Amazon Seller Legal Issues with CJ Rosenbaum

Protect your brand, product or invention from the hazards of consumer product launching and go from idea to product to big brand. With guidance from retail product design and development experts Tracy and Tom Hazard. Get the insider secrets to put the right things in the right order with the right resources so you can out design, outsource and out profit your way to retail success.

Hey, product launchers, welcome back to Product Launch Hazard and I'm Tracy Hazard and I am here today with a really cool guy we got to meet. I don't know, around the Circuit, right? I'm going to call it around the Circuit the Amazon seller community and talking about various things and C.J. rosenbaum has this amazing Amazon seller lawyers.com program. And I love that because it's very specific and there are so many things unique and special about what goes on. And I say special with like the air quotes here because it's maybe not good special, but what's going on in the Amazon world and you all are facing that at some point or another, whether you start out selling on Amazon or you eventually sell on Amazon. But it's going to hit you that there is a lot of stuff going on here that is sort of universal to the digital rights management and everything that goes on and how stuff is processed is completely different than how we think about our product. So I really wanted to invite CJ on for us to talk about what's going on in this world and how you can keep yourself secure and safe and your IP and your products. And when something goes wrong, who can you trust?

I love that introduction. When something goes wrong, all that, me and my team of 35 people, all we deal with are problems. Okay, I'd probably say 80, 20, 80% problems and 20% problem prevention. So if you do have an IP issue, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I'd like to say that in dollars it is. Tens of thousands of dollars it is.

You can protect yourself so easily, cheaply do it yourself, and prevent a lot of problems or at least make dealing with the problems a lot easier if you take the right steps first as you're developing your brand. The flip side of it is if you do have a problem, nothing is fatal. In this, like ever changing online retail.

World feels kind of fatal though on.

Our end, it definitely feels fatal. Sellers all over the world, I think we met in Hong Kong, but sellers all over the world fear getting suspended. If anything bad happens, just take a deep breath, okay? It's business. It's almost always easily resolvable. And we're Here to empower and teach people how to handle a lot of things themselves.

Well, let's start at the beginning because you obviously didn't start out an Amazon lawyer, Amazon seller lawyer. I mean, you didn't start out in that world. So what area of law were you practicing before this sort of came up and grew?

I hope people don't hate trial lawyers because I was a trial lawyer. I was a personal injury, ambulance chasing trial lawyer and I loved every minute of it. Like, I loved working for the victim. I loved going after the big corporations and like beating up the city of New York when they did bad stuff. And I was the guy in the courtroom and I absolutely loved it. There was some political changes here in New York. I went through a personal issue where I had to pivot. But before I focused solely on Amazon, I was the guy in the courtroom talking to juries, asking them to award millions of dollars for the victims of accidents and bad landlords and lead paint and sexual harassment and sexual discrimination. And I loved it. So I was a trial lawyer.

Yeah, well, a victim's advocate trial lawyer though. So that kind of fits with what you're doing now. I mean, you're advocating for Amazon sellers to Amazon. Majority of the time, you're not necessarily going into court.

It's almost always helping sellers deal with Amazon themselves or arbitrations against Amazon. And there's also some seller versus seller, but we try and resolve those things as amicably as possible. So if you're a private label seller and you have an issue with another seller hijacking your listing, we do our best to resolve those issues amicably.

You know, the interesting thing is, so I've been practicing 27 years. Ooh, really long time. 27 years. I know.

So I've been practicing 27 years. And people ask me this all the time. They're like, well, you know, isn't China stealing your stuff or isn't your stuff getting stolen by other sellers? And all of those things. And I say, you know what, the majority of the problems that I have are with whatever my channel or platform is. So if it's Staples or Walmart or Amazon, that's where the number one problems lie. And part of it is in their process. So for instance, Walmart, when something came up and it was a trademark issue, it wasn't even a design that I had done, but it was a trademark issue with a name that the company I was working for gave the product. And they get this letter back from Walmart and the Walmart attorneys. When we contacted Them and tried to resolve it and just say, hey, no problems. But we believe we're okay because their trademark is in this category and we're in that category, which is allowed. But when we try to resolve it, they were like, oh, we don't care, we don't want to hear it. We get thousands of these every single day and our standard procedure is to send back a letter, so you go figure it out. Like that was it. And I was so shocked by that. That was like really early on in my career. I was so shocked by that.

