Discover 3 Proven Ways to Face Your Podcasting Fears

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Hello and welcome to Feed you'd Brand. This is Tom and Tracy. And you know we had a great interview with John Livesay on Wednesday, who's one of our favorite people.

Gosh, yeah, absolutely. And I thought he brought up something really interesting that I thought we should dive deeper in an episode also because we have some tactics to help people get through it that we didn't really go into when we were talking with John. So he was talking about fear, like the fear of getting started podcasting.

Yeah. And I know a lot of you that listen to this podcast are already existing podcasters and maybe you've overcome that fear. But there's also a lot of people listening to this who are considering podcasting.

But I do think that even at the existing podcasters, some of our clients who shall remain nameless are having issues with getting new guests and mainly because they're just not putting themselves out there and asking and so they think their show's too new or they still have a fear factor going on. And so that's kind of what we want to really help address today and kind of give you some tactics and tools and things that we use and if you aren't our clients, some of the advice that we give them and the process we use to help push through those fears and get to the great place where you find your voice.

And we're going to give a couple of examples. I think we're going to cover, I think, at least three major fears that people have podcasting that really hold them back. And let's talk with the number one, the first one, which is really what I would call inertia of podcasting. And it's people who understand the potential and the value of podcasting. They really are looking forward to doing it. And a lot of them, even of our clients, they'll work with us and then pass to set up a podcast for them. And we do all of our part, but then the one part we can't do for them is make them record their first episode so they really get sort of almost stuck in the mud or this quicksand. I think they feel it. A lot of Them feel that. It's like they're drowning in quicksand, all this anxiety of starting recording that first episode.

Yeah. And I think also that, you know, you raise a good point. Because people pay us to set up their podcast for them, it's actually less likely to happen with us. I see it happen more often with those that don't pay or those that find a friend who will do them a favor. And when you don't pay, you don't have that commitment level. So that's. I think one key thing is if you shell out the money, it's like, you know, you shell out the money, it has to hurt enough to make you want to do it, to make you feel compelled to do it, to kind of give you that nudge or that shove that you need. So that's one of the things. So if you're not paying for it, that's a very, very big problem that we see very often when someone does something in trade. We see that all the time with those that come to us eventually.

Yeah. And, you know, we hear similar stories from these types of clients, you know, again and again, which is that, you know, they decided they wanted to do it on their own. They were going to research it, investigate it, they buy their own equipment, they watch all the videos, listen to all the podcasts, watch a bunch of webinars and listen to podcasts about podcasting. And then it's two years later and they're still not podcasting.

So I'm gonna go out there and just say, I have this same problem with writing a book. I have three drafts for a book. Like three full complete manuscripts that just.

Need to be edited. Right.

That just need to be edited. And the problem is, is that I'm a really avid reader. Like, I read everything, and I've read some years, 300 plus books.

That's not an exaggeration.

It's not.

Tracy.

Like, there's quite a budget for it, right.

Almost daily reads a whole book. It's staggering.

I am grateful that I do get a lot of free books. Because I write a column, I get a lot of free books, and people who want me to review their books, and they're always giving me books at events. So luckily, I do get that because it's. Otherwise, it's a costly thing, but because I read them and because it's a combination of two things. One, because there's a whole lot of them that I read that are just so bad that it makes me afraid that if I put one out, it will be bad. And on the other hand, there are some that are so good that I think I can't live up to that. And so you start to self talk yourself right out of doing it. And I have come 80% of the way. I have to do one round of editing on my own, and then it goes to professional editors from there to get through that. And that is the same inertia problem, though.

I agree. And I don't know how to help you with that problem. And that's not what we're here to do today.

I know, I know.

Well, let's get back to that.

I want to put that out there, that this is like a really common problem in all kinds of areas of it. And you have to sit back and as John put it, you kind of have to examine where that's coming from. That's what I really liked about our conversation with John Livestay. It was like he had to really sit back and examine where that's coming from. And for me, it's coming from this place of I'm a writer and I feel like I'm being held to a higher standard and I'm holding myself to a higher standard than perhaps I should be, and that maybe I need to let go a little bit.

