Building Your Business Podcast Infrastructure Like A Pro With Alicia Butler Pierre of The Business Infrastructure Podcast

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority Magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazzard shares strategies, tips and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor. Now let's join Tracy as she explores how to rise above all noise with the Binge Factor.

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Binge Factor. I'm Tracy Hazard and the podcaster I bring on today. Sounds like it could be like a really boring show, but it is so not Business Infrastructure. How often when I say words like that do entrepreneurs out there cringe? And people cringe? And then there's others of us who go, oh my God, that's so cool. Finally somebody's talking about something so necessary. So I've got the host of Business Infrastructure Curing Back Office Blues and boy can it be blue if it's not your core competence, right? Alicia Butler Pierre is the founder and CEO of Equilibria. It's a 15 year old operations management firm specialized in increasing bandwidth for fast growing small businesses. This is done by a business infrastructure and Alicia is recognized as one of the few people in the world specializing in it. She even leveraged her background in chemical engineering to develop the KSENU Framework for business Infrastructure and invent software by the same name. Alicia hosts the weekly Business Infrastructure Curing the Back Office Blues podcast which currently reaches listeners in 35 countries. She's also the author of the two times Amazon bestseller Behind the how to Structure Company Operations for Sustainable Success. I love that last part. Sustainable success. That's what we all want. It is the world's first first published book to focus exclusively on business infrastructure for small businesses. Combined, her online content has generated over 3/4 of a million views. See, told you I was bringing someone really successful on. And she's committed to doing the right things the right way. Have you guys heard that from me before? How to do the right things in the right order with the right resources. Like I think Lycia and I are going to get along just great and her mantra is to leave it better then you found it. I'm so glad I could bring her on. I'm glad she came across my desk. You know, every so often there's a podcast that's pitched to me by a PR firm and I was pitched a different show and I pushed back and said hey, that's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for this. So I redefined with this PR firm what I was looking for, and they sent me Alicia, and I cannot thank them enough because we had a great time on the show. You're going to really love the interview. She's dynamic, she's interesting, she's in a really amazing niche that doesn't get talked about enough, and she makes it really fun and entertaining. So I know you're going to enjoy this episode with Alicia Butler. Pierre.

Alicia, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm really excited to talk about your. I mean, does that sound funny that people are like, let's talk business. Infrastructure.

I know. Yay.

I know that sounds a little crazy, but I actually really love it. I love your topic, so. Which is a strange thing for a lot of us podcasters because a lot of us are visionaries and people. People. But to like the technical.

Right. But I think as podcasters, we can all appreciate that there's a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes. Right. Even though it's audio, there's still work that goes on behind the audio, right?

That's right. There is systems and processes, and I have a whole company because I was good at that part of it, so.

Yeah, exactly. And the thing is, we don't always think of it as quote, unquote systems or processes, but that's exactly what it is.

Well, you know, I think there's podcasts out there for every type of person. You talk sometimes on the show about the mindset and the types of people that are operations managers and COOs and in those kind of positions that are dealing with infrastructure. And I think about that and I was like, of course. Why wouldn't they listen to a podcast? Like, it's not just like, oh, let's have fun, and everything is exciting and visionary in a podcast. Sometimes we need to get some things done. We need to learn some things.

Exactly. And that's what I appreciate most about the latest season of my podcast is because the focus was on COOs. It really shed light on. Okay. While the CEOs and the founders of companies, we have the vision. Right. We have the big picture thinking going on. But then there's someone who has to follow up behind us and make sure that that stuff actually gets done. Yeah, that's that number two person, your second in command.

Yeah, I joke about that because there's the Star Trek. I always wanted to have a number one, which in reality is your coo. Right. You're number two. Right.

And so that's what I always wanted. I was like, that's my dream. In a company, I can have a number one, which COO number two. I love it. So why did you start a podcast? Did you really believe that you had a great audience? Like, what kind of triggered that for you?

Honestly, Tracy, it isn't a glamorous story at all.

It doesn't always have to be.

I didn't know the first thing about podcasting. It was actually suggested to me by a digital marketing coach that I was working with at the time. I was working on a book for most of 2018, and right at around June of 2018, I was just so frustrated because I had spent so much time working on my book. I didn't have time for business. And I was starting to get really scared and nervous because there wasn't any money coming in.

I call that the marketing roller coaster. So you were on it?

