How To Assess If Joining A Podcast Network Is Best For Your Show?

Want your podcast and videocast to be seen, heard, found and rewarded in this noisy digital world, you are not alone. Join the nonprofit community at Podcasters United and podcast industry experts Tom Hazard and Tracy Hazard as they debunk all that outdated and bad advice you've been getting from the podcast gurus and find out what actually works. Today, get ready to feed your brand with smart cut tactics proven to cast your original voice to the world.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Feed you'd brand. I'm Tom Hazard along with my co host, Tracy. For those of you watching the video, we're doing a split screen thing that's a little different than we've done in the past. We're changing it up a little bit and today we have actually, I think, a really good topic for a lot of podcasters to consider. And, you know, if you're a brand new podcaster, maybe you haven't thought of this yet, but if you've been doing this for a while, you may have been approached by a network or another. And today's topic is how to assess if joining a podcast network is best a fit for your show. Is it a fit? Is it something you should consider? Now, obviously, everybody will weigh those options and based on their own needs, desires, the specific network that's maybe inviting you to join them, or you may be soliciting a network to join them. But what we thought we would do is share some pros and cons, really, of joining a podcast network. Some things you may not have thought about that might present some challenges and provide you some more information so you can make a better, more informed decision.

Well, especially because we've actually had networks on our network. So Potatoes is a hosting platform that is syndicating out networks, not just individual shows. So we do both. And because of that, we've seen some failures, significant failures in networks that had great promise. And so we also want to share some learnings from that to you as well. So that's kind of where I want to start at, is sort of taking a kind of what is a network? Let's define that for all of you and kind of take it from that sort of elemental level. And, you know, keep in mind, like, podcasting is over a decade old for many, many people. You know, for us personally, it's seven years of podcasting and there have been networks that have popped up and disappeared over that time. The reality is, is that they should have learned some things by now and that those that are popping up should actually be better at understanding what the failures are. But it's so hidden behind the scenes that people don't understand that some of the networks that seem to be successful are actually not, and others have just disappeared and no one knows why. And so I think we could reveal a little bit of that here, Tom, which is going to help everyone get an understanding of what they should look for when they're looking for a good network. So a network is a support system. It's a community. It's a grouping of shows that come together to do something together, whether it is support each other, group, create listeners that are focused on the same audience. So they're all trying to drive listeners to all the shows on the network. They might be in a niche like sports. You know, there are lots of sports networks out there and they're attracting sports enthusiasts. So by sort of sharing everybody's show and making sure that they're publicizing the network out to sports enthusiasts, all the shows get visibility better. Like that's the idea behind it. Right. The other networks are focused on ads, right? So maybe they are all focused on making sure that they get advertisers that are all around parenting could be something like that. Right. So that's the differences is each network has its own kind of mission. Now, I want to differentiate and say iHeart is a network. Right. Spotify has a network. So the listening apps themselves are also networks because they have network shows. Wondery is a network, but it's actually owned by Spotify. So. So we have these kind of differentiations as to, you know, what they are, but their focus is more like a media network, a media corporation, where their goal is to design and develop shows that are vehicles for advertisement, just like NBC, abc, cbs. Right. Same idea. Tom, do you have anything you want to add to that network definition?

Yeah, I'd like to put a little more definition on it where it definitely a network is a collection of shows, but I think it's important to understand there are different purposes for those collection of shows and different structures to how those shows are accessed or presented. So it can just be like you were saying, Tracy, a collection of shows in a similar genre, you know, area of interest, that make it easy for listeners to get a lot of value of different shows in the same area of interest. And then, of course, like you mentioned, one of the goals may be that the network can appeal to paid sponsors who are interested in providing messages, promotions, calls to action to all of the listeners across all these shows. And maybe each one of those shows might not have enough of an audience to really attract a sponsor on Its own. But a collection of shows might, because, you know, the collection of total listeners might be much larger than. And then there are others, you know, for promoting on social media and just crush promoting the shows between them. But to me, there's another distinction between just a collection of shows and a network of shows. And I think a true network of shows, or at least people are going to argue with me on this one. I'm sure we'll get some negative comments once this podcast is out there. But to me, a real network of shows is one where the listening experience is more curated and controlled. And people. People don't have to go subscribe over to this show separately and that show separately. That there's an easier way for people to listen to all the shows on the network, whether it's through a website where they're all on one website or it's through a mobile app that has been created just for that network. Or our favorite method is a single podcast feed where all those shows are also available. They're each available individually, potentially, and we would often think that's a good idea to do. But all the shows could be available in one podcast feed for the network.

