Earn More Recognition For Your Show With Podcast Consultant Mathew Passy Of Causepods (Podfaded)

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazzard shares strategies, tips and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor. Now let's join Tracy as she explores how to rise above all the digital noise with the Binge Factor.

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Binge Factor. I'm Tracy Hazzard and I have a guest on the show that we honestly should have had a conversation before now. We have both been in the marketplace of the podcasting marketplace for quite some and I can't believe we haven't actually connected yet. Matthew Passi is just a phenomenal podcast consultant. He's the podcast consultant, that's how he's known in the industry. He has a show called Cause Pods that we're going to talk about today and I think it's a really great show and it's his give back into the marketplace. So Matthew is a podcast producer consultant at the Podcast Consultant, a podcast agency that helps individuals, brands and small businesses develop, launch, produce and promote podcasts. He's behind Audit My Podcast and Instant Podcast Audit, a service offering a full review of podcasters production and searchability, discoverability, marketing and in order to ensure that they're not hindering their ability to succeed. This is where Matthew and I are highly aligned. We do this all the time at Pottitize and it's such a critical factor and I really wish no matter who you use, go get an audit of your show. If you're already podcasting. It's the critical factor in making sure that you are discoverable. So whether you go to Matthew, you come to us. I don't care as long as you're getting an opinion on this from someone who knows what they're doing. He also hosts Podcast Me Anything and Cause Pods and Podcast Me Anything is like a Q and A and causepots is so fascinating and so fun because it's a give back to social good enterprises. So I want you to hear all about the creation, all about Matthew Passey. So go check out the rest of this episode and listen in while we talk. CauseBots. Matthew, thanks so much for being on the show. I'm so glad we're finally connecting here and getting to know each other and we've had such a great pre chat and we're like let's get to our Interview here because I want everybody to hear all about causepods.

It is such a pleasure to be on. And yes, this is definitely one of those times where I wish all that stuff we talked about was being recorded and it was part of the show.

Just so we could dish about the industry and what's going on and everything. But cause Pods, you're over 100 episodes. Congratulations on that. Love the niche area because I think it's really underserved. I think we don't get enough social good podcasts talked about because they are different than business podcasts, than ones that have a mission of getting marketing accomplished for you. They're marketing their mission and they're also trying to change hearts and minds. That's hard.

It is really hard for these folks to be cause potters, right? It is. A lot of them are shoestring budget, no budget at all. Work for a nonprofit, right? Low on staff, low on resources, low on bandwidth. But they are so passionate, they have such well meaning intentions with what they are going to do. The whole point of this project was to elevate their efforts, elevate their messages, try and put more of these folks in front of more potential audience. And truthfully, yes, as a podcast producer, consultant, somebody who has a business in this space, having your own podcast is naturally a marketing product. But this is actually, to me, this is like the CSR of our business. I have been very blessed, very fortunate. I've been in the space for a while, went from being myself, doing it alone, growing it to where we are today with over 100 shows, a team of over 20 folks, revenue that's been growing every year. And I am fortunate that there are people who want to pay us to help them with a podcast. And so this is my way of giving back, which is finding these podcasters who are doing such good in the world. I love my clients, but most of my clients are wealthy folks using their podcast to make more money. Nothing wrong with that. Good for them, happy for them. I'm a big fan of capitalism, but it feels good to invest my time, effort and money to help these other folks over here who have such well meaning intentions, don't have the support, don't have the network, don't have the ability to amplify themselves and get them on the show. And the conversations are great, right? I enjoy it, I enjoy meeting these folks. But honestly, the thing I love best about doing the show is when the recording is over. I usually spend about 20, 30 minutes with most of them doing like a free consulting call, being like Listen, I was looking at your show, by the way. You should be doing this. It's like all the stuff that people pay good money for and you can.

Gift it to them.

Yeah, I'm so thrilled to be able to help them in just little ways to help them improve their efforts.

This is what I was really thinking as I was going through your show and I was skipping around episodes going, wow, that's a really great business. That's a really great mission. And I was thinking of all the podcasters in my network who should have have them as guests on their show. So this is what I'm going to encourage my listeners to. If my listeners are out there trying to figure out how you can occasionally get in, at least try once a month. Think about that bringing in a social good aspect into your show. Go through Matthew's show, go through cause and just pick some of them because he's already vetted them for you. They're already right there and they are amazing. So if you want to do something that's related to kids. I just interviewed the friendly podcast guide, Andy Smiley, and I totally love her. I heard the episode about the kids podcast and the author and I thought, they have to meet each other. She needs to be on Andy's show. Like, these things need to happen because we all need to raise awareness to them and it might be perfectly in our niche. And you've got them all lined up for us.

