How Actionable Business Strategy Can Actually Make Attractive And Bingeable Podcast With Annie P. Ruggles Of Too Legitimate To Quit

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority Magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazzard shares strategies, tips and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor. Now let's join Tracy as she explores how to rise above all the digital noise with the Binge Factor.

Sometimes podcasters leave such an impression on you. Annie P. Ruggles, my guest today on the Binge Factor, is one of those people. She has just left such an impression Too Legitimate to Quit is the name of our podcast, which I absolutely love. For over a decade, Annie P. Has harnessed her hulk like disdain for hard sales, tacky self promotion, and overly competitive sleaze balls as inspiration to help people find better ways to grow their small business. As founder of the Non Sleazy Sales Academy, she's guided hundreds of people toward making deeper connections, lasting impressions, and friendlier, more lucrative transactions and conversations. Hence her podcast, her pride and joy. Is her podcast Too Legitimate to Quit Instantly? Actionable Small Business Strategies with a Pop Culture Spin I Had so Much Fun. Annie and I are both 80s girls, so we had a lot of fun chatting about all of these things and her pop culture spin. So it was just one of the most enjoyable podcasts I've had in the last few months. And I cannot rave about her show enough. So you're going to have to listen to this interview with Annie P. Ruggles. Too Legitimate to Quit.

Annie, thanks so much for joining me. Too Legitimate to Quit I love the title of the show. Was that your first title or did you go through a few iterations?

That was my first title. I always overthink the titles of everything. It's one of my weird quirks or kinks or I don't know what. But I was walking around and I had Too Legit to Quit stuck in my head and I was like, yeah, I'll just call it Too Legit to quit. I'm like, no, that's somebody else's ip. Like how do I make it businessy? And I actually said to myself, I should call it something like Too Legitimate to Quit. And then proceeded to brainstorm for an additional month until finally I was like, oh yeah, that offhanded thing you said at the beginning of the brainstorming could have saved a month of your life.

Yeah, we're often right with our instincts, right?

But I was like, oh, I could call it this, or I could call it this, or I could. And it was always, like, it went from clear to clever to crazy to cutes. Like, it ran the gamut of all these naming styles. And I was like, you could just add five letters and make it a totally different title plus an homage. Why don't you just do that?

Yeah, it's great. It's a wonderful title. I love the energy that it sets, too. It's just setting that tone for what your show is going to be about. But what made you start a podcast? Even getting to that point where you're, like, coming up with cool titles, it's.

Interesting, the evolution of how this show came to be. I never really considered podcasting, which is hysterical because I was a voracious podcast listener. So I was listening to podcasts about fricking everything, History, psychology, not a lot of business. And I think because I wasn't listening to a lot of other business podcasts, it didn't really occur to me to have a business podcast of my own. And yet, everyone around you, if you're in anything close to business or personal development, you are bombarded a hundred bajillion times a day to get your content out there and make sure your content is really uniquely yours. You need content, you need video, you need all these things. And I was like, okay, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do a video. And I am blessed and cursed with obsessive compulsive disorder. So when I fixate, I fixate. And I got really hooked on this idea of what if I could teach sales communications through the lens of the Golden Girls, how each of the Golden Girls would have a different selling style or a different selling strength. And so that kind of started the snowball rolling of like, oh, and then after I do that, I could talk about lessons from Columbo. If y' all can't tell I'm an 80s baby, the references are not gonna stop.

They're to it from me because I am too.

I'm like, oh, what about Columbo? Ooh, what about this? Ooh, what about this? And I kept writing instead of making video or audio. And I was like, what is this? Why? I know. I'm trying to figure out what this is. It's starting to feel really flat and one sided. I have vast experience within my lane of experience, but my lane of experience is very narrow, number one. Number two, I have vast, deep love for pop culture that happened between 1986 and 1996. You know what I mean? Like, it's very broad, but very slim. And so I started thinking about, what if I could have conversations with people instead? What if I could bring other people into this joy? And what if I could bring some of the names that are stuck being so serious all the time because they're considered experts in this very serious thing that is online business and marketing and sales. What if I can empower, Empower them to have a little fun with their content and look at things differently? And I thought, a lot of people are still not super comfortable on video. Why don't I just take the resistance out of it one step further? Just have an audio only interview only, pop culture, small business podcast. And so that's how it came to be.

I love it. So normally I go a little bit farther into the episode and talk about their binge factor, but here I'm gonna.

