Achieving Podcasting Success With Carolyn Kiel of the Beyond 6 Seconds Podcast

Podcast hosts are becoming the center of influence faster through podcasting than any other marketing method. Authority magazine columnist, buzzfeed contributor, and Feed you'd Brand. Podcast host Tracy Hazard interviews top podcast influencers about their podcasting tips and tactics so you can follow their lead. Let's explore the center of influence together. Here's your host, Tracy Haz.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Feed you'd Brand. I'm Tracy Hazzard, and I have another great center of Influence podcaster to bring you today. I'm bringing you Carolyn Keel, and I love it when I get a referral to someone who should be on my show, a new guest who's referred from another guest. That's the biggest compliment ever. And it's also your biggest source of guests. I hear that again and again as I do the center of Influence interviews. So thinking about that, that's how Carolyn came to me. She came to me from someone who we've interviewed before here on center of Influence from Scott Carson. And the thing about it is, when you have a great rapport with someone on the show, you also have them get a sense of what your show's about, and that's when these referrals become an even better fit. So I'm so excited to have Carolyn on because she has a show called Beyond 6 Seconds, but she's also a little bit different than the other podcasters that we've been interviewing because it's not her day job, but it's not actually intended to be. She did this for fun. She did this because it interested her. She did it because she was excited to listen to other people's stories and to do interviews and to push herself. So I want you to hear all about that, but first, let me tell you a little bit more about Carolyn. Carolyn Keel is an experienced training and talent development leader based in New Jersey. She helps global companies prepare their employees to succeed in changing business environments. She hosts the Beyond 6 Seconds podcast, where she shares extraordinary stories of everyday people from all around the world. Carolyn interviews entrepreneurs, creators, and other leaders about their candid and inspiring stories, the challenges they faced, the ups and downs in their journeys, and how they've achieved their goals. You can listen to beyond six Seconds and check it out for yourself. I have really enjoyed listening to it because it does. It goes a little bit deeper. Carolyn's questions are really interesting. So let's hear more from Carolyn Keel.

Carolyn, thanks so much for joining me. So glad to see you again. We just saw each other a couple days ago.

I know. Yeah, it's just a Couple days ago. And it's great to be here and great to see you again.

So you've been podcasting quite a while. You've done quite a lot of episodes. And, you know, we met people this weekend at the she podcast event that were newbies, just started their show, been podcasting for five years. Did you feel like you were, you know, in amongst the group that knew what she was doing?

Yeah, I've been podcasting for almost two years now, and while certainly there are people who have been podcasting for many years, more than that, I still feel like I'm more on the veteran side than the rookie side, if I had to pick a side. But, yeah, I guess, you know, I've learned so much. It's been like most podcasters, I've taught myself as I go along, as I build the show, and really learned quite a lot since I started.

Well, I like to start with the place where you first said, this podcasting thing is for me. When did that happen for you? And what was going through your mind at the time?

See, so it was a conversion of a couple of different things. I discovered podcasting, I guess, relatively late in the game, which was 2018, sort of in the middle of the year, when one of my friends found an episode of Malcolm Gladwell's Revisionist History that she really enjoyed, and she shared it with my singing group, because I was actually in a singing group at the time, and it was about one of the songwriters of a song that we were performing. So I listened, and I, at that point, just started listening to his other podcasts and then just started discovering the world of podcasting, that there were so many shows out there that were available. And, you know, since I was a singer and I had that background, and I had wanted to start a creative project that was something like writing or singing or speaking or just creating some interesting content for people. I decided to say, you know, I know a little bit about recording software because I did it as part of my singing group when I was managing their website years ago. So I've got that to start. You know, maybe I could try podcasting. That would be cool. I could interview my friends about the cool things that they're doing, and, you know, we'll just sort of see how it goes. So I had a couple friends who I knew were doing really interesting things, and I decided to ask them if they wanted to be interviewed by me. And you recorded it, and, you know, those were the first six episodes or so were my friends. And then it just started to take off. From there. I love that.

So you weren't really intimidated by the microphone in front of you or any of those things because you had that singing background and you know, your voice, the resonance of your voice shows that you have had some theatrical training of some kind. I can I hear it in your show? Like, there's a very distinct difference from those who have no breathing training. Like, that's how I would explain it. Right. You don't know how to breathe from your diaphragm and those that do. And whether it's broadcasting training or singing training, it serves you well because it helps with the tone of your voice.

All right, thank you.

Yeah. So, you know, but you had to have at some point said, okay, I'm in this, I like this. I think I'm going to go for this. How am I going to develop my show? Like, what is it going to be about? And so at some point you made the decision that you were going to go into this beyond six seconds, which I really like the strategy and the thought process that went into it and what you say about your show at the beginning of every single show in your intro, about six seconds. And tell us a little bit about how that part came about for you.

