Gaining Confidence And Getting Comfortable With Being A Podcast Host With Podetize Social Media Strategist & Host Whitney Lauritsen Of This Might Get Uncomfortable Podcast

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazard shares strategies, tips and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors, and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor. Now let's join Tracy as she explores how to rise above all the digital noise with the Binge factor.

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Binge Factor. I'm Tracy Hazzard, and today, well, we're in the midst of International Women's Month, and it would be remiss of me to not point out all the amazing women that I am surrounded by. I have a COO who happens to be my daughter and also an amazing woman putting so many podcasters out into the world, Alexandra. So, so appreciate her. But I realized that our my co founder, Tom, is completely outnumbered in our leadership team. Not really sure how this happened, but we don't have any other guys in our leadership team. We're all women at the top of our company here at Pottiti, and I'm super proud of that. And so I thought today I'd bring one of them forward because she's a podcaster, too. And shouldn't you get to meet someone who's working with our company but who's dealing with all the things you're dealing with as a podcaster? So I've got Whitney Lauritson for you today. She's our social media strategist here, and she's a social media strategist for lots of other companies as well. She's just amazing. Her show is called this Might Get Uncomfortable and she has a tremendous amount of background and experience in social media. She's a podcast host, a social media advisor, and a wellbeing coach and creator who shares lifestyle practices and product recommendations that improve the quality of body, mind, and planet. She explores mental health, mindful living, and sustainability on this Might Get Uncomfortable and advises creative entrepreneurs with digital marketing that amplifies their passion. Whitney is a strong part of us being pushed and prodded into all kinds of social media tests that I wasn't sure we were ready for yet. But we're out there on Clubhouse, we're working on TikTok, we've got our Pinterest going, we've got all of these things singing because Whitney has helped us with the strategies and helped us put in place the tests to make these things work for us. And we're out there really at the forefront, trying out things and seeing what works for podcasters and what can work for you. And Whitney's a part of that. So I wanted to bring you in because her struggles and her successes with her podcast tell you a lot about all the things that she's working on and tells you a lot about how you might be able to achieve success with your show.

Whitney, this is long overdue. We should have done this before now. I don't know why we didn't think of this. It took International Women's Month for us to get together on an interview. We should have done this sooner.

I feel like it's because we talk so frequently, Tracy. It escapes your mind when you're used to being in touch with someone so frequently.

So, so, so true. Yeah, I mean, very usually. I just meeting a podcaster for the first time and we've known each other quite a while now. So, yeah, this might get uncomfortable. It's doing pretty well. I was looking at the stats and I was also just checking out some of your newer episodes. I love that you and Jason have added more of the two of you. Like, I just feel like there's more of it now than there used to be. When did you make that shift?

Well, we've been doing from the beginning, two episodes a week of just the two of us. And then I think. I can't remember when we launched if we had a guest episode in the first week, but I feel like we did.

You added them in at some point. Yeah.

And I remember speaking with you, Tracy. Cause you were such a huge part of the development and just overall direction of the show, which I'm incredibly grateful for. Cause I remember feeling really confused and stalled with what to do in terms of the format. I was just hearing so many different things. There's so many different opinions on podcasting. So to have the guidance from someone like you was immensely helpful. And I remember talking these things over with you at the very beginning. Because I don't know actually if we had fully intended on having guests on our show. Yeah, Originally fairly certain that was your idea or suggestion to us to do it.

Well, yeah, originally you didn't, and then now you sort of got this nice mix going on. And you know, you know, it's just guesting is not for everybody. And I think that you really thought that that was going to be the case for you. But I realized that in. This is a strategy, right, that you needed some guesting to bring more listeners. You just needed a little broadness to it. And so you needed A vehicle to do it in. You know, and in the early days, maybe you interview a few, you know, vendors you mentioned, because you have lots of people who, whose products and stuff you talk about on your show, and you already had that going both in your YouTube and your Instagram. So you already had that from somewhere else. So you right people to tap into. Absolutely. You know, so that, I think, made a difference, but it's not the right thing for everybody. And that's really where I think you're right about the podcasting advice that's out there. Is that my hope from the binge factor here and why I'm having you on today is that you're going to bring your perspective, which is different than the last person I had on and two people before that, because it is different. And there might be some advice that is just right for the. For a podcaster who wants to emulate the model that you're doing. So tell me what you feel has gone really right with your show.

Wow. I mean, I feel really grateful that we have been consistent, my co host and I. I honestly feel like that is the number one thing that we have done right and that has gone right is that we have stuck to it. We are crossing our 200th episode tomorrow as the day of this recording. So on March 17, that'll be our 200th episode. We launched the show, I think, December 13, 2019. So it's been just over a year and a half. I mean, is that right? Just like a year and a couple months, I suppose. And to go to 200 episodes is a pretty big deal when I look at other stuff, it's a very big deal.

I'm very proud of you.

Thank you. And actually, again, Tracy, you were a huge part of the consistency because I remember learning from you when I first met you how often and frequent podcasters fade because they don't set themselves up for consistence with recording their episodes and editing their episodes and releasing them. So really having that schedule has made a world of a difference. And I remember at times thinking, I don't think we're going to pod fade before 100 episodes, but I really wondered what was going to happen between 102, 100.

