Committing To Make The Strongest Podcast Media Experience For Your Show With Bree Noble Of The Profitable Musician Show

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazzard shares strategies, tips, and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors, and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor. Now let's join Tracy as she explores how to rise above all noise with the binge factor.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Binge Factor. I'm Tracy Hazzard, and today we're back to doing interviews with successful podcasters. I've been doing a series on coaching and sort of getting that strategic mindset in place. And here's a podcaster I'm bringing you today who definitely did her homework, definitely figured out what she wanted to do from a strategic standpoint, and she's continued to shift it, and in some cases, and this is why I'm so excited to bring her here to you today, is that she has also, at times, decided that she needed to start a new show to make that happen. So today I have successful podcaster Brie Noble. She quit her corporate job as the director of finance to pursue music, and after a successful run as a touring singer songwriter, she founded Women of Substance Radio to promote female quality artists in all genres. She hosts the Profitable Musician show as well as where she teaches musicians how to make money by drawing on her extensive experience as a musician, online marketer, and business owner. Female entrepreneur musician is also another one that she has. So she has multiple shows going on. Women of Substance, Female Entrepreneur, Musician, and the Profitable Musician Show. We can learn so much from Bri and how she handles this. So let's take a listen to Brie Noble. Bree, thanks for joining me. Excited to talk about music and the industry related to podcasting because we're hearing so much about that right now and you've been covering it for so long. How many episodes have you done?

Oh, man, I think the Women of Substance podcast is on episode, like almost 1200. And then my other female entrepreneur musicians may be on.

2000. I mean, sorry, 220. And then I've just recently started a new show which I know we're gonna talk about.

Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, the Profitable Musician. You know, this is the thing is like, we were hearing all this news about Spotify making it easier for musicians to do podcasts and, you know, adding music into your podcast, and we're hearing a lot of that going on, but there's been this sort of podcasting Exposure you've been doing for a really long time to women musicians specifically. Tell me how you got started and why you decided podcast was the way to go.

Well, actually it started as an online radio station. So, you know, back in the day, like people really considered radio like the height of getting exposure for music. And when I discovered really back in 2000, I think it was that you could create an online radio station on what was back then live365.com I just thought it was the coolest thing ever because it was before, you know, you could have an ipod or anything so you could make your own kind of playlist before Spotify playlists and all that. So I started with an online radio station that I wanted to focus on women because I felt like women weren't getting exposed enough for their amazing music. If you turn on Sirius XM or something, it was like 80, 85% men. So that's where I came up with the plan for women of substance and just exposing music with really great messages and fantastic vocals and all that. So in 2014, I was like, you know, online radio really isn't where it's at anymore. It's podcasting. And you know, podcasting had been around, but it was really going through this surge. So that's when I switched over to it being a podcast. And I always love like old style radio shows where people talked about artists and stuff. So that was kind of the style that I did it in. And because over time I had built up this following of female artists because I was promoting their music on my show, it was just a natural progression for me to do the female entrepreneur musician podcast where I could help them with their own careers and marketing and business.

You know, it's such an interesting show to go back and we're going to talk about, you know, more recent show, your new spinoff show. But you know, women of substance, you cover, I don't know, three to five at least. Each episode of Musicians, you talk about them, talk about what they're doing, you play their song. And that's a lot of work you've built into the show.

Yeah, it's a lot of work. When we started that show, it was five days a week and we were doing, I think it's maybe seven songs back then per show. Now it's 10 songs a show and three days a week.

So three days a week, that's what it is. Yeah. You know, this is the thing. So I've been struggling to do giving Tuesday podcast, which is my shout out to podcasters and I wanted to feature five, but it's so difficult because you really need to do your research, and you really need to work into finding the right ones that are, in your case, women of substance that really represent what you're going for. And so someone has to curate that. How do you do that? And manage to put out a show previously daily, but at least three times a week? That's still a lot of work.

