How To Embrace Mindful Creative Collaboration To Make An Authoritative Podcast With Izolda Trakhtenberg Of The Innovative Mindset Podcast

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority Magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazzard shares strategies, tips and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor. Now let's join Tracy as she explores how to rise above all the digital noise with the Binge Factor.

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Binge Factor. I'm Tracy Hazard and I have a legendary podcaster today. I mean, she is just off the charts amazing. She has spoken to Sports Spotify, to their team about podcasting. So she's just like absolute rock star in the podcasting world from what she's been able to achieve from her show. And it's just so amazing that I'm going to go through her bio, but then I'm going to say some things about her because I just have had so much fun getting to know her and talk to her. And we did an extra long interview here than I normally do because I absolutely couldn't stop talking to her. There's so much to delve into. So Isolda Trachtenberg believes innovation isn't just about the latest fad. It's about creative thinking and mindful ethical actions. This refreshing approach has made her a sought after speaker, educator and coach for creatives and business leaders. For years, Isolde traveled the world as a NASA Master trainer, transforming perspectives on planet Earth. She has released four books on communication, collaboration and self improvement. Nowadays you'll find her speaking at conferences, looking for the next great ocean beach, or singing for hundreds of people, all while interviewing peak performers on creativity, ethical innovation and saving the earth on her hit podcast, the Innovative Mindset. And I love that. Innovation is something that I could talk about all day long, as you guys know, because I wrote articles on it and I've done a ton of innovation. But innovation and the innovative mindset is not something that gets put together very often, but it is something that people are striving to understand. Mindset is huge in just about every category of business. And so when we start thinking about how do we get to be more innovative, how do we get the creative flow continuing to go? How do we do those things? You might start putting innovative and mindset together and start thinking about that. And there isn't anyone better to ask to speak about that or talk about that than Isolda Trachtenberg. So Isolde and I have just gotten to know each other and just absolutely had so much fun. She's so funny, which makes her podcast even better because she's got this great sense of humor on there, and she's really talking about, though, how to combine inspiration and action together. So let's take some action. Let's listen to Azolda talk about the innovative mindset and everything she's been doing with her podcast. That could work for you, too.

Thank you so much for coming on. It's such a great twist to be able to be interviewed and then come and get interviewed. And, like, it's just so much fun to do a podcast. It's one of my favorite things to do. And the innovative mindset is just such a cool show and you have such a great model of it. Like, there's so much power in that show. It's just a lot of fun to hear. And so I'm so glad you're coming on here to talk about the success that you've had and where you maybe still have some challenges.

Ah, Tracy, thanks so much for having me. This is wonderful and fabulous and all the good things.

Yeah. So you've been featured by Spotify. Like, you actually spoke to Spotify. So I want to start there because it sort of sets the groundwork for why I'm having you on, because it's so different than all the others. How did that come about and how far into your show were you when that happened?

Well, I was in the show. This would have been 20, the very end of 2019. So I was about a year and a half into this iteration of the show. And really, I would love to say that it was something I did, but it wasn't. It was actually good SEO that got me. They found me, which was really incredible and very powerful that it happened to be that the things that I'm focusing on were exactly the things that they were looking for. And because I had a lot of that SEO built into my website, they found me and they were like, hey, we're doing this event we'd like for you. Because they had just announced they were going all in on podcasts, and they went, we want you to be on the show to podcasts. Like, they wanted me to podcast to their internal people. And that's how all of that went. And then they featured the show at after that.

That's so fantastic. So what did you talk about?

Mindful creativity. We think of Spotify as this really incredible, cutting edge, creative company, but most of their employees are engineers, and a lot of those folks are thinking about coding they're not thinking about the creative aspects of what they're doing. And so they wanted. The woman who booked me for the gig wanted the opportunity for the engineers, for the vast majority of the highly technical people to have a little bit of exposure to that creative mindset and thinking about innov from a source of creativity, from a source of creative thinking and inspiration. And then because I marry creativity and mindfulness, she also wanted them to have some tools to build that kind of mindful awareness and maybe even get some ideas on how to build a mindfulness practice, because they're working hard, they're working their patooties off. And so she wanted the combination of both mindfulness and creativity, and then the third level of that being from a podcaster's perspective. And I happened to be able to do all three. And so that's how I got the gig.

Well, and it's so unusual what you do. So I've worked in the innovation space for 30 years, and all I can say is that marrying creative mindfulness is just not an ordinary combination. It's pretty extraordinary. So for her to even be searching for that is also quite. I mean, that's quite forward thinking in and of itself.

Absolutely. And you know, to me, innovation, there are a couple different meanings that I attach to it. To me, at its base is innovation is inspiration plus action, right? You're inspired to do something and then you take action on it. And the inspiration comes from either your creative mindset and. Or the ability to be mindful to see that there are problems that need to be solved. Right. And so if we're looking at innovation being something that is problem solving, especially from that creative place, to be aware that there are problems that need to be solved, that's when you need mindfulness. So when I was developing this way of looking at how we can be innovative at how we can help people solve their problems, because, you know, I believe we're all in the business business of solving other people's problems. When I was looking at it, I went, you know, one of the things that's really helped me is my mindfulness practice. And I've had one for almost 30 years. And that aspect of it has allowed me to be more aware, to have more sort of perceptive skills already developed, because mindfulness allows you the opportunity to focus. And then once you are able to focus, then you can see some of those problems, and then that inspiration and creative thinking allows you to start coming up with solutions and then take action on them.