Do it right now because you hit.

It right on it. Is that when I listen to your show, I know you're a listener. There's a distinct difference. This is. I tell the audience this. I can tell the difference between a podcast host that's a listener and one that's not. Annie Ruggles is clearly a listener. There's no question about that.

Yeah.

And it translates into the fact that this is a sales, communication, business development show disguised as an energetic gossip show. That's how it feels to me. I feel like it's Gilmore Girls for business or something like that.

It has been called the TMZ of business podcasting. And at first I wanted to, like, bristle against that and be like, ew, tmz. So trashy. And I'm like, no. TMZ is consumably bingeable to the point that you don't realize how much you're actually taking in until you look and you go, did I really just browse that site for 35 minutes? Great. Let me be that podcast. Learn while you have fun. I love it.

That's right. You should just take that as a total compliment and go from there. Because you know what? We have to learn in whatever formats we're comfortable in, and sometimes we need that nudge to kind of force us to learn these things that are so important to us. And if we're willing to go and have fun and chat and listen to the talk show style and then get some takeaways at the end that we apply.

Great.

Good for you and good for us.

My dream for the show is not just to put out individual episodes that are fun and actionable, although obviously that's the day to Day, week to week delivery of my show. But I love hearing from listeners and guests on the show that one thing that they enjoy is the application of one of my mottos, which is that inspiration's fricking everywhere, right? And so what I've heard from people, including my guests and including my listeners, and even the way that I do it myself is somebody will be watching something on Netflix at 2 o' clock in the morning when they can't sleep, and then they'll go, oh, you know what? That would make really good copywriting. See what he did? That there's really good. It's 2 o' clock in the morning, they're binging Netflix. And now they're like, okay, hold on. Accident item for my business. Make sure my next email includes this point. Whoa. Excellent. I'm so delighted you're finding out that the world is unlimited free marketing and sales resources packaged as entertainment. Get after it, y'. All. Fantastic. That's what I want, is I want people to have fun, and I want people to have that filter that they can see what repels them and what attracts them is all around us. It's not just in traditional advertising, and it's not just in somebody's webinar.

And this is something that I think about a lot, that there is this success factor that I see from the people who are able to synthesize what's going on from a trend development standpoint, from a consumer, consumer culture. Like, when you understand intimately how people buy or how people consume, you do a better job. That's what we're doing here on the binge factor. We're talking about how people are consuming podcasts and what that translates into the consumption of your products, your services, your coaching, your business. Right? And how you make those two things tie together. And you already have that skill, and now you're almost in a meta way, exposing it, right? Like, you're talking about these things that are inspiring you, these things that are like, tie ins that seem maybe not as logical, but in your brain, you're sharing those connection points. And I think that frees your listeners to do the same thing. And that's important because when we sit back and we treat our business like it's a pedantic lesson in this is the process, and we reduce it down to that. No one takes it in at the end of the day because it's too structured, it doesn't fit my brain. I let it go, I lose it. This is why people don't finish courses. They don't read through the whole book, right?

Our brains are fricking tired, y'. All. Our brains are oversaturated sponges that we keep pouring more and more into. And if you're an online marketer or you're running an online business, part of your job is to try to cram your bits and bobs into somebody else's already leaking sponge.

But additionally, like, I think that you're. This is the point of like, you being a podcast listener makes. This makes the difference. Right here is the fact that those of us who say, oh yeah, I'm in social media, but I'm not on Twitter or I'm not on Facebook or I don't ever go on my. That drives me crazy. You cannot be a good expert in this if you're not in it and consuming it yourself.

And so one thing I said at the beginning was that when I first went into my podcast journey, I wasn't listening to any business podcasts. Now approaching episode 100, I have not only interviewed some of the most brilliant business podcasters in the world, I have subscribed and binged their shows. And listening to their marketing and sales shows not only make my show better, they make my business better. They live up to their promise. Not that you can only find inspiration for your business or for your show from other shows on podcasting or marketing, of course you can, but fight it. From Ghost Hunters and Sasquatch and all the weird stuff I listen to, I think I was afraid to see what else was in my lane because I didn't want it to get tainted and, or my vision to get tainted or I didn't want to get jealous or competitive. And instead I find the wealth of podcasts available to be completely inspiring on a multi time a day basis.

