https://www.listennotes.com/e/b266b546a61b4ecdad23a8ce29d11b09

This.

Is feed your brand with hosts Tom Hazard and Tracy Hazard.

Welcome to feed your brand. I'm Tracy Hazard. And along with my co-host Tom Hazard, who is not the co-host today, and our special guest, who is a recurring guest if you've never been on the show before or never listened to the show or watched the show before, Fran acero, who is joining us from thrive anyway. So, and senior tubers. So we're going to get started and I'm going to do a more formal introduction here as we head into this panel discussion that we're having. It is a little bit more than a panel discussion. We are going to do a compare and contrast. So we're going to talk about today optimizing your content for both podcasts and video, specifically YouTube, but video in general. While both are media distribution platforms, there's a lot of differences between sharing audio and video content and the approaches of the platform themselves on how they handle discoverability differs really big because of the algorithms and processes for optimization that vary between those two platforms. So that's what we're really going to talk about. And so we decided to do this two-sided discussion. as a part of our show today with our frequent coaching guest and our resident YouTube expert, Fran Asaro of Thrive Anywhere, senior tubers, and with my Feed Your Brand co-host and partner, co-founder and CEO of Podetize, Tom Hazard. We're thrilled to welcome back, Fran. She's our frequent coaching guest, and you empower individuals and businesses to master the complexities of YouTube by sharing your proven strategies for content creation, audio engagement, and algorithm optimization which is why you're here on the panel today. So welcome, Fran.

Thank you so much. I'm very excited to be here and Tom and I getting geared up to give you what you need.

Getting geared up.

Yes.

To go head to head. I love it. Okay, Tom Hazard, as I mentioned, is our co-founder and CEO of Podetize, and he has extensive experience in design, brand innovation, and the world of podcasting. He's been an OG in podcasting for over 11 years. and has been the co-host of Feed your Brand. I think we've had it for six years. So I'm probably bordering on seven. You deliver actionable insights on how to leverage content for maximum reach and conversion in the podcasting space. But we touch on video all the time because our platform handles video and audio together. So Tom's gonna touch on where he sees crossover, but mainly focusing on our podcasting apps. Welcome, partner.

Thank you.

So, I expect this session is going to really highlight the differences and the commonalities. So, like, that's what I really want to focus on. So, as you're answering questions, be thinking about, like, is this the same or is this different? And so, I was starting to feel as we were setting this up, like, it was like one of those Sesame Street things where, like, one of these things is not like the other, you know? And so, we'll see how that goes here with the boxes and everything. I'm going to get started with really thinking a little bit about the platforms because I want to start there because obviously everything depends on the fact that we're talking about putting this on YouTube and putting this on Apple, Spotify, and some of the other apps. So I'm going to start there and I am going to unspotlight there. How's that work for everybody? That so that you can just see the two that are answering and you'll hear my voice in the background. For those of you listening, all you're hearing is our voices. And luckily we have three very distinct voices here. So what I want to ask is, both of you, and I'm gonna start with Fran, but what's the primary reason for optimizing content on YouTube? Why should we bother doing it at all?

That's a great question. We could go on and on for that answer, but to give you a shorter answer, we're trying to get engagement. We're trying to get people to find the answers to their questions that they're searching for. and YouTube is also trying to get us to keep people on the channel for them and for you because that's how everybody makes money. So those are the three basics, but really goes in a little bit more intricately later on.

We'll definitely touch on that. So, Tom, what about you? What's the primary reason to optimize podcast episode content for the player apps or your show content as well?

So in a word, discoverability. This is one area where there are some similarities with YouTube, I believe, and podcasting, but it's to get you found and heard primarily. The big difference is within podcasting, it's all about you and your show getting you heard and you found you're the listening apps are not trying to peel you away from your content and serve up other people's stuff, which my understanding is YouTube does that. So But it is all about discoverability and being found. That's the whole point. When somebody searches on their needs, your show needs to come up in that search.

To that end then, Tom, what are the top two to three fundamental elements that contribute to getting you found?

So the primary data points of your show, what I call listing, the podcast steps don't call it a listing, but it is effectively a listing. Your show description is the number one important data point that feeds the search function and all the listening apps. The title of your show is also important, although it's a lot less data, it's less important. I guess I would say number two is the author field and making sure that your name, the host name is there and not a company name or a production company's name. Or often I see rookies putting their show name in the author field too. That's not going to help you. It needs to be your full name as the host of the show. So I'll go back to show description and author field having your name in it.

What about content though? So does that same, those same three elements apply or same two elements?

Content, you mean episodes? It certainly does apply in the episode titles and descriptions, not your author field actually, but the title of the episodes and the descriptions. figure into search in the podcast listening apps also. The reason why I think they are not as effective is not about the data. The data is there. It's actually more effective if you're searching on Google, your episodes will come up. But in the listening apps, the episode results usually are far below the fold, if you will, of your search in your listening app or if you're in a web browser. and most people don't realize that they're paying attention to them. All they see is the show results and they're making decisions to choose what show to click into and then look at their episodes. If they scroll down to the episode results, then yes, it's very effective. My belief is just not a lot of listeners do that.

How interesting. So Fran, let's take this to the YouTube side of it. And in YouTube, we would call your listing your channel.

Right?

And then you would have your playlist, your content, your stuff like that. But what are the two to three fundamental elements that go, that are most important if you're searching, if you wanna be found in YouTube?

Right.

So I wanna make sure that this gets cleared up. If you think the first part of optimizing your channel is to dot every I and cross every T and dot every I, the first part of optimizing is not necessarily for YouTube, but except YouTube wants to see if you're playing by the YouTube rules, and if you do that, that your content matches your transcript or something, that it's all consistent, then they wake up and they say, oh, here somebody's playing the game, and then they start promoting you and giving impressions out there for you. So that's important, but it's not exactly what people think because that optimization is for your topic, not necessarily the topic that people are looking for. So you could put any topic out there and it may not do anything. You say, how come nobody's responding? because you're not looking up to see what your audience is waking up today searching for. So I'd say it has to be a research that you have to do first to make sure you are in the place your people are looking for. And then you maximize your content with having different things in there to make sure people come in. Do you have hooks in there? Do you leave them with something they're baited so they stay on your channel? And the more they stay on, the more brownie points you get is what I call them. because now you're creating engagement and the engagement increases watch time hours, which eventually creates either be able to monetize your channel, but definitely have an audience that sponsors may be available for. And people who are searching like to see that you have a lot of engagement.