You know, it's so interesting. One of the very first articles I ever wrote for Inc Magazine, when I wrote my innovation column there, I interviewed John Asroth. And he, of course, is, you know, the mind mapping and the whole idea of, you know, focus dream boards and all of those things. And he prepped so amazingly for our interview. He had like, post it notes in front of him that he was, like, doing, and I could see him and he would pull one off after he covered that. And so like, he was kind of covering the talk. But he had such an interesting perspective because I said to him, I'm so curious about this is because I feel like I'm a highly innovative and creative person. But my brain is crowded. Like, there's a lot of noise in there. And I don't feel like I ever get it quiet enough. Even when I meditate. Like, I feel like it's still noisy, but my ideas are still flowing. And he said, that's okay. He said, that's okay. If you can quiet it enough just to have those ideas come to the surface, that's all your brain needs to take it to the next place. And I thought, wow, that was like, released me from feeling like I was failing at this meditation thing and not getting my mind quite enough. But I wasn't. I mean, I was still doing innovative and successful things. And then all of a sudden, you know what happened? My mind got quieter.

Ah, there you go.

But, you know, I had to stop working so hard at it.

Right. So much of it is that. So much of it is on top of trying to be mindful. We put all this pressure on ourselves to be so successful at it right now. And it's not. That's not what works, really.

Although it's a practice. Right?

Exactly. And that's something that I, when I work with my clients, I talk about that a lot. That this is not something that you should judge yourself for because that's taking energy you could be putting towards something positive and using it towards beating yourself up. Right. So instead you have to forgive yourself for that stuff. But also, I have to say something that I hope you don't mind my saying. Some people thrive on chaos. Some people are.

You know, I live that. I totally get that. You are. You are saying something that resembles me.

Yeah. And I completely understand that. I have been in my life also a person who thrives on chaos. And there's nothing wrong with that, provided it is purposeful chaos. Right. So if you can go, everything is just gonna go everywhere, but then you can harness it back when you need to, then, hey, I say go play. At the same time, you want to focus on what matters for yourself, right? You want to focus on the things that you choose to focus on. And sometimes you're going to reach out like. Like a sort of a figurative post it note and grab the thing that you're thinking about out of all the chaos. There's nothing wrong with that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. The key for us, though, is to remember that sometimes we are the boss of the chaos and sometimes the chaos is the boss of us. And what you want to do is make sure that you're falling more on the former than on the latter.

Absolutely. Well, let's talk about that moment that you grabbed onto the idea of starting a podcast, because that's your point of inspiration. So you started the podcast and then you took action on that. When was that? And what made you think that this podcasting thing would be worth doing?

Okay, so I have to go way back to high school for this, and that was a long time ago. Yes, well, not podcasting, because I've been out of high school for a long time, but I was involved in my high school radio station. And so I fell completely in love with radio and the notion of sitting in front of a microphone and really having these incredible conversations, and then ended up being a professional DJ for a little while, did my college radio station, blah, blah, blah. So the notion of speaking and really having that kind of interaction, voice to voice, is something that has been a home of mine for many, many years. When I discovered podcasting, it sort of came in as a. I think this is the next iteration of talk radio. I know how to do that. So I sort of got the inspiration to talk about storytelling. I've had various podcasts. The first one was, it was called Tell youl Story Better because I was spending a lot of time teaching people how to tell their stories, how to get so that they were confident standing up in front of people, how to figure out the writing part of telling a story, all of those things. And people were saying to me, you know, you should talk about this on a bigger forum. And so I married the notion of, wow, talk radio, that means podcasting and storytelling. Then the tell your story better podcast was born. And then when I sort of put that to bed, I kept talking about creativity and the fact that creativity was going to be the thing that you were gonna. The, well, you were gonna dip into in order to get to that story part of your life. And so then that became the creative mindset podcast. And then from The Creative Mindset Podcast. I want to. I love creativity. Please don't get me wrong, but I feel like creativity just for the sake of creativity has its place, but I'm always a problem solver, and we are facing so many challenges right now. So creativity in and of itself is wonderful, as I said. But I wanted to bring it into innovation, and I went, okay, how do I marry creativity and innovation? And that's where all of my three Cs were born and started talking a lot about the three Cs. And all of that has become the Innovative Mindset Podcast. And now when I do that, the inspiration for it is always, what are the problems that we're facing and how do we solve them in a new and as much as possible, compassionate way?

So what are the three Cs? I want to make sure everybody heard.

Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. Of course. So the three Cs are creativity, compassion, and collaboration. And then it's almost like I should start saying three Cs over another C, which is curiosity. Nothing happens without curiosity. So the three Cs are there, but the foundation of them is always curiosity. It's like you were saying, what got you started in wanting to do this? Well, I wanted to find out how. I wanted to find out if it was possible. That all takes that foundation of curiosity.

I love that. Curiosity is my favorite part of podcasting. Like, I get to interview interesting people and talk to people like you and. Because. Curious, right? And that's that that, like, feeds into my mind and feeds into. I. I'm going to say my innovation flow. Because when you have that, when you're taking all those pieces of input in, that flow happens, right?

Absolutely.

And that's the collaboration part that you're talking about. So I love, love, love that. But what's your favorite part that you found out about podcasting? So you said you were kind of attracted to the radio, but what about podcasting? What's been the favorite part for you?

Honestly, it's the opportunity, like you said, to get curious about different people and how they're differently, how they're looking at the world differently, and to tease out questions and answers in a way that nobody else is doing. I love hearing this. I just. I was just doing a podcast interview earlier today with someone, and he said to me, you know, the way you ask your questions, no one's ever asked me questions like that before. That was really fun. And you got me thinking about things I've never thought of before, and I love that. That is such juice to Me, because it makes me think and be very grateful for the fact that maybe I'm doing it in a way that's just a little unique. And I love helping people discover new things about the things they already love. And in podcasting, because as I tell the people I'm interviewing, this is just us having a chat over coffee. I don't want you to think that this is formal at all, that we are potentially brainstorming together in our conversation to make things even better. And to me, leaving something better than you found it is the end all be all right, so. So that.

That's innovation right there.

Exactly, exactly. And so that's why when I'm doing podcasting and I. And I get to that place where the person themselves, they're thinking, wow, wait, I've never tried to figure this out before. Hold on, let me see if I can put all the pieces together. And this is how they go together. Oh, they. When they have those sparks of inspiration while we're chatting, that's magic, right?