I think you're so right. Look here for the binge factor. My job is to go listen to your show. And so I listened to your show and I can tell you that there's this. I have two interviews today. I'm like, I'm going to have to listen to six episodes because that's how I do it, right? I got six episodes. So the day before, like, I'm like, okay, are they going to be like, good or are they going to be like, I just don't know and then yours. Like, I'm like, I love this show. Like, it happens to me more often than I expect, that I end up loving it, that I learned something, that it's like new input into it, and now I may not have the time to fully binge that show. But I've spot binged it enough to know there's something really great going on here and I'm learning something and taking infinite. So, yeah, I agree with you. I think we get a little caught up. It's why I've not written a book. Like, I'm a voracious reader, and because of it, my book is still sitting on my shelf and not published because I got myself into paralysis. So it can happen, but it can also inspire.

I didn't make my audiograms for, like, three weeks, and it wasn't even an act of, like, active resistance. I just straight up forgot. Until my wonderful, beautiful, loving assistant, whose job it is to send these out to my guests and to babysit me in general, was like, hello, this spreadsheet is empty. And I went. And I was like, oh, I guess I didn't fill in the spreadsheet. And then I went in Headliner. And I was like, oh, I guess I never made the audiograms. Okay, I'll add next week. Oh, I'm like, oh, I went downstairs. I had said to my husband, I'm like, I might be a little burnt out. Might be a little burnt out, considering I just totally didn't do the thing that was such a part of my routine. And that happens. All the more reason to go out, seek inspiration from other podcasts, meet other podcasters, showcase other brains with your own message. If you have a you only show or you want to do a you only show, listen, that is your prerogative. And I'm certainly not trying to say that you are not interesting enough to have your own solo show. I'm sure you are. However, nothing reignites that loving feeling in me. And nothing gets me excited to share my show week after week than introducing my listeners to the magnificent brains that come on and gab with me. It is such a joy, and it still showcases me. People say, wait a minute, are you going to be able to make any money if you're always promoting these other people? Yeah, somebody's gotta ask them questions. Somebody's gotta interject in between. And like you so lovingly said, it sounds like a gossip show. I'm all over it. Some episodes I talk more than they do, and then I look at the transcript and I go, gee, Annie showed up a little.

That was one of the first things I said as I was listening to your. The very first episode I picked, which is your most recent one. And so, because that's my process, I go, most recent. Go to your first and go in the middle and I was like, wow, there's a lot of her in it. But it's working. I think it's a fine line and it works because you have such a energetic personality that is just like off the chart that I. It's infectious. And I think that's why that works for you. It might not work for everyone, and so I really do want people to be cautious of that.

No, it's a whole dial though, right? There are podcasts that are incredible, that are hostless, that are all curated audio, and there are four hour an episode solo shows that are absolutely incredible and everything in between.

Yeah. And I think for you that though, I think the way that you use your. I don't want to say it's like a monologue, but the way that you do that piece where you're talking and where it might be a little bit longer, it sets a new tone, it nudges the direction of the conversation, and it ups the energy every time you do it. And that makes a big difference in the quality of the show overall. So your guest doesn't know you yet and you're moving the needle to where you want it to go by doing that each episode.

I'm so glad you called that out, because I call it my final thought because I grew up secretly watching Jerry Springer on days when I pretended to be sick.

You really are like an 80s 90s kid.

Right? And one of my favorite things about watching the Springer show as a kid is literally the craziest, wildest stuff I could imagine would happen for about 56 minutes of TV, including commercials, just people throwing stuff, wigs flying, elbows being thrown, women flashing the camera. Just craziest stuff I could imagine. And then Jerry Springer would say, at the end of this pure chaos, a very poised put together, Jerry Springer would say, everybody, I'll be back in just a second with my final thought. And then they would go to whatever commercial, they would come back and Jerry would be on a stool and he would look at the camera and you would understand how at one point he had been a mayor because he just looks at the camera and would say something wildly profound. And I remember as a kid being like, did he just see the same episode I just saw? Because he made this a beautiful point about self compassion. And literally that chick just threw a turtle at that other chick, like, what? And I was worried before I knew I was gonna babble the whole time on my show about how I would still have something that was mine. And I was worried because I considered myself a writer, that I wouldn't have that thread of me through it. And so I thought, wait a minute, have a Jerry Springer final thought.

I love that that's the inspiration for that. I was gonna ask you about that and I love that that's really what it was.