So that's interesting. So what we're saying is that over in YouTube, that what matters most is what other people are searching on and what YouTube thinks is important. and not your show. So that's really interesting. Whereas in the podcast space, the show is most important because everything is based on who, what show are you watching? What show are you listening to, really? So that's so interesting.

Yeah, they're changing it now. So it's not gonna be a social media type of conversation. It's going to be interest media. And they're gonna know if you're giving them what they're interested in instead of like, it's gonna have a big transition in the next year or two.

Interesting. Well, let's dive into some of these discoverability elements that are really based on the content, the stuff you can control, right? Right, because you can only control what you're recording and putting in there. What about consistency in publication? Does publishing at a specific pace at the same day, time have an impact on the algorithm and on whether or not you're discoverable? Tom, why don't we have you do that one first?

So in podcasting specifically, my experience is the consistency of showing up on a regular predictable basis for your listeners is critical. All the shows that succeed and get the most listeners, the most subscribers, are showing up regularly and predictably for their listeners. They can publish a bonus episode now and again If something comes up in between or, you know, they're definitely, you can do some different things, but when people find and are choosing between different podcasts, when they do a search, they're looking for a podcast about maybe it's home crafting or maybe they're wanting to be educated about, you know, real estate investing. I mean, it could be anything, right? They're going to get lots of shows in the results, and they're going to check them out and choose between them. And a show that's showing up regularly at the same day of the week, every week, and one that is published one episode in January, maybe two in February, maybe one in March, and then three in April is going to seem to that listener like, Hmm, well, this show is not necessarily gonna show up for me regularly. They will choose, if they have a couple to choose in between, the one that shows up consistently regularly for them all the time. That which is gonna get chosen a lot more. So I think it's critical.

So I wanna clarify what you're saying is that there is an algorithmic component to it because obviously if you're showing up consistently, you've got more content and that plays into what Apple wants and Spotify wants and things like that. But there's a component of the subscribers you want to attract. So it's twofold there. So that consistency also is a benefit to that subscriber and what they're looking for.

You know, that's fair point, Tracie. I guess I wasn't really answering the direct question, which is there an algorithmic benefit? Yes, there is in the charts, in the big listening apps like Apple and Spotify and, you know, iHeart places like that. There's an algorithmic benefit for sure. I think it's more important though that there is a benefit for the listeners that you're gonna attract or you're gonna repel.

You're gonna repel. Well, Fran, what about YouTube? Is YouTube reward consistency or just a lot of content? Like, what is it like?

You know, it's so funny because, you know, I've been teaching about consistency and the more consistency, of course, is good. But again, we're starting to realize that there are interests out there and we're trying to meet their interests. Now, their interest could be, okay, I want to talk about, I want to be a part of a Bible study or I want to be a part of how to do crocheting and they will stay consistent. And so that's where somebody who has that kind of an audience will want to be consistent every day, more times, whatever is really good. But here's the thing that where it might differ from the audio version is picture this, when somebody goes to listen to an audio podcast, They're almost like relaxing to get into something, right? And you're giving them a 15 minute or a two hour podcast and they relax and get into their topic that they love. Now imagine if you're a YouTuber, you are scrolling, this is a business, you know, you are scrolling through, finding information, typing in what you need and you wanna make sure you get your answers, how do I fix my back or what do I do for a headache? And people want some quick answers because they're using it as a search engine. Second largest search engine in the world. So we want to meet them where they're at. So what we want to do is we want to, first of all, put out material. If you're somebody who has an answer to a headache, you want to make sure that you have more than one solution or one way of looking at the solution. So if you want to put out how to do a headache, you might have a playlist with 20 or 30 videos on how to handle a headache naturally, how to use Essential Oils for a headache, whatever it is, you put all those versions in because if you give them one video and it didn't answer the question that they asked exactly, they're going somewhere else. And the purpose here is to keep them on your channel. And so you want to make sure that you know what your audience is looking for. So if you're saying, I want to put something, I want to put a video out there about healing a headache, then you want to make as many videos that person could hit from a playlist perspective. On the first page of your channel or some other way that they're going to see all of that. And then they stay on and that's where we get the brownie points again for watch time hours.

Interesting. So more content that covers those topics in a broader way or in a detailed way, but like covers it on mass would be better. Interesting. So, Fran, let me ask you a little bit more about YouTube because One of the important attractors is obviously you were just talking about it. It's a scroll, it's a visual media type. How critical is that video production quality aside from the thumbnails, because we're going to talk about that later, that's a different thing. But the video itself, the production quality of it, how good your camera is, how good your setup is, how important is that to discoverability, watch time hours, or anything that has to do with like making sure it works on YouTube?

Thank you. There are people out there promoting all different materials that you could use to be a better YouTuber. And it's nice if you grow. Like if you started an office today, you start out with a desk, a computer and a chair, and then you grow from there. So I just want to make sure I tell people if you have none of this, get on your camera. You can have a free channel with your phone or with your webcam. So what's really important, most important, is the sound. Okay? If you don't have a perfectly visual If you don't, if you look a little blurry, if your sound and then how you grab them, okay, not physically, but how you grab them in the content. If you can grab them and have good sound, so there's no problem, they hear you, everything else would come second and third. And that would be, of course, the way the video is, the content of the video and the sound again is, I see a lot of people and then where you're positioned, do they feel like you're part of them? Are you looking them in the eye? I have many people who, you know, go down here, their chin is on their laptop, you know, wherever that is. And so you gotta, you gotta show up as a leader or whatever you are, the expert in your field. And so that, those are the most important things. Then you could always add anything to improve upon from that point.

I love that. So how you come across really matters. Well, Tom, I love that audio matters, obviously, and so I'm sure do you.

So let's ask him. I was surprised.

Yeah, he did. So let's ask this from that perspective, like how much does the sound matter? How much does the content format happen? And, you know, people think that podcasts should be like radio with segments and stuff like that. How much does that stuff matter to discoverability or audience retention or anything that you think actually really contributes to your optimization and growth on the platform?

