How This Dr. Analyzes Podcast Success And Adapts To Impact More From The Business Couch With Dr. Yishai Barkhordari

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazard shares strategies, tips and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors, and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor. Now let's join Tracy as she explores how to rise above all the digital noise with the Binge factor.

Hey everyone. Welcome to the Binge Factor. I'm Tracy Hazzard and I have an interesting structural show to bring to you today. And of course it comes to us from a doctor. He is a psychologist, business adaptability coach, adaptability hacker. He's the host of the business coach with Dr. Yeeshai Yishai Barkadheri is a consultant to entrepreneurs, leaders and their businesses. His background, experience and expertise into psychology has provided him with a rare window in the human side of business. As Chief Adaptability Officer, executive Coach, and Speaker, Dr. Yi Shai leverages his deep psychological training and experience to help entrepreneurs and business leaders transform challenges and exhaustion into energy, excitement, and excellence for themselves and their business. He applies his passion for what he calls adaptability hacking to understand and harness the psychology and unique way that humans adapt to survive and thrive. To create simple, applicable tools to increase your ability to adapt in virtually any situation. What if you could effortlessly sense what is incoming and adaptation rapidly? Doesn't that sound like what we need in our podcast? We need to be able to adapt rapidly. So that's why I'm so excited to have him today. Dr. Gishai has a really interesting structure to show. It's comprised of three components. Three days a week that he does a show, and they flow through and relate to each other. So I wanted to bring that to you because, you know, so often we get the same structure again and again and again, and this one's very different in the way that it flows. He's also a podcast listener and he's taken that to heart as he's created that show that he wanted, the environment that he wanted to create so that he could have the effect that he wanted and the impact that he wanted overall in terms of bringing this adaptability hacking and this idea into the mainstream, into our brains, into our thought processes. So we're looking at what we might be able to do with that and that Dr. Yishai might be our guide for that. So let's listen to how the business couch got developed and how it came to be.

Dr. Yishai thank you for joining me today. Whose couch today, I think, is the big question. Right. So I'm happy to have you on my couch today because we will get into the psychoanalysis of your show and what its binge factor is. But first, tell me what made you want to start a podcast.

So there are a couple of really important, big things for me. One of them is being able to reach more people, and I really like to talk about. So by day, I'm a licensed psychologist, and for me, the podcast is actually a little bit different and separate from the psychology practice stuff. So I know we're talking about psychoanalyzing. We're not going to do actual psychoanalyzing.

No, we're not. Really. I'm not licensed.

Yeah. And so that's one of my disclaimers, actually, on the podcast. I want to say that here, that anything I say is really not in the context of me being your psychologist, either you, Tracy, or the audience. Right. So it's really important to be aware of that. And at the same time, one of the things that I found, one of the things that I really found that was so important to me was that in so many of the sessions, the patients that I have that I do work with, they talk about work, they talk about the issues they have at work with leadership in so many different ways. And what often comes out is that they really struggle to have their voice heard, and they struggle to get the leadership to really pay attention to them. And so some of what I've done with my patients is help them to do what I call managing upwards, which is to help them learn how to communicate in a way that gets their needs addressed, and also is really great for the company. It's great for the business. It's good for the leader that they're working under. And I did this a bunch of times. And then I said to myself, okay, I could do this with thousands of people and that'll take a lifetime to do, and the impact is going to slowly trickle upwards. Or I could start at the top. And what happens when I start at the top? The impact can trickle down across the entire organization. So I said, what if I can not just move upwards, which is also from the therapy perspective. I don't want to make that my mission. It's about what the patient needs. And so I really don't want to do that. But I can have my own mission and approach and address that mission, which is to help everybody who's an entrepreneur or leader learn how to be more adaptive, how to really be able to make more win wins for themselves, their company, but also for all the people who are in it. There is absolutely a way to do that. And that's like what I'm so passionate about. And I figured this is the way.

To do it well, because it is an interesting choice for someone who's dealing with people individually to then go and have a show on business. Right. And yours is called the business couch. So you decided that that work relationship was really important to address at first. So when you were thinking about your show, did you listen to lots of other shows, do some research and think about what you wanted it to look like?

Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. So, first of all, I'm actually an avid podcast listener. I had, I think, about an hour long commute each way. And so I would listen to five, six, seven podcasts. I actually, because I like to joke that it's because I'm a psychologist, I trained my brain to listen on two times speed. And so I listened to everything twice as quickly. And so I was listening to about four hours of podcasts just during my commute times every day, back and forth. Obviously, since COVID commute times have gone down, podcast listening has gone down a bit. But I also have really carved out time intentionally. I take 30, 40 minutes just to listen. So there are so many shows that I listened to on entrepreneurship, on leadership, on podcasting. I mean, I also really am personally very interested in what happens at work. I'm interested in the human element of it. I'm also deeply interested in entrepreneurship and leadership. I started and launched my own company, which is also connected in some ways with podcast, and a lot of that is about creating that kind of impact. So I listened to tons of shows. And what's really interesting is I ended up networking with a bunch of entrepreneurs who also have podcasts who were telling me about the podcasting they were doing. And so being in that group made it so much more accessible to me.

That's great. So you decided to dive right in and do this. What kind of hiccups happened to you along the way? Because you know there were some, right?

Oh, absolutely. I actually had a lot of hiccups. So at the very beginning I said, okay, I'm going to do a podcast. And then the question was, what are you going to do? Right. That was one question that you kind of asked me. And I am an over engineer. So I like to say when I was a kid, if you asked me what I wanted to do, I would say I want to be an inventor. And I was constantly coming up with ideas of things to invent. And so when I thought about creating the podcast, I was like, well, I don't want it to be too narrow and I don't want it to be too broad and I want it to be able to fit in. And at the time, it's not like I figured out everything that I wanted to do with the company that I started with the business that I'm running. Separate from being a psychologist, I didn't have all of that figured out. I just had some vague ideas and I was kind of navigating myself along the way. But that to me became a really challenging process. And so one of the really wonderful entrepreneurs, Mary Teresa Tringali, she said to me, look, you need to set a deadline, you need to make a plan, and if you don't do that, you're never getting launched. So she pushed me, which I deeply appreciate her for, and she said, when are you going to get it done and what do you need to do and tell me next week when we talk? And I said, you know, I started like freaking out. I'm like, I guess, okay, fine. And then I spent probably about 20 hours engineering my podcast and I really did over engineer it.

