Let Your Voice Be Heard Through Podcasting With Tracy Hazzard Incredible Life Creator With Dr. Kimberley Linert

Hi, this is Dr. Kimberly Leonard and you're listening to Incredible Life Creator podcast. My guest today is Tracy Hazard. Tracy is an authority Magazine Inc. Columnist and host of four top ranked podcasts including Feed you'd Brand a cio Top podcast for entrepreneurs. Tracy helps major publications, sports stars and entrepreneurial influencers brandcast their original messages to the world through podcasts, video casts and blogs. Welcome.

Thank you for having me.

Yes, thanks for being on here. And I know you are multi talented. I'm so excited to have you on here. And my podcast is a little bit more personal than business.

That's okay, right? Yes, because today business is personal, right? You've had to get really raw and personal, especially when you're out there podcasting. You're putting yourself out there all the time. I, you know, sometimes we like personal things creep in and you don't realize it when you're, when you're podcasting. And that's what happens to me sometimes. And I remember when we were did our very first podcast and that was almost five years ago and we were talking about ordering ice cream from a service. So there was this great woman who, who made this amazing homemade ice cream and she had brought it to my brother in law's birthday and it was fabulous. It was so good and I was dying for some. And she couldn't get a dairy license.

So a dairy license was harder to come by in Orange County, California than a liquor license. And so she couldn't get a dairy license. And so she was trying to figure out alternative ways to start her business. And one of them she would put up these Facebook flash sales of whatever. So she'd go to a commercial kitchen, she'd make her ice cream and then she'd. And you know, and then whatever date or whatever it was, she'd come back and she'd say, okay, it's ready today. And you know, and these are the flavors and you would just basically say, I want a pint. And she show up at your house and you pay her or you, or you PayPal her and she'd show up and deliver it to you. And so I'm telling this story because it's like a business lesson, but it's also something really personal because this is a. I love ice cream. It's like one of my favorite things. And so the message came back from my audience. They were like, you didn't tell us what flavors you ordered. Like, shame on you. You didn't give us enough personal information. Right.

So what flavors did you order?

I think I ordered I think at that time it was, it was salted caramel, which is kind of my thing. A couple of years ago, that's like all I could eat was salted caramel. I would try it everywhere, so I'm pretty sure that's what it was. Yum.

Yeah, I know.

Doesn't that sound good right now? It's so hot here. So.

So that is awesome. So I'd like to kind of just start from the beginning. So so many times we look at people and we go, wow, how did they get there? You know, you're doing all these many things, wearing so many hats. Tell me a little bit about where you grew up, how your family was. I know you didn't start out podcasting. You were doing other things first. So tell us a little history about you.

Yeah, so, you know, I grew up in kind of an interesting household. My mom's an artist. She in fact has been for only the last couple of years showing her art. Like she's actually been in again. She just got accepted into a gallery for the fall. So, like, it's a big deal to her that the business side is starting to come in and so. But she was a fine artist and a craft artist for most of my life. And my dad's an engineer and he used to ran multi billion dollar projects around the world for an oil and gas company. And so we did a lot of moving and early on we were on some job sites and things. I lived in South Africa as a child at the height of apartheid in the late 70s. And so I got to see the world in a very different way. And my dad was also really a huge reader. He still is in his retirement. And so love of literature, so came from that early on and sort of.

