How Does Redefining Your Podcast Categories Enhance Discoverability And Growth

Want your podcast and videocast to be seen, heard, found and rewarded in this noisy digital world, you are not alone. Join the nonprofit community at Podcasters United and podcast industry experts Tom Hazard and Tracy Hazard as they debunk all that outdated and bad advice you've been getting from the podcast gurus and find out what actually works. Today, get ready to Feed. Feed your brand with smart cut tactics proven to cast your original voice to the world.

Hey everyone. Welcome to Feed you'd brand. I'm Tom Hazard along with my co host Tracy Hazard. Today we're going to talk about how does redefining your podcast categories enhance discoverability and growth. You know, Tracy, we get a lot of questions about podcast categories in general.

Well, let's define them because like, that's a big issue. What's a podcast category?

Well, there are a finite number of podcast categories, let me tell you. It's defined by Apple, much as Spotify and others probably would don't like that for good or bad. Apple invented the podcast and the ipod and the podcast and the whole industry and everyone follows them. They define the categories and they're imperfect in a lot of ways.

Well, when we first started there was like 30 categories or something like that. That was it. And now there's over a hundred with the subcategories included. So you do have a lot of flexibility. But if you're an author, think of them like the listing area, the category that you're in as a book. Think of it like the genre of music. And that's how this got started was that they had to take the podcasting ecosystem and, and as they started to get so many podcasts, they had to say this is an entertainment style podcast, this is a sports style podcast, this is a business podcast. And so they started to categorize them which helps people search and find. And that's what we're going to talk about because discoverability depends on these podcast categories.

Well, and it really think about how people use them too. When they are just browsing for content, they haven't searched on keywords, they're just perusing their listening app. But I want to listen to a podcast around about medical symptoms for this. And they don't type in a search, but they just start looking through medical.

Related podcasts which are not really listed that way. They're health and wellness and they're combined together. So that's why subcategories got created, to kind of dial that down. So you could have fitness separate, you could have some of these things that broke it down. A little bit further for you so you could be more specific. And it's meant for the listener. It's not really meant for the podcaster. I mean, you need to list your show that way, but it's meant to help the listener who's browsing. If you want to think of it like that way, they don't know what they're looking for. They're just kind of looking for something, a drama, a comedy. We search and browse all the time. In most of our listing apps of any kind, whether it's for viewing streaming television, for listening to music, we browse like that. Now, Amazon and the book world has taught us to be a lot more specific because there's so much noise and so many listings, that it taught us to be more specific both in how we list our books and in this case, how we list our podcasts, but also how we search. So we know that we get better results if we're searching for something in a much more narrow category. And so that's one of the things that we do. But if you want to look at charts, and Apple has charts, there are charts associated with each category, and that matters as well. So if you just don't know what you're looking for, but you want to see what's topping the charts in business entrepreneurship, then you can see that that is true.

You can. The thing that's often I come across a show because we launch new shows here all the time. I come across a show that isn't really a good fit for any existing category, and they say, well, my show should be listed under this. Well, I agree with you, it should. But there's no such category. So you have to sort of make the best choices you can. And you get to be listed in three categories in Apple in most listening apps.

But you could choose more than that. It ends up being three relevant ones at the end of the day.

Well, first, here's the other confusing thing about categories. Only one of them, the very first category, will actually be displayed in your show listing on Apple. The first one you choose, even though you're listed and actually charting in the other categories. You can certainly in our system on Poditize, and I believe on some others too, you can choose more than three categories, but not every listening app will use them. So you can't really rely on the sixth category you choose actually helping you chart somewhere on their system. That's not always going to be the case. So what you can count on is listing in three categories. And the first one is the only One that will be visible when you look at your show and it tells you what category it's in. They're not gonna list all three.

