Demystifying Texas Politics: How To Empower Communities And Amplify Political Engagement With Claire Campos-O'Neal Of Go Behind The Ballot

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority Magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazzard shares strategies, tips and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor. Now let's join Tracy as she explores how to rise above all the digital noise with the binge factor.

One of the best parts about being a podcast host is when you meet people out at an event and then you get to check up on them later and see how they're doing. And so it's one of my favorite things when I give a speech and somebody takes something, puts it into action and then comes back to me and tells me in real time like, this worked and this was really great. And Clara Campos o' Neal is one of those people that I met. I met her at Outliers in Austin and it's an independent podcaster event and she just impressed me with what she was working on. And at the time I think she had just started the podcast or was just about to start it like it was about to start any day. So it was really wonderful for me to catch up with her and find out what she was doing and how it's going. And so I was so excited about this call with her today. So Claire Campos o', Neill, mother of two young boys, daughter of a first generation Mexican American, is the co host of Go behind the Ballot. In November of 2021, she put her name on the ballot and ran for office for the first time for House District 51 in Texas. While she didn't win the race, she.

Had learned a great deal about our.

Community, the inner workings of local politics and the importance of putting yourself out. The act of courage propelled Claire to launch a podcast, Go behind the Ballot with her co host Nicole Abshire. Together they strive to demystify Texas politics one issue at a time. Their show is nonpartisan, pro democracy, conversational and always edutaining. In Claire's free time, she volunteers as the president of the Delval Education foundation and she is passionate about ensuring that Texas students have access to high quality public education and and every opportunity to succeed in school. Nicole and Claire have just done a fantastic job with deep diving into these amazing topics that even though they're talking Texas politics, they transfer into our communities, into other places that you didn't match. And I found lots of commonality to things that I see happening right here In California, such a different state in terms of politics. It's fascinating to hear what they've discovered along the way and to talk about the nuances of this style of podcast. A political podcast could be a quagmire. It could be really difficult. It could be hard to get people to come on the show. It could be hard to get people to refer it and tell others that they're watching your show and listening to your show. So this is something that's really interesting, and I'm so glad that she was willing to come on the show and talk about what she's built with go behind the ballot and really dive into some of the things that they're going to be trying in the future as well. So let's hear from Claire Campos o'. Neill. Go behind the ballot.

Claire, I am so glad to, like, reconnect with you. We met in person in Texas, and we've had a few conversations, a few strategies. And I have to say that my research this time of listening to the podcast was just I was lighting up at how far it's come. And do you feel that way that, like, from episode one to episode 70, like, you really come far?

I do. You know, it's funny because we recently had a panel at south by Southwest and the Civic Engagement tracks our shows about civic engagement and politics. And this time last year, my husband and I were staying in downtown Austin for a staycation. South by had just ended. And I remember thinking, huh, I wonder what it's like to go to South By. And I wonder what it's like to have a podcast. I remember researching podcasting that week, being like, maybe I could do this. And then it's like a year later, not only am I doing it, but I'm like, at south by as a speaker. So it is pretty amazing to see how quickly things can happen when you stick with it and you persevere. And I'm like, I can't believe I'm here. So it is cool.

You have an episode that I want to make sure that I connect into the blog post for this episode with me here. But you have an episode where you recapture the end of the year and what was some of your favorite parts about the year? And I thought it was so great because normally I hear those episodes and those episodes are like, oh, and I love this episode and this guest. And they're just like Carnival are highlighting episodes they want people to listen to. But your takeaways were not that. Your takeaways are about what you got back from it. And Your takeaways were what you learned, how it felt when people engaged with you. I thought that was just really beautiful. Tell the audience a little bit about this idea of the first time you heard back from someone who is listening to your show. How did that feel and what was that experience?

