Driving Podcast Listener Traffic By Becoming the Perfect Podcast Influencers with Joe Fier of the Hustle & Flowchart Podcast

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazzard shares strategies, tips and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor. Now let's join Tracy as she explores how to rise above all noise with the binge factor.

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Feeds yous Brand center of Influence. And I am with another really great podcaster. I've got Joe Fear here from the Hustle and Flow podcast. Am I saying that right? Is it Hustle and Flow.

Hustle and Flow Chart.

Hustle and Flow Chart Podcast. Oh, I forgot the chart part. Oh, bad on me.

You're fine. Everyone done.

Oh, wow.

You know, thank you.

You know, but you also go under Evergreen Profits. Like you flip back and for. Do you have two names for it? Because I literally typed Evergreen Profits into itunes and it worked.

Oh, did it? I've actually, I don't think I've ever tried that. That's like our umbrella company. So all of our fun stuff, we have a whole blog, affiliate stuff. We do a lot. But the Hustle and Fluid Chart show is like our big baby. Like, we love that thing.

Yeah, I love that title. So Joe and Matt Wolfe, his co host, are the co founders of Evergreen Profits and it's an online education hub with podcasts, trainings, community. You got a lot of digital marketing support there. I'm helping leaders to ramp up those digital marketing results and I'm all about results here. You also host the fast growing Hustle and Flow podcast where You've interviewed over 200 worldwide renowned business influencers and best selling authors. You guys are really fun. You have lots of practical conversations. I like that you're always looking for the effective growth strategies where you can do the least amount of work because I'm a big fan of that. But you're what you guys proclaim yourself digital marketing generalists. I really like that today. So you have a really unique perspective on the latest digital marketing trends, the growth, the monetization strategies. But you're starting from this generalist view. Let's talk about that first. What does that mean?

Yeah, we came into our own, I would say kind of within the last few years because we used to think that was a bad thing. But now with the podcast, we've always been content creators, starting with the blog and all sorts of other ways we go on medium and all these other places to put content. But then the podcast came around. We're like, ooh, we know a lot about enough to talk the talk with the best of the best out there. So it allows us to actually ask the better questions to get the best meat out of these folks, to then educate our audience, and then we go and experiment with the stuff that kind of resonates with our own self and then we always present our results. So it's an interesting thing that we just now. It allows us to kind of spot gaps with opportunities. We do a lot of advising and partnerships with folks. So instead of just trying to really niche down, super focused, it's allowed us to really expand our network really wide and create these really interesting partnerships that allow us to do a lot more than we ever thought we could.

I've been hearing that a lot lately. So I was just interviewing Chris Denson for Innovation Crush. He's taking the really broad innovation look. And I have four podcasts. And so one of my podcasts is the opposite of that, actually. Two of them are deep dive into very niche sections of innovation, yet both have been working for us. So, like we kind of have both going on. So I have two that are generalist and two that are niche. And so I love that. I love that it's kind of working in both ways for people so that they can do both. But I really like the angle that you're taking on that.

So we started back in 2012 with our first podcast. So we had some iterations and we had some downfalls. The pod fade, when I finally learned.

What it's called, especially for the early people, I find that the early people who, they really had some fade in there, had a lot of retooling of their show, or as you've politely put it before, oh, yes, we're in season two. It was a meant.

Yeah, that's what's happened. So we had a few shows and started back in 2012. I can only wish that I stayed with it back then because it'd probably be way higher on the turrets and what. But that's fine. But we. Yeah, my partner Matt Wolf started or he kind of then started another podcast called Authority Insider and that morphed into our current show where I co hosted along with him. And then since then, now it's been about two and a half years, almost three on the current show. And so it's two times a week. And so it's cranking content. A lot of interviews out there almost.

Yeah. I love your process because you guys do a couple of days a week just like we do. And, you know, I don't think I could have ever tackled podcasting. And when we started, it was 2014 when we started recording, 2013 when we set ourselves up, and we were doing five days a week. And I think I would have lost my mind if we hadn't, like, really set it down to, like, it was going to be two back then, it was three days. Because five days a week takes a lot more time. But I don't think I could. I would have lost my mind that way. And I don't think people realize that you can just do that. You can set it up.

