Building An Effective Podcast Model To Attract Binge Listeners And Keep Them Engaged With Michelle Nedelec Of The Business Ownership Podcast

Wish you were one of those influencers.

With raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazzard shares strategies, tips and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor. Now let's join Tracy as she explores how to rise above all the digital noise with the Binge Factor.

Hey everyone. Welcome back to the Binge Factor. I'm Tracy Hazzard and I have Michelle Nedelik on the show today. She is the Business Ownership Podcast host and she's talking about awareness strategies, things that might apply to you. So a great episode for you to be listening to and a great show for you to check out. Michelle Nedelik is an expert in entrepreneurialism and the founder of Awareness Strategies. She's run her own series of companies for over 22 years and for over 15 has been helping sales reps, entrepreneurs and executives to continually double their profits and revenues. She not only has what it takes to help her clients build a million dollar business, but she does it all the time and she does it time and time again. Michelle particularly loves to talk about marketing automation, systems integration and support both on and off stage. She teaches the key components of scaling a business strategy, system support, and state of mind so you know how to continually elevate all four components to build a healthy, thriving business. For the past six years, she's been focusing on helping entrepreneurs bring their businesses online from conceptualization to done for you IT automation. I was fascinated by Michelle's thinking about this because reality is if you took what she's talking about on her podcast and not only apply that to your business, but apply it to your podcast, you'd have two successful pieces. And so that's what I decided to dive in with her on today. So let's hear from Michelle Nedelik, the Business Ownership Podcast.

Michelle, thanks for joining me. The Business Ownership Podcast. Look, I love that you're talking ownership. I really think that's a really good title and there's a bunch of owners, but no one's saying that word ownership. I did not find a lot of podcasts with that word in it. And I think that's a really distinctive difference between you and others. What made you choose that?

Basically, I think there's a progression that people take that entrepreneurs take from growing through their businesses, from solopreneur to sort of getting some staff around them to having some support to ultimately grow to a business ownership state where they own the business, they can sell the business. It really is a matter of kind of facilitating the ability for your staff or your team to be able to take those tasks that they have to do and run with them so that eventually your business runs like a well oiled machine with or without you. Both are great. And when you move into that state, you really have a business ownership, you own that you can sell it. It's a totally different thing than being a solopreneur and going, ah, I bought myself a this.

But you know what, I think it's really smart because what you're doing is you're sending a signal to the audience for their mindset, which is whether you're using your podcast to attract clients. Whatever your purpose is, it still sends a signal that they're at this thinking stage. They've used this term before or this is something that they really aspire to have or they wouldn't come to your show. And I think that's really smart to that. Sometimes people pick too generic of names and titles that it doesn't realize. So when I speak on stages, people always say, introduce yourself or say something about your company or whatever it is. And I don't say I'm the founder of, because a founder's a startup stage to me. So even though, yeah, that's true. I say I'm the owner of the largest podcast post production company. Like I'll say I'm the owner of. It's a different model and mindset in it, different setting the stage without my saying, we're this big and we have this many employees and this many clients. I don't have to say that. I've already said it by using that term. You're setting that by attracting the people who use that term or want to use that term.

And I love that you refer to yourself as the owner of it because it does bring on a different state in people's mind of kind of what they visualize when they create it. Clearly I got another linguist going on with me, which is awesome because anytime we say anything, it either has to create a visual in the mind of the people that are listening to it. If it doesn't create one, then they're just kind of, I don't get it. If it creates a negative one, then they're going, ooh, I'm going to stay away from that. If it creates a positive one, then you have something you can click and you can move forward with that person. And it is very important to be able to make sure that all of that marketing, especially with podcasting, has that imagery so that people are attracted to it and they can self filter and move forward with that view. So if you're in a networking event or you're introducing yourself, you're clearly going to attract people that are one wanting to buy businesses or network with people who can sell their businesses and, or like, it just creates a whole different level of conversation, if nothing else, because you're going, ooh, that sounds empowering. I like that.

Yeah, absolutely. And I like how you said that about the negative side of things, because podcasting is specifically like somebody choosing to listen to your show. It's a choice. It's not being pushed into me. So the negative doesn't work as well in podcasting because we choose to listen to something that we think is going to align with our values or give us what we need because we're giving of our time, we're sacrificing our time in an exchange for this listening ship. And we very rarely do that for something negative. Now, negative happens in social media and like articles and things go viral in a negative way in other places, but it's usually push and not pull.