Well, you have a complex show and I want to touch on that because you have a show that is basically in three parts. And so you do two interviews and then a sort of a topic based show that is based on what you heard or wanted to explore further from the interview. So interesting structure. So you have a, you call it Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday structure. And so tell me about why you decided on that.

Yeah, so there are a couple of considerations. One is that at the time that I was thinking about starting my podcast, there were so, so many podcasts that were coming out Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And I said to myself, I could try to compete with them because for me, as someone who is an avid podcast listener, I would open up my app and just, I would see the top three, four, five things and I would just kind of go down that list. And so I said to myself, well, if I come out on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, then I'm competing with people who are coming out Monday, Wednesday, Friday, which are the ones that I would probably listen to before my own show, which is probably saying something in some way, shape or form, at least the beginning. And so I said, let me do Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday. And then I said, let me create some kind of a theme. So I named them. And that to me was part of the process of engineering. So I called it Insight Sunday What's Insight Sunday? Insight Sunday is the interview where I get the story of the entrepreneur or leader and I dig in and we together dig in and get more insights and make connections between what is it that they are passionate about, what brought them to where they are, how did they get into that, and how is it that their brain works that allowed them to do that. And I figured, well, if we can have a great conversation like that, and I'll be honest, I draw a little bit on some of the clinical training I have, even though obviously it's the interviewing, it's the listening, but I'm not doing therapy. And I make that line, that boundary really clear that I don't go there, but I do know how to really, I got taught and trained how to listen, how to have empathy, how to be able to formulate, reformulate, kind of share that, and then also how to ask questions that are follow up and more insight oriented. So that was my Insight Sunday and then there's Story Tuesday. So one of the things about entrepreneurship and leadership is that we learn from mistakes. But who wants to talk about all the mistakes and failures they had? I mean, so many people really struggle with that. It's not an easy thing to do. And I also thought to myself, well, if the first question to them is, hi, nice to meet you, tell me about some massive failure you had, right? You don't have a rapport yet.

Forget about it. But if it's something that we can immediately, at least first have a conversation, we get more insight. I really listen to them, I try to understand them. I also try to get them to understand parts of themselves that are really meaningful, interesting, useful, how they think, how they solve problems, how they approach things, right? And so they're gaining a lot out of that experience. Then when I say, can we talk about lessons you've learned? They feel more open to it. And so that became my story Tuesday. And I called it Story Tuesday. And I talk about learning from, I call it hard learned wisdom, learning from challenges. You know, some people use the words mistake and failure. I think about also if I, if I start or lead with that, that sounds very different than saying, look, we all have learning experiences. Do you mind sharing some of your most impactful.

And very often you find that story that you want to talk about somewhere during the interview that you're doing it. So you'll. And what I really like about that, and this is something that, you know, you're an expert in how the brain works. Open looping, right? So you're open looping that, whether you're doing it purposefully or you just accidentally said, oh, that's the story I want to tell later. Or that's the story we want to hear more of later. You're open looping us so that we have to tune in to the second episode.

Yeah, I really love to do that. I mean, so one thing that happens is as we're talking about their thought process and how they deal with challenges, challenges come up. And in my brain I'm like, wait. But that's for story Tuesday. So, like, in my brain I'm like, wait, we're have to wait till then. I also have to wait for us to get to that.

So you're creating this. I can't wait.

Yeah, I mean, I'm putting a pin in it for me, for the audience. Yeah. And for them as well. Right. And hopefully also. And I focus a lot on the guest because if our conversation can be really engaging for me and for the guest, then it's going to be engaging for the audience. For you listening, it's going to be so much more meaningful than if I'm just so focused on something else or I'm kind of missing what's happening. So if I can pull them in and say, hey, you're gaining a lot of insights. Let's put a pin in this and get some more insights in it on Tuesday, then they're really looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to it. The audience is looking forward to it. And again, some of that comes back to I know I was sharing with you. I think that it's so much more meaningful to create win, win, win. And you can create the win, win, win. I just talked about it. Win for me, win for the audience, win for the guest. And just being intentional now.

So then how do you decide what that topic's going to be when you go to Thursday?

So that's interesting. So coming back to the question you're asking earlier about struggles. So there are two major struggles I had. One is at some point, I actually almost ran out of interviews. I ran out of people to interview. And then I started kind of freaking out and reaching out and like there was like a mad dash. And now, now you're way ahead because you told me you're four months overbooked. Yeah, I'm overbooked. Actually, I can't even take anyone for two months. And thankfully, that's very much the case because my wife and I are expecting towards the end of this month, like in a couple of weeks. I mean, towards the End of May. So by the time that happens, I'm going to need to carve out time. I'm taking parental leaves. So that's all really exciting. But one of the other challenges that I had was that what am I going to do on my Thursday episodes, like Thrive Thursday? So I had started with a bunch of topics that I wanted, and then I ran out of those. And then at some point, I actually have outlined a bunch of books that I'm in the process of putting together writing, and I said, what if I create an outline and then different episodes actually cover different topics from the book? So that was a lot of fun and that's a real passion of mine and I'm really excited about it. I like to double dip as much as possible. And so for me, that was part of it. And then recently what I started doing is I started asking my guest, what's one question that you would want to have a psychologist, an adaptability expert, an adaptability coach, an executive coach, or a consultant answer? And so they say that question on Story Tuesday. And then I tell them, by the way, your question is going to get answered on Thrive Thursday. So I mean, talk about open looping again. But it's also a win, win, win again. It's they get to ask a question to me, so they get to have more from me, and I get to have content material to put out and it's relevant to the interview. So all of this is now linked in a chain of the three episodes. And in addition to that, anybody in the audience who's experienced some of those things, which people who are going to be listening to the end, oftentimes they're resonating with at least part of it. So that's also going to be really relevant for them. So that's what I've been doing lately, and I've been absolutely loving that. But there was a time where I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, I was like, scrabbling. I'm like typing on LinkedIn and Instagram. Hey, who has questions? I'm like asking, you know, my entrepreneur friends, tell me a question you have. I would love to answer that. Or, you know, I got invited to a bunch of other podcasts and I was like, oh, that's a good topic. Maybe I'll talk about the same topic on my own podcast. You know, maybe cross promote and that kind of stuff. But there was a time that I was like, I have no idea what I'm going to do, right? And so for me, being under that pressure actually pushed me to think about, well, how can I create more win, win, wins?