So this is a strategy that Tom and I wanna talk with you about today. You should look at and redefine your podcast categories at least once a year. In the beginning, you might wanna do it every six months. When you're just twice a year for the first year or something, or whenever you make a significant shift in your show, you definitely wanna look at your categories again and change them. Because sometimes you think you know your audience and you're not 100% sure. Right. So when we started our podcast in 3D printing, we thought technology news reality is this. We were like technology education and how to, and that's what we became. And so by switching our primary category from technology news to Technology how to, we did a lot better in visibility and discoverability. But we didn't know that when we started the show. So it's something that may come over time as your show morphs into what it's going to be, because we don't know what it's going to be until we start to get feedback and we start to build it. So it is something. Now, this is the great thing about podcasting. You can change this anytime. It's totally flexible. All you have to do is to go in your hosting company system and poditize. You go right into your show level and you take a look at your categories and you adjust it and your feed, you save it and you update your feedback. Your feed updates everywhere within about 24 to 48 hours. Everywhere has it updated into the new category. So it's very flexible. And as Tom put your primary category, what you're first in matters. So another thing to look at each year as you go through it is how am I charting? And maybe where I thought I was. And the third category I picked, I happen to be charting first there or in the top three. That's great. Go ahead and move that to your number one because your listeners are telling you something. Something. Your listeners in that category are telling you that you're the choice. You're the podcast of choice in that category. So take a listen to that, take a look at that, and then make your adjustment there as well. Now, don't do it on a monthly basis. Don't do it. Once a year is more than enough. Once your show is established, it's fine because you need to settle out. Sometimes the charts fluctuate and it's a random thing that happened. One day and it's not that same. You just got a spike of listeners because of a specific guest and. And then it doesn't happen again for six months. So really check that out and only do it once a year.

I see more people getting confused by the charts and we don't really have any data as to how many listeners choose shows by browsing through the charts versus just searching on content. I tend to think most people looking for educational content to inform themselves that looking more business to business content tend to just search search for what they're looking for rather than browse. I think maybe more casual listeners would end up casual listeners who aren't looking more entertainment wise, leisure type stuff. Oh, let me find some podcasts for my next cruise I'm going on so I can load them up before I go. Might browse.

And here's the thing, look, there are three types of listeners that I've come to study as I've studied the binge factor and the things that make a show bingeable and binge listeners. In general, binge listeners are the ones who subscribe to many, many shows. They're always looking for the next great podcast. They're the one that people go to and say what podcasts are you listening to? And they recommend to others. So these are the people you do want to appeal to. Now here's what they know. They know the charts suck. They know the categories aren't any good either. But they do have a category of interest. So when they're trying to search through all the noise because the search engine that is Apple, that is Spotify, that is the podcast directories is awful and they know it. They will narrow into I'm searching for a crime show. And so it used to just be entertainment like and that was too broad. Now it's got crime. I'm searching for a crime show. But then they will type in keywords. They want a crime show that is detective based, murder based, real crime. Right, true crime. They'll use those terms to get to the shows that are relevant to what they're interested in. So they will do it that way, but they'll be specific about it. Then there's the type of listener who wants to learn something, who desperately needs to solve a problem, who maybe got diagnosed with an illness. They want to find out everything they can. They want a support group. They're going to type in their keywords. They're not going to ever use the chart. They're not going to ever go through that whole browsing model. They're Going straight to what they're looking for and what they're really looking for. The person with the most content who is currently relevant. Because I don't want outdated information. If I've got a health issue, I want it today's information. So that's what they're looking for. So they search in a completely different way. Your category doesn't matter to them. Now. Those are the people who will buy everything you have to sell, who will subscribe to your membership groups. They are your biggest return on investment for your podcast. So categories don't matter for them. That's something to really think about. And then the others are what I would call just like, hey, I'm new to podcasting and I'm sort of checking out this thing and I think I'd like to experience some business entrepreneurship stuff. And they're really looking then at the charts, at the categories and going within that, only because searching too generally in the front of everything is too busy for them. It's too much information and they do want to narrow it down. So they think though they have no sense of how bad the charts are yet and they'll still use the charts, click on the charts. And then over time they realize when they click on things on the charts that have no longer publishing episodes that have truly pod faded, they realize that these charts are useless.

I don't think that a show that isn't publishing anymore should really be appearing on the charts pretty high up though.

It does though, because they have massive amounts of listeners built up over time. They still beat out a lot of new podcasts and a lot of podcast. It depends on the category.

Yeah, I'm sure there are some niche categories where that does make sense.

