Defining Podcasting Success Through Network Net Worth Growth With John Livesay, Host of The Successful Pitch Podcast

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazzard shares strategies, tips, and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors, and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor. Now let's join Tracy as she explores how to rise above all with the binge Factor.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Binge Factor. I'm Traci Hazzard, and I get to interview a friend podcaster today. John Livesay and I have been friends since the start of our podcast journeys, and he's just a fantastic podcaster and beautiful human being. So I know you're gonna enjoy this episode. His show is called the Successful Pitch Podcast. He interviews top investors, top speakers, top authors, all kinds of things like that, about what makes a pitch really get noticed, what makes sure that you close the deal. So he has a couple of great books that originally he did a successful pitch book, and I might have been quoted on the COVID of it. That's how long we've known each other. When I was writing an Ink column, I wrote about him. That's one of the early ways we touch base. And I say on the COVID don't go into your next pitch alone. Take John Livesay, the pitch whisperer, with you. And for those of you who've listened to the show before, and you know what I talk about when I talk about ego bait, that's the perfect ego bait. When I said that about John, and he not only used it on his website, he not only shared it everywhere in social media, but he puts it on the COVID of his book. Now, you know, you really hit on the right thing, the thing that resonates with them to being why they feel valuable in the world and what they want others to know about them, but they want it said from an outside source. So this is the perfect example of that. And I love that. And John uses Ecobait brilliantly through our system. He's been a client a long time, and he uses it just absolutely brilliantly because he knows how to craft a phrase like that, because he's a wonderful storyteller, and you'll hear that when you talk. He's very articulate. But the other things I want to tell you about John is that he's a great, great keynote speaker. He talks to Anthem Insurance, Coca Cola. He does a lot of CMO summits. His successful pitch podcast is heard in 60 countries. So he gets invited to international things as well. He's been on TV and he does a lot of what he talks about is how to ask for what you want. Boy, I can't even talk today. He talks a lot about as an expert on TV about how to ask for what you want and get a yes. During his 20 year TV media sales career with Conde Nast, he worked across all 22 brands within their corporate division and he was recipient of Salesperson of the Year honors. He's the co founder CMO of Quantum Re, which is an equity freedom movement and a blockchain technology company. So I've also interviewed him on my blockchain podcast the New Trust Economy and he has the most adorable King Charles spaniel. And I'm so sad that he moved from LA to Austin, Texas because our puppies have not gotten to neat but someday we will make that happen. But and of course I'm putting this aside. Better Selling Through Storytelling is his latest book, the Essential Roadmap to Becoming a Revenue Rock Star. And that's really where I think John is brilliant. And I know that you're going to get a lot out of this interview with him because his ability both to tell a story and to latch on to a story, a really great story when he's interviewing, that's some of the best parts about why he's a great example of a very successful podcaster.

John, thanks for joining me. So glad you're here.

Always a pleasure to be with you, Tracy.

I miss seeing you in person, but I'm glad we're getting to see each other virtually.

Yes, that's the new mode.

Yeah, that's right. Everything seems virtual nowadays, but you've been doing this virtual for a while. You've been making great relationships via your podcast for I don't know, how many episodes are you at now?

You know, I've personally lost track. I think it's over 200.

Yeah, you have had a lot of interviews and a lot of people that you've networked with and interviewed, but not just interviewed, but like got some great advice from and then build relationships with them longer term. Tell everybody a little bit about your process with your show.

Well, originally it started out that I was going to build my network of investors so that I could hear firsthand what they wanted to hear when a founder would pitch them and I would help the founders with their pitch. And then after they had a good pitch, I could make introductions to the right investors that were interested in that particular niche. So if somebody didn't invest in mobile. It didn't make sense to make that kind of an introduction. And the investors will tell me all kinds of great stuff. Like, we listened about 2,500 pitches a year. We fund 25 and 24 come from a warm introduction. So just that one nugget confirmed the research I had read, which was only 1% of pitches get funded, and you need a warm introduction. So having that, another investor said, please tell your clients, don't boil the ocean.

That's a really interesting visual right there, isn't it?