Well, you know, I think this is really fabulous. I want to jump into our five things because I want to ask you a few questions as a follow up to that within those five things. So. So you obviously had a problem getting guests at one point. So how did you resolve that? How are you able to get such great guests now?

Yeah, so there are a couple of things that I think are really important. One, I had said it earlier, to me, the experience that my guest has is incredibly important to me. I treasure that in a way that I think I put it almost above anything else. Because if my guest has a terrible experience, who are they going to tell to be a guest? If I ask them, can you recommend someone to me, who are they going to put in front of me?

Nobody that they want, right? Nobody they're happy with.

So lucky for you, you got recommended by one of your guests to my show. So obviously it's working for you.

You know, some people think about it as networking. I think about it as relationship building and caring and again, creating win, win, wins. So the time that I started, when I initially started, I reached out to all the people I knew and I ran out of those kind of moderately quickly within a couple of months. And then I started asking those people, who do you know? And of course, if you go back, my earliest episodes are not my best episodes. I mean, I know it's true of most or many podcasts, it's not my best work. If I go back and listen to it, I am cringing. I mean, I actually listen to all my episodes. I really love to, because I'm trying to learn more and I'm trying to also think where were areas that I could have asked more questions or follow up or do better or be better. So that, to me, I think is really, really important. And as I worked on cultivating that experience, and I'm going to say I think about that from A to Z, from touchpoint A. So the first time I get connected with someone, I'm thinking about how can I make this process as clear, as easy as, as simple. I put all these systems in place. I actually some of those entrepreneur friends I told you about who shared with me that they had podcasts, I started putting together all these systems and they were like, whoa, how'd you do this? Can you right. They were like, can you help? Can you share this? Right. I told you I over engineered my podcast. I was not joking when I said that I'm also going to say, though, that each of those people gave me so much advice, so much help. They were so generous with sharing things like everything from a Google form that they use, disclaimers that they had or didn't have to sample emails that they would send out either to ask for guests or to follow up with guests. I got all these templates and I got all this really wonderful stuff that they were so meaningful. It's super accelerated for me. I think what could have been a process of trying something and then either asking and having no idea if it works, or to continue to tweak it and continue to tweak it. So I really, really deeply appreciate. I'm going to name drop a couple other people because they're so important and meaningful to me. Eric Muzik, who also is the host of the subscription box show. He is so wonderful, was so helpful for me in some of my acceleration process. And then also Amber Fuhrman, who also is the host of More Than Corporate. She also was incredibly helpful. They were both really generous and are just wonderful people who are part of, for me, this, I would say network, but it's not a network. They're relationships. They're people I care about that care about, and it's just so meaningful. They helped me out so much with those things. And then as I worked out some of my own kinks, I kind of shared that with them. And it's a process, kind of a virtuous process of raising each other up. And again, that's going to come back to the win, win, win, right? Our podcast.

We got something going on here. We got a lot of wins going on. Well, you know, I think it's a win, win, win for the audience as well. And that's, you know, creating great content is a great way to increase listeners. And so the second question that I usually ask everyone is about how you go about increasing listeners, you know, know, and making great content is one thing, but what else do you do to sort of attract a good audience?

Yeah, that's a great question. I will let you know when I find out.

You're not alone. That's kind of a difficult answer here.

Part of it, it's a little bit of a joke in a sense, but also I'm working on that. I think it's a big challenge. There's also tremendous amount of competition and it's really challenging with the competition. So I'll share with you what I'm doing. This is my own approach and it has been. So I mentioned to you how I treat my guests, how important it is for me to, to honor my guests and their time, to treat them as if they're royalty because they are just such important people and they're sharing and we are co creating something really meaningful. So for me, I actually focus on sharing with them and I don't think about it as converting them into listeners, but I do think about it as if they got something out of the podcast. I really like to, at the end of the podcast say, hey, can we chit chat a little bit and what else are you looking for? What could be helpful? And then I'll send them an email, a few episodes if it is relevant. Right. I try really hard. I'm not going to shove anything down anybody's throat. Absolutely not. But if they have questions or challenges or they ask something, or something comes up, I'll say, you know, I actually did an episode on that and do you want me to send you the link? And sometimes they say yes, and if they do, great, I'll send them a link. And sometimes they say, you know, it's fine, maybe I'll go find it myself and say, okay, great, whatever works for you. So for me, part of it is I think about it as a lot of it is more on the back end. Meaning if people have a meaningful experience being on my podcast, then they're going to tell other people about it and they are more likely themselves to listen. And especially those guests who are really wonderful guests who like to prepare. And the more I hear from them, they had a good experience preparing, they had a good experience listening, they had a good experience being on the podcast, the more I know that the work I'm doing is worth sharing. And I think about it as growing an audience is a long term play, not a short one. And it's really important to grow the right audience, the audience that serves the purpose of the podcast. Right. So it's possible that, I don't know, hire someone to do my social media and spam it out or spend a lot of money on ads. And there are a lot of different ways of getting in front of people. And again, I think there's a difference and it's important to differentiate. And what I've been working on is really differentiating between trying to grab more people's attention versus when someone, I have their attention for them to say to themselves and experience it as, this was so cool, it was so meaningful. If the podcast is binge worthy, they say word of mouth is the best kind of marketing, the best kind of advertising. And that's kind of the angle that I'm playing. And how is that going to work? I don't know. Ask me in two years, I'll tell you.

