Formulating Beauty Products with Nadia Fleury

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Hey, product launchers. Welcome back. I have Nadia Flory here, and she's amazing, and she has created a skincare brand. And the reason I invited her on here because I know a lot of you have those beauty aspirations out there. You have aspirations to make amazing brands. Now, your brand, Nadia, is called Dermassance. Did I say that right?

Actually, that is the product name. The brand is Avecance.

Avecance, that's right. How do I know? I was trying to do the voice of your commercial avaissance, and it's Dermassance, and I love it because it has that beautiful foreign sound. And don't we want all of our products to have, like, amazing foreign ingredients that make us all look beautiful and wonderful? But here's the thing. Building a beauty brand is hard, right?

Challenging, I would say, yes.

Challenging.

Yeah.

But you have a background in it, and we get a lot of people who are just like, I love beauty products. I'd love to create my own line. They're beauty influencers or they're, you know, out there, and they've never done it before. So I want to start with where you started, because you already had experience in this marketplace.

Okay. Where I started first, I started with my own needs, so I was looking for something to solve my problem. So. So I remember one day I went to Nordstrom, and she said, what are you looking for? And I said, well, I'm looking for something that would help with my oily skin but would not dry my skin at the same time. And it's funny because she said, well, for this, there's Clinique. And not that I have anything against Clinique, but I looked at one of the products she's showing me, and I said, there's alcohol in there as the third ingredient. And she said. She looked at me blank, like I was talking to. Like, what kind of language was I talking?

Well, how did you even know that? The thing. Right.

Well, I'm a chemist, so that's why I could tell that. Well, okay, I see where you're going with this.

So let's go really back even farther, because I want to go back to what your experience is, because you drew on that. You found this problem, which I find is, like, exactly the way it happens for so many of us.

Right.

We have a problem and we want to solve it. But you had a focus and experience viewpoint that it started from before that. So let's go back a little further.

Well, okay. So further before all that, I started after high school. I went into. I studied in college as a textile dyeing chemist. So I have the chemistry background, but I would put color on textile. That's what I did then. And I worked for Bayer in Canada. I'm originally from Montreal. However, there's a little parallel I want to share here is that there's a reason why I'm working in the lab, and that's because back as a teenager, I started with a lot of acne, and I did not feel that I was good for me. So I actually chose the lab route as it's supposed to be, like, let's say marketing, because I did not think that I would shy away from the public.

You were hiding out in the lab. Literally.

I literally hide in a lab. And of course, you don't know these things till you start diving in and find out why is it that I'm not successful. But that came, like, 15 years later. So I just progressed forward, you know, like school. Like, you're told, go, find a job, get good grades. No, go to school, get good grades, find a job, and then try to be happy for the rest of your life. And so this is what I was following and until I was still struggling with my oily skin. And the problem in my 30s is it shifted. It was no longer, like, acne, but it would be some breakouts, and it would be especially annoying. Like, I would put makeup in the morning, and by the time I arrive at work, it's gone.

I don't know if I can say this, but that's how I felt. I felt like I was a melted candle.

I've been there. I have been there. Nadia, you are talking to a lot of women who feel that way. It's like your makeup just slid off your face.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or the worst is you left it on the first one you hugged.

Oh, yes. Oh, done that, too.

So it was annoying, and people were meaning very well, but they were giving me all sorts of advice. Like, when people don't know, they just tell you all sorts of advice. And so that's when I kind of start questioning the benzoyl peroxide and that they will put in the alcohol, the drying agent, because it's one thing to try to get rid of the Blemish, but it's something else. Having a red patch with that flakes all around the skin. And so I learned later on that oily skin is actually a form of skin sensitivity. But people don't see it that way. They think that, oh, it's oily skin. We're going to strip the heck out of it by putting a lot of alcohol in it. Yeah. So that brings me back to what we're saying to this lady at Nordstrom when she looked at me funny when I said, well, there's alcohol in there. By the way, alcohol is not necessarily a bad thing. It's just that it can be an irritant when your skin is already irritated. Right.

And if it's the third ingredient, that means it's pretty predominant in the product.