And now I refer to that all the time when I have clients that hire me to give keynote talks to their sales teams and the salespeople, I'm working with them on an elevator pitch, I'm like, just say enough to intrigue people to want to know more. Don't boil the ocean. Don't tell them everything you do. Oh, right. Okay, then. I remember interviewing Jay Samet.

Oh, I interviewed him, too. We loved him. And he was on our 3D print podcast.

I remember. It was a live thing. You interviewed him at an event. I remember. Anyway, he said to me about failure from his book disrupt you. It's just feedback. Keep going till you get a zombie idea so great it won't die. So now when I mention that line, of course I credit him. People laugh, they remember it. So all these little nuggets. I also had the opportunity to interview Robert Kildaldi, who was the famous author.

Oh, I remember that episode. It was one of my favorite ones. You did, because he's so interesting.

Yes. About influence and persuasion, or as he calls it, pre suasion. And so this content really gave my latest book better selling through storytelling, a lot of oomph, as opposed to. I read his book and here's what I got from it, as a lot of authors do, which is fine. I was able to say, when I talked to Robert Kildaldi on my podcast, he told me this. And what that means to you is that. And that's just a whole different credibility of that story.

You know, the interesting thing, though, that I found was so many times when there were some authors that you've interviewed over the years that they actually were really more dynamic than their books were.

Yes.

So, like, it was. Pre Suasion is a hard book to get through. And I read a lot of books.

Right.

That was a tough book. There's a lot of. It is. It's a tough book. But he wasn't like that in person when you're interviewing him. He was very persuasive. And wonderful in person. And so that's an interesting dynamic that many authors and other people don't get to present themselves that way. And I think we think that about investors, like, in your particular world, that they're so hands off, they're not nice, they're harsh. And, you know. And that's not the case when you listen to your show.

Well, thanks. Well, I pride myself in really asking them questions they haven't been asked before about. And one of the opening questions is, what's your story of origin? And, man, people tell stuff about their parents or what they were like as a child, and it warms them up to not be so stiff, I think. And nobody I've ever interviewed has had a linear path. And, you know, then a few years back, I pivoted and now really interview a lot of speakers and speaking bureaus. And so I've been able to develop relationships with speaking bureaus who then gone on to represent me. And the way that happened was a gentleman named Bernie Swain, who was the founder of the Washington Speakers Bureau, had all the former presidents and Katie Couric, people like that, as clients. And he had a book coming out targeting about his entrepreneurial journey. He reached out to me and asked to be on my show, and I.

Was, of course, that's awesome when they ask you, right?

Yes. So he didn't even know I was a speaker or anything. He just wanted to reach this audience. So I said, of course. Well, Tracy, once you have a big name like that in an industry, then I reach out to other speaking bureaus and say, would you like to be a guest on my podcast? I'm giving you something as opposed to another speaker asking for something. And here's an example of Bernie. One speaking bureau said, oh, my. Out of Hong Kong said, oh, I modeled my whole bureau based on his business model.

Of course I want to be on your show. Right.

I've interviewed about nine of them now, and I have a relationship with them that a lot of, you know, they don't give speakers 30 minutes.

No, they don't.

You know, they talk about their interest in music and how that influenced their, you know, the combination of music and speaking and the business. And so it's been a fantastic way for me as a speaker to build relationships and get known.

Right. And there isn't all that much leap between a successful pitch for investors to a successful pitch to a speaking gig. Right?

Exactly. You do. At the end of the day, it comes down to usually you and one or two other speakers that they Made the final three, basically. And the irony is that's my specialty in business, is I help clients who are in a Bake off shootout, whatever you want to call it, whether you're a tech company, a lawyer, architects, executive search firms, you name it, they all go through the same process. They submit a proposal, people. And as a speaker, you know, they look at your video, they read your reviews, and then they say, okay, we'll have a conversation with you and tell us why we should pick you. And over somebody else. So those moments, that one hour, that 30 minute phone call you get to sell yourself is everything. And of course, my hope, belief is that storytelling is the key to being memorable. One client said to me, you know, we always ask if we could go last out of three contestants.

Did you hear that tip? Go last?

Yes. The problem is you can't control that.

Yeah.