So the beyond six seconds part, it's interesting. The name of the show was one of the last things that I was coming up with. It was almost the final thing that was kind of keeping me from launching. I was pretty good at putting everything else together and getting things else moving. But I said, what am I going to call this show? And at first was talking, as I mentioned, with a lot of my friends. They were on my first few episodes and many of them had achieved amazing things. But at the time they're looking to make career changes or they were looking for jobs. They were some of them unemployed or underemployed at the time. And I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn, which is where I met a lot of them, because it's very business to business and professionals are on there. And I came across this study finding that said that recruiters only look at your resume for about six seconds before they make a judgment on your skills and your abilities with your resume. So either you get advanced to the next round of the job interviews or you get distorted. And, you know, I really didn't know how valid this survey was, but it was something that was talked about a lot at the time on LinkedIn and other social media. So I said, you know, I want to go beyond those six seconds, whether it's six or A different number. We make those first impressions when we see people and we meet people in a couple seconds. And a lot of times, you know, we never know what their amazing stories are, what they're going through, what they've overcome, what their goals are. So I was interested to just spend a little more time and dig deeper and learn more about what people have really overcome. Because it's just amazing what I learn from people, what they're able to accomplish and do in their lives despite challenges and obstacles and all things like that.

Well, I think their numbers actually probably a little bit high now in our digital world. Like less of a six second attention span because we used to say you had seven seconds on a product shelf. So if you were walking through the Target or Walmart or something like that, you had seven seconds to catch their eye. Now when you're talking about flipping through your phone, it's faster than that. So LinkedIn profiles, you're like spinning through those things.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, so, yeah, so. But I love the premise of that and I think that you really do that well, where you dive in deeper about what's making them tick, what makes them unique. How have you found like getting guests over time? Has that shifted for you because you went outside of the circle of your friends? Has it gotten easier and easier for you?

It has, it's. As I mentioned, I started within my circle of friends and relatively quickly, I'd say by even episode five or seven, I started to get referrals from my listeners, which was amazing. You know, when you're first starting a show, you don't always have a listener base built in. But I was sharing my episodes on social media and my people in my first connection network would see them and say, oh, you know, I liked your show. You know, I have this friend who has a really great story to tell. I think you really, she would be great on your show. And at that point I'd say, okay, yeah, that's great, because I didn't have a huge pipeline at that time. So I wound up meeting a lot of people and talking with them on my show who were referred by my listeners. And then my guests who were going on started to refer me to other guests. So several of the guests I've had on have been referred by past guests, which I take is a big compliment for my show.

That's a very big compliment.

Yeah, they're like, this is a good show to be on. So I think that's awesome. And at the same time, I do get outreaches. You know, I get the cold outreaches that I think a lot of podcasters get, whether they're from publicists or, you know, or even just people in my extended network that I can tell wrote, they listened to the show, they wrote a personal note and said why they'd like to be on the show. So I've met people through that as well. And it's not just on LinkedIn. It's on Instagram. I actually have my first, you know, celebrity interview who. She connected with me on Instagram, and we started DMing there, and she was on my show. And, you know, it's just. I think I've met people almost anywhere. I met one CEO of a company. His staff reached out to me on Twitter and wanted to be interviewed. So, you know, you can't focus on every single platform, but it helps to have a presence, you know, wherever you can so people can find you.

So it's not your day job podcasting. So what is?

So my day job is that I work for a large telecom company in New Jersey, and I am a corporate training program manager, which means that I occasionally facilitate and teach training, but I am the person who basically project manages and puts together training programs specifically for one of the departments at the company that's very specific to their needs. So it's a lot. It could be anything from technology training to how processes work inside of the department to digital trends and other industry trends and things like that. So I'm not always teaching, but I do a little bit from just understanding what people need. How do I find the resources to put together the training, whether that's working with different training vendors and providers or other people inside the company, and then making sure it gets delivered and measuring the progress. So that's how that all ties together.

What do your co workers think of you as a podcast host?

It's funny, you know, at first when I started at work, I really didn't talk about it that much. I was trying to keep it separate. But then as it started to grow and as I was posting about it on social media, you know, it started to get out more. So I think it's kind of cool. So it's funny. I'll be sitting at work, doing my work, and one of my co workers who, you know, maybe I don't talk to every day, we don't work together, but she'll lean over and say, hey, I listened to your podcast yesterday. I'm like, wait, what? How did you know I have a podcast? So. But it's funny. And that's the point is That I would say for podcasters, you don't always know the extent of your reach. You don't know who's listening to you. And the people who listen to you don't always comment or like or share. So you probably have a much bigger audience than you realize.

