*Becoming a Podcast Guest Magnet: Sharing the Benefits of Guesting on a Podcast

This is Feed you'd Brand with hosts Tom Hazard and Tracy Hazzard.

Hey, welcome to Feed you'd Brand. I'm Tom Hazard along with my co host, Tracy Hazzard. Today, we're going to talk about be a guest magnet. The benefits of guesting on a podcast. Now, this is not gonna be what you might expect from that title. I think we have a different take on it, but this is going to be well worth a listen.

Well, I want to caveat it by when you ask anyone who's a seasoned podcaster about, like, you know, what are your tips for getting guests on your show or anything like that, they're like, have a show. Like, you know, it's like none of them think. When you've hit 25 episodes or more, you don't really think about your guests anymore. When you hit 100 episodes or more, it's on autopilot. You know, you want to still take on good guests, but it's on autopilot. Now. There may come a time when you're, like, just so sick of the kind of guests that you're getting that you want to make some changes. Those things happen. But what we're really talking about, people who think that they need to work hard to appeal to guests to get good guests on their show are usually in the startup stages. So that's where we're gearing this advice to. When you're in the zero to probably, like, 10 episodes, this is really where this is most useful. But it's really useful up in that first year.

And it's foundational. It sets up how you will succeed and how guests will find you going forward. Or you certainly won't have to make much of an ask in order to get them to agree to be on your show. Anyway, let's jump in.

Yeah. So I'm going to start with the things that you probably shouldn't do. The stop, stop doing this, don't do this, which we typically like. Whenever we do our, like, lists of things, we start the other way. And the reason why is because these are the conventional advice. The things that most people have been telling you to do. They tell you you need a guest. One sheet, like, all of those things. And we're here to tell you that stop thinking that way because that starting that way is part of your problem.

Sounds great, Tracy. So what not to do.

Stop worrying about the stats. Stop saying I'm in the top 2% of podcasts. Stop saying my downloads have grown 40% month over month.

You know, I agree with that, Tracy. Because no one's going to believe you anyway. Let's just make that clear. Podcast analytics, while I do think are very useful for us podcasters in order to have a feedback loop of how our show is doing, is it growing? Is it not? You know, and things like that. But no one's going to believe you. No one can verify of what you say is true or not in terms of how many downloads you have or what the growth has been. And the common thing, especially newer podcasters do, is they end up quoting listen notes, which is just one. It's not even really a very good listening app. It's one outlet of your podcast, one source of data about your podcast. But the percentages they quote. If you have a podcast and you're breathing, you know, basically you've published an episode recently, you're going to be in the top 10% of podcasts, because they include every podcast that's ever existed, even ones that haven't published in many, many years, in that percentage. So that percentage is not very useful. It doesn't really give your podcast any credibility by anybody who knows anything about podcasts.

And I have seen that those that post weekly or have a daily show or all of those other things are in the top 2%. So, like, that's just pretty much, as Tom put it, anyone publishing, so that's the only requirement doesn't mean it's a good show. It doesn't mean anything. And real good guests know that, and agencies who might place you on good shows know that. So we just need to stop it. And also, the Hollywood Reporter is just reporting that everybody's fudging their numbers, including, and most importantly, the big guys in the industry. And if they're fudging their numbers, they've blown it for the rest of us. They're never going to believe your numbers because you're small. So don't bother to start there. Just don't start there. That's not the value of being on your show. That's what we're reframing here. It's not in the numbers. It's not in the charts. All right, all right. The second reframe is stop starting ugly. Like, I don't. I know that's like. Like a oxymoron, but don't start ugly like it's bad practice to set an unprofessional tone. I'm not saying you shouldn't start with a low budget or do what you can, but I'm saying just really stop this, like, bad sound. Don't use a Microphone, like the people not using microphones. It's just the worst thing ever. It's so unprofessional. It sets the tone for everything you're going to do from that point forward. And I do not want to be on your show.

