From Page To Power: The Path Of A Publisher To Business Leadership With Jodi Brandstetter Of Book Smarts Business Podcast

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority Magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazzard shares strategies, tips and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor. Now let's join Tracy as she explores how to rise above all the digital noise with the Binge Factor.

Hey everyone, welcome to the Binge Factor. I'm Tracy Hazzard and I have got.

Jodi Brandstetter today and she is an author influence expert who's got a podcast called Book Smarts Business Podcast and I like the title. It really gets it right. Impactful is like you want to be smart about business book. Her goal is to work with authors.

Early on in the process because then.

She can help them more with the marketing, the influence, writing the right book, all the different things in that process. She believes everyone can be an influencer in their industry by being curious. And we certainly know that here in.

Podcasting that being curious is one of the strengths.

Most of the podcasters that are successful.

That I interview here on the show are, and she's no different.

She helps curious people two ways become an expert in HR and talent through coaching and training and authors to become and gain authority in their industry. She's a bestselling author and bestselling publisher with over 20 years of experience in human resource, talent and business. She's the founder of Lean Effective Talent Strategies, a HR and development firm and she is also a co founder of the Influence Network Media, a hybrid publishing and media company that has helped over a hundred business professionals become Amazon bestseller. She lives outside of Cincinnati, Ohio with her husband and daughter and she has got a really big gift in interviewing. You're going to hear that come across in the show here. She talks about her about why, but you're going to hear it in her show. So don't forget to go to the blog post for this episode so you can connect right up to the Book Smarts Business Podcast and check out the show and hear what I'm hearing as.

To why this show is so great.

And we have so much we can learn here on the Binge Factor from Jodi. So let's go interview with Jodi Brandstetter Book Smart's Business Podcast.

Jodi, so glad to have you on the show and we're going to talk.

With you Book Smarts Business Podcast and.

All things author to influencer that Whole model, it's, I think, so interesting to look at the stage timing of this. And that's what I want to ask you about. I know you wrote a book and then you started your podcast. If I'm not wrong in the order of operation, it is.

So I have been in the HR world for 20 plus years. That's been my bread and butter. And I wrote a book and 2020 loved the experience and thought, how could I help others do that too? And so founded a new company, company number two for me, which was kind of crazy to think about. And when I did that, I was like, how amazing would it be to have a podcast where we can help elevate authors, business authors to be exact, and help their readers get to know them just a little bit better. They get to know the book a little bit better. But then also we can help our clients that we serve with being kind of that first podcast if they haven't been a podcast guest before. And so, yeah, so I started it after the book. And after creating the second business, did.

You find it easier after that and for your authors to have the podcasting in the mix made a little easier.

To promote the book?

Absolutely, yes. I think for a lot of our authors, they're first time authors, they're entrepreneurs that maybe haven't done PR or specific type of marketing that would be focused around podcasts. But we see the power of a podcast for authors and so we just wanted to help them feel more confident and going out there and being a guest and then hopefully kind of tearing that, that band aid off so if they mess up, we edit and we can help them shine.

Well, I think, you know, so many of those, I'm going to call them the author profile shows don't go on too long.

Yours are nice and short.

They're under 20 minutes. They're right really talking at the heart of what the book's about. And I hear very often when you are interviewing, you're not doing the why'd.

You write the book?

Kind of like you're not in these prescriptive it. You're trying to get the authors to converse.

Absolutely, 100%. So being a recruiter by trade, I interview, I've been interviewing since like 2000. So for a while. And so I took my gift of interviewing as a recruiter and brought it over to the podcast and I really wanted to make sure that our authors felt comfortable, but also that we were really having a conversation because it is, it's so annoying to be listening to a podcast. And one all the questions are exactly the same, or it's just question answer, question, answer, question, answer. I feel like as a podcast host, I need to be bringing my voice to the conversation too. And so having more of that conversation versus just question answer kind of helps with that.

I think it really does. But that's so interesting. I. Yeah, I was thinking about you being a kind of a professional interviewer. Right. And what you do is, is that that's exactly the same model as in human resources or when you're interviewing for a job, is that that's exactly what it is when you're exposing someone to your listening audience. It's like a job interview.