When did it feel successful to you? When did you feel like, wow, I'm doing this and it feels good and I need to keep going?

Oh, I don't know if I can point to a specific point in time, but it was probably, you know, maybe some point in the middle of last year. I mean, one big validation for me was to have someone who's considered someone of a media celebrity reach out to me and say, you know, I think your show would be a great match for what I'm doing. And then when I started to work with, you know, not always the guests themselves, but with their people, so, like, their publicists and their staff would come, that was kind of something that was very different for me. So I feel like, oh, well, this is someone who, you know, invest with the staff to make sure that everything sounds right and kind of helps them with their schedule and helps them get set up from there. I think that was a big turning point. And then, of course, when I started getting more detailed feedback. So recently I had one of my previous guests who's offered to connect me with other guests who would be a good match for my show. And he'll ask me first, like, would you like to be introduced? I said, of course. So then he'll email me. And the things he would write about me was like, this is, you know, Carolyn is one of the best interviews I've ever done on a podcast, and you should be. I'm like, wow, okay. It's like, I didn't tell you to write that, but that's awesome. And so, I mean, that means a lot to me because I also started this podcast to get better at interviewing and better at listening and better at asking people questions. So it seems like I'm achieving that, at least in some sense. You've accomplished that.

How wonderful. Yeah. So that's. That's really great. And, you know, did you go out there and say, I'm going to listen to other shows. I'm going to watch this. I'm going to try to model this type of interview tactics. Did you go and train yourself seeing your trainer? So did you go and train yourself and say, how am I going to get better at this? Or did you just go for it and kept seeing what was working?

You know, I Listened to some podcasts. I got a sense of the style that I liked, and the idea came together very quickly in my head in terms of what I wanted it to sound like, how I wanted it to be structured. And I pulled on my previous training as a trainer. I also have a master's degree in Industrial Organizational Psychology. So part of my coursework was, you know, a course on coaching. So how do you ask good questions? How do you practice active listening? So I drew on my previous education and training and started to bring it forward in podcasting because I figured that would be pretty good for interviewing. And then I'm also a planner. So when I first started, I would very much write out all the structure for all the questions I wanted to ask. But at the same time, I wanted to challenge myself and say, like, listen, do not just, like, read these questions down the line like they're there in case I blank out and totally forget about something. But I just, you know, try to go with the flow of the conversation. And then maybe I'll ask questions in a different order or I'll ask more questions or rephrase them or skip some. But I, you know, I do a combination of a little bit of structure, but a lot of, you know, sort of loosely playing within the structure.

Oh, I love that you said that. Because that's the one thing that I coach all my clients on and I practice is I don't actually write the question out in question format, because if you write it out in question format, you're more likely to read it. But so if you put it in bullet point, like, I want to ask about this, and you make a bullet point kind of thing, then you won't actually read it. And so. But it will refresh your memory in case you go blank, which is, you know, it happens to all of us. Some distraction happens right before your interview, and you can't think of anything but that. So it happens to the best of us.

So if anyone doesn't know already from the way that I do this, that I typically listen to the shows. So I listened to Carolyn's show when she first put her appointment in my calendar, and I always listen to the first episode, any episode that says something about shifting or pivoting the show or says, you know, we're going to change things up, like, anyone that says that, and then I pick an early episode and a later episode to listen to. And so that way I kind of get a broad brush of how your show has changed over time, too. And so, like, I get a sense of how it's grown. So one of the earlier episodes I listened to, although it wasn't super early, but it was like, within this first 30 or 40 episodes, was a show that you did on Cryptocurrency Simplified. And I was like, this is a complex subject which I happen to know something about, because I have podcasts on Blockchain and Cryptocurrency. And you asked great questions and emphasized the right things when she would speak. And so it shows a lot of prep. It shows a lot of research into it, because I can't imagine you knew a lot about cryptocurrency before you got started.

Yeah.

And so then when I listened to one of your more recent episodes, the same thing, like, you know, she was talking about nonprofit spaces and other things, and, you know, you don't exactly work in that either, but it showed the same thing. So do you. How much time do you spend researching and taking a look at the backgrounds or the information that's provided by your guest?