Yes, I was definitely on that roller coaster because you get in the business.

And you get busy and you forget about that.

I got exactly Tracy. And so I just had no appreciation for how focused I need it to be to complete a book, especially when you're self publishing. And so he said, well, maybe you could do a podcast. And I was like, what? What are you talking about, a podcast? I mean, I knew what a podcast was, but I just. I didn't know the first thing about doing it. And so he said, well, I'll help you get started. And he literally would record me on the phone. So if you listen to those first few episodes, the sound quality is not there at all.

Well, I always do that whenever I evaluate a show, I always go to the first episode. And I know it's rough like that, it's expected, but what I love to see, and this is my criteria as a listener, not just as an evaluator of them. And so I don't think it's a bad thing to have the distinct difference between your improvement to your most current episodes. It shows growth and that you care. And to me, that's actually the sign of a good show. I get it that it's hard to start, and I think most listeners do too, because some of them have been listeners for decade, and they were really rough back then, so they're forgiving. But if there's not growth and improvement in the sound quality and the way the show, then you go, hmm, this person doesn't. Is like they don't really care enough about the show or the listeners. So I think that's actually a good thing that you have that contrast.

Yeah. Thank you. That's how I got started. And to be honest with you, I didn't really think about what I wanted the show to be until I applied for. I think it's called the Google PRX.

Yep, the Google PRX program.

Everyone select what, like six to 12 people, or it's a really small number of people that they select for the program. But I will say this, I was so grateful for that application process because based on the questions that they asked in that form, it really made me think, okay, what is this show? How is it going to be structured? Will it have seasons? That's when the whole idea of, okay, I'm going to structure my show into seasons. I would have never thought to do something like that had it not been for that application process. So I really have to credit, first, that digital marketing coach for even suggesting the idea of doing a podcast, and then secondly, just going through that application process to participate in that program for podcasters with really helping me tighten up what I wanted the show to be and look like.

You're so on there. Because I think that if you have a better strategy at the beginning, it comes across in the show and the listener pace grows. That's what I see very clearly, is that when someone has a clear idea in mind, even if it takes them a little while to get into that, but they start to say, oh, this is what's working. I'm going to be clear about this now, and we're going to really make this work out this way. There's features, there's seasons. Right. Those work out at the end at a better rate. And we find that's actually a success tip right there that Alicia is giving us that really focusing on that. How do I want this to come across? And is this right for what I want to accomplish so the two things together. Well, I love that now you're a big operations person, so you got a lot of the systems and mindset thinking. And so I always ask people about the return on investment, and I mean that in the broader sense. Like, do you watch key performance indicators? Do you have some of those that you develop? Because most people don't have any sense that they should be doing those things. You come from a background where those things are essential. So what are you watching about your show growth that is important to you?

So here's what's so funny, Tracy, because even that has changed over time. At first I thought it was all about reviews, and because if you have X amount of reviews or downloads, that's what's going to attract the sponsors and the advertisers? And then right after about a year into podcasting was when it was like I had a. The light bulb literally went off in my head and I was like, wait a minute, dummy. You should be focusing on using this as a business development tool. So now the key metrics that I look at are for every guest that comes on. What type of business opportunity have I been able to leverage as a result of building a relationship with that particular guest? So, not necessarily trying to convert every guest into a client, but I have a guest where, I mean, it's like he's the gift that keeps on giving, literally, because he has introduced me to so many other people that have introduced me to other people that have opened doors for speaking engagements, client relationships, a number of different things. So when I started to get more focused on, okay, really build this relationship, this isn't just because we're having this interview. That doesn't mean that our relationship has to stop at that point.

Yeah, that's right. Exactly. We were actually talking about before we even established our rapport. I was like, I've got a couple podcasts you need to be on. Right.

I can tell you right now, I'm not going to let you go now that we've met.

That's right. Because that relationship build. I agree with you. That is my most important key indicator as well. Performance indicator for me. And it's the part that I love the most because I am a natural networker, and so I love that relationship building. And I also don't have enough time in the day on an ordinary day.

Right.

Today is not an ordinary day for anyone, but I don't have the ability to build the kind of deeper rapport and relationship and get to know people. This is actually a great way for me to get to know you deeper. Check out your book, check out your podcast, and get to know more people at a deeper level than I would just if I shook hands at an event and. Or elbows. Whatever we're supposed to do now. I don't know.

