Ep 5: Leading with Passion: Rita's Power Moves

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Welcome everyone to Inspiring Women in Audit, the podcast that is dedicated to empowering and uplifting women within the internal audit industry. By amplifying their voices. We aim to encourage women in the audit profession to share their knowledge, experiences and unique perspectives. My name is Traci Marquardt and I will be your host today. And I'm super excited because joining me is my guest, Rita Perdin Nandla. And Rita is currently the Manager of Internal Audit at Angostura limited. Except that name may ring for some of you out there listening and is the current president of the Trinidad and Tobago IAEA chapter. And Rita was also the past president of the Trinidad and Tobago chapter of isaca. And to round out your credentials, we have quite a long list. You have an MBA of CCA and you're a CA CIA and you have a CISA and a CRMA designation. That's quite a list of credentials. Rita, thank you so much for joining me today and welcome to the Inspiring Women in Audit podcast.

Thank you for having me, Tracy. It's my pleasure to be on this program with you.

Super. I'm just, I'm really excited. You know, we had a pre discussion and what I'd love to do is start with, you know, your journey into internal audit. You run the audit function at Angura. You've been in the profession 20 years. So what drew you to audit and what has kept you here all this time?

Okay, very interesting. 20 years. A very long time. Right? So I did start off right out of high school in my profession. I started off in the banking industry, but not an internal audit. I started off in the retail sector and I was studying, doing my acca. And after, during that I realized that there were two modules that I particularly was interested in, the audit modules. And what made me interested was it really reflected on assurance and governance. And I found those aspects of the business very interesting. Something that I wanted to pursue. So the opportunity arose after and I applied to the internal audit department at the financial services I was working in. And that's where my journey in internal audit started. Within the first six months, Tracey I realized, whoa, I was learning so, so much. I had seven years of just retail experience before, but in six months I was able to navigate across retail, commercial, business transformation, treasury. I think the learning for me is what drew me. Learning about the holistic, having a holistic view of an entire organization. And I could see a progression path. It was rather quick for me progressing from internal auditor to audit manager within the financial services industry. And that also made me want to continue my professional career in this industry and internal audit. So what has kept me here uhast other than progressing my career? I think my passion for learning and development. Internal auditors, we are required to be all rounders. We must know a lot about everything and we must also have the technical competence to really deliver and provide advice and assurance to our stakeholders. And I think those are the things that has kept me in the profession. Continuous learning and development and networking as well. With such a wide variety of peers locally and internationally.

I, I'm totally with you on the continuous learning. Learning I would say because I meet so many auditors and all the different work that I do, the client work, the auditors that are interested in continuous learning are the ones that are the most curious, the ones that can add the most value and the ones that can really spur on the innovation. So I think that's a fabulous aspect of the industry. And can I touch on that networking that you mentioned? Because networking I find is so key to our success within the industry. And I know there's, there's some auditors that maybe just don't enjoy the act, the process of networking, don't attend conferences, like to maybe stay in their lane a little bit, get their head, you know, keep their heads down, get, get things done. Can you just expand a little bit or elaborate on the networking aspect from your perspective?

Yeah, so networking has been very pivotal to me in my career. So when I left my first job in internal audit in the banking sector, I went out on my own to leave an internal audit department, family run business. And I knew after three years, okay, I didn't have all the answers. Right. And being in a professional organization such as the IIA with a vast number of members locally, because I was in the local chapter, I was able to call on peers who had met at conferences or training, you know, to get that expert advice or assistance where needed. And immediately I saw the value of networking and I realized, okay, I need to give back also. So networking for me became something that is learned and practiced and consistently code and moved on from networking, of course, locally, to volunteering within the profession, networking globally, and of course, in my further studies as well, continuing to network with other professionals in other fields so that, you know, you broaden your horizons and you really learn a wide variety of skills and you develop your expertise differently as well so that you can contribute to your organization.

And I love that because you said, I reached out to other people that I had met and other people that were in my network. And it just, it comes from within, doesn't it? I mean, networking isn't, isn't comfortable for everyone in the beginning. And you kind of, you're putting yourself out there, but look at what you've created. Fantastic. So very, very interesting. Thank you for sharing that. And I would be remiss if we didn't talk about your service to the audit industry, which you just hinted at. You know, you've been a leader for isaca and the IAEA in some capacity for both since 2015. You've served as a president for both. Can you tell us what drives you to serve the profession? I'm wondering, what are the benefits that you see to others? Can you capture that in words and how does it make you feel? What do you get out of this whole process?