Yeah. So I set up a system from the beginning for artists to submit to me so I didn't have to go search for them. And in fact, I asked them to pay a little bit just to help cover my cost, because it's a lot of time to review their music, and we research them so we can say something knowledgeable about what they're doing or awards they've won or something. And, you know, that takes time. So I had set that up from the beginning, and as it had grown then, you know, more people were finding us. And, you know, it's that snowball effect where the other artists that are on the show are sharing it out, and musicians they know see it and they're like, I want to be on that show. And so then you just start getting all this word of mouth, and that's.

Fantastic, you know, and that's what I found is, like, there's that little bit of research that only you can do because you have deep knowledge of the industry. And so. And, you know, and the other musicians you featured before, so you have a comparative that you're constantly doing to say, is this good enough? Is this representative of the message we want to send and only you can do that, or, you know, only your top staff at the end of the day can do that for you. And that is a lot of labor and a lot of love that gets put into your show. And I think it really comes out in the end because the mix of the music shows a sensitivity to the one that came before it. So it's not just this mishmash of a bunch of tracks. In essence, like you could have. It has an album feel to it, like you curated it to go in a particular order.

I'm so glad that you felt that, because I have been like a playlister back since the days of high school when I used to make mixtapes constantly. And I love just the idea of, like, you never know what's gonna come next, but it'll totally feel like it fits and it belongs there and it doesn't give you whiplash, but yet it's not all the same sound either. So I still playlist every show, even though I no longer even host that show, because I have moved on to hosting other shows and I've brought in another musician who's worked with me for years, host it. I don't even edit it anymore, but I still choose all the music and I do all the playlisting because that's super important to me. I'm a little obsessed over it.

It shows. It really does show that. That consistency, and I think it's why the show is continuing to have success and continuing to move forward for you. So that's really great. Now, this is a choice that a lot of podcasters come to, is that your business and your goals and the things that you do shift, and the choice is, do I shift my show or make a new one? You've chosen to make a new one, and it's called the Profitable Musician show, which is great because it captures you right there. I would like to be profitable and still be a musician. Right, You've got it right there. What made you decide not to just shift the show and add, you know, a profitable musician segment, but not just shift the show, but actually start a brand new one?

Well, there's a couple reasons. I feel like I've really developed a trust with female artists, and I wanted to keep the Female Entrepreneur Musician show going because I felt like there was things that we could talk about there that you don't want to just talk about on any old, like, show that's only about, you know, making money as a musician. There's, like, more sensitive topics and mindset and things that we deal with as women. So I wanted to make sure to keep that going while also shifting to a way that I could serve the general population of musicians, not just women, because my brand had been kind of shifting that way. And I had put on the Profitable musicians summit in 2018 and 2019, and that had been so popular that I just have kind of shifted my entire brand that direction because I've just kind of become known for, like, teaching musicians income streams, helping them expand their profitability in so many different ways, and making sure that they're, you know, keeping more of the money that they make.

This is kind of a curiosity that I have about you. So you have a book and you have this business. Did the business and book come out of the podcast or did the podcast come out of the book and the business side?

Oh, gosh. So the book definitely came out of the business. So I would say that the business really started with the podcast. It started with Women of substance moved to the female Entrepreneur Musician. From there I developed my female musician Academy which is just for female artists to help them with marketing and business and grow their fan base. And then within that is kind of where I developed my framework of the musicians profit path and how they go from like totally unknown artist to a professional profitable musician. And that's started out with like this really great framework for inside my academy. And then I built a blog post around it to help more musicians with that framework and then that turned into a book. It's all been like kind of a.

Progression, you know, that's so great to hear and because I think they have such great synergy going back and forth. So someone who really wants to learn about the industry, about how to make it, about wherever they're struggling, they're in pain, they can easily find you in all those different places. And then they find this great support, this great inspiration in your female entrepreneur musician series. And in of course the women of substance keeping going, they get to hear some great music that they probably never heard before. So that's really an interesting play of getting them in, in whatever path and whatever way they are and then capturing them through that and giving them even more in terms of a business or service which you're doing both at the same time.

