How To Make A Show That Millennials Will Love And Binge-Listen? With Alexandra Hazzard & Cody Hanify

Want your podcast and videocast to be seen, heard, found, and rewarded in this noisy digital world, you are not alone. Join the nonprofit community at Podcasters United and podcast industry experts Tom Hazard and Tracy Hazard as they debunk all that outdated and bad advice you've been getting from the podcast gurus and find out what actually works. Today, get ready to finish Feed your brand with smart cut tactics proven to cast your original voice to the world.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Feed you'd brand. I'm Tracy Hazard, and today I'm turning the call that we normally have on our coaching call and this podcast episode to two of my millennial staff members. Because why not ask millennials what they think makes a good podcast? Rather than me telling you that because I'm way too old to be a millennial. Anyway, I want to introduce Alexandra Hazard. Yes, that name sounds familiar. Yes. Alexandra is my daughter and our coo. She runs all the operations and systems at Pottiti. She's just absolutely amazing at what she can accomplish. But she's a podcast listener, and that's why I've asked her to talk with you today. And then I also have Cody Hanafi, and Cody has his own podcast that he's getting off the ground right now. And so he's been listening to a lot of podcasts for a while, trying to make sure that they do the best job possible in the way that they're approaching their podcast. So I invited Alexandra and Cody to come on and talk to you about the millennial view of what makes a great podcast. Hello, everyone on Facebook. Today we're going to go over millennial podcasting and talking about how you guys can appeal to more millennials this year. And also some fun statistics we discovered along the way of researching this topic and seeing what it was like and whatnot. Yeah. So today we're going to talk about creating a show that appeals to millennials. And I think a good place to start is let's start by defining millennial. So a lot of people think about it as 90s babies, right? Millennials are 90s babies. But the most significant, I think, identifier of millennial is that we grew up with the Internet. We sort of have no concept of a life before the Internet, but we do remember life before cell phones and things like that, because we still sort of grew up as those things are coming about. So that's a good way to define Millennial. Whereas a Gen Z er, they don't know life without cell phones. They don't know life without, like, apps and social Media and things. And with Millennials, social media was sort of birthed in that generation.

And me and you are in a unique little faction of millennials, because we cusp of, I guess, the last generation of millennials, we were both born. I was born in 95. You were also born in 95. Correct?

Yep.

Awesome. Yeah, we were both born in 95, exactly. We're right on that cusp of millennial versus Gen Z. So I feel like we have a very good understanding of both millennials and both Gen Z traits. And I think that, at least for me personally, I adopt both sides as well. Like you said, we grew up when the Internet was coming to fashion, when it was coming to be as useful as everyone utilizes it today. And over it's coming more real. That at least me and you, Alex, we completely understand that on that side as well. But, yeah, usually when millennial is defined, I kind of put it into a group that makes it easier. For me, it's between early 1980s and early 1990s as well. That's kind of where millennials ages tend to wage. And like you said, millennials, we're tech savvy. That's how we are. We're the ultimate connection between technology and real life, in my opinion. I think it's a kind of cool position we got ourselves in. Not only are Millennials technologically savvy and connected, but they're transparent. I feel like we've been a generation that has wanted to open the doors to transparency. Less shows like showman type, being something you aren't isn't kind of in our forte anymore. That makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah. So for a frame of reference for everyone who hasn't been introduced to you before, Cody works in our sales department with Tom, and he helps acquire new shows for our company. And he also works on a podcast called We Watch it, which is all about today's movies and cultural context of them, what makes content good and what makes content attractive and sticky. And they talk about that kind of stuff a lot. So that's why we brought him on today. He brought up an excellent point here, transitioning into transparency. So when we're talking about shows that appeal to millennials, really we're talking about what's going to attract millennials, what do they gravitate towards. And what Cody and I have really sort of figured out is it's kind of more honesty, transparency. Like he was saying, vulnerability and building a community are some of the big things that millennials look for in their content. They look for a place where you're gonna share the gritty details that you might not have elsewhere. They wanna feel like they're getting the rawest information they possibly can because, in all honesty, the Internet showed us that prior to the Internet, people were trying to trick us quite a bit and we couldn't do our own research all the time.

