Ep 2: Be The Change You Want To See The World

Welcome to Inspiring Women in Audit, the only podcast celebrating the achievements and journeys of women in the internal audit industry. In each episode, we spotlight the extraordinary stories, insights and expertise of these dynamic professionals. Our aim is to amplify their voices, inspiring a new generation of women auditors to share their knowledge, experiences and unique perspectives. Remember to check our show notes for links to our social media channels and to subscribe to the Inspiring Women in Audit newsletter. This podcast is brought to you by i4 Global Results Limited the audit communication experts dedicated to transforming your audit reporting and your audit results through communication, optimization and collaboration. Now let's dive in to this episode of Inspiring Women in Audit.

Welcome everyone to Inspiring Women in Audit, the podcast that is dedicated to empowering and uplifting women in the internal audit industry. My name is Tracy Marquardt and I am your host for this podcast and I'm excited today to have my guest, Madeleina Manoyu with me. Madeleina is a transformational leader. She's been in business, so she has international experience in governance, risk management, assurance and consulting across five continents. And she specializes in technology and aviation. And I know that Madeleina has a keen interest in AI and blockchain technologies, so we'll be bringing that up in our conversation today. And she is an advocate of tech for good. I love that she is a founding member of the Zug chapter for Women in Digital Switzerland. So we'll be talking about that as well. And Madeleina, I know based on my research on you, you're driven by your mission of having a positive impact on people and businesses. And I love because my mission the globe, you know, the bigger, wider mission for me is I think that we can change the world with, with positive communication. So I love that that kind of resonates together. You are currently deputy Chief Audit Executive and Risk Management at a company in Switzerland. So Madalina, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you for having me Crazy. I'm feeling like honored to be invited and yes, I hope I would bring the inspiration to women across the world in audit.

I'm sure. I'm sure you will. Now, I know I've said you were in. You've been in the business 17 years. I checked on LinkedIn, did the calculation. Can you tell our listeners what drew you to the internal audit profession and what keeps you engaged after all this time?

I discover audit at a very early stage in my life. I was a student at the Bocconi University, which a scholarship and while doing my research on my thesis, which was about like international economics I discovered a book in the library that was called International Auditing. So and like I have to say, I think in two days I just like the war like this book because you know, it was like presented in a very exciting way how as an international auditor you traveled all over the world interacting with different cultures, different people and how you need to adapt your communication style, your audit approach and so on. So I always wanted to travel all over the world. So I said okay, this is what I want to, to do. And then even my take it in the end was like, about international like auditing and the journey of like from like big things into big four. And then I started like to kind of like figure out how can I reach like this international auditing career and have like this dream career. So yeah, this is how I started. So I started. I look, I did my research around before switch one do I want to join. And then before graduating I already knew that like I would work for price at the House Cookers in external audit. So like after five years in external audit, I decided to move to internal audit working because I didn't want to have just the financial side of the business and I want to have like the overall view of the business processes, strategy and so on. So I moved in an internal audit working for ge, being a manager in charge for Europe and then I was ready to go and conquer the world. This is where I decided to move to Sita. And also I think maybe something really interesting to know is at the time that I took the decision I had three offers. One was in Geneva, one was in Zurich and the other one was in Brussels. And the only criteria that I chose was like okay, this company is present in 30 countries, this one is 50 and this one is like 150. So this was the criteria that I chose for joining like Sita. And I have to say that I had like this international career but. And yeah, so this is like let's say my, my exciting journey. So I, I living my, my dream. And then I realized also that maybe at some point I didn't dream like big enough. And so, and I think what keeps me nodded is this kind of like intellectual challenge and diversity because you need to like I said, like complex projects. Sometimes the topic that you need to discuss with the executive team or with the board, they are not like very easy going. So I think it's the culture like intellectual challenge also in terms of like diversity because you need to assess in different parts of the businesses in different geos and so on. I think the other side of it. It's also like, I think this is also something that I discovered across the journey is the power of relationship and the communication style, because this is really key. And I think it's about the artist profession and across business in general. So in a lot of cases, I just needed to kind of like, bring the entire stakeholders at the same table and just make everyone speak the same language. Because when it comes to the central team and the local teams or the support functions and the CEOs, so a lot comes to the communication side and also the power of the relationship that we are building. And personally, I also love this opportunity of being like a change agent in audit and an ambassador of good governance. So, yes, this is why I am here today.