Absolutely. So marketers love to solve problems and love to point out the problems we have to deal with things. But a podcast, to me is like a signature program that should be the solution to their problems so they can identify. It's not necessarily the podcast for people with broken legs is recovering from them or creating healthy lives or strengthening their legs. Then the people with broken legs will go, oh, yeah, I totally want to listen to a show about strong legs. Because it really does create that attention to where they're going with it and that they're going to stay long term because it's not just solving the problem I have right now. It's going to bring me something in the long term. And I think it's important too, when naming a show to recognize that that's probably going to happen and what are you going to do with it?

Yeah, absolutely. And so, I mean, I advise my clients a lot of times, and everyone who asked me about show names and show names, I mean, really set the tone for so much. They do a lot heavy lifting. And while I don't want people to get, like, bogged down and caught up in it, I do want them to, like, carefully consider this. And so what I normally say is, it's like you want to live in a point of action or aspiration rather than pain. Like, that's what we say when we write headlines or we do copy things in emails and other things, you go for headlines that are about the pain. But I don't like that in podcast titles. I think it doesn't work as well. And so if you are talking about the pain, it's giving an action word on it that's helping you move out of it or shifting from that from something to something, from pain to aspiration.

Absolutely. So in the whole email campaigns of things, if you've been fortunate enough to bring people to your list, subject lines still work really good for the three things you want to avoid in blowing up your business. And one of the solutions is the business ownership podcast. You'll get a ton of tools, tips and tricks to be able to avoid those things. So you can still have the negativity in the marketing to grab people's attention or to hook them in. And when considering the show, that's the solution. That's your signature. That's what people are aspiring towards.

Right. So I think that that's a really smart choice that you've made there. It's setting the tone for it. Did you really plan out who was going to be the ideal listener, and did you plan out your show when you started it that way?

Well, I started my show as a kind of a transition from I used to do executive coaching and working with entrepreneurs, especially people that had had a buyout and went into the entrepreneurial world and went, hey, I was super successful over there. Why am I not successful over here? And to be able to get them back into that state of, hey, you're exactly where you need to be, you're doing things awesomely, and let's get you into that position where you're in the business ownership position. Again, I'm not going to say just in an entrepreneurial position, because I love entrepreneurs. I think they're all awesome positions.

But you got to move beyond that if you're going to take it to the next step.

Frustrating. Exactly. In that stage of, I'm still the one doing all of this. I'm still the chief cook and bottle washer, and I want to be able to get to the point where I can afford to hire a team and get to the point where I want to bring these people on. So my intention, I wrote the book, the Business Ownership Mindset, all about understanding the different phases that we go through in life and why we think a certain way and. And what makes us successful in those different positions. And then in transferring over into kind of the world of entrepreneurs and the Technology that they need in order to be able to structure the business and grow with that. It takes a totally different mindset and it requires a lot of support from a lot of different people. So what I intended was we're just going to look at the scaling stage of a business. How do you take a successful business and then scale it? And I backed up the bus, went, they're still kind of in that growing stage. And then I did some surveys and things to my audience and people that were listening. And I found out I have everybody from onetrepreneurs to retired people that care less, but they just like listening to business still. I'm like, oh, okay, so now we get to open up more.

Yeah, you just don't know what you're gonna get. Like, I always joke that my first podcast on 3D printing, I thought I was gonna get a bunch of 14 year old boys in their garage, right? Like, I didn't really know that I was gonna get retirees and teachers out of the Midwest and that I was going to have such a wonderfully diverse community. I didn't know. But once you start to get into it and you start to find that out, you shift your show and what were some of the changes that you made?

So I started to open up my guest list to people that helped serve and support the transitioning people into entrepreneurial. Because that mindset that we transition to, sometimes as veteran entrepreneurs, we kind of lose what got us into this in the first place. And I think it's important to keep reminding people that excitement that you had can be perpetual. It doesn't have to fade away. And here's how you keep it alive and well. Because when somebody's new into the entrepreneurial world, they're continually being barded. Sometimes not all of them, some of them, depending on how they set it up, are continually being bombarded with, why don't you just go back and get a job? Why don't you just go this way? This isn't working. Doing it right. And I think that mindset is super beneficial to everybody along that entrepreneurial journey. So I opened it up to people that are helping them transition into. And when we exit a business, there's certain things that we have to take into account, like the goodwill of our business, the assets we have, the transition ability of not only the name of the company, but the deliverability of what it is that we're offering people. It's a lot easier to sell a company like Coke. Nobody cares sort of who the owner is, but it's A lot more difficult to sell John's plumbing. So we have to kind of identify those things earlier on than just, hey, I'm ready to sell. What do I need to do early in the business? And even for way back at the starting phase of I think I might want to start a company, it's helpful to know what is goodwill of a company and what are my assets.

