Elevate Your Podcast Advertising: Ditch One-Size-Fits-All CTAs With Dynamic Optimization

Want your podcast and videocast to be seen, heard, found, and rewarded in this noisy digital world, you are not alone. Join the nonprofit community at Podcasters United and podcast industry experts Tom Hazard and Tracy Hazard as they debunk all that outdated and bad advice you've been getting from the podcast gurus and find out what actually works. Today, get ready to finish Feed your brand with smart cut tactics proven to cast your original voice to the world.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Feed you'd brand. I'm Tracy Hazzard, and along with my co host and partner, Tom Hazzard, we are going to talk about calls to action today. Specifically the agonizing process of crafting the perfect call to action. Because we want you to elevate your podcast advertising. And forget those one size fits all calls to action. Those CTAs that just aren't working or just are like everybody else's.

Why I geek out on this, Tracy, and I love it. I love this topic, and I often will review audio, let's call them ads or promotions, okay. That they're putting in their podcasts and can't tell you how many times I hear things or I'm just like, oh boy, that could be so much better if we just adjusted a couple things. And fortunately, most people we work with are coachable and willing to listen to suggestions to make improvements. And I think with one, I'm on like the third round of the ads they're recording. And the biggest problem I see with ads or calls to action that you put within your own episodes is they're too long, these things. I think you want to make a point, be short and sweet. But there's also some new opportunities, some more new modern technology that makes it so that you can really increase conversion, especially when it's in a podcast versus other venues.

Before we get to that, Tom, okay, I want to mention this. I want to clarify what a call to action is. A call to action is not a link. A link is a part of a call to action, perhaps, but a call to action is not a link. A call to action is an action. It's got a verb in it. Do this right, like, think of it like that. And that's where we really fall apart. Everybody's concentrating on the link part of it and not concentrating on what you're asking them to do. And so a lot of times it's this big, lengthy, convoluted request we're making instead of a this is the take action.

I think that's a great point, Tracy. I mean, I think Even starting out and I'm talking and there are many different ways to do a call to action, right? It could be something you just speak organically as you're recording your podcast and it lives in it forever. I don't really recommend doing that because if that thing ages out of relevance, that's a pain in the neck to edit out. I usually like to make it something that's inserted through software like we have in our system Apologize. And there are other platforms that have a system like that too where you can don't have to re edit anything to add or remove your promotions. Calls to act with calls to action. So understanding that, I think it's really important to make it very clear, short and sweet. Hey everyone, thanks for listening to the show. I want to make sure you all are aware of something I have for you. Go here and do this. You want to be very, very clear.

And try to keep it to one thing. Don't, don't go here, do this. Like those are two things. But so you want to say do this, join us right here, join us here. Or join us by clicking the link, right. Like they're tied together with a action and a place.

And the more complicated that is, the less likely you're going to convert people. I hear people speaking these very long URLs and I'm like, oh my goodness, get a bitly. Get a link shortener, do something. Keep it simple. Because I mean, I'm listening to podcasts when I'm driving, right. Or I'm exercising and I can't write something down.

I love 301 redirects.

Yeah.

And if you don't know what one is, then you are not doing a good job of your calls to action. I'm just going to tell you that right now. You need to get intimate with a 301 redirect. It isn't sometimes called a forwarding URL. Right. 301 redirect is in your website behind the Scenes where we do poditize.com forward/, go forward slash, join forward slash whatever it is, gift.

Right? And if you're using your own URL that your listeners already know, that makes it much easier. Just go to our website. Forward slash, gift, whatever. I mean they're probably going to know. Repository sale comfort says this podcasters united.org forward/that if it's the same URL you're always replaced repeating because you're reinforcing it, burning it in your listener's brain. Great, you can use that. You don't have to Use a different URL. But Forge does something simple. Now, Tracy, not every website has such a simple way to create those forwarding URLs in the world of WordPress, which we recommend. And if you've ever listened to this podcast, you know that's the primary website platform we recommend for a number of reasons and I'm not going to beat that into the ground again. But there is a plugin, simple plugin called Redirection that ends up in the tools menu of your WordPress website where I create forwarding URLs all the time. I do a webinar every week and I have, even though it's a different registration link every week, I keep my emails simple for that. They call to action in it. The link never changes. It's always forward, slash, register. Right?