I see a lot of things and how you're speaking about audit that really resonate with me. The traveling around the world, the being able to make a difference, the dynamic nature of the job, and working with so many different people and so many different levels from so many different cultures is all about the communication. You know, that's what I do for, for a living, is help auditors communicate more effectively. And I can see that in what you're. You're speaking about and that bringing everybody to the table and building those relationships. And I know a lot of people say, you know, the product of audit is audit reports. I believe the product of audit reports, it's not just one thing. It's relationships and audit reports. Right. You have to have both, I think, to be successful.

I totally agree with you. And I also, like, relate because, like, once I travel, like, my first, like, three, four years, I traveled all over the world. So it was a lot about, like, building this, like, strong relationship. And then I saw my travel percentage was around like, 70, 80% of my. My time. And then once I build these strong, like, foundational skills, then the communication was way more easier. So. And I think it's also, like, important to communicate to the people that you are not auditing them as individuals and you are just there to support their business, improve their processes and so on. So a lot comes to communication. I would say that, like, for me, the audit report is just like a byproduct of audit. And a lot, like, comes to the communication and how you are, like, going to do your audit and communicate, like, to all, like, your audience.

It really is a record of results, you know, but it doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be the only way you communicate your results. And I don't think it should be.

So, yeah, Definitely.

Super. So listen, I was snooping around your LinkedIn profile and I found a post, I think it was from this year, the beginning of this year perhaps. And you posted that you have decided to embrace the digital world and specifically you decided, and this is a quote from you, to intentionally shape and actively cultivate my presence in the digital world. Moving past my previous reservations. And I know it's often a challenge to step out and into the spotlight because we've all done it at some point or we wouldn't be here, you and I together. So you decided to step out this year. I personally think that LinkedIn is million dollar real estate. You can build your brand, you can share your expertise, you can share your opinions, you can build your network, you can become a thought leader. You can basically become who you want to be by using LinkedIn as your platform. So may I ask you what made you decide that now was the right time for you to step out onto the platform of LinkedIn and become more active?

So I think usually I like challenges and every year I'm trying like to get like out of my comfort zone in some way of, of the other. And I'm also the state in my life that I'm trying like to multiply my impact on both like people and businesses. And then I was like against my reluctance and I also like kind of like mirror looking my face in the mirror. I feel like this time I used a lot of good is, let's say it's not like authentic, it's like data privacy or like then I said okay, let's, let's try. And my first LinkedIn post was more of a pilot test to see if I can use it as an enabler of like multiplying the impact that I would like to have like both on businesses and people. So yes, I got like out of my comfort zone and like the first like two hours I had like 2000 like views and like hundred.

Yes.

And then like in the end it reached around like 10,000 like impressions. So I was like, okay, I will have as much as I'm like more into, let's say one to one discussion and a deepness. I realized that it has like a huge potential. And then also it's like a great like tool to multiply your impact and be it like positive or negative. And that's why I decided to use it in a very intentional like way. And yeah, like kind of like craft on a, craft it on my own terms.

That's fantastic. And, and doing it on your own terms is great. I mean, I really commend you for being brave enough to step out and do that. I think 10,000 views on a post is fantastic. And I know a lot of folks out there, including me, would love to hit 10,000 with every post. It does need to happen all the time, but sometimes you hit that right note. And I think it's a way for you to see, you know, what resonates with your community, with your network, and to provide, you know, some kind of insights for them.

So given.

May I.

And may I ask you, like a tracing, how was, let's say, your lip in this, like, LinkedIn or. And how do you use, like, LinkedIn on your, like, let's say, daily activities?