Yeah. And I wish that we had a better categorization system. So you could say we're focused on mental health. Boom. Here are all the shows that we've talked about mental health. We are focused on kids. Here's all the show about kids. But right, you can just scroll through and from the image or from the title, you can get a good sense of what these folks are doing. And yeah, most of them, nearly all of them, really authoritative, really smart, really good. And because they are so passionate about what they're doing, they are great guests. They show up, they bring their A game. And we're always told, interview other podcasts is a way to grow your show. And then you interview someone, you're like, oh, that person didn't promote anything. These folks are gonna promote it because they know being on your show is gonna help them as well.

They gotta get their word out. That's the only way they get more donors and they get more members into their communities. They only have that. So, yeah, they're gonna do a better job. I love that. That's a really great focus for you. You've Been in and around the podcast industry for a really long time and more than a decade, and this can't be your first show. So what are some of the other shows you've done over the years? Cause I know because I have eight. So, like, I know you're in that category with me.

The first show I ever launched, I was working for a talk station here in New Jersey. We just packaged up the morning news and put it out there. And then I went to work for a larger media organization, Wall Street Journal Radio Network. And my job there was to produce podcasts, host them, create them, whatever. So over there I hosted about seven to 10 shows over my span of working there. One of the ones, two of the ones over there I was super proud of was getting married and getting high. My friend over there who is now over at cnbc, we got engaged around the same time. She's a personal finance reporter. Let's talk about her experience getting married and share all these stories and hints and tips and the pitfalls to avoid. And so that was a ton of fun. And then she left, went to cnbc. And then I decided to pivot to getting hired because it was post financial crisis and we needed jobs. And so I would interview HR recruiters, right? Hiring managers, people like that, and just find out, like, what are they looking for? What are people doing wrong? So those were a lot of fun. But once I got out of that business, the Dow Jones decided to like, just end. The radio network laid off all of us. And that's how I found myself doing this on my own. My first one that I did on my own was Pot Up Podcast, which horrible name, but I just.

As you admit your own, I just named it.

Oh, I've had some bad name podcasts.

You get to pivot them.

So that's true. And podup was probably like, when I first started, that was like, oh, I'm going to interview other people. That's going to help me grow my podcast business. Which it probably did, or at least it got me connected with more people in the space. I did the Pod to Pod podcast when I was working for that podcasting news. It was one of the most popular podcasting newsletters, Pre POD News. But then once Pod News came along, I looked at the guy who founded it. His name was Joseph Berman. I was like, this guy's going to eat our lunch and we either need to step up or get out. And we were just like, nah, James is too good at this. Yeah, Pod News, the floor is yours. So I walked away from that Then podcast me anything. Right. The joke there is an ask me anything, podcast me anything, write an AMA kind of style podcast, or it's had a lot of different iterations, but that's the one that I keep. Today is my way to find out what's going. Truthfully. Podcast me anything. I hope people listen. I know people listen. They tell me they like it, they get some. It is such a selfish endeavor because it just allows me to interview other people.

That's what this one is for me. I think I get way more out of it. But I do hear from listeners and I'm glad they're listening. But I get a lot more here.

Yeah. The fact that when Chartable first came out and I was able to get Dave Zorab on the show and I was just like, the only reason I got him was because I had a podcast. If I was just like, hey, Dave, I'm a random podcaster. Can I ask some questions? Like, yeah, he might have tried to sell me, but we just had this great connection and it was a lot of fun. Podcast me anything is a very selfish thing, but I'm excited to get back into it, interview other folks and see what's going on because the space is just getting fascinating out there.

It's getting really interesting. I agree with that. What are some of the things that, from doing all those shows, do you find to be the hardest thing to keep going and keep podcasting?

The hardest thing about it is I'm so busy with the day job, and this is like the same excuse that all the clients have. Most of the people who are listening to this, who have their own podcasts, who do it as either part of their job, so busy that it just falls in the priorities. Right. If I don't prioritize, it's very easy for me to go weeks and months at a time without doing an episode. And so I understand, folks, when you say, I really want to do this, but over here I'm actually making money with this time, and over here I want to do it. But you got priorities, right? You have mouths to feed and people to take care of and clients who need answers most of the time yesterday, right?