Yeah, it's really rewarding and exciting. Like, I'm someone who has listened to podcasts for 15 years, and podcasting just started to be a thing because I had a job at the time with a lot of downtime, so I would just listen to shows because nobody cared. And I was like, this is great. I get to sit here, work, and learn. I loved it. So when we created our show, I wanted it to be like the shows I loved, where I was learning interesting things throughout the day. And I remember one of the first women that we heard back from had found our show just not Googling, but, like, searching and her podcast, search bar about charter schools in Texas. And she sent us an email, and she was like, this is something I had no knowledge on. I was so confused. I couldn't find any good information. But I found your show, and it just. Everything started to make sense. And then we connected her to our guest, and our guest has since helped her further understand this really complicated issue. It was like the show I wish I had found year ago before I understood anything about charter schools. So we truly do love the learning journey for ourselves and for our listeners, because, I don't know, like, it just lights up my brain, and I like when I can understand and make sense of the world. And I feel like we're doing that for our listeners and for ourselves. And the more we hear it, the more it's like, oh, yeah, I missed that thing. And then me and Nicole, my co host, will talk about it online, offline, but we just, like, can't get enough. We're just. Let's keep going and. And find out more and connect the dots.

The choice of a co host is great for you because, I mean, I think that this topic, the topic of politics in general, especially local politics, like, the more viewpoints, the better that is. And I think that that's interesting. How did that. Was that difficult to make it happen? I mean, I know this because co hosting can be such a difficult part for lots of people. But how did it come about for you and Nicole?

It came about pretty easily. So I guess the way the podcast idea came about was I had run for office. I was running to be the Democratic nominee for House District 51 here in Texas. I lost that race but learned a lot. And I thought I was going to write a book about that experience and how to run as, like a super duper grassroots candidate. I raised $15,000, which is not a lot for that kind of race, but I was like, I'm going to try and throw my hat in the ring and. And I wanted to write about how to do that and also if you don't win, to see the other opportunities that come about from putting your name out there. So I talked to Nicole because she had written a book and self published, and as we were discussing writing a book and politics, she was like, you have to build an audience. And then slowly it was just like, maybe we should do a podcast about politics. And at first I thought it would be about running for office, but then because Nicole's pretty new to this space, she was like, maybe we should first explain things to people. I was like, yeah, that's smart.

We should do that.

We had met in an acting class maybe seven years ago, so we had a good rapport, good relationship, but she's just, I don't know, like, I think our brains track similarly. So she'll spark ideas for me and I will for her. So it's easy for us to continue that free thinking and it's not difficult.

I don't.

Maybe we're just lucky. But I'm always like, yeah, Nicole, that's a great point. And that's a great point.

The co hosting in your situation is done really well. And that's what I want people to take a listen to and understand that is that there's an interesting dynamic of maybe kind of playing off of each other. And you do that really well, which is a sign of really good friends or some people who know each other really well, or in this case, I think similar goals and mindshare into, like, what you want to hear and get out of your show. You're both on the right track for that. You're not competing against that. And that's not that common, to be honest with you. It's why most closest hosting doesn't work really well. It's because they're not aligned with their ultimate goal of what they want to do. I think you guys have done a great job of doing that exploration and explaining without explaining, which would be so boring. And it's not that at all.

And Nicole, she says, like, I'm the one that comes to this not really having the political vernacular, the jargon, or people always speak in shorthand when it comes to politics. And I'm starting to do that, too, just because I've been around it a little bit longer, not my whole life, like some people we interview, maybe in the last five years. But she'll be like, can we stop real quick and break this down and make sure we're all on the same page? And I appreciate that she does that. She's also really good at elaborating and expanding and recapping things that have been discussed, because I'm learning just, like, the importance of repetition for myself and for our listeners. That's how you really, I think, start to influence people and maybe change their minds a little bit and give them new food for thought.

I always go over everybody's binge factor. But what was the most impressive part for me, the part that would make me binge on your show, and I'm not even in Texas, is that there is this thread that you pull through all of the shows where you're starting to uncover things like dark money, Christian nationalism, the pattern of how it works in politics, and you're pulling that through and sort of connecting the threads from the various episodes and the various experts and people you're talking to in such a great way that I'm starting to see that pattern revealed to me but not pushed at me as a listener. And I think that helps me get to that aha place a lot faster than it would if you just said, this is how it is and this is what we have to fight against.