I think you do.

And just let somebody else do the whole editing process and not even do the one pass. That's probably the best solution for me.

Probably is true. And I think the same thing happens for a podcaster when you haven't really sat down and recorded an episode and you sit down to do it. And especially if you're not going to interview somebody for your first episode. And maybe it's. You're going to sit down and talk about what the mission for your show is or why you're decided to create a podcast, something like that.

Usually that's a really daunting.

Yeah, I think it's tough and I think it is intimidating.

Yeah, it is. And that's why we have this tactic that we use, which we encourage our podcasters to start from the interview episode first, because interviewing somebody's a deadline. You put a calendar appointment together, right, you're gonna have it. It's gonna happen even if you wing it. Or you're gonna be forced to prepare 10 minutes before it starts. But it's going to force you to do it, right? You're going to do it, and then you're going to realize, wow, that wasn't so bad. That was actually kind of fun, and you're going to get through that sort of ripping the band aid off part of just getting going there and you're going to try. Then we go back into after the interview episode, we say recommend they do the question and or issue that is the one that they answer every single time they get. They talk to someone. Like, it's always the thing that you go to. Like in product launching, if we're talking to inventors, they always are afraid of their IP being stolen. Like, I can't tell you how many times we have that conversation, probably 99% of the time in front of adventurous groups. So we know that's a topic. We know it's going to come up. And because it comes up so often, you could talk about it all day long. So if you can talk about it all day long, then it's your best opening episode. So you're going interview topic. And now you have a little more sense of what your show's about and who it's for. Now you can dive a little bit deeper into the mission episode. We never recommend anyone writes more than an outline.

Yeah, outline only. Bullet points are great. Key words you want to address, if you're into that are great.

Don't write any sentences out.

It'll be obvious to the listener that you've scripted it right. That's never really a good thing. Podcast audiences like it when their hosts are real, are really authentically them. And so, you know, you just need to be speaking from the heart, really.

Right. And so that's why that we sort of mission episode, you know, it's gonna get buried. After you hit 100 episodes, it drops off and people won't see it anymore. And so you can do it again.

You can replace it, you can replace it later. And especially if you're, I guess I would say the format of your show or some of the of it changes over time, which happens. Shows pivot or they just evolve and you may want to rerecord. Well, gee, my podcast really is about this now instead of what it was. Let's rerecord that primary episode. You can certainly do that. But, you know, the big thing is, if you're new to podcasting, don't get stuck in this inertia of being too consumed in your head over what it is that you're gonna do in those first couple episodes. I agree with you, Tracy. You know, schedule an interview with someone that you think your audience would be really interested to hear from, preferably somebody with a very big social media following. I'm not going to go too much down that rabbit hole.

You can Go hear some of those episodes we just talked about recently.

But still, that's the good thing to do. But just go ahead and prepare a few questions, not all of them, and start to ask those questions and have a conversation with that guest and let that interview or discussion go where it ends up going. And don't truncate it and make it artificially short. Don't stretch it, make it artificially long. Just have that conversation. When it feels complete, end it. And after that inter. Maybe record your. Well, you could do a different episode. That's a topic. Yes. Like you were suggesting. But even after you record that interview, you could go back and record your introduction to that guest and maybe some final thoughts about that interview.

Yeah. So that's the strategy for those of you who are on your own. You guys are going to want to limit the amount of editing. And so when you're doing it on your own. And that's why we don't recommend it. That's why we had it done for us to begin with. And that's how we started this whole brand casting business, because it's so much less. It's spontaneous, it requires so much more planning, so much more effort in the process. When you have to plan out your introduction, do it, then record the interview, then do a post and. Or people don't even do that. They just basically, hey, welcome to the show. And here's so and so. And they dive right into it. Those shows are less successful, we find, than the ones that have sort of an analysis and a here's what happened on the interview and here's what we were thinking about, and here's why it's relevant to you, or here's why I'm bringing this guest on. And when you have those things for our podcasters, we have the full ability to edit, so they can record them completely separate. And so you can have your interview, see where it leads, then record your.