That's true, yeah. It's just, it was very organic how it happened. But it's worked out that I'm now able to serve musicians in two different ways that are both super valuable.

Are you finding women of substance who come on your show and get their music featured, become, you know, academy members, become clients, become part of that? Does it go that direction?

Absolutely, yes. You know, it's hard to quantify sometimes, but I know that it's true because or it may go the other way. They find me through the academy and then they submit music to women of substance because they didn't know about that before. So it's this great synergy about how it works.

You know, I think that that's so interesting to being able to use, you know, I'm going to call it shows as a funnel in terms of business terms and marketing funnels. But that we do find that it goes both directions. And that's what I think people are missing, that a funnel isn't just a one way thing. So I like to call it the pipeline because I wanted to flow both ways. But this is really an interesting model to take a look at. Having different shows, having them feed off of each other. This is what I do here at the Binge factor, because I also have feed your brand. I have other shows, and they feed off of each other. And you've created that dynamic where if you're interested in a particular area, like listening to the music, you have that ability to do it. If you're listening to how to take the lessons, how to learn how to be a profitable musician, it's there for you as well. And you've curated them again into playlists, which seems to be your thing.

Yes, it is my thing.

I love that. So let's get some tips for others out there, because you've been doing this a long time, and you've got to have some great ways to do that. So let's talk about our five different things that you do that make you successful. So how do you get great guests?

I mostly go after people that I love their music. I need to feel like I love their music before I want to talk to them about their career, because no matter what, they can teach me about their career. If I don't love their music, then I'm not really connected to them. So in the beginning, I would just reach out to people that I heard through women of substance, that I had accepted their music, and I just loved their music and I wanted to know more. But now, pretty much a lot of good guests come to me, which is great. Which means you're doing something right.

Well, it means that they're seeing the synergy of who came before them. So that helps weed that out and helps make it more relevant for you.

Yeah, definitely. I'm definitely getting more people that they're actually saying, oh, I listened to this episode. Here's what I love the best, is when people come and they say, here's something I see that you haven't talked about on your show yet. Or here's an angle that I can give on this subject. And I had someone recently come to me with something like that, and it was awesome. I hadn't covered it yet, and I hadn't even thought about covering it. And she had been a previous guest, and she had been following and figuring out where she could fill in gaps.

That's really wonderful. Love that. Well, over time, you had originally an online radio, which was a lot harder, I have to say, in terms of increasing listenership, because it just. You didn't have the support of Apple and all the other things that came around when podcasting came into play.

So.

But increasing listeners, do you spend concerted time on it? What are some ways that you have been able to increase listeners over time?

Yeah, For a while now, we produce specific images for artists if they request them that they can use to promote on their socials. And that has always really increased listeners as well as increased bringing more artists into the show as well, because they have artist friends. But we've done that longer than I've seen most other podcasts. A lot of people do that now. But, you know, we have 10 artists per episode and we offer to anyone who wants an image, they just send their picture, they send what episode they're on and the name of their song. And actually I've had my daughter do this for me for probably since she was like 11. I mean, now she's 17. So, you know, and we provide that for them for free because we know that if we make it easy for them to promote, then they will promote and they do it all the time and they tag me. And so that's fun. And we Also, we have 10 artists per episode at least. Right. Right now we're in the holiday season, we have more or like bigger shows. We have more like 15, but we still specifically go and tag every single artist on social media and all the channels to make sure that they see it and that it's going to show up on their feed. And so we always have them, you know, submitting their social information so we can tag them. Because I feel like if we just put it out there and just hope that they're going to promote it, they won't necessarily. But if you tag them, if you tap them on the shoulder, first of all, you're making it easy for them because they can just share that post. And also it's just that reminder of like, oh, cool, I should share this.