Yeah, no, I appreciate that. I mean, we were really intentional about not wanting to be super partisan or, like, talk radio. Like, oh, these. This side. They're a bunch of idiots and they don't know anything.

No shock jockeying. We just talked about that on other show the other day.

Yeah, I don't like that. Honestly, I grew up with that being in the background, like, the car radio, and we were going on road trips, and it's very unappealing to me. So, yeah, it's like, I want to make the show I want to listen to, and the podcast I listen to are kind of in that newsy space. But we're like, we're not journalists, but we are curious, and we want to pull the thread and connect the dots. We say, too, like, at the end of the day, it's about following our curiosity and trying to reveal the abysmal machinery that's controlling politics in our lives. And, like, why is it this way? And then once you can actually see that, then saying, huh, okay, well, do we like this? If we don't like it, how do we change it just like walking step by step and things aren't siloed. We're learning, like, everything is so interconnected. And the more you can connect it, the more you can, I think, come at it holistically and come up with better solutions. Because I think a lot of people do want better solutions. A lot of people are like, oh, the government doesn't work. It's like, there's a reason it doesn't work.

It can work.

Different political choices can be made.

It's so interesting that you say that, because I was thinking that that's the whole point of the curiosity. Part of it is that you built this into the model of the show. So you get to explore these things. You get to go down this path, find out what's really going on with some of the dark money or something like that. That just is of interest to understand how does this work. But at the end of the day, I think your biggest return on investment could come from the fact that you're going to see a path that no one else did. And then you're going to say, this is how I could run again next time in a different way that has a better chance of success.

Yeah, I could see that for sure. And I mean, the exciting thing is too, about having the podcast is we get to talk to people who will see on, like, Instagram or Twitter or whatever. And I'm like, oh, I love what they're doing. Like, because we tend to highlight people who are kind of doing what we're doing. Like, this doesn't make sense. Let's go figure it out. And then we're like, okay, come talk to us and help our audience plug into the thing you were exploring, like the Chris Tackett episode about dark money and politics. He was just a guy who helped a friend run for office. Couldn't understand how his friend lost because his friend was a superintendent of the local district. Should have had all the support, but this other candidate had all this money, and he was like, where did this money come from? And he started looking under the hood. And now that's what he does specifically for Texas politics. And it's amazing what he's done by following his curiosity. So being able to elevate people like Chris and some of our other guests is really rewarding a relate. Like, we get to have a relationship with him now, a better relationship. But also our listeners are aware of them and their cool work.

You know, that's something so interesting. I had listened to that episode as I was going through it, and it's Something that started to shift here in California. So we have all these ballot initiatives all the time. You prop. Whatever. If you've ever been in the state of California during the year leading up to an election, all you hear are prop number ads all over the place. There's a ton of money in them. But the successful campaigns against those props, because they're usually sponsored by some dark money somewhere, have been only hitting on who's behind the money, who's behind the proposition, and that's how they're getting defeated again and again and again is revealing that. So they figured out the formula to fight somebody else bringing money into the state. Because Californians hate the idea of some other state trying to tell us what to do, which I'm sure Texans do as well. Right?

Yeah, but.

So if you can reveal that that's actually a winning strategy, which is so interest that that's the way he decided to go down to look at.

Yeah, and people don't like being deceived. It's very frustrating when you feel like the rugs pulled out from under you. Like, I thought I was supporting this thing that was going to make my life better, but it's actually doing the opposite. People get really mad once they start to put that together. And Chris does a good job of showing how. Like in Texas politics, like in that episode, there's these West Texas billionaires who fund elections, but they make it look very grassroots and organic. And once you start following the money, you're like, wait a minute, it's these two guys that are pretending to be this massive coalition. But it's not really that. People don't like that. No matter if you're a Republican or a Democrat, they're like, I want a person of integrity and who aligns with my values, but when you deceive me, I don't know if I'm cool with this all of a sudden. So, yeah, I think at the end of the day, people want to know what they're getting themselves into. But I think we see a lot of, I guess, voter apathy because people are very cynical and we're trying to be like, don't be so cynical. Like, there is a way to re engage. But it is hard because it feels like you have to fact check so much now. And you're like, can I trust them? Yeah.