Yeah, it's the biggest thing, the difference that we weren't doing back then that caused that show to just fail. Multiple shows is batching, just batch recording everything. So we usually record two times a month and here and there. You know, for guests that have a tighter schedule, we'll sprinkle them in here and there. But that's fine.

Special guest, like, no.

And that. Yeah, he's systems guy. I'm not so much, so it's a good balance. Oh.

So it probably drives them crazy when they go outside in the two days.

He's getting better at it, though. That's the hustle and fluter thing. You know, I'm more of the hustle. He's the flute.

I'm the systems and organized one.

So.

Yeah, I can totally relate to that. It's blowing my schedule here, so. Yeah, I get that.

Yeah.

What were some of the interesting things you had happen to you when you set up and like, you know, got yourself going? Maybe some funny stories about what really went wrong?

Oh, well, I would say, let's see here. The stories will probably pop up organically in my brain, but for the longest, like, I would say for the first six months, we were just trying to find our voice again. Even though we did this so many times. Each show has its own kind of voice and, you know, you're attracting a certain audience. So it took us about six months or so, and then we kind of just stopped caring what other people thought. And I mean, to a point we're not going to go crazy, but we're not going to try to have a different voice compared to like us talking with our friends or us on just chatting on a call. So it was weird, but people picked up on that. We never said it specifically, like, oh, there's a big change. We're now just talking about whatever. And at first we were over prepared. I would Say, and a little bit more by the like. Okay, we want to hit all these bullet points, but now we're just kind of. We have a handful of things we'd love to talk about, but then it just kind of branches out organically with getting better at asking questions than being just genuinely curious in every single person that we bring in.

Isn't that a great thing about podcasting is like all of a sudden, 200 guests later, you're like an expert interviewer.

It just happens.

Yeah, it really is like crash course into your 10,000 hours, right?

Pretty much, yeah. Exactly Right. That's what happens. So, yeah, it took about six, eight months maybe to then finally get that groove. And still to this day, we're always playing around with different structures. I mean, we're always trying to improve.

Yeah. Try something new. Right. You gotta keep it fresh for yourselves. So you guys co host, so you have to be more organized. Are you in the same room? Do you co host separately? How does that work for you? Because that's a complication that most people don't have to take on, but those that do it can become cumbersome and they don't get started because of it.

True. Yeah. It's not required for a co host, but I prefer it. I know Matt does as well. And so we go to his house. He has an in home studio. We're looking to build out something a little bit more elaborate because it's just, you know, like a dedicated place where you don't have kids and all that stuff. Like in the back. I mean, nothing's in the background. We have great mics and all, but yeah, we just. He lives five minutes from me. So what we do is we. When we batch usually starts around 10am is our earliest call, and then goes. Sometimes we've done as many as four in a day, which is an hour on average per episode. The organization, again, that's Matt. So we have spreadsheets that have all this stuff lined out. We use Zoom to coordinate all the guests. And that's synced up with calendly. And so we have a lot of those, luckily, tie in together really well. They integrate. So all of the reminder emails to the guests are going out without us having to touch anything. And we basically show up at Matt's house. We have a little zoom recorder and a couple of Shure SM58 mics. We actually use handheld mics. We have a little kind of stand. It almost looks like we're on a stage or something, like we're at a rock concert.

You got the boom mic.

Yeah. It's fun though.

Yeah, I'm not at the desk because it's all hooked up through the system. Because when you co host, this is what most people don't realize. When you co host, you really do have to have an external device. You have to run it through some kind of equalizer. Because I'm really loud and Tom's not and I'm really fast and he's not. So like our editors need an ability to like adjust it and if you don't run it through that because you don't have the two separated tracks, you're bleeding over into each other's anyway. And so, yeah, so you have to have a little bit more equipment and you know that can be problematic. So Tom got the boom mics. Because I knock things over with my hands when I talk, as you just know. Yeah, you might have seen that. So anyway, yeah, so we got the boom mic and it still didn't work. I still managed to hit the thing, keep it entertaining.

