How to Record a Podcast Interview: The Broadcast-Style Pacing Framework

This is Feed Your Brand with hosts Tom Hazzard and Tracy Hazzard.

Welcome back to Feed Your Brand. I'm Tom Hazzard along with my co-host Tracy Hazzard. Today we're going to have a little different take on a topic that's always been very popular amongst our listeners and our customers, and that is regarding podcast Interview tips. Um, so Tracy, why don't you share what our little bit different take on this is today, how we're expanding this to help everyone on this popular subject.

So we've already talked about structuring the best podcast interview questions, which really helps you with the interviewing thing. And that, I think that's our most popular YouTube video ever and our most popular coaching class, if you wanna think of it like that. Like, It's the one that gets reviewed again and again and again, and it's 6 years old now. So like, and it still holds up. So that one is really important and that's about interview tips in terms of how to ask questions. And then we have the best interview opening questions, right? The ones that sort of sets the tone for everything. And we did that one more recently, um, in the last couple of years. And that one is also is one of our top 10 of all the coaching topics we've done. So people come back to these again and again, but now we wanna talk a little bit about how to structure all of that, right? How do you record this in a way that makes your guests comfortable, that makes it easy to do all of that? So we're gonna talk about the recording structure and the podcast interview structure itself as another layer of tips for that, because those are questions we get all the time as well.

Sounds good. Well, I hope everyone gets as good value out of this and it's as popular as some of the other ones, cuz it is, you know, the most sought after topic among next hour content. So let's see where to begin. So we're talking about the structure. So Tracy, I imagine we're gonna suggest you don't just record your entire episode with your guest live and from linearly from start to finish.

Well, we do. If you're gonna do a livestream, we do it here, right? You do it that same way. So you can do it. With your guest there if you need to do it in a structural way. But it's actually much more conducive to the editing process, right? To being able to do it into segments later is the way that we found is the best recording pace for an interview.

I agree. In fact, I would venture so far as to say, unless you are live streaming your content, we are with this podcast, although most of the time we don't have a guest, it's just you and me, so that's a little different. But unless you're going to livestream your episode recording, I actually recommend you never record it in that way from start to finish linearly. There are some advantages to a different approach, right?

Absolutely. So let's talk about the structure that we think goes really well. Now keep in mind, this isn't like us deciding this is how it should be for podcasting. It is also how it is done in the major broadcast interview world. So if you look at professional interviewers, what they do is they sit down with someone, they shake their hand, they have a nice introduction to them, or they regreet them again. Welcome. I'm so glad to see you again. And they do all of that. That doesn't usually make it into the final edit of a 60 Minutes segment or something like that. It just doesn't. TV cuts and edits all of the interviews anyway. So thinking about that, but you do have to have this sort of like comfort building process. And we wanna do that, but do we necessarily wanna do it with our audience watching? And that's a question that most of us have. So many of us have the structure where we start up a Zoom, we invite our guest in, we chitchat for a little bit, and then we turn the recording on, right? So we've done that, I'm gonna call it like get to know you piece to make the guest comfortable. So when you do what Tom was saying and you just are like, okay, we're going recording and we're live, you're going into this formal process without that comfort transition that really is important to get your guests to feel relaxed and ready to open up and ready to chat with you. So when you look at this sort of comfort zone area that you wanna create, You need to create some space for that in your recording structure. And I recommend it not being on air because not having the recording on is actually the ideal part for this. By not having the recording on, I'm setting a rapport with the person. I'm letting them ask their questions. I'm letting them get their nerves out without the recording on. That has a trust-building part of the process. So it is critically important.

You know, it has a trust-building part of the process. I agree with that. Some people, when that little recording light goes on, they feel a lot more pressure, they get a lot more nervous, they're out of sorts. However, I can tell you, Tracy Hazzard, I've experienced a lot more people coming to us over the years literally in tears because they forgot to put the recording on. So I really don't recommend that. I recommend your meetings automatically set to record. You record the whole thing. You just put your guest at ease that We're not going to air all of this. We're just talking here, right? We're just getting to know each other a little bit.