Every single episode of my show after the interview, which can go any number of ways, much like a Springer show, I tell everybody I'll be back in just a second with my final thought, which is a term ripped off of Springer directly and their homework for the week. And then I have a pre written thing that I record, just me. Normally it's one to three minutes, but I do that. So that week to week, my listeners have a little touch point. That's just me. No matter what comes up in the episode, I can make sure I deliver on my podcast promise instantly actionable small business strategies with a pop culture spin. The pop culture part's been delivered. No matter what happened though, I gotta make sure that they have something to do. So that's why I give them homework week to week. Because then I'm fulfilling that promise of action. Not only that in the community, beyond the show. Then I give them something to do together. I wouldn't have that if I didn't carve out that final thought. And that's one of the things where people go sometimes I'm just so busy and your episodes are so long, I skip right to the final thought. Is that okay? And I'm like, if you need homework that week, sure.

I love that their feedback is that they're skipping to you. That's a sign of a really great show, Annie. And you should be so proud of what you created. Because I thought when I heard that you had homework on it, I thought, what? How would this work? And I didn't think it would actually work, but it so does. Because you're talking about not like serious sit down writer like you're talking about contemplated. Make them take an action. Make them do something. It is in that format that we're really learning from what we just did. And you help us formulate that, you help us move that, get it to start gelling in our thoughts over the next week. Which makes us look forward to hearing you again. You've created that forward binge ability, right? Like, I'm not going to miss the next episode now you've done that. It's called open looping when you leave it that way. But you open loop to something back, something forward. But in your case, you're making me desire that feeling of I got something out of this Now I want it again.

I'm putting that in my Christmas letter this year, Tracy. I have forward Benjamin.

That's right. I love it. That's so great. Let's talk about the three things that everybody's always curious about. Every podcaster struggling with these three things. We again, matched, got matched on Pod Match. And I love the AI because they totally should have matched us together. Like, we should be matched on every. Like, match.com, right? We should be matched. We should be friends, right like this. And the AI seems to know that. So it's doing phenomenally well to put us together here. But you have a bigger process with how you manage your guests and other things like that. You alluded it to me earlier. So we really want to hear how that whole guesting piece works for you. How do you manage it? How do you engage them? How do you get them moving forward, and how do you get great ones?

I think the thing is, I show up full bore me the second that they show up on my zoom, and I don't hold back. I don't want them much. Like, I teach my cause. Okay, hold on. In my day job, y', all, I teach sales. I run the Non Stacy Sales Academy. That's what the podcast is all for. Okay, cool, we're back in. So within that day job, I am constantly making sure that my clients are not shape shifting or tone shifting in between their content, their delivery, and because it's like, ooh, who is this? I don't want to give my guess that whiplash where they show up in the green room and I'm either totally myself and then we start recording, and I'm like, thank you so much for coming today, Tracy. Or alternatively, which I've also experienced, people are like, okay, here we go. And you're like, whoa, who is this person? So I just show up. I already know everybody. Like, I've already known everybody. And I have researched them. Research helps because helps set the tone. It helps ease everybody in. But I just. I have a spiel that I make sure I get in about what I expect and how things are gonna run and things they need to know. Is it swear, friendly, how long are we gonna go? All those different things. But then I just sit there and I show pure, actual, unbridled enthusiasm that I get to pick this person's brain for free. How many of us have been shamed about not asking people to pick their brains? We get it. We all have had people wanna pick our brains, and we're like, if there were anything left, you could Pick it. But my God, I'm tired. Right? However, when you're about to interview someone, the best thing you can do is give them the gift of enthusiasm and curiosity and attention. That's real. That is, regardless of your listener, if you are wrapped in attention, your guests will feel that and your audience will sense that and they'll pay closer attention. So I don't get people delivering their pat stale flat, whatever. Number one, my form has personality when they fill it out. Their invitation has personality when they throw it out, and I'm inviting them to a pop culture show. But you can do this whether or not your show is funny or fun or not, by just showing that presence and that little bit of green room time you get before. But honestly, I think what makes my show different and how I've built a community around my show is I would get so fricking frustrated. Like you said, like, thank goodness Podmatch matched us. Thank goodness that AI did its job today because we finally got matched up. It drives me bonkers. And we did this in our own green room. I'm like, wait a minute, you don't know my friend Deb Ekerling? You gotta get Deb Ekerling. Do you know Aaron Baker, who's this week's TLTQ guest? You gotta know Aaron Baker. Oh, my gosh. Because it would make me cranky. We are all podcasters. We are all in the same boat together doing magnificent things. And the fact that Bestie A and Bestie B don't know each other is not okay. And so I let my guests know that they are also joining a community that's completely voluntary. It takes physical form on LinkedIn. It's called the Legitimati. Everybody's welcome to join it, but additionally, I have parties for my guests. I am constantly introducing my guests to other guests. I do a lot of guesting myself. I do a lot of pod swaps. That's all community building based on, again, my unbridled enthusiasm and curiosity about the gift of the brain that I am receiving. As long as you don't hold back on showing that appreciation, the community can't help but form around your show. And all you have to do is go, oh, wait, I gotta send an email here. Or, oh, wait, let me tagged two people on this post.