Oh, my God. Gosh, you took the words right out of my mouth. Seriously. I made a conscious decision at the beginning of 2019 to get out of my backyard. So I'm in Atlanta, and I said, okay. I felt like I was constantly even going to networking events. You start running into the same people eventually or, you know, that whole six degrees of separation thing. I said, I've got to get out. And so I started leveraging LinkedIn more as a way of Being able to meet people like you and people around the world. But even with LinkedIn, you can only take that so far. The podcast allows me to not only find a person like Tracy Hazard, but now we can invite each other onto our respective shows and take that relationship to a place that it probably wouldn't go if we were to just try to have a bunch of direct messages through each other in LinkedIn.

My latest LinkedIn hate is shall we have virtual coffee? I'm like, no more. Yeah. I was like, I do not want to have virtual coffee with anyone. I'm sorry. I'm sure you're amazing, but. No, but here, when I ask you on my show, right, you know, you're getting the gift of publicity, and at the same time, I'm getting the gift of getting to know you. So, like, we have that working for both of us, and so that's really where it gets exciting. And so I'm glad you found that as being important to you. And it is a shift. Like, I mean, I really do not watch my plays, and it's my job, you know, I mean, I have a stat side to my business, right? I should watch it, but I don't because I know it's working for what I wanted, and that's what you're feeling. So obviously you had to figure this whole thing out. And you're a systems and operations person, so. Because this is a question I never ask anyone because I'm sure that from experiencing it, they didn't put anything in place. Did you put a system in place for yourself? How did you organize yourself to be able to podcast and fit that into your work schedule and not have it overwhelm you?

Great, great, great question. It has been a process of continuous improvement. It really has. So my show is structured into seasons. Each season has 13 episodes. The first 12, I interview someone, and then the 13th episode is a monologue where I'm kind of tying up everything that has been covered and discussed in the first 12 episodes of that particular season. Just even what I described to you, that had to. That was a work in progress. I didn't start off thinking, oh, well, yes, I will intentionally do a monologue in my 13th episode. Each season will have X amount of episodes. There was nothing, literally nothing. I started from scratch. But here's what I do. I learned very early on the importance of. Of recording in batches. So I have a weekly show, so I know that it usually takes 90 days or three months to get through an entire season for my show. So I know Tracy exactly when I need to start soliciting guests. And then thankfully, I'm at a point now where I can get those 12 slots filled very quickly. And I try my best to get all of those interviews done within a two week period.

Wow, that's really aggressive. Good for you.

Well, COVID 19 changed all of that.

It has for most people because I.

Had so many interviews lined up and then because I was talking to specifically, I wanted to interview chief operating officers or the directors of operations because of the nature of the work that those people do. They're literally on the front lines in their respective companies. Oh, my gosh. One guy is so funny. His episode is coming up actually very soon. He is the COO for the Atlanta Police Foundation.

It's really hard right now to get there.

Tracy. Oh my gosh. I had everything booked. We were ready to go. We were even gonna follow up with the lunch, and then everything had to get well. He didn't cancel. He said we're gonna have to postpone. I reached out to him 12 different times before I could get it rebooked. And I had a really big guess lined up to celebrate my 100th episode. And he couldn't do it because of COVID 19. But my point is, under normal circumstances, I would have had most of those interviews booked and completed because I usually use two times each day, 4pm and 6pm p.m because people like us were so busy during the heart of the day. And usually we can settle down a little bit more toward the latter part of the afternoon, early evening. So that's when I like to do my interviews. And sometimes, as you know, when you're talking to people in different time zones, especially if they're in Australia or Asia, then that can be more challenging. But I do leave that flexibility for those types of guests and just tell them, hey, listen, here's a booking schedule. If you don't see a time that works for you, please let me know. We can work something out.

Yeah, I do the same thing. I keep my work calendar schedule pretty tight, but I don't allow more than two bookings a day because I feel like that strains me in terms of the attention that I want to give the podcast interviews. Yeah. So. But I do give them flexibility. I just did a whole series with Hewlett Packard. And so because we had people all over the world, I was constantly like, well, you know what? We're home anyway. What does it matter if it's 8 o' clock at night instead of 4 o' clock in the afternoon? I was like, yeah, I'll accommodate your schedule. I even did a Saturday morning, which I almost never do, but they were in Singapore and it was an operations person and they busy all week and the only day I could get them was their Saturday. So I was like, I'll take it so well. Good for you. I love the way you're doing now. Has there been any challenges with doing the seasons from what you found in terms of how you organize it, how you operate it, or how you get listeners? Do they show back up when the next season comes?