Yeah. Well, you know, I think this is the topic that I wanted to head into and really talk about is that by choosing podcasting, you've chosen something that's long form and politics is a long game that Podcasting is a long game, as I'm sure you figured out already, but coalition building is an even longer game.

Right.

And so you've tied in something where the model of how you're promoting, gathering people into your community, the mission that you're on, to look at things and change things, is matched with the media type you chose. And are you finding that that match is actually a much more winning strategy for you in terms of, like, building your list and other things like that?

I think so. I think podcasting is a really good match for us because like I was saying, I think people have a really hard time entering into politics because it's complicated, it's overwhelming, and you don't know who to trust. So I think what Nicole and I try to do a lot in our show is build trust with our audience. And by that, not, like I said, bashing the other side or saying this idea is stupid. It's like there's always a reason why someone's voting a particular way and to put a label on them. It's like they're idiots. Like they're not there's a reason they're doing that. So, like, let's understand that reason and maybe explain why our reason could be better. But podcasting is great because you tune in well for us, our show's two times a week and you would kind of develop that relationship with the hosts and hopefully some trust. And when they bring on guests, that sort of the trust they have for you lends it to the guest as well. So we pick people who are a good fit for the topic, but also who we feel like are a good, trustworthy professional resource, not someone who's just like, this is my opinion, like, they actually do their research on particular things. And I don't know, like, we also have a newsletter now too, which helps recap our shows because they are a little bit longer. They're about 40 to 50 minutes. I know not everyone has all the time to listen, so you can at least get a quick snapshot of what we talked about. And hopefully if you see the newsletter and you're like, oh, actually that sounds fascinating, let me go hear the show. So we try to get them both ways, depending on how their week looks and if they have time to sit and listen or do laundry and listen or drive and listen, you listen. I listen, like non stop. So I'll fit it in there somehow.

Your subscriber base, your email list has really grown over the last year in a way that when you said you raised $15,000 in your campaign, I was thinking, God, you can hardly build a list the size of yours right now with that money. Like, it's really hard to do that. So the fact that your email subscriber base is growing, that that is tapping into a broader movement over time, that's going to be a powerful part of any future platform for you, whether it's joining in to fight food insecurity or joining in to help the next candidate get elected, or yourself again.

But you mentioned something about timeliness and that you do this twice a week. And I think that that's the interesting part about is you're resisting because podcasting is a long game and you know that it's there and people listen at a different pace, that you're fighting the opportunity to be, I'm going to say reactive. So obviously you have a school shooting happening. You have big things going on in the state, changes in bills and laws and things that are going on, and you want to be relevant to those things, but you also don't want to be reactive. And that's maybe the place for TikTok and not necessarily a place for your podcast. And you guys have resisted that to some extent and instead said, okay, well, how do I feel about this? Let me explore what might be underneath this, and let's talk about that. I thought that was really interesting model that you're building on here. Keeping that in mind. Is it hard to resist that? Sort of like, let's comment on what's going on.

Yeah, it has been pretty easy to resist it. So we do our show in series and they've been about seven weeks per series so far. So like, first public education, then we did elections, which kind of did time up, like literal timing wise, leading up to the midterms. But it wasn't like, vote for this candidate or this initiative. It was like, what does an elections administrator do? Like, now that voting is coming around, maybe we should understand their role and why we need to make sure we have good laws that are making it harder to administer elections. And we had an episode about, like, voting history. So it is historically getting easier to vote in Texas or harder to vote. So it's timely. Ish. But I think because we're thinking so far ahead of time, that helps keep us grounded and not trying to react to what's happening in the moment. And also the thing I don't like about reacting in the moment, just personally, is you don't have all the facts. And this is the solution. This is my opinion. It's like, maybe we should pump the brakes and think a little bit more deeply about this. That's just, like, I guess not in my nature. So I'm okay being a little more like, bird's eye view when it comes to, like, political issues.