That's right, absolutely. You know, but it's a lot more work. And that's what I think most people don't realize is that effort of sharing them, tagging them, it's not as easy because a lot of the, I want to call it the auto posting, like the hootsuites, the buffer, the co schedules, all of those programs meet Edgar. That's the one we currently are testing out here. You know, when we use them, they don't have a tagging feature because they're a third party. So you actually then have to go back into Facebook, back into Instagram, back into places sometimes and re tag people and do it in a more manual way, which is a lot more work.

It is, and I have an assume.

But it's worth it.

She spends one hour every time an episode comes out doing this on all the platforms.

Yeah, but at the end, it's worth it. That's what you're saying is it does increase listeners, so that's fantastic. And I think that's a really great lesson that you're just highlighting here for a lot of podcasters out there, is that they put all this work into curating, like you were doing, like, building this great playlist, highlighting, finding a great guest, doing all of that, and then the mechanism of promoting it, of pushing it out, isn't doing enough heavy lifting for you.

Yep. And of course, we email all the artists too, so we're hitting them on all sides. But I mean, truthfully, our content is so good. I was just talking to my co editor, and we're just like, how can we get this out to more people? I feel like we're not doing enough. What else can we do? It's so good. We want the world to hear it, you know, And I know all podcasters feel that way.

You don't want to be a hidden gem. The best podcast no one's listening to. That would be horrible, right? Yeah, we don't want that. I know. You know, this is the thing. When I asked this question, every single podcaster who's come on this show has said the same thing. I'm maybe not doing enough here. This is an area of growth for me, all of them, no matter how successful they are. So. Yeah. So you're not alone. Well, you produce your show like a pro.

Really.

I mean, you're talking about that you have systems at the front end for bringing in guests, for making sure you get all their social profiles. You've got quite a system for production here. And I don't want to talk about post production. We just really. What do you still do? What is that makes the show more professional?

Well, let's see. I definitely have, like, a professionally produced intro and outro. I think that's really important. I always, like, pull out quotes for my guests because I think that people want to know what they're going to hear before they hear it. And I also oftentimes pull out quotes to the beginning of the episode. So before they hear the intro, they hear a little quote of what's coming up. And I think that really just helps people be like, oh, yeah, I totally need to keep listening to this.

Do you choose that yourself?

I do. I choose that myself because. And I try to do it right afterward, you know, when it's top of mind and you're like, oh, man, I love that he said this or she said this. And I just Go pull that right away. And I think that's part of the thing with having this many shows that I've had to organize, is that I need to do the work for that show right after it's done, instead of, like, putting it on the shelf and be like, okay, I'll have a day next week when I go back and do post production. It's just a lot better. A lot more quicker, too. And it's a lot more, you know, I'm really thinking about what they said and trying to make sure that I'm conveying that in the best way possible. Even if I go and do an intro for them to after the fact, I'm really highlighting the things that stuck out to me instead of waiting and then doing it the next week. And now what did we talk about? You know?

Absolutely. I agree with that. You have the energy of the moment. That's what I consider it to be. Yeah. And that feeling of energy is, you know, where that really important, that really aha moment happened. You do that really well. So now you're getting a community. You've got a group going on. You've got people coming through your course. You've got people buying your book. You've got all these artists who have participated in the Women of Substance and their music has been featured. How do you encourage them to engage with each other and with you?

Well, I have a Facebook group that I've had for, gosh, it might be four years now. It's for female indie artists, and it's for people that aren't ready for the academy yet. And I just want to give them a place to be heard and seen and understood and have that get some kind of support when they're first starting out. So that's a place that people can go where they can also, you know, know what's coming up on the podcast, get support. We have community managers in there that do some, like, live Facebook lives that end up on the Female Entrepreneur Musician podcast. So it's all becoming very integrated, which I love. And there's this support group for female artists, and we're very, very specific. We only let people in there that are actually female artists. Like, my assistant actually goes and looks at their Facebook page, and are they really a musician and. Or, you know, are they just trying to get in there because they want to promote to my audience? And so we're very, very selective. And so because of that, you know, we're about a little over 4,000 now. We could be way bigger. But it's important to us that it doesn't become a spam fest.