Introduction right now, look, there's certainly nothing wrong with recording it all in one take. If you're good at that, that's your game. More power to you.

But you're probably not one of the ones who has fear. And that's what we're talking about today.

You're probably not. And you know, that's actually a very positive thing.

Right. So, you know, this is why if you've got that fear and you need multiple takes and you want to have edits and that makes you comfortable, then you better find yourself an editor. You better find yourself a done for your service, and that's Just the way to get over that.

Sure.

Make it more comfortable for you.

But I also think that audiences do tend to really like it when their host, who they listen to week after week, offers them some critical analysis or some sort of what is their true feelings? Takeaways from a certain interview rather than talking about it while you still have that guest on the line. You know, I mean, I think they tend to feel, are you just being nice to this guest? Do you really think that that was valuable? Or why did you share this guest with, you know, these sorts of things, I think listeners tend to ask themselves. So we prefer that sort of critical analysis. But I have to say, I think it's a little easier with you and me, Trace, because we're co hosts.

We have a conversation together, a discussion.

A dialogue about it is a little easier than a monologue, which is another.

Great way to get over that fear. Get yourself a partner. Right. If you've got a partner, first off, you've got an accountability partner who's going to make you do it. And secondly, you've got this person who's got your back. So if you're not so good, they're going to pick up the slack, you know, and that's kind of. You're going to feel more and more comfortable in the position when you have that situation. I think it's been great for us and it really helps us in terms of also back up when, like, I got sick for two weeks and I really couldn't record. And, you know, you can take over and it's not the worst thing that ever happened for us to have one solo episode now and again.

Yeah, no, we'll do that. And especially when one of us is ill, which actually has happened quite a bit lately. I don't know if we did. We do many feed your brands. Just you or just me. I think one or two, maybe.

Yeah, I think.

But on our other shows, we've done even more solo. Tracy had the worst case of bronchitis in the last month, and she just could not record anything, so I had to pick it up and do it.

Yeah, we didn't want it. The poor editor editors, you know, editing out the hacking that I was doing, like every five seconds. So it was too much.

It was not practical. Yeah. Well, let's move on to another common fear, Tracy. And I think that's a fear of the ask.

Yeah, that's the guest problem, and that's a common problem at all stages of it. So, you know what I mean? Even we get into that situation where Even we hire VAs and sometimes VA virtual assistants. We hire assistants or new marketing assistants, and they're afraid to ask. And so it happens all around. You have to really be, hey, I've got a great show. I'm providing a great service, and you have to sit in that knowledge. And you got to ask from that place. I'm doing both the guest of service by inviting them on my show. It's free publicity. I'm not charging them, so it's free. And how is that bad? Hopefully you have great blog posts. I think we've talked about that enough already on Feature Brand that you better have a blog post that goes along with it. So there's lots of digital backlinking, so there's lots of power to it. And it's of great benefit to both of you. So there really is no reason to think that they shouldn't come on your show. Now, scheduling is an issue and all of those things. But I think that of all the things that I've done, every person that I've ever asked to be on our podcast, and We've done almost 500 episodes on WTFF, right?

Yeah.

And so at least a quarter of them, probably more, are interviews, right?

More than. Yeah, I think more than a quarter.

More than a quarter of them are interviews. So when you look at that for our purposes, you know, we've got well over 125 interviews. And I don't think I was turned down ever by anyone. I had a couple of people who got cold feet. They were scared of being interviewed and they canceled. And some of them I chased down. Like I kept saying, I don't think you understand how good it's gonna be for you. You should do this show. And some of them I didn't because it was like, not that big a deal to me. And then we only had one difficult ask, and that was because it was a corporation. And when you go through a corporation, you gotta go through PR layers, the publicists and the marketing firms. And sometimes you have to go through that, but otherwise it's usually pretty easy.