We used to get a lot of guest solicitations on our WTFF podcast, and we would vet them and actually go listen to their show. And there are, you know, several people that, you know, had a great idea for a topic and pitch themselves as guests that we thought, all right, that sounds like it might be worth doing that. When we listen to their show and we heard how poor the audio quality is, you know, we said no. I mean, not only did I not want to have them as a guest on my show because I'd be associated with their show that was bad quality, but refused to be a guest on their podcast, too, when they were soliciting us to be guests on their show. It's like, I. I'm not going to be on this show. I mean, literally had some disasters of shows that I could not be associated with. Like, people recording in the middle of a big city with the window open and you're hearing, you know, street car horns and sirens go by and things like this. I'm like, why would you think that's acceptable? So, anyway, just some good examples of bad quality, right?

And Tom and I aren't saying you have to hire us. You have to hire potatoes. You have to hire a big production agency. We're not saying that at all. We're just saying get a really good mic, get a really nice quiet environment, and do the best job that you can to put out as professional a show as possible. Represent it in the light you'd like to be seen in. In the professional level. You expect for everyone to associate, because I'm not gonna associate with someone who's unprofessional. I do not want my name to help carry a show like that. That's also the really important part. If you want good guests, they don't want something to drag their brand down. So make sure you're playing at a level where it's at least par with the rest of the industry. So that's the second one. The last one is this kind of model, which a lot of people out there tell you when they want you to get started. They're selling you a course, a program. Go get your friends to be on your show. Go beg your mastermind people to be on your show. No, just stop taking anyone. Start discerning Start with a curated show. Be careful about who you put on your show from the beginning because you're setting the tone for who you're going to get later.

Yeah, this is an important thing to understand. Low hanging fruit is not going to be in your best interest here to say, well, this person's available. Right? Or I, you know, the thing, I hear a lot as well. I have a couple of friends, I've recorded a couple episodes because they were willing to do it with me. You know, I meet a lot of podcasters that are embarrassed to ask for the real guests they want to have early in their episodes because they have this apprehension, this concern that they're not good enough to get a real guest in air quotes here on their show. And that is something we need to really break you of right from the start.

Yeah, let's stop that right there. Just you're worthy. Your show is a publicity vehicle. It is worthy of a great guest. So do not worry about that. That doesn't mean that your coworker in the industry, your mastermind group, people that they're not any good, they may be perfectly valuable to your niche, but they maybe shouldn't be your first guest. And that's the difference there. Record it. Use it as practice. Save it for later. Don't publish it in the order you record it, just because that's what the way it occurs.

I'm so glad you said that, Tracy, because that's what I was going to say as well. You know, if you need to get your feet wet, you need experience podcasting, getting on the mic. Go ahead and do it. Record something with them. Stick it in the parking lot. Don't drive it down the freeway right away. Let's put it in the parking lot. Let's wait. And I bet probably seven times out of ten, any of you out there who do this will go back to the episode and say, yeah, I'm not going to air that. Let me record another one with that person if you want to still have them on the show. So anyway, this is really important and it's a little counterintuitive, I think, for people to understand.

Right. So let's talk about the three things that are really the reason why podcasting is so amazing and everyone should want to be on a guest on podcast. Now, that doesn't mean your show isn't a right fit for everyone. Right. So we need to do that. Well, here's the big thing. Especially when you have a brand new show, you have first mover advantage. The first people you invite on your show, the first episodes you record are going to remain in every single show I've ever seen. They will remain in the top 10.

I don't think enough new podcasters understand this, Tracy. And I really don't think enough podcast coaches really understand this either.

Well, and guesting companies definitely don't, which is what is really ridiculous about it. Look, it's a crapshoot. You might get a bad show, right? They might not be a good show. When you go on a brand new show, it might not succeed.

More often than not, though, not only will they succeed, but your appearance on that guest episode is going to be heard so much more than any other episodes that show ever publishes. That's what people don't understand. They don't get that. They have trouble believing that. But it is 100% true.