I'm so glad you're focused on this because I talk to a lot of entrepreneur podcasts, a lot of business podcasts, and I talk to them and because they're sort of saying my audience is so broad in general, they broaden and generalize what they talk about instead of still taking the angle. That is the important part. And so I was lucky enough to interview on stage at an event this past week, Greg shepherd, the head of Boss Startup Science. And he said something so fascinating that I had really not understood as it's been hitting into my head. Your show right now is at the perfect point to intervene and to set that tone. And he said that the number one reason startups fail within the first five years of business is because of a decision that was made in the first year and a decision that was made because they didn't understand their exit strategy in mind. Now, it doesn't mean they have to know exactly the destination, but they need to know the direction they're taking. So, like, if I'm going to sell my company to Google, I need to have that in my mind. Now I might sell it to Amazon, but it still worked. It's still in the right direction. But if you're not thinking that way, the decisions you make, like how you name your company and what you do in that whole process of asset development can go very wrong. And make the decision of making it so that you can't sell it later, that there's no exit plan for you, that in the end you fail.

Absolutely. So part of what we do is explain people that there is basically four steps to their businesses. One is that setup stage where you're throwing spaghetti up against the wall, you're hoping something sticks. I don't know, do we do Facebook ads? Is our biggest seller stay at home moms, or is it 15 year old girls or is it 15 year old boys? Like it just doesn't matter what the thing is, you're just trying to figure out who's doing what, when, where, why, how, and some will work and some won't. When we get into that growing phase, it's because we start to realize that, hey, this one Product I have has some really good profitability, which is super important in a business. Most people, most business owners will sell what they love to sell and not sell the thing that's profitable.

Yeah, you're so true.

And we have to figure out how to love it or love it and be able to have some longevity to that. So as soon as we hit that sweet spot, then we can start to grow a business because then we start to let go of all the other things that happen. Even if it was really shocking and surprising. We thought we were going after stay at home moms, but it ends up the 14 year old boys buy this thing more often. And I don't know what it is.

I'm just making because they don't buy anything.

I hope it's stay at home moms, please.

Having done it in there, it wasn't soap, that's for sure. But being able to hone in on that thing and then we get better at the messaging, we get better at bringing people in, we get better at building that business. So that's the growth phase. Once we have that honed in and it's like science, we know exactly what it takes to be able to bring people in, then we can start to get to that scaling phase whereby we're not growing one at a time, we're growing 10 at a time or 20 at a time, and we have that exponential growth. But we have to go through those two phases first because then and only then we start throwing money at the bonfire that is Facebook ads or Google Ads or things like that. But we know they can convert. And I will spend a dollar on ads to make $2 every day. But it seems ridiculous when some people are spending $2 million a month on Facebook ads. Yeah, but they're making 4 million and their expenses aren't 2 million on top of that. So like you got to know your numbers inside out, upside down and backwards to get to that scaling phase. And then when you're scaling, then you sell it to somebody like Google because Google's going, why are you paying me $2 million to do the ads when we can just run the ads and make 4 million.

So how do you approach your podcast? Do you look at your podcast as, I mean some of the things you're saying there as like, absolutely applies to treating your podcast like it's business, like that same model of stages work within the podcast as well. But how do you personally treat your podcast? Is it a piece, is a marketing, is it advertising? Like, how do you approach it?

And look at It I started it off as love child. It was just get me through. Like, I want to talk to business owners, I want to talk to people who love talking about strategy. I want to talk to people internationally. I just wanted to find my posse on the planet kind of thing and was working stellar. And then when Covid hit, I was like, fantastic, because this is my sanity. I couldn't talk to.

You're like, I could do this still.