Yes, exactly. Yeah. It's the same problem, right?

Absolutely.

Do you have tools, systems, processes, advice that you give out to your own clients and things that you try to put in place for yourself to force you to be more accountable?

The best advice that we give people when they are launching is we tell everyone to start with at least four to six weeks worth of material before they launch. Right. Because it is so easy to be excited, launch a podcast, do it week one, do it week two, something happened. You don't release week three. And then once you miss that first episode, it's so easy to make excuses and not do it. The minute you miss an episode and there's no reaction to you missing an episode, you're like, oh, nobody misses me. And so it's easy to make excuses in your head that, I don't need to do this again. So staying ahead of schedule, staying consistent, staying organized. We use ClickUp for our backend for the business, so love it. Oh, I love what it can do. I don't always love the way it does it, but story for a different day.

Yeah.

Not just. It's also somewhat unreliable, like when it's unreliable. But anyway, I digress. So then we use that for. Right. Keeping the shows on track as well. And so that's always good to have organization. Of course, it also helps to have people to help you. Right. For a long time, Cause Pods was not only my csr, but it was a great playground and testing space for new editors. We were hiring new writers, new services. So if somebody was coming along, they wanted to work for us, I would say, great, go edit this episode of Cause Pods. Because it's my show. I can live with problems on that show. I would never do that to clients. CausePods became this great space for other people to show me what they could do and test it out. And if it went late, so be it. Not the end of the world. Now I get to just enjoy the conversational aspect of it, and somebody on my team does all the rest of it. So it makes it so much easier for me to keep going on because I can just enjoy the conversation.

It's your give back. So you're. At least you're getting that out of it, so it makes you want to keep going.

Truthfully, like, that's exactly what our clients, the people who work with you, the people that work with us, that's what we provide. We provide that ability for them to just enjoy the conversation and not stress about all the nitty gritty, all the laborious parts of having a podcast.

Your sound is amazing on it, which it should be. And I heard a rumor that you're opening a studio.

Is it open yet? As we're speaking, it is open.

So we signed a lease for the studio back in December. Actually, it was the December 1st. We took the keys literally. We're like, okay, the pandemic is finally breaking. People are gonna wanna get out there. It's time. I've been thinking about the studio for years. Let's finally do it. And then literally like the afternoon that I got my keys, I started hearing this thing. Let's talk about the Omicron variant.

I'm like, oh, come on, it cannot be happening again.

I know. So we opened the studio, took a couple of months to really get ourselves situated, get everything in place that we wanted to get it to work the way we want it to work. But we've been open since about March. We've got a bunch of clients who are coming in. It's really exciting. And we're actually already starting to eye new locations because we've learned what we should have done better. And we're going to. We're expanding and growing and thinking about all these things.

And you record video and audio in the studio?

Correct. So we have really good high quality RE320 microphones in there. We've had a couple of different systems of cameras in there. But. Right. The idea is to be able to get ISO tracks so that either we can produce very high quality video or we can just give you high quality stuff and have you take it and run with it. But it's called towncast Studios. And the real dream behind towncast is to create excitement and enable more folks who want to create content about their community. Right. That like farm to table content creator. Because I'm sure like many of your clients, many of our clients, they have a very big national focus, right. They are trying to hit as many people as possible coast to coast around the world. And that's great. But they are competing with so many other big brands that are doing the same thing. And what we are finding, right, we've got lots of accountants and financial advisors. Accountant comes along. Yeah, I'm going to launch a show. I'm like, what's it going to be? It's going to be about accounting. I'm like, okay, how many different ways can you tell me? Two plus two is four. It's not very hard to differentiate yourself and very hard to niche down, which is super important. But what we've been finding is that folks who ignore that aspect of it and instead take a focus on the demographic that they're targeting. Right. Talk about their community, talk to interesting business leaders in their area. They get so much more out of it because they are serving a niche that is underserved and lots of different ways they are networking with all these people who are actually a bigger potential for using their services. And I think it's filling a void of the death of local media that we've been seeing for decades. Right. Newspapers, television, radio, all that stuff is getting regionalized and nationalized, and newsrooms around the country have been emptied out and whittled down. And I think there's a big opportunity for more people to get back in there, fill that void by being their own independent, localized content creators.

