Dos And Don'ts To Develop An Effective Podcast Brand Reputation Management

Want your podcast and videocast to be seen, heard, found and rewarded in this noisy digital world, you are not alone. Join the nonprofit community at Podcasters United and podcast industry experts Tom Hazard and Tracy Hazard as they debunk all that outdated and bad advice you've been getting from the podcast gurus and find out what actually works. Today, get ready to finish Feed your brand with smart cut tactics proven to cast your original voice to the world.

Hey everyone. Welcome to Feed you'd Brand. I'm Tom Hazard along with my co host Tracy, and today we're going to talk about the do's and don'ts to develop an effective podcast brand reputation management. Now, Tracy, you really have some strong, I think opinions or opinion may also be the wrong word, but just perspective recommendations and perspective for podcast brand reputation management. So I want to throw this to you right off the bat to set this up for us.

Well, let's take a look at what's going on in the podcasting market really quick. There's a lot of reputation management issues going on. Brene Brown is having some serious association problems for her brand with being associated on Spotify with a network with Joe Rogan. It's the main issue. She writes about it in her blog, which we'll link to the blog post for this episode. So you can read the blogs of what Brene Brown is saying herself about this. So she feels that the association with Joe Rogan, right or wrong, doesn't matter about that. But whatever it is that she feels that it's hurting her brand reputation. So while we have this issue of like thinking about what does brand reputation mean, what is that all about and is there a way to manage it through the use of my podcast? And there are multiple ways. And I'm going to get Tom to talk about this in a moment because he is the absolute expert in sort of that Google SEO side of podcasting. That is critically important here because really, when we're talking about brand reputation, what happens when either they want to find out if you have a good reputation or they want to find out if you don't. So what am I going to do? I'm going to Google someone, I'm going to Google Brene Brown, and then all these articles are going to come up. But what if there are a bunch of articles about me that I don't like? What if they're referencing me in a negative way? What if there are some negative press about me out there? How do I combat that? That's one side of reputation management. And there are lots of publicists out there. One of my favorites, Cheryl Snap Connor, is just amazing at this, and this is her personal area of expertise. And brand reputation management is a rehabilitation of your digital footprint around what people are saying about you. And sometimes you're not in control of that. However, using a podcast can really get you in greater control of that. And that's tactics that we've used with other publicists and other companies to kind of make that happen. So sometimes it's guesting on a bunch of podcasts to make that happen, and sometimes it's also having your own podcast that can make it happen so that you can drown out the noise that's negative about you and, and combat it in a very authentic way with your own voice, with what you are saying about yourself instead of what other people are saying. And that may not be true.

It's a really good point, Tracy, because here's one thing that everybody needs to understand. They have a digital footprint on the Internet. And even if you just have a podcast without a website, your footprint might be a little smaller. You should have a website for your podcast. If you listen to the show for any length of episodes, you know that we're huge advocates of that because that increases your digital footprint for what you want to be found, for the good things that are gonna be out there about you. But if there are any negative or unflattering posts about you, mentions of you out there on the Internet, you can't get rid of them, you can't delete them. What you can do is age them and move them down from the first page of Google to the second, third, fourth, fifth page of Google. And how many of us ever really go through beyond that second page of Google? Very, very few. I mean, the number of people that page after 1, to 2, to 3, to 4, and even down more pages, each page, the number of people that go to those pages decreases dramatically. So by creating new content that's relevant and related, but in a good way to you and more current contact fresher, you're going to be able to improve that situation. And so the one thing, I guess, and Tracy, I hope I'm not stealing your thunder, but the one thing that all you podcasters need to do is publish, publish, publish.