Right? I wasn't stuck in my house, which would have been very quiet. I like to be a little more vocal and all that kind of fun stuff. So it was really the savings grace and being able to look at it as, hey, this could turn into a course. Right now we have the four pieces of the business scaling program. I could go back into teaching strategies and business growth to business and have, hey, here's our online component for the startups. Here's our own link potent for and if you like it, go and talk to the podcast guest because they have the next stage that you need to be able to do the thing that you need to do. So it is becoming more content based that I can take all of this information and turn it into not only marketing for our company, we can turn it into content for learning and education, we can turn it into a networking event for I can take all the top people that are in, like all the ones that I really love to work with that are helping online businesses get online and then feed them into. We do a summit once a year called the Ultimate Online Business Resource Summit. So for businesses that are going online, what they need to know. And I can hand pick all my podcast guests and say, hey, I have speaker event coming up. Will you speak and will you help promote for the event?

I like that you're doing that in reverse. And I really want to point that out to people because we've heard a lot of. I've had guests on the show who do a summit and then those become podcast episodes. I really like that you're doing it in reverse, where you're inviting back your podcast guests because you learned more about them. You got this in depth where sometimes you get into the summit and you're like, oh, that wasn't really good content altogether. You're curating that better this way. And it's a second touch point. You already have a relationship that you've been building with them both by putting out your podcast and having that interview with them and then of course promoting it. So they already have a sense of how you work and are more likely to Say, yes, absolutely.

And I think, too, that when I look at kind of the niche market for my business, who do I want to be it classified in there? I don't think that brings enough entertainment or value or content to the listeners of the podcast. And I know there's a lot of podcasters out there that say, you want to have a conversation with these people, you want to talk to them, you want to network with them, find out who's their center of influences and do business with these people. And I go, yeah, that's awesome. Some might be at the right phase, some might not be at the right phase. I still want to get to know them. I still want to do business with them. I still want to know what they're up to and what kind of crazy and interesting things are going on in the earth. And so I didn't want to hone in on it. What I wanted to do was create a platform for people that when I was networking and going, oh, my God, Tracy, you're awesome. Do you want to come on my show? You go, yeah, let's go on your show. Let's go on the show. Didn't sweet better than, let's go have coffee. Well, I'm sort of having coffee with you, but I'm recording the conversation of sharing it with the world. Is that okay?

Yeah, which I love, because they're more likely to be straightforward, honest, really to the point. And also because they've gotten to know you a little bit, they're getting into the idea of really giving your audience something valuable, and that makes a huge difference. Like, I just so often what we think of as media interviews are so canned, and podcast is the opposite of it.

And their answers are. And you're like, oh, kill me now. Whereas with podcasts, it's so much fun. Like, oh, and my favorite question is, so give us an example of one of your Cinderella stories. Like, one of your clients went from miserable, awful, and after they worked with you, what did they get out of it? And while I'm explaining that, it gives them a chance to go, oh, she wants that client.

She wants that story. Yeah, it's running through my head, like, yeah, I love that. And you gave a great image. See, this is a skill that Michelle has. So as I was listening to the show, and is really that the way you pose a question to your guest sets the tone for the way you want them to answer it? You're not telling them what the answer is, but you're making sure that they're giving it to the right Audience view. You're painting a picture for it, making them build that story in their head. Give that example. I love the way you ask questions. So actually, really, it takes skill to ask questions like that. So you've obviously been doing this for quite some time, and it shows. That's what makes your show so bingeable to me, is that the way that you ask those questions is really guiding the conversation, but not narrowing it.

I've been a guest on a couple of podcasts. They're going like, give us your three pillars for your business. It's like, well, I've never thought of my business as having three pillars before, so now I got to make something up. Exactly.

And you're like.

I know. I had a host once asked me something about like, okay, there's an animal outside your window.

What's the animal?

And I was like, what the heck? Like, I listened to your show. How did I miss that part? Like, what was going on?

And I'm like, this may be for your eyes only, Tracy. Oh, I got to do this.

It's blurry.

It's blurry. And I happen to live in a spot. There you go.

There are animals outside your window.

I love it.

I love it.

Yeah, it was like, one of those things. I'm like. I'm like, I don't know what this has to do with your show. I'm so confused. I think I said something crazy, like a giraffe. Like, I couldn't think of anything, and it was so not. I could see by his face. It was not what I was expecting. I'm like, well, then you should have asked me a more typical question.

Right. I think it was one of those Barbara Walters questions where they're trying to take you off guard, and then how do you respond with the behavioral analysis of it? And I think I've been through too many behavioral analysis applications as a young kid to go, this has nothing to do with my job. Why would you ask me?

Yeah.