Oh, I love it. Well, you know, you just mentioned there about your interview process, and I want everyone. This is a. There's always a reason I pick a show that I and the host that I'm having on, because you're going to learn something from them. And here's what it. I'm not going to tell you all the details of it. You need to go listen to understand why her questions, the way she asks questions is so different. But what I want to know is how you prep for it. How do you prep for your interviews? Are you preparing those questions ahead of time? Are you really doing them off the cuff? Like, how is that working for you?

There are a couple of things. It's a combination of both. First of all, before I interview anybody, I ask them to fill out a form, and on the form, I'll ask them for their social media and all of that so that I'll have all of that. I also ask them for a bio, and then I will ask them for what is their sort of professional philosophy? Because I want to know where they're coming from. And then I tell them very clearly what the mission of the show, of my show is, because my show is in the earth conservation space. So I'm not gonna take a lot of people who are like, I work for the oil industry, so I'm not gonna accept those people as interviewees. But then I ask them, hey, tell me four questions you would like to be asked. And they will write down the questions that they would like to be asked. And then I look at those questions, I look at their website and their social media, I do my research based on articles that have been written by them or on them. And then I take as the basis those four questions that I ask them to get to me. And then I figure out my own take on those four questions. Because generally speaking, the questions that they're going to want to be asked are the questions A, that they want to highlight the answers and B, that they're probably experts on. But I don't want to just go, do you think the sky is blue? Yes, the sky is blue. Eh, boring. Right. So instead.

Or you want to ask a better question. Right?

Exactly, exactly. I would want to ask like, what do you think makes sense? The sky blue. Right. I would always want to ask what and how questions. I almost never ask when and where and certainly never why. I don't ask why questions because built into a why is sort of a need to defend or justify what you're doing. So I don't ask them. I don't really want to know why. I want to know what are the steps, how are you doing this, where and when. You can look those facts up. But to get to the what, to get to the how, the steps, the juice of it, those kinds of questions work much better. And yes or no questions, again, they're factual, they're lovely, but they don't really make the conversation progress.

No, that's so, so true. Well, I want to talk about the SEO you mentioned before. The reason Spotify found you because so few and for those of you I'm defining search engine optimization, SEO. If you haven't heard that term before, I'd be shocked nowadays, but because it is kind of an old school term. But you must come from a blogging background if you understand SEO. And you must be doing a really good job there. But what did you find when you started your podcast and that you built into it that really put this great groundwork and framework for SEO that has allowed you to be found so easily?

Again, I would love to say that I did it on purpose. I don't really come from a blogging background. I'm a much better speaker than I am a writer, even though I've written six books. I do want to say that what it is is am I talking substantively in my show notes, am I talking substantively on my website, in my programming, the about me page, all of that about the things that are going to benefit my audience, Right? So for example, in my about page, I say stuff about Myself. But a lot of it is focused through the lens of what benefit my audience would receive if they book me to give a speech or if they book me to give a workshop. Right. So I'm not ever going to, oh, yes, I'm an immigrant. I might say, yes, I'm an immigrant. I was born in the former Soviet Union. And that has given me an insight into different cultures and how different cultures can thrive. So if I'm talking about building a corporate culture, I'm gonna talk about it again from that perspective. I might also put Daniel Coyle's book the Culture Code as one of the things I talk about. So I'm building in the key words, culture, company culture, team building, all of that into what I'm writing about, and also the keywords and the meta tags and all of that, so that if somebody's looking for, hey, we want to improve our company culture, they're going to Google company culture or improving company culture. So that's the kind of thing that I'll do. The other thing I do on one of my favorite websites right now is Answer the Public, and that is a.

Phenomenon I love, Answer the Public. It's so rare somebody knows it. Okay, I will put links for that so that you can get right there. But Answer the Public is an awesome platform.

It is. And the thing about it is, is that if you put in corporate culture as one of the search terms, what it does is it tells you what are the questions people are asking about corporate culture, for example, or team building or innovation. So if I know the questions, because Answer the Public gives you back that information, what are the questions and how have they been phrased that people have been asking about innovation, then I know a lot more about it. And if people weren't asking about it, if I get back, well, you know, somebody in Timbuktu asked about it three years ago. Well, then maybe it's not a good topic to try and build a podcast episode about. But if there's a lot of questions being asked, if there's a lot of curiosity about it, ha ha, Then I know I'm on the right track.

Oh, that's wonderful. I'm so glad you're using it that way. And it's such a great way to build a show. So when we were doing our show on 3D printing, that's exactly what we would use, Answer the Public all the time. Because when you're advanced in your knowledge of something, you forget about the rookie questions.

Sure, absolutely. I read somewhere that we adapt very quickly to not remembering what we didn't know. Right. As soon as you know it, you can't unknow it.

Right?

Right. Once you know something, it's very hard to not know it anymore. It's almost impossible. The brain kind of goes, oh, there's that little factoid. It's gonna be there forever until and unless something else pushes it aside. But most of the time you can't unknow it. So if you know the answer to it, it's always going to be. I liken it to if you take a straw and you bend the straw till it really bends forever and ever, when you bend that straw, it will bend in that same place first. Always. Right. It's because it's happened, the creases happen. And that's what it is. The same thing with our knowledge, how we innovate, how we think is always going to be from that perspective because we already have it. And it's difficult and challenging to change that perspective to a different focus. Which brings me right back to mindfulness. And I put on my, my mindfulness hat and my mindfulness pom poms and start cheering about that.