Well, we'll see. You know, it. It does have that. It has that feature of. I could see that maybe some of your guests become your clients, that they become listeners, they're looking for more, they refer other people to you. So I actually do think you're building that kind of, that kind of model of podcast, which is, you know, more of a business referral style podcast. And, you know, sometimes I refer myself in there, but that's how that works. Right. So producing like a pro, that's what I ask as my third question. And in your case, because you have this structure of multiple interview, you know, multiple pieces of your interview, I want our audience to understand how you're structuring that. Are you actually recording at two different times? Do you record all at once? What are you doing in that production process that is giving you the ability to carve it into multiple pieces?

I mentioned that I over engineered my podcast and I really don't joke about that. I tried to make it really simple. So I'm a one man team with the exception of I hired an editor to do editing because it was taking me 5 to 10 hours a week on top of all the production. And it was just like way, way too unreasonable, especially given that I work pretty much full time and you're about.

To have a baby, so.

Right, exactly.

Believe me, I started my podcast with a baby, so. I know.

Yeah. So the first thing I did was I structured my interviews to be an hour long and I divided that into two segments. And my segments are really well defined. So part of that was I created a document. I had an intro and I have a sponsors segment and then I have some sample questions. Though for me it's really a lot more important to stick with the purpose of the podcast and the relationships that I'm building and the experience of the guest than it is to stick with just the questions. And then I have a couch round and then I do a wrap up where I summarize and I thank the guest. And then at the end of that, if it's the Sunday, if it's the first segment, I say, can't wait to continue our conversation for story Tuesday. And then I give it about a 10 second break. Right. So either I pause the recording or we just kind of let it go and I'll drink some water, I'll take a break. Sometimes if we pause it we'll chat really briefly for a minute or two and then we jump right into the second segment. So in one hour, I get to actually get both interview pieces all at once. And I did that with intention because I wanted to release three times a week and I did not want to record 2 hour long interviews a week. And especially for the kind of content, it's a little bit more long form. And I also wanted it to be as accessible as possible because hour long interviews are way harder to listen to than something that is 25, 30, 35 minutes.

And see, that's because you're a listener, that you really know that because there are those out there that go, oh no. Hour and a half long podcast. I'm just going to model Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan's podcast is set for advertisers, not for what's best for the listener. So, you know, keeping with that. So good choices on your part. So then, do you record your topic almost immediately or do you have them already prerecorded and you decide which one's going to be the right one? When do you do the topic?

Yeah. So I'm going to share with you some personal insight into me. I have long been a procrastinator and it never really got in my way. With podcasting that became pretty bad. It was pretty rough.

We discovered our procrastination points really quickly, don't we?

Yes, yes, we really do. With the interviews, especially when I was struggling to get them and I was encountering some of my own challenges with reaching out to founders, to CEOs or CxOs, and to leadership, to entrepreneurs and successful entrepreneurs, I encountered a lot of my own issues as well as with trying to get some of those things done. Now I have had so many people who are interested in being on my podcast and who have been referring more people that I actually got ahead. I'm now close to four months ahead, three months ahead, and I have more podcast interviews already booked. I'm booked all the way to August and I have enough content through the end of September. And so by the time August rolls around, I'm going to have even more. And I've been telling people, please circle around in two months. And that's the time I can even think about considering it because by then I'll be two months ahead still. Or a month and a half. A month and a half. A month ahead with the solo episodes. So I mentioned to you there's a time where I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. So it was always just kind of like last minute. It's Sunday or Monday and I'm trying to put together this episode stuff for Thursday. And I would just be. I mean, there were times I was like, up until 7, 8, 9pm and this is like before I'd even like, maybe had dinner, spent any time with my wife. And that was a time where I was like, okay, there's something very wrong. This is not okay. I need to make a shift or change in that. That's part of what prompted me to start asking my guests for questions. That's helpful for them, that's helpful for the audience, and that's also helpful for me to have a topic.

Well, it also helps hold you accountable. So if they're expecting that, then you're going to do it. So you helped create almost, you know, a push for you on the procrastination side.

Yeah. And I had a really honest and frank conversation with my editor. I said, okay, tell me about what the limits are. Tell me about when I need to get that in. And if you tell me that as an earlier time, I will get it done. But if you tell me it's a later time, FYI, you're just probably consistently going to get it later. And so, yeah, so I was thinking about how to try to get that sorted out. So for me, I have really been trying to either get it done on Sunday or Monday by the afternoon. So that when I'm done with work on Monday, I'm really kind of done.

And it's in and it's ready. That's great.

And it's in and it's in production. So, you know, it's still a journey. I won't pretend that it's all sorted out now. It's. It's still a mess sometimes.

That's right. We're all making progress every day. The next question I usually ask is about encouraging engagement, but I'd love to really look at it from the perspective of, you know, you've gone. You go sometimes go four months before the guest hears back from you again. Right. They get the feedback of it. So how are you encouraging engagement with your guests to make sure that they're sharing it, that they're. They're reengaged with you again at this point, four months later.