So I never told you this, but I was worried about you too. And I don't really. I don't mean that from like a negative way. Like, because, look, Whitney and Jason and Whitney especially is the problem is, is that you're such a deep, dedicated researcher that I was concerned that the time commitment, the overwhelm from that would get in the way of your ability to be consistent. And you would be unwilling, which I applaud in your personality, that you would be unwilling to put out something that you just. You wouldn't be able to phone it. You would have, you know, and so that was where I was concerned, that you were biting off a lot by doing couple episodes a week, and that, you know, having a co host is hard enough because you've got scheduling issues. So I was concerned that you. That that might be the case for you. So this is why I'm so proud that you actually made it well past that and into 200, because I knew it would be a great show. I just, you know, that's hard.

It is hard. And listen, as you said, it's not for everyone. Tracy, when I tell people that Jason and I have released three episodes a week for 200 episodes, most people are shocked. Yeah, I mean, I know shows that have been out for years, very consistently, and they go through seasons, which I think is very different. We don't do it seasonally. We just drop three episodes a week every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday that, you know, there's no seasons. Friends of mine who have shows do, like, 15 episodes a season, then they take a break, just like a television show or something. And so they have far less episodes, but they've been doing their podcasts for a lot longer, so that's a big difference. Some shows are once a week. Some shows, as you know, Tracy, just kind of drop whatever they feel like it. There's no consistency. And it's been interesting how we just kind of fell into that rhythm and have stayed really committed to it. So the other thing that's going really right for me is having a co host that I can rely on, and he's really proven to me that he's committed to it. But there have been times, for sure, where I wondered if he was as committed as I was, and we've had conversations, and I've in the back of my head wondered, well, what if he decided he didn't want to do it anymore? Would I continue doing it on my own? What would that be like? And I've seen friends of mine in the podcast world go through that, and it's fascinating to watch, like, what happens when a co host drops out?

Well, you know, I think it's one of the really smart things that you did at the beginning is by setting a tone for the brand of the show, this might get uncomfortable. And not being the Whitney and Jason show, you gave yourself the room and the ability to do that in the future.

And another side of it was that your advice to not put our photos on the COVID art is huge. Because as you're sharing that, I'm thinking of two shows now. One, a friend of mine, very close, she launched with a co host, and they're in the COVID art and I think are still in the COVID art, even though the co host isn't there. And then an acquaintance of mine who's run his show for five or six years, he and his wife were doing their show together, and they actually recently, their marriage didn't split, but their podcast split, and now they each have their own shows. So he carried on with the original show and he had to change his cover art to just be him. And I think it's interesting because it takes a while for people to get used to that big switch, because the COVID art reinforces that.

It does.

Yeah. Not having the branding tied to the two of us, Tracy, you're absolutely right.

You know, it's an interesting dynamic to have co hosts. And because this is International Women's Month, you know, women have trouble finding their voices amongst a community sometimes, you know, at the table. How did you two find that balance between getting your voices, both your voices heard?

Well, we were fortunate in that we were really close friends for many years before we started the show. So we already had a natural rhythm. And I think that's common for a lot of friends that start podcasting is they'll start a show and it's just like you're listening to their conversation. But the other thing that worked to my advantage with Jason, my co host, is that we both had a lot of speaking and on camera experience, which not everybody has when they start a podcast. So we had already developed our voices together and separately, and that just made it easier. Easier for us. However, our voices have certainly shifted over time. And I remember in the beginning stages of our podcast getting feedback, that we were talking over each other, interrupting each other too much. So one big change we've made, Tracy, is to be more focused on what the other person's saying and to kind of take turns more versus overlapping, which doesn't really conversational.

You have an interesting beginning, and that's what I want to point out, especially as. And it's different in the early episodes than it is in the more recent. So I just picked up on some of your more recent that I hadn't listened to yet to see how the shift had happened. And what I noticed was that is that there's a much Longer beginning. Even though, you know you might be talking about something you're really passionate about. And so, you know, your reference Jason, you're even almost talking to him and saying, you know, I want to get your take on this, but first I want you to understand why I'm bringing this forward. And he doesn't say a word. And that's actually really nice and different than a lot of other shows. There's the. I think there's a lot of co hosts out there who would be wanting to go, yeah, okay, at least say something to get their words in. And you guys aren't doing that. And it's a really interesting dynamic. You're like, okay, now when is Jason.

Going to say something? I can't wait for Jason to say something.

And you know what? That's a good thing. It makes us listen through that beginning part. And I think it's a really great, really great pull through.

That's interesting feedback because I've actually been wondering about that, Tracy, so thank you. And, you know, another reason that we did that in kind of the behind the scenes is we use the program zencastr, which we absolutely love. It has been phenomenal. Zencastr actually now featured us on their website.

Awesome.

Which is really neat, mainly because. And something we might get to, Tracey, is we started video castings recently, so they featured us as video casters, meaning, like, we're recording video and audio and we have a YouTube channel, so we publish on multiple platforms. And Zencastr, we noticed through the one downside, and truly the only downside we can think of as zencastr is when you talk over each other, it distorts the audio a little. And Jason and I are committed to high quality audio. And I think that's another thing that sets us apart. I wish more podcasters would do this, but it seems like. And I would love your perspective on this, Tracy. Like, why is it that a lot of shows don't sound great? Is it the microphone? Is it. The software? Is that people don't know how to speak? They haven't developed their voices for us. Jason and I, we wanted really good microphones, which you helped us with, and we wanted to find software that sounded high quality. And through using zencastr, we found if we talked over each other, it would kind of distort the audio experience. You couldn't hear us as clearly.