Absolutely. And there's a lot of skills that you get by being a recruiter and being an interview specialist. I guess I'm able to absorb a lot of content and be able to talk, kind of do a summary of it, or be able to then go to the next question that I have in more of a conversation versus just going straight to the question. So it's really nice. So if there are any recruiters out there listening, you could be a podcast host and do an excellent job at it.

You have a superpower you didn't even know. I love it.

Yes, 100%.

Oh, that's really great insight and connecting the two. I see now why your show is the way that it is. And I'm going to say why the flow is really efficient too, because you get right to the heart of the matter, which is exactly what you have to do as a recruiter. You don't have a lot of time, you got a lot of candidates to screen through. If you've got some questions, you got to be really pointed about them. And I bet you anything this bothers you just as much as it bothers me. When you start to hear that sort of prepared answer, all you want to do is break them of it. You want to get out of that into the conversation.

You want to move them away from that 100%. I do provide questions that I may ask before the podcast just to help them prepare a little bit, especially for those newbies, giving them something to practice at home with their spouse or with a friend just to get a little bit more comfortable before they get on the podcast. But the one of the things I do is it is a 15 minute podcast. I always ensure I have at least 30 minutes with them because the first 15 minutes I'm really just trying to warm them up, make them feel confident in themselves, make sure they understand the logistics, and then we go into it feeling like we already know each other before because I talked to them for a solid 15 minutes beforehand.

So, yeah, I can hear that. It's almost feels like they're already comfortable with you. So either they, I. I had a feeling that they already knew you, which makes sense if you're interviewing clients.

Yeah, I would say 50% I know and 50% I don't know.

Well, you can't tell the difference.

Thank you. That is a huge compliment. Because it is like, I feel like when I'm listening to a podcast or when I am a podcast host, I want it to feel like we're literally having coffee together and it's just a conversation and that we know each other. And so for you to say that is a huge compliment. Thank you.

Well, yes, it is your binge factor. It's this binge factor that you have kind of like a tight and directed intimacy with your authors. And I think that makes for a better promotional piece for them on the other side. And sometimes we forget about that value to the guest side of them that they need something that's really concise and specific to share out, not something maybe that as long tail as we're doing for our own show purposes.

Absolutely. And I think that since I started as a guest on podcast and then created my podcast, I really do think about my guest and what they're trying to accomplish so that hopefully when it's completed, it's nicely packaged, they're excited to share with their audience, and that it helps elevate them to that author to influencer kind of mindset that we have.

Well, speaking of author to influencer, what.

Are some real, I'm going to say, difficulties that authors have or challenges that authors have trying to create that influence? I mean, I think most of them come in believing, like, I write the book and it's done and I've got influence. But you and I both know it doesn't work like that.

Absolutely not. And I think that's one of the detriments of people who don't know that it's not just writing the book. I loved writing my book, but then I realized, oh, I have to market this book in a way that connects me with my ideal audience. That was a whole, whole job itself. In fact, I feel like that took more time, energy, and effort from me than actually writing my book. And so for an author, one of the things that I experienced was once I got my book out and I published it, I was kind of exhausted. You know, I read it, like, I don't know 10, 20 times to, through the editing process. And then I market. I went for Amazon Bestseller. That was a goal of mine. And so then I was, you know, constantly asking people to buy it for launch day. And then all of a sudden, afterwards, I just wanted to take a vacay, you know, I just wanted to go on vacation from this book. And you can't. You can't go on vacation immediately after.

You'Re like, it's launched. I'm done.

Yes. And you can't. You have to keep pushing through. And that's where planning and having things ready to go is really beneficial for authors to elevate it. So. So being able to think about, well, what are the different talks I might want to present to conferences or to organizations that are around my book while I'm writing? You're already in that creative content piece. Why not jot some ideas down for presentations you can build from there. Or think about making that podcast list while you're still writing so that you can hit the ground running trying to become a guest on podcast instead of waiting till the very end and then saying, oh, now I have to do all this research or hire someone to do this for me. And there is a little bit of a lull, and you just really don't want a lull right after you launch your book. Oh, so true.