Everybody on their toes.

That's right. That's right. So. But your equipment's not outrageous. Like those are not expensive microphones and that's not a whole expensive system, I mean, in the scope of things. So that's a really interesting that you've decided to stick with that model that's working for you.

It's simple and we do everything on zoom like we're doing right now. So most of our guests are in other locations around the world. Super simple to just bring everybody with a zoom link. And the audio quality is good. I know it could be better. There's more elaborate things out there. But with our editors, we have an editor we'll send it to. And it sounds great for being a remote location.

100%, your sound is really good. And Tom just did a huge mic study and the shure mics, and we use the ATRs, like all of them because they're dynamic microphones. They're better for non controlled environments. So if you're not in a sound booth, they make it easier and they make the editing smooth and they can do a better job of cutting out all those excess sounds. So good for you. So now, what number of shows are you at now? So you've done over a couple hundred, right?

We're almost at 200. Like we are like right there at the cusp.

But you're really more than that. You're a 200 in the current, correct? Yeah.

So this is the most consistent. And when we hit the 100 mark, I think that's when we finally were like, oh, we did it. Thank God we, we made it to 100. Most shows don't. I read some crazy stat the other day that I think it's 20 or 25. Not even 25%.

20%? It's less than 20%. It was like 18. Yeah, we just saw that too. So it's like 140,000 or so non pod faded podcasts. Now, of course, some of those are truly meant to be seasoned, so they're not in that number. My estimate has always been somewhere around 250,000, where I think that that's an intentional, like, you've taken intentional seasons on it or you've got volumes on it. But they would be, by the statistics, the way they calculated it, they would be considered pod faded, which isn't the case. They're just an old volume. Like, I mean, we did 560 episodes of 3D printing podcasts, so, yeah, they ended up in multiple volumes. So, you know, it made sense. Yeah, it did. Pod fade. Yeah. Eventually, I couldn't talk about 3D printing anymore. Right. So it happens to everyone. So knowing what you know now is getting really close to the 200, you know, what would you do different in your setup? What would you do different set?

Starting out the setup. Honestly, our setup has worked really well, and it hasn't really changed from the beginning. So it's. It's interesting. We always, like, if we were trying to do all the editing and all that stuff, production, like, no, that wasn't going to happen. So definitely have a good setup. I know you guys are amazing, and if you could just show up and the mic is there, ideally we would have a studio. And we are so close to doing that. We're just. It's like this whole thing of we love kind of working out of our homes, and we're only five minutes away, so it's kind of like there's not a huge benefit. But at the same time, if we could just have a studio, have the mics, have a tech someone there to just kind of do all that stuff, and we just show up and can focus on our guest 100%, you know, that allows us to do a little bit more research prior to each show, and that helps a ton. Even if we're not going to bullet point, we'll have a lot of little mental things we can think and then pull out in conversation.

Well, yeah, I mean, it's really hard to prepare for all your guests when you have to do all of that. So it's Hard to read up, listen to their shows if they've got shows or watch some of their videos if they've got those.

Yeah. And we love to prepare and we love to at least give it 30 to an hour for each guest, but can't always do that if you're trying to do everything yourself.

So what makes your podcast really unique from the others? Because there's a lot of digital marketing and success tips and podcasts in that category out there. What makes yours unique? What makes it binge listenable?

So one of the. I think it's a. We have a unique voice, so we have that generalist approach and that is definitely unique because a lot of these marketing or business podcasts are very focused. They're also shorter, typically other shows compared to ours. We have a longer form. Hour is like average. Usually goes even longer. If we can get on a good vein with someone and just riff like we are all about a good conversation, not just tactic, tactic, tactic, because we'll just get bored with that after a while. And I think a lot of business shows kind of do that.