Instead of doing that, I'm just like, sure. I was told I kind of have.

To go to, like, if you had a superpower, what would it be like? That one's been asked many times. Right. But I like the way you ask questions. I really think that that has. Because you're trying to shift the mindset of your audience. The way you ask the question is doing that of your guest, which is really making sure that the conversation furthers the ultimate goal that you have.

Absolutely. And I think it's important to, as a host, to understand one. You have to Articulate your thoughts and visuals. So you may or may not be a visual person, which is fine. You can totally be an audio baby and love the sound and the notes that somebody's voice hits and go, oh my God, I could listen to that voice all day and go, okay. Clearly, if they're not seeing what's going on with their hands, to be able to explain it to the audience and go, oh, Tracy's show owing us her book cover and it's got a great picture of blah on it and just to be able to draw them in at least sometimes. Even though the majority of your vocabulary might be, oh, that sounds really great. That really vibrates with my audience. And everything you say sounds really audio esque. And I think it's important to understand that not everybody, even though they're listening to it, thinks that way.

Today we're starting from, like, you and I are on video right now. I know I'm a podcast and I've always done the video even when we didn't use it, only because I'm better connecting eye to eye with someone. Like, that's how I feel about it. I want to see your hand movements, I want to see your energy. I want to see that because it helps me do a better job of interviewing and connecting with you. That's my purpose for it. It's not the video output, but those that livestream, those that are video first, tend to have this like, well, everybody watches the video kind of attitude. Forgetting the consumption of the audio is a different animal. It's its own thing. And we do need to paint pictures. And a lot of times what they don't really realize is that anyone who looks at the YouTube statistics should know that people don't really watch the video. They're listening to it, but they're zoning out. They're not actually watching it most of the time. And so if you want them to take a look at that book cover, you saying something's going to trigger them to, like, look back at the screen and pay attention. So it actually will make a difference in the conversion and the popularity of your video as well?

Yeah, absolutely. To me, it's a lot of fun. I mean, yes, I have years of experience. Back when I was in high school, we were doing the yearbooks, like manually with photographs and cutting and pasting with knives and scissors and glue. And there were some certain fundamentals to it of make sure the faces are pointing inwards to the spine and make sure that your arrows are pointing at things that you want to point out to and those little lessons, I think, become important and ingrained in us to understand and more importantly, to empathize with the listeners. So I think as a host, it's really important to go and listen to at least one of your shows. Go away. How is this coming across? Because I know I sound different than when I listen to myself. I know I sound hilarious when I'm listening to myself, but when I go to listen to the recording of myself, then I'm going, oh, my God, my voice. Oh, my God. I laugh a lot. Oh, my God.

Yeah. I mean, we can't be too picky about it, but it is good to listen back and learn a little, and we don't always take that reflection. I find a lot of podcasters never listen to their own episodes because I'm in the moment. I did it once when I'm interviewed on another show, I like to listen because I think it's not my show. I'm not in control of that. Like, how did that come out? So I do listen to myself on somebody else's show occasionally, just to make sure. Also to respect the fact that they may have said things before and after that I didn't hear when I was on the show. And I want to respect that so that I share it properly later. So that's the one thing that I do more regularly. And I only spot check my show nowadays. But I'm like, you. We're way over a hundred episodes. You kind of get like, I'm not going to check on it as often anymore. Something's working.

So clearly somebody listened to it. That's awesome. Thank you for listening to it. I really appreciate that. And, yeah, well, before I get to.

My three things that I ask everybody about, what I'd really love to know is that as you get over a hundred episodes, there are new challenges to the show itself. What have you found to be the most challenging over 100 episodes? And what's next for you? What are you going to double down on or do more of or do less of?

I was really focused at the beginning of getting episodes out because when I first got my coach, they're like, oh, yeah, pod fade always happens at 13 episodes. So you gotta get 13 episodes out. So when I published my show, I had 13 episodes in the bucket. So we went live with 13 episodes. Because I go, and I'm not gonna have bad faith.

Like, that's not how I'm not gonna do it. I'm gonna beat the odds.