Let's see if I. Assuming that I don't know the person already and have that background in my head, I will spend, you know, at least an hour, maybe up to two hours. It's interesting. I'll start looking at, you know, if the guest sends me something, like media sheets or anything about, like, bios, I'll look at that. I'll read that. A lot of times, I'll go out to their website and sort of read through to get a sense of how they describe themselves on the website, what sort of services they offer, if that's the type of business that they do. You know, sometimes I'll go out to social media, and then occasionally, because I'm always looking for a story angle. So if I'm not finding that story, if it's sort of a. You know, depending on how they present themselves on their website, sometimes I'll look for them if they're interviewed on another podcast or if they're on a YouTube video or if they've written a blog that's a little more personal. And I'll read or listen to a couple of those until I get it in my head. I'm like, okay. I get, like, these are certain points in their lives that I want to ask about, because I know that there's a good story in there. I kind of get to the point where it's like, all right, I know which types of information I want to touch on, and then I'll kind of sketch out my interview questions a very high level, like, touch on this point and ask this type of question. So from there, I have that preparation where a lot of times I'll sort of, you know, lead my guests into the questions, like, oh, tell me about, you know, this particular experience. And I'm asking because I know it's a good story, and I'm kind of hoping that that will pull out and come out from there. But other times they tell, yeah, a little bit. It's like, hey, remember? But other times they'll surprise me, and there's, you know, a lot of times I'll learn things that they haven't shared anywhere else. Many of my guests, which is a big honor for me, have come on my show and told their stories for the very first time ever, anywhere publicly, which is just incredible. And a lot of times they, for some reason, don't think that their stories are interesting, but they're like, the most interesting and amazing, inspiring things for me and for my listeners. So.

Oh, that's fantastic. Now, you said when you were looking to start a show or start do something different, right? You wanted to go out and try something. You thought about writing. You have done some writing since the podcast. So did that lead to it? What did the podcast lead you to? Doing other things.

So here's the irony of that. One of the reasons I decided to try podcasting, besides all the ones I mentioned before, was that I was trying to write blogs, and I was trying to journal and just write more. And I would write maybe for like a day or two, and then just get writer's block and abandon it or get busy or whatever, and I could not stick to it. It's like, oh, if I do podcasting that I won't have to write. Maybe it'll be easier. And then, of course, many podcasters know that the irony of that is that writing is still extremely important when you're podcasting, you know, for SEO and, you know, digital purposes and also for content repurposing. So, fortunately, I enjoy writing. It just tends to take me a while.

It takes everyone a while, even real writers, let me tell you so.

Well, that's good to know. Yes. Sometimes it's like, wow, this is. Yeah, it's definitely a process. But, yeah, I still really like to have opportunities to write. I don't write as much as I podcast, of course, but a lot of the podcasting opportunities I've had have given me inspiration and new ideas and new opportunities to write. And I'm actually in the process of working on an article for the sort of industry trade publication for trainers and talent development professionals. To write an article for their monthly magazine about how podcasting can help trainers. So kind of looking for those intersections that are unusual based on my experience is kind of a sweet spot in terms of how to think of good content to write and share.

So you saw my talk or you saw what it was about. So you know that I'm always trying to find the intersection between influence and authority here. So what types of authority? Things have happened to you? Speaking events and like this article that you're going to be writing. What has your podcast afforded you?

Let's see. So, I mean, gosh, well, first of all, I've met people that I probably never would have met and who probably never would have talked to me under any other circumstance. Because I know from my previous times, I've changed my own career about six or seven years ago. So I know the experience of just trying to network and trying to find people to listen to you and talk with you and spend time with you. And from a job search perspective previously, a lot of times people are busy and it's really hard to kind of get in the door because it's hard to demonstrate that value. You're kind of like asking for a favor. But when you're a podcaster and you've got a show and a platform, suddenly like, here comes everybody who wants to come on. And even if you find someone that you really admire or that you think has a great story, most of the people that I've approached have been extremely supportive and have said yes and would want to be on my show. And then again, just having guests on my show, they've connected me to their friends. So I'm, I'm continuing to build that network and community. That's something I want to extend, is build more of a community of listeners so they know more of each other. But for me, I've had wonderful follow up conversations with a lot of my guests who are interested in continuing a relationship and sharing information. Whether they're starting a podcast or they're helping me meet new people and learn new things, that's a big part as well. And it's also kind of given me the courage to just ask for things that I want. Because know, this is not my bread and butter. So if I go ask big celebrity guests to be on and they ignore me or they say no or whatever, like, you know, who cares? Like I asked and that's really cool. And then once in a while one will say yes, and that's amazing. So I've had that experience as well. And it just As a podcaster, it helps build your confidence, but one in podcasting, but two, in other areas of my life as well, to say, like, you know, if you don't ask, you don't get. So go for what you're looking for. And the worst that can happen is that they say no or just don't respond, and that's not the answer. End of the world.