Okay, very interesting. So what drives me? My passion. I'm very passionate about my profession. I love internal audit. It has opened so many doors for me professionally. You know, learning in this type of environment, again, having access to resources, a global network, being on the edge of cutting edge technology and advancements, and that sort of evolution in terms of risks in internal audit and basic companies, those aspects has really challenged me in a good way to continuously learn and develop. And also in networking, what has really gotten to me in terms of volunteering within the profession? I want to give back. I want to give back to younger professionals. I want to ensure that they succeed. I want to actually help people learn from mistakes that I've made. Obviously, I've made many along the way and help them to navigate with a smoother process as well in terms of their career progression. So. So that's what I try to give back through volunteering. What I take from it is a personal sense of developing myself, because volunteering with both ISACA and the IAE has really devoured me in ways I would not have imagined. For instance, I've developed my marketing skills in internal audit. That's probably very rare, but I market all the chapters. I'm within the chapter. We market all that training. You learn how to new technologies, we learn how to use our brand guidelines effectively, promote the iaea, for instance. So it's quite interesting to learn and to develop professionally in areas I would not have access to in my usual professional career.

Okay, so it's giving back to the community, but it also helps you develop as well.

Definitely.

And I just want to touch on those marketing skills that you mentioned, because I work with a lot of audit teams who struggle with their relationship with a business, and I talk to them a lot about marketing, internal audit. I know there was a post on LinkedIn recently about selling internal audit. I like the word marketing. Maybe it's semantics. Have those. Is that knowledge about how to market that you've learned from volunteering also helped you with your relationship with the business?

Yes. As internal auditors, we must be advocates for our professional. Our whole internal audit month of May speaks to this. You know, how we market ourselves, how we advocate, how we continuously bring internal audit to the forefront in terms of what we can do. Because it's a lot more. We have evolved a lot more from just assurance. We provide advice, insights, expert advice. So continuously developing ourselves and marketing what the profession is about is really something that I have also learned from volunteering, more so than I would just have learned within my career.

Awesome. And so can you tell us a little bit more about the mentoring that you do? So you work through the IIA mentorship program. Right. So why is it important? And if you could touch on why it's especially important for women in the industry.

Yes. So I meant mentoring a younger professional woman is a passion of mine. It's a personal passion that I wanted to do, to give back to the profession. When I just started my journey, I had a very inspirational mentor who was a woman in my field, and she really was pivotal in helping me to navigate my early professional career with my early family commitments. And that was very difficult for me because in your early professional career, you want to accelerate and grow and develop. You want to. You don't want, you know, to be held back, so to speak. But then you have. Your women also have their inherent responsibilities and preferences in terms of family. So I also wanted to be that. And she really inspired me to think differently, you know, to more or less realize that you don't have to choose. You can have both, and you can prioritize which one matters at what time for you, and it's safe and it's okay to do that. So that was very inspirational for me. So I thought there may be others who go through similar challenges or similar sorts of dilemmas and perhaps sharing my experience, experience with them and actually assist them to make decisions or to navigate in a way that is helpful to them.

I really like that because when I look back, I don't think I had a specific mentor in my life. There were some bosses of mine, I guess you could say, who I did look up to and I learned from, but there wasn't a real mentor. So I really think that's a wonderful gift that you received and a gift that you're providing to the community. I want to ask if there's someone out there who thinks that they might benefit from a mentor. I don't want everybody just hitting up your LinkedIn messaging and saying, rita, Rita, be my mentor. Right, Because I know you have a full plate already because I know the topics that you're focusing on. But if there's someone out there who's listening to this and thinks, wow, maybe, maybe that might help me, what advice can you give them about how they should find a mentor for themselves?

Quite interesting. You mentioned LinkedIn. That's one place that I will start. Look within your networks. It can be a professional network. It can be where you are employed currently where you were previously employed. If you're a member of a professional body such as the iia, look within there. So look within your networks of persons who may have similar interests or aspirations that you think you can, that can help you. First of all though, before you do that, you must set yourself specific objectives. What do you want out of this mentorship? You know, articulating these clear objectives and sort of prioritizing them would help you to determine whether or not when you approach a potential mentor that you've selected the right person to approach. So having your objectives, looking within your network, selecting someone that you think you can work with and of course for me the biggest thing, don't be scared, go out there and ask, you know, ask approach someone. And to me that may be the biggest thing that people may fear. Okay, how do I approach this person? Be honest, be authentic, Say what you want from it, say what you are hoping to get. It's a two way relationship and another part that is value added offers something in return. You know, maybe you work on a small project for your mentor to add value to the relationship, something, but anything that you do within that relationship between your mentor and your mentee, you will learn something. So be prepared to learn Be prepared to give up yourself and be prepared to set clear objectives that you will achieve.

