Being a "People Pleaser" Isn't BAD!

Something that I've noticed over the last few years is that the idea of being a people pleaser has gotten a really bad rap. And the truth is, it's not an awful thing and it's not a life sentence. Deb Kramer has put together a beautiful summit, From People Pleaser to Powerhouse, and we're going to kind of talk about where did that come from and why is it important. And Deb, if you want to just, uh, if you don't mind introducing yourself, let me know, let us know a little bit. Like, how? Why? What came up? How did this come about for you?

Yeah. Hi, I'm Deb Kramer, Authenticity Life Coach, and I have been a hairstylist for 40 years, almost 40 years, and also owning salons. And I was trying to figure out who I wanted to help in the coaching industry because I kept on hearing we got to have a niche. laser in. And I wanted to help everybody because as we become coaches, I think that's— did you have that too, Theresa, that you first wanted to help everybody?

Niche? Everyone's my niche. Everyone who needs help. Absolutely.

Exactly. So it's hard and it feels like constricting. And we're both really expansive, large people. So I had this Human Design reading around business and it helped me. There was something around pleaser in my design. And I was like, oh, hey, I can speak to that. That's been in my life, you know? And, uh, and it felt like in the Human Design reading, it was really empowering. Like whatever I had learned, it was empowering, um, where I knew if I spoke about it, it would be good and I would be a good person for, um, coaching people on that. And my history proves it. And, you know, I, I came from a home where, and I love my mom and dad so much. This is not a Blame thing, just so everybody knows. And there was a lot of criticism and put-downs and things like that. And so I learned really quickly to be the good girl, to get as many attaboys as possible. And I was also the person who could stay calm in the face of the storm, who tried to ease things, create more harmony. And that followed me, you know, through grade school and high school, being the nice girl. And, you know, everybody would ask me if they, if I had money. And I was also very honest. And I'm like, yeah, I have money. And then I wouldn't get my money back and I'd be asking and asking. And I started feeling victimy like that. And I didn't even know, like I would, I would say, hey, you owe me the money type of thing. Anyway, getting off on a tangent, where I wanted to take you is that I went to, I started dating and in my dating cycles, they would always think I was really confident at first. And I am, I was confident. Yet as soon as I started having feelings, then all of my insecurities came up. more. And then that's when I started jumping into the people-pleasing patterns more. And, uh, you know, I would do and try to be everything that, that I thought they wanted. And, you know, not— it's not as bad as saying I would like a quote-unquote doormat, but still, I wasn't owning my power. The confident Deb that they met in the beginning just wasn't there as much. And I dated the wrong kind of guys, and I dated down. You know, I didn't date oftentimes, uh, people who challenged me. And so then I bought my first salon, and I knew that that would get me out of this whole boyfriend cycle thing. And it did. I finally— I put my house on the line. I put my great credit on the line. And everything shifted for me where I'm like, yeah, I can do me. And I don't need anybody else. And I started learning. I had read all the books like Date Like a Man and Boundaries and all that kind of stuff before that. And I just couldn't get myself to shift until I put Myself, actually put myself in a position, right? And that's the thing. That's what we oftentimes don't do. We want that confidence first. And it's like, no, we just got to have the courage to put that step out. Like, even Theresa and I being on this, this is not my wheelhouse to be going live or to talk like this. And it's like, guess what? It's going to be. It's getting to be. I'm becoming that person. And because I have the courage to do it now. And also quickly, I'm just going to say too, oftentimes we tend to be perfectionists when we have the pleasing patterns as well, you know, trying to be as good and right as possible. And that also stops— has stopped me from moving forward in a lot of ways. And so, but I just wanted to say that when I got into action with the salon, I really, I had to put myself first. I had to.

Mm-hmm.

You know, there was no time, and I just started getting more and more and more confident. And then it became easy to go on a date and go, do I like him? Is he funny? Hmm. Instead of, oh, I wonder what he thinks of me. I wonder if he thinks this or that. And oh my gosh, how empowering.