That's wonderful. I really think that that such a great way to look at authority is like, I built community, I'm building network, I'm building that. That's a different level of authority, and it's personal for every single different podcaster and every single show as to what their goals are. But I think there's always that surprise of, wow, this was not as hard as I thought it was to create this kind of community or build this kind of network. So every time I get someone onto the center of influence, I like to ask them the same five questions, because we want to make sure that everybody else out there can have some tips on these different things. So from your experience, what are some of the best ways to book great guests?

You know, it helps as a podcaster, even if you have a lot of people coming to you who want to be on your show who are sort of coming to you, you should still have an idea of types of guests that would be a really good match for your show. So I know, you know, there are a lot of really desirable guests who are sort of big stretch goals for some podcasters. But, you know, like Seth Godin is one. I have. I've had a couple of podcaster friends who have had him on the show, and it's amazing. But if your show's not about that or, you know, if you don't have sort of a connection, whether it's in spirit or in ideas, with a guest like that, it may not make sense to sort of go for the big names. And plus, there's so many different talented people who, you know, could be good guests for your show. So I definitely recommend just one. Knowing who would be a good guest for your show and what kind of value they can provide to your audience or what sorts of value you're looking for for an audience, and then, you know, reaching out. It's so easy to find people these days, even people who are celebrities, and certainly anyone who's working in a corporate setting. I mean, if you go on LinkedIn or, you know, even Instagram or Twitter, any. Any social media platform, you can get pretty close to, I think almost anyone in corporate or Anyone, you know, solopreneur or entrepreneurs and such. And those are sometimes the best ways to get in touch with them. You know, just reaching out to them there. I recommend just being mindful and thinking about who can provide the best value for your listeners and your audience and going and targeting people from there as guests.

What about ways to increase listeners? What are some of the best ways you've found to increase listeners?

Well, in the beginning, I would always ask my current listeners and my friends and family to, you know, to listen and to share episodes. Again, recommend sharing episodes on social media whenever possible. It's great to have sort of like a call to action or question that your listeners can answer, whether it's in the text of the audio of the episode or whether you're asking it on social media to engage people and get them to comment on your post. And then of course, the more they comment, the more it shows visibility and gets through people's extended networks, the different social media sites. So that helps extensions as well. And then, you know, word of mouth works as well. So even going on the offline world and as you're, you know, if you're working in spaces that have even something a little bit to do with podcasting or the topic of your podcasting, talking about it, having that quick, you know, 30 second or even 10 second pitch to reel people in, because the average person is kind of fascinated by the concept of podcasting. It's like people are now becoming familiar with it, but they're like, oh, cool. Like, I know a podcaster. I've never met anyone who in real life who does that for real. So people are intrigued by that. So it's great to be able to have that quick, you know, 10 second hook and then to talk more in a clear and compelling way to explain what you're looking for. And then, you know, I've even had people hand me over their phones and showed them like, where Apple podcasts or.

Google Podcasts help me find it. Exactly. What is this?

It's like, oh, I'll show you. Here it is. Subscribe. So, yeah, so those are some good ways that I found listeners and expanded my reach.

Well, I love that because I find that so the case, especially with some starter podcasters. They're like afraid to mention it out there.

I'm like, tell everybody about your show.

Like, that's the fastest and easiest way to get somebody to subscribe. Yeah, I love that. Well, how do you produce it in a professional way? You said you weren't afraid of the mic and everything. But that there's a lot more production that goes into a podcast. So how do you go about producing it in a professional way?

When I was starting my show, which was actually. So the show started in early 2018, so it was actually early or late 2017. I was doing a lot of research and just trying to understand, first of all, what kind of equipment I needed. And really, with podcasting, there's no definite. You need to get these exact pieces of equipment, this exact microphone. But I did some research and I picked out a professional microphone that I invested in. That's been a great investment. I'm still using that same mic almost two years in. I happen to have a mixer, which I don't think everyone needs, but I like it because it lets me fine tune the levels and gives me easy access to the volume and all the different levels. And I can plug in different devices depending on how my guests are connecting with me for the interview. I tried out different platforms for online and remote interviewing. All my interviews are remote done over the Internet right now. So at first I was using Skype, but then I switched to Zoom because for me that just had a better connection and better audio quality.

Most of us have done that.

That's what I figured. Yeah, exactly. And then I also use Audacity for recording. Even if I'm recording in Zoom, I. I do a backup recording in Audacity because I'm still like a little paranoid that something's not gonna work.

Sounds like something might have happened there at one point.