That's also a really good question because I'll never forget some advice that I received early on from a very successful podcaster. He said, you're not going to know who your listeners are in the beginning. And that can be very unsettling because it's like you're out there talking and you have no idea whether or not anybody is listening. But he also told me, he said, you'll know you're on your way if people that you don't know start coming up to you or start reaching out to you saying, hey, I listened to your podcast and I really like it. And that I can thankfully say that that happens for me now. People that I don't know, they'll reach out to me. It's crazy because I may specifically say, hey, go to businessinfrastructure TV and leave a comment or say this and interact. No, people are going to find you wherever they play.

That's right. They're gonna find you where it's convenient for them.

Right, exactly. And I can't blame them. So it could be Instagram, it could be Facebook, it could be LinkedIn, it could be an email that someone sends. What's funny to me, Tracy, is someone may reach out to me completely out of the blue and say very amazing things. And I'll then ask, oh my gosh, that's so great. Thank you so much for reaching out to me. Would you mind copying and pasting what you just wrote and posting that as a review on the website? Uh huh. And then it never happens.

It never happens. Yeah. This is the one thing is like you mentioned reviews at the beginning and I coach a lot of people to say, I wish reviews mattered, I wish people cared enough, but it's not them. It's harder than you think to leave a review. It's not a simple thing. Like the apps don't make it easy. It's not on every app. So like, if I use a certain app, there's no review function. I'm not an itunes listener. So it just, it's not as clear cut to them. They'd love to reward you, but if it was just a simple. Did you like this click? 5 stars after they listen to an episode, it would be so much easier. But no one does that, so.

So true.

Before we get to the binge listenable aspects of your show and definitely get into a little bit more detail there, you were talking about the great guests and you have some really great guests on your show that are really high powered. They've been worked for great companies. I think the last one I just listened to was he worked with GE and so you have a lot of really amazing, amazing connections there. So what are some of the best ways you found to book those great guests to really get those ones that become great relationships for you?

Oh, wow. There are a number of ways that I get guests like that one. Lot of them are in my network, thankfully, already. So the guest, for example, that you just mentioned, his name is John Reed. John and I have worked together on some projects in the past. Another way PR firms and I have developed relationships with them through Twitter, believe it or not. So Twitter has been an excellent resource to connect with journalists and people in the PR and publicity space, marketing and sales. Twitter is an excellent, an excellent tool for that. And then thirdly, other people that I am close to and that I work with, they will tell me about people in their networks.

So they know you're interested in it, so they share it. That's wonderful. I love that.

Thankfully, I'm at a point where I don't work hard to get guests.

It does happen. For those of you just starting out there, Alicia can attest it will happen.

I can attest to that. And there was something you mentioned, Tracy. I was listening to one of your interviews and you mentioned something about the 100th episode, and I was like, oh, my gosh, I've heard that. I've heard that a number of times.

It's like a magic number for some reason.

It is. And it's almost like that's your number. To be able to lay your stake in the ground and say, I've paid my dues. This is real. I'm not going anywhere. Yes. I've found that the closer I've gotten to that number, the easier it has been and the more it's almost like you become more and more of a magnet. That's so good.

You're attracting it. I love that. Now you talked, you don't really totally pay attention to your listeners, but there's Got to be some promotional things and things that you do out there to help increase your listenership. What do you do?

Absolutely. Oh, my gosh. I do a number of things. I create audiograms through Headliner. And we push and promote very heavily on social media. So LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, those guests, their interviews will also appear as in blog posts. We're starting to put some of those episodes onto YouTube. I find any way that I can to leverage and promote those interviews. Also, here's another really cool thing about the way, because it's a business podcast, when I am talking to prospective clients and as I'm really listening to things that they're telling me, I can now go back and say, you know what? Before we take any further step, I recommend that you go and listen to this interview with Tracy Hazard. Go and listen to this particular interview. And they love it.