And so I said, but what you can control is whoever tells the best story. And he said, oh, my God, you're hired. You mean if we tell the best story, even if we're first, we'll set the bar for the other people who follow us. So that's the aha of all of the storytelling.

I love that. I love that you always have such great stories and such great connections. But I'm sure this podcasting start was not that smooth for you. So you probably have some funny mistakes, some things that happened, what kind of things went wrong. So we don't all feel that you're just so expert, and we feel like we can take this on.

Yes. Well, the first time someone said to me, why don't you start a podcast? If people are willing to pay you for these introductions to investors after you help them with their pitch, I'm like, why don't I go to the moon? It just seemed impossible. And I realized that I had a lot of fear and I didn't even know what I was afraid of. So I thought, well, let me put some faces on it. So the first fear was the fear of rejection. You probably are not going to get Kevin Harrington from Shark Tank to be one of your early guests. He might say, I don't think so. If you don't have any episodes for me to hear or any history. But my whole solution to that, Tracy, and this is true for everybody and anything, is don't reject yourself just because you get a no. Don't reject yourself. And don't reject what your idea is. It just means no, for now, not know forever.

Well, for those of you listening out there, I did a whole episode on our Feed your brand podcast, which is like the sister brother show, like, because it's Tom and I on that one. So it's the sister brother show, the husband, wife show, whatever, to the binge factor. And John gave really talk about pushing through fear to be a podcaster. So we'll go into more depth on that. But yeah, you know, I think that it just seems daunting at first, doesn't it?

Okay, well, the technology's daunting. That's why your service is so wonderful. My whole line around that is, don't go it alone.

Don't go it alone.

Around the fear of the unknown. Don't go it alone.

That's a brilliant, brilliant advice. So what has been one of the biggest wins for you? The best authority building. Biggest win for you, I would say.

Recently interviewing Mark Victor Hanson, who's the co author of the Chicken Soup series, was a beautiful.

He's a great guy, isn't he?

Really great. And, you know, I met him at a cocktail party and he was coming out with a new book. And I knew authors, even if they're as successful as he is, want to promote their book. But it did take. I had to follow my own advice, take a deep breath, not get attached to the outcome. Walk up to him and say, congrats on your new book coming out. I have a podcast I would love to interview you and your wife, the co author of it. He wanted to know lots of specifics. People listen. Da, da, da, da, da. You know, it's heard in over 60 countries. All right, reach out to me. And then it really helped develop that very sort of, hi, nice to meet you with a bunch of other people situation into an actual relationship. And you guys did a great job producing that episode.

And, yeah, they're wonderful. So I got to. I was lucky enough, I was at an event where I met them, and they were doing podcast interviews that we were orchestrating as a part of our podcast publicity pop up. So I got my 15 minutes with them there, which was not long enough, mind you, but what you do with that time, whether it's at an event or, you know, convincing them or actually getting the interview, no matter how small it is, when you get someone that influential and that valuable, yeah, you just want to build that rapport as quickly. So I used every tool in my toolbox, and we now have this wonderful little relationship between Crystal, Mark and I, and we just keep referring people back and forth and I'm sharing shows with them and, you know, it's been great now, but that all happened in a 15 minute time span. So, like, I understand what you mean. Like, it's so valuable. What can you do in that little quick pitch right there that convinces them to go further?

The irony is their book is all about asking for what you want. And so you have to find the confidence to ask someone like that to be on your show.

That's right. That's right. There's a power in ask. I love that. Well, I want to just do this little section that we have where we talk about some of the tips of how you set up things, how you do things, how things work for you, and some lessons learned. So can you share some lessons, some stories on your experience becoming that sort of center of influence around the podcasting? And really, some of the best ways to book great guests. That's the first one.

Okay. The lesson learned about booking great guests is ask a great guest to introduce you to another guest.

Ah, I like that. Ask another great guest.

Who else do you know that would be a good guest for this show? And you can imagine, especially right after the interview's over, before it gets published. Right. When you have them. Make sure you have that down on your piece of paper next to your computer. That's a question you don't forget to ask because that warm introduction again is everything.

That's a great plan. I love that. And it goes right back to that confidence and power, too. So you're building that along the way. Right?