And that's fine too. I like to turn mine on and make it a more formal part of the process, but I've also done thousands of interviews, so I'm— if I forget to do the recording, it'd be shocking. But it is this idea, and I, I think you're really right about that, Tom. I mean, if you're a new person to it, you need a process that's gonna be guaranteed to not fail for you. You want to just have this sort of buffer zone if, and that's what we're creating in here. We're creating this buffer zone before the official stuff starts. But at the same time, I've also seen people like go through all their questions. Like I've been on the receiving end, the guest on this situation where they ask all this stuff and they get all in and we do all the good stuff before you start the, you start to air it. So you just want this to be a meet and greet. Think about it like that. That's what this is. This is about, and then asking them if they have any questions or anything that they would like to feel more comfortable about or. And a lot of times if you have a good guest, they'll say, well, who's your real— who's your audience? And who am I talking to? And where should I direct my stories? A really good guest knows to ask that. So if you haven't given it to them in prep, of course, right? You may have already given them that information, but that part of it is actually going to be really good at getting you in. The other thing that happens there is that when you then start recording, there is an energy of rapport. And that's really good because your audience feels that. They feel like you know each other, even if you've just met 5 minutes before.

That's really important. I agree that how you get that across, how that's presented to your audience can make a huge difference. And I agree, it's not always— you shouldn't always just air the first thing first, right? And the second thing second. Because it may not be the most engaging. You know, we've talked in one of our previous episodes about asking the best opening questions. Maybe you didn't ask the best opening question first. You asked it second or third. You know, you have the opportunity to fix those things, right?

Absolutely. So, and anyone who thinks that it doesn't work like that in the real world, in the real broadcasting world, right? You know, I mean, you're mistaking yourself, right? Like, because Even Howard Stern sits down with his guests before they hit the on button. I mean, they're, they're sitting there together. They're in the studio together, in the green room together with, uh, you know, on a TV show or talk show, there is a pre-interview. Some production team member went and pre-interviewed someone. Like there's a whole bunch of B-roll and other things that have happened before the interview ha— that you think is happening on air had a lot of prep work to it that you may not wanna do. So the best way to create that atmosphere is to have this buffer zone, 5 minutes of just, um, of meeting and greeting. Now we wanna jump into the interview because that's, we have the energy for that and we don't wanna waste this time of going back to the beginning. And this is where that transition fails so often, Tom, right? There is no authority introduction that is going on and there's no context as to why they're your guest. Almost every TV show, talk show, everything like that tells you why this person is critically important to this point in time to be bringing on a show. Now, it could be something really personal, like why I've invited you on this show is really a personal story. I gotta tell it. Do I really want to tell it now that I— it sounds like complete introduction after I've already gotten to that trust point and we're ready to start chatting? I wanna do that separately. And so Tom and I have always had this process of we jump into it, we do our little meet and greet, we jump into our interview, we end that, and then we come back to do our introduction. And this is exactly the way it works in broadcasting too, right? Because they will figure out what they're gonna edit, they edit the whole meat of it, and then they go back and they do that little introduction piece and they write that separately. So it is done after the fact almost all the time in every good interview you have ever watched. Very rarely, except on maybe a stage interview, because that's a little bit different, but there is almost always an introduction part to the guest or to the speaker, right? So there's a transition there that it almost never happens in an interview process.

Well, when you think about it, it makes a lot of sense because the only kind of an introduction you could do to a guest, if you're doing it before you ask them any questions, before you've had a conversation and you really don't know what they're gonna say yet is a very generic kind of introduction, their background, where they're from, what their claim to fame is, why you invited them on the show. Maybe, sure, you might know that cuz you had a good reason, hopefully why you did, but you can't tease to any part of what you're gonna hear in that interview. You can't foreshadow anything cuz you don't know what's gonna happen yet. This is where the opportunities come from recording the interview first and again, going back. And now recording an introduction that either has a lot more relevant current context and/or, and I would say more and than or honestly, has, you are not going to believe what Tracy said. And when I asked her about this, and you leave that dangling and hanging out there for the listener, like, oh yeah, I got to watch this, or I got to listen to this. I want to hear that. And so you build anticipation. And get people sitting on the edge of their seat wanting to hear what's coming.