There's a lot of my doctors and other things who do that with their patients. And that does help solidify business. So good. I love that. That's really great. Now you say we. You've been saying we, like, you have a team, right? And I'm assuming you do, and you have a system, because that wouldn't be you otherwise. And so how do you produce in a professional way? And for you, I'm asking that question not from, like, what microphone do you use in the sound, but what do you do to keep that professional organization for yourself, the scenes, and make sure that you get all these pieces and parts, like the audiograms and the social media. How do you do that?

So I will first say I'm a firm believer in that you should do all of this yourself before you ever outsource it to anyone. Because that way you will know exactly what should be done, what shouldn't be done. You'll know all the nuances. You'll understand and appreciate the value of being able to outsource it.

I was going to say the value will be very apparent to you.

Right, exactly. Because again, as we were saying in the beginning, it's a lot of work. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes, especially if you want to project a professional image. So in the beginning, I was doing everything. I was doing everything. And then as I slowly started getting better at it, the first person that I started outsource, I started outsourcing the promotion piece. So the social media marketing piece.

Now, see, that's an interesting choice. So many people will outsource the production piece, like the sound or whatever, but the promotion is so critical. So Good for you.

Yes. And I find that's the piece that's ongoing, Right. That post production phase, it's never ending. It has to keep going because you have to keep staying out there in front of people. That was my first choice for outsourcing. Then eventually I found an editor through Fiverr. Good for you. My podcast was Promoter is in New York. My editor is in Nigeria.

Wow.

And I just hired another virtual assistant. She's actually here in Atlanta, but we've never met in person. And she's helping me with the CRM piece. Tracy. So you know what's funny? I was just kind of going and going and going and going and going. When I realized that I was fastly approaching my 100th episode, I was like, well, how many people have I interviewed? And it's 85 at this point. And I said, oh, my gosh, no wonder it's becoming more and more difficult for me to just rattle off names.

Yeah, it is for me too. I'm like the podcaster who had this show about that. I can't even think of the names anymore. Yeah.

Here's what's so great about my podcast. I'm a stickler for asking people to share their resources. What is it? When you come on my show, please share at least three things that you've read that you've watched that you've participated in that you think would be beneficial to others. And one thing I've learned From interviewing those 85 people, I mean, across the board, they talk about the importance of having a CRM, a customer relationship management tool. I said, okay, because I'm learning too, as I interview people. And so I hired this latest virtual assistant, and she's taking all of that podcast guest data and she's putting it into a CRM. So now I can be even better at connecting other guests to each other, recommending guests to prospective clients that I have, and just another way of being able to maintain those relationships and really nurture those relationships.

Wonderful. I'm so glad to hear you say that and recommend that as our professional way to produce your show. Because at the end of the day, if that's your key performance indicator, is that I'm getting relationships built and it's translating into business and network growth. That's valuable to me. Then you need a tool that should be one of the first things you deal with. But we don't always. Right. We realize, aha. We have this value. So you're been doing a lot of promotion, and it was the first thing that you outsourced how do you encourage engagement?

Oh, let's see. Encouraging engagement. As with everything else, as you know, it's always an experiment. When I first started promoting, it was just a still image. I would have a cover art image that might include the headshot of that particular guest. And it was. Sometimes it would just be crickets, but you have to keep doing it. And then once I found out about the Headliner app where I could create audiograms and these short video snippets that would contain a clip from the interview, those are a lot more engaging. But even then, I had to learn that I needed to add the actual closed captioning on those audiograms because, yes.

You have to add the captions. So important. I'm going to stop you right there because I want to like mention that to the audience here. That what we find is that at least there's somewhere estimates between somewhere between 40 and 60% of videos are watched with the sound off. So the audiogram is a video technically. But if you don't click the sound on and you don't have the captions, it doesn't stop the person's eye because they're not hearing it. So you got to have both going on there. Good for you.

So I had to learn that too.

Tracy, There you go.

So over time, that has been significant in increasing engagement, but also so having language in the context of your post that accompanies that audiogram is so significant in being able to draw people in.

Now, are you picking this clips yourself too?

Right, I pick the clips myself, but Headliner does have an automated feature where they will do that for you. But sometimes there's something very specific that I want to draw out from that episode so that I specifically want.

And that's what I'm going to say is that that's just something that we found here, Alicia. Those that pick it themselves because they intimately understand their topic and their audience better, they do a better job of getting engagement on those audiograms. So that is. I mean, it does take time to pick it yourself. I know. And a lot of times as I'm doing the episode, you like, you saw me, I picked my pen up because I'm writing down a note of the time.