Right. Just assume they had a great time.

Yeah. You mentioned before when we were talking that you're not all that focused on the number of listeners or anything, but what do you do to increase listeners?

Well, I turn the wonderful transcript that you create every episode into an article on LinkedIn.

And I tell people I'm creating content every week without writing a word, which is so true.

Right. Copy and pasting a word.

Yes. So, you know, for someone who has written books, obviously that's a nice way to create that. Well, and then because of the relationships I've developed with so many of my guests, I'm able to reach out to them and say, I have a new online course based on my book. I have an affiliate opportunity. Would you be interested in promoting it to your listeners? Since we already have a relationship and they. You've been on my show. So that is another moment that I don't think a lot of people would notice. I'm running a commercial on my podcast for my own online show course. So there's lots of ways to monetize and leverage those relationships.

So you just Segued into some of the best ways to monetize. Which is my next. Which is one of my next questions. So. Great. Yeah, I mean, so it's like increased listenership or monetize. Sometimes they're not the same thing. And it's the power of the activity of that. So that's really one of my other ones is how do you encourage that kind of action and engagement?

Well, you do such a great job creating something where the image of the guest with their sound bite is created. So people who are guests that have big social media followings are much more inclined to share that link with that image of themselves and their quote than they might be of all the other shows they've been on. Especially if you're launching a book, you're on a lot of shows back to back. So having that really is a factor to increase my listeners and get people to.

You're giving them all the easy tools so they. It's like no brainer for them to. Yeah, because. And also they want to reward you. That's the most important part though, that I think you do, John, that you really establish such a great rapport that there's no way they're not going to share it because they know it was good. Many people don't like to listen to their own episode after it's recorded. So they're like, oh, they worry about it. They get self conscious. But when you feel good after your interview, then you won't worry about it. You'll be excited to share.

Correct. And you know, one of the speaking bureaus I interviewed, her name is Gail Davis. I happened to interview her right before it was her 20th anniversary. So she used that podcast to promote the anniversary.

Oh, nice.

Segue.

She put it on her website as part of the, you know, because she talked about her journey and you know, how she started off as an entrepreneur and stayed in great.

She didn't have to make her own article on her 20th anniversary. Lucky her.

Exactly.

That's so nice. Well, besides, I know you work with us, but what do you do on the production side, on the preparation side to produce it professionally for yourself?

Oh, okay. Well, what did you do?

Right.

Two separate questions, really. For me, what I do to prepare is I read the people's book and it seems so obvious it's not out yet. I asked for an advanced copy something.

And do you know how few people actually read the book? I get that from authors that I interview all the time. And you know, sometimes I don't have time, but it's barely That I tried not to do that.

And it separates me from everyone. You know, the first time I did it, someone said, oh, you know, you're one of the few journalists that read my book. I could tell by the questions you ask. You know, when you say on page this, you say that. How'd you come up with that? You know, whatever it is, very specific questions, or what I love most about what you did is, yeah, insert xyz. Even if it's just a, you know, the chapter title. And if someone's got a great testimonial on their book, I'll say, how did you get that relationship? You know, they're usually very proud of that, especially if it's somebody famous.

Yeah.

So all that is part of my preparation. And also before we start recording, I have a whole little song and dance I do, which sounds like this. I'm not going to put it to music. Don't worry.

Really excited to have you on the show today, Tracy. I just want to let you know this is being recorded. It's not live. So what that means to you is you can stop and start as many times as you want. You can cough, you can say, let me think about that. Let me go get that piece of book, or don't worry about it. And if the listeners feel like they're eavesdropping in on a couple of friends and in this case they are having a conversation, that's the tone we want. Again, the all goal is to inform, inspire and entertain them. Any questions?

That's awesome. I love that you disarm them and make them feel comfortable right from the beginning. There's no nervousness. There's none of this feeling like they have to prepare.

Right. Ironically, I did that with someone who hadn't been on many podcasts and then I said, I'm going to do a quick countdown for the editors. 3, 2, 1. And they freaked out thinking, oh my God, we're going live. So I have to really make sure that I'm going to do a countdown. And yeah, so those are some.