It's so, so true. So this actually just happened to us recently in our company. Was that my. She just turned 13. Actually yesterday, my 13 year old daughter decided to start a podcast and I said this is an opportunity for our team to get the aha of what we're not explaining for well anymore because we're now in the weeds. So even though some of my teams never been, they never podcasted before they started being client success managers. But I was like, I want you to go through and I want you to listen really carefully to the questions or figure out where they go wrong. And they didn't do something right because it wasn't, you know, easily understood for them. And they're a tech savvy generation. Right? So and if they're having difficulty with it, you can imagine that lots of our clients who are in an older generation are having difficult with it and we're not seeing that anymore. So I was like, take this opportunity to have them go through the whole process and find out where things fall apart. And some. And quite a few little things did. They. They excelled at a ton of things, but quite a few little things did that. We were like, wow, that's not as obvious as it should be. That button should be bigger and these things should be there. They, you know, if a tech savvy group couldn't do it, gosh, how can we expect the rest of our clients to do it. And it's a great opportunity to absolutely open your mind to. To new ideas. I love that. Well, so let's do our three questions that I do with everyone here, because I really want to get at this because you have such a very specific show, as you mentioned before, it's Earth Conservation. You're really looking at innovation on this sort of natural view of things. So you must be very picky about the guests that you're having on the show. How do you vet them? How do you get good guests? Are you out there seeking? Are you taking solicitations? How is that working for you?

Couple different things are happening and it's a great question. The podcast got into Podcasting for Dummies, and that was lovely and made me very happy. But that made the podcast explode. Right. It's a featured podcast in the book, which makes me. I'm super grateful and lots of people have discovered it, and that's lovely. The thing about, though, is that PR pros have discovered my show, which means I'm getting about 15, 20 pitches a day. And yeah, it's a lot. And the thing is, again, one of the most important things that I can do to vet my guests is to be very clear on the mission of my show. I only interview people who are peak performers in the creative, social impact and conservation spaces, nobody else. And then remember how I said I don't use why? Well, I do in this case. Why is it that you should be on the show? And here's how I do it. I have a little deck that I sort of send to all the PR pros that I work with, and I give them. These are the parameters, folks. This is what I need before you pitch me. Any guest, your client, I mean, should be ready to talk. 60% of what they say should be directly benefiting my audience, 30% of what they say should be directly benefiting them, and 10% can benefit me. But really, I'm happy at all going to my audience. So 70, 30 would be fine. And I need them to understand that. I also need them to know that the people they pitch me need to be from those perspectives of creativity, social impact, or earth conservation. If they aren't, don't pitch me. And so I'm training the PR pros who routinely solicit me to do that, to only find me people to pitch who are going to satisfy that. And if it's someone who's. Maybe what I do is I, in addition to having the guest form where I know I want you on the show, and I have all these questions for you to fill out. I have another form that's a Google Doc that if you're pitching me someone and you're not sure if they're gonna fit, then you fill out this form that gives me almost the exact same questions. But then I also say, hey, how are you going to satisfy my podcast mission? How is your client going to satisfy my podcast mission? If you can't, then I'm afraid I can't have you on the show. If you can and you show me that, that you are really working. Like, I was just interviewing somebody today who is in the NFT space, but they are very interested in doing NFTs that are carbon neutral or carbon negative. So their research is going at that fits perfectly. Not only is it going to be social impact and it's creative, but they're actively trying to find something that's conservationist. So, of course I wanted them on the show, but I wanted that. I wanted to see where that line was so that I could feel confident that when I present this episode to my audience, that they're going to be there in that way. As far as how I solicit people, I'm brazen. I'm like, I. No, seriously. I was in a restaurant.

I love it.

It's just true. I was in a restaurant in Manhattan having dinner with my husband. I saw someone who had a PIN that I thought was really amazing. I stopped him and I said, hey, I love that pin. I have a podcast all about innovation. I would love to have you on my show. I have my business card ready. Please get in touch with me. Can I have your card? We exchanged cards. He was on the show a few weeks ago, and it's just because otherwise, you know, if you don't ask, the answer's always no. So I will ask people. I will get inspired by people and just come out. I have also. Sorry, I have stalked people on LinkedIn. And, you know, when it's somebody whose work I really, really admire, I will start commenting on their stories and posts. I will talk to them, and then eventually, once they know a little bit more about me, I'll pitch them, hey, I love the work you're doing. I would love to highlight you and elevate you on my show. And my show now has a pretty large audience, so when I say to them, I've got, you know, many thousands of monthly listeners, they go, oh, that's interesting to me. You know, so at first it was.

There's really no nothing in the process of Them coming on your show where they should say no to, like, I'm gonna be the testimony to say that for you. Because, you know, that's so true. She's in a rare area and in that rare area, she's the most successful. So like, you know, that's so amazing.

Oh, I thank you so much for saying that. But it is, I mean, this is a process and I think if you're doing a show, if you're interested in having a show and you want, they always say niche down. Niche down. Yes, absolutely. But also, don't be afraid to take chances. Right. If I, if I can do it, you certainly can. And it is all about know who you want to talk to. And then sometimes you'll ask a friend of a friend of a friend too. I've had that happen as well, where someone will go, oh, I know exactly who you need to talk to. Excellent. And if you have materials like your, your podcast media kit and all of that that you can say, hey, this is what I do. Just so you can see if you've got episodes that you can point them to. A lot of the earned media I get now I get because I'm able to go, hey, this is where you can find my media kit. This is where you can find the top three episodes, the top three performers, or the top three that I think are the most fun or the most poignant or whatever, depending on who I'm pitching for. What I have all of that already figured out. You can go to the website and you can find it all and I can give you the link for it. Then if they go to the link, they'll have all the information readily available. And that is crucial because then it's all laid out for them. And then either having me on their show or agreeing to be on my show becomes kind of a no brainer because everything is all organized, it looks professional, because it is professional. And then you try to deliver as a host. And you know this because you're such a great host yourself, Tracy. You try to give them a really fantastic experience while they're chatting with you. And last but not least, after I chat with someone, one of the things that I'll do in my thank you email, which I send right after, is, hey, if you know somebody who's in this space, the mission of my show, and you think they, they would enjoy being interviewed, I would love to have your recommendations, please let me know. Always, always, always ask. It's brought me some of my favorite guests because I was like, hey, I would Love to have from you. Where are the people and who are the people and what might they want as far as being on the show? And then I get them on the show and well that's how we met.