Yeah, don't overemphasize those, you know, less than ideal situations because were the ultra minority. Most of the time you ask people if they'd like to be a guest on your podcast and they say, okay, when? Yeah, you know, it's really not that difficult. In fact, we only allow them to book on our calendar on two days a month, and our booking calendar doesn't allow them to book any other day of the month. And if they can't make those two days this month. They have to wait another month and do one of the two days that we have available next month. And they work around our schedule.

Well, and thinking about John, you know, this week when John Livesay mentions that, you know, he's booked out, he's like recorded his episodes and his interviews all the way for the next six months. So when somebody comes on his show and they're gonna come on a show, they gotta wait till next year to hear it. That's a scarcity thing, model. So in that you wanna get on the show as fast as possible.

And you know, the interesting thing, what John's done lately is he's had a few guests that, you know, were pretty high profile and he didn't wanna make them wait for six months. And so now he's actually, for four or five of the next weeks, he's put a second episode out in the same week just so he could move them up sooner. And so you can do that as the host, make that exception. You have a weekly show, but you know what, you can decide you're going to make it a, you know, twice a week.

Yeah. You got so many. You got so many great interviews. Yeah. So don't worry about that. Stack them up. Right. And don't be afraid to ask. You are doing them a benefit.

Don't underestimate the. I almost want to say power, but I don't know if that's the right word. Don't underestimate the influence value of being a podcast host. And don't underestimate the media opportunities you're giving somebody else for free, even if.

It'S an early episode. And so you don't have an audience yet. I mean, don't be dishonest with someone and say. And, you know, don't say that. Obviously, we're startup. You know, you can't listen to any of my episodes because you're gonna be in my first month of episodes or whatever that is. I mean, you be honest about it, but you can also say to them, and here's how I plan to market it, so here's how I plan to grow my show. And you're an integral part to that. And of that, I will be happy to invite you back in six months or a year when I've got an even bigger listenership. And I would like to reward you with that.

Yeah. And I would say also be bold and say, hey, you're going to be one of the first guests on this show ever. And while it doesn't have a big audience now, it will have a big audience in the future. And it is very common for new podcast listeners, even six months, a year later to go back and listen to the first episodes after they've listened to a current one, if they like the show. So they're going to go back and listen to it. And you know, you've been a guest on a lot of podcasts, Tracy, and we still get people coming and seeking you out. A year, year and a half after you were interviewed on a podcast, they just found the podcast. Now they're interested to talk to you about business or something you talked about on that show and they seek you out.

Yeah, it happens all the time. Especially if a show has a blog post and because it's indexed, it's indexed by Google and they'll always find the episode. So there's no reason not to ask someone. And this is a fear that you guys just really gotta push through. Just push through. Because this is the biggest growth factor, the most fun you will have in your podcast.

I agree. So, yeah, here the lesson is just ask. And you know what? It's kind of reminding me of one of the mothers of one of my childhood friends back in around New York, where I grew up, who, you know, when I was adding all this anxiety about asking a girl out to a dance and she said, well, if you don't ask, it's a definitely a no.

Who said that?

Nancy Lowenheim, actually.

That makes sense.

Yeah. So she actually said, if you don't ask, it's definitely a no. But if you ask, you've at least got a shot of it being a yes. Well, of course, that was just me asking a girl to dance. And maybe I was nobody, you know, back then or whatever. So this is different. You have a podcast, you're out there, it's a media opportunity. Don't have fear over that. Be bold.

Yeah, you get a lot more to offer than a 14 year old boy. Right?

No, but I mean, just that whole analogy was sort of absolutely getting in my head there. So I had to share it.

Absolutely. Go out there and ask. It's a great way. So third fear.

All right, so the third fear, Is anybody actually going to listen to me? Is anybody going to listen to my podcast once I put it out there?

Well, you know, I kind of thought that when we first started our WTFF podcast because, I mean, it's 3D printing, it's pretty geeky. It's really niche.

It's a very niche.

Yeah, right topic, like, where are we going to have. Who is it? Who's like, say, you know, was it David Letterman who used to say his, like, his like five viewers or something like that or whatever it is.

I don't remember if it was David.