I mean, I started sharing content on LinkedIn, I would say, over 10 years ago. It was important to me. That's when I launched my business. And it was important to me to have my voice out there and to share what I know, really, to add value. This is the goal, is to add value to my network, to have a bigger network, and to add value to the network. And so that's why I do what I do. I do pretty much post every weekday, sometimes multiple times. I offer the free webinars. I let people know what other programs are going on in my world, because what I do is there to help other people. Okay. If we don't. If we don't share what we have, we cannot be of service and we cannot raise others.

That's amazing.

What LinkedIn is for is for helping others, for inspiring others. You know, the tagline for my business is impact, influence, inspire.

Oh, wow. Right.

It's very important to me that with every IIA stage or ISACA stage that I get on, I am inspiring them to take some action. Take, take one action from everything that I say. I hope from these podcasts that the listeners are inspired to do one thing a little bit differently. Because as you were saying about challenges and growth, growth is at the end of your comfort zone. So that's what you've done. You are growing. Even. Even, you know, by sharing all of your experience with me and with. With the listeners, you're sharing and you're growing and you're helping them grow, too. So I think that's fantastic.

Thank you so much. And what you are doing is outstanding. So, like, very grateful.

Thank you. Thank you. So I want to jump into something a little more technical. You've said you're passionate about AI and blockchain, and I know this is top of mind for many, many in the audit industry. How do you see advancements in AI and blockchain technology shaping the future of internal audit?

So first of all, I think it's very important to kind of like clarify the difference between the tools. So AI, it's just like helping us to build machines and systems that kind of like help us to replicate the human capabilities, while blockchain allows us to build in a transparent way and record the transaction. And then I see that it's a very powerful, let's say, tool when you combine the two of them. Because a lot in AI you are talking about the data integrity. So blockchain can be like a great enabler to assess this data integrity of the AI. And then also at the same time, the AI will enable blockchain to build these complex blockchain networks and so on. So I think it's a great way to pair together and create VR for capacities. So I don't know, what are your thoughts on that and how do you see it, Tracy?

Well, I certainly see the AI becoming more and more used by various clients that I have less so about the blockchain, but I'm wondering for the listeners, is there a short example you can give us where you can see how this works for the industry and to take the industry forward?

Yes, definitely. So I think AI and then I'll go also to blockchain. I think AI will help like auditors and like the entire governance industry, like in two ways. One side is the fact that we have the opportunity to kind of like participate in like building this AI landscape and so on. And we start with the AI governance and how to build like the AI in a very like ethical, responsible way. And then we go to the risk, risk management side and how we can talk about operational risk and ethical of it. Because a lot with AI comes to ethics and so on, and then you move to the data integrity and capabilities and so on. So I think it's like for us to, to be able to participate in shaping the AI, it's a great opportunity and also as us as auditor more to get out of our comfort zone and have like a seat at the, the strategy table and at the board and how we can also in some way, sometimes board members will not be very eager or like everyone has like limited learning. We are all in a learning journey. So I think it's important to kind of like first educate ourselves and how we can use it in our advantage and also like to, to educate like the, the others in how to use like AI in an ethical, responsible way. And then when it comes to the audit capabilities. I think it's a great opportunity because it allows us to increase the effectiveness, the efficiencies and also the accuracy of the audit process. And there are plenty of use cases. You talk about big data and data analytics, you talk about continuous monitoring, you talk about risk management. And based on my own experience, the risk management side and like AI when you combine them because a lot of times we are like you are coming with your approach one step at a time, more like past looking instead of forward looking and then here in more like detective approach and preventive. So like adopting this risk management AI approach will allow us to see like identify like the patterns or also like the trends and then allocate our like resources on the areas that will really bring value to the business and also like the high risk areas that kind of like talks to like the executive like team and the board. So this is where, where I see.