Because one of your guests recommended you to me. So, so that's exactly, exactly that kind of pay it forward. Why not ask for it? There's no reason not to and they had a great experience. They're likely to, you know, really recommend you, somebody great. And so I think it's a very often overlooked area. So thank you for that really thorough description of like how that whole. No, because it's, it's a whole ecosystem of how you have this, this working for you and it's like multi level. I love it. And it's so refined for you too, the idea of having parameters like that you're setting. So I have that I have a form that is on my site and so if it's not a PR person that I've worked with before who I know only gives me the good people, I make them go through that form. But I don't really use the. The form is like if you randomly came across the website and you wanted to apply yourself or those PR people who are annoying me with too many that aren't right, I'm like there's a form to fill out and then I just, just ignore them when they come through the form.

But once they get right, I send them to a direct link so they can skip the form. They don't have to go through that stage and it's a lot more direct for them, for their clients, but only if they've graduated to the wow, you sent me two great people in a row. Now you get it and you're going to get up to that next level. So I also do it that way too. I think that gating of it is important.

I really do. And I'll tell you, as your audience learns more about who you're going to interview and the kind of content you're going to bring them, they will give you feedback. Also like I get some lovely comments from the people who listen to the show, not just in reviews. I have a little contact form on my website. Hey, if you and I always say at the end if there's something you want me to know, please contact me and I get some lovely comments. You know what, I really love that interview. Or oh, you know what? I would have really liked for you to ask person X this. Ah, I didn't even think of that. So I'm learning from My audience, what it is they want to hear, and it enriches my experience, but hopefully it also helps them get more of what they want when they listen.

Well, let's talk about that, because that's the second question that I always ask everybody. It's about your listener growth. It's about growing listeners and engaging with them. So how do you create a better growth path and engagement path for those listeners?

Oh, it's a. That's a really good question. I'll tell you something. So much of it is word of mouth. I would like to think that it's all tech. It's not. People tell people, people tell people. And one of the best things that you can do, and this is weird as far as top tier versus mid level tier versus sort of starting out guests, because I have a combination of all three. There is a place where people will share, and there's a place where people will not share the episode. Right. So that's one of the reasons that. And this is like you asked me earlier about the Juice, about what it is that I love about podcasting, and I said, I love asking questions no one else is asking. Part of why I do that, in addition to the fact that it satisfies the really curious part of me is I want the person I interviewed to be so excited about the things that they said and realized that it's not rote, that it's not something that they've just said 5,500 times before. And so they want to share the episode out. And more often than not, when they have that kind of really great experience where they. Where they came to a huge realization or they, you know, figured something out or detailed something that they had never thought about before, they want to share more often. Whereas some people are like, I'm not sharing this. I'm here to talk to your audience. I'm not so interested in having you in front of mine, which it's. Hey, it is what it is. That happens sometimes. But for me, what's interesting about this is that it is an interaction and it's an opportunity for me to interact with their audience, just like it's an opportunity for them to interact with mine. So that's one of the things.

Yo, I want to stop you right there for a second because I want the listeners to, like, feel the emphasis on this. It is really an unusual place. So Rena Friedman Watts is the one who introduced us.

She's great.

And so and Rena show. And when I was on Rena show, that was probably the first time I got to tell a lot of personal stories because people invite me on to be an expert in podcasts or a marketing expert or innovation expert. And so all I do is talk about, like, the thing, the characteristics that make that successful. And so it's a real, like, how to always. But I don't get to always tell the good, you know, personal stories, like, how did I get here? You know, what drives me? What's my relationship with my dad like? Things like that. I don't get to do that often.

Right.

So for me, when her show comes out, it hasn't come out quite yet as we're doing it, but when it comes out, I want to share it. I want to tag my dad, and I want, you know, like, there's a slightly different model of it. And it's because she got me to tell stories that I don't get to tell every time. So that originality is going to really serve you well. And that's why I think you've been very successful, because it is original. I see your guests are sharing. They really are sharing your show. And I think that's part of why you have such great listener growth.

I think that I'm. Again, I'm grateful for that, and I. And I thank you for saying that. It's also. Some of this is.

I want to say, yes, it's just that. But it's not. It's also, how am I talking about the episodes on social? How am I talking about the episodes themselves? During the episodes, am I making the show notes exciting enough and compelling enough? Am I making my social posts, my TikToks, my Instagram stories, et cetera, et cetera? Interesting enough so that someone who's new might go, oh, I want to check this out. Somebody who's used to listening. And I do five episodes a week, which is a little nutty, but there it is. One episode is an interview, and the other four are sort of deep dives into creativity and innovation from different perspectives. And I have to tell you, a lot of the times, the episodes that give me the most bump in listenership are ones that I think, oh, I'm just going to talk about it because it means something to me. It's not even necessarily something that's going to be right on point, but it's meaningful. And the question I just recently asked was, is an artist intelligent or just talented? And I got so much.

It's a hard, moving question.

Yeah, it is. And I got so much feedback on that. Cause the episode just aired, I got a bunch of Feedback on that. Because people have been thinking, and this is so telling that you can only be one or the other. And I went, no, you know, it's interesting. Yeah. Like they think that because if you're talented that you must be somehow insane or mad like Van Gogh. You know, they're not thinking that you can be sort of well adjusted and living your life and also be incredibly creative. Flaubert said, I'm gonna miss up the quote because I come up with my own way of saying it, but he said something along the lines of be orderly in your life so that you can be wild and original in your work. When I first read that, I went, yes, please. Thank you. Because being orderly in, in the day to day of your life allows you so much freedom to go completely bananas in, in the art or the work or whatever, then you can think outside the box, then you can do all sorts of stuff. So when I create these episodes that are getting these listeners really tuned in, it's because it's about a very specific topic, but it's a specific topic that many of us have probably thought about. And as soon as I marry those two things, then the listeners just bump.