That's like I'm waiting for it. It's like, you know, I really. I feel better if I had two things recording, so that might be a little overkill. I'm a big fan of Audacity because that's the software that I had taught myself years ago when I was managing my acapella group's website. Like back in the day before there was like easy ways to upload and edit mp3s. Like now it's really easy, but back then you had to like cut up the file and then upload the file clip separately and then link it in. So I learned how to do that. So it's like, oh, you know, I might as well just use this software that I already know how to use and see if it works out for me. And. And so far that is working really well for me. And then production, I give my guests instructions or coaching beforehand as far as how I would like them to connect so that they have the best audio quality. It doesn't always work, you know, Sometimes.

You get someone who's in an echoey room and you can't do anything about it.

Or like there's like they just can't connect on zoom for whatever reason. Like that one time that you need them to. So they have to call in on the phone which is like, oh, that's not as good audio quality. But I just go with it. It's like if it's really an interesting person, like I'll try to fix as much as I can with the production at the end. Even though, you know, getting good sound is the best way to ensure a good quality is recording that good sound in the first place. There's only so much editing and production can do. And then. Yeah, and then from there I do all the, I guess the production or the editing in terms of, you know, adding the intro and the ending and sort of cutting and editing the timing of the interview and trying to cut out some of the ums and ahs. Although I've been leaving some in because it's, you know, it sounds a little too robotic if you take them all out. At least for mine.

I agree. There's certain ones that you should leave in. I agree with you. Yeah, we try not to make it sound robotic at the end. You don't want it to sound like, you know, like when you run somebody's song through it and it's totally up. Oh, it's totally digital at the end of it. Right.

Like it is.

There's hardly any human left.

Right. Like it's auto tuned or almost something like that. So yeah, and then I'll just sort of listen to the flow and I kind of have a good sense. Sense of like kind of I can hear the emotion in the voice and what people are talking about. And I don't know, maybe because I'm a vocalist and a singer, I really like to hear the way that people's tonality and sentence structure and speech patterns change. Like I'll notice if I have a guest and I'll ask them like, you know, the sort of basic, you know, something that tell me about yourself. But it's something that they've talked about several times so they have that pitch prepared so it'll come out very smoothly and then I'll ask them about a really emotional story and then the total voice pattern changes and you get more of those sort of ums and filler words. But I leave that in because I think that's beautiful. Like, I don't know, I'm just kind of obsessed with sound and how vocal Modulation changes. And I think podcasting has a great ability to convey emotion and connection and truth through audio and through words and through human voice. So I definitely like to amplify that. And, yeah, I do have an editor who will help me with the volume and the levels to kind of clean it up, mainly because I just. That takes me even more time, and I'd rather outsource that part to make sure it's optimized for sounding good, you know, good levels for podcast. But in terms of all the creative production, I do that up front, so.

That'S how that usually. And about how long does that take? All of that for you per episode?

Gosh. Well, it used to take me a very long time, and then I realized that it's like, I cannot spend eight hours editing one episode. It's not gonna work out. So I cut it down. I became, like, less of a perfectionist about it, so I let myself go. I actually do sort of two passes. I'll do one pass where I'm sort of cutting, you know, making decisions, listening and making the creative decisions as far as what gets cut and what gets added and blended together. Then I'll go through one more pass just to listen and make sure I haven't, you know, missed anything and that it still sounds good altogether as one unit. And then I'll usually send it to the editor to make sure that the levels are good and. And that's helpful if I have. If the guest winds up calling in on the phone or their sound quality isn't quite as good as mine. My editor's pretty good at trying to get it at least improved better. So I try to have the best listening experience for my listeners whenever I can.

So just for all of you listening out there, when you go to check out beyond six seconds, make sure you listen to it. Carolyn, because of the way she's doing it, she's making creative choices. She's also selecting a little segment that she plays right at the very beginning about that's a quote from her guest. And you hear it in the guest's voice, and you hear what they're saying, and it sets the tone for a lot of what's going to come and follow. And so it teases you into it and excites you about the episode. And not everyone's capable of doing that because of the way that they produce their shows. And, you know, many people do straight live streams or other things like that. So it's a different way and different process, but this is a slightly more creative production value. That you're adding by doing that little snippet at the beginning. And it does add a lot to the production value of the show overall. So it sets a professional tone. Great.

Thank you. That was something that I definitely knew I wanted from the very first episode. It's like, I want, like, literally me, because at the beginning of every episode you'll say, like, today I'm beyond six seconds. And then there's that clip that I'll pick, which also is during the second pass, I'll listen for that sound bite that's sort of a 20ish seconds long or so. I'd be like, okay, that's it, that's the one. And I'll cut it out and I'll save it for later and put it in the intro and. But I'm getting good at recognizing sort of what would be a good clip. That's the tone. And I like it because I didn't really realize that a lot of podcasts don't do that. I mean, some do, but it is kind of different.