It's a verbal cue. Yeah, I love it. I love that. Well, you know, that's so important. But that makes for a more professionally produced show and I hear that a lot from guests. So those that are, you know, because I work with a lot of agents and a lot of PR firms and other things and they place their clients on a lot of our clients shows and that's what I get back is like there's a real distinct difference between those that prepare and those that don't and so it's one of the things I now know to ask, like, how serious are your clients about these interviews? Like, how do they react? What do they want to experience? And that helps me choose the shows, to be honest with you, that I refer people to.

If I had one tweet I was going to give you from this show, it would be your pre and post chat is more important than what you say on the show.

Oh, I love it. There you go. Editors, make sure that that turns into our tweetable, which we do here, guys.

I figured.

Yeah, so. And it's important that you're so right.

Yeah. So I just gave you what I say before the show. Then after the show, I've got my little checklist. Who else do you know to be a guest? Let them know they did a great job. That's one of the things I remember when Oprah Winfrey said, I don't care how big the star was, as soon as the show was over, they go, how'd I do?

Everybody wants, I think, the bigger star. If you ever saw Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, the bigger the star, the more neurotic about that they were right.

You can never over compliment them too much. And again, when you give someone a compliment, be very specific.

Right? Yeah, I always do that. I like, you know, I really enjoyed your energy. I thought we were in sync. I think that went really well. Like that's the kind of specificity. I love that you mentioned that because that's always really good.

And then don't make them ask. Tell them when it's going to air. Let them know what's coming.

Now you record really far out. I want to touch on that. You record pretty far out. You're way ahead of your production schedule. How does that go? Because I think when I talk to a lot of people who want to guess, I advise them to get way ahead of when they want to. They think they could just go on like radio and TV in an instant. And podcasting is not the same way. And the better shows have a backup of episodes, it can be 90 days to 180 days sometimes before you air. So how do you deal with that with your guests?

Well, if someone's got a book coming out and it's really crucial to them that this episode airs during the week of the launch. I will move someone else that doesn't have a deadline like that back a week and move them up in the production queue. But for the most part, it's all about managing expectations and just saying part of, you know, this. Ever since I had so and so on, there's been a big demand. And so it airs once a week. The next open air time is this time. And most people are fine with it as long as you tell them they're like, okay, unless they have a book.

Yeah, right. Well, your show's worth waiting for. So there you go. Well, before we get to why your show is worth waiting, I want to mention that you have developed books from your show, and I want to touch on that. Better selling through storytelling. Is that the third book? If I'm not wrong?

It is, yes.

Right, yeah. So tell everyone a little bit about the process for putting the books together.

Well, I was doing this in a vacuum, not knowing that Tim Ferriss was doing the same thing at the same time. So I thought to myself, well, I'm in good company.

I love that once you find that out.

Right. That whole tipping point thing that people have the same idea that you do. So I took 10 of my favorite episodes, and ironically, they tend to be people who have a big social media following. And I asked them if they would be willing to be a chapter in my book, and they all said yes. I also asked if they would promote the book, and they said, of course, because I'm in it. So right there you have it done. And then the transcripts that you guys create for me are so well done. It was just a matter of editing it out, welcome to the show, things like that. So it didn't feel like you were reading a transcript of a show. And, you know, it's still a lot of work. Don't get me wrong. I was able to get it done in four months and get somebody to write the forward. In this case, it was the wonderful Judy Robinette. And then you get some testimonials. So the fact that it wasn't my first book really helped the process. I know you and Tom came to the book party and ironically ran into another guest that I had on who's.

Got who we'd known for a long time. Yeah, we just saw him again a couple nights ago too.

So, yeah, he's so great. So that's the joy of the world of podcasting and authors. And now more than ever, podcasting is really important for authors.

Now I want to understand. So did you launch a book without the sort of podcast model before? So you said it wasn't your first book or this?

Well, my first book was 16 years ago, and that was just a book about selling the seven most powerful selling secrets. So.

So, yeah. So how did you find it? Did you find it so much easier to promote and launch the book than it was 16 years ago? I mean, just was it easier or not?