Exactly.

And so now I feel like everyone I know who's a millennial, we. And find out what's the new thing and. Oh, what's that? Oh, I didn't know that. Like, I just learned last night that dairy is the most expensive milk as far as how it's produced and the cost on the environment. It is the most expensive cost on the environment out of all kinds of milk you could have as compared to soy, almond, and all these other things. That kind of stuff never would have known if it wasn't for the Internet being born. So we love when you want to give us those details that aren't out there yet.

Exactly. We're in the alignment with this relationship that we have with the Internet and with our peers. It's straightforward. There's no quote unquote bs. There's no hiding. I mean, obviously it's tough nowadays because you have a platform to present yourself in a way that you wish people can view you and stuff. And I feel like a lot of that has attached itself to the Gen Z relationship with the Internet, which makes sense. It's a crazy, weird time to be born in.

Yeah. And I think that's where you look at the differences between what Gen Z is consuming and what millennials are consuming, which is why we're focusing on transparency, honesty, and vulnerability. When you look at Gen Z, they've sort of attached to almost this faux honesty by mistake. Almost. Sometimes by mistake, exactly. They can sometimes stumble into that. And so you get a lot of more people who are putting on a Persona, whereas millennials are more attracted to someone who just comes as they are, is themselves, and isn't putting on a Persona. And now that doesn't mean they're not. They might not still be put together and, like, idle in the. In the eye of that listener. Right? Yeah, but that's how they like to feel. You're presenting yourself in an honest, authentic way. Whatever that means for you.

Exactly. Now, a big staple that's tied to millennials while we're on this sort of topic is that we value, like, straightforward management and recognition. There's always a reward attached to that. For some reason, this trope has come out that we've been handed trophies all of Our lives, we understand participation, but not winning. Now, I would argue that I was raised a little bit differently, but I could say that the recognition part is actually very important because it's not. Some generations before us, they just keep going. There's no pat on the back, there's no development, there's no growth, there's no change. And that's just something that we value. Straightforward management, recognition. And not only that, but what's really cool about us is we're in a position for working with the most diverse oriented situations and collaboration. That's the kind of really cool thing that I love about our generation, is we desire diverse work. We desire collaboration. Yes, we can do our research on our own, like you suggested earlier.

But our favorite is when our influencers, whoever you're listening to. Right?

It's a community. Yeah.

Exactly. And we don't always have to have the same ideals. That's why I think that diverse part is the most attractive to me. And we're just. We love everything. I don't know, it's. That's just how I am. We're little daisies in our hairs, dancing everywhere. That's kind of like an Internet meme version of what, I guess, quote unquote, people view millennials as. And you know what? I take that with pride a little bit. That's how I am.

For me, I just think it's this wanting to be authentic. And so you do. Millennials have gotten a bad rap for being the person who's on the Internet bawling their eyes out, or the person on the Internet yelling at someone else. And that can happen. That's the negative side of the coin for sure. But I feel like as millennials, when you're showing up authentically, we're gonna sit and listen for a time and see if it's worthwhile to stay. And you, as podcasters, can capitalize on that time exactly once we've arrived. Right. And the idea is, once we get there, how are you making sure that content's gonna keep us there? If we're your target audience, and we might not be, which is also okay. You might learn that today as well as we talk about what millennials are attracted to and what they're buying and things, as we get into the statistics, you might find that they're actually not your niche, and that's also informative. So then let's go on to what shows do we personally listen to? So just to give you a frame of context, some shows that I listen to and Cody listens to and what also a lot of our friends listen to. So I listen to some true crimes, basically true stories that people are sharing. My husband and I right now are loving Mr. Ballin on YouTube. He's awesome. Telling amazing stories just that are crazy. You never thought would be real. But these people really went through these things and that just speaks to that authenticity. Honestly, it has no relevance to my life, no relevance to learning something greater. It's just interesting to hear about these stories that these people went through that are unfathomable. And then the other ones I listen to are a lot of parenting, foster care, podcasts, other people just sharing about mental health podcasts, things that are relevant to me in my life and topics. Cody, what about you?