And by doing that, though, you've created this. The guest must share. They feel so good coming out of your interview that they can't help but share that episode. And that's really where I think it goes really wrong for a lot of Podcasters that they don't get the share quality from the guest, and it really was that they weren't invested in the moment of the show itself.

And also totally true. And I'm guilty of this too. If I have a super shiny interview or a less shiny interview or one where I felt like the host and I were long lost cousins or something, I'm gonna put more stank on that episode on Social because it means more to me. That's just true. But I think another thing if we're talking about shareability, which is really counterintuitive about podcasting, is there's a lot of pressure on landing big names on your show. The celebrity guest. And I've had some celebrity guests, and it has been a delight to interview my celebrity guests. Did I get a big bump in listenership because of my celebrity guests Listen in listeners? The answer is hell no. Why? Because they don't need my show. They're celebrity guests. They're busy. They're on a million shows. Their listeners chime in no matter what they do. They could read a cereal box in their. People love them. So do they try? No. Nice for name recognition. Sure. Nice for going out and getting other big fish when you can be like, hey, I had your fancy pants friend on. Maybe you should come too. Sure. However, I call this the assistant principal effect. If you go after the principal of a school because you're trying to sell the school, that principal is busy and that principal does not need you. The vice principal has something to prove. The vice principal gets none of the glory and most of the work. Why are you not putting the vice principals on your show? If people come to me and they say, my list is small or my business is new, I say, okay, what do you have to share? I don't even ask them how they're going to share the show. I say, what do you in your brain have to share that my listeners need to know? What is your perspective, your vantage point? I have people apologize to me for the size of their Instagram when applying to be on my show. No, y'. All. No. And I hear people all the time. Oh, I can't have so and so because they're not a name. Well, then help them become a name. Get a buddy in the game. And also give them great content to share because they're hungry for it. I have the podcasting stats to prove that you can bring a person with no list on your show, and if they show up in full heart, you will have multiples of the number of listens on your celebrity guests because you believe in them on their way up. Not you're showcasing someone that's already in the spotlight. I'm telling you, y' all don't sleep on the smallest people. They have just as much to say, if not more so. They are unsung heroes. They will be grateful and damn it, will they get in there and share.

They will work their butts off. Oh, Annie, I could just come through the screen right now and kiss you because I'm so tired of being the broken record and saying this to people. I tell this John Travolta story like this is because that was my celebrity, and I tell the story about how bad it was and everything. Like that was a bad interview was bad. Sharing everything about it was. But it's the same thing.

Yes.

You are so right on this. And this is my goal in and with some of the things that we've been doing is to really make sure that the podcasters that I have on the binge factor are committed to podcasting, not have the super high listens. Because the ones that don't have the super high listens are the ones we learn the most from because they're working their butts off on it. Right?

Exactly. I'm not knocking anybody in the top 5%, but they got there by doing all the hard work to get there.

Now they don't talk about it right now.

It's just built in. Yeah, that's the same thing from the guesting side. I've experienced the same thing. Number one, I've had people tell me that my list is not big enough to be on their show or want to charge me four figures, five figures to be on their show. And my response to both of those things is no, but. But I've also been on some super big shows that are in the top 1%, 0.5%, 0.05% podcasts as a guest, and I've delivered great content on those shows. I've also delivered great content on shows that don't even rank on podcastings yet. I've been interview number one for people. Guess where I made more money Again, I have the receipts for this big show. I expected to make a zillion dollars. Did I? No, I didn't. Little show. I expected to maybe get a handful of listens. Didn't really expect any clients. Did I get clients from that? Heck, yes. Why? Again, partnership with the host or partnership with the guest and showing someone that you don't care if they're a big fish, they're A big fish to you.