Correct. Like, you probably have maybe 2, 3, 5%, depending on the reason as to why it's there. Sometimes it's just a vehicle in the sense that it will just be there. It evaporates quickly. And then it makes you feel like. Because when you have oily skin, you don't want to bother. You want something that just goes in. And sometimes the alcohol has a reason to be there. And I'm talking about SD alcohol. I'm not talking about alcohol, which is something else, which is your emulsifier. So I. There's different kind of alcohol, and let's not assume that one thing is everything.

So I have to ask this now because, you know. So did you know all of that before you started the project of trying to create something, or did you learn this during the process of creating it?

During the process.

So there's a lot to learn, right?

Yes. I left the whole textile environment just to kind of go back a little bit. When I was working in a lab, I finished up as a textile engineer here, America. And then in that time, I was working already on the skin care, because that's when I like, oh, I know something that this lady at Nordstrom did not know. However, I quit my job called Turkey, deciding, oh, I'm going to start the skincare. And that's 2012. And I'm just like, I arrived one day and I told my husband, hey, by the way, I quit my job.

Wow, how brave and scary at the same time.

And so everything else I told you about the alcohol and all the irritant and all that came afterwards. So I did not know any of that. All I did is I wanted the skincare, and I incorporated that company in 2008. Like, at the time, I thought, okay, skincare is A logo.

And so I said, right, it's just a brand.

It's the brand. And then I thought, okay, if it's the brand, then we need a logo. We need a tagline. We need the packaging. I was already doing manufacturing before I even knew what was my messaging, which is the wrong way around, by the way. However, I would not know the messaging till now. So if I had waited till I had the messaging to create the logo and all that, I would not be any further forward.

Because you didn't have an audience right at that time, so you didn't know who you were selling to besides yourself. You didn't know how to make a tagline that would resonate with them, how to do that.

Right. Well, actually, things would come out. My biggest inspiration moment is in the bathroom, by the way I dry my hair, and I had to stop halfway through to go and write something. That's where my tagline at the time, which I'm not really using it now, but it fit the profile. It's where elegance matters. And that was my struggle to look elegant wherever I go. The feeling of knowing that I don't have to go back to the bathroom within five minutes of arriving was really important. And so feeling elegant was really important. So these things mattered. However, there's two sides to it. There's the product and the product benefits side to it. And then there's the empowerment and how actually it can raise. Like, if you had told me five years ago I had an idea, let's do a podcast together, I would be hiding.

You would have been hiding, especially when I told you it was a video cast.

Right? I would not even talk to you.

Well, I'm so glad you've come this far because I'm enjoying it. So let's talk about the path of developing a beauty product, because that's what I think. A lot of people, they get this idea, like, they're in Nordstrom just like you were, and they have this flash that, like, this is what the beauty market needs. And then it's like, how do you go about figuring this out? How do you go about developing that? So what does that path look like?

Do you want to know the path I took or the path that I should have taken?

Let's do the path you took and then tell us the path you should have taken. Let's do it that way.

The path that I took was I had a need. So because I was already from a manufacturing place, so I understood ingredient, and I had access to ingredient suppliers, and they gave me access to a huge database that all the supplier gets into, because that's where they promote their product to people like me. And they had like, their recipe already there. They had their formula already there. Because, you know, by the way, you don't learn to formulate in school. You learn. It's like mentoring. You learn to formulate with mentors. Like if you would go to work for, let's say, l' Oreal or Procter and Gamble, and it's the senior that teaches the young people. However, I had access to this lab. Imagine for a moment that Martha Stewart has access to 20,000 recipes and then she can kind of just look at it and make it her own. Now, I did not know why I needed 0.25% of this particular ingredient, but when you see it in 20 recipes, you say, okay, that's how much I'm going to use on mine.

So you start to compare.

Ah.

Ah, smart.

Yes. It's a bit like in cooking, if you see half a teaspoon of vanilla in all your vanilla cake, then you say, well, I'm not going to put 2 cup of vanilla. I'm going to put just 1 teaspoon. Because that's the norm is doing. You may not know why until you try it, and then you realize it doesn't taste good. So the first thing was understanding how you build a formulation, what it takes. And there's a very.

Try the method of, like creating some of those formulas or trying them first and saying, like, oh, I don't like the quality of this.

Oh, no, I tried. I spent three years just in the lab trying. I.