This now is like keying into my mind. So very early on in your. In your episodes, I was getting feedback from our audio team and they were saying to us, there's a problem with our audio. And you guys were pushing back, saying, this isn't clean. There's something not right about the audio. And I was listening to the raw and listening to the show and going, why is this happening? What is going on? And now that you're. I know you're recording in Zencast or never asked that question, what you were recording in. Now I know we should because that's exactly that distortion that was happening that we were trying to figure out ways to clean up for you, what's happening from that particular thing because we had both your tracks. So to have that distortion happening is a very unusual thing. And what happened was for listeners out there is that sometimes when we overlap in our speech, it's okay because we have separate tracks going on with how you're recording it. So when I'm recording here on Zoom and you won't have that, they'll just. My team will just completely down out the other. But if you have a warble, which is what this kind of sounded like, a little bit of warbling at the end of it usually happens at the end of the sentence, at the end of the last thing that Whitney says as Jason's starting to speak, because you're kind kind of overlapping in your speech. And so it made it so like we had no choice but to truncate the ends of your words in order to remove the warble. And that wasn't good sound either. That made it sound like these staccato kind of cuts that were going on. So very interesting. So we have identified then what the.

Cause of that was and we haven't always used zencastr. That was actually mostly a Covid thing because Jason and I used to record in person, which was nice for some, for a lot of reasons. And we were using GarageBand at the time. But then the downside with that is that we would be in the same room across from each other and we didn't have like the super fancy setup. So sometimes, you know, you might hear an echo or something.

Yeah, you get cross mic issues.

Exactly. So zencastr has made that easier. And another thing that's changed recently, Tracy, is zencastr, within the last few months, as of the time of this recording, released their video features and they've. They've actually, in just the past few.

Weeks, been coming for so long. I'm so glad they're finally out.

It's amazing. I mean, again, I love zencastr so, so much. But there's one other downside to zencastr now is that we've noticed there's a delay. However, there's a benefit to that delay, Tracy, that we now have to pause and wait, and there'll be, like, a couple seconds before the next person speaks. So even if we wanted to overlap, we technically never can because of the delay, which cleans up the audio and has more breaks in between. And this has been helpful for me editing the videos, because while your team edits the audio for us, I edit the video to put on YouTube and I bring it into Final Cut Pro. And now there's always, like, a few second gaps between each of each of us talking, and I can just go in and find the gap and cut it. And it's been working really well.

Wow, that's really a great find and great understanding of how you can use your recording to force better quality for the editing and output in the long run. I love that, Whitney. Well, you know, you kind of jumped into one of the five things that we talk about, so that's really producing like a pro right there. You've got that all down. But let's talk about some of the other ones that we have. Getting great guests. So you decided to take a few guests, and how did you go about vetting them and finding really great ones?

I'm really excited to talk about this, Tracy, because my passion for guests has increased the longer I've been a podcaster. In the beginning, it was all just our friends or close acquaintances, contacts, like you were saying, because Jason and I have worked in the wellness field for a long time. So our very first two guests, we recorded in person with them. They had been friends for many years. We were interested in them, and we just went through a roster. We made a spreadsheet, and we listed all the people that we thought were interesting, all the things that we wanted to talk about, and who might be a good fit for that, and we reached out to them, and that worked really well for a while. But certainly recording in person came with more scheduling obstacles. Right. And time, and it was just a lot. So while it was nice to have that intimacy in person, Tracy, it's actually been so nice to do it all virtual, thanks to Covid. But that allows us to reach other people that we weren't necessarily getting before because we are also bound by the location. So fortunately, Jason and I live in Los Angeles. It's easy for us. We know a lot of people in town, so we just started with all the local people. When we traveled, we would reach out to people in different areas, so that worked well. But Then we hit a point where we weren't able to book guests, and we were starting to panic because one of the things with working with the editing team is we have to submit our episodes in advance. We usually try to submit our guest episodes two weeks in advance to the editing team to give them plenty of time. It's a little bit more involved with a guest. Right. And there is this time where you're like, oh, no, like, we can't secure anybody. We're two weeks out. What do we do? And I ended up joining a podcast membership group and started networking with people I didn't know. And that was a game changer, Tracy, because it forced me to really think about people outside of my network. And now we're at a point where, because that has been developing for. It's probably been at least six months or so that we've been outside of our network now. I'm constantly identifying people that could be good podcasters, and I've developed more courage to ask them to be guests on my show. So now I outreach to people all the time. I just think, oh, that person's really interesting. I'm going to invite them on my show now. Tracy, we are so booked up. We are. We have guests scheduled. It's March right now. We have guests scheduled through the end of June. We have to turn people away. We also have a submission form similar to you do, and we now have more guests than we've even been able to vet yet. So it's. The opposite problem has happened, which I suppose is a good thing.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, good. Well, absolutely. Wonderful. I'm so glad that's turned around for you, you know, increasing listeners. You know, we talked about this. It's like you are used to YouTube and Instagram and getting followers, and there's a whole system for it, and podcasting is not quite like that. How did you find the challenges of increasing listeners, and what have you found that works?