You know what? This is the theme with you, Bri. Everything you're doing is carefully curated, carefully vetted, and, you know, that is beginning to be this pattern of success for you. I love it. So the last thing that we really look at here is, you know, just super simple things that, you know, we get great guests, increase listeners, produce like a pro, but we got to eventually monetize somehow. So what do you think has been one of the best ways that you've been able to monetize your show? And I know you've used a lot of different methods, so maybe you could highlight some that you felt might work for others, but maybe just didn't work for you.

Well, first of all, I'm able to highlight on the Women of Substance show, the artists that really want to get their name more out there, get people to their website, or they have a release coming up. So I offer advertising to them, and that's one way we monetize that show. We also offer things that musicians would really like. So we've got some affiliate partners, like a website platform for musicians and things. And it's not just helping us monetize, but it's helping those musicians. Like, a lot of them didn't even know that platform exists, and it's just so amazing, and they're so happy that they found it. So that's one thing that we've done. And also just working with affiliate partners for different things that maybe we don't offer that musicians would also like. I've had many different, you know, music companies that they offer, you know, headphones or microphones or things like that have approached me, and I also always vet the product and make sure that I try it out and see really is something that I think the audience would want and use. It's been really successful for us, but of course, we also use it to sell our own stuff. You know, the profitable musician show. I want them to join my Rock youk Next release program or, you know, whatever bootcamp I have coming up. So I think it's great that we have the ability to switch up the ads based upon what's happening in real time.

Do you find that podcast listeners become the best clients, the ones who actually go through the chorus and take it?

Yes. It's so fun when they, like, quote back something you said on a podcast. They're like, I don't remember what episode it was, but I remember when you said this, and I really took it to heart. And, you know, this is how it changed the way I did my career. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I remember when I said that, like a year.

Ago, you know, I love it when they contradict me and then they say.

Hey, you said this before.

Why is it different now? Like, I love that when they push back on me, I was like, that's a true listener there. Yeah, that's awesome.

Yeah.

But they do. They become more active and more engaged, and they. They have better success because of that.

They do. And I really think there's just so much to be said for that connection of listening to, you know, them being in your ear, you being in their. And I know for me, when I listen to podcasts, I have that amazing connection with those people that I've chosen to follow. And it's like nothing else. It's not like watching. Just watching a video or reading a blog post.

Yeah, it isn't like that at all. So did you ever imagine when you started that there was such a thing as a binge listener, that you had binge listeners or you would ever have them?

I know that I'd been a binge listener for certain things, so I knew they existed. But, you know, when you first start, you're just like, I'm just trying this. I hope it works. So you don't really know if it's gonna stick or not. But I think that just the way that I started the radio station, it was so much just a thing for myself, and then I found that people came on board and they really liked it and were listening, like, every day. And I was like, oh, there can be. Because I knew as a musician, you can have super fans. So you can have super fans as a podcast as well.

Yeah, absolutely. Super fans. They make everything go right in the music world, I imagine. So, you know, this is. Do you put something particular into your show and the way that you have created your show because you have a binge listening background?

That's a good question. I think that.

A binge listener appreciates structure. So I do kind of have a structure to my show that I think makes them feel comfortable and that they can appreciate, but it's not like it's the same show every time. You know what I mean? But, like, you know, it's just like kids, like, they want structure. It makes them feel comfortable and, like, they recognize it, but it's not. We don't want to make it boring either.

I totally understand that. Well, what do you think your binge factor actually is?

I think my binge factor is that I Am just completely authentic. And, you know, I don't often censor myself, so, you know, I'm editing my own show a lot of times, but I try not to just be all, like, perfectionist about my editing and take things out. And if I have to, like, change the way I said something, I don't go back and make it sound like I. I just don't want it to sound like I'm reading a script. That's why I've never really been good with doing, like, YouTube videos, because I felt like it had to be so perfect. And with podcasting, I just want it to be my authentic self over the mic, just like I would be talking on a livestream where I can't go back and make changes, because I think that. And yeah, sometimes that shows some embarrassing moments where you say the wrong thing, you know, But I just think that that's endearing to your binge listeners.