May have thrown in the trash maybe, I don't know, 20,000 trials before. Wow.

And I was developing as I went along because at first I was like trying to put everything into it. And actually this is really important for the audience who wants to do natural, because I was heading to try to do natural, like the real natural product. And it looked like mud and it smelled terrible. And I'm like, I am not.

And it has a shorter shelf life too, huh?

Yeah. I thought for a moment, do I really want to, like, will people really buy this? Because in the end, when people really go to the store and buy a cream, the first two things they will do is look at the texture and then the next thing they will smell it. I mean, manure is the most natural thing that exists. But if I would put manure in a bottle and say it's absolutely natural and organic, do you want it?

No, no, I don't think so.

Exactly. So the point is I'm making is that if you aiming at just natural, just because everybody's saying it, as a formulator, I need to share one thing that no matter what you put in a jar, it is a chemical. Even is a chemical. And it's a misunderstanding. It's actually a marketing term to use the word natural. And that is the misconception. So if people in your audience wants to go in the natural route, what I would suggest is expand upon because there is so many people who wants to do the same. So what is your next differentiator after being natural?

Well, also I think I remember talking with you once and you shared something with me which I thought was just fascinating was that if it is truly all natural, you also have a higher risk breeding bacteria. So if it's something where, where you stick your finger in it and you don't have things to help prevent bacteria growth and other things, well, where that.

Comes in is the preservative. And the thing is that people in the natural world tend to shy away from preservative as thinking that they are bad. The thing is they take the concept of food like we want to eat a fresh apple, we want to eat something fresh that has come from the garden and we don't want preservative on our food. We eat. We assume, we take the same logic and we put in skincare, except that we expect a bottle that will last six weeks in your bathro or longer sometimes. Yeah, longer sometimes. And sometimes you may have it in a car, sometimes you may fly in a plane with it. So you don't do that for six weeks with an apple. Your apple will not look that great after six weeks. The thing is, we assume the same process with one and another because we don't understand the chemistry further. So the preservative is a tricky situation. You see, the thing is the natural skin care industry has done a big push to sell their product with fear behind it. It created fear. So in creating fear, especially creating fear of chemical, you don't think of anything is wrong with something until someone says, but there is no silicone or there's no sodium lauryl sulfate. And then you start thinking, well, what's wrong with silicone and sodium lauryl sulfate? Then they don't go further with that. They just tell you they don't have it. So my point I'm making is with the preservative, if you have any water based products, you will need a preservative because if you don't have it in there, within weeks. And just remember also that from manufacturing to having it in a box, to having it in a store, to having it in your hands, that's not just six weeks. Your product needs to meet shelf life for over two years. And that's why the preservative is so important in there.

Yeah. See, this is why I wanted you all to hear from Nadia. Because this is a wealth of knowledge of like learning on the job, learning on the spot about these things and sometimes breaking down our preconceived notions. And I find of happens too often with our creators and our inventors out there where they hold the hard and fast line. I'm not having any preservatives, I'm not having any of this. And in the end, you create an unmarketable product because as you said, it's not even going to make it to the shelf before the thing's expired. So you really can't have a viable product at the end of the day. So you have to start thinking about these things. It's like I have a mission. And my most important mission is this benefit that you wanted to create in which you wanted to create elegant, oil free skin.

Right.

And makeup that doesn't slip off, whatever that might be. That's your goal. And in trying to make that goal, having an open mind about what it's going to take to make that happen, because that's the problem you're solving. Not I'm going to make a brand that is totally natural. That's not the end of the day serving into the benefit and the mission that you have that is really going to get you your fans and going to get your brand to have a perception that it's doing what you want it to do.

Correct. And also as a manufacturer, I had a certain amount of consciousness in the sense that so many people will just put something in a bottle just to sell it. However, and often I don't want to just keep talking about the natural skin care because it's not just them, but how often did you get something as a gift you did not like it. And in the first try you did not like it. You throw it away in the garbage. Now I feel as a manufacturer that I have a responsibility that what I'm putting in gets used. So you had to have a purpose beyond just making money. And filling the landfill was not one of them. I mean, sometimes we want to be green, we want have a conscious to the environment, we afraid of plastic and all these things. But the thing is, when we create something just for the Sake of disposable and throwing it away like that is why one of the thing I created my product is I've made it multi purpose. So it's doing more than one thing. Yeah. It can help you with little breakouts, but it can also detox your skin at night. It can also mattify your skin. It does many things. Why? Because while I was formulating it from a consumer's perspective and I put so many antioxidant because that's what protects the skin antioxidants. So I want to create.