That's right. You're not stealing thunder at all. Please reinforce that, because the more we say that, the better off it is. So keep in mind that there's a lot of scammers, a lot of things out there, a lot of people who complain about things, but they don't have the time to be persistent about it. So this publish, publish, publish that Tom's talking about is a strategy. It's one of the big do's to developing an effective brand reputation management strategy through podcasting. Or using podcasting is one way to do that, but it's also using it in blogging. So when we're saying podcast, we actually mean multicast. We mean you've gotta do the video version, the podcast version, the blog version of everything that you do. And of course do social posts and social links to link back to that to help rehabilitate that. It's actually a lot harder to keep it up in a feed unless somebody puts out an anti you Facebook group. Like there's a everyone against something. You know, it happens out there. But that also tends to get shut down too. So there are ways to contest that and remove it. So social is actually an easier place to manage. It's much harder to manage what's happening out on Google. I keep hearing that sort of scene with Hugh Grant in Notting Hill and Julia Roberts and she's all upset about these horrible photographs that were taken of her and that they're going to live forever. And he keeps saying that they're going to line tomorrow's waste paper bins, or.

That'S how you would say that. He says they're going to be lining tomorrow's wastebaskets, meaning they're gonna be thrown away and forgotten.

And she says rightfully so. No, you don't understand that every time they write something about me, they're going to look this up, they will bring it back up again. And the reality is, is that they won't remember it if it's not on the first page of Google. Because writers are lazy. I know, because I am one. Right? We're lazy. We don't have time to do as much research. The deadlines are there and if we don't find it quickly or we don't personally remember it, we're not going to pull it back up as a topic. So by burying things off the first page, we're actually really helping that reputation management long term. And we can bury it in a wastepaper bin.

Yes, it may be a digital or a virtual wastepaper bin, but you can definitely, and that's what I was saying, age it out of relevance. You're never going to be able to delete all those mentions off the Internet. They're going to live there forever. But the older they get and the more new stuff there is for people to consume before they ever see that old stuff, the better off you are.

So the first don't that I want to say is don't go after someone else. Don't fight like with like in this case. Right. If they're being untruthful and nasty to you, don't do the same thing back. If it's not your brand, it's not a part of who you are. Right. So let's make sure that we live in our authenticity, live in who we are, and represent that integrity out there everywhere. So this is really be you out there. And if it's not you to scratch back at someone, then let's not do that here because that's not going to help our brand in any way, shape or form. So that's the first don't that I want to give you. Do you have any doubts that you want to add before I do one more? Tom?

Not a don't. I have a do suggestion that's opposing this. Don't, but continue.

Let's go with that. Okay, in a minute. So the second don't that I have is don't do any kind of direct rebuttal or direct response without consulting an expert. Please get an attorney, get a publicist, both of them to look at it. Because you can make a lot of mistakes that can harm you should this eventually go to litigation. You could cause litigation by what you do in sort of this publicity world. So thinking about that, don't do this without assistance if you're going to do a direct response. Somebody said this. And now my answer is that, like I'm rebutting it to make that clear. Right. So instead what we want to do is a bunch of other things. Right. We want to have different things that are going to combat that. What's your due, Tom?

So my do is if you are going to respond in some way publicly, and that is an if it's a choice. And sometimes the best choice may be to not respond at all. But if you are going to respond, yes, like you said, Tracy, I would say consult a communication expert and you have a carefully considered rebuttal. But to empathize with that person's need, then make that statement in the first place. If you step into this with your response with empathy and compassion, you're going to come out looking like you're taking the high road. You're the adult in the room. You're not punching back. And generally you're going to be much more effective at diminishing the weight of their initial statement.

And then a big do here from a Technical side is when you do respond to something. So if you're responding to something and they say how so and so is ruining the industry, like, you know, that might be the title of it, or whatever, you want to respond using a variation of the same exact title. So it would be response to so and so is ruining the industry. Or an update to right. So that you're utilizing made it a new phrase so they can't claim you fully copied it. And it's not copyrightable when it's that generic, it's a response. So it's an opinion piece. You're allowed to do that. So you could put rebuttal colon, update to response to do that. But make sure that you're using the full title. Because when somebody searches for that title, you want to appear on that right above or below it, probably above it. Because yours is more recent, right? Your response is more recent.