Absolutely. And you know, Tom, this is such a good point to be making, is that in this day and age with the short attention spans we have, if you're not getting that tease, you're not getting that draw in in the very beginning, and you do this generic opener, you sit there and read somebody's bio, like, oh my God, that is just terrible. It's not going to draw the audience in to listen to the interview. And you're not gonna get them through your episode like you want them to. So this is a way to create an energy of excitement and anticipation for the interview.

I really, a lot of times when I hear an interview, a host, you know, starting an interview and it's really obvious they're reading a bio cuz it's very mechanical and it doesn't have the normal tone and you know, it often doesn't sound the same. It's like, oh my gosh, I wanna pull the plug right now on listening to this episode. So I really, if I ever read a bio and we've done it when we've interviewed people where there's a key point, if I'm gonna read from the bio, I actually tell listeners, all right, listeners, I'm actually gonna read this part to you cuz I wanna make sure I don't get it wrong. It's like involved or something. And I tell 'em, so I'm, I'm quoting part of the bio, but I'm not delivering the whole introduction that way.

Yeah. A lot of times I'll take the bio and I'll make bullet points from it so that I don't mess up what college they went to or whatever their title is, the name of their book. I don't wanna mess those things up. But I really, I've digested it and absorbed it, and now I turn it into my own thing. You know what fascinates me the most about Tom Hazard is, and so I turn it into my own thing, and that is a really useful thing. So this is doing introductions. We actually have another episode we did on that as well, so we'll definitely link that in the blog post for this episode so you can get to, to that and the other ones we referred to earlier. But the whole point of this introduction is what we call an authority transfer, an authority introduction, and it creates context and a power to listen, to require listening to this great guest that you've invited. So when you put in the why, why they're here, it could be your personal why, why you invited them. It could be a contextual why as to what's going on in the world today, and that's why you invited them, right? That happens. All the time on a news show. And when you then give them the authority to— on something, on some area, on some reason for them being there that's authoritative, you're transferring your trust you built with your audience to open their ears to listen to that guest.

That's really powerful. I don't think a lot of podcasters really understand that power that they have. And it's a reason why we really recommend you don't choose your guests too casually, meaning you don't just take anyone on your show. And there are some people that do. It's like, oh, I need all kinds of guests. I want to fill my calendar. And they're just looking for warm bodies. It's going to come across. And you're transferring your authority to someone who's kind of lousy. I've had an interview like that. Well, not that— I mean, I guess we did. We were care— always careful in who we invited. We didn't just invite anybody, but I've got someone that I can't really sugarcoat it or make it sound nicer than it was. I got someone that was a real wet blanket of an interview subject. I mean, nothing interesting at all, even though they had some good credentials, which led to booking the interview. And honestly, I didn't air it. I didn't publish it. It was that bad.

Right. And this is— be picky about it. If your reason for inviting them on is clear, and it can be some topic reason, right? Make sure that they're gonna be good conversationalists about the topic before you invite them on. And back when we were first doing this, it wasn't so easy because not everybody had done podcast interviews and not everyone had a YouTube video and They weren't always doing video on social, so it was typing, so you would see what they wrote, but that didn't necessarily mean they were good conversationalists. But today there's no excuse. You can research anyone, you can see their clips, you know if they can carry on a conversation. So there really shouldn't be an excuse for you to have someone like that again on your show. But it does happen, especially to those that use a funnel to feed their guests into their show. And I'm telling you right now, your audience is not fooled. There is a significant reason where Tom and I can look at the stats behind the scenes of all the shows on Poditais, and I can tell you which ones are using a funnel, cuz their numbers are lower by a significant amount than the ones that don't. Now, a lot of times you're not doing a great job of telling your audience why they're there, and that may be why you're not getting as good a listen through. And that's what we're telling you about here is this structure to recording your podcast interview. Is going to help you with that listen-through. That is so desirable, so important. If we've got advertisers, if we've got stuff to sell, if we've got, uh, you know, we want them to transfer that trust to us and then come and buy our stuff, buy our books and buy our courses. We've gotta get them all the way through the episode for that. We've gotta give them value.