If the show fails, the first 10 episodes are published, typically, right? That's kind of where the pod fade mark is, right? 10, 11 episodes, right? It starts there. So those episodes are going to get aired. And when you've put your time and effort into starting a podcast, you're going to publicize them too. When people start pod fitting at 11 to 25 episodes, somewhere in there, they start to lose interest. So being the second mover isn't as big an advantage. So not only is the episode played more than any other episodes, because when people come to a show and they find it new, they listen to those first few episodes. That's just how binge listeners especially do that. And those are the most valuable listeners you can ever get. And so when they are checking out a show, they're going to check out the first three to five episodes and they're going to pick one that they like. Oh, that sounds like a cool topic or a cool person. Let me listen to that one and check it out. So that's one of the reasons why they continue to be one of the most listened to over time.

I challenge any of you existing podcasters. Now, those of you, the newbies that haven't launched yet won't be able to do this. But any of you existing podcasters, if you look at your show analytics all, all time, don't just look for the last month or two months, you've got to look at the all time numbers. And when you do that, and you then see all the downloads per episode, guarantee you that the first 10 episodes will always have more plays than any other episodes in your entire lineup. As you go forward, doesn't matter whether you get to 25 episodes, 50 episodes, 300 episodes, or a thousand episodes. The first ones, as long as they're still published, are going to get the most plays.

Now that's on average you will still have spikes with really great guests and other things like that. That's why they don't dominate the they won't be the only ones in the top 10, but they will have the best all time plays. And so when you're seeing that consistent plays happening over time, this is where the second thing comes in. The value of podcasting is longevity. It is that long term search engine value, that audio, video, hopefully, blog, hopefully you have a little bit of everything, the multimedia value of it as well. So really what's in it for them is this long term value that it creates. So if you're the first mover and it has the most long term value, you're getting the maximum out of it. So now here you go. Two reasons to be some of the first guests on a show. There's no reason for you to undersell, to shortchange the opportunity of being a first guest on your show. Just not, not in the cards. Like this is the best spot to be.

It really is. And I tell new podcasters because they're often apprehensive, they feel guilty even or embarrassed to ask someone to be one of the first guests of the show because they have no audience yet. It's true, you haven't launched a show yet, you don't have an audience. Don't apologize for that. In fact, I try to coach people to turn that into a selling point. And you know what? Certain potential guests will say, well, how big an audience do you have? It's like, you know what you need to tell them. You're asking the wrong question.

Right? Because what's in it for you is that that longevity and the professional production that you're hopefully going to be able to demonstrate with something. You should have like a trailer or something that you can show them if you haven't recorded your show already, just to show them the quality that they can expect. There's this personal touch that you're going to be bringing to these first episodes because the show promotion is as important as the guest promotion at that stage, right? So they're going to get way more promotion in those first few episodes than they would anywhere else. When you're busy doing it, you know, recording new and doing one a week and you're on a cadence to it, they are not going to get the special attention that they will when you launch. So that's what's in it for them and then you can promise them some other things, like some extra stories, collabs, confirmation of, you know, sending it out to your email list. Because you're going to send it out to your email list to let them know about the launch of the show. You may not do that every week, but you're going to do it when you launch your show. You're going to make a special promotion of it. They can get added into those things.

You know, really, it's naive for a guest to think that being in one of the first episodes of a new show that has no audience yet is somehow going to be, you know, put them at a disadvantage. And it doesn't. So again, I coach new podcasters. You want to sell that and let them know this is a premier opportunity. They have to be featured as one of the first guests of a show.

And if they ask you those questions like, well, what's your download numbers? Or any of those things about stats, then you say, the next person on my list is this and you pick their best competitor. The next person on my list is that you're obviously not attuned to podcasting and it's not your thing. So I'm going to move on to the next person on my list. Insult them like they need to get with it if they're going to be a good podcast guest. They are not going to make a good guest if they're already questioning the value before they come on. They only want what's in it for them. And they're being very selfish about it and they're being very narrow in their view is like, I only want to sell books or I only want to do this or I'm not wasting my time. You don't want those people on your show. They're going to shortchange your audience.

They're also just wrong that it isn't going to be as much value as if they were your 20th or your 50th guest instead of one of the first. So it's just very short sighted. But I agree. Tracy, put a clock on it. You know, hey, I'm signing up my first 10 guests for my podcast and once they're filled, you know, they're gone. And, you know, you can give someone the opportunity. Think of it as like a right of first refusal, but you're not waiting very long and you're gonna, you know. And I agree. Tracy, let them know, well, I'm calling these other people next and make sure it's, yeah, their biggest competitors or whoever they might be chasing and Their ego will, if you do that, will, I'm sure, say nope. Okay, I'll schedule with you. I'll do it.