Well, I think they're tapping into the digital marketers who have no attention span, so they think they have to be short. Yeah, you have both because you repurpose into shorts.

We do, yeah. So you did the research there. So we have a second spinoff show called Hustle and Flow Shorts. So instead of Hustle and Flow, chart Hustle and Flow Shorts. And that is typically 10 to 15 minute long episodes. They're like the best of clips from our main show. And we have an intern that we just. He does the voiceover in the beginning, so he kind of preps the episode, the big takeaways, and then there's always a call to action to go join our membership. You know, free trial in there, which is very. I think that's unique too. We monetize in very different ways than most shows would do. But those flow short episodes, it's only been around two months now, so it's a newer concept that we came up with.

But you don't have to do anything.

Nothing.

That's awesome.

Right?

Let's repurpose content.

And that's five days a week, so it's Monday through Friday. And the intern, we're going to hire him pretty dang soon here because he's rocking.

Yeah, I've heard some of them. They're really good.

Cool, thank you.

When you find your show, I mean, that's kind of the hard part for me is I'm so busy and when I Find a show that I like. The idea of binge listening is great, but I just, I can't do it. I don't have that much time. So that your shorts are wonderful because I can skip through a lot faster. So you caught my attention there. So, you know, you have probably made some mistakes though. You probably had like some screw ups.

Go on.

Maybe you didn't air them, but some funny things happened along the way. What has gone on with Joe and Matt and says Joe and Matt show always been, you know, smooth and.

No, no. So we like to have these therapy sessions. So that's where maybe once a month we'll release these. That's just Matt and I on the mic and we're just airing literally everything. We have no filter. And this is part of our catalyst to moving into our own voice because yeah, on that show we'll talk about the biggest failures, the screw ups that we've done. And those have been the best episodes, like the most liked and well received episodes that people actually reach out. It's so cool. Yeah.

I push my clients all the time to do some solo shows and see what happens.

And people want more.

And the people want more. They do give you feedback when they hear it the first time and they're like, that's what we've been looking for. That's what we've been waiting for.

Yeah. So I just thought of a story because I figured it would just pop up.

There you go.

Yeah. There was one podcast day and this is before we had redundancies in our recording.

Oh, no. I can only imagine.

You can see where this is going. We had. I forget who it was, but very high level. I think three shows that day that we lost all of them.

Oh, no. That's the problem with batch recording. There you go.

I know. Yeah. It's a blessing and a curse. So redundancy redundant. Now we have like three or four or something like that. So. Yeah. One was a New York Times best selling author. One was. Luckily she was a friend of mine or is still after.

After you made a re record.

Yeah. Well, here's the interesting thing is every single one of them agreed to it. They were. We owned it. Of course. We're like, we're only human. Tech failed us. We learned our lesson and we recorded the next sessions with them, all three of them. And they came out better. I feel like they were a little bit more comfortable. We knew where to take the conversation and no one would have known any different. And we have great relationships with them still. So phew.

It Worked out well. You know, for some people who are new to podcasting, they probably thought it was a relief because I've had a few guests go like, that was terrible. I was so nervous. But if you redid it, they'd be like, I'm okay with that. That was better. Now I can do it a second time.

That's right. Yeah.

So it probably worked all out for you.

Let's get to our big tips and lessons section. So, on your way to becoming a center of influence and podcasting, what has been some of the best ways you have found to book great guests?

To book. So we have a strategy. We have a Dream 100 list. So it's a spreadsheet, it's a Google Doc. And this is actually something Roland Frazier told us to do in a mastermind. So I was like, yes, sir, we'll do.

I like it. Dream 100. I like that it's better than Bucket list, because that doesn't sound good. Right?

Right. Yeah. He suggested we make this list and what we did is we made like 50, 50. We have some moon shots, like Elon Musk on there or Mars shots, whatever you want to call it. And you know, we have those because you never know who you're connected with. You're only usually like one or two steps from someone. Amazing that you like.

What?