I think that that's really great. And I think just the example of how one of your listeners found you searching for something about charter schools in Texas. Like, you've made it so that it's more timeless in that next time there's midterm elections or next time there's the election time. And I want to know something. Your topic is matched to me searching for that and understanding that. And it doesn't matter if it was aired a year earlier, it's still going to be relevant to me. And then all you'll get me to join and listen to your show to hear what you're talking about today.

Yeah, I know I keep, like, making it about me, but who cares? Like, that's how I learn. Like, if I, like, find a writer who I think is really interesting and cool, I go to my podcast app and I search their name and I want to hear all the episodes they've been in or if there's a topic I want to learn more about. Like, critical race theory. We had an episode on critical race theory, and I was like, what are other people saying about it? I go search it and then I find those episodes. So I wanted us to be that as well for people. They're like, what is Christian nationalism in Texas? Go listen to our show, like, we talked about it, so that they can return and it is still valuable, hopefully years down the road.

I think that's a really great plan. So we're both south by Southwest. I'm going to say, like graduates, panelists. Like, we all got to be there. So Tom and I did that back in 2018. I think it was 2018. 2019, I can't remember. I think it was 2018. And we did a panel on 3D printing. Like, it was very bizarre, but it was a, you know, fit the technology side of it. You obviously did something completely different. But I think there's a lot of people who would love to get involved with south by Southwest. How did that come about for you? And how did the podcast kind of make that easy?

Yeah, well, you actually gave me the idea, Tracy. So I remember we had talked when Nicole and I were a little new into the show. I think we had maybe released 15ish episodes, and we were going to go to this festival called Tribfest in Texas and Austin that the Texas Tribune puts on. It's like, big political festival. And I remember asking you, like, what should we do? What should our goal be? And you were like, we'll make some stickers, because stickers are great to pass out. And you said, in future events like this, you should try to see if you can do a podcast publicity pop up. So I had that in my head. I was like, okay, like, what's the next event we can try to do? And then somehow I came across south by Southwest because they had a specific civic engagement track. And I was like, ooh, that's perfect for us. So I just threw out feelers to my network. I'm a member of the Junior League of Austin. And I asked that network, like, does anyone work for South By? And sure enough, a woman I volunteered with had just started there. So I talked to her. I was like, how can we get in? I don't even know. Can we just, like, stand in the corner with a microphone? Like, what are our options? And she was like, we do have a podcast lounge, but I'm not really part of that team. But I could put you in touch with the events coordinator for the civic engagement track. Do you guys want to pitch a panel? And this was after the panel picker had been closed. This is where you pitch a panel, and, like, the public can decide what they want to go check out. So we kind of had, like, a backdoor access point, but we still had to pitch our specific panel. This friend that I knew from south by and I had volunteered in this program addressing food insecurity at a local elementary school. So she was like, what about food insecurity? Would you guys be interested in that? And we were like, we're interested in everything, so yes, we can, like, structure something around food insecurity in Texas. So it was through talking with her, we also connected with our first panelist, Celia Cole from Feeding Texas, and she helped give us ideas about the shape of it. And then me and Nicole went and brainstormed, and we thought, like, why is there so much food insecurity in Texas? Why are one in eight Texans food insecure? Texas is, like, the world's ninth largest economy. We have so much money and wealth here, but so many people are left out of that abundance. Like, that was what we kept thinking about. So that's the direction we took. And it was really cool that we got to do it because it felt like such a long shot, but I was like, why not? Maybe it'll happen. And it did. So I think that there's a Great.