It's like, I'm already past 13. We started I have 13. We're golden. And then they all laughed at me and went, yeah, that's not how it works. And then I hit pod fade and then came down. And I realized, oh, I've got to actually get these shows. I've got to prioritize this. I have to put this in my schedule and make it a thing and make it happen. I have to get support because doing all the editing and all the finding guests and all that kind of fun stuff was getting in the way of my real job and just getting that kind of support. And then it transitioned into, okay, now I've got all this good stuff. I want to get on other podcasts and become a guest. Okay, now that I've got all this good stuff, now I want to get on more stages and bring all of this content to the live realm. And that's kind of how some of its transition. Although I also then decided to start other podcasts, which is also fun. I'm like, let's not do one, let's do five. Five podcasts would be awesome.

You and I are alike in that. And what is good more is even better.

Exactly.

So what are some of the other shows you've got?

One of them is a little salty. We'll say. I have a special right now called seven to eight Figures, and it's all about interviewing people that have made a million dollars or more in 12 months or less by incorporating some sort of speaking into their business. So whether it was paid to speak, speak to pay, keynoting, getting contract work to do public presentations, anything. And I was looking for people from A to Z. It could be on astrology, it could be on zoology. Didn't care. How do you bring speaking in? Because I think that the more entrepreneurs can learn to articulate their thoughts through the speaking realm, whether it's podcasts, podcast guesting, all of these things, you can add a substantial amount of revenue into your business, especially if you have the strategy in place to set that up. And how do you actually accomplish that? So one, I thought that was really important. The next one I had was happy to offend you, which is, just because you're offended by something doesn't mean you're going to die from it. In fact, if you understand why somebody's not offended by the things you are offended by, it actually helps create connection and more understanding in the world. And still I'm looking for comedy club owners, comedians, drag queens. I'll be completely politically incorrect. Midgets and or red Irish people.

You can say that you're a little redheaded, so.

Exactly. I'm a redheaded Irish person. I get just by existing, I offend people. And you don't have to be offended just because I speak them and they do the things I do and being able to laugh at these things and show how I'm going to offend you because I have red hair. I'm going to offend you because I speak my mind. I'm going to offend you because of all these things. But you don't have to be offended by it. And here's how interesting take.

I like the name of that and I intrigued by it. Definitely be one. I would check out whether I stuck around like that. But I think you could totally get me with those kinds of guests. So there's something really smart going on with the way you've got that one planned out. I like that.

And then we have the little blue pill for business, which is all about getting it up and keeping it up. And of course, we're talking about revenue and profit.

I like that you said salty. And you are not wrong. I love that.

If you like a little tongue in cheek and not just physically, this podcast is for you. That one is a rated show. It's got a lot of innuendos and fun stuff. Anything goes. And we're still talking about business. We're still talking about how do you build a business and revenue and profits. It's just a real raw conversation about how we do that. Oh, I love it.

So you got the podcasting bug now, and you got multiple shows going on. I love that. But there's a challenge in that, because every time you start a new one, you got to start a new audience. Like, you don't get to take the current audience. I mean, hopefully you tell them about it and then they try the show too, but you don't get to take them with you.

But it shows like, the little blue pill are not for everyone, and I totally get that. So it does have a much slower kind of growing. But I just Talked to a TedX coach this morning, and he's like, that's your second talk. That's awesome. And I'm like, what? Ted doesn't want that kind of. I wasn't thinking that. He's like, oh, yeah, absolutely. We're going to make this rock. And I'm like, okay. And then happy to offend you. Yep, that's your third talk. Okay, great.

Now you're a serial TEDx speaker. I love it.

Right?

Oh, that's so exciting. Well, let's talk A little bit about these things. The three things that I talk to everybody about. And it's to say you were mentioning this. It's like your guest shifted after you started your show and you realized like how your audience and what they wanted. So how do you go about getting great guests and what do you do to vet them?

My guests, especially for the business ownership podcast, is having a conversation with them and just understanding, hey, what do you do? How do you do it? So it's usually people at networking events that I mean and go, wow, that's fascinating. People need to know more about that. Would you be interested in coming on my show? So that one's very organic and very natural. And as I got a lot more shows and as I got more listeners, I started to get more people that represented guests and said, hey, we have a potential guest for you. Would you be interested in this? I'm at the point now where I could just listen to those people and never have to find my own guests anymore, which is also awesome. But I just kind of keep going. The world needs to know, so I keep bringing them on.

Well, especially because now you got multiple shows, so you gotta all constantly be feeding yourself and trying to figure out where to fit em in. So you all heard it here. She's looking for comedy club owners and midgets and like, you name it, and she's looking for it. So you got to suggest, you got to put that out there that you're looking for that and hopefully they'll just flow.