Okay, a few things packed in that question. I'm gonna say in podcasting, your audio quality is critical. to be the best it can be? Does it have to be recorded in a studio like a radio DJ? No, not at all. And modern technology has made it very easy, really mostly with the microphone you choose. And if you listen to the difference in my audio to Fran's, and I'm not being negative about what you're contributing Fran at all, but Fran's using a different microphone than I am, and there's a different difference in the audio quality. In podcasting, that audio quality is critical because you don't want to annoy people. They're often listening in places where there's other white noise, background noise, driving their car, exercising at the gym, where there's a lot of other noise of equipment around them. And the audio quality makes a big difference, and I believe is People are listening to a couple different podcasts, and most people that listen to podcasts regularly, real podcast listeners, listen to seven or eight different shows regularly, like weekly or however often they publish. And if they're considering a new show, one of the things that has an impact on whether they like it or not is how clean is the audio, how easy is it on the ears. And I'm not even talking about your voice quality, although that I think also plays a role, but more important is the general audio quality. And I want to say, though, I was surprised a little bit, you're right, at Fran's answer to the question that the audio is so important in YouTube because it's such a visual medium. I have had the belief, and I will admit I'm not a YouTube expert. I have a lot of experience, but I am not a YouTube expert the way Fran is. I would have thought that the visual media of video on YouTube, because people are looking and like take for me. I recently, one of the YouTube videos I searched on and watched that I needed was a how-to video about how to change out the third upper brake light in a Jeep Grand Cherokee. It's my daughter's car. And it wasn't obvious at all how to do it. And I found a YouTube video where somebody went through step by step. watching how they do it. Yes, I needed to hear what they said, but did I care about their audio quality? I really didn't. Now, that was me in one context and one situation, and that may be only one kind of YouTube video, and there may be a lot of people that disagree with me here. But I was kind of surprised to hear Fran say the audio quality is important, but very pleasantly surprised.

So, Tom, I just want you to say, because Fran said this, and I think it's really important, get started. Have a use the camera on your phone. We believe the same thing. And this mic that you're talking about, get a good mic so you have a good sound, but it's not expensive.

It's really not. The microphone that I'm using, we'll have a link for it in the blog post for this episode, but it's an AT2005. We have a couple episodes where we've gone over equipment, and you can see I reviewed a whole lot of different mics, including the one that Fran is using. But at the time of this recording, the microphone that I am using is about $50. It's not expensive and it's the most professional one, even after 10 years and recommending it. That's also pre-tariff price increases, I want to say. I think every microphone on the market probably not made in the United States and we're probably gonna see some amount of price increase and prices are gonna migrate north.

But I think if you're under 100 bucks, you're still fine and that's not a big investment to the quality of the sound and making sure that people stick with your show 'cause it has a benefit to it. Well, I wanna focus on- I'd like.

To jump in and just say, Tom, I'm sorry, but I pay double and I'm sounding worse than you. I make sure you tell people it's not the price that makes them better.

No, that's very true. And that's also one of, if anybody listening wants to go, go to podcastersunited.org and search podcast microphones and you'll see all the reviews of them. And one thing that I tell people is, It's not a one-size-fits-all situation. My mic may not be ideal for your situation. There actually is one situation where the mic Fran is using is ideal, but I find that in most situations, the one that I'm using is gonna produce a higher quality sound for most recording situations.

I would have never expected this to happen that our common ground is audio. Like, I would have never expected that to be the common ground we'd find so far today.

I do wanna jump in because they need to hear you. It doesn't have to be the quality of the mic, but your clarity in delivering the sound, the volume. Tom's got a different. He probably went in, the guy sounded fine. He got what he wanted. But if you had somebody with some sort of a barrier, wind blowing or something like that, it may not have been just the equipment.

So agreed. So, Tom, I just want to make sure that we get back to the second half and we don't leave everybody hanging on the second half of my question, which I was asking is, like, what about the segmentation or structure or anything like that? Because Fran was talking about, like, you know, really How to make the videos and I want to address that for, do you think it matters? I mean, if it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, but it's totally up to you.

So it's a hard question to ask context of the message you're trying to deliver. Is it a solo cast, just one person speaking? Is it an interview podcast? There are many different variables that contribute to that. I do think it's the best podcasts have some kind of structure. and take the listener through a journey of some kind from beginning, middle to end of the episode. There's not just one formula. There are many different ways to do this, but I think some structure is best. And especially if your show is recorded for another purpose, like live stream or at an event and then repurposed as a podcast, you might need to put a little more structure on that live stream to have it make sense as a podcast. But, so it's important, but it's not just one right way. Does that make sense?

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you for that. So let's talk a little bit about the nitty gritty details. I know that this is like the keywords and metadata section. Like, and so I know some people are gonna tune out, but as Fran referred to in the very beginning of this, if you don't play the algorithm game and you're not playing with YouTube nicely and you're not playing with Spotify nicely, you're not gonna get anywhere. So let's talk about some of these nitty gritty things that make it work, that make it optimized, that really work for us. So, Fran, let's talk about some of the key components of YouTube optimization in terms of those details. You call them the three T's. Why don't you tell us about those?

Okay. So I always say that people coming to your channel, you see, you put a video up and you have no views, very low views. I call it the three T's. You want to look at your tags, your title, and your thumbnail. If by, should I go beyond the three T's?

No.

Tell us why they're so important.

Okay. Thank you. So the thumbnail is actually first and thumbnail layouts change. Like last year, it was popular to have somebody in the thumbnail and now it's popular to have just an image in there. If you want, you could put an image in there. You could put your image in there. If you want your guest's image in there, if you have a podcast, you want to make sure that you're in there too, right? So you want to put both you and your guest in there and your words should be 3 to 4 words, very bold, very big and a lot of contrast. So if they can't read it, we call it like the squint or pinch and zoom. Do they have to pinch and zoom to see it? Or can they see it easy? Today's latest news, right? And then they go, oh, and then what's happening is the intent for the thumbnail is to drive them as they're searching in the search bar, let's say again, how do I find a job? Right? So when they say the latest job today, you don't give the answer in the thumbnail. You want them to go over to the title where you're going to have a more in-depth under 60 characters title that will have them make the decision whether they want to click or not. And the tags are what's going to draw them there so that they have searched for something, keyword phrases, things that really mean something. your guest's name, your name, your business name are not necessarily tags that are going to rank, meaning it's going to make a difference. But if you put the tags that are about them, what people are looking for, those are very important. And you want to also use the keyword phrases. So it's job search. Let's say job search is the keyword phrase that you choose. Then you want to have that throughout your entire, entire video, in your description, in your tags. you want to tag your thumbnail with the file name of a keyword phrase. You want to title the video itself when you upload it with a keyword phrase in there. So all of that, it sounds like a little bit much at first, but all it is is keeping the continuity about what you're about. And if your keyword phrase does not show up in your transcripts or in your descriptions, it's going to be hard. So that's why the three tease will happen.

And I wanna clarify this to something you said earlier, just to make sure that people are making that connection. 'Cause I, you and I have talked.