The writing of the book and the launching of the book, as you know, are two big different projects. So the writing of the book was much easier because the content was already there. The promotion of the book is the same whether it's based on a podcast or not. So I had the book and the podcast be the same name. So that's one tip. Obviously. Seems so obvious, but some people may think, oh, I'm going to change. Don't do that. If you're going to base your. The successful pitch is the podcast and the successful pitch is the book.

Great tip right there. I love it.

Yes, but it does allow you to get a book.

Well, I'm making a note right now because I still haven't finalized the COVID to my book yet. So there you go. Now I know what I'm doing.

Okay, great.

John's great job. Well, that's fantastic. Now, are you thinking audiobook next?

Well, on this last book, better selling through storytelling, I did use created an audiobook of it.

You did? Ah, I didn't realize that.

Yes.

For a podcast listener. I'm not an audiobook listener, so it's not my first go to check.

I understand. And actually, the audiobook is doing amazingly well. Now here's a tip. For any authors that might be listening that happen to host a podcast, I highly encourage you to record the audiobook book before it goes to press. Why? You will catch a typo, I promise.

Catch issues with your book. Right.

I don't care how many copy editors. And you and other people have proofed it when you read it out loud. It took me about six hours, three, two hour sessions.

Oh, wow, you did it really fast.

Is that fast okay?

Yeah. Compared to a lot. Yeah.

And then there was another hour for pickups like, oh, you mispronounced Hoda's last name and things like that. And your energy can't stay up much longer than two hours is what they found.

Yeah, to me that would be very long.

But I tell you, Tracy, hosting a podcast really allowed me to be a good narrator for my book. The guy said you could do voiceovers. I'm like, I'm happy being a speaker. I don't need to do a whole other industry.

But if everything falls apart in the speaking world, you got a backup plan?

Yes.

I love it. Well, you know, this is the thing, like, we were just working with a new group about Putting together audiobook plans for podcasters with the whole marketing launch and plan together. So it's really. This episode will probably air after we announce it to our client base. We probably won't announce it publicly, but announce it to our client base because they're uniquely suited to be able to do it in an easier way because they already understand our production process. So we'll launch it there first. We'll beta test it with our own clients. And one of the things that in the research I was doing, the reason I was so excited to be able to find someone to bring it on to help do with the audiobook recording, training side of it, is that podcast hosts should record where there are a lot of authors who should never read their own book.

Right.

But it would be disconcerting to your podcast fans to not hear your voice, John. Like, it would bother me if it was just some random voiceover artist.

So especially since I have so many personal stories in my book and if somebody else was telling my story, it would be a big disconnect.

It just wouldn't tell the same way. Yeah, yeah, Very interesting.

I love it when I listen to a celebrity autobiography. Goldie Hawn, Robert Wagner, whoever, and they are reading their own book. I'm so in.

Yeah. But there are certain people who shouldn't do it. Well, absolutely. I love that. Well, let's talk about your binge factor. So now we talk about binge ability as meaning that someone picks up your show and then they listen to it again and again and they go through all the episodes and at some point in the process, they probably reach out to you. So now I usually identify the binge factor for people, but I know that you know so well what really plays. What do you think your binge factor is?

I would say my binge factor is the variety of guests that I get.

Everyone has. I guide them to tell a story, and so people know when they're coming to the successful pitch. They're going to learn something about storytelling and they're going to hear really interesting stories about people who are famous and people who aren't famous but are still really interesting, whether they. They'll learn some entrepreneurial tips along the way. So I would say that I pride myself in asking the guest questions other people haven't asked them. By my preparation, if I had to guess, what I think is a sticky binge factor would be was, oh, I can't wait to see what he's going to ask. So and so.

Well, you know, it's sort of tied to what I believe that your binge factor is. John. So you sort of got it out halfway of what I was.

Please, I'm curious.

So it is that I want that. The way that you ask questions and the way that you pull stories out of people, especially people who might be a little reluctant, and sometimes you get them, especially when you were doing more of the investor, where they're not as outgoing. Right. It was harder to get the stories out of them.

Right.