Now, how early do you get involved with authors?

At the very beginning for most of them. So we are a hybrid book publisher, so we will help with the whole writing process to designing their cover, to formatting, to publishing it, as well as marketing it. So we work with groups of people who want to write together. So our collective book opportunity. And then we also work with solo authors. And we do have some that just want us to do very specific things like launch their book, market their book, make it an audiobook. It's already been launched, so we can be at the very beginning, to the very end, helping them with whatever they're wanting us to do.

Well, that's so good, because I think when you're catching them at that earlier stage, you can be a little bit more influential and how they capture content for later marketing. A lot of times I get the authors and it's like, way too late. Right. By the time they're like, I'd like to start a podcast, and I'll be like, but you launched your book two months ago, so wow, we got a lot more work to do now, right?

Absolutely. I think when you write at the very beginning of saying yes to being an author, you have to know the goal that you have for that book and as a business author, your goal is not royalties, and it shouldn't be. It should be, I want to move into this new role at my organization, and by being an author, it's going to influence that decision, or I want to increase my clients. I want to start a business. Whatever that goal is, know it up front. And then while you're writing, we're also looking at your marketing strategy. You know, that way the marketing strategy is tied to who you want to read the book and the overarching goal that you want that book to have for you professionally.

So now let's talk a little bit about Amazon. And you've got affiliate links into all of your episodes, which I find not the biggest payoff for a lot of people. It's a little, you know, it's residual income, and you should do it. But is it really big enough? I don't know. But how can an author maybe get.

More of those affiliate links going in places, you know?

Well, I kind of agree with you on affiliate link. On affiliate. We're not making any, like, amazing money off of it. I think, again, like you were talking about, it's residual income. I always talk about. There's a game that's played, and you should be a part of the game. So if that is a game like the affiliate is, then do it. And so for us, we. We did it literally. Because if I'm going to be out talking to authors and sharing their gifts of their books, I would like a little piece as a thank you. Because we don't charge for our podcast. It's a free podcast for our authors. We gift everything to them that we do. So this is just one way for us to kind of monetize our podcast. But I think for authors, one, you definitely want to look at the affiliate program, see if you can be one. Right? It was not that hard.

Well, because you can do that on your own book, like, that's an unknown thing that most people don't realize is that, look, if I go on a podcast that doesn't have an affiliate link.

Program, you can give them yours and.

They'Ll put it in because they don't know the difference. They have no idea. They're just like, oh, that's your book link. Okay, great. And it's got your affiliate built into it.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And you were talking about the game, so I do want you to mention what you mean by the game. You're talking about the game that if you drive traffic into Amazon, you get more on the other side, right?

Correct. Like, one of the biggest games that everyone has, either love it or hate it, is the Amazon best selling strategy. I have people talk to me all the time about how it's not worth it, it's not real, yada, yada, yada. And to me it's a game and I want to be a player in that game so I can also win that game. And so that's the affiliate program. I mean, our life is a game. We are living each day. And if you take every success that you have, like waking up in the morning or making sure my daughter gets out of the house with her hair brushed, I mean, these are all successes that I personally will celebrate. And that is my game, is that I'm going to celebrate every achievement that I have, big and small. And so, yeah, I'm going to be an Amazon bestselling author and publisher because I see the benefit of that game. Visibility, credibility, opportunity are all there. So with an affiliate link, that is a game of getting money without really doing much. So you have a link, you're sending it to people, you're sharing it, you're providing opportunity for them to find a book that they wouldn't have known about without you marketing it. So that to me is a game.

You know, I don't disagree with you. I think that we so underestimate the value of playing the algorithmic game, whether it's on social media or whether it's on Amazon or whether it's in podcasting with the apps. And I talk about this all the time on my other show, feed your brand. But it is, it's an optimization game. And the reality is, is if you want your book to be seen and found and you want people to buy it, you have to play the game of showing up in the search engines or you're just not visible.