AI in audit and I, I, I love that you know, the need to educate ourselves as audit and then to help educate others within the organization, whether it's senior, the board, whoever it is and then using that technology to help us with what's happening in the world today. Because we don't know anymore what direction we're going to get hit from, where the risk is going to come from. We have a good idea but I'll tell you that the you know, we know the black swans are out there and we just have to do our best to be able to find them. And so I think that's going to be super helpful and I love that you're working in that and I would love to hear more next time you come on the audit room to talk about that in a little more detail. But as we go along here I want to jump to the women in digital Switzerland. So I know that you're a founding member, that you are part, you know, an active part of this organization and I'm wondering if you can tell us briefly about the mission of women in digital Switzerland.

So the mission of women in digital Switzerland, it's to build like a community of strong, knowledgeable and also like, like inspirational like women. We are also not very like gender biased and personally because we are working as like chapters in our like local communities. So together with I had like as a family member I had the opportunity to build my own team and then also like vision and mission. We had like the freedom to cascade like the women in digital to our local chapter. And here we built it like on two pillars. One, it's about creating this alliance with men, because without having the men on board, we cannot really change the landscape across the businesses in society. And the other part is, like, we put together a series of KPIs, because personally, before in my past, I used to be part of, like, different NGOs and so on. And then you look back two, three years after, what is the impact that, like, I brought on the society, on my community? And then yet there are some question marks. So for us, we built our, like, vision in the next, like, five years, also leveraging like the, the governmental or the private initiative. So we are aiming to build like, five upskilling or rescaling programs in the community. And then like, finding out the percentage of women in Zug, which is the crypto value of like, the world, is just 1.5%. So we are aiming to at least increase it to 2.5% and also, like a mentoring program. So, yeah, that's fabulous, because you know.

Why, If I can ask, why do you think women face so many challenges to enter this career of digital technology?

I think it all starts with the education and in our upbringing. And this is, let's say, like, the root cause. The way I see it, I have also, like, two daughters, so I can see the way the education system is built, school. But then it's also about how do you role model at home, as a mother, as a father, so the dynamics of the relationship. So I think it's as women we are facing, let's say, different or you used to face a lot of challenges, but steps are being made. For me personally, I'm a firm believer in the powerpower are examples. So I think. And every change comes, like, with us at an individual level.

Absolutely. And what I'd like to do is put a link to the women in digital Switzerland into the show so that someone can look at that.

Oh, that's brilliant. Thank you so much. Yes, definitely.

So now I want to come back to you a little bit more and ask if you can share a bit of wisdom, a piece of wisdom that you've gained throughout your career that's had a significant impact on you.

I have to say that I take every day as an opportunity to, like, grow and also as an opportunity to, like, learn and become wiser at the same time. I think I also, like, reached the stage that I accepted that I would be a work in progress towards, like, until the rest of my life. So I think this is also the lifelong approach. And then I think something that it happened to me approximately, like, five years ago that had, like, a Lifelong impact. It was like I was part of the shadow board of like in my company. And then the CEO, after like a 20 minute discussion, asked me, okay, what would, would you like to do with department and what is your like dream role? And I was very surprised because first it was the, the first time that like someone kind of like offered me on a, on a platter, like an opportunity and, and I was like, is it possible how, how you can do that? And then I also, I mumble something. But I realized that I was not really prepared to let's say like make like the, the jump like moving into the, the business and so on. So. And they are like a lot of like. And then I started also like kind of like working. I started to, to do an executive mba and I took it on me as well to figure out what I, I really want, if I want or if I want to stay in audit, why, why and so on. So this was kind of a lifelong experience because it's kind of like it was an eye opener around like the power of like networking and of the power of the relationship and also at the same time being vulnerable because of the. As an auditor, most of the time you are also used to come with your audit report or like then you just go there as a more of a student, very humble and so on. And then I also like realized that in my career what took me like at this stage, being a high achiever, performance and so on will not bring me to the other stage like being able to pregnant glassing and so on. So yes, this was extremely like, important I would say.