Kind of like a best of network feed. Think of it like that. So it's not every single show that the individual one puts out, but it is the best ones curated together. So that might be a good example of that. But I think the one thing we forgot, Tom, was ownership. So there is also an ownership issue, which I think is the most significant and most important one when you're assessing whether or not you want to join a network is do you care if you own your intellectual property, your content at the end of the day? Because I heart wondry those kinds of things, they own the content. You do not have the ability to put them on your website. If you have a show from them, you have the ability to promote it on social media, but you only have the ability to promote the approved versions of things on social media. So it's tightly controlled in many, many networks. Radio networks typically work in an ownership model that's sometimes hidden. And I want people to be aware of that. So definitely make sure you take a look at the contract. In any network, at the end of the day, they may end up owning your show. Even if you spend all the money producing it, or even if you pay them a monthly fee to be a part of the network, at the end of the day, their contract says you're still owned by the network.

I think the best networks really do balance out the needs of the individual podcast hosts, the needs of the listeners and the needs of the network. Because clearly if the network is going to be aggregating all this content, promoting it, cost, promoting it, there's value the network will be providing too. We're not anti network or down on networks. All we're saying is be aware, make sure you know what you're getting into and is it a fit for you, Right.

Are you comfortable with that? Or is at the end of the day, this show your personal brand and them owning it is like they owned your voice, they owned you. So just be cautious about that and making sure that your eyes are wide open as to what that means for you. So let's talk a little bit about some of the failures that we've seen at networks and some of the successes as well. So where we see that, so significant successes I see are when the niche is tightly curated. So if it's sports niche, but it is sports enthusiasts, that is the listening base and they are very clear about making a concerted effort to go and get listeners for all their shows, then they do a great job. That's going to be highly valuable. There's a bunch of sports networks that have those kinds of focus that where they're doing that, some of them are only focused on college sports. So then it's college sports enthusiasts. It can even be tied deeper niched down. And that's amazing as well because now it's really going to get your show higher circulation. The benefit of one of those networks can be extremely high to your listener growth over time. Again, check and make sure it doesn't cost you something you're not willing to give. But if it doesn't, then this might be a really valuable community. We also see that when there's a match to that, that's not just a match to the category and niche, like in this case sports, but a match in the audience. That those two things going hand in hand. Like I was saying, college sports enthusiasts, right. That can be highly, highly valuable. Any risks there, Tom, that you see, have heard of in that area? I think those are mostly the biggest successes.

Those are the biggest successes. I think so too. I also think the ones that succeed the most have done a really good job of curating shows and didn't just take any show that wanted to be in the network. And we've seen it happen where, you know, a network will let anybody in the network and it really just becomes another place to listen to a whole bunch of different shows. It's not a tight enough Niche.

There's not really not enough compelling reason to go check out the network or be a part of that. Yes.

Right. And I think what makes a network succeed really well, when they've curated it. And each show is not just a different version of the same content, that they really complement each other and are each offering something unique still within the niche, whatever it is.

Right. So one of those that we've seen is a niche completely focused on military. So it has both former military, current military as the hosts of the show. So they have that background. And the content of each one of the shows is focused on serving a specific demographic or a specific focus and topic around transitions between military life and civilian life. And so they kind of cross over all of that. And they have a different show they feature. So they only feature seven shows a week, or seven different podcasts. And so they have one each day that goes. And I think that's a really beautiful model. They've kept it nicely tight. Every show on it is getting support from their network to make sure that the quality of the show is up there, the topics are up there, and they're all focused on gaining the same audience. And they do a tremendously great job. Now, what they don't do, though, is each have their own individual show. This particular one, each host has their day of the week, as if they were like a radio network where, you know, you had your time slot, right. Each show as a day of the week, but they're all consolidated on one website in one feed. And that's actually what's really working for them because the number of listeners just grows because they've got 7x that of shows pushing that out for them and helping them grow there. And so I think they reached over a million listeners last time I checked on them. And that was quite a while ago. So I'm sure they're much past that by now.