Exactly. Yes. Yeah. And that's what I always tell all my authors. Like, if someone else is playing the game, why aren't you?

Yeah, it's the cost of doing business. It's the cost of being an author nowadays.

Absolutely, yes. And there's benefits and it's simplistic most of the time. It doesn't take a lot of time. You know, Amazon gives me this beautiful little bar at the top of my link. I get a little link from it and I'm done. And then I can click and see if anyone uses my link and then they automatically put it in my business account and we literally just save that so that we have some pennies to do stuff with. Because again, it's pennies. It is not exciting. Just like royalties are not exciting.

We wish they were.

I wish they were, yes. But at the same time, like, if I can give my book to someone and they benefit from it and they call me and say, jodi, I need you to help my business do X, Y and Z, and I get a project from them and I'm truly able to help them, that three, four dollars was worth it. So to me, I'd rather gift my book to everyone, make it my business card, than just leave it on Amazon and hope people find it.

Well, I am so glad you are advising your authors this way. And now I would love to hear some of the marketing advice that you give on the social media side as well. So we get a lot of guests.

On the show, especially author guests who do a terrible job of promoting the.

Podcast that they've been a guest on. Do you give them advice? Do you give them direction on what they should do with every guest spot that they receive?

Absolutely. And I mean, there's some key, just like no brainers, that every author should be doing. One is actually highlighting it, right? Sharing it on social media. So if I take the time as a post and I create this beautiful graphic for you to use, use it. That's number one. Use it on social, use it on your website, use it wherever people might connect with you. So you can even put it in your email signature and highlight that for the month, and then next month highlight something different. I don't know if people know this, Tracy, but you can edit your email signature whenever you want. It's shocking. It's amazing that you can do this, but you can, so people do it. You know, like, do you have your book on your email signature? If not, shame on you.

I so agree. We actually have a rule in my company that you have to look at it once a month. Like, we have an alert that we send out in our company because I have 88 employees. So we send out an alert that says, everybody, take a look at your signature. Is it out of date? Or add something new. Add the latest episode in whatever it might be.

Amen. That is amazing. That's brilliant. Because I can tell you that I have seen success for myself in general by adding specific things to my email signature. I added all of the as seen by all the different media that I had. And I can tell you that I got a new quote in my top website that I wanted to be quoted in after I shifted my email signature. And I mean, it was an amazing quote. Tracy. But it wasn't like my best work. So I know there was a correlation with my email signature. So go back to social media, highlighting it. The other piece is definitely putting your thoughts around the podcast. So if you highlight it and people are sharing content, like sharing comments and saying, oh, I really found this part interesting. Write a blog, tag the podcast in the blog, or do a LinkedIn article, or go to medium.com and do an article there. But find a way to continue that conversation, because guess what, the host was interested in the conversation. So I'm going to guess other people were probably going to be interested. So not everyone goes straight to a podcast. So being able to do something in video format or written format, whatever, is always very powerful. But the first step is just sharing it, if you can do that first and then add on. But I think that the thing we talk a lot with our authors is the power of repurposing content and how that can really help save you time. And so that's what we're talking about here, right? Is taking a podcast and expanding the conversation in very easy ways so that you're still talking about that same topic, but directing it in different ways or using different channels, and that's going to boost your engagement on your social media channels.

I think that it's so often, and you talked about this earlier here, that.

If you know your goal, if your.

Goal is to increase authority or enter a new market or do something that is more on a credibility side, and then you're not putting it on your website, you're not sharing it in your newsletter, you're not changing your email signature, you're not doing it to meet the purpose. You're not getting there. You're narrowly thinking of, I was on a spot and I hope I sold.

A few books to the listeners, right?

Like, that's it. And you and I both know that's highly unlikely because they're listeners, not readers. So, I mean, I. Sorry to insult any of my podcast listeners out there, but I know most of you are not readers.