About this a lot before. I love that you can see the.

Side that I don't cover. Thank you. So that what she's saying though is that if you're not talking about job search in that video, it's not in the transcript, it's not everywhere, and you try to put that on the thumbnail and you try to put that on the title, it actually won't work for you. There has to be a consistency in what you're actually talking about. to these tags, to these searchable things for the optimization to actually occur.

Yes.

Yes.

And that I think is really important here. You can't just hack your way to this by keyword cramming. You've got to make it consistent with your content.

I just want to say there's always that exception. And if you want to wait for the exception, there are people out there who do not optimize, but they either know a lot of people or they hit something spot on and it just blew up. It could happen. It does happen. But do you want to have the better odds? And that's what we're trying to do is give you the better odds.

That's what optimization is for. Exactly. Well, Tom, what do we optimize over on the podcasting side that are similar to those three T's that really make a difference in the search and discovery of the content itself?

So what we do is the title of an episode is critical. you get more characters than in YouTube. And the thing is, I mentioned earlier about on the episode level, when people search in a podcast app, most often they're not looking at the episode results, more of the show results, unless they're specifically looking at episodes in general. But the title is critical in other ways because the title of your podcast episode does figure into not only search in the podcast listening apps, but into Google search. and as does the description in your episode. And you get 4,000 characters in the podcast ecosystem for that episode and your show description. So it's important you use them all for SEO purposes. And the thing is, I'll tell you, Tracy, I don't think there are as many critical dos for podcast episode titles as much as there are some really critical don'ts, some pitfalls to avoid. And I'm just going to share a couple because I think that's- yeah, let's hear those. They are do not put episode numbers in your episode titles. No one's going to search on 152, okay? It's not going to help you be found. That may- so many podcasters think, well, I want to keep them organized and I can refer people, oh, for more on that, go to episode 152. And that's something they could maybe search on in a podcast. I don't think it actually will let you search within just episodes of a show though. If you have a episode landing page for every episode that might work searching within your website, but it's much more likely that podcast listeners are going to search on their needs, their interests, their desires, their challenges. And so the words you use are more important. The other thing is, if you have that episode number in the beginning of your title, It screws up the search results in the podcast listening apps. It doesn't matter what you type in there. Your episode, what a listener types or potential listener types in their search. If their search doesn't start with EP 152, then whatever came after that doesn't matter. The podcast listening app search functions are not as advanced as Google, where you type something in and it'll say, Did you mean this? It won't do that. And regrettably, the search function in Podcasts apps is not good. Google, they do figure into Google search, but that episode number screws it up. So keep the episode numbers out of there. We have another Feed your brand episode about that if you want to learn more about that. I want to also say tags do not exist in the podcast ecosystem. No such thing as putting a tag in a episode of a podcast and having that perform any function anywhere. Just doesn't help. So that's unique to you.

People do it, but it doesn't do anything.

People do it, but it doesn't do anything at all. I mean, you don't search and you can't put hashtag some phrase and have that do anything meaningful in a podcast app search or an at symbol like a handle. It doesn't work either. Podcast searching is more exact searches, but that's where the words that you write into your description of each episode are your best ally at being found and coming up in searches because you just want to think about what is my ideal profile listener searching for that I want this episode to be found for. Those words, those phrases should be in that description somewhere.

So let's go on to the keyword part of it. What you should be, your topic, right? What these things are, you've all, you've both mentioned them quite a few times. Let's be talking about this. It's like, what tools or strategies do you recommend for keyword research, Fran? And I'm gonna say this way is like, do you use competitive research in a different way? So like, are you competitively researching for it? Like, I'm a chiropractor and I wanna go to other chiropractors and see what they're doing, or do you just straight use the tools? What I wanna understand is like, are you benchmarking, I guess is the term that I would use. So what tools or what strategies are you recommending to people?

Okay, thank you. First of all, can I just speak to Tom's how to organize, you know, I'm always interjecting, right? So I agree with Tom about not putting anything in the front that isn't to do with the title. I always say this is not a Dewey Decimal System. I love that. All you want to do is put the thing that's most important. And there are people who are really fixed on putting their guest name in the title and they're fixed on putting that episode number in the title. So my recommendation is to put it at the very end so your most important heavy weighted words will come in first. Still not necessary, but if you have to do it, maybe to please somebody, then at least put it at the end.

And so we recommend the same thing. So spot on.

Yes. So I wanted to include that.

No, good, good for you. Friendly.

Yeah. We could be friendly in the same area here.

So it applies in both that we're talking about commonality here. I love it. Okay. Well, let's go on to that keyword tools and strategies that you recommend and benchmarking models that you recommend.

Yeah.

So I'm a TubeBuddy person and TubeBuddy has a way to look up your keywords and your tags, which is once you get it there, you can save them and you go back to them. So you don't always have to keep looking up what your people are looking for, but that changes. But when I'm optimizing every single video, there's a keyword phrase that I choose from the title. I click on it and TubeBuddy helps me find the optimal words, organize them, rates them, and so that if my SEO was a 20 by doing a couple of things that it says there and to go into the keyword phrase optimization, I could probably get up to somewhere between a 90 and 100. Now, if I want to know what my people are looking for, and not just what Tubebuddy thinks or YouTube thinks. I can't go into YouTube as a search engine and start a sentence and let YouTube finish it and see what's, you know, how do you, if I want to put something about a certain kind of food or restaurant, it might finish the sentence and that tells you what people are looking for. Be careful because if you're already using that search a lot, they're going to be partial to your search and give you what you want. So try to go into incognito where you are able to start a sentence all over that nobody's touched. I use a couple of things. I use ChatGPT if I need to know, answerthepublic.com, Google itself, because if you have something in Google, you go all the way to the bottom, it'll tell you other things that were searched. So it'll tell you what people are searching on today for something, and then you scroll down, it'll say other searches that people are making about this topic. And then you're absolutely right. You want to make sure you go to your competition. There's a lot out there that your research is going to be great. Who's doing what you want to do? Go there and see why are they successful? If you have Tubebuddy, you'll be able to see all their tags and you'll be able to see their keywords. And so you want to go in and say, oh wow, look at these are the tags they used. And you can copy the tags. Nobody's going to tell you not to. Just make sure those tags align with what your topic is and all that. You don't want to steal somebody's tag, but has some popular name on it or guest name that you didn't have. And so you go to your competition, you can call it or co-opetition person and state, look at their title. How did they title it? How do they fill out their description? Do not copy it. But you could take all the content you have. You could take the transcript if you want, put it into chat GPT or whatever your AI favorite is, and say, I don't want to have any problems with copyright issues or I just want you to take this and help me do my own version of this and make sure that you look at what keywords are out there that I might be able to use. And anything you can do that can get the most current again, you want to also besides getting something current, you want to get something that is long lasting, right? Is it evergreen? So if you're looking up today's news, if you have a news channel, sports channel, I don't know if Kevin's here, you have to be very careful about bringing up only current material and expecting it to be evergreen five years from now. But you can put some things out that are. So you want to make sure that you not only keep your people in tune for today, but that you keep them in alignment that they could look it up for 10 years. How did hammer and nail into the wall is never going away. But if people are going to be looking up today's news, probably not a few people, historians or things like that. Is that answering your question?