Yeah, absolutely. And like with the little blue pill, at first it was like, hey, if the guest was interested in being on the show, it was like, great, come on the show. And I found that what they said in the green room was fantastic. And then as soon as I hit record, it was like, oh, and I'm very straight laced and this is really fun. No.

Oh, I didn't think about that though. It's because there's an association to it, like what you want.

That is right. But some people get stressed out and then all of a sudd their frontal lobes not kicking in and they're not as creative and they're having the comebacks and things like that. So well.

And also it's like you get only men on your show or do you get women too?

Like mostly women, actually.

That's interesting. So you're not afraid to talk about that. I love it. That's so much fun. Well, good. Well, increasing listeners, this is every podcaster's problem. They all want a solution to it. What do you find that's working for you, what do you wish would work better?

What I found was that when having a consistent support team, somebody putting out the shows on a consistent basis, making sure that the branding was consistent, that the hook was consistent, that the naming convention was consistent, as soon as we got consistent, we had more listeners. And the more consistent we got, the more listeners we got. And that they are starting to kind of have that little up hook. And it also helps in being able to put that message out to all of them, because I have the Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, you name it. And I could not be bothered doing any of that. Like, it was like, hey, got a show. Whereas having a person that posts all of those and makes sure that there's the interaction and things like that, that's what people love and engage in.

And what do you wish worked better?

That is a great question right now, I think having the conversations afterwards, because again, as soon as we stop recording, then we start talking about somebody. You know what I always ask, who do you want to know? Because I've met so many people, I probably know somebody who knows somebody that can get you where you want to go and honing in on those conversations so that I can hold on to those relationships better. Because what can happen is if I have five podcasts in a row in a day, then I forget who I talked to first off and what was going on with that. I will often make sure that I do the emails and things like that in that moment so that I don't let anybody lose. But I would love to be able to hone in on my capacity to be able to hold onto those relationships a little bit better and just maintain that. Because podcasters are awesome. They have cool stories, they do awesome things for people. They're awesome, like just kind of moving and shaking.

And I love it when you're thinking about that, is that if you get it right, then your audience is growing because they already have podcast listeners, so it's easier. So I do think that that's probably something almost all of us could do better. It's like I have. That I have like this. I mean, look, it's long list right here of referrals that I need to make. And these are just because I was traveling for the last three weeks, like, it's gotten stacked up, which doesn't usually happen to me, but that's a lot of stack that I still have to get through. And I hate that I'm not doing it because it's not keeping that relationship going. Like it should. That's exactly the reason.

Smart to keep it all in one place, though. I think I can start a book. At least then I have it all in one place and I can go back and make notes all over the place going, they were awesome at whatever or I need to talk to so and so about this because that I think will help trigger my brain and keep these people alive. Because again, three years ago in doing interviews, keeping those relationships alive, I think is super important. It's not just a one and done and wham, bam, thank you ma'. Am. But Tracy was awesome and I want to keep that aspect. If anybody ever needs that. I want to be able to make sure that your name is front and center and that I can refer you.

I love that it's like old school term. But my Rolodex has gotten huge and my ability to like scroll through it and like touch into one person is so easy now, actually. Yeah, I love that part about it. So the last thing I ask everybody about is monetization of podcasts. And it's like it could be any form of monetization. Your business is growing, you're getting more speaking events, your books are selling whatever that version for you of your return on investment in the time that you're putting in and the money that you're putting into the podcast. What is working for you on that monetization side?

Well, in a weird sort of way, in a blatant way, I added to our intake form, would you like to sponsor the show? And if so, click here. Put a deposit down. It was 4.97 I think, and people just clicked it and it's like, oh, now we have to come up with the product, figure out how we're going to kind of give them the value of that. And we over delivered at first because I was just so excited that somebody did that.

Somebody clicked it, right?

Like, wow, you gave me money. That's fantastic. Certainly it has helped immensely in my networking because people 1 remember that I have a podcast. It is a form of kind of notoriety, like being a broadcaster. They're like, oh, that's awesome. And they remember that. And speaking engagements, things like that. And the creative juices of happy to offend you. And the little blue pill has got me some extra notoriety, which is always fun and entertaining too, which then leads to.

Makes you unforgettable, right?

Exactly. So yeah, I get clients off of that and that works awesomely.