Then you have less products that you have to use which mean less in the landfill. So you are helping the environment at the end of the day. Right?

Exactly that. Exactly. So it was the girl in the lab really formulating this. Like I don't have the time to do five things in the morning. And I realized that that's why you create a day moisturizer and a night moisturizer and an eye serum. That's because you can put one or two main ingredients in one of each and then you sold three bottles.

Yeah.

And you know there's a market for that too. It's great too because you know there's thousands of wonderful ingredients. You cannot put them all in one product. And I'm just going to say this, this is important for the people who wants to start out there why you cannot put all the same ingredient, all the good one is because you have to watch your ph. Some ingredient will work between a certain ph range. So depending on what you get. Like the aha product which are ph. Very ph acid. I don't know if I'm getting too technical here.

It's a little technical. I'm not totally like, why is ph bad? That's what's going on in my head right now. So it's maybe for other people as well.

No, it's not. PH is bad. Is you have to know that certain ingredient itself will work optimum at a certain ph. So let's say for example.

So it's an effectiveness.

Yes. So that means that you want to just categorize the good ingredient that will work at this ph and not use the one. So it's not about.

So you can make some ingredients ineffective because they don't work at that Right. Ph level. So you make the main ingredient at the level that you need it to. And then if those other ingredients don't work at that level, they maybe don't need to be in that product. They need to be in their own.

Yes. And that's why sometimes let's say an ICR on will be created versus a moisturizer because they will have different. Also, I can go on. I mean, the viscosity matters, the texture.

How easy is it to put it around my eyes? I know, yeah. Cause you know, Pat, don't rub. So like if.

Is it smooth? Yes. So all these things will have an impact. And that's how you get to decide on which ingredient. And that again, something else for people who wants to manufacture their skin care is to understand that there's a minimum quantity you need to buy. So when you think you can produce 25 bottles, when they want to sell you 25 kilo, you have a problem. Your biggest, your smallest batch for them is like, excuse the expression, but for them it's kind of like a joke. The manufacturing company for them is like, it's nothing. For them it's 5000 unit. Well, count 5000 unit. And if it cost you $10 to produce 5000, that's $50,000 right there of your investment before you even know if anyone can buy it, will buy it or not.

That is a lot of money before you even know if somebo wants to buy it. And that is my number one rule here on product launch hazards, that you do not make something, you do not spend the money until you are sure somehow that someone will plunk down some dollars for it. So you want to know, you can. You either have access to the market, you have conversion, they're interested in what you have to sell. So you've got to do it a totally different way because you can't physically do it with product, because you can't test it if you can't make it.

Well, the option for them, though is you can do different things. You can do a private label where they already have a formula and they just put your name on the bottle. So there's other ways.

So at least you could be selling them something and gaining an audience to talk to and saying, hey, is this improving your skin? And if it is, you know, would you be interested in something that would do more? And here's what it is. So now you have somebody to have a conversation with because they did buy from you. That's actually a great way, Nadia. I love that, but I want to go back. So we were talking about like all the wrong ways. So here you created a website, a brand, a message, bought packaging, and you spent 20,000 versions of formulations trying to come up with the right one. And so what else did you do and what else did you do in those early Days of trying to build this brand.

Well, I did it the wrong way. You know, I did. I did everything.

What would have been the right way? Now that you know, well, what you.

Just said is the right way. Wait till you have the audience before you get to do the production. The thing is, this is really important, and this is it. Kind of walk away a little bit from production. The thing is that although that's a big factor and it's really important, the reason why I created the inventory so quickly, when I felt that my marketing was not there and I didn't have the. The real platform to sustain me, is because I had quit my job overnight, and my husband was not really happy with me staying at home, and there was a lot of pressure on me to succeed.

So you wanted to feel legitimately into business, and having inventory was the push.