Well, for me personally, like you introduced earlier, that I have a podcast and we talk about movies and such. So that's a big life of mine that I celebrate all the time. I'm at the movies like twice a week, different times now I'm not there anymore. But anyways, what I personally like to listen to is a lot of entertainment podcasts or interviews with creatives that I admire or look up to and people that work really hard at being authentic. There's a podcaster, his name is Dax Shepard. You might know him, he's a celebrity. He used to work on Punk'd. That's how he got his, like, stardom. And he has a podcast, it's called Armchair Expert. And he coins himself as an armchair expert. Someone who isn't necessarily the biggest expert on a specific topic, but wants to learn more. And so when he brings guests on, obviously they're here to promote a movie or here to promote like a TV show. But he gets to know them through them, not necessarily to help promote everything. Because what we're here to do is have an authentic conversation and see growth. And that's something I'm personally attracted to. I like all the behind the scenes stuff. So when they get to talk about behind the scenes on some of the favorite projects that they worked on or such, that's great. But he's also opened my eye up to multiple different things because not only does he bring on celebrities, but he brings on influencers that he has in the real world. We'll talk something like politically or something that is a little bit like of a trope out there. He likes to come in and really understand and become expert instead of an armchair expert, if that makes sense. That's a really great show.

That makes a lot of sense. I think that that's the trend, in all honesty, I'M finding in the podcast that millennials seem to keep consuming is it's this trend of whatever the topic is, honesty, and it's relevant to the topic the person is looking for. So, for example, when I'm researching how to build a bookshelf, for example, in my home, I'm going to first go to Google, and Google knows that I like podcasts and YouTube first. So it's going to serve me up podcasts of people who have done it, talking about what they've done, and it's going to serve me up YouTube videos also. So that's just a frame of reference for why it's important to understand where each niche you're targeting consumes and what type they consume and what they're looking for. So a lot of times we're looking for, is it relevant to that topic, that question we have, and normally we're typing it just right into Google. That's how millennials research. We literally just go, oh, you want to know that? Type it in. I can't even tell you how many times in the office here, Tom or Tracy will be like, alexandra, I don't know how to do this. How do you do it? And I'm like, well, I don't know either. Did you Google it? And so that's literally what we do. We'll start with Google, and then we'll see what happens there. Where do we go? And from there, you start researching further and getting into your deeper, more credible sources. Right. And the same thing goes with podcasting. Find the right podcast. Normally, that podcast might not be the perfect podcast, but a guest on that podcast might be, and they might have a podcast, and you see how the trend continues and how it's all connected. Which is why we make it so important that we're linking the shows you're mentioning in your blog posts. We're linking them in the important link section, too. So that way you're getting all those backlinks to those places, and we're all building that connection tree together and that community together. So then why would you want to attract millennials? Why bother? Right? What's the point?

Well, to be honest, youngins listening to me, what's the point?

Yeah, I mean, some of you might be like, why do I even care if millennials like me? I don't think they're my target. Well, millennials buy everything. They buy everything? Yeah, they do. They buy everything. And as we were researching this, Cody found a Y poll survey. Do you want to go through the statistics you found, Cody?

Of course.

Or do you want me to?