Yeah, great question. One of the things I've been focusing on a little bit more lately because I don't need to worry as much about getting great guests. And that is something I feel, by the way, at this point, so relieved by. It really takes a Big load off for me. And it takes a lot of time and energy off of my plate. I started thinking, okay, let me dedicate more of that time and energy to cultivating that relationship. How can I try to create more touch points? Again, I'm going to raise my hand and say, I don't think I'm perfect at this. And I can certainly use some guidance. And if anyone has tips out there, feel free comment or message me. And I'm certainly open to hearing those tips and feedback and different thoughts that you might have. So a few of the things that I do, one is I make sure to produce artwork for their episodes, and I send the artwork with them. And then another thing that I'm doing is now that I'm producing the solo episodes, I also can send them an indication. Oh, by the way, your episode, the episode where I'm answering your question is coming up here. It is. And so being able to send that along with them also continues to maintain that engagement. I am now thinking about, I don't want to have four months between now and when I next, you know, kind of connect with them, interact with them. And so I think one of the things that I can do is once I have it kind of scheduled and I'm clear and I'm. Oddly enough, while I'm a procrastinator, I also tend to be really organized. So I actually.

Obviously, you're engineering all of this, right?

I'm trying to engineer all of it. So knowing when their episodes are coming out, if I can tell them a couple of months in advance and say, here's what's done, here's what's in production, and here's what you can expect. And by the way, I'm really maybe make a comment or two, do some research, think about the question. Because I love thinking about the questions. I'll tell you, when I get off the interview, my brain is ringing with the question of that person that I just interviewed. And so I'm really thinking about it. I mean, that's probably an ideal time to actually record the episode.

That's what I was going to say. I was like, that would be the best time.

Right. I also really like to research it. So I really like, in some ways to kind of model some of the way that I do my Thrive Thursday episodes off of things like Jim Collins and other researchers. And so I like to pull in research. I like to think about the tips and tactics. And for me, there's actually kind of a marinating process. I think it turns out better that way. When I plan that out, I think the episodes for me that are better are the planned out episodes where I've dug in, done some research, you know, really kind of looked up different research studies and, and tips and tactics and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, there's a tension there. What I try to do is to maybe share a nugget or two in that between those four months to say, hey, I'm looking at your question. I've been thinking about your question. There's some things I think are really cool. Here's an article that I'm probably going to be incorporating in some way. And just so you know, I have like five or six other things I'm really looking forward to putting in there. So it's almost like, you know, kind of like an appetizer. Because, you know, I don't know if you've been to a restaurant, like, it's taking them a while to bring your food, so they're like, okay, here's a free, you know, little appetizer.

Let me give you a taste of.

Something and give you a taste, right? So I'm still trying to think about that. I think it's important to create more touch points. One other thing that I've been trying to do is to let them know I really enjoy the conversations. And I still think about the conversations. So many of the podcast conversations that I have, my brain is again, so just marinating. I'm really thinking about it and I'm thinking, how would I address that? Or what would I do differently? Do I have some thought? And so being able to take that and turn that into, hey, you know, this part of our conversation was really interesting to me, and I had this thought and I would love to touch base or just kind of hang out. You have 15 minutes at some point just to touch base about this. So trying to think of ways to maintain that connection in the meantime and.

Also afterwards, I think that's so, so important overall, especially if there's such a gold mine in terms of future networking, future relationships, and the growth of, of your entire business as a whole. So the last thing I ask is how you monetize your show. And in a case here, you're not taking ads for anything but your own business. So you're not monetizing in that way. But have you seen it turn into more, more business? Have you seen more clients because of doing your show?

Yeah, great question. So I do have a sponsorship segment, and I'm thinking about that also as market testing. So I kind of put things out there. And again, I ask, how does that sound? What's the feedback on that? I'll ask my podcast guests. When I hear from audience members, I'll ask them. One of the things I am aware of is that my model is a decention model and is a very premium product. So for me, the life cycle of getting that is actually longer. I have seen a lot more interest, I've seen a lot more investment, and it has started to yield some dividends. So I've started to get invited to speak at various conferences and places. And some of that, obviously, is changing. I've certainly got a lot more digital opportunities to speak, not just on podcasts, but at conferences and whatnot. So some of that's really starting to materialize. And it's not just coaching, it's also speaking, which then is also more opportunities to generate, you know, kind of leads, warm leads for clients. So as of yet, it's been under development, and it's taking a longer time perhaps, than I would hope.

You know, I don't think just if I can comment that, that 100 episodes, you know, you're just over 100 that have aired, obviously recorded a lot more, but just over 100 that had air. That's not that long, to be honest with you. This is about that tipping point where you'll start to figure out what's working and what's not. It's taking you this long to build authority, and you've hit that metric of authority at this stage.

Yeah, thank you. I really appreciate that. It's something I'm trying to gain perspective on. You know, one of the conversations I had with somebody who did consulting for 17 years, they said to me, a business is like a plant. You can give it water and sunlight and all the nutrients, but you can't make it grow any faster than it's going to grow. And if you try to make it grow faster by putting more of those things, you can actually harm it. And so I've been trying really hard to have that patience.

And.

And like you said, I think I'm finding myself at a tipping point, which is really exciting for me. Something I heard, and I don't think it really sank in at the very beginning, was that podcasting is a long play. It's kind of like starting a blog. You're not going to, within six months of creating a website and starting a blog, see everything explode. It's just not going to happen. I mean, if it does, it's incredibly rare, and there's something happening that is Perhaps very different. It just takes its time.

Yeah, it does. So we just finished our round. You have one you call couch rounds and you go through that and you ask questions of your guests. What do you do with those questions afterwards? Do you have something? Are you making social posts? Or what are you doing with those questions? Are you researching something?