So the last section of these are. So we really like what's in it for them, right? This value that they have and that first mover advantage we've been talking about. But this last one is the value of your thought leadership niche. Now keep in mind that some of you don't have a niche, and I'm not talking to you because I'm going to have to give you a way to do this separately. But those of you that have a deep niche, like Tom and I, had a deep niche in 3D printing. We had a deep niche in product design and development, in E commerce. We had a deep niche in blockchain and cryptocurrency when I did the New Trust Economy. We have a deep niche in emerging VC managers with the Emerging Managers Fund with Scott Kelly that I'm doing right now. So, like all of those are deep niches. So it's much, much easier when you're very focused in a niche to get someone who wants to speak to people in that niche. And it doesn't really matter to them whether they speak to a hundred people or a hundred thousand people who don't have that niche. Right. Because they're more likely to convert in a deep niche than they are in just the general population. So then your numbers, again, don't matter. Your expertise in that area. Now if you are new to that expertise, it's not your forte, it's not where you started. You may need to, you know, work a little bit on why you. Why are you the right person for this niche. And so for Tom and I, when we started in 3D printing, we were nobodies in 3D printing, but we were somebody's in product design. And so that's the angle we gave it. It helped us work on what are you going to 3D print. And so that fit our model and people flocked to that because it wasn't being talked about. So not only were we in a really important niche, but we were taking on a gap in that niche. So you could do that too, find your gap in that area. But when you have this highly engaged group of people, so if you've had a course, a mastermind, any other thing that you could use to demonstrate the engagement, a Facebook group, anything you can use to demonstrate that you have an engagement in that niche and audience, that is the only value you need to demonstrate that this is of interest to them because they're already interested in talking to people in that niche. They don't need to be oversold on that. They just need to know that you are the right person to help them reach some more people that they want to reach.

And this is so important to start your show out on the right foot this way, because this sets up the foundation. And so an example, there's a podcaster that launched in May that we're supporting and didn't know anything, had some of the same apprehensions, was kind of concerned about asking guests. I reframed their thinking on it. Like I said to say, this is a premier opportunity. Spoke with them, actually, just yesterday, the day before recording this, and they said, you know What? I'm recording 10 to 12 episodes a month right now because so many people are wanting to be guests on his show. They're beating a path to his door. And this show doesn't even have 25 episodes published yet. And we had this conversation about, okay, well, now you're going to have another problem, which is if you don't start publishing it at a higher frequency, you're going to dissatisfy guests because they're like, wait, wait, wait. How many months is it going to be till my episode airs? Six months, nine months? I'm like, no, no, you need to start publishing two a week instead of one a week, which is a really good problem to have, especially when you're podcasting to try to increase your authority, raise awareness of you and your business or, you know, if it's related to your business in any way, this is, like the best scenario.

So I said before about the niche. If your niche isn't obvious, right? That guy's niche is obvious. Right? I know who you're talking about. So his niche is very obvious. He's in the right world. But if your show is kind of vague, you know, especially if you got something called the Tracy show or like, whatever your name is, like, those are going to be a lot harder for you to do this on and demonstrate this. This is why Tom and I coach you not to do that, right? Not to name the show after you, not to put your picture on the COVID art, because this makes the guest seeking so much harder. So you can simplify that by taking our advice to begin with and setting up your show in a different way. But. But if you don't, if you have a really general, like, you know, I mean, I always think, like, entrepreneurs on Fire was, like, such a big thing. It could be any entrepreneur anywhere about any subject, like, anything.

It's not a narrow niche, is it? It's really a wide niche. And in fact, you know, the business entrepreneurship category on Apple is one of the most popular categories. It's also one of the most competitive categories of podcasts. There's a lot of content out there, right?