And so, you know, you're great at doing that and you never do it with the same question. There's a lot of interviewers who ask the same question every single time, the same way. You don't do that. It's got great variety and deep research. You can hear it in the way that you do that. So that's really great. But what I really think the binge factor is is that you bring quality people, like really interesting quality people. And I don't have time as a listener to go out there and research all these great books that I should be reading and, you know, finding great stories out there, understanding, you know, interesting people. I. They're like you said, they. They're not just the famous ones, the ones who are getting the biggest publicity, they're all over the place. But the key factor that you have to them all is that they're all extremely interesting. And so I can't tell you how many times I've downloaded a book from someone who's on your show or done those things. So I wish I had time to listen to your show consistently every week, but I get a little backed up and then I. I get a little choosy about it. But when I do listen, I'm always like, wow, that was so great. And, oh, John asked a great question. So. And that's also something, I think, as a listener, you don't leave it on the table. Like that always is problematic when those. That watch the clock too, when they're recording, you don't do that, I can tell. No, you're not going to rush them to tell their story. You're not going to rush them to finish up and get on to the next thing. So it is the length that it should be. And that is also great for me. I didn't miss out on the whole story.

Oh, thanks. I'm glad to hear that. That really lands. And I just recently interviewed Rob angel, who's the creator of Pictionary.

I haven't heard that one yet.

That comes out in June.

Okay, good.

And I thought to myself, what a fascinating story of Entrepreneurship of persistence. And I can't wait for people to hear that. So for me, I am like a little kid on Christmas morning. Oh, my God, I can't wait to talk to you. I love that thing.

It is my favorite thing. Like, I was so excited that we get to talk today. So I agree with you. That is one of my favorite parts. Well, just want to make sure. I'm going to just do a little quick shout out to the show, thebingefactor.com that's where you'll be able to link to John's podcast, the Successful Pitch Podcast. Make sure that you subscribe so you get that wonderful story about the creator of Pictionary. So, like, I mean, don't miss that. So if it hasn't aired yet. If it has aired, we'll link it in the blog post for this episode. But if it hasn't aired yet, you got to go subscribe to the show and check it out. And you should anyway. But now, John, before we go, I want to just say, what kind of advice do you have for those that are sitting in. You heard me say this before. Permanent potential. Like, they keep thinking, I should start a podcast, I should produce a book. I should, you know, whatever. I should do these things. And they're sitting there, though, holding themselves back. What advice do you have for them?

My advice is don't go it alone. And that's the number one reason people don't start, is they feel like, I got to do it all myself. And then they get overwhelmed, and then they go down this rabbit hole of distraction. And I think you have to zoom out and say, what am I doing this for? What's the purpose? What's my intention? Is it to help people? That has to be bigger than your intention to make money. And if you have that as your driving force, you will get it done.

You know what? I think it's so ironic that this is the way you're ending this show with me, because when I wrote that blurb that's on the COVID of your book, the Successful Pitch Bug, I called you the Pitch Whisperer.

You did.

What I specifically said to people was, don't go into your pitch without John. Right? Don't go it alone. Exactly the same message. So thank you, John, for sharing that with us. I really appreciate your time today.

Tracy. Thank you for all you do for everyone and you inspire us all to be better.

I told you he was going to be incredible. I told you you're going to learn so much from John Livesay. Be sure to tune into the Successful Pitch Podcast, you're not going to want to miss it. You're not going to want to hear what I was talking about as his Binge factor. Hear that incredible way that he pulls people's stories through the show and he manages to get it out of them. And you heard his voice. It's a beautiful voice to listen to. So it's a really great show overall and I know you're going to get a lot out of it. So the Successful Pitch Podcast is available on all podcast players out there, but there will be links to his show and this episode there'll be links to any of the things that he mentioned in there, including that episode with the founder of Pictionary. And we will make sure that all of that is at the blog post for this episode@thebingefactor.com so thanks everyone for listening. I can't wait to bring you another successful podcaster and a new angle on the binge factor.

You'Ve been listening to the Binge Factor Podcast. For more information on podcasting and videocasting success tips and tactics, please go to thebingefactor.com and be sure to listen to our other show for podcast called Feed you'd brand. If you'd like to be interviewed on this show as well as featured in Tracy's column, please go to thebingefactor.com guest and apply.