That's a great question. I intentionally chose those questions for market research for myself. So as you mentioned, my ideal guest, my ideal audience member, and my ideal client are all pretty much in alignment. And to me that that's part of the over engineering the podcast. So when I'm asking them questions like what kind of content do you consume and how do you like to consume it? When I'm asking them, how can people reach out to you? And what kind of outreach is welcome versus unwelcome? What I am doing is I'm learning. How do I do this better? How do I reach those people? Where are these people hanging out? What are they doing? What are they interested in? So for me, it's a lot of market research and I have not done this yet, though I'm going to raise my hand and say, you know, working full time and producing a podcast mostly on my own is taking up quite a bit of time. I have had multiple times this thought process of what if I go and listen to these sections and just make really quick answers and kind of code them and then collect them like data or something else that I'm thinking about doing at some point. Maybe for one of the other bigger episodes, maybe like not the hundredth, but the 200th episode or the 150th episode. Let's do a compilation of, you know, 15 entrepreneurs answer to this one question. So I mean, it's going to take a lot of.

That's a great idea. People love compilation shows. It helps when I find your show and I'm new to it when I have a compilation one. Whether it's you telling me what your, you know, what your favorite interviews were in the last year, you know, it gives me a place to start rather than start at your very beginning. And as you put it, some of us really cringe at our very first episode, no matter what. So we can give them another touch point that seems like a, you know, a starting point, then they'll take it.

Yeah, so some of it's about figuring out how and when and, you know, kind of getting that to happen for me at this time. One other thing that I've been doing is noticing patterns that show up among the questions. So One of the questions I really like to ask is, does growth happen in quantum leaps or small increments? And I really like noticing that so many entrepreneurs are saying it's small increments, and maybe the small increments turn into quantum leaps or maybe it's. You think it's a quantum. But really there's a lot of small increments in it. And so just being able to notice some of those things, it really kind of helps me then speak to these kinds of people when I want to address that. So it becomes something I can talk about in a social media post. Right.

Or an article.

Or an article.

That's right. In the future. Well, you know, this is interesting because I wrote a column for Inc. Magazine for four years, and anytime I wrote about the brain, the articles blew up like they would get. They would have such tremendous search. So you've got all these books behind you that have all different names about brain. They've got pictures of brain. You've got this going for you. Are you really thinking about how the brain works when you're asking questions of your guests to kind of draw them along? Is there some of your inherent psychoanalysis training that is going into how you ask your questions?

Yeah. Great question. I'm going to differentiate two things. There's my clinical brain, which is like diagnosing and thinking about the therapy side of things. And I'm going to tell you really bluntly, really upfront, that brain only belongs at work. And it's really important to cordon that off. And to me, that's really important for boundary purposes. Right. If I didn't put that brain only at work, then I would be doing things that are unethical, potentially illegal, and certainly potentially damaging. So for me, I turn my clinical brain off. I'll tell you, the brain that stays on, the brain that stays on is the insight brain, like you said, the brain that thinks about our brains. So one of the things I talk a lot about is adaptability and all of the things that we're talking about on the podcast, and this is something I didn't realize at the beginning to kind of come back to one of those questions of, you know, some of the hiccups along the way. I wanted it to be broad enough but narrow enough. One of the things I'm really zeroing in on is the area that I'm really talking about is adaptability, which is our brain. It's designed to help us identify when we need to generate new awareness, new analysis, new action. It's designed to do that so basically, the entire podcast answers this question. For entrepreneurs and leaders, how do you tap into the brain, the part of your brain that is designed to help you adapt? And that's in your thought process, it's in your development, it's in what parts of you and your thinking have allowed you to succeed. It's in the mistakes and how you address them. It's in the failures. It's all of these things. And so, yes, my brain is constantly thinking about that. And it's not that my brain doesn't think about that in the clinical work that I do. And it's not that I can't draw pieces of that. It's that my clinical brain is the therapist diagnosing brain. That is a healthcare provider. And that healthcare provider does not belong at the podcast. Right. The part of me that belongs at the podcast is the part of me that's always been incredibly curious, that's always really struggled with adaptability or did from the time I was really young kid. And finally I felt like I kind of unlocked something, that I was like, oh, gosh, the world really needs to figure this out. We all need to share this with the world, and how can we do that?

Really interesting. So are you thinking about adapting your show now that you've hit 100 episodes and you're, you know, what's next? Are you thinking about making those adjustments and adapting yourself?

That's a great question. I've been thinking about it a lot, and I've also been thinking about timing and how I'm going to do that when, you know, a little one is coming.

And so I'm going to say from mother of three, not all @ once, of course, but, you know, but yeah, simplification might be your next adaptation out of.

Necessity. One thing I've thought a lot about and I've received a little bit of feedback on it, is that my intro can be a little bit long and thinking about how to adapt that to make it shorter, sweeter, more to the point, and more specific, but also kind of drawing people in. That's work. It's working on my podcast, not in my podcast. Right. Right now I'm doing a lot of working in my podcast. I talk about this. One of the questions that's the couch round question, is, what's more important working in your business or on your business? So you can answer that in your podcast or on your podcast. So I appreciate you kind of prompting me for that. And it is something I've thought about and I've been getting a few different pieces of feedback. And so carving out time to work on my podcast is, yes, really important to me. And I've had a few things marinating and it's really about when am I going to be able to or choose to really carve that time, make that happen and then kick that.

Off. You know, I think it's really interesting that you said working on or in. I'm a fan of actually doing both and I think that's what's serving you really well. So I'm going to head into your binge factor by saying that. So I, I think that when we work on our podcast and in our podcast when we're doing both, it helps us really discover what's working, what's really serving the listener. And because you're a listener as well, you've tapped into that. So from my perspective on, and having listened to hundreds and hundreds, probably thousands of shows at this point, you know, there is a distinct, I'm going to say unlocking, to use that term that you just used, unlocking of a process of thinking that you're guiding your listener through your shows and through all three of those shows in a row, that is really helping me take that deeper dive, which we don't get enough from podcasts today. So it may have been what you felt was missing from the shows, that you were curious and you wanted more and you didn't get it, but you've built that into your show and you've also done it with this great open looping other tactics that are really serving you well in flowing us through all three of those episodes to really getting more from you and getting that deeper dive into the person, the topic, the story, the adaptation that we might be learning about what we can do in our own lives, that's happening right there in your show. So that's the thing you don't want to mess with. That's your binge.