There's a couple of simple ways to do that. You could use the exact same keyword phrase, the title, but put a question mark after it as if you're questioning that. Right? Like, or respond have that title and period, and then really question mark. So you're creating some curiosity for people. You're not agreeing with that statement. You're creating curiosity for people to learn more and discover is that actually accurate? And that'll get people to click on it.

So this is a really good strategy to call a favorite. So if you have other podcasters that you already know, you do a lot of business with other bloggers that can help you influencers in any way, shape or form, this is a great way to ask them to do that as well. So if you don't have the ability to do this yourself, write it on your own blog or write it out in a publication somewhere, then go to some other podcasters and say, hey, can this be the title of the episode that I do with you? And can we just dive deep into what happened here? That's a great way to do it. Please, again, make sure you're doing it with someone who edits so that if there's any kind of questionable things, you still have the ability to review it by your attorney or your communication specialist to help you make sure that you haven't made any errors that are going to come back to bite you later. We don't want to see that happen. We're trying to manage our reputation, not make it worse. So anyway, that's a great do in that process. This is going to help you combat it head to head. And that's what we really want to do key thing is do not change the keyword phrase. And you must really figure that out. If you don't know, get an SEO specialist to come look at it for you. So if for some reason you feel like you have to change the title, but you need to keep that keyword phrase, make sure you're getting it right and getting it exactly the way that it's phrased and worded for that portion of it. If you have to change the title. So that's the first really big do. The second do that I have is do more. Right. That's what Tom was saying before. Publish, publish, publish. Right. So you want to make sure that you're really looking at. A lot of times we think these things are so damaging to our reputation, but the reality is that they don't have a lot of viewers or listeners or readers in the case of a blog, Right. So viewers on YouTube, check it out, really understand what it is and make sure that you're combating it with enough. So, so in other words, if they only got 100 viewers, you just have to get 110. You don't have to get 1,000. You don't have to outdo it by so much more. You can, and that'll help push it down more. But if you're really trying to age these things out, it's also great. If I can outdo you by five videos that all rank 110 and yours is only 100, I'm going to push you down that page so fast, it's going to be tremendous. So that's where you now want to start, the variations around the keywords, where you're really putting the positive spin on whatever it is. So whatever they were talking about, industry problems or what's going on here, you're going to do the flip of it, still using variations on the keyword in this particular case. But you're now going to do all the positive pieces, all the things you really want to talk about and the things you want to be known for, and that's how you're going to push that down. But it's consistency and do it, do it daily, weekly, whatever it is, but keep it absolutely consistent. So if you're going to do it every three days, then you're going to do it every three days until you've gotten what I would consider to be a full page of Google. So get 10 items. And those 10 items don't have to all come from one place. They might be 10 items where you're being on somebody else's blog, you're featured on somebody else's podcast, you write a podcast, you write an article, you write a rebuttal, and then you're getting up there to where you're covering all these. You're doing a video, you're doing a podcast, you're doing a blog, and you're covering all your multimedia as well. Because remember, when we search, Google's smart enough to know what our preferred mode of consumption is, so they know that I'm a reader, they're going to serve me up more articles. They know Tom likes to watch videos, they're going to serve him up more videos. So you have to be conscious of that and be thinking, if I'm going to do 10 things to push this down, I need to do 10 things each media type. So it actually makes more work right in the podcasting space, you don't have to do that as much because, I mean, it appears on Google, but it kind of appears everywhere you can. Most people don't end up with a hundred percent audio. It just doesn't happen as often. So having some podcasting mixed in there is going to help be helpful.

And actually, the way that Google works, for the podcasts that you do publish, it tends to, when that keyword phrase pulls up results, it tends to give you the same episode on Apple, on Spotify, and on a couple different apps on that first page of Google. So that helps you sort of push some things down too, a little more quickly with less content. But yes, I agree wholeheartedly, Tracy. If you really want to bury some negative content that's out there in search on Google, record a whole lot of new content and create a whole lot of new content, you're going to push it down a lot faster. But you make some great points about YouTube being served to me because I watch video, you prefer to read, other people prefer to listen. The results are not identical for everybody who searches on the same keyword phrase. So just, you got to be aware.