I love that. I love the point about, you know, essentially continuous learning. I think it's kind of a buzzword these days. We're all supposed to be, you know, continuous learners. For some, that can seem like an awful lot of work. But I think it's actually just a mindset. If you're open every day learning, it doesn't have to be reading from a book or taking a course or jumping on a webinar or whatever it is. We can learn every day by really paying attention to others and being on LinkedIn and all those, all those different kinds of things. But I also loved your experience from about five years ago because you said you weren't quite ready for the question. And I've learned from one of my coaches, be ready so that you are ready when it comes. And it's not always easy to keep that mindset going all the time and to be able to implement that because we don't always know But I think anticipating and, and being as best prepared we can will help us be successful as we, as we try to, as you said, you know, move up and break the glass ceiling. And relationships are so, so important to that. So I'm wondering, you know, this whole relationships networking, whether it's in person, at conferences, on LinkedIn, it's such a valuable tool for internal auditors today. And how do you approach networking and building professional relationships? Is there any advice you can give our listeners?

Maybe I would just like, share my, my own story. Similar with the, the digital world and going out there building my like, personal brand. It was, it started the love hate, like, relationship, the networking side being totally against it. And like, it's not authentic. It's about like, selling your job. I'm not the type of person in town. And then I learned out of like a sudden, out of like this experience, I realized, oh my God, it's like, you know, I'd never like, intended to like, build the network, let's say, in this way. I, like, I, I was never like, intentional about it, but I just like realized that like, going out there, going out of your comfort zone, talking about yourself about like, what you want, and also asking people their own story to share their own stories and their own struggles and challenges and pieces of wisdom, it's extremely, like, powerful. So this was, let's say, like the, the first time was a big, like, eye opener for me. And then I was like, okay, Timina with the, the LinkedIn part is like, how can I do it in my own way? And like, each time, Tim, then I, I love, like networking because I found like every interaction with every single individual, you can learn like, so much and you can just also like, speed up, like your accelerate, let's say, like your career based on their stories and the experience because you are just like using like, years of like, learning and experiences and expertise and so on. So I think it's, it's, it's just like, about like, connection with people. Like, really, I don't see it. Like, and sometimes you would connect with like, the people that you can relate to and sometimes, but from every single individual. I think you have like, a lot to learn and maybe something else that one of my professors during the MDA said it was like, if you want to have like the nest, you need to put the work. So I think it's in all this networking inside, it's also about doing your side of work and be intentional and also grateful for the people for offering their time or their pieces of advice. Or sharing their wisdom because sometimes you will hear story out of. You will never hear, let's say in a form or in. So I think it's an amazing way to, to develop and learn.

Absolutely. I, I love networking. I can say I can actually like, look you in the eye and say I love networking. Today I would say when I, When I started out, I was quite nervous about networking. When I went to my first industry conference, I thought, oh my gosh, you know, it's that whole authenticity thing and how do you be yourself to. And you know, it's. It's like you. For me, I don't know how it is for everyone else out there that's listening. For me, it's like a muscle. Right. And it's a muscle that I developed because I knew that the relationships that I built were going to help me grow, help me learn, give me opportunities to help other people. So it was. It's a whole kind of ripple effect. So what do you think about that concept of it being a muscle for some of us?

Yes, I think this is where like I went from like this like early stage of like hating it because it's not. I now I just like love it because. And just find like a great way to just connect with people and be inspired. And so even when you think of us, it's like I'm here and we are here together.

With.

You are in Canada, I'm in Switzerland. So it's just like an amazing.

In Germany at the moment. So absolutely.

We're.

Yeah. So it's, it's an amazing world that we live in. And you know, you and I met on LinkedIn and, and I think you reached out and responded to me and, and here we are. So it's just the power of connection and it's, it comes from, I think, wanting to engage other people and wanting to help other people and see how we can best serve those around us, as corny as that might sound.

Yeah, absolutely.

So listen, I wanted to ask you, you know, for internal auditors in general, what do you think the most important qualities or skills for success in this industry are?