Right up and they're engaging and they're commenting back and they're sharing their thoughts in this. I love that it's so you're actually creating a dialogue on what's a topic episode, which is really so unusual. It doesn't happen as often as it should.

You know, it's funny, I love that you said that it doesn't happen as often as it should. Part of this for me, and I have to be very honest about this, is that I didn't expect that to start happening to me. It's like a radio show where you're just talking as opposed to a call in show. And I want the tech, I think the tech might even already be out there with something where you can actually have people call in right when you're podcasting live. And I don't do it yet if it is even available because I'm not ready. But I think the notion of if somebody's listening and they're like, wait, I have a question. I love that. I would love to be able to really bring somebody into the conversation because sometimes I do feel like, oh, it's just, it's just my opinion and I like my opinion, or I wouldn't have my opinion, but I would like to hear other perspectives. And so I'm happy to make marvelous mistakes as I say it, in the service of doing that. But I'm not sure how to do it in a way that will be really beneficial to my audience yet. But that too will also grow down.

That's gonna come.

Yes, exactly. And it might, it might, it might. You know, I. I'm. I'm of the mind that I should always tell myself the truth. And if I'm not good at something yet, I'm okay admitting that I'm not good at it. If I am ready, I'm gonna jump right in, because again, that curiosity is what drives me to do the things I try.

Well, let's talk about monetization, because that's the last thing that we. I always ask everyone, and you know, monetization could be just be return on investment in whatever way. You don't. Doesn't have to be ad money. That's the typical answer, but, you know, whatever that is. So you've been doing this quite some time now, and, you know, it's morphed over time. But are you making money in your business? How is this translating? What kind of return investment are you getting from podcasting?

Okay, so there are two different questions there. The business is making money. That's that I do workshops and one on one coaching, and I do professional speaking on creativity and innovation. And the podcast, in many ways, is in the service of that. Up until very recently, the podcast has been a labor of love because I was like, I'm gonna just do it. It's gonna be super fun, and I'm gonna get to talk to artists and innovators and earth conservationist people in all of this. And then I started going, you know, this is a lot of work. Okay, I need to do something else. And so I do have some monetization things. I have some affiliate stuff going on. I've also recently launched our merch line. And I have this really fun logo for the show. And it's a little light bulb, and it's got a little eye in it for innovation and I for Isolda. So it worked out very well. And I love the little logo. And I went, you know what? I'm gonna put up a merch line and so you can get it like on a keychain or on a button or on a mug or on a whatever or T shirt hat. And I designed it myself. And it's out there and you can buy it. And the thing about it that's interesting is that people are buying it. And here's the beautiful feedback loop. If somebody likes your show enough to buy it and display it, then other people go hey, what's that?

Right?

So when I have a little sticker that says the innovative mindset podcast with the light bulb, I have it on my computer when I'm working at the library. People will see it because it's very sparkly, because I love sparkles. And I get asked and I'm like, oh, the podcast is such and such. And then I have my business card ready here, listen to an episode or two, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So there's a beautiful synergy that happens there. And I hate synergy as a. As a buzzword, but I love synergy as a word, if you know what I mean. So because of that. Because of that synergy, it increases engagement, it increases people who are listening, and it does get me some money because people are buying the merchandise.

Oh, how exciting. Well, I'm glad it's working out for you because I would hate for you to feel overwhelmed and quit your show. Although five days a week is daunting, so.

But it's five. I mean, the interview show Mondays is very. It's long. My record is three and a half hours. Yikes. Yeah, it was with a guy who started podcasting in 2004, and he's written books on podcasting, and he wrote Twitch for Dummies and Discord for Dummies. So he's like, in the tech world, and we had a lot to talk about. But the other episodes, the other Tuesday through Friday episodes are short five to about 10 minutes. So it doesn't take me a lot of time. But I have to tell you something, Tracy. I don't edit. That's key, right? That saves me so much time. And I love that I don't edit because it's really slice of life. Everything is authentic. The only thing I do is I slap on the intro and the outro and the rest of the episode goes as is. And it saves me a lot of time. And, you know, my audience loves it. They love hearing all the different weirdness that happens. Like, I had a Grammy Award winning guitarist on the show, and he had his dog in the studio with him while we were doing the interview. And in the middle of the interview, his dog threw up.

Oh, no.

Oh, yes. And so he said, you're not gonna keep that in the. Oh, yes, I am. I'm gonna keep it. So you can listen to it now, right? You can go and listen to it.

This is a. Goes under that crammy artist. They're just like us, right? Exactly.

I mean, and that's the thing. Why. Why not? You know, this is life. This is it. We are living, hopefully the very best life you get to live. And sometimes that means that you have to clean up dog vomit out of your shoes. That happens.

I love it. Ms. Older you. You crack me up. And we have so much fun talking that, like, I just lose track of time myself. So I could see how you could go for three hours. But, you know, here's the, here's the thing you were mentioning that you were headed towards. And I want to talk about, like, the future of your show and the future what you're doing, but you're also doing something really interesting, personal. You're starting to do a little standup comedy. Do you bring a lot of that into the show? Are you looking to be a little bit more comedic in your process? Is that why you're, you know, is that going to feed in?

Maybe if it's a happy accident. Right. I. The thing about this, the thing about stand up, I'm doing it for fun, but I'm also doing it because, as I mentioned, I'm a professional speaker and so I would like to be funny on purpose. I'm funny now. When I'm funny, often I look back, oh, that person laughed. Why? Why did they laugh? I'm not sure, because English is actually my fourth language. So there are things like I don't get puns. People make puns and I'm like, I don't understand what that means. And my husband is a big punster, so he's always looking at me like, really? You didn't get that? No, I didn't get it.

So, see, my husband's a punster too, but I don't laugh on purpose because it just encourages him. Right, so you got that down already. You would have had to, like, at some point shut it down, right?