Right. So we have a tip in the Podcasters United Tip library. So all you got to do is go to the tip section and we have a tips section on creating a forwarding URL. And I got a step by step and I show you how to use redirection. So it's super simple.

It is super simple. And another thing just to let you know, we have one customer who has so many episodes and he's really a connector. He connects verbally with people. He's at physical events all the time and he'll talk to people about his podcast and they'll say, oh, I'd love to listen to that episode. Well, he created forwarding URLs for every episode of his podcast. That's his website URL, forward slash the guest first name dash the guest last name. So he's literally got 150 of these episodes with those 14 URLs instead of the long one to the landing page for each episode. He knows because he texts people all the time. He'll just text them, oh my website.com forward/first name-last name of the guest. And he knows then he'll, somebody he's giving to will always get to the right episode. So that's another way you could use them.

Yeah, absolutely. So calls to action, though, let's really talk about them. We did a whole podcast episode on compelling calls to action. Like trying to get people intrigued, curious, shortened to the point. So we've covered like that side of it, this is the flip side of it, how to get them to take the action and then what happens when they do? And this is the number one thing I want everyone to remember that you are not your ideal client. You are not your ideal click through. You are not the person, you're the person they need and want. That's why they're going to click through it. So if your call to action appeals to you, it might not be working. This is what we have to test out. And so crafting the perfect call to action can sometimes mean we have to experiment. And the more flexibly we can experiment, the better off we are.

So that would be changing language, changing action words. There are lots of things. And you can split test, too. I mean, if you can dynamically put in different audio ads in your episodes, you can try two, three different ones. And if you send each to a through a different forwarding URL, that redirection program will show you how many people click through each one. It counts every time somebody hits that URL and it sends them wherever they're going to go, it counts them. So it's really easy to tell which one's working the best, right?

Absolutely. So, yeah, having a way in which you can play with the messaging, test things out, try different calls to action. And then this is why Tom and I invented the insertion of the call to action into the description side of things so that you could not worry about that piece of it. I don't ever want to worry about the link at all. So you just say, go to the description and click the link. Right. Like, it's just simple.

That's a game changer. And we're seeing such an increased conversion to call to action already from the customers on our platform that are using it because there's no more interpretation of the URL having to remember what it is. Did I spell it right? Do they? I mean, I have some customers that unrelate. Well, unfortunately, I guess is the best way to say it. Have URLs that are not the most intuitive when you hear it, to what the spelling is. And that's really unfortunate. But you can eliminate that because. And this is different from, I want to say, from a call to action in a podcast audio episode, though, as compared to even a YouTube video, because you can't change those so easily.

Well, you can, but you have to manually go in and change them. And so, but I want to align this. This is the change that is happening because of TikTok, because of YouTube. And if you hear what's going on really well, they're just saying, hey, click the link. And they're pointing to the top corner of their video or they're pointing down to where the description is in their TikTok on, go to the hashtag, whatever it is. That you're. They're doing, they're pointing to these things and they're not saying it on their videos anymore. They're not taking the time for it, they're not doing it this way. The only thing to do is to get the action you want them to take across. So now it's not even an action and a location, because they're already in the location.

But isn't it true within YouTube, Tracy, not everybody who starts a brand new YouTube channel has the capability to do some of those things. You have to achieve a certain threshold.

Yeah, but the threshold is pretty low. You got to have 100 subscribers. It's not too hard to get to. And I'm not a big person who says you should pay for subscribers or do anything like that. But if it releases something like this, go and do it just to get over that threshold. To get over that threshold. Because once info cards and end cards and all those other things are released to you, which we've talked about on the show before, they're just so powerful in making a difference. It's worth that small amount of money. And so for 50 bucks or less, you can get up to that threshold, but you can do it. A hundred people in your community just say, hey, do me a favor, can you please subscribe so I can do this?