So smart. Let's talk about listeners, listener growth. I think it's every podcaster's biggest dream. They all want more listeners. And that's. That's partially true. I would like more of the right listeners, still more listeners. So what do you feel like you're doing that's working, and what are you thinking about trying next?

I love the next. Right. I always want next. Next. One thing that I think that I'm doing right is providing the homework. It's one thing for me to take an hour of someone's time to make them laugh while they do dishes, but at the end of the day, one thing I think I do well, which leads into clients in the long term, but listeners in the short term is I do provide that actionable, tangible takeaway that grounds my show week after week. And I'm very painstaking on what that is. Sometimes it's a soft skill, sometimes it's a hard skill. Sometimes it's fill out a worksheet, Sometimes it's a tend a thing, right? Whatever it may be. But if it's not gonna move the needle at least an inch, it doesn't go into the homework, right? So week after week, the listeners know I am overwhelmed. I'm stressed. I'm a small business owner. I have too much on my plat. What the heck am I going to do to move the needle this week? Oh, Annie will tell me what to do. I got three minutes. At least I can get my three minutes at the end of the episode. If I can't listen to the whole hour or if I don't like the pop culture thing, you might get the whole hour. That's the other thing on listeners that I think I'm doing right by having an expert. That's one touch point that might bring them in by having that expertise, their topic, their content, their thought leadership, that's another possible lure. And then by having the pop culture piece, that's another possible lure. So using this week episode as an example, I'm interviewing Dr. Erin Baker. They themselves may be a perfect lure. I love Aaron. Their brain is magnificent. Maybe someone groupies of Aaron will run on in number one. Aaron just wrote a book about joy and how joy is actually an extremely necessary, profitable business engine. If I'm curious about that, I may come in on the idea of joy. But then we also talk about A League of Their Own. So if I'm in A League of Their Own movie or series, right. Then I may come in that way. However, I understand that not Any of those week to week may be for all listeners. So the other thing that I have done to make sure that binging because we're on the binge factor happens is I don't see a lot of sequential binges on my show. I don't see a lot of. I listen to episode 91, the 92, the 93, the 94, the 95. I see lots of cousins and grouping. So one thing that I do is I provide my listeners with playlists. For example, if you are looking at this week's episode, again, League of Their Own episode, League of Their Own was a major movie in the 1990s. So that episode is on my legitimate 90s playlist. In my show notes it says this is part of the legitimate 90s playlist. And if you go to the legitimate 90s playlist, you're going to see a whole bunch of other 90s movies, TV and music right there that you can choose from why you're more likely to binge if I'm meeting you where you are now. On the flip side of that, I also have legitimate selling legitimate social media, right? So if you're hungry for social media content and only social media based content, you can also go over there and get your actionable needs met. So I think one of the things I would implore you all to do is have fun with the exploration, with asking yourself the question, how will your show be binged? Because there are ways other than just episode binge.

That's so, so true. I'm really glad you said that because I think that is the next right for a lot of people as they hit 100. That's the perfect time because it's too many at that point for people to scroll through. It's the perfect time to start playlisting your shows or grouping them together, frankly, it's why we built our showcase. We have a showcaster player. We built it for playlists in mind because this is so critically important to get people moving through the episodes that are going to be most beneficial to them. And it's the one that will make them stick around and listen to the new episodes when they come out. Yes.

So now I have the playlists and what I'm excited for next is to rock those playlists even more. That's great.

So you're thinking maybe about finding guests to add to these playlists and finding topics that you can talk about that are going to build on them or.

Going out and doing social listening on those things. I was listening to your show. I didn't even know that bippity boppity business existed.

Oh my gosh, that is a fun one.

Why is that person. Why are we not best friends? A, B, how did this podcast sneak past me? C, why hasn't she been a guest on tltq? And also why isn't she sponsoring the legitimate Disney playlist? She has a business Disney podcast. I have a legitimate Disney playlist. Why are these things not touching?

There should be cross pollination. Yes.

See, so that's the thing is like now I can look at building ecosystems around those playlists now that I have those playlists.