I think that if you have a network that has 14 shows, two of them can publish each day of the week. Right. I mean, there are ways to not just limit you to seven. Because I think there are some networks that may grow to have dozens of shows. Now, maybe people see it's convenient for the listener, maybe the listener will only listen to three or four of the seven shows over a course a week, or five or six of the 14 shows over the course of a week. They have some they like better than others. The advantage is they only have to subscribe to one to one podcast, one feed, and not have to subscribe to many. And so from a listening perspective and consolidating that listeners seem to appreciate and be interested in that. Personally, I like the idea of having my show available separately as well, because you might have the occasional listener who doesn't want to be bombarded with a whole bunch of other shows and they can just subscribe individually. But you know what I mean, there's no right or wrong answer to this.

If it works for you and it works for your goals, then that's really it. So, you know, some of the fails that we see in the networks, the fails are some of them have so much focus on the dollar, on the ad dollars that they aren't looking at the quality of the shows that Tom mentioned that before. And I think that's what we see significant in terms of like declining the listenership over time because it's so spotty as you have a good show and a bad show and a mediocre show and the listeners are like, I don't understand this. And so they don't understand why there isn't a better quality control over all of that. So that's really important in the process. I think understanding the promise of a network, what they're promising you, you know, look, if they're promising you community and support, great, go for it. Because community and support can only help you. Like that's what we try to do here at Potted Eyes. That's what our, our client group is, is we're trying to do to engender support so that everyone will keep podcasting and keep going. And then if in addition to that you've got a direct similar mission to what you're going to do with it, or if they can bring you something that you don't have, maybe they can bring you connections to guests, maybe they can bring you connections to other shows where you could do show swaps and be on each other's show. Maybe there's things like that that are valuable to you, but I would check on it. That's really the next caution that I want to give everyone is that I would really check that out because if they make this promise, but in the end it doesn't promise, there's this high level that I'm not going to out right now, but there's this high level sea level promise that they're bringing you C level guests. And the reality is, is that they don't. The reality is, is that the only guests they have are those who want, who join the network to seek C level guests. And the sea level guests actually don't participate in that at all and so there isn't the guests that come on your show that they offer up to you are not at the level you expected and you were promised. And so being cautious about that. Is it happening actually in practice? Get some references, call up those show hosts, ask them what they think of the network, be clear on that. And that's another double check system. If they've got a website that, where they've got all their shows on there, go actually check out those shows and make sure they're still publishing. Because sometimes we'll go to a network and we'll find out 90% of the shows are no longer publishing. They quit, they pod faded just like everybody else. And so they are still using them on their website as shows that they have in their network, but they're actually not active.

And this actually to me is a measurement of a good quality network, one that the people are really active. In fact, I think good networks should have a minimum requirement that every show be publishing. I mean, I would think once a week, but, you know, they could make it be at least once every other week or whatever. You don't want to be carrying dead shows on the network, you know, and are the podcasters going to commit at least for a minimum period of time to the network. But here's the other thing that I think as a podcast host, a podcast owner, and all of you that have podcasts are owners of your shows, just to be clear about that, or should be in our opinion anyway, is that you really want to try to assess is the network really you on the network because they're more interested in what's in it for them, Meaning having your show, having more shows in their network makes their network look better and look big is really more of the emphasis on offering you all sorts of stuff, getting you in the network because that benefits them or is there real value and benefit to you to being part of a network? And I think the best networks really, like I said, balance out those three, three things. Needs of the listener, needs of the podcaster, needs of the network. And to strike a good balance of that.