I think we already like, tackle this growth mindset because I think it's really like to be like, to stay like, open to like, careers and also be be able to like, these muscles to build up like this, like muscles of. Because at the end of the day, you are fully immersed in a process. You are new. You will have to interact with like, new people, new teams all the time. So I think the growth mindset, it's like key. When you talk about like blockchain technology and so on, it's like, totally. So you just have to embrace it. Like, even after like 20 years in my career, I still need to like, open all the books and just like, learn or like, interact with the others and so on. Then the other side, I would say that the communication side, so we already talked about it, but once again, I believe it's key. And when you talk about also like, the communication comes also like with the empathy. They are like work both, like hand in hand. Because when you talk about AI, a lot of people, they are scared that they will be replaced by AI or the jobs will be taken. But the communication side, the human relationship, you will never be replaced. And it's a lot about, yes, you will have an audit report that can be automatically generated by an AI, by the machine. But then how do you deliver that message? How do you position it, the angle and so on. It's about like this human, like, capabilities that they are kind of like unique. Will not be, or at least in my view, I don't think you will be. It's about like, also like this human connection. So, yeah, just like to sum up for me, the growth mindset and the communication side, they are like the key attributes of it. Yes. It's also like more like being an orchestrating, how you need to bring all the stakeholders, be between the board and the executive team or like different teams across the company and so on. So which it comes back to the communication side of does.

It's like facilitating. Right. I've always said that internal audit is perfectly positioned to facilitate positive change in the organization. Right. And it's just.

Oh, very well said. Yeah, thank you.

And it's. It's about how we do that and it's about the relationships that we build. And you were talking, you know, formal communication in informal. I think that informal communication is a huge way for us to build relationships within our organizations. Not just the formal once a year, twice a year meeting. It's. It's building those relationships around that too. So.

So hopefully, what are your takes, Tracy, on this one?

Well, obviously, communication is number one. Right. I, again, I think we can change the world with positive communication. So I think internal auditors can create magic within their organizations with their communication skills. And I know I use words like magic and getting joy in writing audit reports. And I think some people think it, you know, oh, my gosh, what is she smoking to help with that? I don't smoke anymore. I'm just gonna say that to everybody. But I, I think that what auditors do is amazing. It's such a dynamic role. It's. I mean, look at you. You're not working in your first language. You and you speak five languages. Everybody out there is working with different levels within an organization with different nationalities, working in a language that may not be their first language. And I know, you know, there are some based in, in North America who are very lucky to be only speaking English and, and writing in English. But there's a huge world out there that has to deal with some other complexities maybe. So I love the, you know, when international folks come to North America and North America gets out there in the world and we start interacting, building that global community and understanding, like you said, with empathy, right? And it's understanding what it's like for someone else in, in their shoes. And I always say, you know, think about if someone is resisting or if someone is pushing back, understand why. Understand why. Because if you can, understand why. And that takes your empathy skills and it takes your communication skills because you have to ask questions and then really listen to the answers. And that's going to help us build those bridges or mend bridges in the case of some bridges needing to be bended, right? Because not every relationship is a successful one right from the beginning. And then we have some challenges. That's enough, enough about communication. But I do think that it's so important and the technical skills like AI and blockchain and data analytics, you can learn those. You need to have a thirst to learn those, right? Curiosity to learn those that can add value with those. But, but this, I think, I think, I know. I've said being an internal auditor is just an amazing, amazing job and amazing career and you can bring so much to the rest of the world. And it ripples not just within your organization, it ripples out into the community, right? Whether you're depending what your company produces, depending on what technology or products your company can share with the world, the sustainability aspect, all of those things, it all comes into play. So audit, audit can have massive, massive positive impact in the world. If we keep getting better at what we're doing, that's a whole conversation for another time. So I'll leave that. So I just got a couple more questions for you. One of them is what advice would you give to women who aspire to be in a leadership role within the audit industry?