I do as well. Well, part of my show here is that I get to psychoanalyze your show, even though I don't have a doctorate. But that's okay. I'm gonna analyze your binge factor, and this is really interesting to me because you have a very unique show compared to many that I listen to, because you have actually three shows. Right. And in all three shows, what you've done is demonstrate this deep commitment to the business of music, to exposing the path, the tactics, successful women and people in general in that music industry. And that deep commitment, I mean, just merely the fact that you're hitting up to 2000 shows right now is just one side of it. But the fact that each one of those shows maintains that curated quality that is your thumbprint on each one of those shows, that's what's really amazing, and that's your true binge factor, Bri.

Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that. I mean, I think being a musician myself, I definitely. I can't imagine doing these shows without having lived a lot of it, you know?

That's right.

Yeah.

You show that you truly lived in everyone's shoes and where they want to go. So what's next for your show? Where are you going to go with this? Because you got. The profitable musician is just taking off. Where's it headed?

I'm excited about where it's headed. I just have set up, like, a framework with that show where I'm helping musicians with these different pillars of their income, and I feel like there's so much to unpack there in. And especially now in the state of the world where musicians have lost certain parts of their income, and they're being forced to look at new areas. And I want to be that, you know, the person to shine the light on those things for them and get them out of that. Maybe they feel like they're stuck or they don't know where to go next, and I want that show to be that for them. So I'm excited about this show because I think it's really timely for musicians and for people in general needing to look at different streams of incomes and different ways of doing things and pivoting what you've been already doing.

So I'm kind of a vocal critic of how the podcast industry and the music industry in general treats artists. I'm not gonna hide it, because you could certainly hear me talk about that at various times. And that becomes. As a designer of products who lived her life on royalty for 25 years, I have a deep respect for the creativity, being directly responsible for business success. And I'm curious as to what you think is going on in the podcast industry. Is it going to continue to support musicians and creative artists more, or is it hurting them?

Well, I think it's a bummer that, like, for example, Spotify dropped my Women of Substance show because they find that it is a competition to their playlisting, which I understand on one hand, but to me, it's a different thing. Like, it's a music commentary show. That's the category we're under. I don't think it's a playlist necessarily, because we talk on there, too about the artists. So I was a little bummed when that happened. But I do think that it's great that musicians who are all on Spotify can listen to the other shows that will help them. The Female Entrepreneur musician and the profitable musician show. I'm glad that Spotify and places like Amazon Music are coming out and really making those more prominent. And when I look in Spotify under my name, the first thing that comes up is my podcast right now, which is weird because it used to be my music as an artist and now my podcast. The other day I was like, whoa. My podcast comes up first. So that's cool on that end because those are places where musicians are. They're just automatically on Spotify because that's where they're making income and they're trying to, you know, get more followers and stuff. So I think that's great where it's supporting musicians, but it's a bummer that they consider. I guess I should consider that, like a badge of honor that they Consider me competition.

That's right. You're a competitor. I love that. Well, you know, maybe there's going to be a better place. Like, I'm thinking that maybe Amazon might actually do better for you guys in the long run. Because your ability to tag the purchase of songs or the purchase of albums, you know, that inability in and of itself is right in line with Amazon's model and where they're going with Audible right now. So you guys may become just the Amazon darlings next.

We used to tag. We used to get people to try to download songs that they heard on the podcast on itunes when there used to be itunes, you know, a few years ago. Now it's all about Apple music and streaming. And so it didn't work quite as well. So that's an idea. Maybe Amazon will be our place.