So if your show is like that and you want it to be like that for the long term reasons, right, that you want to have that kind of broadness for what you're doing, what your business is about and what that is, that doesn't mean you can't do something about it in a different way. Like, let's say you want to focus on startups, that your whole focus is that you're going to be interviewing startup founders. What if you interviewed startup founders in the software space and you did a series on that, then startup founders in the health space and you did focus on that, then startup founders in the wellness or, you know, fitness space, like, you know, just started expanding out and did a three episode series. And so you can always go to your best guest, the one you want the most, and say, I'm going to have a series with these three people, including you, right? And I really like you to anchor this. Like, so that the best part about that is that when you tell the other two, there's no way they're going to refuse, right? You didn't say, say, I already secured these two. This is my three series that I'd like to have, right? And so as you're rolling into these, you can do these sort of series or themes, if you want to call it, you can do a monthly theme, you could do four episodes of it, you could do weekly if you're doing, you know, multiples per week. So any kind of thing that you can do where you're putting together like a grouping of this, it really actually makes it easy for you to promote them out together as a group, which helps bring more of those types of listeners. So if you wanted more software founders as your listeners, this is a good way to get it. Because if you've got one guest that doesn't do their job, but the other two do, you're in a good place. So when you do that, not only is it that sort of like one upmanship benefit, you know, that like competitiveness that takes over, but it creates an opportunity for you actually to do more with it and understand what's playing for you. So if you're doing this and you weren't really sure where your niche was going to be, I mean, Tom and I, when we did our 3D print, we didn't know whether was it going to be education, was it going to be business, was it going to be industrial? We didn't know where we'd play. And we did some experiments with that until we found where our sweet spot of listenership and guests were. You're going to be able to experiment and find that too.

You know, I think you're so right. Tristy. I like the idea of the limited series within your podcast focuses on different areas. And that's something I would totally have done too, is just say, hey, here's my podcast schedule. I've got these episodes in the series I'm doing and this one is going to be with that person and this one is going to be with that person. And I'd like you to anchor it. That's your plan. You can say that with integrity. You haven't said, oh, I've already booked that person yet. It's implied, but you didn't actually lie. It's really very much Tracy. Like you remember in our early days in business and like Internet 1.0, when I needed to get a meeting with a certain company, I'd call them up and say, you know what? And this is, we lived on the east coast and I was dealing with companies in Silicon Valley. You know what, I'm going to be in Silicon Valley this week. While I'm there, it would make sense to meet. Would, you know, can I schedule you in? And I didn't have a trip planned. I'm only going to meet with them. But when you call them and you tell them I'm going to be in your area, so it's going to be very convenient. Would you be willing to make some time meet with me? They say yes. Then you book the meeting. You know, so it's a little bit similar, sort of old school, you know, networking and getting your foot in the door technique. And you can do that, right?

Just make sure you can deliver on the other two that you actually already have contact information for them, that you can actually reach them. Because when you tell them this other person is in that you now solidified. Now you can actually say that and it's more likely for you, you to complete the group, right?

Oh, definitely use them and play them off each other. Now the reality may be, oh, you know what, somebody's schedule changed and they couldn't be on there. I mean, you can obviously cover it, right?

And then the best thing to do is to go back to the other two of the group and ask them who they want Their third to be and have them refer that third person to you rather than you going out there and scrambling. That is going to be the best way for you to do that. Because they knew who they want to be seen up next to. It's like asking them to fill out the panel. It always works.

Who else do you know? Who would you recommend? Would you be willing to connect me with?

So and so dropped out.

Yeah. And you'd be surprised what people are willing to do.

Yeah, exactly. So those are the just the sort of nuts and bolts of really trying to create this value. This. I mean, podcasting, there's lots of benefits to podcasting. Right. You should not have to, in this day and age, work that hard to do more than say, here's the opportunity with my show. Here's why it's different. Here's what value you're achieving. You don't have to go into the value of a podcast overall anymore. We used to have to do that a decade ago. We don't have to sell on that anymore. If they don't believe in the value of it, then just say, forget it. They're not going to make a good guest.