I think, first of all, first of all, I think you need to be aware of what you bring to the table and really do not allow anyone and anything to dull your sparkle. So be perfectly aware of your unique skills, all the traits that you bring to the table. Because at the end of the day we need to be the first one to believe in ourselves. So it's a lot of first ending. We live in a society that sometimes challenges because of intentionally or not really being aware or not. Sometimes we face these norms in these challenges and barriers either as a woman, as a professional or like our background. So I think it's important to believe in ourselves, in our capabilities and unique skills. Then I would say it's also it's super important to have your own tribe in here. I mean like your support based the people that even when you will stop because sometimes you will have moments that you don't believe in yourself but reminds you that they are like some, some very important points that you still need to kind of like this tribe to, to be there to remind you who you are, what you stand for. And that against all the, the challenges you need to keep on doing and reach your. Your brains. Absolutely. And then I think it's also like the way I see it in the business is like once you reach this leadership level, there is a saying that I really love empowered women, empower other women. And I think this ripple effect that you can have on the entire society once you reach there, I think it's super important to like sponsor and helping mentor or any other way to kind of like support like other women and also at the same time to role model in your own way. Because even when you think in the business environment or like me having the interaction with the board, it's like sometimes we need to adopt this like main approach and so on. This is what I did in earning my career because it's like, okay, these are the rules of the game. But at the same time being aware of your uniqueness, I think you can learn to do it in a different way. And this is where you will be able to change the rules at the table.

I love that. Let's change the rules of the game. Number one. So be unique, be yourself. Believe in yourself. Have a tribe. Build a tribe. That is I think part of my mission here with inspiring women in audit. And don't lose your sparkle, ladies. Yeah.

And I think what you are doing, this is a brilliant initiative. When we discussed initially I told you that I would have loved to have this at the beginning of my career. So your initiative, it's really like upstanding and I hope the positive impact and the ripple effect will be reached through this podcast. Me too.

Thank you. It's something that I wish I had as well. When I was younger, we didn't have communication training. Nobody taught us how to run a closing meeting or how to write an audit report or how to persuade people or how to get ahead or what we need to do to support each other. So I love that. And here we are. Empowered women empower women.

Right?

So with that, I have one final question for you. What legacy you hope to leave behind in the field of internal audit and what impact do you hope to have on future generations of auditors, especially women auditors?

Legacy? Yes. I think it's a topic that now that I moved like this year I will reach 40. So I think it's. And then I became also a mom a couple of years ago. So I think it's, it's a lot of like reflection that I put to what type of legacy do I want to leave behind me? So I think I would like to. And it's about not only like audit in general, and I think it's about like business, like a legacy, let's say, of like empowered women and like they believe in theirselves, like strong and knowledgeable and at the same time like achievers, but also like being able to like enjoy the journey. Because especially when I started my career, I was high achiever and just like being blind by the results. Even now I'm still like very thought driven, but at some point, like I didn't, I was not able to enjoy the journey even if I reach like the, the top and so on. So I think it's also important to, to be able to enjoy every single milestone that we reach. And then in terms of like, impact, as I said, I'm trying to roll, model to do my best every single day and just lead based on my values and the way I see things, with courage, with freedom and having this like positive impact that I bring on people in business.

I love that. Leading with courage, leading with empowerment, finding that within ourselves and having a balance as well I think is so important. And I think for some of us in our youth, we were high achievers. High achievers. High achievers. And only as we get a little bit older, just a little bit, are we realizing that having a work life balance is an amazing thing and is super helpful to your health and to your, to your, your, you know, mental health, physical health. Whether or not you have kids, right. Whether or not you're man or, or, or whatever your choice of gender is, I think that it's important for all of us to realize that and to to follow that and to seek our own freedom. So, Madeleina, I want to thank you so much for joining me on my podcast, Inspiring Women in Audit. This is a heart project for me and I very much appreciate you coming and sharing your authentic self and your heart with us on the podcast.

Thank you so much, Tracy for giving me this amazing opportunity and it was a great pleasure to share my own journey and struggles. And yes, I hope we together, we will be able to inspire women and make the world that we want to see.

That's it. We're going to change the world. Madalina, thank you so much.

One step at a time.

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