Without inventory, you can't sell. And I felt that I rushed things to satisfy the household, and it backfired on all of us. Because only when money is not at home that you realize that money is actually a buffer in your relationship. The money is there. You don't ask question. You live. Everybody's doing their own thing, almost like on autopilot. But when the money is not there, you start realizing who you're living with. And on top of that, a lot.

Of it puts a lot of family stress. I hear this again and again. Nadia, you are very, very right in this. And this is one of the things I want you guys to listen to out there, especially you inventors in the world, and you get really caught up in your thing, and you start to spend money, and you start to build inventory, and you start to believe that people are going to come. And I want you to have lots of passion and belief in what you're making, because you should. But you also really need to be cautious about the money side of things because it puts tremendous stress on your family. And I have seen. Seen many, many inventors lose their families over inventory that's sitting in a garage because they shouldn't have bought it too soon. And it put tremendous stress. I've seen bankruptcies and all kinds of things happen, and I hate to see that because it's stressful, and it makes it very hard for you to focus on building that business that you need. So you need to focus on.

Yes. All that said, though, without the inventory, I would not be where I am today.

Yeah. See, and this is why it's such a. That you're in.

Yeah. The inventory was only there for me to push myself out of My comfort zone, get out of hiding. It was the rite of passage or the friction it takes when a cocoon gets into a butterfly. So it needed that. But if I did not have the inventory in my hand, me asking questions, I would have probably today be at home.

You still wouldn't have the brand going, right?

I would know. And I would probably be at home watching Netflix be miserable in that relationship.

Oh, I'm glad you're not. And you're out here moving on it. So now you're focusing on a lot of marketing. I have seen you do some things. I've seen you do some videos, and they're really fun. Is that video out yet?

Yes. Okay, good.

We'll link to it. You guys, you got to see it. It's funny. It's. It's amusing. And you'll get Nadia's humor because she's definitely got a sense of humor. And so I'll link to that video just so you can see what she's done here. And it has this. I'm going to call it a dollar Shave Club kind of inspiration, but more on the side of us women who will, like, get it and laugh.

So it's funny. You've mentioned this because I told you that what I was doing earlier in October and you kind of like.

I was like, it doesn't make sense. Yeah, but then I saw it and I was like, aha, Now I get it. And it's very you. And it just, yeah, it has a, you know, good sense of humor on it.

Just to say for. This is actually a very good thing to talk about this video. I had the idea in 2015 and I could not put it together. And it's interesting because in 2015, I had more money in my hands than I have now. And the thing is that I created that video. It's like sometimes we use money as an excuse for not doing certain things. So I had more money back then than now. However, I had more guts now. Like, self investment paid off because when I created this video, I was ready. But I practiced from May to July, I practiced in front of my camera. I mean, it takes guts to just do a video.

Put yourself out there. It does. It does. And especially when you're doing something that that's meant to be funny, which is harder because, you know, it's like the humor, Is it too personal? I get it. But is everybody going to get it? That's why I was nervous about it. But once I. But I also trust your videographer, I have to tell you, because he Might be my son in law and so.

I do trust him and I know he would never let a client go wrong. He would say something to you and that's a gift when they will talk you out of something that you might fall into a trap in.

Well, I knew I was going somewhere with this when I talk about that concept in May and, and I thought, oh, if he laugh, that means that this is a guy who's laughing. So because I have to be mindful that my audience is a younger audience, will they think it's a good joke, Right? It's a parallel for anyone who wants to do anything in this like stepping out and getting your zone of genius. There is no other way than putting yourself out there. I hear so many people say, well, we'll start something and we're going to put a celebrity in front of the product. That's one way to do that. It's more expensive to do it that way. But when you want to create your own brand from scratch, you've got to be able to show up and show there's no other way around it.

You have to be the celebrity, you have to be the influencer because it's your product, it's your brand, it's your passion and you're the best one to talk about it. Founders have to act like founders, right? I mean this is the core of it. And you can't hide in the lab.

No, you can't.

Another thing I want to just mention that is really important is don't get stuck into the product benefit. L' Oreal has a lot of money and all these other big brand has a lot of money to share the product benefit. You need to stand above just to talk about anti aging and wrinkle remover and all this. You've got to stand. What is your bigger why in this world that has a big impact on carrying your brand? Because you cannot compete on price, you cannot compete on just product benefit. So what is your next step? What? Where do you differentiate yourself?