Like I tell you, that's the olden days. Now the problem is with the platform, but the solutions are with the platform also where they have to. We know Amazon, especially Walmart too, they are so adept at avoiding liability that they follow the Digital Millennium Copyright act and they expand upon it. So not only is it the problem, but they also have really good mechanisms for the solution. When you have to protect your brand. Not so great if you're selling major brands as a third party seller. But if you're actually developing your own brand, developing your own product, they make it really easy to protect your brand. I mean really super easy and super simple because that's how they protect themselves.

So what are some of the majority of the things that you deal with? What kind of categories do they fall into in terms of negotiations back and forth? And I'm going to call them infringements of some kind.

Okay, well if you receive a complaint of infringement, first thing we do is you do an analysis like is our client infringing or not? And the vast majority of time they're not. Most sellers are not selling counterfeit products, or at least not doing it on purpose. So if they're not infringing, we then reach out to whoever made the complaint and we try and persuade them to withdraw the complaint because it's baseless. On the other hand, if our client is violating, you're negotiating for the same goal to get that complaint withdrawn. But you're negotiating from a different perspective because you really did violate, either knowingly or you just didn't realize you were violating. If you're a private label seller, it's also a really easy pathway to protect yourself. Like right away you want to apply for your trademark. Right away you want to draft a warranty or some portion or some benefit of your product that somebody else cannot deliver. And these things give you the ability to protect your listings. And there's a monitoring and cease and desist letters trying to get people to amicably stop hijacking Your listing and if you need to, making a complaint. But it's not rocket science. We're really good at it. We're really efficient at it because we do it every day. But it's something that private label sellers can do themselves and we're happy to teach people. I am a huge believer in paying it forward. So we're here to help people and we could also do it for them. Whatever the company wants, the seller wants.

Interesting. So are we seeing a growth in, I'm going to call them dirty tricks, like baseless claims, as you mentioned that before, are we seeing a growth of that happening as a part of the sort of like listing hacking process?

You're seeing it being more. I wouldn't say there's like more of it, but they're definitely getting better at it. Right. Like, people used to leave a bunch of like really bad reviews as a way of deep sixing your product. Now they've gotten better. Now competitors will leave really, really great reviews that are clearly bs.

So it looks like the good guy, like manipulated his own reviews, when in reality it's a competitor deep sixing him by leaving positive reviews.

Oh my gosh. There's no end to these tactics.

We've seen sellers take over the listings and adding pictures that don't match the products. We've seen altering like orders and sending back products and making complaints. We've seen just a kind of like how retailers have increased their game to hit certain levels of perfection. So have the bad actors. So I don't really think there's an increase in the bad actors. They just gotten better at it.

They found the loopholes in the system. Right. They found how the system's working, the algorithm's working. Right. Because at the end of the day, that's what it is. Really. Most of this stuff is a system and an algorithm, a process. It's not really people. There's very little people involved in the process.

Some people believe it's all algorithms. A lot of people believe it's mostly people. I kind of fall in between the two. I have the unique experience of being able to cross examine Amazon staff like once or twice a month where I can hit them hard about whatever case I'm working on. Then I could also fish for extra information.

So find out how stuff's working there. I love it.

Some of it's mind boggling. Like I always cross examine like 70% of the time. Amazon will produce the same witness. Our first name is Tammy. I'm not going to reveal her last name. And she said like three or four months ago, she basically described the training of Amazon's people that receive IP complaints having like zero legal training. Like zero. Like not a little bit, not a couple of weeks, like nothing. I was like, are you serious, Tammy? Are you kidding me? There's no training. She's like, no training. Something to that effect. It was like mind blowing. Deal with the complaints every day and they don't take even like an IP paralegal and send them to India for a couple of weeks or bring them in or do it online. I mean like zilch. Mind blowing.