Well, and even if they are, if they can't find your book easily from that podcast, they're not going to buy it anyway. You're asking them to make several steps online. And when I was in recruiting, it was like every time you had to click, it was a 50% drop off, just in general. So each time you're asking them to do that click, they may not do it. And so, however, you can make it easier for them to find you. Find your book, find what you've done.

The better well, and I think that's also really important when we're screening and thinking about who we want a guest on. Some hosts do a much better job of linking in the descriptions and putting out information. And so we just accept guest spots a little indiscriminately and not really thinking about is, are they going to do an effective job of putting that. Because I'm not in control of how it appears in a feed or how it appears in the listing for the podcast. So I always check that. And I know that's kind of a subterfuge thing is like, I'm like, do you do a good job of listing? If you don't, then I'm not going to be on your show. But you know what? We only have so much time in the day.

Absolutely. You have to make good sound decisions on what you do for every moment in your day and in your life. And if it's not helping you with your ultimate goal or you don't see the benefit, don't do it. I remember when I was first looking at being a guest on podcast. I 100% listened to @ least one, and I looked at the reviews. I made decisions based off of that. There was one that I just felt like the sound quality wasn't there and it was hard for me to hear. And I'm like, I don't want to be on that. I had another one who had a very low rating because of just one specific episode. And I listened to it, and I didn't believe in what they were saying. And so I chose not to pitch myself to that podcast because. Yeah. I mean, what if they said yes and then I was. Then you're stuck doing it and you're like, oh, I really didn't want to be on that podcast.

You know.

What? That's so, so.

True.

I. Sound is a big thing for me. And it's not like I can't handle a little bit of echo or something like that. Like, that doesn't totally bother me. Or they don't have the best microphone. That's okay, too, to me. But when there's, like, crackles and, like, annoying pops, you're like.

Oh. Or it sounds like they're on the.

Freeway.

Yeah. They can't have a good listening base because, you know, you can't listen.

To that for a long period of.

Time. Yeah. I mean, it's just like with an audiobook. I mean, I have listened to audiobooks that authors have created themselves, and one power to them. I had a voiceover do mine because my voice is not going in an audiobook. But I wish they would have listened and heard all the background noise and all the. Because it's so hard to like, literally pay attention when you have all those noises in the back. They're not getting what you want. And that's sad. Like, you want. You desperately want anyone who buys your book to. To read it or listen to it and get something out of it. Like, that's a whole goal. That's the biggest goal for any.

Author and the podcast, the same thing. You want em to listen all the way through and not crash out because they can't stand the sound from the.

Beginning.

Right. Downloads are not everything. Play through.

Well. And like you said, it's so different. When you're reading a book, you have a specific tone that you're trying to accomplish. When you're watching a video, there's a different quality that you're looking for. When you're listening to a podcast that's on audio, there's a quality that you're looking for. And so, yeah, you just want to make sure you do the best so that you can reap the rewards for the time it takes. Because it's not easy hosting and editing and getting a podcast out. This is not just like, oh, it's done in a minute. It takes a lot of time, energy and effort to do.

It. Yeah, it does. Well, let's talk a little bit about monetization. And I understand that your model is maybe a little bit more on the authoritative and influence side. So you're probably doing a little bit more of, well, nurturing your client base, which is helping you get referrals and hopefully appealing to somebody else by offering the opportunity of the podcast. So how is monetization happening? And I'm going to say that in terms of return on investment from your time, energy and money spent on.

Podcasting. Absolutely. So we 100% use it to nurture our clients to make sure that they feel confident in their book and marketing it. So that's a big piece of to our podcast. We haven't tried any of the traditional monetization with our podcast. But the other thing that we do is we do offer it to other authors. And when I'm talking to those authors, I'm learning about them and seeing is there anything I can help them with? You're talking about some authors that you've talked to and they haven't started the marketing or they haven't put that energy into creating that podcast. So I'm trying to figure out what. What do they need next? How can I help them? And so we'll actually be able to pitch projects to authors who are on our podcast who either found me or I found them and asked them to be on the.

Show.

Wonderful.

Yeah. So I think also that people.

Underestimate authors, want to get more.