I think that's so true. And this is what I want to point out to the listeners is that we find this on our. So we have lots of chiropractors, doctors, professionals. And they don't always talk about. And I hope they don't always talk about, like, the technical part. We coach them not to. But we have a great show actually in your area in New Jersey, Expect Miracles. And I love the host there because he made this decision that he was gonna buy a practice and take over someone else's practice. And so he decided to start the podcast as a way to introduce himself and what he cared about. And he cared about the miracle of improving your health. And that's why he calls it Expect Miracles. Plus, he was saved by chiropractic. He literally had a never gonna walk again injury. And. Yeah. Dr. Kevin Peckett. And so he was able to start this podcast before he got the practice starting. So he had some time to fill it. Do his couple of months and get that in. And he had that all launched so that when he came into the practice, he could introduce himself to his potential patients and hope that they would stick around. And then what happened was, is that he'd start to talk to them more and he started some networking with the local area. And what he found was, is that he was ranking higher than other chiropractors, even though he rebranded the practice itself to. Because he kept mentioning where he was in New Jersey. And so people would type in best chiropractics in West Orange. And. And all of a sudden he would appear on the list because he had way more content than they did. And that was working for him. So I really believe that if there were. If they work in this model of from a strategic standpoint and all the technical. Is working for them to localize with Google, they're going to end up in exactly the right place with way more business than they expected to in a much lower marketing spend.

Yeah. And not only is he improving his searchability, which we could talk for hours about how that is good for you, of course, but he's endearing himself to his community. You have a conversation with someone about West Orange, not about Chiropracting just.

Or the golf courses in West Orange. Like, this is one of the topics that they've talked about. And how do you get back on the course? Kind of works its way into that. I might need a chiropractor for that.

Right. Like you interview the owner of the local golf course, and now that person knows who you are. After the interview is done, they say, so what do you do? Oh, I'm a chiropractor. They're going to go, oh, great, I just met this person. I had a wonderful time. I had a great conversation. I feel like I built a relationship with them. When somebody asked me for a chiropractor, who am I going to say? This amazing person who I just met.

Yeah. Oh, my back is just killing me. I can't play golf today. It would be like the pro is going to go, oh, we have the perfect chiropractor for you.

We have this amazing, amazing interview with this chiropractor nearby. And you've endeared yourself to the community the same way you would if you put your name on the back of the kids jerseys who were playing Little League.

That's going back to that model right where the dentist, the orthodontist, the real estate agents, they were advertising on our kids. Our kids have a jogathon every year. And I always think, wow, okay, that's really great that they're still advertising. They're still doing these things that they're on the banner, they're sponsoring the ice cream social. And when I came time to select my orthodontist for my girls, this is the first thing I thought of. I was like, you know what? They sponsored the local school, and they were on the list of referrals from my dentist. I'm like, I'm going to pick them. That's how it happened, right?

Yeah. They're part of your community. That's exactly what it is. And the ease at which you can do all the other pieces of it. Marketing, promotion, live interviews, monetization. It's so much easier to do the all. All of those things when it's right outside your door, versus having to connect with someone on the other side of the country. Oh, would you like to sponsor my podcast there in California? Who are you? Where are you from? But no, now if I want to get a sponsor, I can say, I'll stop by the office tomorrow, we can have a quick chat. Easy enough.

It really is. I love that model. I think that's going to work so great for you. And I'm so Glad someone's thinking local. We think podcasting, we just think broadcast. And I really think that's missing the point. And I can see that you're starting to think that and dive into that and really build services and products and places. Towncast, Love it.

Hopefully there's a towncast coming to those listening, one coming near you.

Let's get this franchising out. Yeah, let's get this moving.

That's the dream.

Let's start talking about a few of the things that I know you give expert advice and whether we talk about it with CausePods, although I do want to talk about it just slightly on a Cause pods bend to it, because that's our topic for today, our show that we're featuring for today. But when I ask all of my guests how they get great guests for their show, I also want to know what are you doing to really screen them, to vet them, to check them out. And in cause pods, that's a risk, right? Because if you've got these social good companies, are they really truly 501c3s? Does it matter? You're going to give them some amount of publicity and authority. It's always risky if that's not a legitimate organization. And so what do you do to.