I can interview that person? Yes, you can. And then the other 50% were people in our industry and people that we knew are like, okay, this is kind of a shoo in if we show this list to the right person. So what we do is we put that into our email signature, that Google Doc link. And I didn't know this at the time, but if you have Gmail, that thing's going to attach to your email. So every single person email, they're going to see that and they're going, oh, what's this thing? And we've had so many crazy connections from just that strategy alone. And it's completely automated, like we're not doing.

I love that. That is such a novel tip right there. So linking your Dream 100 list to your email footer so that other people who you're connected to go, I got to see who I can hook Joe and Matt up with. I love that. That's an awesome strategy.

And we put that in all of our follow ups too. For every guest we show up, you know, we always follow up. We're huge on follow up. And then that link's in there. So again, it's just another automated way to get referred to someone Else, that's amazing. And if they're not on the list, they're like, oh, well, this person's similar. Go talk to them.

Okay, that sounds good. Yeah. Why turn that down? I love that. What has been some of the best ways to increase listeners for you?

Ooh, we have started to pay for traffic lately, so there's a lot of podcast players out there that have. Sometimes you have to reach out to them, and sometimes they have open kind of markets. But we like to invest in the show now that we know how to make money from the show and monetize. So prior to that.

So you know who you're looking for.

Yeah. And podcast listeners, you know, they want to listen to other shows typically. So that's usually the best market to advertise to. We do a lot of Facebook ads as well. So we'll run kind of a dollar a day Facebook ad strategy to targets. Like if someone on our show is a target, like Roland Frazier or Dennis Yu, and there's all Tucker Max, there's all sorts of interesting folks that if they're a Facebook target, you could just run a dollar a day branding ad just to kind of show up in front of their audience. And that's how we perpetually run those every single day. So people are like, dude, we see your podcast everywhere. I'm like, I love that. That's what happens.

Yeah, you know, we're hearing that a lot more. We're hearing that as a launch strategy a lot more. We've been working on some strategies with our clients to make sure that they can get the visibility they need in the beginning with the right audience. So, yeah, we're hearing a lot more about paid ads.

So Good.

Good for you to keep them moving.

And just a free strategy is just go on other shows that simple as that. Go to similar shows. It's tried and true and just be consistent, you know, and it works for sure.

So now you guys produce in a professional way, but is there anything special that you do that you think makes it just a little more pro?

Yeah, the preparation, really, we go further than most, I feel like. And the fact that we're not only preparing for the guest, but just the topic as a whole, just so we're knowledgeable of like you are. Right here is asking questions that are very strategic and specific to that topic. Definitely been on shows where it was just no preparation and they're just like. They kind of just lean on you to drive the thing. Like, no, that's not how it works typically.

So I noticed you do Though have a prep sheet for those interviewing you. You have an evergreen note sheet you guys sent me. Do you send that to everyone you interview with? Because you know that they may not be prepped. So that was special for me.

Yeah, some people prefer it. We don't send it to everybody just because typically they. It just depends, I guess. And that was made because. Yeah, we went on to a few shows and they were not too prepared.

Like, okay, let me make sure you are. Yeah, yeah.

Because that resonates back to us and it kind of makes us look a little bit, like uncomfortable or the conversation's not flowing. Right. So we're always trying to get a good conversation going. Like, we don't like to like this. Like, I love how you're going back and forth and interjecting your own thoughts. Like, that's exactly what we do. And if it's just grill, like, question, question, question, question, it's just like, oh, man, this just gets boring. And for everybody, I feel like, yeah.

Do you have a specific, like, question or things that you like to start out in?

Our goal is to relate to them somehow. So it's not really a question. But right when we start every episode, we always bring up some story of how we met and some related person that might be in the mix there or location. It's just kind of. I don't know, there's some bond there. And that's what we're always trying to shoot for ASAP in the interview. Because we want to get them out of that whole sound bite kind of thing.

Yeah, you put some at ease if they feel like you're building a relationship with them instead. So I like that. That's a really good way to start going about it. So how do you get your audience to engage back with you? Encouraging engagement is, I find a difficulty among a lot of podcasters.