Stages. Like, that's a really common thing I hear from a lot of authors, especially business authors. Obviously, they want to get more stages, and they don't always have the.

Authority, level, and value to command an.

Audience. And I think that's what event planners are looking.

For. They're looking for, can this person command an.

Audience? And doing a podcast is a.

Great way to do that, even if you're only.

Guesting. Absolutely. Every time that you can be in front of a mic and share your story or share your expertise, you are helping event planners see you as the next keynote speaker or as a breakout session individual. I had one of are one of the authors that was on my podcast. He was actually someone who had already published his book and actually helped publish his audio book. So I was able to, you know, move him to a client from an author guest. But he took a piece of our audio from our podcast and added it into his speaker reel, and it was really powerful. And I'm like, yeah, why? This is an amazing idea. And if you're on a podcast, use it. You know, use that audio, use that content to elevate yourself to that speaker or to a workshop host or whatever your ne that goal.

Is. Yeah, absolutely. I think we don't look at all the ways we could repurpose our opportunities and guesting on other people's shows. It's one of the reasons we developed a bunch of tools that we use all the time, because it's highly underutilized and. And it's still content. Even if you didn't develop it.

To begin with, it's still your voice, a hundred percent. Share it, gift it, love it. Like, nurture it. I mean, it's like, it's a baby. Give your baby love. Every time you talk and it's recorded or you're on video, give it love. Make.

Sure. I so agree. That is such good advice, Jodi. I'm so glad you said that. Well, to give you a little love, you are just about as we're recording this to publish. You're very close to publishing a hundred episodes. You probably already recorded them. Do you have plans for your hundredth episode? Because we were talking about celebrating.

Before. Oh, gosh, yeah. I literally celebrate every moment of My life. We are wrapping up our third book series and so I think I'm going to be tying the celebration of the podcast 100, which is just crazy to think I've done hundred.

Podcasts. You have a hit the elite percentage of podcasters. There's like less than 5% ever hit a.

Hundred. I mean, that's just crazy. And just to think, just a couple years ago I was just a sweet little recruiter hiring people for jobs. But yeah, I think we're celebrating. We're hoping to actually have a little bit of a bigger celebration with some of our authors and have some in person time because we started the business during the pandemic and so we've only had a few years to get to hang out with everyone that we've gotten to celebrate. So we're going to do something. It's probably not going to be until September because school's about to start and just. I'm going to be a shameless plug. My daughter, my 8 year old daughter just published her first.

Book. I'm going to go make my daughters jealous because I would love for them to be.

Authors.

It's amazing. Like she wants to be famous. That's her goal in life. Just love her to death. But I need to give that.

Love. So that book's got to be at the launch party, right, you.

Know? Oh, yes. It's going to be in every library in the Cincinnati area. It's going to be at every elementary school in Cincinnati. That is our goal is to get it out there because it has a wonderful.

Message. This will air right around that time. So what's our title.

Here? So it's called go with your heart and it is about making good decisions when you're playing at.

Recess. Ooh, very.

Important. Oh, I love that. Well, we will link for that in the blog post for this episode and in the show notes that are on the app so you can click through and find this brand new book by an eight year old author.

Amazing. Yes. She also wants to be on podcast. So Sabrina, who connected us, has already told me that she would interview my daughter. So she's coming into the world of podcasting at 8 years old. So this is gonna be fun. And I'm just so excited that I was able to put this together for her because I learned something in my life and I was able to give that to her. So I'm just so proud of her and excited for this because she is.

Pumped. Well, you got a lot to celebrate this coming month. I love it and we hope to make sure that this podcast comes out at right, the right time so that all of the celebrations are happening and everyone can join you. So all of you listening out there, be sure to check out Book Smarts Business Podcast. Jodi brandstetter, Amazing job. Thank you so much for bringing your influence into the author world and into the podcasting.

World. Thank you, Tracy. I enjoyed this conversation thoroughly and you are a wonderful podcast host. So thank you so.

Much.

I told you we'd have a.

Lot to learn from Jodi, didn't.