Benefit to any event, tying themselves to a podcast. And a lot of them don't realize it, but luckily south by has been doing this quite some time. I think that year that we did it was the very first podcast sort of interface that they had, and they had this whole podcast area that was sponsored. So then they would bring in different panels, different sponsors, different interviews, different live podcasts. And so it was the very first year they had done it, and they realize there's a power there because we have an audience. So we're bringing our audience, and if it doesn't happen this year, it cascades into the next year. And that's really the power of doing that. So I'm so glad you did that, and I'm so glad I was just this little part of inspiring you to go for it. It triggered that.

Really fun.

I'm so glad. But I think what everyone else wants to hear here, I want you to hear, is that Claire didn't sit around and say, that sounds like a great idea, and wait for them to invite her. Right. She went out there, found someone connected in, figured out a way through that process. That's what it really takes as a podcaster. We're grinding it out, but when we make it happen, it has great residual value to the show. It'll have cascading effects. You'd be surprised what she gets invited to next. Right. So let's talk about what's next for you. So you're thinking about building a nonprofit and growing in this way. Tell us a little bit about what's next for you and the show.

Yeah. What we have been trying to crack is the monetization riddle. And I think for us, we've talked to a lot of other podcasters who are successful and people who are in journalism because, like, we're not journalists, but we've had a lot of success learning from, like, nonprofit journalism here in Texas. So we've been getting feedback, like, you guys are doing educational work, you're doing civic engagement work. Like, you should consider becoming a nonprofit and trying to apply for grants and get money that way, and maybe still having some sort of membership model as well. So that's what we're going to pursue. And maybe even, like, a philanthropic donor will be interested in the work we're doing, because a lot of things that gets funding we're discovering is when people talk about democracy and freedom and civic engagement, because we don't have a lot of civic education here in Texas, to be honest. So there's a lot of people with money who light up when you talk about those things. So we're like, oh, okay, maybe this is the track that makes more sense for us. So we're going to explore that. And it's like you're saying, I'm still trying to find people who have done it, to be like, how do you do this? But for some things, it's like, we're just gonna have to, like, trail that path ourselves. But, yeah, it's just a lot of trial and error. We've met a lot of great people who have helped us. And it's funny, what's really helped me was running for office and then starting the podcast, because running through office, like, I'm more of an introverted kind of a shy person. You can't be that. You have to be assertive, and you can't just wait. You have to go because the election is coming. So with the podcast, I still have that urgency, and I'm just going to ask, and if they say no, whatever, I'll find another person to help me out. And that's been a good takeaway is.

Training you to run again. I love it.

I say no, but then, who knows? Like, it could happen. Anything could happen.

That's right. Well, that's the kind of other part I wanted to just touch on before we go here, which is sort of this idea that putting yourself out there in this way can have a backlash. And have you found that you're being trolled a little bit more? That especially in politics right now, I mean, we've been hearing about sort of people who are in that sort of election management system are being completely hounded. Are you afraid of that? Is that happening to you at all? Or are you. You're just like, I'm gonna hold my own because the show's good.

Yeah. Again, I think maybe running for office gave me a little bit of training in that. Like, there's always gonna be people who are chattering and saying things about you that aren't true. And I think it's just reminding yourself, like, I knew who I am. I know what I'm doing is important. And they're just trying to get me off track. And I think about, like, Brene Brown. I read a lot of Brene Brown before running for office. And she just talks about the arena. And if you're not in the arena, your opinion doesn't really matter to me. And, like, this chatter around you, these people are. They're just, like, at their homes, behind their computers, like, they're not doing anything. So until you're actually doing the work. I'm not interested in your opinion.

I think that's a really great Teflon attitude to have, which I really appreciate. But I think you're right about this because so often I hear, and this is the interesting part of they never listened to the show. They may be commenting from being posted on social media, but they didn't actually listen to the show. And so those listeners of yours will jump down and tamp it down faster than you can. That's what I really find. It's like, did you even listen? Because that's not what they were talking about. And so I think that that's really an interesting model of really saying no. My listeners are my listeners. This is the arena I'm playing in. This is the mission and focus that we're going to go towards. And sticking with that and staying strong is actually the best strategy.