But it was like one of those talk show hosts who would be like, oh, we're, you know, going to reward our eight listeners today, or whatever that is. But anyway, that was the kind of thing I was like, we're going to have like eight people and that's going to be it.

But you know what? But very quickly, we had thousands of listeners from all over the world.

And even in the early days when it was really like, you know, you couldn't tell there was like a hundred listeners or a hundred plays, so you didn't really know quite how many listeners it was. In the early days, we had some that were giving us feedback. We're like, so excited about it. And they were from Brazil and from Africa and other places like that. And we were like, wow, we've got some reach. And it gave us the confidence and the momentum and the excitement to keep going for them. And that led to just more and more benefits, business, more and more growth, more and more listeners. And I just think that, you know, it is the case today where lots of new podcasts are coming up, and especially if you're in a crowded market, but if you have something in your category that's really unique, you have something unique to say. There's people out there looking for answers, they're looking for new shows all the time. And this is the one thing that I think people don't. They're not as loyal to podcasts all the time as you think they are. There's some that you don't ever miss. It is critical to who you are and your growth and what you're doing. But. But you're always looking for something new that's coming up. And so even ones that have been in an area in which a show has been there for, you know, hundreds and hundreds of episodes might be getting stale and their audience might be looking for something new. So it's not a reason to be afraid in a crowded niche area category.

I agree. I think that you always have the opportunity to put your unique perspective on a subject area, a category, a market, an industry. Right. You have your unique perspective. You have your unique vision to share your style, too. Yeah, absolutely. So even if you. When you first look at a category, if it seems to be a crowded niche, that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. That Actually means there's a big audience looking to, you know, consume information. And so that says, hey, there's an audience to be had there, right?

And people don't really care about the rankings on itunes. People don't really even notice, for the most part, the way that people find podcasts. They are not necessarily checking rankings and ratings and all of those things. And they have no idea how many plays you have.

Oh, they definitely don't have any idea how many plays you have because no one can see that data unless you've allowed it to be seen on certain hosting platforms will display it.

But we don't do that on purpose.

Don't recommend you allow that to be displayed because the mystery is better for you. But that's just a little side tip. But the reality is, people, you know, there's been this review culture, at least in the United States, I won't speak for other countries, but there's been this review culture of reviews of products on Amazon. And Amazon recently changed the whole process and made it much more difficult to get reviews of your products because there were people that were sort of gaming the system and getting reviews, positive reviews up there that weren't necessarily authentic from real purchasers. And I think that there's a bit of a similar thing happening on itunes and places like this that while, hey, it's great to see that there are, you know, 20 reviews and they're all four and a half, average of four and a half out of five stars or whatever, but I think the reality is people don't tend to really. That doesn't mean as much to them. I think people tend to just, well, it's going to take me five minutes to start to listen to the beginning.

Of this podcast, right? It's like, it's not a. I'll try.

It out and make my own decision, right?

And so. And for the most part, sometimes the browsers and the things that you use when it's on your mobile device and other things, you don't even see that if you don't dive deeper into the descriptions of the shows and stuff, so you don't even notice it there. You can't even leave a review on a mobile device. So it's really difficult to leave a review on a show on itunes or Stitcher or any of those. So nobody does it. And so I don't think anyone really holds a lot of weight in that. So the reality is, is that it's going to be how they found you. Were they Googling something? That's a pain point for did they type it into the search of itunes? And that's why you show up. If you show up and that's in reference to something they need, they're going to take a listen.

And I think especially with the adoption of, you know, different devices like the Amazon Echo, you know, hey Alexa, play me the latest episode of Feed you'd brand podcast. I mean, you can do that with our podcast. And any podcast that we produce, we put on the tune in platform, which is playable on Alexa. There's also Google Play podcasts will play on the hey Google device. Guess what? People aren't saying, hey Google, how many reviews are there of this podcast before they, you know, go and listen? I actually not even sure that information is searchable or playable over those devices. But nobody is going to check out reviews over those devices.

No, definitely not.

I think you're right, Tracy. More often than not, people are searching in Google search bar for pain points or areas of interest, things they want.