Yeah, it takes the power back. I loved what you said about confidence doesn't come and then you do the thing. Like, confidence builds on self-efficacy. Like when we do a thing and then we're like, I did a thing, or I could do a hard thing. Or for me, uh, owning a martial arts studio in, uh, late '90s was like, I did not have a lot of examples. I had to learn a lot and, um, I made a lot of mistakes. But the difference is I wouldn't have had— I— there was no courage. It was just like, do the thing and then you get better and better at it. So another aspect of people pleasing that I think gets missed all the time is our brains are wired in a way where we get a particular dopamine or serotonin hit When we create happiness in someone else, it just feels good.

It feels so good.

That's not every brain. But for you, when you were a kid, you were like, I feel good making people happy. And by trying to avoid or disconnect that, well, the other options just shut down. And, you know, in our heads, it's like black or white. You know, I'm either gonna be—

Or be the opposite.

Or none of the people. But our brains don't work that way. And so for you now, you've become a healthier version of wanting to help create happiness and goodness in the world. How does that look differently than it used to?

Oh my gosh. Yes. So now, you know, I have learned I'm very self-aware. I've always been self-aware, sometimes to the point where it would get me confused because so many— and I have— I think fast and so many thoughts pop in. And so one of the things that you've talked about and others speakers during the summit is we get to take that pause. And I've really learned also, so when I take that pause and I become aware, I tap into and tune into how am I feeling right now? Am I feeling scared? Am I feeling small? Am I feeling diminished in any way? Am I feeling defensive? So I check in to see if I'm feeling bad in any way. And if I am, then that's when I'm people pleasing and it's not coming from a powerful state. Because there's a, there's a difference in, in pleasing from a powerful state when it really does make us happy, you know, to, to help somebody and be the giver. I mean, that's, that's who I am. I'm going to be a giver.

Mm-hmm.

But it's, it's, it's what is motivating me, what's driving me. And so that has really helped me to, to understand and own my power. And the big thing is, I also let myself realize that it's okay. It really is okay to say no. It's okay to pick myself first. And as a matter of fact, it's needed because so many people, we oftentimes, people who have pleasing patterns, um, we also can tend to, to think that it's the best way to be. It's the right way that this is part of my identity and and it's not good to put myself first. And that's just so not true. You know, we've all heard the mask thing on the plane. We gotta take care of ourselves first. And the impact ripples all the way through our whole environment. So we're not just— so when we take care of ourselves, we're taking care of everybody. Don't you think, T?

Well, that's the difference, right? It's recognizing that pattern and you'll have that impulse in you to make sure everybody's okay, But pausing and going, is this for me? Does this work for me? We can't stop being a giver or a helper. It's like, you know, stopping being able to move your arms. It's just part of who you are. It's part of your makeup. And the difference is, what am I doing this from? Am I trying to get somewhere? Am I trying to get— you know, a lot of times people pleasers will be trying to give to get, is what I call it. Like, they're, they're giving to get affection. They're giving to get acceptance. They're giving to get, um, love. They're giving to get— Giving to get.

Validated.

Kindness, validation, all of the things. But without knowing that, and I love that you said that you're self-aware, without knowing that, you just— we, we think that's who we are. The truth of the matter is it's a patterned way of being that our brains then support neurologically, and our, our pathways will support, but it's not who we are. Too often we'll define ourselves as, that's just who I am. No. just a part. It's a tendency. It's one of the ways that you be in the world. And I know that for you, you've done so much great work in it and being able to understand that there are great parts to it. You are going to enjoy when you create happiness for someone else. You're going to love it. For me, I get the, like, like I always say, an angel gets her wings when I say something. And, uh, if, if I teach someone a boundary and they They, they then realize, oh, that's what a boundary is. This whole time I thought it was a wall. Oh, it's just a choice. It's just a statement. It's just something I say. You can't unlearn that. So once you see awareness is that key. Once you see what you see, you can't unlearn it. You can't unsee that.

You can't unsee it. And I wanted to say really quick to the win-win, you know, oftentimes, um, somebody with pleasing patterns will be in that win-lose, right? Like give and the take, right? And it's like, well, how can we both win? You know, we get to honor ourselves. And, and also the people in our lives, they appreciate and respect us when we are also trying to win for ourselves as well too. You know, they're drawn to that. You know, they have more respect.

Think about boundaries. The way that we set our own boundaries, that's how people will treat us. If we respect ourselves, others will respect us. If we respect our time, our energy, Our, any, you know, you name it, our well-being, then other people are going to automatically sort of fall into line. And the people who don't like that, they're probably not for us.