Right. And you know, that is so important. I really think that is, you know, we get a little caught up in like the trendy things that are going on in the beauty industry. And they all have deeper pockets. And so you really do have to stand out. And not just your benefits and your why and, but also in how you, how you talk to your customers. Because it's impersonal to buy from l'. Oreal. It's personal to buy from Clinique, right? I mean maybe you have a relationship with your Nordstrom person. But that's about it, right? You don't have a direct relationship. But if I can have a relationship with you and you're talking to me, wow, that's a big deal. The person who created it is talking to me. You know, that in and of itself is important.

Yes, very much. It's everything. I mean, now I think we need more than any time ever before this kind of warm, fuzzy feeling, nurturing that.

That our clients matter, that our users matter, that we care about them.

Yes, definitely. I mean, you see, for me, the skincare is like an extension. Only this year did I realize that I've just built me and put it in a bottle in the sense that, like, I really put my 100%. Like, when I selected the ingredient, I was really specific as to what I was doing, what I was aiming at understanding how the biology of the skin. And then I realized, like, if you would come to my home and I would cook you a meal, I would not give you half cold plate, you know, just because I don't care that much. I would give you my whole love. And. And, you know, you get the whole thing together. You know, it's the same thing with the skincare. You put everything in it.

I love that. I love that idea. You put love in it. And you know what? I think that that's the case of creation, right? That those of us that, whether it's you're creating a meal or you're creating a beauty product or you're creating anything, that you're putting love into it, you're putting your passion, your interest, and you're sending that out. That has to come back, that has to have a better resonance than those that are in it for the money, those that are in it to just, you know, and hawk what comes next, what's trendy, and let's tap into the trend. I really do believe in people who care, having that come back to you tenfold. So I agree with you, Nadia, and I think that that's why I invited you on this show, because I knew that you would care just as much about the other people who want to be those creators as you would, because you have that heart, as you do about your own products and your own brand and building all of that. So I want to about talk, talk about the biggest hazards. So we talk about that on the show. So what was the biggest thing that went wrong for you?

What.

What was the biggest mistake that you may have made in creating your beauty products and creating their brand? And what. What was that big risk, that kind of blew up a little bit on you because it happens.

Well, when I said that I ordered the inventory too soon. So of course I'm doing everything on a. On a very tight budget. So it's me and my ex husband at the time. We're husband and wife and we're working on this. And I'm actually looking up to him because he's the true chemist, the one that really have experience, but he's on a different industry. He's on the textile industry. And so a lot of it is I rely on him until I realize that I know more than he does. So thing number one is never underestimate what you know think the other one knows more. It's not always the case. Another thing that he was suggesting at the time was to do everything on my own, which takes forever. So we didn't have money to. Because I quit my job. So I didn't have that extra income. So I did a lot of it on my own. Meaning that I spent way too much time behind WordPress and a lot of things like that.

Learning things that you only need to do once and are not going to become a core part of your job in the future. I agree with you. That is not necessarily where to you want want to best spend your time.

Right. Except that the biggest mistake of all is not looking into regulatory affair. Early on to watch what I was doing. When you create a cosmetic, you have to be really careful about the language you're using. You cannot use things like it treats or heal or all these words that are very popular words or inflammation. But you can't use that when it's a cosmetic. And my whole website, two years of prep and copywriting and all that was ready at the same time as the inventory. And only because I had to print the box that I thought, okay, I better be safe. Then I got to this regulatory affair and then she told me that 95% of what I've written is not right.

At least you got to it before you printed your box though.

Yes.

So avoided the biggest problem that I've seen.

Yes. The thing is that it floored me because I did not know then how to market this product because you couldn't.

Say all these things.

It took me all the way till 2018 before I could re figure out how I'm gonna market this. So it really floored me for three years because you'd been planning and working.

And putting it out there and all the messaging and the languaging was oh, that's so hard, Nadia. Oh my goodness.

Well, I think it was part of the master plan that the universe had that, you know, if it had been easy, I would not have to discover who I am and what I stand for. That's why I said that the product, it was a way of. For me to rebirth myself in a different. I would say anyone who has a dream to create something, whatever it is, don't let any of the things we said stop you. Go ahead anyway, because you don't know what you're going to learn through the journey. The journey is just like. It's never a straight line, it's dots, and you never know how the dots will eventually connect. But it's like the World Wide Web now. Everything connects at one point or another, and it's the same with anything.