Usually it's a more heavily produced or outside produced show and not an indie one. And so that's where I think, where it sets you apart a little bit. But what I do find is that a lot of times when somebody is leaving that creative choice up to their editor, for instance, it's not a good choice. It's always a better choice if the host is making those decisions. And there's a very distinct difference between that. So kudos. I think you're producing in a really professional way and everyone should take a listen out there. And she set a nice bar and you guys should catch up and check it out. So anyway, so we talked a little bit about the first thing that we go about, the best ways to encourage engagement. And you mentioned social media as a way that you ask questions and other things. What's your favorite social platform and where do you encourage and receive the most engagement?

My most common social platform is LinkedIn. I think there's a couple reasons for that. One is that before I started my podcast, I had spent a lot of time, I'd say many years really building my network and being active on there, posting, commenting on other people's posts and trying to get to know some of my connections in my network. There are people I'm connected to that I don't know. Most of us who are on LinkedIn, I think, but many of them, it's just such a great opportunity to meet people on a professional level. And I know maybe a lot of podcasters don't think about LinkedIn, because I think a lot of people still think of it as a place to park your resume or place to go when you're looking for work or you're trying to recruit. But in the past couple years, LinkedIn, they're trying to compete with the Facebooks and the Instagram, so they're launching live video streams and more graphics, and you can put videos there. And it's a lot of entrepreneurs and freelancers and business people. And because I interview a lot of entrepreneurs and freelancers and business people, that's where those are, where my people are. So I get a lot of engagement there. And I have people who are a small group of loyal fans who are always very vocal about liking commenting, sharing my posts. A lot of them are previous desks. Others are just fans of the show or friends of previous deaths. So. Plus other people who are seeing those links, maybe not engaging, but I'll get direct messages on LinkedIn from people who have seen those posts. You know, they haven't interacted with them, but somehow it got all the way out to their network. And even though I'm not connected to them, they'll reach out to me, connect, and usually ask me a question about the episode, or maybe they want to be a guest, or they just want to learn more about podcasting. So that's really my biggest community. I don't know that it would work well for every single podcaster, but if you have anything that has anything to do with business or entrepreneurship or anything like that, LinkedIn is a great place.

Well, and, you know, this is the thing. So Carolyn and I met because you were on Scott Carson's. I think you were on a show, right? You were watching it, and I was on. And so I say on there that if someone wants to actually get the real me, that they go to LinkedIn. Like, I say that very regularly when people, you know, you can reach out to me anywhere on social media, but if you want to get the real me, where I actually check it pretty much every day, it will be on LinkedIn. And so you listen to that, and that shows a sign of good research. And that's where you reach out to me. And look at that. You're now on my show. So, you know, so there you go. That, you know, that's also something that, when you're researching, I guess that's a great way to do that as well. So great. I love that. I love that that's the platform that you chose. I think it's a really good Fit for you.

Great. Yeah, absolutely.

So you gotta be starting to. Since we just went to she podcast, you gotta be starting to think about, like, is there, am I gonna monetize this? What am I gonna do about it? Have you thought about maybe what might be the best way for you?

Gosh, you know, I really go back and forth and I'm sure other podcasters experience this and probably other artists and creatives and musicians or people who do sort of creative things like this as a side hustle or a hobby is that almost everyone will start asking them, like, oh, so do you make money off of that? Well, why don't you make money off of that? When are you going to make money off of that? Why are you doing this if you can't make money off of that? And it's a little maddening for someone who considers themselves an artist or, you know, or creative, say, like, but I just started this because I wanted to have fun and talk to people, you know, and.

But now.

And that question comes up a lot. So honestly, I'm still thinking about it. So after going to she podcast, yeah, I'm learning a lot of creative and alternate ways to monetize a podcast, potentially, because people always go to, you know, either sponsorships or selling advertising. But if you're a smaller show, that's not as easy or there aren't as many, like, easy, obvious opportunities sitting out there. But there are other ways to use podcasting to sell other products or services that you might have or, you know, leverage it into paid speaking gigs or just really using your podcast to achieve your goals. So, you know, one sort of alternate reason I started the podcast was to put myself out there more so that I could find more opportunities for myself. And I wasn't sure at first, like, what that meant. You know, was it career opportunities? Was it just networking opportunities to meet new people and learn new things and speak on different stages? But I think that's what I'm taking away now is that I don't know if I'll turn this podcast into a money making machine, but I would like it to be an opportunity making machine, at least for me and my guests and certainly for my listeners who are able to learn more from what my guests are sharing. So I'm still processing. I've only been back probably about 48. God, it's only been like 48 hours or so. It seems like such a whirlwind.