Of course, you might have to go through a lot of episodes to update the tags and links. Yeah, like, it's like that sounds like a nightmare. But it might be worth it in the end because you might become that next Audible darling. So you don't know how that's gonna play out. Because Spotify has some heavy lifting competition, that's for sure. So, you know, it's really interesting. Cause what you were saying before about your name showing up is that I have the same name as a music artist. So Tracy Hazard, spelled with two Z is the same thing. I beat her out on Google every single day of the week. And that's crazy to me. She's a music artist, she has albums out. It shouldn't be that way, but I do the same thing on Apple. It happens if you type in my name. I show up everywhere because I have six shows total and thousands of interviews and other things out there. So that's an interesting model for musicians to really get themselves to the top of the list by showing up on some podcasts.

Yeah, I was really surprised and I think that it hasn't. Like, I've always shown up as my music, as the top one forever. And I think this just changed. So they really are going all in on podcasts? I think.

So. Bri, do you have anyone out there that people out there listening that are thinking about starting podcasts that maybe are music artists? Is there some suggestion that you can make for them as to how they might want to think about starting a show for themselves to gain them more listeners to their music at the end of the day?

Mm. I mean, I think, like, I know Song Exploder is a really popular podcast and it's cool because they're like analyzing a song and why it works and, you know, all that. I think there could be definitely versions of that style of show that you could do as a musician where it really showed off your knowledge as a songwriter and your ability. And you could definitely throw some in there of your own analyzing your own music as well, which would be fun. It used to be that they used to encourage musicians to have their own radio station so they would play. You could play your own music along with other artists. Right? And that was kind of one idea I had, but I didn't end up playing a lot of my own music on my own station. But it's definitely something you could do. You could be like, you know, the go to podcast for bluegrass music, if you have bluegrass music, and then throw yours in there sometimes. And that could be a great way to just like, bring people into the genre.

That was something for super fans. Like, we were just watching the other night, the Bee Gees documentary, and I wanna watch that. Yeah, it's really good. You know what it occurred to me is, so my husband and I have worked together for over 20. Gosh, it's coming up on 30 years. We've worked together. And so, you know, and we have a shorthand. And it occurred to me when I was watching it that the brothers had that same thing. Right? And it is these, aha moments that you get from watching story behind the stories. Right. Or the story behind the music, right? So you could become that for your own fans. Why let somebody else do it? Why not you?

Yeah, you could. I mean, there's two ways to look at a podcast. Like, that way, which would be, like, to give more to the people that already like you. And then another way would be to get more new people to discover you. So, you know, you can do both. Why not?

Why not? That's right. Well, Bri, anything else you want to share with our listeners, other podcasters out there?

Gosh, I don't know where I'd be if I hadn't started a podcast way back when, and if I hadn't have just kind of followed organically how that would take my career. So don't be afraid to start a podcast. And I'm sure if I go back and listen to. In fact, I remember on my 500th episode of Women of Substance, I went and played some of the audio from my first podcast, and I just sounded like I was asleep. You know what I mean? But I did not, and I didn't edit myself. I'm like, look, this is how I started this show. But, but now I'm here and I have this many listeners and you know, so it doesn't mean that you don't have to be perfect to start a show, but you can get started and you will get better, I promise you.

You know, I was hoping maybe you could give us a little tactical tip. Some people are afraid to put real music and real musicians. You know, like, we buy this, like, you know, horrible stock music because we're so afraid of not having royalty free music on our show. But you do it all the time and there's a proper way to do it. What tactics and what, what techniques do you use to make sure that you're properly listing the copyrights for the music and all of that so that you're able to share that? And what permissions do you get on the other side from the artist?

Yeah, basically you just have to get permission from the artist. So when artists submit music to me, they are giving me permission to pay it, knowing playing it, knowing that I don't pay royalties. So all you need to do is just find an artist that you really like that is independent. Like, it's gonna be harder to get that permission from a label. They probably will charge you. But an indie artist artists would just love to be mentioned and they'd love to be able to use that in their bio of like, my song is the intro song for this podcast. In fact, on my new podcast, I use music by one of my artists that's in the academy because I really love the style of music that she had. It's like symphonic electronic music. It's really cool. And I just asked her, hey, like, I was thinking about how the song would work really well for my intro and outro, would you be okay with, with me using it as long as I mentioned you? And she was so happy to do it. So you just, you need to keep your eyes and ears open for music by indie artists that you like. Come listen to the Women of Substance podcast. You'll hear tons of music.