I love this question, too, because now that I'm a podcaster, I'm very passionate about social media for podcasters, as you know. And I love studying tactics. Like, truly, that question, how do I increase listenership? Is the probably the main question that everybody asks. And it's not that simple, as you know, Tracy. First of all, there's no one right answer for everybody. And what works for one podcaster won't necessarily work for another. There are so many factors. You can purchase ads, for example. We have not done that yet. We've had ads from other people on our show, but we have not run our own ads elsewhere that unless maybe someone plugged us for free. We did giveaways. We've done a few of those. I can't say they were super effective. I thought that was going to work better because it worked for a friend. Didn't work quite as well for us either. And we've been constantly experimenting with social media, and I also don't feel like we found our sweet spot with that. I do believe that the two things that are contributing to our listenership right now is SEO. So just anything search related, which again, your team has been extraordinary with, because our titles are optimized, our descriptions are optimized, we have show notes. We are getting SEO from so many different angles and having really great guests. To your point earlier, if they share the episode, that's fantastic. And our top episodes were because somebody came on our show and shared it. But sometimes just having the guest for SEO purposes is great because as you talk about, often when somebody searches for that guest, you might show up. In fact, I think you were talking about this on Clubhouse the other day. I was, yeah. I really loved this point that you made, that sometimes when you have optimized your show really well, you will show up in the search before the podcaster's actual show. Is that true?

That's. It happens all the time to me in particular, but it happens to other people. So if you're really good at optimizing your shows and your episodes and your things, because you have podcast host credibility and then guesting credibility, you'll show up before the. The host show to begin with, especially if they didn't do a good job of titling. And usually that's where it falls apart.

And you know, Tracy, this brings me back to how different it is to take advice from someone like you that has worked with hundreds of podcasters versus the anecdotal evidence I've heard from other podcasters, that's a huge lesson I learned because before I met you, Tracy, I was asking around, trying to, like, that's how you met. It is. How so? Absolutely. It did benefit me in some ways. Right. But like, I just remember hearing so many different strategies, but they worked for that person. And then I would try that strategy and find out it didn't work for me. So really seeing tried and true strategies that have worked for a number of podcasters, I think is incredibly important. And being willing to experiment without being attached to it. Working for you just because it worked for somebody else.

Yeah. You know, this is. That's so great. I'm so Glad you are mentioning that at this point because my next one that I want to go to of our five things is about encouraging engagement and there is no one better than someone who's had great success on social media. Such success, of course, that I hired her as our social media strategist here. So, you know, such success encouraging engagement within your Instagram, within things. And you know, what we've discovered is some of the stuff doesn't work for us, doesn't work for potatoes. What works for Whitney, what works for that this might get uncomfortable or the binge factor not the same. So how have you been able to for your particular podcast for this might get uncomfortable really grow engagement?

It's a great question too, and absolutely humbling as well. I've been consulting on social media since 2009, I think, and I think in the beginning stages I did just believe that if it worked for me, it would work for everybody else. So take everything with a grain of salt. That works for me. The big advantage that Jason Rebel, my co host and I have is that we have been building up our social media for over 10 years each. So we started with a pretty engaged audience. However, we are hearing from new people we've never heard from before. So we do find that some of the engagement is coming more organically. It wasn't already there, or there are people that we're hearing from that we've never heard from before, but maybe have been part of our audience and never commented or emailed or left messages. It's not every day, but it's pretty frequent. And more and more so, Tracy, the more that we've done our show and the more that we speak out about it and encourage our listeners on our show, the more we start to hear from them. And every, every episode of ours saying, we want to hear from you, like genuinely, please contact us through one of three ways. And for us, it's either a direct message on Instagram, which is by far the top way that people reach us right now. Number two is send us an email, which is our secondary way that we hear from people. And number three is to leave a comment on our show notes, which is very rare. We don't get a lot of those, I think, because people are typically listening on their phone and they're used to pulling up Instagram, or they're used to finding an email address. And so we've also discovered that making it really easy and clear for them. Another thing we learned from you, Tracy, that was so helpful is we spell out our website domain and our Social media hand because they're different than the name of our show. Our domain and social media usernames are our brand name, which is called Wellevator. Nobody knows how to spell it until we tell them. So we spell it out every single time, at least once per episode. One usually towards the middle area of the show and once at the end over and over again. And now we're just in that habit. And hopefully that helps people spell it out, but they also know that they can just do a web search for our show and find us. And thanks to having really good descriptions and show notes, it's very easy to find us. You know, you type in, this might get uncomfortable, you instantly find our website. And on our website, we make it easy for them to get in touch so they can engage. So I think the big takeaway is just make it easy, you know.

And the other thing that I think that I want to mention here is something that I think you do really well. And I'm going to tap in before we do the final thing here of our final five things and do our binge factor with you because. Because it's an interesting model to look at, the way that you do your show and the way that we consider your binge factor. So what do you think your binge factor is, Whitney?

Wow. I'm so curious what you're going to say, Tracy, but I would say the fact that we are authentic and we don't really plan, you know, to your point earlier, which I wanted to address, Tracy, is we rarely plan. We plan who our guest is. We ask our guest, you know, what they're interested in talking about, we learn about their bio, but we never plan questions for our guests. In fact, sometimes we stumble at the beginning of the episodes because we're like, gosh, there's so many places we want to start. And we also don't plan our solo episodes. We have a generalized topic. Sometimes that topic is a word, sometimes that topic is a very vague idea, and we just let it flow. It's conversational. So my guess is that our binge factor is that we are really open and honest and real, and we're not afraid to make mistakes or get uncomfortable. That's the name of our show.

