact on those around you, including yourself. And remember, success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It's the courage to continue that counts. I hope you'll continue on this journey with me, and I'll see you next time. Reclaim in advance is hosted by me, Terry Rice. Megan Dome is our managing director, and our editor is Dan Lardy. Thanks for listening.