To listen to or an itunes search or stitcher search.

Right. But on Google search, your blog post is going to come up first if you have one for your episode, which you need to have.

Right. And 80% of our listenership comes from Google alone.

Google search.

So it doesn't come from itunes, it doesn't come from stitcher. Those are much lower percentages. And once we started really putting those full blog posts in, that's when our listenership started to grow at a very expanded, high growth rate.

Absolutely. Yeah. When we first started, we were doing this so long ago, we didn't put up the long form blog posts.

Yeah. We did the silly PDF thing that all the gurus recommended, which was stupid. And we stopped doing it that very quickly.

Yeah, we learned it really had no value. And then we learned the benefit of the long form, you know, written blog posts and all the keyword ranking. So really that's the way people are going to find you. And I think they're going to take a listen because what does it hurt?

Yeah. And so let's step back to this fear about nobody listening. I fear that every time I write an article, nobody's going to read it. And I don't have a huge readership on my articles. I can see, you know, if I get a few thousand reads on it, it's good article. And that doesn't mean it's not having impact. And that doesn't mean that those aren't the right readers or the right listeners for you. And that's really where I think some of the smaller podcasts the podcasts that have really tight niches, those are the ones that really do the best in terms of transaction and conversion and getting you where you want to go. I've appeared multiple times on the on the Shelf podcast. A good friend of ours, Tim Bush, who we adore and who we refer a lot of business to, because this is about getting products into retail shelves. And I'm a regular guest on this panel that he has once a month. And we have a lot of fun doing it. It's kind of us hanging out all morning and chatting about some subject matter. So it's really fun. And so I would do it anyway, but the reality is that I've gotten a lot of clients from that, and his show does not have a gigantic listener base. And it's frustrating to him that it doesn't matter because at the end of the day, you're getting the right listeners.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look, there's many benefits to podcasting, right? Some people do. They want that big audience and they want to monetize that. And if that's your goal, that's great. There is a path to doing that. But for others that maybe the huge audience isn't the primary goal. Maybe it is just creating content for your website that is going to attract traffic and, you know, cast a wide net for you, marketing your business over Google, and that's great. But there are others that even that isn't the primary goal. They have different missions. Some of them are actually not primarily motivated by money. They're motivated by connecting people, or they're motivated by storytelling, or they're motivated as medical professionals, provide much needed advice and to help people with their pain or what that might be. And we have several doctors that we produce podcasts for, and they get actually quite a number of new patients as a result of their podcast. That's where the value is for them. It's not the volume of listeners, like you said, Tracy, it's the quality. It's connecting with them. It actually helps them close new patients quicker because they're listening to them and they develop trust and they haven't even met them yet.

Right. So what we want to really do is say here is that if your fear is that no one will listen, it's not going to be no one. It's going to be someone. Even if you don't put any marketing dollars into your show in the beginning, and we've done that, we organically started this podcast. We. We just did it to see what would happen. And we've been growing in listeners very consistently. Since we started it, we didn't throw any marketing dollars in it at all. And so even just word of mouth, people finding it, spreading it out to your network, growing it that way, there's going to be listeners, there's going to be people that are curious. But more importantly, if you are in a hot topic area, something people searching for something they're struggling with, they're out there looking for you and they're gonna find you. And then when you're a little bit more successful, throw some marketing dollars in it and really boost it.

Yeah, you can really accelerate and build, reach a bigger audience, you know, much more quickly when you have that base to start from. So I think those are some pretty good fear points.

Fear busters.

Tracy. Yeah. So you know what? If any of you have any other fears about podcasting or anything related to Feed your brand, please reach out to us on social Media, on Facebook.

Edyourbrand.

Yeah, or come to brancastingyou.com and find the blog post for this episode and leave us a comment. And you know what? If we get enough of those topics, then we'll address it in a future episode and we'll have sort of partnership two.

Yeah. Fears Part two.

Well, I hope you enjoyed this episode, everyone. Thanks so much for listening. This has been Tom and Tracy on Feed.

You'd brand.

Don't.