It does. Absolutely. I just want to ask a clarifying question, though, about the tags and the keywords, if you look at that. You had talked before about using them on the channel side. Are the channel and the episode ones all the same? Should you use some of the same? You know, let's make sure that let's make sure we're being really clear about it. So do we have to do it like one time for the channel setup and then every single time redo the whole thing or just some of them to cover the content?

I love the way you ask that. So, yes, the channel is less work. You go in before you start anything on your channel or if you have a channel already, Go into your channel. It's in the back. You have to look up your YouTube studio on the right column. It takes you over to a left column that has settings and customization. Those two tabs are about everything you'll need to set up your channel correctly. Get with somebody if you need to. Contact me, contact Tracy, whatever you need to do. Get it done. It's almost like a set and forget, but you don't want to let go of your business. So if your business changes a lot, and you're promoting different things, you need to go back in there. I went and I found out that most of my, at one point I had a, I wanted a predominantly female audience and I found out that 60% of my audience was male. And so basically I had to change titles and descriptions and my content with artwork on my banner. I changed it to eventually switch over to 60% women. And now I'm back to both men and women. So you want to take a look at your channel and see has anything changed? Maybe put a reminder once a month. once a year, every six months, and redo it if you need to do that. So that's the first thing. Because once you do it, you could do it, you could breathe. All right. Like I said, that description is important. The trailer videos are vitally important. There's one for new people and there are some for subscribers. So you want to make sure you draw your people in. To do the videos, that is also important because every video does have to have its own set of optimization. But here's the thing, if you use some tools like TubeBuddy, you can have these in a template. They call it an upload default. You can have as many upload defaults as you want. So if you do shorts, if you do interviews, if you want something teaching how tos, if you have testimonials, favorites, anything like that, you create a template for that. And every time you upload a video, you click on the template that follows that video, that style, and then you upload it comes auto populates into your video details. and all you have to do is fill in whatever didn't get filled in. Some of them have chapters in there, and chapters change. So you would just take out this chapter section, add that in, or the titles change, but a lot doesn't. The links that you want to share, the next steps you want to share, the videos. So that is a huge Time Saver. And all you have to do is set it up in the back office where we're talking about where you set everything else up to set up your channel. Set it up first. It's a little bit of work, but then you'll Always have that information when you go to upload a similar video.

This is why we have Fran on again and again, because that was so power packed. Like you wanted to take notes and that's also why we have a blog post so that you can just go there and go, what did Fran say? And like, and rewrite that for yourself and go, oh, I got to fix this setting and that setting and do this. So Fran's available for that. I want to make sure that we did answer that question completely in that the tags that we use in our channel Do we use 100% of them in the episode? Do we use 60% of them? What would you say we do when we're using keywords in our channel that we want to have related to our video?

Okay, so you can set up in your upload default to have the same tags that you have in your channel tags. All right. I don't know if you're asking to do it. There's five characters.

Is it okay to use just those and never think of it again? or do we really need to have them custom for every single video and have them be different?

What I do is I use the 500 characters in the channel and in the video, different ones, some are the same. And then I delete the ones that don't apply and I go and I search for either a list that I may have created or I go and find the best keyword for today and I add those in. So maybe it's 50 50 by the time I put it up, but I I'm into put it all in and delete mode. Some people only put in 50% of the tags and then go fill it in. That's up to you how you like I get. Sometimes I am busy and I like to know that I have 500 characters for my tags in there and I'll go back and clean it up later. And that's very important. I just want to let you know, do not go public on your videos until you have optimized your channel and your videos. Because when you put up a video, YouTube's watching you. They want to know what kind of response you get in the first few hours or the first few days. And if you don't have it set up, if you're not wearing your pretty.

Dress, then they're not going to know it, right? You want to go ahead and put your best clothes on before you hit. You want it all done before you hit public. I love it. I love it. Okay, let's go to those trending topic ideas in that this like idea of keywords, Tom, and using it for tools and strategies for keyword research, competitive benchmarking, other shows. What do you recommend? What do you tell our clients?

So keyword research that applies to podcasting. really is the same keyword research that would apply to your website and your blog content on your website. Again, Google is the number one search engine podcast, and especially when you make an episode landing page, a blog post for every episode, you get so much more value out of your podcast episodes. And so the same kind of keyword research that would apply, which can be done obviously in Google, in AI, Gemini chat GPT can be done with tools like SEM Rush, something that is more of a general internet and website keyword tool. And there's a difference though in what that does for a podcaster is it informs you of your maybe details and future topics you want to talk about on your podcast, because the way you're going to rank on more keyword phrases is to speak on them. not you can't in podcasting, there's no way to put tags and have your episode show up for certain topics that you don't talk about, or maybe that you talk about a different way than the tags might be. It's very organic. So you are passionate about your topic, you know your topic, you speak on it, and then you convert that content into other forms, written forms, you're going to show up for it. So normal keyword research AI is a big friend in that. And the wonderful thing about podcasts is that if you're really putting your content out as a podcast first, that's your primary medium, but you're also putting it on YouTube. And that's what I mean by that. And I'm going to come back to sort of YouTube first also. But if you're putting it out as a podcast first, you can absolutely do competitive research. If there are other podcasts in your niche and they've been out longer than you and they have more topics, go to school on there. episode topics, you can look at what other people have done and model some of your topics after that. And if you can get a hold of the RSS feed for a competitive podcast, you can feed that right into AI and have it help you and do that research. You can also do research on other similar podcasts. So the RSS feed for any competitive show, there are some resources that are available. may not be able to get it completely free. You might have to pay a little something to get the actual RSS feed if the podcast hasn't published it. Not all do, but some do. And then there's a lot of research that can be done there, but it's really more about topic planning than it is topic optimization after the fact. You can optimize any podcast for SEO, But only for what was said within it, not for something else that doesn't exist organically within that episode. So that's, I guess, a little distinction. And the other thing I would say is podcasters certainly an awful lot of podcasts these days are put out as videos on YouTube. So you can use some of the same YouTube search tools, TubeBuddy and such, to do research for your podcast to the extent there are some of those competitive shows that you might want to learn from out there as YouTube shows. But there is a significant difference though. I truly believe after more than a decade of being a podcaster, a reluctant YouTuber, and then now everything we do is put on YouTube for our podcast, that I truly believe that audience, and I'm using that in the broad scope of YouTube and podcast, audience members are either viewers first or prefer audio first. I don't think they are the same people. The same people are not going to subscribe to your podcast, listen to audio all the time. And even if they subscribe to your YouTube channel, they may not view the audio all the time or vice versa. People that are primarily video watchers might subscribe to a podcast, but they probably prefer to watch than they do. listen. So there are very good reasons to be in both places to really catch the widest audience possible. But I just want people to understand who are listening that the same optimizations are not going to work in both places and the user experience is very different. And you can't really do it one way and have it work everywhere.