I'd love that advice. So for me, it comes down to, like you said, use LinkedIn, reach out to your network, and I would say join LinkedIn groups that are within the profession. Right. It's a great way to get to know people. It's a great way to interact with people. You can reach out and connect with them and then know what you want. So I think that's great advice and I hope for anyone else listening out there that they're encouraged to look for a mentor to help them if they feel like that's something that's going to help guide them in their careers and in their choices. Good stuff. All right, well, let's come back to some of your credentials. I just want to congratulate you first of all on getting your mba. I mean, what a huge accomplishment. This was from Oxford Brooks Business School. And that's out of London, right?

Yes, thank you very much. Yes, it's Oxford Brooks Business School in Oxford in the uk.

Yeah. I mean, what a huge accomplishment. I'm wondering, you know, given your background, your extensive experience, all of your work with the IIA and asaca, what drove you to choose to do an MBA at this stage?

Right. So I was always striving to learn more. But at this point in my career, I thought I want to learn differently. I want to learn business skills that can equip me in this complex world that and navigate through complex business issues as well. But I want to learn in a global mindset. I want global cares and global faculty that I can learn from. I want to learn different things that I can bring back to my organization and apply to my organization. Because I believe within there's a two way relationship between the employee and the organization. Of course I learn from my company, but I must also bring back new things for my company to learn from me. So that is also part of my responsibility to my work and part of my work ethics. So that was one big part of it. The second part in terms of choosing my MBA at that time was I wanted flexibility. It was part time. I wanted to learn mostly online and I started during COVID but I also wanted to be there physically because I believe in that networking and being there and maintaining and fostering those relationships that would really help you along your career.

I love that because I know we all, you know, made lemonade from the lemons of the COVID period. But actually being there in person is a different experience. I find it to be A richer experience. Just like going to these conferences. We all did virtual conferences. I spoke at virtual conferences, attended virtual conferences. But it's when you're in person, there's an energy and connection, connectivity that I think is harder in the remote world.

I totally agree with you. I love the in person conferences. I loved the in person classrooms as well for my mba. But you're right, that energy, that whole vibe, that experience, it's unparalleled. You can't capture that in a virtual environment. So definitely.

And for, for all those listening out there that are maybe at a, you know, a mature stage in their career, I would say, because you've been at this for 20 years, do you recommend to others to pursue a degree, a higher degree, like, like an mba and particularly does it, would it benefit women or is it just a general, general recommendation?

I would say yes, because you're always learning and growing and developing yourself and for your career. I believe MBA also positions you differently in the business environment. So many internal career, internal auditors, they also transition to other roles such as cfo, C suite roles, or even a lot of them transition into information or itc, IT security roles. And I think having the business side or the business knowledge to navigate these areas really equips you to do those transitions as well within your career. So if you are at a mature level in your career and you're thinking of transition and that's an excellent way as well. And I just mentioned the IT sector. Of course, there are studies that Show probably about 25% of women, it's the have leading jobs in this sector. And this is a fast growing, high paid sector. And yes, it's important for women to accelerate their development to participate in this sector and also shape the future of that profession as well.

Nice, thank you. And I know that as part of your studies you had a focus on sustainability and supply chain management. Can you give us some golden nuggets or talk to us about how this became your focus for your mba?

Yes. So supply chain management is, I suppose, one small aspect of how companies are integrated ESG within their organizations. And it has become necessary. Consumer driven consumers. Their studies on consumers, they're willing to pay more for sustainable products. They are demanding it. Your stakeholders are demanding it. Your shareholders, your nonprofit organizations, governments, they are instilling policies to implement these measures as well. Your partners are demanding that you make sustainable strategies within your organization as well. So because there's this focus, I thought, okay, this is one way that internal audits in my profession that I can learn, develop and contribute to my organization. So my approach in this area was really to look at, in sustainable supply chain management, look at leading organizations and best practices. What have they done, what have they done successfully, you know, what works and how can this contribute or how can we learn from this, how can we implement some of these areas, especially how can internal audit add value as well? So that was my focus.