A perspective view that he gave me that I think has served me well through my entire life is this idea that you can't have one source material, that history, literature, all of those things bring us perspectives as to what was really going on in a time and an age and what's happening. And when we read something, we take it as the answer and the only thing that's a huge mistake. And so he really brought me this idea of like, you're going to research something, you're going to read about something, you're going to learn about something, whatever it might be, if it's for fun or it's, you know, for work, you're going to read five things. Like you're going to read totally different pieces of viewpoints and start to get a bigger, broader perspective. On it. And it has really served me well through my entire life just having that idea that there isn't one, one answer. And so you read a book and you're like, okay, that's the answer. I'm doing it. No, I want to say, I want to see that bigger picture of things. So I think that's kind of, you know, always given me my start. But I've had this sort of treading between the technical and how to world, having an artistic vision and innovation side to the way that my mind works, that those two things have a wonderful balance. And I, and I am grateful to both of them for bringing that into my life. And you know, it ended up with me heading into art school, much to my father was not too happy about that one. And the funny story about that goes, was that we were, I was, I was applying to Brown University and we were, it was one of the many schools I was gonna apply to. And I wanted to leave Orange County, California and go as far east as possible back to where I was born and where my family was from. And so I, that's where I just wanted, I wanted to weather like, because that sounds like an 18 year old thing to say, right? Like, oh, I just, I want to go to where there's seasons. And so I go all the way across the country and we're like checking out these schools and we're on a tour. And at Brown University is up on the hill in Providence, Rhode island. And a little bit farther down the hill is Rhode Island School of Design. And my mom's dream would have been to go to that art school. Like it was the, you know, it's the Harvard of art school. So like it's like a big deal. And so to her that was like the thing. And so we're, so she just wanted to go on the tour of it. And so she's trying to convince me as we're, we just went on our tour at Brown and she says to me, you know, RISD right here, why don't we just check it out? And I say, why would I ever want to go to art school? And lo and behold, I get wait listed at Brown. I don't, I don't get in early decision. And I decide I'm frustrated. And after talking with some counselors and everything decided actually what I really wanted instead of to go to journalism school was to instead get the art background and the graphic design. And then if I wanted to go to have a graduate degree in journalism, I could do that at that point. And So I applied to art school without ever having seen it, went to school with never having visited the campus because I was such a dumb teenager.

Right.

You know, so obstinate and stubborn. But that's, you know, that's how it happened. And then I met my husband my very first day of college, so.

Nice. So he was an artist too?

Yeah, he was in industrial design and I was in textile design eventually. And when you're freshmen, you're, you're like just in the general art degree and so. Yeah, but he insulted me my very first day of school and you know, like that kind of thing. And then we became friends and then more than that and we got married before we actually even graduated. So we got married the January of our senior year.

Wow. So how long have you been married?

27 and a half years.

My goodness.

Yeah. So we have three daughters, 24, 10 and five. And my 24 year old works with us in our business. She is our champion of order and reason. So she does all our COO things and manages our 50 employees worldwide and keeps us aligned and does all kinds of our automation and systems. So she got a lot more of that side of my dad.

Yeah. Well, how does that work, working with your husband? Because some people would say, well, I'd want to have some separation some of the time.

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, the thing is, is that, is that for us a lot of times it doesn't feel like work. So we, you know, for us it's a passion, it's, it's wanting to have impact, it's a mission, it's us moving forward. So for most of what we've been doing and we've been working together on and off for almost 25 years. So you know, the first couple of years was the only time that I definitely wasn't working with him in some capacity. And so we love it more than we don't. Right. So for us it works out really well. But we also have really different jobs and different minds and that's what people don't understand. It's not like we're a duplicate of each other. We're completely different. I'm always out there out front doing interviews and being on stage and doing those kind of front level things and hum's great behind the scenes doing the tech and the innovation and talking with potential clients and he's great with sales. So like there's just a different model of where we fall into our skill sets. And I travel a lot so we don't actually spend all day, every day working Together as most people think it doesn't work like that, but it's nice to have be aligned. I think this is the part that most people don't understand your business. If you're in business and your partner, your spouse, your significant other is not aligned with that business vision, it becomes very stressful on your relationship. But when you're both in it together and you have the same personal goals and the same business goals, I actually think it makes it easier for us to be in alignment with the decisions that we have to make as a company.

That makes sense. And then I know you enjoy what you do, but what about family time or how did you cut that?

So our daughters complain, I will be honest with you, our daughters absolutely complain that we talk too much business because we over the years haven't done this. Like we're not allowed to talk about business after 5pm because sometimes after 5pm that's the first chance I've gotten to get off a phone call and actually say anything to them. So like, you know, we don't necessarily want to cut that off. And also because most of our business relies on us being innovative and creative. So what problem are we going to solve? And that doesn't have a timeline, that doesn't work from nine to five. So the creative process takes what it takes and sometimes it takes collaboration and communication. And so we've learned not to cut that off, that it hurts each other. We are very careful of like last night I had a headache and I was just like overwhelmed and exhausted. Like okay, that's no go timeframe. So we're sensitive to each other's how we feel about it. Tom's also not a night person. So like having a conversation with him at night is not a great idea. Like, you know, having a conversation with me at 6am is not a great idea either because I'm not, I'm a little bit grumpy. So like you know that you come to find those balancing things over time of where we're okay with that. But it does stress the kids some that we talk a lot about business, but they also really understand and respect what we do. It is who we are, it's what we're about, it's what we're building and they're in support of that. But they also need their one on one time. So every night I always read to them when they go to bed. I put them to bed whenever I'm in town. And it's our time and I know it's gonna take 30 minutes. It's not gonna be a fast thing, and I'm never gonna rush that because that's their time. That's the specialness they expect from me. And so you've got to give, you know, you've got to give something of that's 100% of you. There's no phone. There's no other thing going to infringe on that timeframe. So I'm either here and I'm doing that or I'm not, and I'm away. And they respect that because, you know, when I'm there, I'm present.