So the last do that I have for it is, you know, so we've got three do's and two don'ts here. But the last do that I have is really just living in your integrity, but also associating with those with integrity as well. So in other words, we want to create this cross association. So if I'm going to address a negativity of what's going on in the industry, I also want to associate myself with someone else who already has a good reputation and a good, and they're already brand recognized. For maybe coming out against something or for something. And so I'm associating with their integrity as well. So that's really great to be able to be in that place. And let's have an open discussion, right? Let's have a commentary. Let's have a discussion about all those things that's going to really help you with both association and topic at the same time. So you're going to get both things resulting from that. And. And it's all going to have a lot to do with the bottom line, integrity building, rebuilding, in this case, if you're having to rebuild your reputation.

All right, Tracy, so maybe have we gone through all the do's and don'ts now?

We have, yes.

Shall we recap them? Just.

Yeah, why don't you go ahead.

Well, I don't have your list, so.

I didn't make a list. You know that, Tom. I just.

You have a list. You have a list right there on your desk. I know you do.

So I'm not going to maybe do them in the same order again because they won't come back to my head that way. But anyway, so the two don'ts, okay, the two don'ts are don't respond exactly. Without help. Right. Without an advisor. Right? Don't make a response without that advisor because it can open you up to liability. So get a lawyer or get a publicist or both communications expert, whatever. You need to make sure that you don't trip over that if you're going to make a direct response. So that's your first do as well. But we'll come back to that. The second don't is don't do something out of integrity. Don't do something that is angry. Don't do something that's not in keeping with what your brand's really about. Stay in who your brand is. Right? That's so important. So your do's on the other flip side of that is do use the keywords. Try to do a response in a way, but do the spin of that response. Right? The positive spin of that. So update to Response to rebuttal 2. Yes, you can do that. But also taking it and saying, really, is this right? Like truth and leaving it with that. And that's actually a great title. The Truth about Whatever it was, even though it's the reverse, right? We all wanna read about that. So those are good ways. So that's do. Your second do is to get someone to support you and help you with everything. And. And your third due is to publish, publish, publish and push Everything down and really make sure that you're doing that with good cross linking and cross associations.

We talked a little bit about the using the same keywords but twisting it just a little bit so you come up in the same searches, right? Yeah, absolutely. Excellent do's and don'ts, Tracy. And yeah, publish, publish, publish is sort of my mantra and generally it fixes everything one way or another. Because keep in mind, the more you talk about something and if you obviously multicast it, the way we're talking about video, audio, blog, the more you talk about something, the more content is going to be created. And even though you want that headline to be the same, that title to be relevant, Google has a way of deciding on their own based on what is said in the episode, what is relevant. And so it doesn't always necessarily need to be in the title to come up in that search. Although obviously if you're targeting some particular negative publicity out there, then going right after the title is going to help do that and push those other things down also. But I'm really more in favor of, instead of just a laser targeted approach, a little more of a broad approach. Yeah, go right after it, but then also surround it, surround it with a lot of content.

Yeah. That's why we say alternative keywords, similar keywords, things that are associated with it. Right. That's where we go when we go around something. I really hope this doesn't happen to you, that you have to do some brand reputation management. But here's the thing. Our gut instincts are usually wrong in how we want to respond to something. Right. We want to get angry about it, we want to lash out, we want to tell our truth. We want to get those things out there. They're not always the best options for you. And that's why we wanted to kind of bring this up. Because digital footprints matter long term and it's a technical algorithmic thing, it's not a human thing. So we have to do something that combines the two together. Right. So what we're saying and what we're addressing and our integrity and who we really are and presenting ourselves in the best light is the personal side of things and how we want to appeal. And the technical things, though, still, still have to be there to make sure that they actually have the functional effect we want them to. A really good example of this is a while ago. I mean, I think it was like seven years ago or something. Tom and I went to do business with someone and I'm really good at checking people out. I think our attorney is breathing a sigh of relief right now if he's listening to this, because it is true. I do Google people. I actually do my due diligence by checking them. And so before we were going to sign this $70,000 contract with someone, I googled them, check them out, I checked the references. But you know, people's references are, give.