Yes.

So that I like, oh, at 35 minutes we start talking about this and I'm like, oh, that's gonna make a great audiogram. Like, let's do an audiogram about audiograms. That's what I was thinking in my head. And so that's a quick way for yourself so you don't have to do it later.

So for everybody listening, that's something else that I had to learn.

So it's.

You see how we've talked through the progressive stages of it. So first you realize, oh, I can do an audio gram. Well, first it was the image, then audiogram, then audiogram with captions, then. Okay, well, as I'm actually conducting this interview, let me write down, yes, you just keep getting better. But the point is, I tell everybody, just get started. You will not know everything there is to know when you first start. But you just get started.

Yeah. So the last thing I usually ask people about is the best ways to monetize their show. And in your case, you were talking about that network has value to you. Have you thought about any other way that you might monetize your show or just want to keep it the way that it is?

No, I definitely want to crack the sponsorship code. I definitely want to do that, but I just haven't been able to figure that out because it's an immediate form of income, whereas the business development route definitely takes more time. It's longer. It's a long tail approach. Which works. It definitely works, but it's just not as immediate as a sponsorship.

Interesting. Well, and you're not alone. There's a lot of people out there who want that. That's really important to them. And also for some people, it's a bonus because it's like hitting that magic hundred episodes.

Right.

Someone thinks I'm valuable. Right. An outside company thinks I'm valuable. So this is a good show. Right. So love that. Well, let's talk about your binge ability. So you said you've been listening to my show, which I'm so flattered by and I'm so appreciate. But what do you think your binge ability factor is? And did you ever think about it before I brought up this topic?

No, I never thought about it in that way before. But as I've been listening to your podcast, there's the binge factor from a guest perspective and then a binge factor from the listener perspective. This is based on their feedback. So from the guest perspective, it's interesting my ability to listen because I summarize key takeaways right there live at the end of each episode. So for those who may go back and listen to my podcast, it's not like that's recorded separately. So I'm really listening to you and I'm listening to what you say. I'm writing down catchphrases, and I didn't think anything of that, Tracy. But more and more, each guest would start seeing, oh, my God, that was impressive. Like, how did you do that? Now, that's something that I learned as part of my networking etiquette, is to be a good listener. There's a reason why we have two ears and one mouth.

Right?

We should listen more than we speak. And then from the audience perspective, I would have to say it's the resources giving them access. First of all, I didn't even know that this whole operations thing. Yeah, it's not. I always say, yeah, pushback I usually get from conference planners and any other event planners for small business related things is operations isn't sexy. That's why we don't include it. And so because of that, it's ignored, but it's needed. As you've pointed out, there's always that need for processes and systems. And so there's a topic that's not being addressed specifically for small businesses. But then the listeners also get access to these resources that they otherwise would never know about.

Right. Well, just as an example, so Alicia did this on this episode we were talking about earlier with John Reed asked John what some of the different resources that he uses. He mentioned something, a feature that HubSpot has. I'm a HubSpot user and I didn't even know it. And I'm like, I'm checking that out, so I'm making notes on my phone going, I didn't even know that. You find out shocking things for yourself in that process. You go, aha, I need that. So it is a great takeaway. And when I look at the binge factors for your show, there's actually a couple of things that have to do overall with how you operate the show, which I think most people just follow this sort of casual model of interviewing that they haven't really thought this through. And it's very clear that you have a. An organization, while you don't make it really formal, like, this is the section of where we're talking about this. Right. It flows into it, but you clearly have that. And so for many people, like as all of you know, listening to my show, that I always record my post comments after the fact so that the guest doesn't hear it. I do that for a totally different reason than you do that. So I know that a lot of my guests don't take the time to listen to the episode. They're busy. The podcasters are like, I podcast all the time. I don't need to hear myself. It's more casual for them in terms of being a guest on the show. So I can't get them to listen to it if I don't tell them that there's going to be this little extra section talking about their show at the end that they haven't heard yet, Right? And so they're like, now I want to hear what she says about me, like, when I'm not there. So it's my way to get the podcaster to come back and listen. That's why I do it that way. But you do it because those are really busy people, so they probably wouldn't listen to it because of time constraints. And they enjoyed the show with you, so they're like, oh, it was fine. I don't need to worry about whether it was good or not. But by you doing those takeaways, you demonstrated a great rapport with them. And so I love that you do that, live with them, because that, I guarantee you, that's probably why you're building a greater, deeper relationship with your guests during that time. So your choice to do it that way is smarter in that case. And I interviewed Kim Seltzer, who's got the charisma quotient, and she does her pre, where she focuses them on a topic about what she is before her guest is on, and that's her way to control the focus of her guest. So, like, everybody has a different strategy. And whether you decide to do it off air or on air with them is important and critical to the goal that you want to achieve. And that's what you've tapped into and done a great job on. But from a listener's perspective, I think that the binge factor is that it's actually really. You go into this, and whether you're in operations or you like systems or you don't, you're going into it thinking, this is not the sexiest, this is not the most exciting subject, but you are passionate about it, you're fun, you are fun on your show. You giggle a lot, which I love. And it is not boring at the end of the day. And when you define something, you don't make us feel like, well, you guys should know this. Like, you're just, oh, let me redefine that acronym. And that way, you're covering the gamut of people who are listening to your show without being pedantic about it. And I think that's really valuable because a lot of people go into an operations position without the formalized experience, especially in a small business or an entrepreneurial venture. You get thrown into having to do those things. And you didn't go to school for that. So you can learn a lot on her show. I love that. You can learn so much on there. I've been learning a lot. This is the thing, I think. Have you done a series yet with CEOs?