So it starts with follow up with the guest and so they could share the show around to their folks. And they do almost every single time, even the big name people, which is great. It's all about follow ups. You gotta do follow up. We also post in all of our groups. So we have Facebook groups, we have pages, we have the ads, all these things retargeting. We're big on Facebook and Google retargeting. So if they landed on our show notes page, which we direct people to from our show, we're always trying to get them to download the cheat sheet. We take notes on every podcast. So our idea is to just get them onto our own webpage so we can Retarget them with a freebie or some kind of thing of value. Maybe it's a video of us talking about some topic. That's the way that we're always trying to stay in front of people after they get off the episode with us. And it works.

Good, good. Yeah, they're looking for more. So now you said you found some good ways to monetize your show. So what have been the best ways for you?

100% affiliate marketing is in the follow up sequence, not directly on the show typically. So our process looks. We don't take any sponsorship. We actually just closed our first sponsorship the other day, but it was kind of a custom deal. And the CPM model, to be honest, you're not going to get rich. You're not going to make a lot of money and it's going down and you don't know what that is. Just Google it. Podcast CPM rates. So we decided. Well, we actually ran the math and what Typical. You would probably know better than I said. It's about $20 for a CPM.

It used to be 60.

Did it? Wow.

It used to be 60 when I was taking ad dollars actually. And we could command 100 because we had a really niche show so there wasn't a lot of competition. But yeah, it's gone way, way down. That's why we poditize. I like no plug here, but that's why we developed it was because I thought it was ridiculous and no one's ever going to make money doing that.

You're right. And I'm happy that you guys created that because the market needs it, seriously. And we spoke on some podcast stages recently because we ran the numbers and we're like, wow, the way that we're doing this and albeit it's not just on the show, it's follow ups and affiliate marketing and selling related products. We're right around the $2,000 CPM. If we ran the math and compared, we're like, ooh, that's way sexier than trying to.

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah. But it's all about follow up. So we try to get them on an email list with some kind of freebie. Like I said, we take notes. So we actually have someone who takes about three or four pages of notes for every episode. So we're like, hey, save some time, join our email list. And then they see that and then from there it's just follow ups.

I love that. I love that. So now are you guys everywhere on social media? Because this is hard with co hosts. So do you have A social just for the show itself, so you guys can be together in your social. See, Tom and I are married. It's a little bit easier because I just handle all the social media and make it look like it's both of us. But, you know, for you guys, that's not so easy.

Yeah, you're right. And we don't have a show, Instagram or all that stuff. Like, it's all under Evergreen profits, which has worked out because we hashtag and make sure the branding is there. It's pretty obvious. And now it's so integrained, like the show and the brand. No one really questions it too much, but we have our personal accounts, so Matt runs his own and I run my own. And then there's the brand. And the brand is managed mainly with our intern, actually the same guy that he's doing the short show. So every time an episode goes live, that's getting all over the interwebs and plastered everywhere in our groups and all that stuff on Facebook as well. Yeah, I mean, we try to separate the personal because we asked a ton of people, and that's the personal brand. That's where people are really going to relate to you a lot more. And then our whole thing is to bring them over to the brand, to the show after that, and really dive deep into some topics with us.

So you mentioned before that you have this dream 100 list. Who's some of the big asks on there? Maybe they'll hear my show. Maybe they'll read my article on Authority magazine. You never know.

Let me pull that. It's funny because someone asked me this just today. I was like, oh, there it is right in front of me. So Elon Musk was one of them.

Right.

We have names all the way from. What do we have here? Jay Z's on there. But see, these are Jeff Bezos. Those are some of the long shots. But then we have our people like Ray Dalio, who is still very big name, but actually just spoke to a guy who has a connection with him.

So I might have an in maybe happen. There you go.

Rachel Hollis is very popular these days. Robert Cialdini, all the Sharks on Now.

I can connect you to him.

Ooh, that'd be cool.

So, yeah, Persuasion is one of my favorite books.

It's a great book. Yeah. I have on here Pre Suasion as well.