I can go ahead. Yeah. Best way I guess you can tack on attracting millennials is we found that there's a couple statistics that kind of prove of what is going on with younger consumers. Right. Connection rapport is built that we trust in advertisements. I know, it's kind of really weird. A lot of people, you would think, skip through advertisements, but if you can make advertisements work for a specific niche in a specific group, you'll actually learn that you can monetize off of some of these specific age groups. Now, stats From February of 2021 white poll survey says that 62% of young consumers, that's 13 to 39 years old in age listen to podcasts. So that's more than half of the young consumers listening to podcasts right there. So that's just utilizing and understanding that data right there alone might want you to open up your niche or open up your listener track, possibly because there's more numbers that we got to go through. But of that, 26 are reporting that they listen to podcasts every week. Now, that's actually a really great statistic, knowing that they're going weekly to their favorite shows, to their favorite content, and it's not a TV show, it's a simple audio. It's pretty awesome. 44% listen to podcast ads. So of the 26 and the 62% we're taking, 44% of them listen to podcast ads. They are listening to them. There's a reason why they're listening to them. But here's the thing. One out of ten are usually buying services off ads. I am guilty for buying services from a podcast ad myself.

Me too.

It happens all the time. They're very attractive, and there's discount codes all the time. So it's a great place for me to learn about new products.

We'll talk about why a little later.

Yeah. Now, 50% of young people who listen to podcasts told us that they would rather listen to a podcast, then watch a TV commercial.

Listen to a podcast. Yeah. Then watch a.

Listen to a podcast ad, then watch a TV commercial. 50% of young people, they would rather listen to ads than watch ads because it's getting in the way of their visual entertainment. Now, when you're listening to it, you can have a really good way to hook them and listen to that ad. And we've noticed a couple other things, too. Right now, Gen Z is just as likely to be listening to podcasts as millennials. Now, they took a couple polls here. Now, when they listen to podcasts do they listen to ads? That's the biggest question for you, monetizing your podcast. Right. And so 44% said, yes, I listen to the ads, 44% said, no, I skipped the ads, or 11% say, I pay for ad. Free podcasts. So little to none are going the route of where they're subscribing to podcasts and getting rid of advertisements. No one's really going that extra step to pay for that because it's part of what they're going to listen to. They want to hear that engagement, and it's kind of very unique. And how do you feel about that, Alex? Isn't that very interesting?

Yeah, I think it, it speaks to the fact that millennials, when they start to build that rapport and trust with an influencer, they start becoming a weekly listener. They expect that if you're serving them up an ad, it's relevant and it's going to be something disc that's going to help their life and they should probably listen up. So when I have, for example, if Mr. Ballin does an ad, I'm going to listen to his ad every time all the way through, and I'm going to take the time to listen what he says. Now, if he's the one giving the ad meaning, he's the one speaking it. I'm way more likely to listen than I am if it's some random other external advertisement he's inserting from, like, Nike. Right?

Exactly. There's trust. There's that vulnerability that he's been able to showcase to you. And you trust this product. You trust this advertisement because it's coming from him. Now, when we look at the statistics at what kind of podcast ad style do young consumers prefer? That's what you were getting into. See an improvised one by the podcast host. 60% of people are more likely to engage with that podcast advertisement if it's improvised by the podcast host.

60%. That's huge.

60%. Now you're looking down at the bottom numbers too. Now, a scripted one, that's only 23%. That's insane. Now, an ad from a brand that doesn't have a podcast host in it, barely anyone's engaging with that at all. Because why? Why do you think that? In my opinion, I think because I have built trust with this podcast host and they're being able to deliver me means to a product that would serve me well, I'm more likely going to take their word and than a fabricated commercial made to appeal to a mass audience rather than me specifically, if that Makes sense now.

No, that makes complete sense. And I also think that for me, honestly, when I start to see an influencer or podcast host start to use advertisements that aren't scripted by them or aren't read by them, I start to be like, what's going on here?

Yeah, interesting.

Why are we starting to serve up stuff that isn't as valuable to me as the listeners? And I may start stop listening as often because to me the whole point is, what value are you bringing to my life that I should spend an hour listening to you talk to me?

Exactly.