Vet that with cause pods? It's interesting because when I first started it, the idea was you had to be a 501C3 because we were going to create everybody who came on. The idea was, we'll create your own GoFundMe page and we'll drive donations to your cause. And it quickly got too complicated and too onerous and it just wasn't going to work. So we backed off on that and we said, okay, you don't have to be a 501C3, but we're still going to help promote a good cause in the area. So we've actually made it really easy in that. I've got a scheduling link right there on the website. You go ahead, you put your information in, you find a time that works for you. I have to approve it. And I would say 98% of the time, I approve it. I could tell just by looking at the title, looking at the description of the show, this is a good fit for it. And even faster I can look at something and be like, no, you're just selling services. Sorry, not a good fit. Or we met via pod match, right? I'll get a lot of people reaching out, like, I've got a great person for cause pods. They are the number one philanthropist and blah, blah, blah, and it's really easy to say, do they have a podcast? No. Then they're not a fit. Right. This is that one caveat is you just have to have a podcast. And I say to them, if they launch a podcast, they are welcome back. But going beyond cause pods, because it's really. And anybody listening, if you have a cause based podcast, don't hesitate, go sign up. Happy to have you on, excited to talk to you, hear your show. But when it comes to our clients, when it comes to other shows, I find that when I am going out there looking for guests, I simply ask. I don't. There are people who like, how do you do this? It's so complicated, blah, blah, blah. I just ask. I make it clear to the person that I think they are interesting, they can provide value, we can share their message or we want to learn from them. And short of those folks who say, I only do shows with a minimum of 10,000 listeners so I can promote.

My book, or I don't like that.

Yeah. Or the person's like, I'll be on your show for $500. Listen, it's fine. You want to do that, that's fine. I'm not going to pay you for it. But I'm not upset that you do that. But I'm not messing with that. But I find 90% of the time if you say to someone, hey, Tracy, I think what you're doing is really interesting. Can I ask you about it? Can I learn more about it? Can I share what you're doing with folks?

I'm gonna be like, no, you can't share me.

No, you can't dote all over me. No, you can't talk nicely about me. No, you can't find out what I'm doing and share it with your audience for an hour. It's hard for people to say no if you are genuinely curious and interested in them.

We were just talking about this prior to our episode recording here, that I was talking to Alex Sanfilippo from Podmatch, which is how Matthew and I reconnected up here. And he said that he has improved the machine learning that is basing on it. So if I wanted to type into podmatch, I have a question about this, you will be able to do that in the near future. That will be very cool. So not only can you say, I want someone who has a podcast, because you can screen that out through that system, but I also want someone who has a podcast. This is on this particular answer to this question. And that would be so cool.

And by the way, on the flip side, because our email is in a lot of RSS feeds, we get a lot of cold emails from people pitching guests and they always start with, loved your last episode. Love listening to the show. Hey, Tom, it's like you emailed Matthew at the podcast consultant. Like, why are you leading off with hey, Tom, why are you telling me you listen to the show when for calls bots, right? You listen to the show, but you pitch somebody who doesn't have a podcast. The minute I know that you are full of it, I'm putting you in the inbox and I'm blocking you.

They block them. That's why. So even if they were a legitimate guesting organization that is gonna. They've blown it right there and they're never gonna get through my inbox again.

No. And having worked in radio and news for a long time, the way good PR folks do it is they build a relationship. They talk to you, they find out. Cause 90% of my shows, they don't want outside guests. Like, they are interested in what they're interested. They don't wanna sell your books for you. They're curious about what they're curious about. So stop wasting your time emailing us about it. But the person who does build a relationship and say, hey, so let's talk, blah, blah, blah. And then they say, I do have a guess for it. They nail it. Or at least they show that they're paying attention. Then, yeah, I'm going to take their pitches, I'm going to be proactive, I'm going to say, you know what we're looking for. Who do you have for me? And it's going to work so much better.

Yeah. And that's going to do a lot of the heavy lifting. Then at that point. Okay, let's talk about the second thing that I ask everybody about, which is increasing listeners. This is the big thing that everybody really wants to do is how do I get more listeners? What have you done that has been working for you and what have you done for your clients?