Yeah. Yes.

Blakely. Yeah, there's a bunch of names on.

Here, but yeah, that's great. So do you have a criteria that makes someone really a great guest for you?

That's a good question. Yeah. So we love people who have done something amazing and it doesn't necessarily have to be in the business space. So like, that's why we have, I think Shaquille o' Neal is even on our list. They have a business sense to them. So there's always something we can relate to in terms of a great story. They're capable, they have great results. We're trying to up level the show more and more. So ideally they're going to have kind of a known name or an audience that we can kind of leverage a little bit with our ads and our sharing and all that. So ideally it's kind of that and we want to see that they could just have a great conversation and they're just open, you know, and not going to be kind of a stick in the mud in the interview. And so we'll do our research. We'll go to what Pod Notes, I think it's called, or podcast or listen notes. That's what it is, listennotes.com, which is where it's almost like a little Google for podcasts. And we'll do a lot of research there and see it looks interesting. Okay. Then it's checking the boxes for us.

Interesting. I like that. I call it vetting people because it's the columnist in me comes out and you have to vet someone to make sure they're worth writing about. And so when someone clicks through to them, like, you know, it used to be like, did they have a best selling book? And you know, have they been on TV shows? But now it's like, do they have a good digital footprint? Like there's more that you have to care about. And so I joke that my worst interviewer was John Travolta. Great celebrity, but terrible digital footprint actually. And his team had no follow up. And so, yeah, you know, so there you go. Like it sounds great, but you have to have a criteria that fits what you want to do with it. So I love that you guys have a methodology behind everything. So before we go, I want to make sure that you any tips that you have for someone starting out on how they can become a more successful center of influence, not just become a podcaster, but become an influencer. With podcasting.

Yeah, I think you got to have a genuine interest in people for one and for whatever topic you're really trying to be that influencer in, understand enough, maybe do some generalist approach, stay tapped in. Like with podcasting, we're always tapped in with the latest news. Every morning as is Matt. So we know what we're talking about with stats, as you guys are as well, and actually just figure out a way to give value to expand your network as well. And then from there, referrals will happen. That digital footprint gets a little larger if you go on other shows or get interviewed by others. Maybe you're featured with some PR in a column, things like that. You know, you probably correct me if I'm wrong, but it's like, if someone's there to help you to make your job a easier thing in writing a piece or producing a podcast or some kind of feature anywhere, you're already going to be like, just try to give value. So if you can do that and then select some few folks to actually give this value to and if that's gonna respond and reciprocate a little bit somehow in your business and where you're trying to go.

So I like that. A value and service first mentality always. You know, it's a great way to. Yeah, because you're influencing from the right place.

And that's all we're trying to do with our podcast, is make it a win, win, win, win for us. Win for the guest and then the listener.

So what's in the future for Hustle and Flowchart?

We want to keep growing that show, want to keep up leveling the guests and the conversations. Ideally, we want that thing to be like the number one focus of what we're doing right now. We can't, but we're getting close. Started off as one day a week, now it's two. So we have seven more days to fill in. There you go.

You're getting it up there. I love it. Well, Jo, it's been a pleasure having you on the show. I can't wait for our listeners to listen to your show because there's really some great broad digital marketing tools, tips, just ideas that are out there. And, you know, we're all for broadening the perspective because you can't just podcast alone. You've got to do all these other things to support it as well. And you guys have a lot of value that you add there. So thank you for bringing Hustle and Flowchart and you and Joe into the digital marketing sphere through podcasting.

Thank you, Tracy. It's been fun.

So this has been Tracy Hazzard on Feed. You'd brand center of influence. And we'll be back again with a new influencer coming up next week. Thanks for listening.

You've been listening to the Binge Factor PODC for more information on podcasting and videocasting success tips and tactics, please go to thebingefactor.com and be sure to listen to our other show for podcasters called Feed you'd brand. If you'd like to be interviewed on this show as well as featured in Tracy's column, please go to thebingefactor.com guest and apply.