Without getting anything in return. And normally that value is knowledge or understanding of some greater topic, which is super valuable. But if you're going to serve me up an ad too, I want that ad to be valuable. And because we've been advertised to ourselves since literally birth.

Oh yeah. We are literally advertisement.

Everything has been tracked our whole lives. And like, it'll be even more so for the generations to come.

Oh yeah.

But we literally have experience ads all our lives. So when we hear a classic ad, we turn off immediately. We don't listen. We might not even hear the message. Our ears are just tuning out at that point. There are even times nowadays I'll see a TV ad and I don't even realize an ad is playing because I'm so out tuning it out already. I'm like, oh, I find myself in that situation. Yeah. So yeah, so just keep that in mind here. That's what these statistics are just reinforcing our Cody's and my life experience and what we've experienced in our peers and community here. We've noticed these y post survey has completely reinforced what we were seeing in the trends as well, which is super awesome polling. Yeah. This is between 16 and 34 year olds. So we are capturing the little gen zers there so you can see how the current consumer, young consumer would respond. So the last one is we have here is have they ever purchased or tried something from an ad they've heard? Now, those who listen to ads, over 35% of those who have listened just listen to the ad are actually buying. That is a higher conversion rate than any other ad model we've seen ever. And that is the same conversion rate Tom and Tracy and I have found with 3D Start Point, our 3D printing podcast. When we've done all our testing of the ad conversions there with that podcast, that podcast got our greatest following and we ended up rolling out ads for hp. And we've tested conversions on other ads in the past and they all came out to 35 to 37%, depending on the campaign as well. So that is compatible. That is an amazing conversion rate. We have been testing Facebook ads and things for just ads not within a podcast, and those are never as high as that for a conversion rate. They're usually in the 2 to 3% if you're lucky and have a really good campaign running, you'll be lucky if you get 1% if it's not a great campaign. Right. So this is amazing. And I think that a lot of you could find benefits to running even just ads on your. Anyway, so I think that a lot of us can learn a lot from these statistics. And what you will also find is we are more likely to buy something from you as the host as well. So that's the one statistic we weren't finding in this survey. But one thing I can say is that I am more likely to buy an ad from an influencer if it's literally them saying, like, I know you guys needed this thing, so I made it. Here you go, you now you have it, and I'll give bucks, 10 bucks for whatever that solution is. That's minor. Like, for example, I recently been struggling with how to, like, deep clean my home, because that's the first home I've lived in where I've been there long enough to, like, deep clean it. And I've never had to do that before. So fortunate for me, I've never had to. And so now I'm like, what do you do to deep clean? You have to shampoo carpets, you have to wash walls. How do you wash walls without ruining paint? That's something I've never had to learn before. And so these are things that an influencer I follow teaches their followers, and she puts up PDFs for you that help you figure it out. So perfect example of where I'd be willing to spend a small amount of money. But when you multiply that by your 35% of your listeners, that's huge to get a little bit back. So you can reinvest in the podcast or reinvest in a new avenue in your business that the podcast is supporting or whatever it may be.

It's good to notice and understand so you can utilize it for your listener engagement. It's fantastic data.

Okay, so then one thing we were talking about a lot in today was how to build that connection that attracts millennials, that gets them to buy. It's about building that rapport and community. Like we said, vulnerability and honesty. Like we said at the beginning, you Want to be there to edutain, meaning like your education first. Right. Entertainment second, as the focus. But you still have to focus on both because you got to keep them coming back for more. Right?

Yep.

So, yeah. And then in order to not just attract, but retain those listeners, those millennial listeners, as Cody was saying, you want to grow and evolve as a host and show that growth. Live with us showing that vulnerability and change over time. Because if we see you growing, we're going to be willing to do what's being asked of us as well. Because a lot of times you're. Even if you're asking them to buy something or do something, it's usually grow their life in some way, shape or form. And so if you're. You two are showing and sharing that growth, they're going to be way more likely to buy in.