It's such a generic cop out answer. There are lots of really good podcasting hacks out there, right? There's be a guest on other shows, have more podcasts, guests on your show, run ads on other shows, do this on social media, have the email list, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yes. All those things will give you incremental increases to your show and over time they will get you there. What works best is to create content that is compelling, that is interesting and that is delivering value to your audience. We are most podcasts, we give these away for free. Right. It costs you nothing to listen to the show, but I still have to invest 20, 30, 60 minutes of my time to listen and I've got a lot of options out there. So the only way that you are going to succeed is if you create content that is truly valuable. Tell us what you are going to give us, and you deliver on that promise and you appeal to the emotions of your listeners. Right? Like lots of people when they're promoting their stuff on social media, they say, check out the latest episode where we talk to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I sit there reading their social media feeds and I'm like, I'm bored reading this out loud. And I'll read a ton of stuff on Twitter. It's all going to bore me. What gets us to stop is somebody who can make me feel something in their post, in their intro, in their description, even in the way that they talk to someone, right. They solicit some sort of emotional response, even if that response is not anger. Even if I think to myself, oh, I do not like this person, I'm still going to go back and listen because I want to, I want to get mad.

I wonder what that's about, right?

So if you are. And the reason why this is important is because 90% of the time, the way people discover new podcasts is someone they know or trust says, hey, Tracy, I know you're into this podcasting stuff. I just heard a show about X. And if Tracy loves, trusts, respects, whatever, she's more likely to check it out than some random podcast ad that comes across your social media feed. So create content that makes your audience excited to tell Right people about it.

Exactly.

That's it. I know, and that's not easy.

It's not easy, but when you hit that, that's what works. So I'm going to interrupt our three things because we could talk about monetization. I know you and I are going to go through the rest of our hour on that.

You have three days.

Exactly. So before we get to that, I want to hit on your binge factor because it's my job to psychoanaly your show and give you your binge factor. So this is the thing that I love the most about cause pods. And it's a very unique setup of what you've done with this compilation of social good podcasts that you're featuring on your show. Here's why it works so well when you're talking to them on the show. You're building in this exact thing that you're telling the audience to do here, which is you're building in and hitting at the heart of the conversation. Why is this podcast worth listening to? How is this supporting your mission and where is it going? And what are the members, the people that you want to build in this community? What's the essence of this? You get right to that right away in your episodes. And I think that's really why it makes me go, okay, I want to click on this episode and listen to it and then I listen to the whole thing. Before I know it, you just pulled me right in by anchoring it with the purpose at the beginning of every single episode.

And it's funny because you can always tell how passionate that person is, but also how passionate I am about that person. Because if I don't sense that. We had a woman on recently who helps people getting out of cults and things like that. And yeah, right away, Indoctrination Nation, I think it was like, you hear that story right away, oh my God, I don't care that I'm recording a podcast. Tell me more.

That's right. I gotta hear this.

And you're just, you're in it and you forget what you're doing. And then there's others where you hear them talking, you're like, yeah, okay, let's just get onto the podcasting stuff. Like, so you can kind of tell when that passion isn't there. We also only once or twice have I ever not aired an episode because it just wasn't a good fit or didn't work, or the person clearly wasn't a cause based podcaster. But I would say for others, if you're not gonna really hit the mark, if you're not really gonna have that emotional appeal, don't air it. Do as I say, not as I do. It's okay to not air an episode that just doesn't work, that just doesn't hit the mark or doesn't deliver the value that your audience wants because you're.

Trying to build a bingeful show, which is really, at the end of the day, if I'm getting this in 90% of your episodes, I'm totally in. I know that there's gonna be some that you can't control. Like, it's just. I'm a seasoned podcast listener. Most binge listeners are. They're gonna know and they're gonna be forgiving about a couple of ones that just aren'. But if you're doing it most of the time, which you are. I'm going to keep going.

And what's interesting is it's really like by the nature of what we do, it is not a very bingeable show. Right. We will have people who listen. You'll see episodes that spike because the person shared it. Or it's a topic that's really interesting, like a mental health show, it spikes. And then next week we're talking about whatever genetic disease, rare genetic disease. And it's like, I'm not really interested in that.

Yeah. Because you might have people who jump all over because the causes aren't appealing to them. And just by the title they're going, nyah, nah, not for me.

Yeah. We find a lot of the audience participation is topic specific and host specific. If that host is so enthusiastic, they're sharing it like crazy. Yeah. The numbers are spiking. That person, they're not, they don't care as much. They're not putting as much passion into it or the topic doesn't have broad appeal. Yeah. A lot of people are going to be like, Jack, I'm going to use this time better for something else. And that's okay because again, it's the.