So you are right on. So your binge factor, in a way. But I'm going to shift the phrasing, though, for you so you're not authentic, because in today's world, authentic is actually is contrived. And so what I get from this might get uncomfortable and I get from Whitney and Jason is a rawness. And so there's. I want to discuss this topic. I want to discuss this article. I want to discuss this. I have some passionate viewpoint about it. That's the setup of each show that you do. And then it goes into a raw discussion with the mindset that no one has to be right about this, that this is a discussion, a debate opening of your mind. That rawness is beautiful because we don't get that enough. And that's where I really believe your binge factor is hitting into people who can't miss an episode. They're going to come back because they want to hear about the next article you read. The other thing that you say, you don't plan, but you really research. It's not like you're going to get a title of an article. You read that article, you synthesized it, you thought about it before you guys decided to talk about it. There, you know, there's an innate. Obviously, it doesn't feel as work. Much work to you because you and Jason are friends. You've been doing this a long time. You have a great working relationship. So you've got the. All you need is the Cliff Notes version between the two of you, and you're on.

Right.

You know, so that it doesn't feel like it's as much planning, but it is. There's a deepness to the. The depth of research that you've done over time and the stories that you tell and the things that you'll pull into it. But there also is a really beautiful, organic nature to how you mentioned products and things that you do. Like, so I was having to be listening to an episode, and you mentioned about your going offline, which is this week's episode that I listened to. It's your most recent one. And I have to tell you, like, all I kept doing is like, am I getting anxiety just listening to the idea of digitally unplugging? Like, could I do this? And for me, it's probably not as big a problem as I'd have to listen to my children complain that I'm not totally willing to do that. But you mentioned totally, like, not. Not totally turning off your watch because you have your hydrate bottle that you just absolutely love. Which is so funny because I was like, I knew. I gave that to you because I knew you would love it.

Right?

Like, that's the kind of thing. But you just so casually mentioned it in and say, hey, if you want to link to it, it's in my website, right? So that organic ness of how you Mention things has come from deep experience doing it over time. And so it doesn't feel contrived. It doesn't feel like that. It's just like, you truly would recommend these products to anyone you're talking to.

Absolutely. Tracy. I bring up that bottle all the time. I mean, I should be paying you because you're sending all the referral credits to you, because it's like, I'm obsessed with that bottle. I could do a whole episode on the hydrate bottle, thanks to you. And it's really such a brilliant gift, Traci, because I think about you, and I'm so grateful for that and how much one little thing like that can change your life. And to your point, that's been an evolution as we've started to have some more sponsors. I think we've had three official sponsors in terms of, like, ad space, and we've also had a ton of affiliates. So, like, I use an affiliate link to Amazon for the hydrate, for example, because. Why not?

Why not? Well, this is. You're segueing perfectly into, how do you monetize your show? And that's where I thought you would be successful from the beginning, because you already had an understanding of how affiliation works. So I. I don't think a lot of people really understand how small dollar amount it can be and how much work it can be.

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's fascinating. And sometimes, you know, Jason's a little bit more concerned with monetizing it than I am, to be. To be honest. But I think I love podcasting so much. I see so many other benefits beyond the money, Tracy. Like, Truly, it has helped me become a better speaker, and then I can book speaking gigs anytime I want to apply for a speaking gig. I have literally 200 episodes and say, here, go ahead and listen to me speak. That's huge. Now, it naturally pivoted me into a platform like Clubhouse, where I've developed some authority and a following there, and people are, like, curious, how do I feel so confident on Clubhouse? It's because of the podcast. I noticed in my YouTube videos, Tracy. Like, my confidence as a YouTuber really grew through speaking so regularly. So there are a lot of indirect forms of monetization of the podcast, so that's. It's not my top priority to directly monetize it. However, as I mentioned, Jason and I have had some sponsors, and we're very mindful about how often we work with sponsors, which sponsors they are. We've worked on our contracts and our media kits, and we're just like, very intentional about it, because we don't want people to feel like we're always pitching something like some shows do. You know, for me, there are certain shows I listen to where I'll just skip over the ads because I'm like, here we go again. You know? But if it's integrated in, as you're mentioning, that works a lot better. So that's something that we use whether we're sponsored or not, and that's gotten our audience used to it. And the fact that we're mentioning affiliates, and if we have a special discount code or something that ties in, you know, we can just organically integrate that in. And that's a practice, though. So I think the fact that we don't feel pressured to monetize and the fact that we're constantly practicing it in subtle ways throughout every single episode has made it easier. One thing we're experimenting with right now is how to make our ads entertaining. And this is something that I learned from another podcaster named Adam. He has a great show called Podcasting for Business. I believe I was just on it, and I hope I'm getting the title right. He has a great strategy where he has fun with his ads, so much so that his audience looks forward to his ads. And so now we're trying that because I'm fortunate to have a very funny co host. So I gave Jason the task to do something silly, something entertaining, to sing, like, to make a joke, to be outrageous, and we're gonna try it out and see how it works. We just did that a few weeks ago with one of our sponsors. Fingers crossed.

I think that's so, so great that you guys are trying to take that on and do that in an interesting way. It's actually one of my favorite. One of my favorite parts of the movie Private Parts with, you know, you've seen.