That's interesting. And is, is, is your, your work, is it, is it published? Is it something that we can all go out and read soon?

It will be published. I'm working on it.

And again, just, you know, it goes back to what you said earlier about, you know, doing the MBA so that you can learn but it's also bringing that back to the business because, you know, Trinidad, Trinidad and Tobago, I mean for a lot of us means warm climate holiday. You know, maybe, maybe some like me are a little envious that this is where you're based out of every single day. So can you talk a little bit more about how important sustainability is to Angostura because it's such a small, you know, it's an island.

Yes.

Not like Canada, you know.

Yes. So yes, of course the thing is we're a global company so our stakeholders are global stakeholders. So we are influenced directly by what's happening globally and sustainability is on the agenda. Our suppliers, our business partners, our consumers, it's on the agenda, it's a great focus. So therefore for us it becomes one part of our mission and visual corporate sustainability within our practices. So yes, it's quite important because we are out there globally. We're not just sequestered in Trinidad, we operate from here, but we are, we have a global mindset and a global.

Business and it's such a well known brand as well. I mean it's a well established company, it's been around for over 200 years, products all over the world. I'm sure everyone listening has over a certain age has tried the product at some, at some point. So it's, I find it's a very interesting business and the global impact, you know, coming from, located, as you said, in such a small island, run from such a small place compared to the rest of the world is, is really, is really quite interesting and how the ripple effects throughout the world, you know.

Yes, indeed.

Good. Well listen, in our get to know you conversation you told me about your, that you're passionate about work, life, balance. You hinted at it a little bit in one of your other answers with we were talking about the mentor. So I'm wondering, you know how do you manage work life balance? And what does that actually look like for you? Because I, I know you do so much volunteer work, you have so many certifications. I'm wondering where, where does the word balance come in with all of those balls that you're juggling?

Okay, so work life balance is, I suppose it's personal to everyone, what their journey is and what matters to them. For me is having the right amount of time for my family, my, my personal life as well as my work, my professional career. And a key to work life balance for me is always support. You know, my family is a tremendous support. I could not have all of these things without my husband and the support of my husband directly, you know, he inspires me to do more, do better, follow my dreams. And, you know, that's the sort of support that makes work life balance sort of seamless for us, you know, but it's also setting those boundaries. So I know when it's time for my family, that's my time. You know, I can share a little story, explain Monopoly with my youngest son. He's seven, so he knows when we are together there are no folks. So I just, you know, totally forgot. I was scrolling through my phone and he said, you know, he didn't ask, you know, is there something important that you have on your phone? And it struck me, hey, this is what I've cultivated. It's important to him that we have this quality time. And it's important to me too. So, you know, normally I would ask permission and say, may I have an important call? And he would be, yes, okay, but how long? You know, because they really need your attention too. You have so much time away from your family, the dark time precious to them. So definitely support prioritizing what is important to you, making the time for it, setting boundaries and creating time for yourself. To me, what, what inspires, motivates, and really helps me to get through the day is my yoga practice. I am really into yoga. I'm an instructor and a student, and that is as a hobby that helps me maintain work life balance because it's something that I enjoy doing so much.

Absolutely. And so you do that with others or on your own. Can I ask you that detail? So if you're teaching, then you're. You're at a center or.

I teach others in my community or on my own. I practice on my own. So I do have an avid yoga practice for myself at home every evening. So that's my time. Yeah, that's my time to be. And then of course, you know, my family time is incorporated and then if there's no time, etc. Yes, yes, no.

I love that. I love that. Carving out time for yourself I think is so important, you know, whether, whether you're, no matter which parent you are in the family. I think we all need a little bit of our, our own time so that we can reflect, regenerate, figure out where we want to go next, or just decompress, you know, from the day. So yoga is a great way to do it. So that's fabulous. So if I come, can I sit in on a class?

But of course, it was welcome.

That'd be fabulous. Good stuff. All right. Can you share a lesson or wisdom gained throughout your career that maybe our audience might benefit from?