Oh, yes, the CEOs. Yes. It preceded the COOs.

Okay, so I missed those ones. I'm going to go back and check them because I would suspect that CEOs, this is a big challenge for a lot of us as CEOs. Who do we hire? Who do we put into this operations position is a really big challenge.

It really is. And that's why I said, okay, we're going to start off with the number one person in the number one position, and then we'll follow up with a season of the number two position and educate the two about each other.

I love that. That's great plan. So. Well, good. Well, I'm so excited for you. Now, you said you've gotten some speaking engagements and some other things for it. What have you seen happening from an authority building perspective from the show?

Oh, my gosh, Tracy, this is not an exaggeration. It has literally changed my business. I'm serious. This is not an exaggeration for everybody who's listening. Podcasting has provided the medium and the mechanism through which I have been able to really expand not only my network, but to expand my reach. Now, here's another metric. I forgot to mention that I do look at the number of countries where their episodes have been downloaded, because that gives you bragging rights also. So to be able to say, Well, I have 100 episodes and it's been downloaded in over 35 countries. Really, that's something I can add to my bio now. I'm telling you, there's something about being able to say that you're a podcaster. It stops people and they're like, oh, really? And just from the fact that you say that you are a podcaster, people know that you automatically aren't afraid of public speaking.

That is so true. You have good communication skills, right?

Exactly. And you're not afraid to be behind the mic. What's interesting, there are a lot of people that I know who are very vocal, I'll say, on social media. And then you invite them onto your podcast. They're deathly afraid. Deathly afraid. And it's because it's a form of public speaking. It has significantly enhanced everything I was trying to do in my business and it has accelerated a lot of things that I was trying to do in my business, and I was just spinning my wheels, like, oh, my God, you know, what am I going to do? I know I need to get out of my backyard, but how am I going to do that?

Now, you said earlier, and I wanted to get back to it before we end the episode here, that you wrote a book. You were writing a book, and that was before you started your podcast. It's called behind the Facade, by the way, how to Structure Company Operations for Sustainable Success. I just put it on my Kindle list right now because this is something that we're working towards, so it's timely for me. But how did your book do before and then after the podcast?

That is a really good question, and I'm so glad you asked that, because I did not appreciate the importance of being able to build a community before you put a book out there. I did it the opposite way.

So, yeah, we have a podcaster, Juliet Clark, who's also my partner on Marketing Money Mixers, which we do on Facebook Live once a week on Monday nights, and she's Promote, profit, Publish, in that order. Because this is what most authors find out after the fact, unfortunately.

Oh, why didn't I meet you guys before? I didn't know any better, Tracy, But I know now. I know better now. So, yes, sales were. They were okay. It hit the best seller list on Amazon when it was first released, but it really did well by the time I did a second promotion during Small Business Month. So that would have been May of last of 2019. It did really well. And in fact, it hit the bestseller list again.

That's fantastic. Once you get into that right audience, that boost really makes a difference. Right. And I suspect you have guests who are like, I'm gonna pick up the book now because I really enjoyed. I want to hear what she has to say.