You know what, that kind of aligns though with my Walmart story before, because that's what we found out too, is like all handled by. At that time it was pretty old, so secretaries and assistants and that kind of thing. And no one in the legal department ever saw it because their opinion was that there is no IP here, that it's all like conjecture and it's not issued yet. And if it was, you'll just go to court and deal with it on your own later. And so they treat it like there isn't really law here.

Yes. What also blew my mind is let's say you're a private label brand, you send in a complaint to Amazon. You're right, it's counterfeit and they're unauthorized. Right? Counterfeit is a serious IP violation. Unauthorized is nothing. But since you included the word unauthorized or authorized or map, they just take it and throw it in the toilet and ignore the valid complaints because you included too much.

Ah, interesting. So, yeah, so being very narrow and specific with your request, that's what you're teaching them and that's what you're doing that is so valuable and quicker to getting a response.

And it all kind of matches Amazon's consumer centric company, right? And all the Amazon people I've met are like brainwashed corporate culture. Even the ones that have been like fired, right? That if you can save a customer half a penny, it doesn't matter if you put 5,000 people out of work, right? Doesn't matter. They have this culture that consumer is always right. So if you focus on something regarding the consumer, they act. If you focus on something regarding your rights as a brand owner, they could care less.

I wonder if we're gonna start seeing a shift because they're bringing in more top level brands like the Nikes of the world and those kinds of things. And when you see that shift happen, this is why they've avoided their platform so long. And yet now it's a necessary evil for them. Like they have to have some of these brands on their platform or they're going to lose traction. So it's going to be interesting to see how that shift starts to happen over time. And if there becomes a better balance.

We deal with more suspensions than I think any other company, law firm or otherwise in the world. So we have a really good view. And we started seeing this trend towards big brands to protecting a big brand. Consumers are up here, then the big brands and the third party sellers are.

Like down on the bottom, right? Yeah.

But they've been doing this now, I'd probably say a good two, two and a half years, shifting towards brands weeding out online arbitrage, weeding out retail arbitrage. There's still a boatload of money to be made. I don't want anyone to stop making money. But there's certainly a shift and that's why I think it's really important for sellers to develop their own private label brands. You could be the next Nike or Under Armour.

Right. So that's what we're here about at Product Launch Hazards. Right. We're here to help them through that process of creating very unique and highly saleable. Right. That's the ultimate goal. And you know, in a way, a lot of what we do here is try to get it into territory at which no one feels that it's competitive because, you know, it's not easy pickings. And that's where we remove the opportunity for these bad actors to really want to go after you. Because there isn't really, maybe it's there's expensive tooling involved or there's a specialized design that would be cost effective for them to duplicate, or you put such great value into your brand and your customer service. On the other hand, no one is going to want to recreate that or no one can recreate that quite the same way. So that's what we're trying to work on here at Product Launch Hazards is really making sure that people understand the tools that they can use to do that. But some of the ways are in that advanced protection as well. Because right when you're starting, they don't know how great you are yet.

I don't think the people know how great they are. Like when you have that idea and you jump on both feet, you're now developing your brand, your product, you have rights, you are fantastic, you're doing something unique and it's really easy to protect it because as it blows up then you want to have those tools already in place. So I think it's the business people themselves. Like you have to believe in yourself. Okay. And building your own protections, building your sword as you're out there, building your brand and your product and launching this is all part of the same sort of process that you need to follow.

What are some of these things that they can do to protect themselves?

From the beginning, file for your trademark yourself, whatever name you came up with for your product or your company, your brand. You don't even need the drawing yet. Like you don't even need the fancy logo yet, just the words. And do it yourself. USPTO.gov Easy. USPTO.gov yeah, I can tell people I.