Yeah. Move on if that happens. You're right. I mean, so many podcasts, podcasters are guests on late night TV shows now. Every single week. There's at least one. And now on. I don't really watch broadcast television news, but when you do watch broadcast television news, very often people that are contributing guests and on to speak that they want to have questions of, very often they are a podcaster, if not an author and maybe both. It's very, very common. So you're right. You don't have to sell people on the value of being on a podcast at all. It's really. They're becoming, you know, podcasts are becoming celebrities of a sort. And people have the opportunity to listen to your podcast just as much as they do any other podcast out there. Right. I mean, people are voting with their clicking to listen with their ears.

They're voting with their ears. So with their time in their ears. But here's the thing, we started out this by saying don't create a one sheet. A one sheet is an old thing for stuff nobody wants to do, to download a PDF and get some virus. So that doesn't happen. But that doesn't mean that you won't want some kind of landing page you can direct them to if they'd like more information about your show. You should definitely, as you do get guests, ask the guests for a little social Proof. Ask them to say, how was the value that you received from being a guest on my show? What did you know? Can you say something nice about it? I'd really appreciate that. Or ask them at the end, how was it? Like, you know, what'd you think of this? And you know, have them say something on the air right then and there and save your clip and put that on that landing page for guest applications. So there's a way for you to make sure that you're giving out experience and letting people know what your show is like. If you need it. Because you want to give a sample to show because the show isn't live, have a landing page with the sample on it as well. So those are things that you can do. You can use a trailer or you can actually record one and have an example of something that you're giving out some clips from. Don't give the whole thing away, but, you know, give some clips.

And of course, as the host of a brand new show, you sure as heck better be doing everything you can to promote the show and provide value to that guest.

You know, have a plan, please, for your promotion ahead of time. So we have, when we confirm guests, we always give them examples of what we produce. So you can't always do that when you haven't produced anything yet. But you can give them examples of other ways that you've promoted other businesses or, or other joint venture partners or affiliates. And so you can always use examples like that on your confirmation page. So mine's thebingefactor.com confirm and you can just go check it out there. That's our example page. I hope that's the right page. If it's not, we'll create a forwarding URL.

Well, we'll have the link in the description and in the blog post, you can check that out. But yeah, create graphics to highlight the guest to feature them. And of course has your show logo in it too.

Right. Your picture here. Like let them imagine what that's going to look like.

Make it easy for them to share it, make them want to share it. Stroke their ego. Quote something they said that makes them look good. Or take a quote of something you said about them that's more like a testimonial. Something about them that makes them look good, something flattering. It's not that hard to come up with materials even on a bootstrap budget to do those things just takes a little effort and it'll go an awful long way.

Okay, two last things that I want to mention to you. One is that if you do create these series or these other things, you can create niche landing pages with application forms that you utilize if you're going to create that sort of guest funnel model. So this is the starting point for that. Yet another reason to do that. Those are really easy to do in today's AI world and direct messaging that you can do on LinkedIn. With any kind of bot in the world, it's easy to, like, target all the software startup founders and send them to one page that has that series on there and lets them see what it's going to be like. So they want to be a part of that. So that's one thing you can do with them after, which is another reason to do it successfully to begin with. But last thing is, don't forget the power of your voice. The whole point of doing the show is that you're in people's ears, right? So send a video, send an audio clip, reach out to your ideal guest, to the person you want on your show with your voice. Don't just put it in writing. Don't just put a generic little text message. Don't Put a generic LinkedIn message. Put a real message with you saying, I really want you on my show. Because then they know that it's not some AI farm or some assistant somewhere.

Sounds like, pardon the pun, very sound advice, Tracy.

Oh, you made me laugh, Tom. I usually try not to laugh at his puns because then he does more of them, but you caught me off guard there.

I live to make you laugh, Tracy. You and our kids. I live to make you laugh. It's awesome.

All right, everyone, be a guest magnet. There is no reason for you and this day and age you put all this effort into starting a podcast. Guests should be flowing to you, expect it, change your mindset that you are adding value to the world and there is no reason for you not to be the most valuable place for someone to spend their time.

Let's drop the mic there. All right, thanks everybody. You can find the blog post for this episode on podcasters united.org and we'll be back next time with another hopefully very engaging and valuable episode for you on feed.

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