I? But here's one of the things that resonates with me. There is so little, I'm going to say, information out there about the power of podcast guesting for authors and the power of having a podcast for those authors as well. And I think that many, many authors are not ready to have a podcast at the beginning. And that's why programs and systems like Jody's are so important. If they can share how to.

Be better on a podcast, how to.

Be a better guest, get their feet.

Wet, pull that band aid off, as Jodi called it, getting them their first.

Interview, it's going to change the.

Outcome. Because how times have you had.

A guest who's an author on your show who's coached by some professional publicist, all they do are sound bites or say, well, you can get that from my book, right? And it's not a good.

Experience. And what do we do as podcast.

Hosts? We tend to turn away.

Authors. I turn away more authors than.

I turn away more podcast.

Hosts. Right. I turn away authors because of that.

Reason. And so if someone like Jodi is advising them and her podcast is helping them get broken of that and understand the power of podcast guesting and understand the power of podcasting in general, we're going to have a better ecosystem for all of us. But I also love that Jodi was really trying to get across the idea to her clients and to these authors out there that there's more to podcast guesting and more to podcasting than selling books. There's authority build, there's all of these other reasons. And if you start with that purpose in mind, everything in your marketing is going to flow.

Better. Your book publishing is going to go better, your Amazon bestseller campaign is going to go.

Better. All of those things are going to flow because you understand its purpose.

Better. And it reminds me of when.

I worked with a well known shark.

On Shark Tank and he was putting out his, I think it was his fifth book, might have been his fifth.

Book. And he had this list of all these Shows that he was going to go and guest on that was built by a.

Publicist. And he asked me, because we.

Happened to be in the same mastermind group, if I would take a look at it. And I looked down the list, and I had like, 20 shows that.

He was going to be.

On. And I looked at them, and I thought, I don't think he's going to sell a lot of books on these shows. I don't think he's going to connect with the right people on these shows, the people who might become book buyers, parts of his program, followers of his in general. I just felt like these were built for the lists that are podcast influence lists, right? It's the top best in any category or something like that. And they're usually built off Spotify and Apple lists, but I pulled them a different list, and I pulled 10 that I thought would be well matched in terms of listenership form. And so I said, here's the 10 I recommend. You probably want to.

Supplement. Maybe you want to substitute some of these other.

Ones. He decided to go on 30.

Shows. So he took my 10 and added the.

20. But when he got back to me later, what he said was he actually sold more books, got more boost in listenership, got more followers for his.

Podcast, got that out of the 10.

Shows I gave him than the 20 combined. And what that says to me is that when we approach it from a more methodical way, more of an influence model like Jodi's been talking about here today, we have a better chance.

Of having a better outcome when our.

Outcome and our process, our marketing, is matched. And so if we're looking at.

What that's going to be as an.

Author to podcaster, we need to make sure that we're following advice of someone who understands both worlds, just like Jodi Branstadter, and just like following the Book Smarts Business.

Podcast. So if you're an author, podcaster.

And treading in both worlds, you want to get advice from both of.

Us. You want to get podcast advice from someone like me, right, who has been in this podcasting world a really.

Long time and understands it intimately. And you're going to weigh that with the advice in the author world, too. And so you can make a decision about which piece of advice overlap so you can do more with the advice that you're getting. You're going to have a better outcome because of that. So I'm so glad you're listening here to the binge factor, and I can expose you to amazing podcasters like Jodi branstetter, and I can give you advice that treads into both worlds. So thanks for listening. Don't forget to go to the blog post, Connect up with Jodi, Connect up with her podcast, check it out, Find some advice that's useful to you through that process as.

Well. I'm Tracy.

Hazzard. Thank you for listening to the Binge Factor, and I'll be back next time with a great Binge Factor.

Podcaster.

You've been listening to the Binge Factor Podcast. For more information on podcasting and videocasting success tips and tactics, please go to thebingefactor.com and be sure to listen to our other show for podcasters called Feed you'd Brand. If you'd like to be interviewed on this show as well as featured in Tracy's comment column, please go to thebingefactor.com guest and apply.