You the good ones, they give you.

The good ones, right. So I wanted to see what else was out there. So I do things like I'd put somebody's name or their company name and rip off scam. Like I use those phrases, fraud, right. And see what happens. And so this particular company had a pretty nasty ripoff report article or post because it's kind of a self submitted thing. And so when I looked at that, I was like, okay, I'm going to read this, I'm going to understand it. But at the same time that I saw that ripoff report, I saw a blog on their website as a response, which I actually read. And so the way that they responded was, yes, we're addressing these things in the ripoff report because this really was a client and something really went wrong. And we want to address some of those technical things that happened there. But they took the high road. They didn't slam that person. They didn't say they were untruthful. They said, hey, we're thankful in a way because this person helped point out ways at which we could have supported her more and made sure that she didn't have this bad experience, didn't have the outcome right. The outcome, right, yeah, the negative outcome that she's unhappy with. So exactly. So I read both sides of it because it now clearly presented both sides. And when we had our next conversation, I asked the salesperson about it, the person who was asking me to sign the contract that day, and said, hey, I read about this and I watched his reaction and that was actually why I decided to do business with the company. Because his reaction was, yeah, you know, these things happen when we're learning in our business. I really wish we didn't have to respond to that at all. I wish we could have just ignored it. But I felt that we really had to address it and it informed these processes that we put in place. And now I feel the company's better for it. We didn't still satisfy this customer and there's nothing that I can do about it. This rip off report will exist forever. But we don't want to handle this and we don't want to see this happen again. And I believed him and we signed the contract. So that's really good. His integrity based response was really what got me to do business with them. That's where you want to live.

This is another good example of if you really feel you need to respond, and sometimes you may not need to, but you really want to, as Tracy said earlier, get some really expert help, whether that's an attorney, a publicist, a communication specialist. And part of this may be less about legal or the ins and outs of publicity, but just to get some perspective, because we all get too close to these things and having some perspective on how bad is this really and how is it going to appear when I respond and what kind of response will generate what kind of result? I mean, some perspective I think is very helpful.

Yeah. The last thing I want to leave everybody with is this idea. There are a lot of companies out there that offer brand reputation management. And if there are this company that's kind of like Credit Repair, right, Where they're offering to remove things from your credit report, they're offering to remove things from Google, it can go very wrong for you to do that. So whether or not they can do it is questionable in my mind because, I mean, there's a lot of digital footprint that lives forever. Google's not really great at responding to things that isn't a DCMA takedown, which would mean something that was copyright infringement. Right. And so that's an easier one than anything else. But. But if you're talking about brand reputation management, something you don't like, that they said, that's really difficult to do or costly to do if you've got to go the legal route to get them to remove something. But the idea of removing something can also make people angry and then they get angrier and then they find ways around it and it actually snowballs into something bigger. So it's better to keep it with one complaint. They said their piece, they're done, and you address it all over the place in ways that they don't know where. You're not commenting back to them, you're not lashing out at them. You're just commenting around everything that they're doing and the effectiveness is pushing everything down. That's way more effective and way less confrontational. It doesn't raise the tenor of everything. Right. And make it more nasty in that process, which can harm you more.

All right, Tracy, I think that's a good place to wrap this episode up. I hope everybody found that information useful. If you're interested in any of the things that were mentioned, link to them. Remember, there's a blog post for this episode on poditize.com also has the video. If you're interested in checking out any of that as well as all our other topics that there is a way you can search on anything related to podcasting what we talk about here On Feed you'd brand and marketing your business using podcasting, so don't forget you can check it out there.

So thanks everyone for listening. I'm Traci Hazzard along with my partner Tom Hazzard. On Feed you'd brand heard something valuable.

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