Most of us who are podcasters probably have more than a hundred people we're connected with on LinkedIn and listening to our podcasts and other things. It's probably, you need to make the ask, but it's probably not that hard to get past that threshold. But you do need to be cognizant. If you're trying to multipurpose your recordings and you've recorded this for a YouTube video, click here and you're pointing. That's not going to mean much to your podcast audio listener. If it's the same thing you're going to say. And for you podcast listeners, click the link in the description. You got to cover both. Right. Or you're going to record a video.

Different than you would directions or.

Yeah, I mean, but you may need to do a slight variation. And a lot of podcasters do, they don't have identical videos as they do their audios.

And that's exactly.

Well. And if you're using the call to action sort of dynamic advertising, as Tom and I have been proponents of, it's why we developed. Everything that we developed at Potatise was this idea of being able to a B test and to test out these calls to action, to test out what you're saying. And then also now we have it so that you can test out actually the link and the call to action in the description and you could change it out so that it's always relevant and current, because we know how powerful this is when it's right. And this is the part that I. The second part. So the first part that I said was, remember that the person you want to click is not you. Like they're the people who need you, they're not you. So they have different things that compel them. You got to experiment to find out what that is. At the same time, on the other side of that click, you have to create a payoff for clicking, a reward for clicking. And so if you've done some things that we talked about, like on when we talked about creating a compelling call to action, right? If you've done something like intrigue their curiosity, right, Pique their curiosity, or you've created a fear of missing out, or you do some of that and then they go and it's just the same old video sales letter landing page that everybody else has. You just lost them. They're bouncing out of there so fast. And you want to know why your conversion rate isn't going up. That is why. So if you're going to do a really good job of crafting this call to action, you better deliver on the landing page side of things. You better deliver with what you're intriguing them for. If you're getting them to click deliver.

There needs to be a reward, there needs to be a path. Because you're building anticipation, the next step is instantly give them a reward. It makes so much sense. And this doesn't have to be really complex, but just has to be providing something of value for the action they just took.

And then the other thing is that I think you gotta remember about those long video sales letters that come from email is a different animal than something that comes from podcast audio ad, right? I responded to a short and sweet to the point call to action on your audio ad, hopefully 15 seconds or less, right? And then I go to this like convoluted long page with a video in it. And like, you've already lost me in the media type. So you may very well not want to use the exact same landing page for your podcast ads that you use for your email ads that or email solicitations for your video solicitations. You may want to have a variety where maybe the things are there, they're just mixed up on the page and there's different things at the top to capture attention to someone who is an auditory learner. Right? Like that's their preferred mode of operation. You're not appealing to them by giving them what you promised and giving it to them in a mode in which they want to receive it in. So that's another reason why your calls to action may not be working for you.

It is super important to test these things out, to split test, try different things. And you have to sort of create a design of experiment out of it in order to really know what's going to work. Because you may think also, hey, this is working great, but if it's the only one thing you've tried, you don't even know you did something different, it might be even better. You might get even more converting had you done it a different way. So whether you think it's successful or not, there's some trial and error here and analysis that can help you. And I don't think podcasters take advantage of that enough with their podcasts. I mean, you've got a megaphone to reach people, people are listening, people are coming back to every episode.

They want to reward you for giving them great content for free.

So as long as your call to action, your request is reasonable or in alignment with why they're listening to you anyway, they should be converting.

Absolutely. So just a couple last thoughts on this to be thinking about. This design of experiment means that you change one thing at a time, right? A B testing means that you have two variables, two single variables. You're testing against each other and they're aligned. So if it's I'm changing my URL, right? One has one URL and one has the other, right? And that landing page that's on the opposite side of that is what's different, right? And you're tracking that. You must only do one thing at a time, give it enough time to test it out and then change the next thing. If that's still not working, you really have to take it slower than you think because you have to make sure that you're doing the right things. So if you've got something that is working, you'd like to see if it works better, you're going to change the variable that you want the conversion on. So in other words, if you're getting them to click through, but then they're not buying when they get to the landing page, work on that first. Work on that landing page first. Don't change anything else in the process. Fix that when you get that converting at a higher rate, then maybe change the call to action the way you're asking them to, to go to it so that their expectations are more aligned. Then maybe you go the next step and change the messaging altogether.