I would if it had been on purpose, Yes, I would. I would have. Unfortunately, no, I just don't get puns. But the point is that, you know, in my ignorance, if I'm funny, that's great. And I realized a few years ago that I wanted to be able to be funny on purpose. So I took a stand up comedy class. And then of course, the pandemic. So after the standup comedy class, I decided I'm gonna start doing open mic nights and I'm gonna start start being funny on purpose. And also it gives me a chance to cuss, which I don't really do on my show. I'll be honest. And so I get to talk about whatever I want to talk about. And I'm Finding that it's bleeding in. Because some of the subjects that I think are interesting to explore in standup comedy are they're all about innovation. They're all about creativity. They're all about. I'm talking about the things in a funny way that I'm also talking about on the podcast. So. So there's a beautiful marriage there that's happening without me doing it on purpose. And if I'm funny on the show and you like it, thank you for laughing.

So I have a Binge Factor episode where I interviewed a standup comedian named Stephanie, and she was talking about that she was training speakers by bringing in some comedy techniques that they could apply. And, like, you know, you would tell the story or whatever. And so I actually tell the story from the stage all the time. And it's basically the story of how the next generation uses Alexa and AI. And she was just like, make a little twist to this story. Because I was like, my youngest daughter, she was five at the time, she had, like, a little lisp because she was missing her teeth, and she couldn't get Alexa to respond to her. And she was getting really pissed that her sister was controlling the AI. And so one day she runs over to the AI and she says, al Yeksa. Because that's how it sounded. Al Yeksa, play who Let the Dogs Out? Which wasn't the song, but that's what she said to do. Just switch it up so the song's funnier and, you know, the more annoying one that everybody knows. And she's like, just switch it up. And so I did it, and I got much more laughs from the stage, much more aha's and understanding from just making that one little switch, which was a comedy tip, was like, you can tell a true story, but just twist it around a little bit and maybe choose a little funnier name for something that just kind of has that. And I love that story. It's just one of my favorites now.

Absolutely. And it makes sense. So much sense that something that happened that you don't even think was funny, with just a little change in perspective, suddenly becomes hilarious. And. And then there are times there. There are things that I think are funny that, you know, Rich, who is a professional clown, will look at me and go, really? So my husband, Rich. And so there are times when I think I'm funny and I'm not. And the best way to find out is to put it up in front of an audience. You know, get people who don't like you very much to see if they think it's funny, because people who like you are going to be more inclined to tell you that was great, even if it was crap. So you have to be really careful.

That's what I say about your podcast idea. Maybe don't ask your friends and family. Ask a little bit outside of that.

Exactly. Exactly. As I say, ask people who don't like you very much, who don't have any reason to be like, yes, I'm gonna blow smoke up your skirt and tell you it's fabulous, when really it's only so. So.

Well, not to blow smoke up your skirt, but that's my job here at the binge factor is to identify your bingeable factor so I can share that with the world here so that they understand why they should be listening to your show. So here I am to psychoanalyze your show and share your binge factor.

Awesome.

So the innovative mindset has such an original perspective and an original combination of viewpoint. And I'm going to say great learnings because you have great experience here and you're combining them together in a way that we didn't know it could be so good. That's really what I think of it when I hear it. Look, I come from a big background of innovation and I come from an understanding of mindfulness. And I didn't know I could learn so much from listening to your show about how I could change my creative process, how this could apply. And even if you're not as, like, I'm going to say, dedicatedly interested in conservation, which I am, but even if you weren't, the takeaways are so strong in giving you a perspective on how to really be more innovative in everything you do. I can see why Spotify picked you. They made a great choice.

That's very sweet. Thank you. I appreciate your words so much. And it's amazing to me, actually, when to hear reflective. I mean, obviously you're amazing at what you do, Traci, but to hear it reflected back like that in such a succinct manner is. That's invaluable. I hope you realize what you do for people to be able to reflect back to them what you are able to synthesize. You've got such a great brain. It's wonderful.

Well, thank you for that. Now I'm gonna stop you and tell the audience and you exactly why I do that. So this is what I call ego bait. Now, ego bait, it's a short, funny name for it, but what it is, is, is when I share out this quote in a graphic, which you're going to receive after being on this episode, you're going to receive a quote version of it. So it'll be even a little more edited with a, you know, a little bit of ellipse in there. But it'll. It'll be like that kind of thing. So when I do that, you're more likely to share that than you were if I gave you a quote that you said on my show. Right. Because you don't want to share your own stuff with your own audience. But sharing what I said about you, that is helpful to you. It's way you'll promote your show. So in promoting your show, you're promoting you on my show, which helps my show grow too. So, like, it's a really collaborative process of making sure that I'm giving you something that you're more likely to share. And you were talking about that earlier. Like, how do you get your guests to share? It's important. This is how I. This is one of the tools that I use in that process. So I identified a physical vehicle to do it in because, number one, it makes it clear to you and clear to me that this is how I really feel about your show, and it makes it also clear to the audience who's listening today. But it makes it clear to my team, cut here and use this piece without me having to tell them and give them direction. So it's actually a physical and productive way for me to go ahead and instruct my social media team without having to give any written instructions because I'm kind of lazy on that side. I'm like you, I'd rather not edit. And I swear, half the time my team doesn't edit a show because I've done this so often. Like, there's the rare edit in there.

That's fabulous. What a great idea. And it's a friend of mine, Gloria Chow, talks about the difference between sales and marketing. Have I ever talked to you about this?

No. I'd love to hear it.

Okay, so what she says is, sales is when you're at a bar and a guy comes up to you and he's like, hey, I'm a doctor and I volunteer at the shelter every Saturday morning. I'm a really good guy. And you're like, oh, okay, that's sales. She said, marketing is when one of your really good friends comes over to you and she goes, hey, I saw you talking to that guy. You know, he is a really, really good guy. He's a doctor and he volunteer. He Walks dogs and he helps them walk every single Saturday. He's such a good guy. That's marketing. When somebody else tells you how good something is versus that person, that's marketing. And when she said that, I went.