Yeah. And that's okay too. That's okay too. The whole nice thing and then being liked, right? A lot of people will tend to have that tendency to want to be liked. It's so important to them. And I learned when I was in high school At that age. And sometimes it takes some people a lot longer to learn this lesson that there is no possible way for us to have everybody like us. It is impossible. And because sometimes, like, you and I are smiley, happy, happy people, that could tick somebody off and irritate them. And they don't like you for that. So it's like, we get to give up that likability factor. We get to just step into who we are. And when it feels good, when we feel good inside, that's who we are. Right?

I love that. And half of my work, especially Boundaries and Pleasing, is where did that pattern come from? And instead of hating on it, instead of being like, it's a weakness, it's wrong, it's just who I am. It's, it's an honoring of this is part of me, this, this thing that I do. It's, it's a part of, of how I've learned how to be. But it doesn't make me wrong. It doesn't make me bad. It doesn't— there's nothing wrong with it. It's, it's just an aspect. And just like anything, you can be smiley and happy, and you can just have it as a place of being grounded, or you can be super, like, toxic positive. It's fine. Everything's true. That then it ekes over into something that is less than self-aware.

And we're not being authentic when we're like that, right? We're not honoring who we are or our values when we're, when we're being Pollyanna. There, there's a difference, you know. And then there's some people out there who don't recognize the difference, and that's okay too. Everybody, it's like, again, it's that likability thing and that acceptance thing. We don't have to have— like, our goal does not have to be getting people to like us or to accept us, right?

What?

I know, what, right? It's like, that's not empowering. That's coming from a place of deficit. We are we are already empowered human beings, man. And and when we realize that, like I used to be such a second guesser. Oh my gosh! I overthought and overthought and overthought. And I used to ask all of my hair clients all day long about what do you think about this? And da da da da da. And and and it was it was great because I'm super open as well, and I'm very flexible. But it also brought in so many different attitude or different ways of. thinking that it made my decision-making even more difficult. And in the end, how many chefs do you want in that kitchen?

How many people do you want stirring that pot in your head? Right?

So, so the good part was, yes, I got a lot of different ways of looking at it, which is fabulous. That's, that's a really great thing to have. And, and also, but the place where I was coming from, see, like, if I do it now, it's not coming from that place of I'm not good enough, I can't figure it out on my own, I got to get other people's. It's because I'm just curious. And I'm just doing it from an empowered state. And, uh, so it's, it's, it's really cool to have been able to shift that because I can feel the difference. I can feel it in the moment when I'm asking somebody their opinion. I'm like, ooh, you're get— you're, you're coming from a place of more neediness and feeling like I don't have the answers, you know, and just different things. And it's so empowering when we figure that out. And like you mentioned, We don't have to beat up on ourselves. It's just a part of who we are, and it's a beautiful part too. It's just that it's, as they say in positive intelligence— Theresa and I have both been in this, uh, training. Theresa is one of the trainers in positive intelligence, helping other people. And now I just lost my train of thought. You know, you probably know where I was going. It just totally left the building.

Oh, well, we were talking about how for pleasing, um, it's It's that idea of stopping, of being aware in that moment. And it's not bad or wrong. It's just recognizing that moment.

I just remembered, yes, that those, that the pleasing, that our people pleasing patterns and so many other patterns that we have, that we've learned in our life, those are strengths that just got too strong. So they were a strength in our childhood and growing up and things like that. It helped us. It helped us. But now It's not helping us anymore. You know, we're adults now and, and we can, we have the ability to make choice, to have choices. And when we realize when we're coming from that, that place of not enoughness, that place of wanting validation, acceptance, likability, whatever, it's like, then we know it's, oh, there we go. We get to pause, take a breath. We don't need to resist that. temptation to say yes when we really want to say no, we just get a look at it and have compassion, pull in compassion for ourselves in that moment, right? Have compassion. It's like, oh, there you are again. Like, I forget to have a sense of humor with the little parts of me. And it's like, oh, there you are. I know you're trying to help, you know? And it's like, but I got this. You know, it's like, I— when we just put ourselves first, that's all I can say, Theresa. What are the things that you say in your mind? To, um, get yourself to put yourself first?