Yeah.

So to sum it up, I think that really is the cap, I think, on millennial podcasting, what attracts them? Honesty, vulnerability, edutainment. As I was saying, continuing to evolve as we continue to grow as a podcast. Right. You're growing with your community.

Exactly.

So showing that, sharing your journey. Does anyone have any questions they want to ask? I know we've had a lot of people actually on the whole time, which is really cool. I'm also going to pull up Facebook.

And see if we saw Owen and Pratt. Thank you. Wayne King.

Yes. Thank you guys so much for joining today.

If any of you have questions. But yeah, like we were saying, I know that there was a lot of time spent on, okay, like, how do I take advantage of millennials, how do I monetize them? And so just understanding, like, the ads and that data and applying it, if that's your listener's niche, if that's what you want to be utilizing, just understand that data. It's not something that is a tactic thing that we're trying to set up for you. It's literally just so you can understand, what are millennials, what are we interested in? And how can we help them grow their community, grow their attachments, and grow their engagement with me as well? Because more than anything, I think that we've really touched on today was transparency and vulnerability.

Right. And going off of that, Ann actually asked a great question. She said, how do you best show vulnerability versus being an expert? I think the biggest thing is being willing to show your mistakes and share them. And if that means you're framing them so that way you don't look like an idiot in some way, shape or form. Right. We're not saying to make yourself look bad. But we're saying just to be like, I learned a lesson here. And so it was an important mistake I made. And sharing that with everyone, sharing that lesson and why it was important you made that mistake, that is how you show your vulnerability while still being an expert in the topic and still maintaining that authority. Right. All the time. I will admit that I have no idea what that website platform is. I know a lot of website platforms, a lot more than anyone in the company. I probably know the most everyone here, but I still don't know them all. And today I got asked of one I didn't know about. And so I still have to do that research and learn about that. And sometimes I might make a mistake along the way in that new platform as well. But that helps me learn and grow for the next client that might have that platform. Right. That's a perfect example of that.

Yeah. With that client who you were dealing with, as long as you set up for them that I actually don't know that site. So instead of setting yourself up for not necessarily a lie, are you trying to come across as someone who is, quote, unquote, good at their job or knows what they're doing, if that makes sense. That little moment of showing them that you're another human being who also kind of doesn't know everything, doesn't necessarily make mistakes, but showing that vulnerability to us shows me that I can trust you. You can grow. You're human. I'm human, too. Who am I talking to? Am I talking to a human? Am I talking about someone who's just here for likes? Am I talking about someone who's just here for money? Or are you trying to grow a community with me? So I think that you touched on a really cool thing with that.

Yeah. So then Ann also asks how to balance depth of content insights versus being to the point, slash, low attention span. So I think you're saying how to balance, like, low attention spans with depth of content. Yeah, I mean, I don't think that millennials actually have short attention spans. I think that's a misconception. I think because we can multitask and a lot of us actually have discovered were neurodivergent. I think that a lot of people think that we have low attention spans as a result. But the reality, I think, is that we actually just want to get our teeth sunk into something that we can really grow with and apply. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

So I think that as long as you're providing something that is truly applicable to whatever area of life you're helping them with, then I think you should go. As long as the topic is needed. Obviously you don't want to overspeak over repeat yourself. We definitely don't want that. No one wants that. But especially in this low attention span time we are in, you are right in that if it doesn't capture us and keep us, we're going to leave. But if it's valuable and honest and applicable, you're going to have us there every single time. And how do you make sure it is that way? Honesty and vulnerability and sharing the things that applied to you and the other listeners. A lot of times you'll get comments on social media, you'll get people asking you questions. What are those people always asking? If you don't have listeners yet you're new, what are your clients always asking you that you know they want more of? What are your customers listening to or asking you that they always want more of? That's where you start. If you don't necessarily have a listener base yet that's giving you feedback.