Right, Is he does this ad spot that is supposed to be for some, I don't know, toy store or something that just opened, and he talks about being there for a kid. And then he realizes as he's reading the copy, because he's trying to make it interesting, realizes as he's reading the copy that it was just opened, it's had its grand opening last week, and so that can't be true. And instead he just doubles down and goes, yeah, you just caught me. And I was, you know, and. And that, like, personal bringing that sort of. I was trying to, you know, trying to make this fun. And it just, you know, it didn't work. That honesty in the whole Process, I think is going to really work for you too. Like when you're, you're funny and like that, that didn't really work out, you know that that's how that's going to be you and you're going to see that. I think that's, that's going to work for you guys. That's really great. You know, I think that too many podcasters, especially so many that we have that come out of TikTok or, or YouTube or from Instagram World World and transfer that and think that they're going to come into podcasting and expect it to work the exact same way with affiliation. Buy now. Like all these different things that you have and it's a slower burn that's difficult. Like, that's difficult for them to grasp it. So when you can come in with a better patience level and an idea of being more discerning about that process and being, and cultivating that like you and Jason have, I think that's a better recipe for success.

Yeah, I hope so. And you know, we've experimented with being our own sponsors too. You know, we, when we have a course launch or a course promotion, we've experimented with different ways that we can run ads. And that's been interesting because we can track and see the success of it. And it's tough, Tracy. I mean, I would say the conversion rate has not been super high for us, but we're trying to be patient, you know, and we try to figure out our audience and our rhythm with it all.

I think that part of it is that you have a long show. So because you have an hour long show and because you do three a week, that's a lot for people to catch up on. So when you have something that is like, oh, we're running a boot camp or we're running a program that's especially something that's live and not a self generating, consume it on your own pace kind of thing. That makes it harder to have what you would call this like launch timing. Like you could do it out on social, but you can't do it in podcasting because they haven't caught up yet. Now part of it is of course we have our ad mixing system which you use so you can mix it on all the shows. So any show that they are on, they're going to catch that. But it's sort of a, are they ready yet? And there's just a slower burn. Right. There's just a slower warmup with the people that are listening to podcasts.

Absolutely. And I would actually drop into that point. Tracy, we're so grateful we have a newsletter. And that's another thing I would recommend is the newsletter helps us bring people in from all different parts of our website. We have free offers that they can sign up for, and they give us their email address. They're on our mailing list. We've been building that for almost three years now. So longer than our podcast, we've been working on this newsletter list that converts. So now we find that if we get that newsletter list, used to hearing about our podcast, that brings listeners, if we encourage our podcasters to get some of the freebies we offer, they get on our list. And that has been a little bit more effective than running ads on our show thus far.

Really, really good. Well, it wouldn't be International Women's Month if we didn't talk about women's voices. And so I was wondering if you had any podcasters, especially women podcasters, that you'd like to make a shout out to and let us know who you. Who does Whitney listen to?

Well, number one is my friend Allison Melody, who runs the Food Heals podcast. She became a friend of mine while she was developing her show, and it's been such a beautiful thing to watch her journey as a podcaster. And oftentimes I look back and wonder, like, why didn't I start my show back then? Cause I think it was 2015 that she launched, and I wasn't interested at that time. Tracy, it was kind of fascinating looking back without regret and just more being proud of what she has done and accomplished and also recognizing that things that worked for her in 2015 wouldn't necessarily work today in 2020. So it's really interesting to watch, like, her whole approach and how she's worked with guests. And we learn from each other all the time. I've been on her show, I think, more than any other guest that she's had, too, which is a nice honor.

You need to get, like, this special jacket now, I know. Absolutely.

She came out with a book, and it was actually very smart from a podcast standpoint. Her book's called Food Heals, like her show. And she. She had people featured in her book that were on her podcast. And for every feature, she listed out the episodes that her guests had been in. And I think mine was too long to include or it was like the longest section out of any other guest is kind of amusing. But I actually think going back to monetization, that was super smart that she wrote a book, she self published it, she put it on Amazon. She became a bestseller. That book is promoting her podcast, and her podcast is promoting the book as a monetization forum. So Alison is by far the first person I think of to show Shout Out.

Oh, and she's such a. Such a great advisor, too. So she's been and done a masterclass for us here at Pottitles and just her viewpoints on how she uses social media. But you're so right, though. I mean, I started our first show in 2015. It's one of the reasons why we try to start new shows or do revamps or do other things every single year, because it's a whole lot harder in 2021 than it was in 2015 to get your show going and gain an audience. And so we have to remember that these things shift over time and new tactics need to be in place. And. And there is a certain amount of, you know, residual value to having started back then, and you can't go reinvent that. If you're starting today, that's no reason to not, you know, start one, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

So, Whitney, let's talk a little bit about social media. We mentioned Clubhouse multiple times. We've been talking about TikTok amongst ourselves, like. Like, what are some of the things that you are finding working for podcasters out there that you just think this is some cool stuff and maybe people might want to evaluate it and see if it's a right fit for them?