That is such good advice, Nadia. I really appreciate that. And the thing is, though, is that there are, you know, there are people out there who can guide you and can move you along and help support you along your path of learning to do this, of getting out there. But as you learned, you've got to start reaching out there and get out of the lab and do that. So get out from behind your product, get out from there and start to explore the bigger world, and you'll start to talk to people and find out. I have to have my box checked by a lawyer. I have to have my language checked. I have to have these things. These are. This advice is out there. You just have to start looking for it and start listening and not taking it completely to heart, because there's also some lot of bad advice out there, Right? So you've got to filter it and you've got to really think it through. And that's something that I really appreciate about the way that you work, Nadia, is that you like. You like to sit on something and you like to let it flow over you. And I'm quick with just like, ooh, advice. And I kind of pepper you, and you go, no, I got to sit on this. I got to think about this. And I appreciate that because that shows the sign of, like, is this right for my brand? Is this right for me? That takes a lot of power and passion and a lot of concerted effort to be like that and to be very sure in who you are and who you are going to be moving forward. And that's going to serve you well long term.

Yes. The creating deep roots and understanding what you stand for is really critical because so many people earn a lot of money really fast. I know we're going away from the skincare but take young basketball players who win millions of dollars in their early 20s, and then they finished up at 40, retired from 35, and they don't necessarily have the money because they always thought the money was always going to be there and dispense it. And so my point is that sometimes, like, you know, the Chinese bamboo tree, you know, that, you know, it takes five years and five years to grow, but the first five years is the roots. Do you know that story? Yeah.

And then it grows extremely fast and it. Yes, exactly.

So the point of that is that having something to anchor yourself, because that's what will be your unique selling proposition in the end, what you anchoring yourself. And sometimes against. I go against fear. I have an issue with people who sell or promote fear. And if you've watched, I mean, I have. I stopped watching TV a year and a half ago, and my life is much better because I'm not constantly bombarded with all the fear that they shows in the news. So.

Yeah, but, you know, but you're right. And, you know, there's this complete fear of, you know, whether it's the plastic bottle that your stuff is in or the chemicals that you're putting on, or is it, oh my gosh, it's my mammogram is a problem now. You know, it's like, what is the next. Right? And so, yeah, I. I was just talking to someone last night and they were like, I have skin reactions to pretty much every sunscreen out there, but I'm afraid to go out in the sun now because I burn. And so that's not me. Obviously, I have my olive skin and I don't have a problem with that. And I said, but you know what, that's funny because I have sensitivity to sunscreen and I don't like to use it. And luckily I don't have to because I have the darker skin already. So I'm farther safer than most people. But I always worry about my daughters. Am I slathered them up a sunscreen that has so many chemicals, or is the sun gonna do that for them? So, like, which one's worse? And so we ask ourselves these questions as parents, as users of things. But is it fear based that it's coming from, or is it just personal? Like, it just doesn't seem like this is the right thing?

Well, a lot of it is your mindset. So if you are afraid of any sunscreen chemical, you're gonna be afraid of it. I mean, I can spend hours teaching you different things if you set on that mindset. There's nothing I can do about it.

It's gon Exactly.

And that's one thing. Sometimes we don't take the time to ask deeper questions. We assume somebody says I came across something, it's very interesting. They taking propylene glycol and they say you don't want to put antifreeze in your face and it's too totally related statement. And industrial grade is not cosmetic grade and it's not pharmaceutical grade. However, people take things out of proportion. Like if you had a pool look load of propylene glycol and I mean you don't swim in it. You know, it's like sometimes they are what they call MSDs, material safety data sheet that they are there to help the firefighters if the building that contains these huge quantity, you know, would happen to go on fire. They need to know what to expect. So they creating those and also the transportation.

Right.

And then there are some bloggers who grab this information and they're taking it out of proportion, making stories out of it. And it's very really sad because they're not really sharing the truth. They're just taking a little piece of information and extrapolate on that from ignorance more than knowledge. My point here is not to bash those people. My point is. Well, I'm going to share with you if you hear from Nadia. Nadia has taken the time to study the material and I'm only sharing what I know. That is true from a scientist point of view.