There's thousands of them. That's right.

And just approach them like, you know, they all own the rights to their own music, so they have the ability to grant that to you.

Well, you know, and that's what's so interesting is when you were mentioning before about your name showing up for your music before, but podcasting is kind of trumping that a little bit. What you can do is as long as you put in your description of your episode, each single episode, you put a credit to that artist. They're getting mentioned Hundreds of times over the times you produce that show, that helps their visibility within the search engines of Spotify and Iheart and Apple. So that could help them tremendously. So it's a good deal for them.

Everyone that listens to my show hears her name at the end of my episode if they don't turn it off before the end of the outro. And so that name is just gonna be like household for anyone that listens to more episodes than just one or two.

So for you artists out there and musicians out there, think about it, it's maybe a great way to go get some more visibility for yourself. So, Bri, thank you so much for your contributions to the podcasting industry and for women in music in general, because that is unparalleled. We really appreciate you.

Thank you. I appreciate being able to come on here, and hopefully it inspires other people to start podcasting.

Wow. I learned so much from Bri today. I mean, I just got so many great ideas for how you could adjust your show, how you could create a better music that sets a better tone, how you could help the music industry at the same time. And we have to remember that so many of our players are musically inclined. Right? They started from the music side, I mean, Apple Music, and then the podcast spun off from there. We've got Spotify, who's going heavy into it. So heavy that they discontinued Breeze podcast. So you know that they think she's a competitor, which is a good thing in some ways because it means she's doing something very, very right. But in the way it also hurts your circulation. So how can you do that better? So how can you play within the rules of how music players search? Because that's what's happening is they're all adding podcasts because podcasts seem like great money makers for them and easier to do because the whole industry of royalty and music is complex and expensive, and they're always trying to find ways to cut out the artists part of the deal in the process. And we're sitting here as independent podcasters, so I love the idea of really playing within that and sort of hacking the system to make sure that great musicians get visibility. But I also love the idea of you guys playing the game of how to get circulating within the music search engine that is all of these podcast search engines. So learning from what Brie's been doing and what she's doing successfully is really important here. So I, Brie Noble, I'm definitely a woman of substance on her own, let alone the host of women of substance. Making profitable podcasters is what we're here. So her making profitable musicians, we're just aligned in that view of how the world works. And I love that what she does is bring digital skills to that. I hope we're bringing digital skills to you. Marketing skills, ideas for show structures, different things here. That's what our goal at the Binge Factor is, to really expose you to all the different show types that are out there, the ones that are doing something really right and really successful, just like Brie Noble is. And I would love to have more of you participate in the process of nominating some shows. I get shows from publicists all the time and I have to tell you, a lot of times they're not great. So I'm having trouble finding shows that I think yield a significant different viewpoint that you would be interested as listeners. And I take my curation as seriously as Brie Noble does about her music. So I take my curation of the podcast I'm bringing to you. I want to bring you really quality shows and that comes from you guys suggesting someone. So please reach out to me at the Binge Factor. You can go to thebingefactor.com and make a suggestion. You can even nominate a show directly through there. Or you can just send me a message anywhere on social media. Hebinge Factor oracyhazard. Anywhere you can find me on social media. So thanks so much everyone for listening to the Binge Factor. I really appreciate how engaged you've been and I appreciate the messaging you send us. And I would just love for you to be more engaged about what you want. So if you can do that in this new year, that would be great. So thanks everyone for listening. I'm Tracy Hazzard on the Binge Factor.

You'Ve been listening to. Welcome to the Binge Factor Podcast. For more information on podcasting and video casting, success tips and tactics, please go to thebingefactor.com and be sure to listen to our other show for podcasters called Feed you'd brand. If you'd like to be interviewed on this show as well as featured in Tracy's column, please go to thebingefactor.com guest and apply.