Well, I think you just named them. Clubhouse and TikTok right now are huge. And it's hard to tell, as you and I have discussed offline, Tracy, like, what exactly is going to happen with Clubhouse? It's been around for. I think it's coming up on a year, but it started to get its momentum at the end of 2020, beginning of 2021, and everyone's just on there trying to figure it out. However, because you're using your voice on there, I think it really translates because people want to hear more from you. Perhaps they get used to your voice, they're curious. I haven't been able to attribute specific views to it. It's because they just actually launched, I think, or maybe they're working on launching the links. So now all you can do from Clubhouse is to go click on Instagram and or Twitter. So what people are doing that I think is really smart is on Twitter, they're linking to and pinning their podcast at the top. So when you go to someone's Twitter page, you see their podcast front and center, which I think is really wise. So that takes someone from Clubhouse to Twitter to your podcast. You can do something similar with Instagram. So a lot of people go to Instagram after Clubhouse and you could mention your podcast, make sure it's in your, your top link in your bio. It has grown my Instagram clubhouse. So then it's like, when I think about this funnel, I think, okay, now that they're part of my Instagram community, like, how can I mention my podcast in an authentic way that resonates with them? So I've been experimenting with all sorts of different things. Every week when we have a guest on the show, we do a dedicated post for them. I customize it. I think of like one of my favorite parts of the show or a quote that will resonate. And we also use audiograms and, and you know, we don't get a ton of clickovers, as you know, many shows have discovered. So that's why we actually started using YouTube recently, because podcasters that I've been watching have been raving about YouTube and I, I kind of didn't think that YouTube would work super well with podcasters because not everybody gets that success. So currently I'm experimenting for myself. We're experimenting with potties in the shows, Tracy, to see can we really capture people's interest. Does a full length episode work best? Does the clips, the short videos work best? I think TikTok is a huge part of this conversation too, because what's happened with TikTok, it's, it's really shown us how to create high quality content in short amounts of time. So right now, if you can make a video around 30 seconds, you can post that on TikTok, on YouTube, shorts on Instagram, Reels on Pinterest, on LinkedIn, on Facebook. Pretty much every single platform, even Twitter, they all have that short form video now. So creating one piece of content related to or from your podcast, if you're recording a video, this might become one of them. Tracy. That's right, you can record video. As you know, we were talking about video casting. Record it while you're doing the audio on Zoom or Zencast or whatever tool you want to use. Take that and find a 30 second clip from there. That's high value that piques people's interest. Put that on one or all of those platforms, distribute it around and start to experiment which of those platforms is getting traction for you right now? I think the phrase right now is incredibly important, Tracy, because the platforms change right now.

I just heard of some changes. I think right now we just all got emails about Facebook changing watch parties. So like, you know, every day there's something different.

Oh yeah. And it's overwhelming. That's the number one thing I hear, Tracy. And that's a huge pain point for podcasters. They are overwhelmed. They don't want to do it all. They need help. But some podcasters don't have budget, so it's challenging. The number one thing I recommend is to take those 30 second video clips. So if you're overwhelmed, just focus, create video, put it up on YouTube, doesn't have to be perfectly edited and just find that one 30 second clip and then take that clip and choose at least one of those social media platforms to put it on and experiment with. Right now in March 2020, Instagram Reels and IGTV and stories, they're all working pretty well. They're pushing that. TikTok is working really well for a lot of people. But the other downside is it takes some time to find the sweet spot about what content and format work. So you have to be open to experimenting. And I think that's where people get burnt out.

They do, they get burnt out on the experiment side. And that's actually where we utilize Whitney's brilliance for our company here, is that we use her to really start to champion these tests out. Let's see, how difficult is this? How easily can we create the assets we need? How can we create a posting schedule? Is there a return on this? We're trying these experiments and we really sort of have a different focus every month. We sort of have a focus of, okay, we're going to be in creation process, we're going to be in execution process on another one. So that we're trying a couple of things at any given time. But that's not the easiest thing to handle when you're doing it all yourself.

Oh, yeah. And that's why I would say you have to take it easy on yourself. I think the number one focus should be creating a great podcast because as I said, a lot of our listenership comes from consistency and from SEO and from guests. Right? So it's like if I had to rank them, I might say guest first, then SEO. It's hard to say because it's really hard to measure these things. One thing I recommend is having some sort of tracking link. In fact, Tracy, I've given tracking links to a few of my guests to see how much traffic they're bringing in. And sometimes they're bringing in a ton of traffic. And sometimes guests with huge following on social media don't Bring a lot of traffic. That's an another mistake I'm seeing podcasters make is they think by bringing in and you've said this to Tracy, so I'm going to reiterate advice that you've given is that a guest with a big following does not guarantee that's going to get high viewership. A guest with an engaged audience who's willing to share, those people will bring in, but they have to be willing to share consistently. One of actually my top two episodes right now, Tracy, are from a friend of mine who happened to do really well on TikTok after he came on my show. He came on my show before he hit it big. So we had this genuine connection. He hit it big on TikTok. He shared the link to our podcast in his link in bio list. And he drove so much traffic to my podcast every day for months because he was willing to do that. I've had big podcasters on my show who have never shared it or who have kind of done like light shares, like one tweet or they reshared the Instagram story. It did nothing for us. We might get some SEO traffic because if somebody searches for them, they'll find our show, but they're sharing it didn't actually help us that much. So don't be deceived by the numbers when it comes to bringing on guests.

You know, I think that's such a good point that you were making. So SEO guests and what was the third one and that you were saying? So you said you had sort of three things that you attributed. Right.

Okay.

Now I was like I missed the third thing because we got maybe I failed third one.

Right, right. Okay, let's see. Oh for. In terms of getting guests. Yes, SEO having guests and experimenting on social media.