Just think about it like there's no way an old book, a best selling book, will ever be lower on a chart. Amazon had to do a weighting of what was coming in so that the classics, the big publishers didn't alter the chart, didn't always win in the chart because they always sell a million books or a hundred thousand books, whatever it is, and no new self published author could ever beat that. But Apple and Spotify haven't weighed theirs in that way.

And it'll continue to evolve, that's one thing, that's for sure.

But here's the thing, I think, Tom, when you were saying before that we have no data on the categories on how people search and what they do, as I told you, I've studied this and so these are the psychographics of it, but here's what If Apple invested in changing all the categories a few years ago and adding them so that there were a hundred categories, it says to me that it was worth doing. The Apple podcast app is such a stepchild in the Apple podcast model. I mean, like an all of Apple, they don't spend any money on it. They don't have a big enough staff, they don't really invest in making a bunch of changes. But when they did decide to make some changes in the last few years, this is one of the things they invested in making changes in. It says to me that they believe that there is some benefit to it and that's why we should take it seriously.

I agree. There is some benefit to it, no question. I'm not thinking it's a total waste of time to choose categories. I just personally believe Apple was kind of dragged, kind of kicking and screaming to update those categories again. They don't make any money on podcasts, or I mean, they may make a little now, but the vast majority of podcasts, they don't make any money on it. So they invented this industry. It is a stepchild to them in many ways.

It just gets you to use your phone, like all day long is. The point of podcasts is to get you to use your device and have it become so entrenched in your life. That's its point, right? It's creating content so you'll stay in your phone and then all the other stuff will come up. And that's its point. But there are so many great podcasts out there and people are finding the benefit and that's why they've been keeping it. It's not going away. Podcasting isn't going away because people enjoy it. People are getting benefit from it. So how do you show up? And this is what we wanted to point out to you. One of the ways are these podcast categories. So just to recap our strategy, your main category matters the most. It's also something you can change. When you go into a podcast and you launch a brand new one, give your best guess, where do you think your listeners are? And pick that category. Where are they looking for you in? Not where do you think you are, where do they think you are? Or where are they looking for something the most? Put yourself there and then you pick your other two categories based on what you believe. And then as you go forward, you evaluate it, and six months in, take a look at that show and say, should I adjust this? Is there one of my subcategories ranking higher? Am I ranking in the charts better over there. Should I move this around? Did my show content shift now that I really gotten it going? And I'm getting more on a weekly pace, getting to what Tom and I would call an established podcast. And an established podcast is one that is posting regularly every single week, consistently and constantly, and has done that for six months or more and 25 episodes plus, and you establish yourself. And that's really where we get into this place where you can start to see a trend of it occurring and seeing where do I belong now you can make an adjustment. I like to do it at the start of a year. It's just my thing at the new year. It makes sense. At the start of every new year, I check my podcast listing, I check my categories, I check my bio, and I just update those things on a regular basis. And the category just put it into your circulation of things that you're gonna just double check at the beginning of every year and every year that you do your show?

I think that's good advice. I think. One last thing I guess I'd like to share is just when you're a brand new podcaster, I tend to see people really obsessing over it and getting really upset, agonizing over it because, well, my show is really about this and there's no specific category for that. And yeah, I understand that it's imperfect. And not every show it's going to be obvious what category it really fits in. I see some that are really in between three different categories. Or maybe there's really no categories that are a perfect fit and you're making guess as to, well, should it go here or should it go there, or are these the right ones?

Well, I have a strategy for this. Go pick your biggest competitor in terms of either brand and or other entrepreneurs. So if you're an entrepreneur and your biggest competitor is a guru that you follow, pick wherever they are.

That's some good advice. Model other shows. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. But again, don't obsess over it. Make the best choice you can. Move on, monitor it over those first six months and like you said, Tracy, pivot. There's no problem at all.

No, it's instant. So, like it's easy to change. So not a set in stone choice that you're making there. So podcast categories, they are useful, they do help you get discovered. So pay a little bit of attention to it, make some good choices and change them if you need them.

Sounds great.

All right, well, we'll wrap this one up there. Unfortunately, this is a good subject doesn't go on and on because there's only so much to talk about with it, but hopefully you all got some great value. Remember, you can see the blog post for this episode@potatoes.com There's a feed your brand menu in the top, as well as all of our other past episodes. Feel free to check those out and we will see you next time.

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