Have filed trademarks, they're super easy and they're not expensive because, you know, basically it's just a word. There's no real explanation of anything you have to do.

You know, I've been practicing now also. Right in the mid 20 years. Right. I'm 26 year this year.

Ah, you're catching up to me.

I'm catching up. I look way worse for the wear. But. But you totally do it yourself. You do just the words. If something comes back, it's called an office action, then you can call a lawyer to help you out, but do the application yourself, it's so easy. And the websites right out of 1996.

Yeah. This is why I say to you anyone could do it because it is super simple. What about copyrights? Do copyrights apply? I mean, I know it's kind of a gray area with products today, but there are some things that are copyrightable.

Okay. Copyright is one of the easiest things in the world. If it is something you create, whether it's picture, verbiage, a drawing, anything that could be captured on any type of semi permanent media, you automatically own copyright interest in it. Now if you have to sue somebody, then you have to file it. But just by creating, like just by having my board here made up, it's now captured on a media and whether I file it or not, I have copyright in it. It's automatic. You take your own picture, you have copyright interest in it without filing anything at all in the world. You don't need to file anywhere at all. You created it, you own it.

Wow. And so that's easy. And you know, this is the thing is like I had an infringement incident with Staples and a client and we had urged our client to file a design patent on this. It was a very decorative stitch pattern that was put on the back of an office chair. And we said you can file a copyright on that because it's so decorative, because it's a very simple pattern. But what happened was, is that they said, no, we're not that interested in that and we're not going to file a design patent. It seems like a waste, it's not that enforceable and all of these things. Fast forward after two years of selling it very successfully, Staples says, we're going to just send this out for bid in China and we're going to knock it off. And when they did, there was now no design patent associated with it. The copyright belonged technically to me because they never got an assignment from that. And I said, do you want it? And they said, well, gosh, you know, we didn't really do this right the first time. And it's like, well, there's a $4 million a year mistake you just made by not taking a couple thousand dollars for infringement protection. So there are elements of products that can be copyrightable in and of themselves and be thinking about that and actually file those is what I recommend because of how they come about. And motifs become mainstream after a while. So you definitely want to file them early.

You know, it's also, it's like walk softly and carry a big stick. By filing, you have that big stick and when you amortize it, it's not a lot of money and it's not a lot of time. So you want to be able to have that stick and say, listen, Staples, you're selling my product. Here's my billy club. Let's work something out. And again, I'm not. While I was a trial lawyer, listen, I was involved in more trials than if everyone listening to this takes all the lawyers they know, adds them all together. I've got more trial experience than all of them put together. Okay, you can approach Staples, you don't have to go to court. It'll just give you the ability to negotiate a very advantageous agreement where let them sell $4 million worth of stuff as long as you're getting your 2 million out of it or more.

This is the thing though, is that most people don't understand it's great to have a patent, it's great to have all of that, but reality is it matters very little in the scope of what Amazon will do initially. And all of that is related to many, many other things and tactics. You talk about that they treat that IP protection as something outside of the digital realm. Why is that?

Well, in a lot of ways they do. And in a lot of ways they just do a hands off thing like the typical Situation is there's a seller selling a product and a brand owner or rights owner makes a complaint, and Amazon either suspends the listing or the entire account lets the two sides work it out. So if you developed your private label brand, if you developed your product and you've launched successfully, you're holding the cards and you may choose to keep them down, you may choose to do a licensing agreement with them. There's a lot of things you can do. So if your product is being hijacked on Amazon, there's a lot of things that you have at your disposal to protect and either stop that seller or to negotiate a really advantageous distribution deal.