Well, I actually. That's a complimentary gift to each of my guests. I mail them a copy of my book.

Oh, I love it. See a great way for all you authors and podcasters out there to utilize your book and make sure that it's getting the circulation it needs. So to the right type of people. Do you have any tips before we go for starting podcasters, those that are struggling to really have it take off at the very beginning of starting their show.

Just get started. Think about what you want to talk about, the frequency at which you can commit to. Because once you start, if you say you're going to have a weekly show, it should be a weekly show. If you're going to have A monthly show. Make sure it's monthly. Don't over commit, pace yourself and follow Tracy Hazard so that you can know everything that you need to know about podcasts.

Oh, you're so sweet, Alicia.

I was very impressed by you, Tracy.

Oh, thank you. And you know, this is how we met. Look, Alicia reached out like we connected. That's as this is exactly what you need to do when you find a great podcast. And I really want to make sure that I also highlight your company name. It's called Equilibria, which is a great name by the way. I love that name. It's such an interesting goal. It's what you aspire, right? That's what you aspire to have your organization sound like, feel like, look like. So it's perfect for that. So I really want to make sure that I highlighted that for you as well. But you know, the business infrastructure, Curing Back Office Blues. I love the subtitle that you have on your show as well, that it's a great show out there, everyone. You have to take a listen to it and reach out. Find Alicia wherever you like to hang out, whether it's Twitter or Facebook or Instagram or LinkedIn, you'll find her there. And all of those will be in the blog post, of course, for this episode. So I'm going to be back with you in just a moment to talk a little bit about wrap up about her show and some other things. But thank you, Alicia. I'm so glad you came on today.

Thank you, Tracy. I really appreciate it.

So I hope you enjoyed that interview as much as I did with Alicia. The topic of business infrastructure is critical to a growth stage business, critical to being able to get up to the level that so many of you tell me that you want in your businesses. That's why a lot of you are out there using podcasting, right? You're trying to scale up in that when you don't build that infrastructure underneath you and behind the scenes, then you aren't able to grow as fast as you would like to because you're still being the chief everything officer, right? So thinking about that understanding of what that means, though, when you don't have formal education in it, when you haven't gone through all the things that Alicia and all of the great guests that she has on our show understand in deep about what really makes truly great infrastructure, that's when you want to catch a podcast that is both fun and really educational in teaching what's critical and what's important in that process. So I learned A lot from her. I've been checking out her show now and again, not just from when I first interviewed her, but I've been checking it out since then. And wow, it's just still astounds me at the detail and the qualities of what she gets. And as I mentioned, she has this great bingeable factor and feature of really doing the takeaways at the end so that you hear clearly what was said and it's repeated to you at the end. I think that's a super valuable tactic and really, really interesting that she does it with her guests on the line. So you definitely want to check out her show for that. So the business Infrastructure podcast, Alicia Butler Pierre so, so she's amazing. You gotta check out the show. And of course there'll be links for everything in the blog post for this episode@thebingefactor.com and guys, go check out the bingefactor.com it's brand new. We renovated the site. We pulled it off and separated completely from feed your brand. So it's all out on its own now and it's got all the links, all the great things, all the connections up. Plus I'm reposting the articles from Authority Magazine so you don't have to go separate out for that. You can look at them right there on the website too. And I've got new applications for all of you to apply to be on the show and I really want as many diverse podcasts and really diverse experiences as possible. So if you are listening to a great show, please recommend that host. And if you are a host who's really searching for that next level and what's going on, also reach out because I have an opportunity for you to be featured as well in our future Giving Tuesday podcast feature that's coming up. I'm not sure if it's going to be on the same week as Alicia's. It might be, because I'm not sure the exact schedule yet, but it's going to be coming out there and we're going to be featuring new and underserved like podcasts that are underappreciated. So there's lots of ways for us to play together and us to get this podcast community growing and thriving and serve our listeners really well so that they binge on our every word and buy everything we have to sell. Wouldn't that be fantastic? So until next time, Tracey Hazzard on the Binge Factor.

You've been listening to the Binge Factor Podcast for more information on podcasting and videocasting success tips and tactics, please go to thebingefactor.com and be sure to listen to our other show for podcasters called Feed you'd Brand. If you'd like to be interviewed on this show as well as featured in Tracy's comment column, please go to thebingefactor. Com Guest and apply.