That's so great. I think that also the homework that you mentioned at the beginning of this conversation that we're having about the listener growth, the homework is a really interesting way to keep listeners. And this is as important, I think, for everyone to think about is that the reason we want a bingeable show is because we keep our listeners. Because the more they we get in their ear, the more they're like, what is she going to say next and what's the next one going to be about? And I don't want to miss it. So it's about them then sticking on to listen to the new things as they come out and when they listen to the new picky about it because they have no idea what they're getting into when they listen to it. It's not so then they really are listening through to figure out what's going on. But that homework is a bug in their ear. So even if they don't do the homework, they've got this. I was assigned homework and I should be thinking about this. I should be doing this. And you are still in their mind throughout the week till they hit the next episode, going, dropping. And that's I think really important. You are bringing them through just from that, inviting them to that next episode.

One of the best pieces of show mail I ever got. It made me feel like a little demon for three days. I was like.

Somebody sent me an email and I have this little box that says evidence to the contrary for imposter syndrome, right? So I print out these things or I put my little cards in there, right? Because everybody has bad days. But I put this little note, I actually printed it out and put it in there and it said, hi, Annie, I just wanted to let you know I just paid $495 for a one on one session with a coach and she told me to do last week's TLTQ homework as the big payoff of the episode. So thanks for literally giving me for free something I just paid $500 for. And I was like, oh, that's terrible. And awesome.

And awesome, right?

And so I put it in the next step and I'd mentioned it in the next episode. I was like, hey, y', all, apparently last week's homework was worth$500,495 to be exact. Like, get after it. If you didn't do last week's homework, people are charging for this information. And I was like, oh, that's terrible. And I'm not trying to take money out of anybody's pocket, but it is a really tangible way to provide value for people whose shows are supposed to motivate and inspire action. Your true crime podcast is probably not going to have homework, maybe activism homework, which would be great and I would love to see. Right? But they're not going to be like God and try to poison someone today.

Please, please don't.

You're a parenting podcast, a lifestyle podcast, a cooking podcast, a relationship podcast, a psychology podcast, a business podcast. Give them some homework. Come on.

I love that. I love it. Let's talk monetization. Because podcasting, everybody's always concerned about that. But I guarantee there's lots of alternative or what I'm going to say is wonderful fringe opportunities that have come your way and other things that have happened to you because of your podcast. So what's been the clearest monetization for you and what do you wanna see more of?

Relationship based affiliate boom. And if y' all have been listening this episode, that shouldn't surprise you. I treat my guests like family. My guests become my family. If I'm on their show, I make sure I love them up and share it a ton, right? And so I make any money from my podcast. I do no advertising. My show isn't big enough yet. It's rapidly growing. But advertisers, serious advertisers want that big money, want that big list. And my show is still growing. We're less than two years old, right? So we're currently sitting right in the top 2%. So we have some room to grow still. And yet I'm not hurting because my BFFs that become my BFFs on live mic while I'm interviewing them. Not in the green room, not in an email before, not in the follow up after literally becoming my best friends on the mic, get me, understand me. And I make sure that in the moments following, we understand how we can mutually support each other. And so I get a lot of referred business from My guests. And that has been a phenomenal revenue stream for my business. Now, I have also gotten a handful of clients directly from my show. But let me tell you where I went really wrong on that. Cause I did. Sometimes if you have a business show or if you have a show that is related to your business, your show doesn't quite match your business. So the non Sleazy Sales Academy and Too Legitimate to Quit are buddies. They're not twins.

Oh, I'm so glad you said that.

Because I am an onion and I like to talk about things other than just selling, which is my bread and butter and what I talk about on other people's shows except this wonderful show who lets me talk about other things. Thank you, Tracy. But what I didn't do was explain the gap between the NSA and TLTQ and how they're both me. And if you want access to me, then you can go into the next step in my action item. I didn't want it to be the Annie P. Ruggles show. I was really big on that. However, I'm trying to get people to pay me. And it's right after my final thought where they just had an adulterated me. So maybe I should have owned that a bit more. And now I do. Number one, so do not hide in your call to action. If you're trying to monetize, drive them to you. Not another collaborative project. If you're doing an interview show number one. And number two, call to action people, please. I did this so badly. If you go back into my original episodes where the ending hasn't been replaced with a more current ending, if you go back there, hey, thanks so much for listening. Here's 45, 000 things you could possibly do, Every funnel I've ever done and 17 other interviews you can listen to.

And don't forget to rate and review.

Don't forget to write and reveal. Oh, homies, no. So, y', all, if you want to monetize, what is the next action you want your listeners to take? 1. Action 1. I just got them to listen. They just did their homework. Now what do I want them to do? I want them to go join the legitimati and post their homework.