See, this is what I think is so interesting, that most people think, they think that Amazon is going to do it all, but it's really you negotiating with the other party. And that is really critically important. So making sure that you have all of your rights in line and you understand them and that you are on the right side of that. Because there's a lot of people who think that they're right and they get their listings shut down. And they were like, yeah, you guys weren't doing stuff right. So that does happen too. So you have to make sure you're on the right side of that. One thing I want to touch on it and really is that we've both had this experience, I'm sure, with clients. So coming off a Kickstarter, so you finally get your product, it's finally made, you've cleared Kickstarter, you've made it, you've delivered your goods, and now you go to put it on Amazon and find out you already have all these knockoffs on there. That happens a lot, doesn't it?

It's a big problem, especially if you're manufacturing in China. I'm not anti Chinese. We have a full staff in China. We have five people in Shenzhen, one in Yiwu. They're remarkable business people. But copying or copycatting is just different culturally. So by the time your whole Kickstarter thing is all wound up, there's six other factories who don't even think they're doing anything wrong, who can produce it faster and cheaper than your whole plan. And it is. It's an issue.

Yeah. So we are about to launch something on Indiegogo and Kickstarter in a couple of months. But the difference is, is that we know what we're doing because we've been doing this so long, and our product will actually be ready to ship on the day the campaign ends. And so it will be in Amazon at the same time. So it'll shift from the campaign straight into logistics, production, and all of the things that everyone still has to pay for and do we will have already done so. You know, that's a different model of it, but it's a way to use Kickstarter and Indiegogo because the marketing of that is so valuable. It's hard for many, many growing brands to skip that.

You know what's also cool about that? That's just a pure example that experience matters. Okay. Because you've been around the block a couple times. You know, there's a better way, way of just the process of the order of things occurring. Right. To manipulate it to protect yourself for the success that you plan. So there's a saying about experience matters, but that is just one example about launching a product using Kickstarter and also having all the pieces in the puzzle in a certain order to protect yourself as you're successful.

Yeah, exactly. We call it the right things in the right order with the right resources or the right people. Either way, that's the way we talk about it here. But it is that because you're going to be able to take opportunity of the good parts of these things, but you have less likelihood to fall victim to the risks of them. So speaking of risks, it's not a product launch hazards episode if we don't talk about some of the hazards of what you do every day and maybe some of the stories. And I know you have attorney client privilege, but there's got to be some generalized stories you can tell of things that just go all wrong for people because they didn't do things in the right order.

Yeah. One thing is you gotta do some research. Okay. I'm thinking of a product. It's a type of plastic box. I'm not revealing too much. And it was, it was a great, great, great idea. Only no one spent the time going on uspto.gov because someone else already had that great idea.

Yeah, Google patents. My favorite, I have to say it's even easier because the USPTO is like archaic. So Google patents is just as good as. But you also don't know. This is what people don't realize, I think about that, is that they don't know that applications take a while to publish. So there may be things in the works you have to actually check regularly if you're in the process of developing something.

Also, patents relate back to the filing date. So someone else filed before you and then they get it. They're entitled to all of your Profits. So you got to do some research. If you're over 45 years of age, go to USPTO.gov if you're under 45 years of age, use Google. But you got to do some research. And this particular client had like two or three containers en route from China heading to California to go into FBA when her first batch just got dinged. And unfortunately, the other side was 100% right. They had a design patent. Hers was like, exactly the same. The research you gotta do before you jump in with both feet. Spend some time doing a bit of research to make sure that this idea really is new. And if you find something similar, I don't want you to give up, then figure out a way to improve it to avoid the design patent. But to me, the number one issue when you're developing a product is you have to do just a bit of research. I don't think you need to pay tens of thousands of dollars. Google patent, uspto.gov get a feel for it. And like the doctors say, right, Start low and go slow. Okay. Test the market, see what's out there, then jump in with both feet.