I— for me, it's, it's a recognition of that I'm starting to resist something. I'm starting to struggle with my energy. I am starting to feel negative feelings, and I don't wanna hang out there. And then I have to ask myself, all right, well, what's creating this? Uh, I believe that we are all inherent, strong, self-creational beings. So if something in my world is happening, I'm creating my reaction to it. So I'll stop and say, Whoa! What? What is this? What? What feeling am I having? And in all honesty, Deb, I very easily take care of myself first now because any two anytime anyone's gone through a health issue or and for me it was a car accident. It was like that jumped up my if I'm tired, I rest. If I'm thirsty, I drink. If I my head hurts, I quiet my mind. Being able because I realized I cannot. function as a full human being if I'm not taking care of myself. And it became less about being selfish and more about, I can't exist, I can't thrive, I can't function, I can't do what I came here to do. And when you put that level of overview on it, like, if I help everyone else, I won't actually be able to do what I came here to do to the planet.

Yeah.

And my mission rests on the fact That I have to care for myself and, and be well. And, and for me, that's a pause too. I'll feel that tension when I wanna help somebody. And I have a rule that I give every person who is a giver, a helper, a pleaser. You only help when asked. How many times do pleasers, helpers, givers jump in? Let me take care of that for you. I can do that for you. I've got that. Nobody asked you. So I always give that rule when I'm coaching somebody. Help is requested. How many times have you— someone, you know, told you what, you know what you need to do, Deb, you know what you got to do about that, or, you know, let me take care of this for you. And you're like, I wanted to wait. I didn't even ask. There's not a buy-in. So for anyone who's a pleaser, have the people in your life ask for help first. That's like my big boundary, and that's a self-boundary. So boundaries aren't just what we use for others.

It's here.

Self-boundary. Have people ask.

And speaking of self-boundaries, one of the things, something that you had said, like, really struck for me that is, that is also so important. So often, like, you and I aren't somebody who, like, Positive Intelligence talks about all our different saboteurs. And one of the ones is being a victim. And you had mentioned to me when we're talking before we went on that victim's really low for you and victim's really low for me as well. But there's a lot of times where victim shows up, where we feel sorry for ourselves and we feel justified in our, in our thinking. Like, we really feel justified. Like, they should not have done that. He should not have left the toilet seat up. You know, all these things, you know. And, um, but when we bring in responsibility, Mm-hmm. when we bring in ownership, that sense of ownership and responsibility, like, Who am I being in this moment and how am I contributing to this issue? How am I contributing to my anger or my frustration or this trigger? And I think that is something that's part of an awareness and that sense of responsibility to sit in that, like, especially when we're upset and triggered. Yeah, this is what I wanted to talk about. I told her I wanted to talk about this, that when we're triggered, we are so justified.

Mm-hmm.

That we think that it's somebody else or something else. You know, politics and religion are big ones, right? When you're having an intimate relationship with somebody, you know, it's, it's like, um, but every time, all throughout the day, from moment to moment, we look at ourselves first, but not from a place of blame and shame.

Right.

You know, we look at ourselves and go, you know, How can I shift how I'm feeling and thinking right now? Right? And, and don't, don't look at what they're doing. Look at how you, who you're being in that moment. And, and it's so flipping empowering. But in that moment, and I'll just finish with this, in that moment though, when we're triggered, we are so justified that we really think it's something else or somebody else. But we gotta remember that, like Theresa and I have talked about here, when we're triggered, when we're uncomfortable, When we're not feeling good, that's a, that's a notion. That's something for us to tap into and know something's, you know, we're not tapped into our higher self. We're not tapped into our true self. So to do that, we get curious and look at ourselves first.

I love that. And per your example of the toilet seat, it's not like someone's leaving, he's leaving the toilet seat up just to annoy you or just to cause harm or, but the, the victim or the trigger in us We'll often say he's obviously doing this to make me miserable. No, it's not really always about you, and it's recognizing that. So thank you so much for this. Thanks for taking the time here. So excited for the summit. You have a lot of amazing speakers, and I just want to honor the journey that you've been on so that you can help and have other people enjoy their journey as well.

Absolutely. Thanks for having me. This has been fun. Thank you, Theresa.

You're so welcome.