Okay, Legitimati. That is one of my favorite terms, by the way. I'm so glad we got to that because I wanted everyone and everybody to hear that. It's one of my favorite terms.

But one show, one call to action, one place where I can have that centralized thing now is them joining legitimati going to make me money immediately. No, it's a longer term funnel, but is coming into a LinkedIn group where everyone is constantly being like, oh my God, Annie, this episode is amazing and I'm so glad I did my homework. It made me $500. Yeah, that's going to bring me in some business indirectly. So there are longer term goals, like building that ecosystem around your show, which you can monetize. There are also the shorter term goals, the people that will bring you money quickly. Those are your affiliates and guess what? They're probably your guests.

Well, Annie would be remiss if I didn't ask you and I'm so glad you gave us a takeaway about the calls to action. But I mean, non sleazy sales academy. I love the synergistic sales communication messaging that you talk about. What other types of things do you really think from the business side of what you do that us podcasters should utilize?

From the business side of things, what should podcasters utilize? I touched on it before, but let me reiterate it because it really is that important. It's actually two steps. Number one, if you are not using podcasting to network, you are missing the joy of podcasting.

Boom.

Period. Done. That's it. Okay. But that being said, if you are using podcasting to network, but you are not using that network to build an ecosystem involving your other people's favorite brains and not just your brain, you are missing out. This happens on a daily basis in my world now, and it even delights me equally or more than my show when I see two people who didn't know each other, who are highly complimentary, serve each other either as partners, as contractors, as new friends, as support sisters, as whatever. Why A I'm a pre people I love when my people love my people, it makes me feel good. I'm an only child. I love to be surrounded in love. I don't know, maybe it's a childhood thing, but every single time one of those people has a touch point with that other person, even if it's subconscious, my name is comes back up to the surface. As a connector, as someone in the know, as a generous person, as a person who is willing to go the extra mile to make sure they got their next opportunity. So what you should be doing, y', all, is after you interview everyone, introduce if they were exceptional. And most of your interviewers will be. If you show up exceptionally, most of your guests will rise to that occasion. You set the bar. At the end of every single episode, I want you asking your guests what other kind of shows they want to be on. You know that. And then you can make an introduction. I make introductions constantly. And the same thing. I said it to you in pre chat before we even recorded it. I'm like, I know podcast hosts that are incredible. Who do you want? When I'm a guest, I ask the same question in reverse. Who do you want on this show? Who do you need? I have a whole list of people in my head just waiting for Tracy. And guess what? Those people rely on me because they know that without second thought or even a prayer of monetization that I'm going to get you and them connected. How is that going to turn into immediate money for me? Who knows? Let's find out. But what it does turn into is a lot of gratitude. And gratitude you can take to the bank.

Drop the mic right there, Annie. That was just perfect. And such a great takeaway. Homework. Let's go build our networks. Right, everyone, let's thinking about how you can use your show to create that community.

Heck yeah.

Annie, thank you so much. Too legitimate to quit a show. Not to be missed.

What an endorsement. Thank you so much for having me. Tracee.

I love this model of a business show disguised as a talk show, as a gossip show. And that's what our show is like. It's just got a lot of fun injected in it in all the right places and but some great actionable items that come out of it in the end. It's just really fascinating to see this model work so well.

And a lot of this is Annie.

She just pulls this off in just such a great way. It's what she's interested in, it's what she's excited about. It's the uniqueness she brings to her podcast in such a great way. So I just think that this is a model that can't be pulled off by everyone. But there are some of you out there who really could pull off something very unique to you. And take a note from Annie P. Ruggles and the two legitimate to quit podcast plus, there's just lots of great tips and talks and all kinds of things that she just gave you in that episode that you might want to go to the blog post for this episode and make your notes. I look forward to having you listen to Annie P. Ruggles and check out her show and take some actionable items and put it into your plan for your podcast. And I will be back next week with another great podcast host here on the Binge Factor to give you just another perspective on podcasting.

You've been listening to the Binge Factor Podcast. For more information on podcasting and videocasting success tips and tactics, please go to thebingefactor.com and be sure to listen to our other show for podcasters called Feed you'd brand. If you'd like to be interviewed on this show as well as featured in Tracy's column, please go to thebingefactor.com guest and apply.

Sam.