Experimenting on social media. Of course. That's what we were just talking about. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, I would say that it the flip of whether or not guests go above SEO, as you were mentioning, if your goal is to sell more courses and more things and get in your case, get more people on your newsletter because you know that converts, then your SEO should be more important and that you should put the emphasis there on what kind of people, what kind of guests are you seeing better SEO from just by name associations or topics associations, then that's where I would put my emphasis and work in the future because that's going to serve you well in the long run if that's actually where the true conversion happens.

Happens.

But if you're a true conversion happens by listeners. They listen first, then they become fans, then they go to our website, then they do more. Great. If that's the path, you know that they take. But if you don't know the path, then you're going to need to do both at the same time, just like you're doing, because you don't always know.

Exactly. And the other, maybe one of the biggest lessons, Tracy, which I also admire you for, is that it's a long game. It's a long game with podcasting and it's a long game with social media.

It's a really long game with social media, let me tell you. It is.

And I think that's something that's not spoken out enough. So I really want to emphasize this, is there are plenty of cases of people who spring up and they go viral really quickly. They get lots of followers. That does happen sometimes. We've seen it happen on Clubhouse. I see it happen on TikTok, but it's not guaranteed. And. And if that doesn't happen to you, a lot of people will give up and they'll think that social doesn't work. They'll get very defeated. But I found over time, and I've been on social media for over 10 years, is the consistency, just like consistency with podcasting, really pays off because people trust you. They know that you're not just in it to get rich quick. You know, you're in it because you really care. You're dedicated and connecting with people one by one, as I've seen you doing on Clubhouse. Tracy, that's so important. Clubhouse, for example, a lot of people want to be in. Have big rooms. They want hundreds, thousands of people in their rooms. But if your goal is to really connect and convert, then you could just have a few people in your clubhouse rooms or a few people watching on TikTok, or a few people listening on the podcast, because those people might become clients, they might buy your products and. Or they might review your show, promote your show, recommend their show to friends. You never quite know the power that just a few people can have on you. So don't get caught up in the big numbers.

Oh, Whitney, I want to end there because that was such beautiful advice. And I really so appreciate all the vision that you've brought to our company and to your podcast and the podcasting community in general. So really appreciate you, Whitney.

I appreciate you, Tracy, and I think it's a good time to shout you out as somebody I admire in podcasting, because you've been called the queen of podcasting for a Reason, I really feel incredibly fortunate that I got to know you and that now you know I'm part of your team. You're part of my team. It is really one of the best things that has happened with me for my podcast, if not the best thing, because we probably would have to your point earlier, it would have been so much work without a team. And this is actually the tip that I give everybody. So I'll share one final tip. If I haven't made this clear already, having a team makes a world of a difference with podcasting and social media. And I am so grateful that you and I are on each other's teams, Tracy. Thank you.

Oh, me too. Whitney Lauritson. This might get uncomfortable. Check it out. You know, one of the things and one of the reasons I wanted to have Whitney on so badly is we have because she's so honest, she's so straightforward in what she uses, what she's trying, and she's passionate and excited about it. You know, she's out there doing research on all kinds of things, and she's methodical about the stuff that she tries, thinking about the why she's doing something and then looking at it and going, is this the best way to do it? Can I learn something from the way that I manage my Instagram? And can I try that here? Can I learn from a success factor that I heard from this podcaster, but apply it in my way? So she's great at making this customization and taking advice and filtering it through her process. That's why she has so many great gems to share, and that's why so many people look to her for advice on how to be successful as a podcast host. But, you know, I really want to make sure that you are checking out her show. You know, it is not narrowly health and wealth. It is broad. There are lots of things on her show that they discuss that really are just things that we really want to talk about and deal with today. Her latest episode that I just absolutely loved was on, you know, turning off, taking the sort of digital day off and really applying it. And she's so raw with how she talks about what she did and honest about the fact that she didn't totally unplugged. And her reasoning for not, you know, for turning on her. Her Apple home so that she could listen to music because it was so quiet because she was alone. If I had a digital day off, my kids would be driving me insane and there would be way too much noise. I would have to turn the technology on just to get some peace and quiet. So opposite worlds. But you kind of, you hear that. That's the specialness of what Whitney brings to the world and brings to our podcast. This might get uncomfortable, so. So you're going to want to check that out. But the big plus is, is that lots of the things that we model and we do, if you're with us here at Potitize, if you're in our coaching programs, you have access to Whitney. You can ask her questions. She's always available and she's so great at filtering out things and giving us her honest view on how something works. And I'm so grateful to have her part of our leadership team here at Potterties. So thank you so much, Whitney. We appreciate you. We appreciate all our fabulous women podcasters that we featured on the that are a part of the Potatoes Network. Just loving how many women we have involved in the process and how many women's voices are rising to the top. And you know, we're bringing up all boats in that process, right? Some men, too. Some great men like Jason Robel, who is Whitney's co host, like my husband and partner, Tom Hazard. We're bringing them up in the process by being strong women and by bringing out our voices as well. We're taking us all along for the rides together and that's fabulous thing. So thank you all for listening to the show. I'm glad, I hope you got a lot out of this one. It was jam packed with lots of new ideas and I'm going to be back next time with even more new ideas right here on the Binge Factor.

You've been listening to the Binge Factor Podcast. For more information on podcasting and videocasting success tips and tactics, please go to thebingefactor.com and be sure to listen to our other show for podcasters called Feed. You'd brand. If you'd like to be interviewed on this show as well as featured in Tracy's column, please go to thebingefactor.com guest and apply.

Sam.