Factor. Yeah. Thank you. I really appreciate that. That's really interesting. My brain is going to be kind of picking that over for a.

While. I'm sure it will. I'm sure it will. But, you know, so when we're thinking about pivoting and adapting, right, this is a time we want to not mess with that core thing. And sometimes we do and we don't realize it because we pick apart little pieces that we want to take off because we're thinking only tactically. But when we're in our business and in our podcast and on our podcast, and we're looking at it from both perspectives, and when you go back and re listen, which I know you do. You listen to your episodes, which is really not. A lot of podcasters do it. I'm just going to just be frank with you that they just don't do it. It's one of the first things they give up when they're busy. But doing that is still keeping you in that listener mode. Did I achieve what I wanted to.

Achieve? Yeah. It's something that also is a great reminder. I appreciate that you said it's one of the first things that goes out the window when someone gets busy is they stop listening to their podcast. And that's really part of working on my podcast. If I didn't listen to myself, I wouldn't be able to differentiate the questions that I'm asking from the ones that I wished I would have asked. And then I won't get better at doing that the next time or being more intentional the next time. Or there's another part of it which is especially when I was just getting started, and I know I'm a hundred episodes in, but it's three a week, so we're talking about like, you know, a little bit over half a year now, whereas some that do once a week, it takes them two years to get to a hundred episodes. Right. I'm still a bit earlier and it's easy for me to say, oh, I don't really know how to podcast. I don't know what I am or how I do as a podcaster. And so listening to my episodes every time my brain says, oh, you did so well with that, or that was a great question to ask. Or I'm so glad that you did this research so that you can make this point on your Thrive Thursday episode about this particular topic because it really helped out. Or I'm so glad that you told this story. And there's oftentimes it's like, that's a great story. You could have probably done it a little bit different, maybe pulled out a piece of it, drawn a little more anticipation. But it also helps me update my brain and feel better, more confident as a podcaster and update my brain on. I'm not the same podcaster that I was back in August when I.

Was releasing and that's the case. So as you know, and I mentioned to you because we put off our interview because I couldn't listen to enough of your episodes because you have this three format that I wanted to make sure that I got enough in, but I really just barely skimmed your first ones because. And normally I do, I go to the beginning and then I go to the end. But I went straight to the end because I could hear a distinct difference in growth. And I realized that that's probably more of the case, that I was going to be better served if I listened to more of your more recent episodes than I did from the earlier ones. So showing that growth in a short period of time because you are doing three episodes a week is doing you a credit. Because that audience cares about that. They say this person's growing, they care about their show, they're changing it. I'm going to keep tuning in because I'm going to go along the ride with.

Them. Yeah. Thank you. And again, to the point that you were saying, I really credit listening to my episodes for that. It's hard to listen and.

Cringe. Yeah, it.

Is. It's hard. And that's also how you improve. You really need to get that.

Feedback. So you ask questions in a unique way, and I want to mention that before I ask you to give some advice to other podcasters out there, but you ask questions in a way where you have kind of a long setup to the question and then you have a long period of time where you don't interrupt and then you might ask a follow up or whatever, but then you do a sort of longer setup again. And it's almost like at the very beginning of your episode, sometimes you're sort of like, we're going to talk about this, this and this. Go. I mean, that's an unusual tact. I haven't seen that done very often. What made you decide that that was maybe your style of it? Because I'm sure you ask much more pointed questions in your clinical.

Life. Yeah, it's a great question. So the goal of the podcast is to allow the guest to explore and share their insights. And so my long form questions are usually part. There's one part that's kind of recapping or encapsulating what they just said in a kind of short, concise way. So I'm kind of abstracting from their experience and drawing out a generalization or an insight. And so I'm labeling or naming that. That's like part one. Part two is I'll usually add in some piece of research or a thought process. So then I'm adding a piece of myself, my own thinking or feedback. So I slip that in, slip it in. I add that to what, to what I've encapsulated that they've kind of shared. And then usually the question follows by saying, can we dig in a little more. And so I developed that process. Honestly, it wasn't something I did at the beginning. And I'll be really direct with you. It wasn't a conscious, like, oh, you know, I really should do these three things in these three steps. I'm now, on reflection, really thinking about that. One thing that I did notice is that when I encapsulate, when I really listen to the guests and I encapsulate what they're talking about and I give that back to them, that they start to gain more insights and they want to say.

More. Right. Yeah, I can see that. I can hear that happening with your guests. It's almost a gentle guiding, too, because you're not pushing them or switching gears and asking a different question, but you're sort of guiding them back onto the adaptability topic, or you're guiding them back to where you feel you could serve your audience.

Best. Yeah. And where I think that they would also gain something because they can talk all day long about things. Is that really going to help them? I mean, I've had some guests who come on and they're just kind of spouting and spouting and spouting, and you know, that what they are sharing can be really valuable, can be valuable for the guests. I've had a few of my guests say, you know, give me a challenging question. Give me something more. You know, I can spout this stuff all day, but this is just kind of like the way my brain's constantly thinking, you know, don't. Don't just let me be a water fountain for you. Right. And so that's where, for me, I think it was really important to add in that bit where I'm sharing my own insight or a piece of research, or I'm connecting it to something, and then I'm asking them to consider that and dig a little deeper into their own insight. Let's do some of this work. Let's talk about and shift some of your way of thinking and not about trying to coach you. It's just like, let's take this, add one or two other ingredients and see what happens. Let's cook. Let's cook together. This is not just me sitting around watching you, you know, throw all the ingredients you already have in a pot. I'm not watching you make, you know, wagy Mac or.