Yeah. So a flow through to clients is what you see is probably the most often path for you yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think that you're doing all the things right in the process of it by narrowing your focus on the stages of it. Even if they're listening at various stages, but you're keeping their mindset focused on getting to where you want them to be. When they hit that stage, you've already been in their ear for a while and they're ready to go.

It is very exciting. And in getting people engaged, we've got a lot more people sharing the show, which is awesome. I absolutely love that. And I make sure that I thank everybody who shares the show because some people may feel obligated as a guest, but my listeners don't feel obligated at all, but they just do it. And every time I see somebody retweet or share or whatever on whatever modality it is, I'm always sure to lay on the love it and thank them. Because to me, it's hugely important that we get the word out that people become entrepreneurs so that they can empower themselves and they start to let go of the world controls me and they start to hold on to. I control my reality. And this is what I want to make happen. I think that entrepreneurs will inherit the earth and that's my message.

Well, in your so your company's called Awareness Strategies. I would love for you to leave us with some tips on how to make more awareness for your podcast. Like ways at which you think those out there with great shows wishing they had a bigger audience, wishing they had more visibility could create awareness. What are some tips that you can give us?

Absolutely. So the big one, as we've mentioned, is make sure that you have the right name and that you're focused in on a certain group of people so that they self select and understand who the show is for, because those people will become loyal listeners. Absolutely. So if you have a show on autism, they're going to talk about your show a lot. If you have shows about putting kids through college, that's a huge issue and it becomes a ravable thing. I think a lot of people right now are a little too stuck on, oh, it's not going viral. If two people shared it, it's gone viral. It's way more viral than it was when nobody was.

There's contagiousness.

Exactly. There's stages of contagiousness and enjoy and embrace those, because that kind of leads to something and you start to notice kind of, what about me do they like? What about what I'm putting out there is more fun or more shareable for them. And it's not that you have to become somebody different. It's just that aspect of you is what they're honing in on and you can just deliver more of that. And a lot of people that I've talked to went, oh, I was trying to hide that. And then people saw it and that was the thing that they wanted to share. And I'm like, well, that's weird. Like, oh, I found my people. This is awesome.

So, I mean, I said this earlier and maybe not as clear a way as I normally do, which is that what your binge factor is, and you just hit on it right there. That the self selection process that you're using, when you curate the questions, when you're curating your guests, when you're leading where you want the conversation to go, all of those things are actually helping your audience choose you and choose to listen to the next episode and choose to continue forward. And I always think self selection is a really good thing because that's doing a lot of the heavy lifting of sales that you don't have to do to screen out the wrong people. And so that self selection is powerful. And if it's your binge factor at the same time, wow, you've got something that's doing it and you aren't even involved in the process except at the very front end, recording and doing what you love already networking.

Exactly. You get to talk about what you love to talk about.

That's right. So, I mean, I think that's a brilliant process right there. But it is really, truly why your show is bingeable. It's why people are continuing through because they continue to vote with their time, they're self selecting each week. And that's something that's really powerful, right?

Absolutely, it is. Well, good.

Well, Michelle, I'm so glad you've got the business ownership podcast and some others in the works too, because it sounds so much fun to have you a part of the podcasting industry and keeping this going. Because, hey, let's think about podcast ownership next, not just business ownership.

Right.

Michelle, that was fantastic advice.

One of the things that I think was really fascinating that we dove into was this idea of audience doing the self selecting that they are really kind of choosing to listen to. Your show is really an important thing and it's happening all around. So all the different choices that you make, how you name your show, how you name your episodes, how you attract an audience, but at the end of the day, if they're not right for your business or right for what you're trying to do, then they're going to self select out because it's not resonating with them. So making sure that you're continually curating what you're doing and staying true to your focus is so critically important if that's your model of it. So I love that Michelle brings that up. I think it's really important and I think it's really kind of a business ownership model as well, is that if you're helping having your audience be self selecting your sales happening in that process, you're going to have better satisfaction, you're going to have better flow through all of that process just becomes a lot easier when they're self selecting into that process. So thinking about your audience and how you're going to attract them and how you're going to keep them engaged over time, how you're going to become a Binge Listen to Podcast Just like Michelle Netelic's the Business Ownership Podcast. So make sure you check out her show and make sure you check out the blog post for this episode@thebingefactor.com and get all kinds of other resources while you're there and check out other episodes and other hosts that might interest you. So thanks everyone for listening. I'm Tracee Hazard. I will be back again with another Binge Factor Podcaster for you to analyze, think about and get inspired from.

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