We need to absorb some more first before we can, you know, distill it down into something. But I love the Idea of an opportunity making machine. And I think that's probably a really good fit for your type of show too, because that's what all those, all the people on your show are looking for too. Right? They're looking to get beyond the six seconds to. They're a bigger opportunity to getting people to know them better.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

So that's a great fit. So you mentioned before that you had some celebrities on. Do you have a big get that you'd like in the future that you haven't been able to tap yet, that maybe we tag them, maybe they see it. Maybe one of our guests, one of our readers know.

Yeah. So my big dream guest is Brandon Stanton. And you may not know him by his full name, but he is Brandon behind Humans of New York or Honey. So I, you know, I've been following him for years, I think, really since he started posting the pictures with the stories and the captions. And I've heard him interviewed on Tim Ferriss podcast a little while ago where he does talk about his story. And it's amazing because, you know, a lot of us, we just see the end product. We're like, oh, honey, it's like everywhere. And look at all these amazing things that he's doing. And he's, you know, he's going to these different places and sharing stories and he's raising money for charities and to support people and he's, you know, bringing a human connection and he's writing books. But he has a credible story where he, he was in the corporate world and he forgot if he either got laid off or got fired, but that job ended and he literally just didn't know what to do. And he started saying, well, I want to learn how to be a photographer. And he was not a photographer, but he just sort of started literally wandering around the streets of New York and taking photos and getting over that awkwardness of asking strangers if he can take their photos. And anyone who's spent time in the New York City metro area knows that it's unusual to walk up to strangers and try to stop them when they're rushing off somewhere.

Not in New York.

Yeah, not in New York. So that was his training ground. And it's just, I love that trajectory of story about how you really can, you know, it's like being a podcast. We don't go to podcasting school, most of us, or have podcasting degrees. It's literally like, all right, here's this thing I want to do. I don't really know how to do it, but I'LL just take it step by step and I'll fumble around and I'll be uncomfortable and I'll try things and I'll get better and better and better. And then, you know, over a period of time, I'll have this amazing thing and I'll be considered, you know, someone who's an expert. So.

So, listeners and readers, if you just heard that, what you heard is the best reason and the best pitch to get that person on your show, because not only is she a fan, she researched, understands his background, but she already has the story planned out in her mind that she wants to pull out of him and tie it to her own interest of what she's interested in learning and what she knows her audience will be interested in learning at the same time. So, Carolyn, I really hope we'll be able to get them just through this article and through this podcast, get them on your show.

I hope so. Oh, Brandon, please come on my show.

Please. Yeah, we'll do our best. He'll definitely get a Google alert about it. So that's the goal. Oh, that's great. I love you. I love that.

That's your energy about it.

It's so awesome. So what last piece of advice do you want to give for anyone who's sitting out there going, should I podcast? Should I start this thing? What's your advice for them?

If you're thinking of podcasting, if you have, you know, even a small germ of an idea or, you know, you have a curiosity about it, I would say definitely go for it. You know, as we all know, it can be time consuming. You know, it's definitely a learning curve, but it's something that has brought me a lot of personal joy and great opportunities and great connections that I never would have imagined going into it. And it's given me a lot of opportunities to learn and improve my skills and overcome a lot of fears of, you know, putting myself out there. And I know a lot of people are concerned about, like, well, I don't have a professional sounding voice or I don't know how to do this, but I'm telling you, like, literally, it doesn't matter. It makes me so sad when I hear people say that they don't like the way their voice sounds, and that's like, a reason that they don't want to go into either podcasting or broadcasting. It's like, like the world has changed. We don't all have to be like Walter Cronkite anymore.

We don't all have to go to Nebraska and train Right, Exactly.

There's a diversity of voices out there. I, you know, obsessed with voices. So I love hearing people's different tones and accents and inflections and sentence structures. So there's just so much room. Podcasting, it's becoming more and more popular. It's growing and growing, but there's still a lot of room for all kinds of people to come in and share their stories, share their expertise. Even if you don't think you have any expertise, even if you have an idea, the way you execute it will be different from anybody else in the way that they're executing it. It's just an amazing time to be in podcasting. So I say definitely go for it. And there are great resources to learn about all the different parts of podcasting. There are great communities of podcasters who are incredibly helpful and supportive if you have questions or just want to learn or need some encouragement or information. So I definitely recommend it. It's been a wonderful experience for me.

Well, Carolyn, thank you so much. Carolyn Keel, beyond six seconds. Just love your show. Definitely going to become a subscriber and a listener after the ones that I've heard so far. And that says a lot because I have to listen to a lot of shows every week. So all of you out there, if I pick the show, then it's saying a lot about how good quality is and how interesting her guests are. So everyone take a listen.

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