Yes. Early in my career, my mentor, which I, whom I was going to earlier, one of the first things she said to me is, be your authentic self and maintain your integrity. You are going to be faced with so many dilemmas in your career, especially as internal audit and where you sit and being true to yourself and maintaining your core values would really see you through to the end or to your career. It would really aspire, it would really inspire to do the right thing. So I keep that at the back of my head, you know, do the right thing even when no one is looking to maintain that integrity, that sense of self. Of course we have the IA standards that we adhere to, the core principles, etc. So that also supplements what you believe in and your organization's ethics and business practices. But at the end of the day, it comes down to you and your personal journey at maintaining yourself, your true self, and your authenticity.

I love that. Be authentic, maintain your integrity, and do the right thing, even when you're alone.

Yeah, that's.

That's wonderful advice. All right. Any advice that you might give women who want to rise up within the.

Profession, learn, grow, develop, seek new interests, you know, go out there, don't be, don't be scared to go out there and network. Get to know people, let people know you. I have found that volunteering is an amazing way to network because you meet so many different people. You know, when you volunteer, especially volunteering for the iae, you meet your local peers within the profession, regionally, internationally, when we attend conferences, etc. You network with so many professionals. It's important for you to be fit and it also creates the focus forum where other people can listen to you and share your views and you can have an impact as well. So you not only receive, it's a two way Network where you communicate and you receive as well. So definitely love that.

I love that. I see just a real, you know, theme through how you approach your answers to my questions is, you know, continuous learning. And, and in. In, I would you. To paraphrase back to you, I would say it's about taking action, and it's about having the courage to, to take action. The courage to reach out and ask for a mentor, the courage to, you know, join. Join LinkedIn groups and, and to. To make, even just to make posts on LinkedIn and to talk to people about what our perspective is, I think is a great way for women to be heard. Good stuff. All right, so then we come to the grand finale question. Oh, what legacy do you hope to leave in this wonderful field of internal audit that we work in? And what impact do you hope to have on future generations of internal auditors, especially women?

I wonder if I should consult me. So my legacy, I mean, it's just the legacy of my integrity. It's my personal brand. That's. That's what you have. You know, you can work through different careers, different industries, but the legacy that you want to leave is one of authenticity and integrity, because that's who you are. I want people to, well, remember me when you speak of legacies, remember me for just who I am. There's. This is who I am. You know, this is my passion, internal audit. I've chosen this profession, and I really enjoy it. I love contributing. I love collaborating with, with my colleagues to work on difficult projects, to work through different issues. I love that I have grown to enjoy networking as well. I told you initially it was a learned skill, but I do enjoy it because there's so much richness that you derive from networking, so many relationships that, that you build. That's really important to help you when you need, you know, advice or when you think, okay, you're the only one in this situation, or even when you feel, you know, you know, a lot of people, they talk about imposter syndrome and they feel maybe they're not worthy or they're not able to contribute in a meaningful way. And talking through these issues can actually help you, you know, and give you that confidence as well.

You know, that whole imposter syndrome, I think, is key, not just for women, but I do know that there are a lot of women who are sitting in the room who feel like they might be an imposter. And if you're one of those women out there, I would like to encourage you to just throw that belief right out the door. Yeah. You wouldn't be in the room if you didn't have something of value to contribute. And I think we all need to just get rid of those old beliefs and focus on, you know, where can we unvalue. And by continuously learning and by raising our voices, the value will be evident to the, to them personally and into the rest of the world, if that makes sense.

I totally agree with that. Yes, I totally agree with that approach. I think it cannot be emphasized enough. I also believe that there's women professionals that you can actively seek your career path, use the resources available to you within your career. There are many resources offered by the iae. There are many streams of learnings. There are many ways that you can differentiate yourself within the industry. And as you mentioned, don't be scared to seek out a mentor, someone to help you. That's why people love to do that. They love to give back because it has been done in their career. You know, it's a cycle of giving back and helping each other as well.

Yeah. So it's, it's, it's standing up and believing in ourselves and then putting out a helping hand to others to see how we can assist in their growth. And that's all going to make a difference.

I totally agree with that.

Rita, thank you so much for joining me. It's been such a pleasure and I look forward to coming down to one of your conferences one day, I hope, and, and checking, checking things out on the ground there and networking in person and finally meeting you in person. So thank you for joining me and we'll see you soon.

Thank you very much. Tracey. Thank you for having me and for chatting with me and allowing me this forum to share my views and my thoughts. I do appreciate it and the work that you are doing to inspire women in Audit. Thank you so much.

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