Or even just to get more people to join your community or your email list, you know, which is coming up in a future episode we're gonna talk about.

Yeah, absolutely. So now we talked about this authority introduction, right? This authority transfer that is going on. I also like to call that there needs to be a close, and I like it to be a critical close.

Me too. I'm a big fan.

I don't mean by being critical to your guest. I don't mean by criticizing them. I mean the word critical to be like, uh, imperative, very important. That's the time I'm using critical close. It is a time for critical thinking, for you to analyze what you heard and share your thoughts with your audience. It's a time to make sure that you make the most important thing takeaway apparent, the critical takeaway apparent. And if you were trying to get something out of your guest, so in other words, if you're trying to turn your guests into clients, this is a great spot to leave a point to them of something that they could be improving on, of something that they— you're looking forward to seeing from them, which kind of puts them on the hot seat to make sure they perform to that level. And maybe they're gonna need your help to do that. So it is a good time where you can be slightly critical. You wanna do it in a really good, like, plus way, like you're a positive way.

Positive way. Yes. Thank you. That's the word.

Yeah, but if you know, Tom and I are working on the Binge Factor's deconstructed model, and the problem with it is, has been our guest list. So we've had a few people reach out and they're absolutely, we are going to do their show, but they've opened themselves up to wanting critical thinking about their show. They want us to give them a critique of their show and they want us to be honest because then their show will improve. That's what they're looking for. But most people that we would select that we want to share with you, we have to do something that we're not usually comfortable with, and that is doing criticism of a show to the point where it makes them feel like we might have bashed it, might have slightly bashed it, dented it a little.

It's interesting because controversial things get a lot of attention, draw a lot of viewers and listeners, so there's a positive side to that. There's also a backlash side to that where we might get some hate email or hate tweets or— hate may be too strong a word, but unhappy comments on social media. But our goal is to provide value to all you podcasters and help you all learn from these stories and make your podcasts even better. That's the whole point, right?

Right. And so that means that we are trying to do a selection process where those people who we might criticize their show, where they're good examples for you to learn from, will never be our client. And so like they would never, like they're just never gonna come to us because they're associated with some network or they're somewhere else. That's what we chose to do because we don't wanna bash someone who could improve. That's not fair. Like that's not in keeping with the spirit of what we do at Podcasters United as a supporter of that, or what we want from our atmosphere at Poditise. So you have to keep that in mind that what you wanna get from your guests and what you wanna give to your audience, you've gotta make sure that there's an alignment in the process, in the structure of what you're giving them and who you're selecting and how it flows through everything. And in this critical close that still matches your ultimate goal, because if in giving to your audience, you hurt the people in your industry, right? You are not going to get more authority in your industry and you're not gonna grow. And that isn't gonna get you more listeners who could use your help. So you've gotta think about those two things as intertwined, like this all has to work together. The guest, the audience, you and your goals, right? All of that has to do it. And that critical close is the place for you to put that feedback, to give those critical thoughts and to do it in a way that is positive and learning and growth for your audience, for the guests and for your own business.

You know, I really love that label you put on it, Tracy Hazzard, the critical close, because I talk about this with the podcasters that we're supporting with strategy and support, especially the new ones as they're going to get into podcasting and they're trying to think about, all right, how am I going to do this? How am I going to conduct this session with my guests? And I haven't referred to it as a critical close. I hadn't put that name on it, but it's It's really well labeled because it leaves a lot of room for you to make it your own and do it your way and provide that additional value to your listener. And the other thing it really does when you think about it, folks, and I do recommend, by the way, when you record that intro we talked about before, that after the interview and you record your introduction with context and all that, Do you actually let the listener know, you know, you've got to transition to the interview. And when you then say, all right, let's go to my discussion with Tracy Hazzard and I'll be back with some final thoughts after that, or whatever you want to call your last section, you let them know upfront, there's more. When you get to the end of the interview, you hear us winding down with the guest. Don't skip to the next episode. Don't switch it off because there's more.