So that's, I think you're tying this to like the topic, the planning side of things, right? Because that's what you were saying with the keyword research that the planning side of it makes it a little bit more difficult to have it do both things at the exact same time in equal measure. It just doesn't work like that. When you start to planning, you're going to plan for one or the other as its primary, and hopefully it still works as a secondary. Well, let's just talk quickly about this before we move on from keywords completely. Do we pay attention to trending topics and adapt our keyword strategy?

Yes. If you're gonna podcast for 200, 300, 600 episodes, even if you're very passionate about your topic, you're an expert in it, you gotta keep putting a different perspective and bringing something new to your content all the time. So trending topics are very important. We have found in the last two years that not only are AI related topics very popular, but in fact, AI is finding its way into all of our businesses and all of our weekly workflow, dealing with podcasts and video. I mean, you heard Fran saying using ChatGPT for this or that. AI is definitely a trending topic and episodes that really share that the topic is somehow related to AI are going to get a lot more attention. I remember, Tracy, you had experience being an ink columnist for four years that titles that had the brain in it, any mention of the brain, tended to get a lot more interest. And that may not have been a trending topic, but it was a trending reality of viewer engagement of articles over that period of time. It may still be true today, I don't know. And it does depend a little bit on your subject matter to what you're talking about. Obviously, if you have a political podcast, trending topics are critical and probably are all you talk about. That may not be true with most independent podcasts that are not doing something that is so grounded in the current news of the day or the week.

Right.

And that's, I think, just before we move on and ask Fran the same thing, because I think it's actually more critical on YouTube than it is here in podcasting. But we have to remember that podcasting is really evergreen as a focus. So the last thing I want to do is really take on something that's too trendy that heads into this like flash in the pan, it's only going to be good for today and then it'll be gone tomorrow. And I don't want to anchor it in that much time. But I do want to pay attention to something that may be growing as a trending topic. So that's a really good way to put it, Thomas. Like you're looking for something that's going to expand in and be very related to your core area.

Or gives you a new reason to talk about a topic you talked about years before, months before, right?

That's great. Yeah.

New life into evergreen episodes. And we do this a lot in Feed youd Brand and, you know, in any of our podcasts that we've done, Tracy, is that Yeah, I'm just talking about, I guess I thought your question was, do you inject trending topics into it? That doesn't mean it's all you talk about. It just gives you another thing to talk about and shine a light on that important underlying deep topic or subject that is going to benefit you as a podcaster and if it's related to your business, your business as well.

Well, great. Well, Fran, what about over on YouTube? Because we were talking about it being a little bit more critical over there to actually tap into what people are searching on today. The trending matters, right?

Yeah.

You started saying everything that I was going to say. So I wanted to bring some new light to what you already did that I agreed with wholeheartedly as far as stay in touch with your trends. Very important. Why? Because you'll look like the pro. Even if it's not your regular topic, if you say, oh, this week is what's new in taxes, or this week is what's new in knitting, whatever it is, and you can actually use this on your channel every week. This is how you bring people back to your channel. every week we're going to post the latest information on every Wednesday we're going to post it. So please subscribe. Please hit your button, your bell, and then people will get notified of that new video you put on your channel in a section called this week's or I usually put YouTube tips or, you know, this week's tips, and that brings people to you. So they want to know that you're the pro, and you also want to keep the information to tell them how often you're updating and, and how you want them to use it. And I agree that you could be just telling them how it's updated, what you've been telling them for years, that this no longer exists. And I use it in my group. Every week I go through what's new. And sometimes I'm on a call with a client, and while I'm there, I say, oh, well, that's new. You know, I didn't even know it changed. I didn't even get the update yet.

Right.

So I like to tell people, that's how fast it changes. It wasn't there yesterday, you know, so. People aren't in the business that you're in. You're their professional. So stay with that trending information to give them the information they need.

Great.

I'm going to set the ground here before we're going to be over time and I hope everybody can stick around a little bit longer, but we're just going to, I want to make sure we completely wrap this up. So I'm just going to make the statement here so that we don't have to go into why and what's going on with that, but listens matter in the scope of whether or not your show is going to show up on new and noteworthy. It's going to like, be valuable to people. It's going to have more listeners. It's going to get referred to more people. So listeners matter, right? How much something is listened to matter on the same thing. Views matter. Now, I discovered this week from talking to Fran that views don't actually do anything having to do with getting you qualified for monetization, which was a shocker to me. But the views matter because that's what helps you get circulated. It's what helps you show up in that when somebody types in the topic, the ones with more views are going to come to the top and to show. So with keeping that in mind, both of you, that the views and the listeners matter, right? The, the volume of numbers are going to make your show better and bigger and be more visible. If you could afford the time or money to do only one outside platform, outside of YouTube, outside of the podcast app, promotion activity, what would it be to drive more listeners or viewers? What one promotion activity If you only had time for one, time or money for one, would you do to drive viewers or drive listeners?

Who would you want to go?

Fran, let's go with you because you're our fabulous guest.