It's almost like back to the basics too as well. Titling show descriptions. If I'm already clicking and if I'm already in the podcast, you got me. That's how we are as a millennial. I'll tell you what, if I clicked on it, if I'm here, you have me. You showcased what this episode is about. What's this topic about? If you can, that first little thing when I tune in and I'm hearing, okay, cool, I'm actually going to get answers to questions when I look at this title or if I look at this topic, if I'm getting that right away, kind of starting in with the conversation in mind. Not the long intros, not the long setup. And you've learned all this throughout these other coaching calls and such. But if I'm clicked and I'm already in and I'm already listening, you already have me. So if you keep that in mind, as when you are uploading your episodes, or if you're framing out your episodes, keep in mind of when you're divulging in the information and going into the podcast, I've already clicked, I'm already here. You already have me. Now tell me, talk to me.

Right?

Want to hear it? I want to listen.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And all of that work to make sure you're getting found. That's what the transcriptions on the SEO is doing for you, the website work, all that stuff we're doing that is working to make sure. You're being found when we are searching and Google these questions. Right. Like I was saying at the beginning of how millennials like to find things, all of those blog posts, we have the SEO built from that. That's how they're finding things, and that's why we have you do those. So then Wayne in the chat asks recommendations for going from here to identifying who to solicit for advertising. Okay. This is what I always say when people come to me, like, who do I solicit for advertising? I get that question so often. And I always say, who are you already working with? As like a vendor or a partner? Is my first question. So the first place, like real estate's a great example because normally you have a large network of different professionals or independent contractors you can use. But basically, if you are a real estate agent, let's say you have a broker you always use for your houses you refer your clients to. Maybe you have a credit agency that helps you with credit. It helps your clients improve their credit, teaches them about that. Maybe that's someone who wants to advertise. Maybe you also have a specific, like I said, a brokerage company that wants to advertise or a house. What is it called when you basically like a decor company that sets the whole house for sale, like whatever that's called. Yes, you can see, I don't know much about this topic.

I need Google. I'm a millennial.

I know, right? But anyway, the point is just those sort of things would be great for a realtor or a real estate agent podcast, right? To include as advertisements on their show that's relevant to the listener still and is an easy person to solicit first. There are also people who are normally a little forgiving. If you're running your first ad campaign and you want to do something where it's like 100 bucks even for the month, and you advertise the whole month and just so you can test it out for them and they tell you how many sales they got. As a good starting point, you can do that, but everyone's different. It all depends on the arrangement with that individual, what they want to do. But as far as who to solicit, I think you just start with your current network of vendors that you have. From there, you look at what are vendors I don't have, but what like, are still relevant to this community. Right. That I could reach out to. Now, when you start doing that, though, they are usually going to want to look at your overall download numbers or something like that to sort of figure out if it'll be worth their dollar because they've never met you before. That's why I say maybe if you never solicited someone for advertising and it's your first relationship, it might be more forgiving to enter into that with someone who you already have a relationship with. So that way you can figure it out together and then go from there for your next one. So, yeah, fantastic suggestion. Yeah.

So then Ann asks, how long for a show intro outro framing episode, do you suggest? So I think Tracy does this fabulously. I would go listen to the Binge Factor to get a great example of how to do this, but basically, Tracy, what she always does is she basically just talks about how excited she is for the conversation. In the intro, it's usually five minutes or less. Sometimes she even has them super short and sweet and they're like, like two and a half minutes. But you can go up to 10 minutes. But I feel like that gets a little long. Five's probably your sweet spot. But again, I hate giving people time frames because it's really. What does it feel right? What feels right? And I know that sounds weird, but as you get podcasting and you start talking, you'll understand what I mean by it feels like you've covered it fully, but you didn't overdo it, Right?

Exactly. I don't want to know all the information from you. I want to hear the engagement from the topic on, everyone presenting on the topic. Like, I would rather much hear everyone talk about it rather than someone set up what you're about to talk about. I'm a big fan of getting in there.