The last section that I just want to mention from a potential failure point, but also just something to look out for and understand is is someone's promising you ads as a part of the network, so they're promising you ad dollars. We really go in and actually listen to those ads because a lot of times what you find is, you know, this is actually classic Megaphone, classic Spotify, is that the only advertisers are Spotify and Megaphone on your podcast and they run for over a minute at the beginning of your show through their process. So they're frustrating your core listeners and they're not providing much value because that's not a high value advertiser that you want to be associated with. When Tom and I had our 3D print podcast and it was associated with Hewlett Packard, that did something for us to be associated with that advertiser and sponsor as much as it did for the sponsor. Right. And so we want to have that mutually beneficial. So go check out some of their show ads, make sure they're of value, make sure they're going to resonate with your community. Because the last thing you also want are advertisers that are in direct conflict with the messaging and the intent of your podcast. And when you're on a network, you don't get a choice because typically they stream those ads on. So you don't even. It just happens. And so you don't have any say in it at all. The same thing could be said of what we call a pod pod. So if you've heard of a like Facebook pod, Instagram pod, a LinkedIn pod, right? And that's where you have a group, a network that operates like that, where they're saying you're required to share other shows on your show. So your requirement is to. So on the binge factor, I'd have to share some random show on sports on my show. And what if it was something that I didn't agree with? What if it was a show on something that was counter to my messaging? I wouldn't have an opportunity to refuse that in the pod situation because the cooperation and collaboration matters. So you also want to make sure that your pod is synergistic as well. So that's still cross advertising. It's just more cross promotion of a podcast, not an actual physical ad. But those two things, check them out and make sure that you either have the ability to say no and refuse the ads, or you have the ability to check them out and say, yeah, I really feel like this is going to be valuable and something that's going to be useful for my particular show.

That's some good suggestions there, Tracy. You know, we could go down a whole rabbit hole here, but I think that the point is really just podcaster beware. And as you're looking and considering networks, just make sure you're very clear about what you're going to. We had, I mean, I've even just in the, this latest year we've had probably 10 or 12 different podcasters leave a network and come host on Politize. Because those ads were not only not in alignment with their subject matter and their listenership, but they were also. You said one minute, Tracy. I mean we've had people that had two and a half and three minutes worth of ads for things that are just common stuff like dish soap or Google Ads or you know, things that are just not relevant.

Intrusive ads, like that's what I consider them. They're interrupting the flow, right?

Annoys the listener. And the last thing you want to do is have people not listen to your show, to not stay and get to the good stuff because there's too many ads running right up front. There are ways to run ads. We're not anti ad or promotion either, I want to make this clear, but in small increments, small doses and ideally things that are more relevant because if they're more relevant to your listeners and their areas of interests, their needs, their desires, they don't mind listening to them. You're providing them content for free in this podcast and if you for whatever reason need to run an ad, they don't mind. 65% of podcast listeners really don't mind listening to ads, especially when they're relevant. And you'll find there's a much higher conversion rate for your sponsor.

So then we're talking about that trifecta Tom mentioned multiple times already here. We're talking about the listener benefits, the network benefits, you benefit as the host and then in addition to that, the advertiser is benefiting it. So it's really win, win all around. And that's I think critically important here. So I want to end by saying that we are in support of networks here. We have been supporting networks. Now not all of them have made it and many of them we tried to give them advice and coaching and they weren't listening, frankly. And there's only so much we can do on our end. We are starting a spin off show. So feed your brand has been in sets of spinoffs and one of the new ones, and this is the first episode in that one of the new ones is a specific support spin off feed for networks so that we can help support those who want to build networks, not just and those who are within networks as well. So that's going to be happening soon. And the first announcement of that is a support for femcasters. We're really excited for that. Carina Belize and Jules Logan have just started a network called femcasters. They're going to have man casters and a bunch of other ones as they go forward. So it's not just going to be women, but we're really so excited about them coming on. And there'll be a link to them in the show notes for this episode@potatoes.com FeedYourBrand so you can just click the feed your brand link and you'll be able to find the link to them. And we are super excited about their promise here. So here's another thing. So when Tom and I were saying were we going to just go a little bit deeper in supporting a network, we spent some time with them and check them out. And what we're both really, really impressed in is they've gotten this part figured out of what their community is going to be like, how it's going to support each other, and then what its overall future goal is. And I think that that is going to make them on a higher path for success here. And I think it's they've got that win, win, win scenario built in. So that's why we're here supporting them. We're really excited to have them as a part of our system on potitize and so a network within our network. So we're really excited about that. So, so look at them. Check them out. They've already got quite a lot of members starting to join them. They've just been, I think, up and for a month and a half public and you're going to want to check them out. So go to the show notes for this episode. So everyone, I hope you've enjoyed our podcast episode about networking. Check out that spinoff feed when it'll be running. If this episode is running, it will be running, so you'll be able to check out that new feed as well. And you can subscribe specifically to that and not just the main feed, your brand feed, if that's the only thing you're really interested in.

All right, well, thanks for listening, everybody. We'll be back next time with another great episode. This has been Tom and Tracy Hazzard on feed.

You'd brand.

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