Something. And you're not just giving them a platform to speak. You're creating that relationship that you were talking about before to have a conversation, to explore something together and explore it on behalf of the audience to learn something as well. So, yeah, I do think that's serving you really well in your show. It obviously hasn't changed over time how you do it, but I think it's purposeful and I think you should keep doing that. It's definitely a distinct difference. So all of you listening there, you know, I always say that there's at least one thing, if not many more that I could highlight about a show. Well, Dr. Gishai's show, the one thing is listening to the way that he asked these questions or sets up his conversations is a really interesting skill to sort of think about. Can I adapt this? Could I use something like this? Can I model something similar so that I'm not just asking questions that seem kind of basic or pat and others that are way too long, where I'm just like talking about myself and then there isn't really a question there at the end. So re guide that into something. So this is definitely something to listen to. Somebody pushed you. There's been a few people you've mentioned over the course of today that pushed you into podcasting and really pushed you to really do better and really make it happen. What do you have to say to those out there that are like, maybe I think I want us to do this podcast thing. What's your advice out.

There? So seek people who are going to allow you to have those conversations, maybe the long form, let them give you some input and ask them to give you space to processor, make sense of what is it that you really want be intentional. You know, I don't necessarily think that everybody needs to have a podcast, and I don't think that every podcast is going to be the best podcast or even the best podcast it can be. And there are a lot of reasons, by the way, to have a podcast. Not all podcasting needs to be about the listeners or the number of listeners. For me, it's really about the quality of the experience for my guests and for my listeners. And I'll be very frank. I don't care if I ever have a million people who listen to me a month. It really doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is that people who do listen really gain something out of it. And the group of people who are interested are gaining something out of it. And I know that I am, and I know that my guests are. And to me, if I never got more listeners other than the people who are really gaining a lot out of it, and I hope my guests are among them, and I hope the people who hear from Them about it are among them. But if my guests don't grow or grow as fast as I want, I'm still serving my purpose. So I would invite them. I would invite you guys out there. If you're thinking about it and wondering, ask yourself what your purpose is. Are you doing it as a hobby? Well, you can do it as a hobby. Just be really clear about that. Are you doing it because you want to get out of a space? Are you doing it because you have a passion or interest? Are you doing it because you want to start a business? Are you doing it because you want to connect with certain kinds of people? Are you doing it because you want to have lots of listeners be intentional about that? And when you get clear on that, that's when, from my perspective, your adaptive brain is going to be like, okay, buddy, you know what you want. Now it's time to go get it. Right? It can be helpful for people to push you in that. And I think that's part of what my group of friends who are entrepreneurs really helped me do. They were like, okay, what do you want? What are you trying to get at? What's going to work for you? What won't work for you? Here's what we're getting out of podcasting. Do you think that would work? And the point at which I was like, yeah, I think this would be really helpful, but I don't know what I'm doing was the point at which they were like, okay, buddy. Right? And I was like, okay, yeah, my brain's telling me the same thing, so I guess I should listen to my own brain and other people around me. So that's what I would.

Say. Dr. Gishai, thank you so much for joining me today and giving us insights into the business couch and how you operate your show and why it's doing so.

Well. Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. This has been a.

Blast.

So wasn't that interesting to get sort of deep insights and the thought process of how to engineer a show, how to structure the show, how to follow through with it and make sure that it keeps going? Dr. Ikishai definitely has this sort of deep respect and understanding for the podcast as a media. Right. As a media type, as a medium for creating a voice and a message that goes out there. And he's really looking at how he can adjust that message, it, market it differently, just shift it and adapt it as he's moving forward. I look forward to seeing how his show moves into the future because, you know, over the six months that he's been doing this, and about 100 episodes that he's been doing this. You know, I can see a very clear progression from the beginning to where it settled in, to where he feels more in control of the interviews, to where he's more in control of the way he asks questions, as we discussed in the show today, sort of a concerted process for doing that, and then really the progression of really how those thrive. Thursday episodes with his topics really are not only addressing questions that his guests are asking them, but helping us sort of universally process what we heard earlier in the week, what we heard in the other two episodes. It's helping us process that through, just like he may have done as he mulled things over and he's thought through what his guest was saying and asking for and how he could give us more through that process. You know, putting this kind of effort and is not wasted. Like, this is one of the things that I want to get across to you is that, you know, sometimes we put a lot of work into our show. You know, I'm a big fan of, like, I don't want to edit. That's why I, you know, I don't want to put busy work into the things that aren't having an impact at the end of the day to you, the listeners. I want to spend my time as the host of the show doing the things that are serving you the best. And Dr. Yishai has definitely done that in his show. So he's creating the business couch with really this idea that we can sit there and we can be a part of that couch. We're an active participant in it, and how our brain is processing and working through what we're hearing and how we might apply that to our own businesses and our own lives. And he's working hard to make sure that that part is in place for us. So that is effort that is not wasted. That is effort that is very useful in creating a really, truly bingeable show at the end of the day. So congratulations, Dr. Yishai Barkadhere on the business couch, which is a fabulous show. So all of you listeners out there, be sure to check it out. It's Sunday, Tuesday, Thursdays, off days, and you might be able to get some insights into how to run your show, but also get some great insights and how you might want to adapt your lives and your business and become truly an adaptability hacker for your podcast and your business as well. So thanks everyone for listening. I'm so glad to bring you such unusual and different types of shows each time I am here on the Binge Factor because it helps me grow and it helps me learn. And I truly appreciate when guests and all of you listeners out there reach out and tell me about a great show that I should hear, a great guest that I should have on my show and hey, it's okay. Volunteer yourself. There's no harm in doing that. I'd love to hear what you're working on and what you're doing. You can do that by going to the bingefactor.com and do the Apply as a Guest section. Thanks everyone for listening. I'll be back next time with another Binge.

Factor.

You've been listening to the Binge Factor Podcast. For more information on podcasting and videocasting success tips and tactics, please go to thebingefactor.com and be sure to listen to our other show for podcasters called Feed you'd brand. If you'd like to be in interviewed on this show as well as featured in Tracy's column, please go to thebingefactor.com guest and apply.