And.

What we're saying is there should be more with some significant value that your listeners will appreciate. This critical close area will be why more listeners come back to your show episode after episode, because you're not just a facilitator letting the guests tell their story. You're actually giving your mindshare. And like you said, Tracy Hazzard, trying to highlight something really important, put some emphasis on something. Make sure if the guest buried the lead on something in your opinion, you're shining a brighter light on it. There are many aspects to this that you can do and figure it on your own to make it truly uniquely yours. But the structure sets you up to be that authority.

Remember that almost all of your guests are not exclusive guests. Like, you'll never get— I mean, it just doesn't happen in the podcast industry where you get an exclusive. Where that guest is never going to guest on another show again. Very rare is that going to happen.

I don't think that's ever happened.

Yeah, I mean, they usually are on a media blitz, right? They're going to go on every show they can. So you're not going— and they're going to say the same things again and again and again. Your interview process, like, that's why you want to be good at like getting that conversation going. So it is different. But what you think of those things is the one differentiator you have. And if you're not saying that, if you're not sharing it, how many times— and think about this, if you've already been doing interviews, how many times do you mention to your coworkers or a friend or you're at your mastermind groups or something, I had this coolest conversation with so-and-so when I was interviewing for my show and he gave me the idea that I should be doing this. How many times do you do that? And did you do that for your audience? If you didn't do it to your audience, for your audience, the people who are giving you their time, then you did them a disservice. You owe your audience those thoughts. That's why we have the structure the way that we do. When we know that this works to get listened through, that's what we see on our clients' shows when they follow this structure. We see that listen-through happening. And if you notice and have been a fan of our show and listening to our show, we've also done ones on the best places to structure and put your ads, right? And Tom and I are big fans of the last third ads. We've created a natural process and place for those ads to be. And we know that the late roll, post roll, late mid, post roll ads, like those spots do really well. So If you finish your interview, you run an ad, you've got your closing thoughts, they're gonna stay through the ad because they know your closing thoughts are coming, especially those that are accustomed to it. And then they'll listen to the post-roll ad because it'll just bust right onto right before you get to your outro if you've got one like that, or they'll listen to your outro and find out where to locate you next, right? Where to get more from you. So all of that stuff will flow more freely and you'll get more return on those ads if you're running into a structure where you're providing them something of great value, not just a, here's what's coming up next. They'll just go to the next episode. That's what I hear too often in the closing, Tom, is here's what I got for you next. Like we moved on to the thing, here's what I'm selling you and here's what I've got for you next.

Yeah. I mean, look, if you listen to enough podcasts, you'll hear everything really. And that's why I'm not too worried about offending some people or making them too unhappy about being critical about their show in The Binge Factor Deconstructed, because there's millions of podcasts out there. We're going to offend a very small few, not really trying to, but we are being critical so that you all can learn from their example and make your own decision about if you do or don't want to do that for your own show. In some cases, you're probably really not going to want to, but anyway. It's all got a really good purpose to it at the end of the day.