Right. So a lot of times Tracy will just say, hey, I'm super excited for this conversation today. They share some amazing nuggets about X, Y and Z. I'm going to end up talking about it at the end a little bit, so stay tuned because I want to make sure you hear some added stuff. I want to frame the conversation with. Now, I'm saying this because I'm not specifying a topic, so I'm using terms framing and generalizing. But you would be specific. Right. To whatever the topic is and you'd frame it for them. Right. And you'd say, I'm going to cover a few things that I thought were super important at the end. So make sure you stay tuned. And then you go ahead and you have the interview. Let it go. I never end up. I tell people, don't interrupt your guests and, like, say something added because they didn't cover it. But you Want to make sure it's covered? Like if that doesn't flow with the conversation, don't do that. Just flow the conversation and the interview through. And then at the end when the guest is gone, you'll say, oh, thanks so much for the interview. Have a great day. Don't close your zoom, stop your recording or pause it and then restart it and record your ending. And that's where you do your framing. And you just had your interview, so your framing is going to be super concise and clear. Your thoughts are already at the forefront of your mind and now your episode's been fully recorded. And then Tracy does her intro. That's when she records it is after she's already done her framing. So she already has collected her closing thoughts and then she does her intro. So that way it's full circle for the listener when they started it at the beginning, five minutes, Right.

That's the best way to do it.

Yeah. It's almost like when you watch a TV show, you know how sometimes you'll be engaged with such an action packed scene or something super juicy and then you get a title sequence that showcases three days earlier or something like that. It's almost like giving us the real raw action and then how did we get there? And so when you. Something I like to do is I write stories. When you write stories, a lot of the time the way that I apply it is I think of the end in mind before I think of the beginning, if that makes sense. If I know what I've gone through, if I know the topic and I know the content, your intro is going to be framed perfectly for that. So if you know exactly what was discussed, what information was there, it's really going to help you frame that show intro to something that really sets it up. Like you're setting it up and throwing it there. But if you have all the information in hand, it's going to make it a lot easier process for you, if that makes sense.

Right. And like for example, when we do these client coaching calls, a lot of times Tom and Tracy will frame them. And you guys don't even hear that on this live because there's no need. You guys would be like, why are we sitting here while you do this?

Right, exactly.

So they'll do it after. So yeah, Ann, I would definitely go ahead and have your interview or do your topic if it's solo out topic and then do your ending, closing thoughts to summarize, sort of the main points you want to highlight or the main point of the whole thing. Whatever it was. And then I would go to your intro and say, hey, I'm super excited for today's topic. We're going to touch on a few things. Make sure you stay to the end for this or that, and I hope you learned something along the way. Let's go. And it's like you're with us. We're going on a journey together. Right. That's how I guess millennials, right, want to see their content or want to get attracted to now, that's also maybe how other generations do too. But today we're just focusing on millennials.

Specifically from our perspective as well.

Right. As millennials.

Yay.

Yeah. All right. That's all the questions that we had.

Thank you, Owen. Thank you, Ann. Thank you, Wayne.

Yes. Thank you, everyone for your questions and for hanging through the whole thing with us. We appreciate that.

Yeah. Thank you, Christina. Making sure we under of questions from Facebook too. Yeah.

All right, Awesome. I checked Facebook and there's no other ones there. I think we'll close out for the day.

Perfect.

I hope you guys have a wonderful rest of your week. And if you guys have any more questions on this topic, feel free to send them over to helpapoditize.com and we'll get some stuff added into the FAQ on it as well. All of these client coaching calls will eventually be added to the resources on Potitize and FAQ on Potitize, but as you know, we're revamping our organization system so it's more searchable for all of you clients. And once I have that done, I will officially post it for you all. But you can find those in our main menu on our website as they stand today if you're looking for them. Thanks so much, everyone, and I hope you guys have a great rest of your week.

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