Yeah, I mean, we ask for feedback all the time. Like, we do genuinely want people to tell us, are the shows too long? There's something else you want to hear about. Please help us get better. But to just, I don't know, like, say inane things that don't help at all. Nothing like, I'm going to go do the other thing I need to do.

So important. Well, Claire, I am so glad that this show has really taken off. Go behind the ballot. I love the concept of it when you were talking with me about it originally, and I really love to see how it's transformed into being something that's easy for you to run, that seems natural for everything that you do. And what I really think that your key factor in its success and why it's going to continue to be successful is because you are revealing in a pace that is easier to digest and in that repetitiveness that you were talking about, that it's really helping your audience come around to sit to that. Aha. That they need to get involved.

Yes. Thank you. It's good, too. Like, I guess I've never realized how important. Well, it's like with anything, with politics, with education, repetition really matters. And I think previously I was hesitant. I was like, running for office, you know your stump speech, right. You gotta say over and over and over. And I was like, no, this should be different. It's like, no, you say it again and again and again because that is what, at some point will sink into people's heads. And you have to tell them a bunch and don't think like, oh, they've heard it.

Who's they?

Like, most people have never heard it. So don't be scared to say the same things a hundred times.

Well, I can't wait to see what's next. So you'll have to keep in touch with us and let us know how it goes. And when you get that nonprofit up and running, we'll have to talk again.

Okay, that sounds great.

Thank you so much, Claire. And we'll be back with some more information about Claire and what my thoughts are about the show offline.

There are so many challenges to doing a localized podcast. We've talked about this on the show with other podcasters who have a more local based show. And of course, this is a very large state. Texas is a giant state. And whether it's happening in her little house district or not, like, it's still universal. But listening to this is insight into how politics runs around the country. And so there's lots of it for even other people outside of her local community. But of course, you want to promote your podcast within your community, and there are so many challenges to that. First off, you've got the challenge of do I want to admit that I listen to your podcast and will I share it on social media now? Maybe in today's world that's actually the easy part because we have so much of our community that's similar in thinking to us. And so actually it might be easier to get people to share it on social media, but it could also be a challenge. And so this is something that you really want to think carefully about as you're structuring your show, as you're titling your show. I think they were really smart about it that they didn't say, this is a Democratic or this is a Republican podcast. They said very clearly, no, we're going to talk issues and we're going to understand where those issues came from, what the two sides think about those issues, what's going on in that and why it should matter to me in local politics. But some of the things that I found about that is this kind of pervasive movement of Christian nationalism, charter schools, dark money, food, insecurity. This is pretty much in every one of our neighborhoods. And that's where a podcast is so perfect for what they're building here. I'm really impressed with everything that they've done and I really hope that this takes off and continues to move for them. And I'm so super proud of them. Getting to south by Southwest, that's just an amazing accomplishment. All of you take lesson from Claire and from Nicole and from go behind the ballot, go out there ask tell people about your show. Go see if you can participate in a local event. Go do, because the rewards that you might get on the other side of it may not even be something you ever even imagined. So I'm so glad to catch up with Claire Campos o' Neill and so really proud of how this podcast has turned out for them. Can't wait to see what it looks like in another year. After the election, we're going to catch up with her again, see if it had an effect at all, see if some of the issues got more visibility and change the outcome at the ballot. Maybe that happened. I can't wait to see what that is. So we'll check back in here again. Absolutely. And everyone, if you've got a podcast out there and you are struggling to figure out how it works, what you should do? Suggest a podcast in a niche that you'd like me to cover. I'm happy to go find a successful podcaster for you and get you some answers in your area that you're most interested in. So you gotta reach out to me. Go to the bingefactor.com, the blog post for all of these episodes. You can connect to any of the hosts that I feature there, but you can also reach out to me and let me know what you're looking for. Or reach out to me anywhere on social media, but preferably on LinkedIn. Thanks everyone for listening. I'm Tracy Hazard and I'll be back with some more successful podcasters here on the Binge Factor.

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