Yeah, let's not have two containers worth. Let's have a couple hundred maybe, you know, let's keep it low, get them out there. Right, Absolutely. I totally agree with that. The other thing that, you know, in my experience that I found from doing this is that, you know, it is a good thing to find competitive and to find other things out there. But if the patents haven't been reduced to use. So in other words, if you find these patents out there, but they never made the product or it didn't happen, that's a sign that maybe you should rethink it and not do it. And, you know, there's rare cases in there, but this is something where you really want to think this through. And maybe at some point when you find this discrepancy, like you see something and you think you're different enough, that's when you go find a lawyer who can help you. That's when you go higher, so higher when you find the differences or when you need advice on that from someone who has deep knowledge in whether it's the product or the patent process, because that's where the right resources can make the difference into making sure that you do that. We practice something here called intentional invention, which is kind of what you just said there, which is we see opportunity, we see that there's a market for it, and we say, now let's invent into the gap of what consumers want most. That's where you really start making money. And that's where really you're still able to protect yourself. It's not just creating a product. That is me too.

That's right. That's right. There's a kids movie, okay? I got a total of four kids, all different ages. Now I got mine, hers, ours, stepchildren, all that kind of thing. There's a movie called iRobot. And the saying was, see a need, fill a need. And by taking like, products and then seeing what the need is from that product, like maybe it needs another pocket or a handle or a zipper or a brace or a light or who knows what to improve upon it. By doing that, you improve the product. You avoid the design patent issue. Okay. And also this whole thing about having a lawyer evaluated. Most people don't call lawyers. They're afraid of the cost. I mean, you could send me something and it could literally be like five minutes for free. Say, you know what? I think this is different enough. Okay, Go for it. Or you can clearly say, no way, total violation. Okay? And that could be done for free. It's the one that are in betweens where you Sometimes you have to pay some money to really get a really thorough opinion. But a lot of times it's just a phone call, a couple emails and some pictures and say, wow, Tracy, that rocks. Go for it.

Yeah. And then they're going to come back to you anyway and have you file and have you do all those things. So it's good for you as well. Now you have a book. You got it right there, I think. Right?

We have. I'm reaching over here because Amazon made a mistake and sent me 2,000 instead of 1,000. So we got like.

You've got a lot of books there. So tell me the title of your book.

Well, we have like four or five books out right now. This one that's over here. Cause I have an extra thousand of them. The Amazon Guide to Suspensions. It's how to avoid getting your either listing or account suspended. And it's also how to get your account back. Like a Do it Yourself Plan of Action guide. Also this year we have the Amazon Seller's Guide to Copyright Law. The Amazon Seller's Guide to Trademark Law. We have a book on Chinese intellectual property law.

That's a huge gap because I can tell you that I have done that where you try to find out information and there's very few lawyers who are really experienced in it. And wow, that's a great need. You're filling right there.

Well, I gotta tell you, I don't think I'm a genius. Okay. I think I'm really good at spotting what people's needs are. Like, this idea was given to me by a client of mine that I've known forever. There are Amazon sellers that need help. As far as I'm aware, there are only two lawyers who really know anything about Chinese intellectual property law. For U.S. sellers, for U.S. business people. And the other one, like, what she talked about, it was so complex. I was like, this is terrible. I gotta explain this to people.

Yes, it is. It's so complex. So we've stumbled into, like, issues between factories and within China, issues that we didn't know existed that actually prevented our ability to, like, get the product and sell it, even though there were US Rights available. Like, it was really crazy stuff that happened. And so, yeah, it's convoluted and it's. I look forward to reading that one.

Well, I'll tell you what. I tell you, I'm a huge believer in paying it forward. Anybody wants a copy of any of the books, I'm happy to send them a free copy.

Wonderful. Well, all the information on how you can contact CJ and take him up on that offer will be in the episode. Show notes. Call them show notes, blog post, whatever you want to call it. At product launch hazards, there also will be a profile for CJ created so that you can find the video quickly. And you don't have to go through and search all the blogs because, gosh, we post a lot. I think we have over 500 blogs right now. So there's a lot of information here. And we want to make sure you can find C.J. quickly because, you know, you have in your head who this is. But you might be listening to this while you're in the car. So you can go to the right resources section and you'll be able to find his profile there and be able to get to all the content and also his contact information right there.

When I heard you speak, okay, I was in the audience. I don't know if I spoke yet or I was gonna speak.