Now, many of you podcasters may not have your own calls to action. You may be having only third party sponsors or ads on your podcast and you can't control once they click through, whether they buy or not. That's on the vendor, that's on the sponsor, that's on them, because that's their offer. Your only job in that context as a podcaster is to get people to convert, from listening to clicking for that call to action. Right. So going to it. So that's the most important part, I think, within podcasting. But then yes, Tracy, if you are, if it's your own stuff you're trying to get them to do, then there may be other variables to work on besides just getting them to act.

But if you're not seeing conversion on that other side, if you're not seeing, then there's either a lack of relevance to your audience that you need to be aware of because it will have diminishing returns long term. Because if I'm a listener and I click through because you told me to, and then it's junk on the other side of that, that has a negative flack back on you. And so then the next time you ask me to do something, I'm not doing it. And now your ad conversion rates are going down tremendously and you're going to start losing sponsors. So it has an effect. Make sure that if your sponsor is not doing a great job over there and the advertiser is not doing a great job, either pick better advertisers or go ahead and make sure that you're supporting them in making suggestions as to what you think would work better with your audience, take a proactive approach to it because it will have an effect. Don't think this is a passive thing. It is not passive. It has a long term effect on the viability of your sponsorship and advertising working long term.

Good point, Tracy.

Yeah. The last thing I want to leave everyone with, Tom, before we just go, is just to say this side of things is not something you can phone in. It is not something that you should have an assistant do who knows nothing about your business. It's just a virtual assistant who doesn't care about your business. This is someone who needs to intimately know what you're selling, what you're doing, what you're about, and make sure that these things are in Alignment. I mean, there's a reason that, why advertising firms make a lot of money, because they spend a lot of time crafting this and working this. And so if you're at this stage and you're past those early stages of your podcast and you're at this stage where this is where your money's being made, then you cannot phone this in. You must participate in this process yourself. You must decide what those messages are. You must craft this, the technical part of executing it. Right.

You can leave that, help with, you.

Can get help with, you leave that up to us, send us messages. We help our clients all the time with that. You can have an assistant do that. But the crafting of where it's going to go, what it's going to say, how it's going to say it, how you're going to test it out and then analyzing it and tracking it, this is on you. This is where your bread is buttered, this is where the money is made. This is where your audience grows, this is where your community grows. Spend your time and energy here. It's valuable.

I agree. And if any podcaster who has a business and their podcast is in any way in alignment with that business, this is your biggest opportunity really, to use your podcast to, for the benefit of your business, whatever that is. And that's defined a hundred different ways depending on your particular goals and needs. But you have this tool, you have this content you're creating, you have this value you're providing. And if you have things to sell those listeners, those viewers, there are ways to do it that are very genuine, in alignment with why they're listening to you in the first place. And the podcasters that I know who are making the most money are not creating a show that has hundreds of thousands of listeners every month or even more. And they're using third party sponsors or anything and more passive income things. They're selling their own stuff, they're legioning for their own business. They tend to make money faster there and more there than they would otherwise.

Absolutely, yeah. And if you are not using calls to action, like if you, especially if you've hit, I have people who hit a hundred episodes and they've never even put a single call to action in you. Earn the right. Go use it. Let people know about your event, let them know about your new book, let them know that you've got something for them. Reward them for being your subscriber and listener by letting them know that there's a bigger opportunity out there to connect with you. You're not doing that. You're missing out on an audience you've worked hard to build.

Great point, Tracy. Sounds like a good place to wrap this one up. Thanks so much for listening everybody. You can find all the links, everything we talked about today, and some of the resources Tracy mentioned on the blog post@podcasters united.org until next time. We'll see you then. It's been Tom and Tracy on Feed.

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