Thank you. Okay, so the first thing for me, the thing that is priority for me is engagement, promoting engagement. So if I'm going off the channel, what will I do to make sure Not people see it, but they participate it like I am the person they want to have a conversation with. That means I'm going to be asking questions, I'm going to be answering questions, I'm going to ask them to take an action, call to actions, create engagement. So what is it that I want to do? Let's say I was taking it from YouTube to Facebook, I might share it on several Facebook groups and ask them to share it again, but have them do something that's promotional for you. what do you think about this? How would you handle this differently? Take our poll. Subscribe to the channel is usually getting a little old. Subscribers are not what matters this year. It's just who is engaged. So we love the numbers. We love I search and I say, oh, this person has 3 million subscribers. I think they must be better than that other person. So I grew quicker. So it still works for people psychologically, but it's not making a difference everywhere. So you want to make sure that you keep them attached. What are the questions you want to ask? how do you want them to move forward? And we've been doing that for years, but right now, this year, it's the most important thing is you want to make sure you're going after what they're looking for and you give them what they want and you start talking about their world and asking them to take actions in it.

But does anything that I could do that I could spend my time doing over on Facebook or over on Instagram actually drive views to that video? What activity Could I be doing off channel that would drive views? That's, I think, the question that I always have about YouTube. Like, it's like, how do I drive more views for it?

Well, it depends your audience. Are you constantly building your audience on any of these platforms so that you know who's seeing it? It's only a percentage, right? That's another thing is you've got to diversify, start repurposing your stuff coming back only a very small percentage are seeing it the first time. So why are you sending your best videos out once. So you might want to repeat them. You might want to put them in a playlist or someplace where people could get to them. So they need to see that video more than once. More, it needs to be posted more than once because chances are they're not going to see it again. So you have to make sure a new audience get people's eyes on it. That's the thing I would do. I don't know if that's what you.

Were hoping to hear, but that's what I would do. Well, you know, I think that that's the real issue with YouTube that I find is that really YouTube is really focused on YouTube and it really doesn't care about anything off track.

Site.

But if you are unable to or not yet there, like you're starting, it's extremely hard to get up to that level because there isn't a lot of off platform things that can drive views for you. Pay for them, but like, I don't think they're valuable, right? It doesn't really do much for you at the end of the day. You can go live. Live would do well if you're tagged.

Correctly, either if it's on Facebook or even on YouTube, you can go live and then people have access to what you're like. People search for live videos. What's live today? I want to go jump in somewhere.

There.

So if you went live, you, you bring a whole new audience in. Even if it's how to or q a once a week for 15 minutes about what you do, start bringing a new audience, start watching it grow. Sort of like any other platform. Where have you showed up live? And you could actually go into the thanks program. If you've got 3, 000. What was it? 3, 000. Watch time. I'll have to tell you what that is in just a second. It wasn't in the Forefront of my mind, but you can actually join the thanks or super thanks section of earn, and you could be getting tips. People could leave your tips on your videos, and they could leave your tips.

On your live, like money tips, not like tips on how to.

Yeah, that's what you're gonna do.

Yeah.

It was 3, 000 hours. I actually wrote that down from when we talked last time. Yeah.

If you don't have an audience, start going live.

Start going live. That's great tip.

Great.

Tom, what about. in podcasting? What off-channel thing could you do to drive more listens?

So, I'll try and keep this short, but this is going to be an interesting story because over a decade of podcasting experience, you and I have dialed in doing many, many things that I would call organic to get the maximum reach. for and from actually all the content that we record as podcast episodes. So I'm going to say there's two things I'm going to say. One is again, still organic and something, I'm not going to say that it's easy for you to do yourself because it takes a lot of work. And then our longtime listeners on Feed your Brain have heard us say this one before, which is creating a blog post for every episode. That is the number one thing you can do that really will raise awareness of you, your content, the topics you talk about, your show organically over time. And it pays off year after year after year when you do it because you build equity in your website and keyword rankings and free traffic through Google search as a result of the blog. So that's number one.

Hold on, wait, before you go on to number two, I want to say that it just occurred to me as you're saying that because we embed the YouTube video that it may be actually a really great off-platform driver to views. And if we look at our views, I know that the majority of them come from our website and not from YouTube. So that is also something I hadn't thought of until you just said that.

And this whole episode has been sort of set up as YouTube versus podcast, Tom versus Fran, to an extent, which is more for fun than reality, because I very much appreciate and respect Fran and her expertise in YouTube. And I'm not trying to necessarily say one's better than the other because here's the thing as a podcaster, I believe YouTube is critical. I may not be as much a proponent of making sure every little thing on YouTube is authorized the best you can be on YouTube. I don't know that most podcasters want or need to do that. But it is critical to put your full length videos on YouTube to embed them in your blog post because then Google gives you higher rankings for your keywords on that blog post because it includes a YouTube video and they own YouTube. So anyway, that's again, a little bit more about why a blog is important. But after many years of doing this and still needing to find more ways to help podcasters be found by more listeners outside of the ecosystem, how do you reach more people who aren't already on YouTube and aren't already looking on podcast apps. How do you get found? Is it gonna sound self promotional, but it was created for a really good purpose to meet a need of podcasters. It's why we created Promocast. And this is a way to actively proactively market your podcast to new potential listeners. And it is entirely outside podcasting, YouTube and social media ecosystems. We've been doing this for now two years, I believe, and it's really been adjusted and dialed in more. I'm very pleased most recently to see most podcasters having about 500 at least clicks to their whatever they want them to go, their podcast landing page or their, it could go to your Apple listening for your show, it could go to your YouTube channel if you're trying to promote the YouTube channel more. but ads for your show driving clicks to where you want them to go for your show. And it's in an ecosystem of more than a thousand mobile phone apps that are not podcast apps, they're not YouTube, it's not video apps. These are common apps that people use that in order to use it for free, periodically they have to watch and listen to a 15-second ad, not a huge two-minute ad. or anything like that, but a quick thing. And it is a great way, as long as your ideal profile listener or viewer has a mobile phone, those users have at least a dozen of these apps on their phone that they're using, and they are gonna see ads for your show at some time or another. And you can actually raise awareness of your show in a proactive way, not just putting something out there on social media and hoping your guest is going to share it. Hope is not a strategy. So I am always after, what else can I do proactively to be found by more people?

Well, I'm going to wrap this up. I love that answer. I mean, mobile app advertising is really, I mean, there's so few things that we can capture people's attention nowadays with a decline in social media viewing in general. Like, it's getting harder and harder. So I love that idea. Send money, a little bit of money, though. It's not too super expensive. So money spent and the blogging is time spent. So, like, you kind of have a little of both that you just covered there when I said one activity.

Right.

But you. You got. You squeeze them both in. So I want to wrap this up and have you guys help me recap the end here. So, Tom, I'm gonna start with you because I want to end with Fran and give her the last word here. But now that you've heard both sides here, What is your biggest takeaway for a common and a different, a commonality and a difference between podcasting and videocasting that you're gonna take away and say, yeah, I'm gonna recommend this, or I'm gonna apply this, or I'm gonna do more of this. So a commonality and a difference. What did you hear today?