Whatever it was you were gonna speak, you hadn't spoke yet because I hadn't heard you yet.

So. And you get up there, and immediately I'm like, whoa. And I start Googling you. And I love the amount of content you put out.

This is a funny story, actually. So you and I had had this kind of zoom call, I don't know, after Prosper show, where we didn't really Meet. But somehow I ended up with your card and we connected because someone told me that you were the person to talk to. So we got connected after that. We had a zoom call and I remembered your voice and I remembered you. And I'm getting ready to do my speech and I see you walk into the room. You had just come in and you just flown in. And so I see you walk into the room and I was like, I can't see Jake because he looks really familiar to me. And something I set up on stage, it was of course about intellectual property. And you said, amen, sister, or something like that from the back. And I was like, I think that's cj. And so I mentioned you and I was like, is that C.J. back there? And you're like, yes, it's me. And so that was so funny though, to be able to have that. But I get that all the time when I speak from the lawyers in the audience. That really what we talk about here at Product Launch Hazards helps you do your job. It's easier because there's a concerted effort to making sure that we put protections in place, but also that we've thought it through in making sure that this is the reason people are buying from us. So it makes it valuable at the end of the day too.

And all of it, like, there's no way, there's no way to make up for experience.

Right?

When I first started practicing law and I was, I took on any trial I could get right, and I still had my bushy blonde hair, which is long gone, I used to tell people, listen, I'm going to do better for you because I'm just going to work that much harder. And I did, I mean, I did great for people because I worked my ass off. But now, like, with experience behind me, like the experience you have behind you, like, you've seen so many screw ups that you know how to avoid them and how to be more effective and more efficient and faster and cheaper and better. So there is nothing to make up for experience.

Yeah, this is why we're here, is because we want to bring great people like CJ to you because they're accelerators in your process to making sure that you don't run into these hiccups of getting yourself shut down and being unable to make profit.

Right.

You have a plan and you want to keep to it. And there are certain people in that process that are accelerators. And that's what we're here to expose you to at Product Launch Hazards. So, cj, thank you. So much for coming on and sharing your wisdom with us today.

I love it. I'm like, honored to be part of speaking with you and I'd like to promote something if it's okay.

Go right ahead.

All right, everyone who is selling on Amazon or thinking about Amazon shops on Amazon. And don't tell me you don't.

Okay, Right.

So if you're shopping on Amazon and I'm not anti Amazon, I think Amazon is one of the greatest opportunities in, like, the history of commerce.

Me too.

Amazon has a program called Amazon Smiles. And you sign on through Amazon Smiles, then it allows you to pick a charity. Once you pick a charity, it doesn't cost you the buyer anything. It doesn't cost the seller anything. Amazon then kicks back a very small portion of the sale to the charity you pick. My charity is the Ty Lewis Campbell Foundation. Ty. Ty Lewis Campbell Foundation. It was founded by a fraternity brother of mine named Lou Campbell and his incredible wife Cindy, that when they lost their son Ty, they turned the tragedy into absolute triumph and their pain into productivity. And they created this foundation. And all they do is raise money to find better treatments and God willing, a cure for pediatric cancers. Because what exists now, it sucks.

It does.

And if you've ever seen a sick kid, it's awful. It's awful on an emotional level, it's awful on a national level of productivity. I mean, it's just God awful. So if you're shopping on Amazon, use Amazon Smiles. And I would ask you to pick the Ty Lewis Campbell Foundation.

Well, thank you for sharing that with us because I love that. That is one of the things that we're here, is that, you know, everyone has their impact that they want to bring to the world, right? Whether it's their social impact, their change the movement, change the world and the way we shop, whatever that might be, that is your impact. And thank you for raising your attention to the one you care about, because that's going to mean something to someone more. And I love that. Thank you so much, cj. Really appreciate your time today and everyone. Make sure you find him. Make sure you come back to his profile and make sure you reach out when you need help.

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