But this is where you have to be able to be thinking carefully about who your show is structured for. If it is more structured for your guests, you need to provide a better environment for them. And that's also a reason why we recommend these two pieces come separated from the interview process because their time is valuable. You saying hello, getting to know them and jumping right into the interview, maximizes their time with you, gets the most content you can possibly create in the time period they've carved out for you. You didn't waste any minute of it, and they feel that. And the Q&A process, the interview process, hopefully it goes really well because you're following all the good guidelines. You're asking questions that they've not heard before. You're following up on those questions. You're doing those good practices. So they look at that as a professional experience. Now your follow-up with those guests are the last thing that I do when I leave them on the interview. And this is after I turn the recording off, I will say, okay. And I always prep them beforehand that I'm gonna record in segments. So they're not gonna hear the introduction and they're not gonna hear the close. I remind them again at the end, don't forget when I send you the link to this episode, you're gonna wanna hear my closing thoughts because you know, you gave me a lot to think about here and my closing thoughts are gonna reflect that. So that makes them now anticipating and wanting the release of the episode and them to actually listen through to it, where most people will not listen to their own interviews. But at least maybe they'd skip to the end here and listen to your closing thoughts. They might listen to your introduction too, and that would be valuable to show that you gave them the proper setup and context that they wanted, and now it makes them even more proud to share the episode. So if you can get them to take a listen to the episode itself, they will do a better job promoting and sharing that show. But if they just receive the link and they're like, pass it on to my media team and don't even listen to it or think about it, you didn't achieve your goal of establishing a rapport and touchpoints with your guests.

It's a really good point, Tracy Hazzard. And there are some of those people that They just show up, speak, leave everything else to their team. It happens. And those people usually do a lousy job of sharing things on social if they don't have a team that's actually required to do it, right?

Well, we're gonna have to do an upcoming episode on this. It's not on my calendar. It's not on our calendar or editorial calendar, so I'm gonna have to add it. But it was an article that I just read yesterday that was really talking about that, what you call sponsored posts, like where you make an announcement about something that you want people to buy. Have diminished value. Well, I really do also think in podcasting there is diminished value with the audience that you're listening audience, right? There's diminished value when you don't have something, when something sounds programmatic, when something seems like, oh, it's just part of the sales process, or when your interview is a part of a funnel process and you do not care about your audience. I think it shows through in the numbers. So we really wanna create that whole environment where the guest is valuable, my listeners are valuable, and what's getting back for me is also valuable enough to keep me at a high professional engaged level with this. Because if you're phoning it in, everybody knows, the guest, the audience, and you do too, cuz you're frustrated, you're sick of it.

That's so true. It is. Listeners especially can hear through, not see through, that with you. And it's really true.

I wanna just talk a little bit about the structure of the transitions, right? Because we said we were gonna talk about recording podcast interview structure, right? So we're talking about that. When we do it, we are conscious of the fact that introduction happened. So when we're live streaming here, we say hi to you. We introduce ourselves. We do that because on the livestream there is no formal introduction. So on the podcast though, we know there's our formal introduction and a throw to Tom and I. So if we were recording just a straight interview or we were recording something in our show, like when we do the Binge Factor, we don't do that that way. We don't say, hey, I'm Tracy, I'm Tom. We don't do it because we know it's already there. We don't wanna be redundant for our audience and waste space. We just also, when we transition then to the opening piece, we wanna throw to the interview that's coming in a high energy, open loop teasing way, as Tom Pottett, like get them to hang on, get them to wanna keep listening. Don't hit pause, don't hit end, don't move on to the next episode. Don't skip. We want that to happen there. So we've gotta end that opening with that same transition. Now, sometimes in your audio, like you might want a little music interlude, you wanna like fade in, you can do stuff like that. Get creative if you want it, if you have the time or if you use editors, but it's really not necessary because the startup of your interview should be with that energy place. It's like, so-and-so, so glad you're here. I'm really excited to talk with you about this. Like that opening question that we talked about when we did that episode on it. When you listen to that, you're really gonna understand how that jump in piece, 'cause for you readers out there, I'm a huge reader. I love a book that starts in the middle, that starts and I don't, like, it just starts with the energy of it. And Tom was watching Mission: Impossible the other night and like that opening scene where it starts is like high energy, like the biggest action part of the movie. And it starts that way and it's super long. I don't know, I think one of them was like 15 minutes long. That's amazing if you can have that sustained built energy that starts your interview process, right?

Definitely keeps people attentive and looking forward to what's coming next, what you have to say. And again, listening all the way through. At the end of the day, that's what we want, listening all the way through. Every one of your episodes. If that's not happening, need to revamp, reconfigure, take a look at things. And it's just super critical in my opinion.