Well, I was gonna say a commonality that surprised me was that audio is so important for YouTube, although that's not something that I don't already do, right? I mean, as a podcaster first, I always do that.

But that's good because you can recommend that more.

Well, especially to YouTubers. I mean, it does drive me nuts when I see even contributors on television, like on a news program or something, regular contributors. This is part of their job. They do it for a living and they have a crappy microphone. Their audio sounds horrible and they're on national television. I mean, come on. Doesn't take more than an actual desired intention to have good audio and a $50 microphone. you just need to use it. And so that drives me nuts. So audio is actually the very most important thing that I think is universal.

So that commonality, what difference? What difference says, I'm gonna do that on video and do that differently on podcasting. Is there anything that you took away from what it was?

A difference that I'm gonna do differently with video now?

Or recommend?

Yeah, I recommend. Well, I don't know that we specifically talked about this today, but if you're going to be on YouTube and put your videos up there, as I recommend your long form videos or podcasts in order to put them, embed them in your blog or the episode landing page, whatever, you have video. And even, you know, a lot of podcasters record the video, even if they don't publish it on YouTube. But you know what? I really think they should all be doing because it's not that hard, cut that into some short clips and put them in YouTube shorts. I'm seeing a lot of podcasters who have, just because of their subject matter, have actually a pretty small podcast listening audience, but they're getting a huge number of views of their shorts on YouTube. A couple of relatively new podcasts that just in the first couple months, I'm seeing that happen. 'cause I keep an eye on them, right? Because we do support people with not just their podcasts, but to put their stuff on YouTube as well. And video shorts, it's a different type of a YouTube viewer who is going through shorts. But you know what, video is the currency on social media, not just on YouTube. So cutting that video up into shorts and putting them out there, not that hard to do. And I think you're going to get more exposure. by doing that.

Wonderful. Well, let's have Fran have the last word here on differences and commonalities. What did you hear today that either surprised you or you think are the most critical to re-highlight to everyone?

Yeah, it was really good to see the contrast or if there was any. So that was pretty cool. And you're right with the shorts. Get your shorts out there and just remember that your short viewers may not be the same people who are looking at your long form videos. They may click over, but they may not. So you want to make sure you're aware that that may or may not happen. So the thing that I found was the same was we all have free real estate and we have to strongly encourage that you use the free real estate. Use all of your characters, you make your titles, whatever you have to do, find every place that Podetize offers you to put in information because you never know who's going to be checking where you may be modifying your description or making maximizing it for an audience. But you forgot to put something over here where people are checking just maybe not as many cover as much territory. I was a realtor for 25 years. I always use this. But yeah, cover your use your free real estate. Also, there was something about what you were saying. I forget what it was, but you have strategic partners out there. So you may not get anything if you have your guests and they're not sharing you, but there are strategic partners who are willing to support you and you can create a certain department of your business. where you get asked people to commit to share you. So I just want to follow up on that. You know, I'm in an interjector. So the thing that I found different was that we, we have to do a lot more work to keep people on the channel because they're searchers. And you just put out your podcast. They either like you or they don't, but they're not out there, like, scrolling and looking up things. So we have to worry about grabbing your attention in seconds where you don't necessarily have that.

Yeah, we have to grab them to subscribe to the channel in general, but once they do, they stick around, right? So yeah, we have more, it's easier to build loyalty, right? That is a big aha. I think I so enjoyed this because it got to see like what I think isn't what Tom thinks. And so that's always really good to that. But here's what I really heard is the prolificness matters. Putting out more content on YouTube, helps with what Fran just said. And putting out content, a lot more content matters on podcasts as well, because we see the ones that have the most content tend to get more subscribers. So like it's always that case where more leads to more and the algorithms seem to reward that over time. So I think that that's something as well. And then my commonality is exactly what Fran said. I agree. If you are not checking all the boxes, then you're not playing the algorithm game. And you're leaving money on the table. You're leaving subscribers that you're not getting. You're leaving viewers that you're not getting because you just didn't check a box. And I'm a completionist, and I don't know what that means. It means if I start a book, I have to finish it. Like, it's just. I'm unable to not complete a checklist. So those of you out there who are completionists, you're in luck. There's something you can check all these boxes. And if you're not, go get one to help you. Go get one. It's your support staff.

Right?

Well, I so enjoyed this today, both of you. I like, we may have to do this again on a totally different subject because I think it's really powerful. Like, we will do it about thumbnails and cover art or something like that. Really nitty gritty and have fun with it. So I hope you'll come back again and enjoy that.

I would.

This was fun. It kind of like, I'm going to date myself with that movie, she said, right? I mean, this, I think it's a fun, different format. we're engaging in.

I'm not that competitive, but I would have liked a winner of some sort, you know? I don't know.

So let's do that. Anyone who's, who's watching the videos, like, let's give a winner. Fran or Tom. It doesn't matter to me.

I don't care who wins. I just want to say, did I wear my lucky pearls for nothing? That's all I want to know. Okay.

Yeah.

Let's declare a winner in the comments. That'll help our engagement, right? Fran and so, yes, I love that. Well, everyone, thank you for being here for Feed youd Brand. We are live everywhere, every week at Wednesday noon Pacific time. So we'll be back here. It won't be the same format. It'll be back to our other formats, but Fran's coming back with some more episodes as we go forward. She and I just recorded a special episode that we're going to simulcast, which means we'll air it live, but it won't be live because Tom and I are going to be on a little vacation, but we did that recording. for June, so it's going to be coming up.

So make sure you watch. They're referencing that they've already seen something.

We haven't created yet. That was really fun.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was very, very meta. So we were doing that. So please come back and watch and stay tuned. And if you subscribe to our Channel on YouTube, so I'm going to do our little YouTube plug for Fran here. But if you subscribe to our Channel on YouTube, you'll get notifications when we go live. So that's really helpful. And if you subscribe to our podcast feed and feed your brand in any of your favorite podcast apps. Tom and I record a special episode we call next up that gives you a sneak peek of what's live. You won't get this episode for two weeks before it actually publishes. So if you want to and you're, like, so intrigued and you just can't wait the two weeks, you can check out the next up episode by going straight to the live stream here on YouTube and check that out. So thank you, everybody, for listening. We so appreciate you listening and watching. We so appreciate you. And we'll be back next time here on Feed youd Brand.

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