Challenge of a show like yours. It really is the challenge of really making it as bingeable as possible. But even still, even if you only end up with 10% of your listeners that are binge listeners, those are the ones that are recommending. Maybe it is like I've been out there looking for the right social good program to invest in or I've been out there looking for these things. So the ones that are doing that and binge listening are the ones that are recommending you. And that's worthwhile, even if it's only 10% of your audience. Because we don't always have in every single niche area and every single thing that we don't always have, those people who. It's awful to say this today, the sneezers. I almost don't want to say it, but that's what causes something to go viral, right? The sneezers. That's actually what they're called. And we don't always have sneezers for every type of niche, but you might have a few that really make the difference for you.

And I think the underlying theme that everybody can listen to is those folks who are thinking about a cause based podcast, getting the advice, getting the insight, getting the wisdom from folks who have been there before. But again, for me, my mission is to help these podcasters get more recognition. And I will fully admit I probably do more good for them outside of the recording than we do by producing the episode.

Right.

Cause I spend 20, 30, 40 minutes after them saying, you need to do this, you need to fix this. You need to do that. Which will help their show regardless of whether or not we air their episode. Right. So I feel like I'm always accomplishing the mission of the show, even if we don't see a spike in numbers for that particular episode.

Let's talk monetization, because I definitely want to get to that before we end here today. Cause pods is probably not something you're going to monetize, and not every show is. But you do help others monetize. And so I'm sure you have some great advice. What are some of. I'm going to call them the most alternative ways you've seen monetization happen that you think are might be right for some podcasters out there.

Oh, it's so hard to call them alternative at this point because I feel like so many people are tapping into them. What I will say is advertising is obviously the most popular, and advertising works, right? Every thousand downloads, you get paid a certain rate. And right now, like the average rate for a thousand downloads is $25. So you do a show, an ad for $25 across an audience of a thousand people, you're earning two and a half cents per person that listens. If you do some sort of direct monetization model, whether it's a Patreon and you're asking for donations, or it's a premium and you're restricting access to your show only to people who pay for it, or you're creating some sort of membership or club where that access gets you additional things beyond the show. You are getting whatever you charge them that month or that week or whatever per person. So if you're charging $5 to a month for a person to join your group to pay you, that is a whole heck of a lot more that you're getting per person than two and a half cents. And the other thing is there's lots and lots of ways to deliver value, to deliver premium benefits that don't cost you anything. One of my clients, one of the first things he did, he set up a Patreon and he said $2 a month. That's it. For $2 a month. I will mention your name at the end of my show as a supporter, and I'm going to email you ahead of time who the guest is so you can submit questions And I'll read those to the guest. Nothing there cost him a dime. But it became this cachet in his niche for people to pay him $2 a month. Because now they get to say, yeah, you heard me on that show. Or even better, I got to ask this person a question through that host, cost them nothing to start getting money directly into his pocket. And truthfully, when you talk about donations versus premium models versus membership benefits, they are all the same stupid thing. And it's just a matter of how you brand it. If I am asking you for $20 a month, doesn't matter if I'm asking you to do it as a donation or if I'm charging it to you for access, it's the same exact thing. The difference is if you're a fortune 500 company, don't come to me with your heads out going, please support us, sir. We need the money. Not going to happen. And if you're a nonprofit, don't tell me. Our content is highly exclusive. You have to pay $20 for it. When I know you're doing this without a mic, without anything, Right? Like you are a nonprofit, ask for a donation. That's what people want to do. They want to support. So all of those models with all their tricks, all the things that they can offer, they all work the same way. You just have to make sure that you are branding it correctly for your audience and that's what's going to help make it stick. But there's a million ways to offer value for direct monetization, and a lot of them don't have to cost you anything. And you can get started right away. And once you get one or two people doing it, like momentum build.

Do you have any cause potters who do because they already have donors and sponsors, do they do that model with their audience? So if I've got already a sponsor who might be sponsoring my organization, say, hey, you can get sponsorship on the podcast as well if you pay for my production costs per episode.

We've had a handful of people who did that and then we've suggested it to dozens of others. Right? Go talk to this 501c3 that we're promoting on the show for you today and say, hey, even if it's not monetary, hey, we'll tell our audience about your cause and to donate, can you just put a mention of us on your newsletter? We've got an audience of 10,000 people.

Listening, so if there's alignment, it's really worth it.

And then, yeah, yeah, there's some, certainly there are some folks who they've got a Patreon, Right. They're asking for a few dollars. Maybe they're offering ad free content. Maybe they're offering an extra episode. Maybe they're creating a group where you can do an AMA with that audience. Right. Spend an hour with Matthew as a cause Potter for $5 a month.