And then when you close your interview, don't forget that you're going to have a closing and you might wanna tease to it. You might wanna mention it. You might wanna say it with your guest on the air so that they hear that you're gonna have some closing thoughts. And that's not being recorded in front of them, right? So you may wanna do that as well with them on the air and that kind of opens that. Those of us that know we have binge listeners, like the majority of what we have are binge listeners, I don't do it every time because they know I'm gonna be there because I can't stop my opinion. Like that's how my show is all about. And I already usually did it at the introduction level. I did it in that introduction piece saying, stay tuned to the end. So I've already given that, that loop for it, but you can do it again. There's no harm in doing it again. In fact, it's a great way to remind your guests that that's what's gonna happen. And so you would do that again, transition, or you can have an ad so that you have a piece in there that's gonna break it up to that final closing thoughts. When I close my thoughts, I have my closing thoughts about what it is, and then I transition logically into whatever about my own business or about my something that I want them to go and click and check out. Might be a, a reminder of some of the things we referenced in the episode. I might do that towards the end of it, and then I know it's gonna go to the close and tell 'em where to get it. So while I say go to podcastersunited.org or whatever URL that we're, we're shouting out to, even though I might say it then again, that outro, that formal outro is going to reiterate that exact same place. So that's kind of the overall structure.

And I think that's important. Yeah, that is the overall structure. Just the final comment on that last piece, it doesn't matter in my experience, that you mention your own website more than once. I really don't think you can mention it too many times. It's not really going to bother anybody. Don't spell out the www, whatever. It's a link to it in every episode description, or there should be. If there isn't, you need to do that, but reinforce just the name. So that's the—

it—

you want to burn that in your listener's brain. They want to get any more, they want to get additional value, they go to your website. And they're gonna get what they want and ideally for free. You just, they just have to go through your website to get it. That's the only website you want 'em to hear. So anyway, just thought that was worth emphasizing again.

So before we close out here, the last piece that I wanna mention is that there are a lot of people out there who come from the radio world and they're these huge fans of segmenting. They cut it up to cut it up because they expect to have ads in those places, right? Because that's the way radio was, is you had to create your ad break. And so they would have like, I'm gonna call it like games and segments and gimmicks. And if you are doing that with your guest on the air, it is an interruption to the flow of conversation. None of those things normally happen live because they will take a prerecording and air pieces of the interview normally in most radio shows or most shows that, and most TV shows that you're watching, right? They've broken it up and created the segmentation on it. It's very rare that it is like a flow-through, or they do it before they bring their guest on. Like if you watch any kind of, you know, uh, night talk show or something like that, and you know, and they've got games that they're playing, they might bring their guest on for the game and then send them back and then bring them back on again for the interview. They don't let it flow in the middle and break up the interviews with the games. They might end the interview and then play a game. That's okay too. But when you do it within it, it is very disruptive to the listening experience and to the guest trust-building experience, the conversation experience. They now feel that this interview isn't about them anymore.

It's a great point, Tracy Hazzard. I do think that pattern interrupt is not helpful to any guest's train of thought. It's gonna distract them and there, maybe if they had something in mind they thought was very worthwhile to say next, they often might forget about it.

Yeah. So think carefully about where you wanna do it. You could bookend the interview with them, but do them separate. Also think about how you're doing them. Is it adding enough value to the whole listening experience and guest experience? Or should you just, I mean, honestly, it's more work. And it's not worth it in terms of the listening experience.

Very sound advice, Tracy Hazzard. Well, I hope everyone's gotten some more value on their journey toward interviewing people on their podcast and have some, I think, great tips to build on what we've done in the past. And we'd love to hear from you. If you got any other topics, questions you have, you can reach out to us at podcastersunited.org. Otherwise, we keep plugging away with all these great tips and what we're seeing people are interested in from the traffic we're getting on our website and our podcast.

Well, thanks everyone for listening. We so appreciate you. We will be back next week and we're going to be talking about some nitty-gritty things that are going to help your podcast grow.

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