Yeah. And see that's where I think that you know, this is where if you're not comfortable, if you are in the development of a beauty product and all those things and you're not comfortable with ingredients and you don't have this knowledge and you do want to do some research on your own, but you also want to get an expert in like that I think is a really important thing to have someone who can advise you and say, oh well this isn't the same ingredient so you shouldn't be afraid of it. It's, you know, this is not an industrial grade, this is a different grade. And here's why you need someone you can ask these questions for. And an expert in that is really critically important. Luckily you had expertise at least in the chemical world already. Even if it wasn't in every single one of these ingredients, you already knew what questions to ask and you know what to look for. That I think set you a lot farther along the path than many of the people that I've talked to all the time. So you know that's really good. But what kind of person, if they want help like that, is there like a consultant? Is there a kind of person who could advise like that? I mean, you have a textile chemistry background, but is there someone in beauty products specifically that has the right kind of background that they should be looking for?

Well, there is some, and actually I took them. There are some every once in a while in California at ucla, they have those skincare classes that they actually teach us the chemistry behind the skincare. And that's where I actually learn. A lot of women who goes there tend to be esthetician, and they want to understand what they're putting on their client's face. However, it's really heavy in chemistry and biology because what's in the bottle is a chemistry, like it's a mix. And what's on your skin, you're dealing on your skin with bacteria and also with your skin. So there's different layers, different reaction. And I'm going to add something else. In the beauty world, on top of mixing the chemical and what's on your face, you actually also have to take into consideration your soul. Because the thoughts you say to yourself matters more than anything, anything else. That's what women looks tired when they beat themselves up and they work 60 hours a week and they don't feel beautiful and they don't love themselves. I swear, this affects someone's face way more than anything else. And that is just as important to take into consideration.

Okay, did you hear that? Because this is why you want to buy product from this woman, right? This is why, when you put yourself and your soul out there, like Nadia is, this is why we want to buy product from her. So the links to her products will be on our site. And I'm going to have her just tell briefly, like, what they really do, because they're pretty fascinating. I love your products. So tell us a little bit about your product.

About my product itself, the Mascence Perfection Cream. What it does, it's a brightening, mattifying primer. And what it does is that it will prevent, especially if you have oily skin. You put that after your moisturizer and it will help your skin, like mattify your skin. It protects your pore as you put makeup and later on during the day, so you have a matte finish. And it actually protects your skin from pollution as well.

That sounds like much needed right now, especially out here in California.

And the idea is that you can take that same product at nighttime, and after you take your makeup, it converts into a leave on Mask. So again, I built that for my ease. I needed something quick and easy. And I thought, what if I. I can never make a mask and wait 20 minutes and rinse it. So I created this mask. So I just put it on and go to bed. And in the next day, when you wash your face in the shower, you can feel it's all nice and soft. So the idea antioxidants. There's five antioxidants in there, all for specific reason, either for reducing redness or helping hydrate your skin or control the excess sebum over time. It has many things for different purposes because I was building that when we have oily skin, you'll also have other issues that comes with oily skin, like little breakouts. And that's what it does. It helps with all that. And you can use it a little bit. Like if you just feel like you just need it on your T zone or you can put it all over your face. It's up to you. You can just use it as needed or all over and you don't need to rinse it. So once you apply it, then you're good to go. You put it on and move on.

I love it. Well. Amazing. Well, Nadia, you started a podcast.

Yes.

So if people want to get some more of your heart and soul, how can they find you?

They can find me on itunes or the podcast episode is called Assertive Radiance. And that they can find me. Every Monday, I'm releasing a new show out there, and I kind of share my journey as I go along. And right now I'm on that journey of sharing. How do I get to financial freedom? That's where I'm heading.

I love it. I love it. Okay, well, we'll make sure that there's show links to that in the notes on productlaunchhazards.com and the blog post for this episode. And I am so happy that you came and shared all of this information with us. Thank you so much.

You're welcome. Thank you for giving me that opportunity.

Product Launchers. As always, I'll be back next time with another great episode. And don't forget to go to productlaunchhazards.com in the episode and you'll find all kind of links and information and connections to Nadia.

Thank you.

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