Oh, yes, that's such a great light bulb moment. I love it. It's such a good description of it. And you know what? It goes back to our conversation about the guest pitches that we get from all those PR pros who all they do is say, like, he's a doctor and he's been on TV and, you know, like all this other stuff that I don't want to hear.

Right. I want to know what you're going to do for my audience. That's what I want to know when you pitch me. And it's funny, when I talk to people, when I'm talking about this kind of thing, I always say, I don't want to pitch you, I want to figure out how to pitch you. That's the difference, right? I want to know what's going to be successful. And the same thing goes for my show. When somebody's pitching me, they're not pitching me, they're pitching my audience. So they have to tell me what benefit they're going to bring to my audience. If they're going to be able to bring a big benefit to my audience, they're much more likely to get booked on the show than if they're just pitching me. Oh, Isolda, you're going to love this. No, I don't really care if I love it. I care if my audience will love it.

So, Isolde, you need to be speaking at more events. So I want all of those listening out there. If you've got an event, she's the perfect person to bring in. I mean, it applies across multiple industries, not just in the conservation space. Right. I mean, Spotify brought her in to talk podcasting. So think about that. Is you want someone who's this engaging, this thoughtful, this thought provoking to be a speaker at your event. Because I have been to a lot of events lately where I thought, what is up with these speakers? I don't, you know, And I want to listen to someone who. Who's fun, funny, and got the whole package going on. And you certainly do that. So I really hope that there's a listener out there who's going to reach out to you and say, you gotta come to my event.

I would love that. Please find me. That would be terrific. Thank you, Tracy. I appreciate that so much.

Well, before we end completely, I wanna make sure. That you offer up some advice. You were in podcasting for Dummies. You've spoken to Spotify. What advice do you have for our podcasters out there who haven't quite gotten off the fence and started their show yet?

Honestly, first thing is first, start, start, start, start. Even if you don't know what you're talking about, honestly, find there. You know there are people like Tracy out there who can help you. Right. There's information out there that will allow you to begin. Figure out what you want to talk about and start talking. And it reminds me of Pump up the Volume. I don't know if you remember that movie when Christian Slater's character was like, all you need. You just have to begin. You just have to start talking. And at the end of that movie, movie, everybody finds their voice. You have a unique voice. Use your voice. It's. There's no barrier. Find it.

If you don't start. Right.

Exactly. And there's no barrier to entry. This is. This is the time for us to all have our say. If you are on the fence about starting, now is the time to begin. You've absolutely nothing to lose.

Oh, thank you, Isolda. I'm so glad you came on the show. So glad Rena introduced us.

Me too.

And that was like one of those. You should have my friend on. She's amazing. Right. So that was marketing that she did for you, which was an easy. And yes, here's my booking link. Right. So, yeah, I'm so glad we connected up the innovative mindset. Such a fabulous show. Go check it out right now and take a listen. Learn some things about how to podcast and learn some things about being mindful about your innovation and about your creativity. I love when I can take away from a podcast that this podcaster should be on more podcasts. And that's exactly what happens. I think I've referred Zolda out to, like, five or six different podcasters just in the amount of time since I interviewed her. And I'm recording this intro, which is a week later than I intended to do it. Normally, I do it right away, but I had a little lag of time because I had some things going on. So anyway. But thinking about that is like, if I have someone, if I can refer someone so quickly to so many people, think about how powerful, how much more powerful your show can be. Right. Her show can be powerful because she can pick and choose where she goes. She can go in somebody else's podcast and then decide if she wants to ask them back onto hers. Right. Like these are the models of how things work. When you've built your podcast up to this brilliant stage of it being a powerful, authoritative model, deep dive into great content in a niche area. Like all of those things build together to create an amazingly strong referral network for you. And that referral network gets you more. It gets you a lot more. It's magnified as to how much more impact it can have. More people that you're going to be reaching out to because everyone's proud to be on your show and they're sharing it and they're doing all those things. But more importantly, the listeners are accepting it and then asking for more. And speakers, speaker agencies come in or speaker network marketing meetings, corporations, like in the case of Spotify here. Like, all of those things come in and say this is the right person because they can command an audience and that audience is out there seeking more. That's what they're doing. So is the holder. Trachtenberg has this down. She has just got a great show going on there and she should absolutely be speaking more and more places. So you should be hearing about her everywhere. And she's got all those technical details underneath her all in place. She's been thinking about our keywords she works through answer the public, which I just love that that tool. I'm so glad she mentioned that because we haven't talked about that in a while. She talks about how the things she does with her media kit and the top three episodes and asking for things in your. Thank you. Right. Like all of those things are making her show because she's got all those technical details all down and underneath her. It's just working as a power player along with her and making everything more successful, magnifying everything she does and making it so that she can do the things she loves the most. And all of that engine just works underneath her. So, you know, hey, I wouldn't expect anything less from someone who came out of working for NASA and doing the top level speeches and all the things that she's done in her career so far. But I can't wait to see what she does with her podcast next. So, Isolda Trachtenberg, one to watch. Innovative mindset. Don't miss it. Go check out her next episode, listen to what's going on. There's a ton of episodes. She's got so many under her belt and she puts out five a week. So she's got plenty for you to check out and listen to. So go to the blog post for this episode atthepitchfactor.com be able to connect up directly. Make sure you don't miss anything and make sure that if you'd like to invite her to speak at your next event, you can make that happen because Azolda is one who should be speaking at your next event. So take my word for that. Go check her out and reach out to her. She's so accessible, she's so funny and she's going to make it worth your while to have a conversation with her. So thanks everyone for listening. I'm Tracy Hazard and I'll be back with more bingeable podcasters coming up next.

You've been listening to the Binge Factor Podcast. For more information on podcasting and videocasting success tips and tactics, please go to thebingefactor.com and be sure to listen to our other show for podcasters called Feed you'd brand. If you'd like to be interviewed on this show as well as featured in Tracy's column, please go to thebingefactor.com guest and apply.

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