Ask me anything. I love it.

My time costs a heck of a lot more to other people, but you can get it for $5. So there are ways to do this again that don't cost you anything. And Right. If I get one person that's $5 a month, it is going to take me months to get the thousand listeners to get the $25 per episode. It's a better way to get started.

Yeah, I so agree. You've been giving advice and for too long, probably helping support the podcasting community. I'm sure you feel like a broken record on that, but what is one thing you wish podcasters asked you before they got started?

Ask me. Wow. I asked them a lot of different questions before they get started, but usually the question that I want them to ask me is, what am I going to get from this? Because so many people have been sold this bill of goods that podcasting is this automatic panacea to riches, to wealth, to absolute success. And they just go and they just copy the model of the people who've done it beforehand. And then they're like, why isn't this working? My sense about podcasting is just a delivery vehicle.

So if you know what you want. So if they ask that question, right, if you know what you want, I can make it work for you.

That, or I'm much more inclined to work with someone who says, I have this passion about X. Does the podcast make sense to get it out there? Because maybe it doesn't. Maybe you should be writing, maybe you should be doing video. Maybe you should just be going on a public speaking circuit. We can make most things work as a podcast, don't get me wrong. But if you come to me and saying, I really want to do a podcast, I just don't know about what, you have no chance. But if you are out there saying, I am bursting with passion to talk about X, will a podcast help me? Yeah. Because again, podcasts are not special. We have been talking to each other. We have been broadcasting conversations. We've been sharing conversation for eons. Right. All we've done now is slip it into an RSS feed to make it just a little bit easier for people to access. But at some point that technology is going to change, but the fact that we are having a conversation, it's a human experience and that will never change. So don't focus on I need a podcast, focus on I need to accomplish X or I need to share Y and then figure out how you can shape this message to work for you and how to shape that delivery to work for you.

And that ties right back to the other advice you gave us earlier, which is really if you're making great content, right? So if you're already passionate about it, you're going to make great content, people are going to share it. You're not going to have a problem growing your listener base.

I'm nothing if but consistent.

I love it. Matthew, thank you so much for coming on the show. Cause pods, all of the great things that you do at the podcast consultant towncast Studios, everything to connect up with you will be in the blog post for this episode at the Binge Factor and I'm so glad we connected back up here and we are able to bring you out to our Binge Factor audience.

It has been such a pleasure. Thank you for having me on.

So I hope you heard all the synergy that was going on and the like mindshare and all the things going on between Matthew and I. This is why my show is really useful to my business and I want you to be clear on that. The majority of what I'm doing here on the air is for you. I'm bringing you shows that I'm truly interested and truly curious about. But because I'm at a certain level in my podcasting career and my business of podcasting, when I bring you somebody on, I'm as interested in them and creating relationship with them and building up with them and doing future things with them. And so I can see we're going to have a great relationship moving forward. Matthew and I are going to have some more talks in the near future. We're going to be able to and I already even because I'm recording this a little bit after we recorded our interview, but I already did share shows with him that I think would be highly valuable to him and it's a give back from all of the people who've been on the Binge Factor before or came into my network and got me aware of their show. It allows me to make those cross references back and forth and that's what Matthew and I are going to do together. But most often I'm so excited by towncast Studios. I think that's going to be a great model moving forward and out of the pandemic. I think there are a lot of podcasters coming into the world that really need that on air support. They need it as the recording. I also really believe that when you're going to go into a studio, it's a way to hold yourself accountable, show up, make sure you do it. So I think this is really the right timing for Matthew to shift his whole business into that model, and I really look forward to seeing how towncast Studios does. So if you'd like to connect with all of the ways to meet up with Matthew passey, check out cause pods. Then you're going to want to go to thebingefactor.com, check out the blog post for this episode and really come back because there's going to be more great podcasters that Matthew is going to share with me on this show and I would love for you to share this show with other podcasters. So thanks everyone for listening. I'm Tracy Hazard on the Binge Factor.

You've been listening to the Binge Factor Podcast. For more information on podcasting and video casting success tips and tactics, please go to thebingefactor.com and be sure to listen to our other show for podcasters called Feed you'd Brand. If you'd like to be interviewed on this show as well as featured in Tracy's column, please go to thebingefactor.com guest and apply.