Yes, yes. And you mentioned something about how creative you have to be. Talk to me about creativity and how that gives you fulfillment and how that plays in your life.

So for some people, you know, it can be a curse because you've got this creativeness running in you, and so you're always on the new idea, the next new thing. My friend Penny Zenka, she calls it squirrel. Right. You know, so you're on your next new squirrel. Right. Whatever that is. So. But we've learned over the years as being designers that, you know, there are products that are worth moving forward where. And there aren't. There are ones that are not. And everything has a criteria. But shutting down the creative process with I've got too much on my plate doesn't vet the really good ideas. So we find it really important in the creative process to talk about them. Do we shelve them? Yes. A lot of times we shelve them to come back to them. But a lot of times we come back to them because they are right. They're worth pursuing. They're the next great thing that we could be working on. They keep us in continual growth. They also accelerate the growth for us to be able to move those ideas forward. And sometimes they're little things. I mean, sometimes it's just a simple, like, we need to change this process because we're repeating tasks or we're doing. So you can apply your creativity in a small way or you can provide it in like, oh, our whole business needs to take a shift. So. But it fuels me because I cannot shut that down. It is who I am. I'm a conduit for ideas and for creative vision. So being built, putting myself into a position where I'm allowed to do that and it's accepted, and it's actually what is driving the company to grow it. It's important. It's important to do what fuels you as a part of it, rather than having the business train you.

Yes. And do you have certain rituals or ways that you go into that creativity. I know some people have like, some think time every day or what do you do?

So I don't. I don't have it quite like that. So actually, one of the very. So I write a column for Inc Magazine, as you mentioned. Early on, one of my first, first few interviews was with John Assaroff. And you know, he's renowned for like, you know, blocking your mind and letting that intuition flow and all of those things. So I asked him this question and I said, john, I think there's something wrong with me. I don't meditate well. My, my mind is always noisy. And he says to me, well, do you hear your ideas? And I said, absolutely. Like they, you know, they. They come out of me. I can't help it. And he said, that's okay. As long as you're hearing above whatever noise that's in your head, whatever that is, that's your processing. As long as you're recognizing that it's popping up for you, then you're. Then you're okay with whatever you're doing. And so for me, I think of it like a lot. My brain has a lot of white noise, right? It's a lot of things that it's processing at any given time and going on. And when it's ready, that idea will percolate to the top and it will come forward to me. And so. And so it's important to make sure that that does happen. So what? I try to reduce some of the extraneous stresses. So for instance, for me, I am a. I'm a really responsive person. Like, I like to make sure that I'm on top of my email, that I haven't missed anyone that I've responded back, that I've. If I say I'm going to refer people, you know, I want to make sure I've done it. So I got a lot of to do lists and things like that. And, you know, it's hard to clear a to do list, right? Like, that's the point of it, is it never ends, right? But what I do have is some processes where I file things. So like, if I've got an email inbox in the morning, by the end of the day, everything is actually gone out of my inbox. Now it might pop in again the next morning because I just set it to respond back and send it back to me in eight hours or something like that. But I clear it because it's like clearing your mind. So when I shut down my email There is none of that active in my mind anymore. It will actually be passive at that point. The reminder is going to come. I do not have to actively think about remembering that. And so that's part of the way that I do it. And my to do list is just that. It's a constant list of, like, you know, so that I'm writing it down and taking it out of the noise in my head. So for me, that's how I utilize them. And that has served me very well because it's. It's opened that up since I met with John and that first time. And I have learned how to meditate, and I've learned how to sleep better, which is what actually meditating gave me, was a whole better night's sleep. And I think when you sleep better, you have better ideas. And so that helps your ideas have an opportunity to process or the problems that you're trying to solve. Because if an idea is just an idea and it's not a solution to something, to me, it's not as viable of being something worthy of your attention when you're building something, like a big business.

Yes. And I know that you and your husband have created many, many, many products. So do you have one or two that were just like your. Your favorite or something that just gave you that spark or that. Oh, this is the best.

Yeah. So we're really proud. We had. We designed an office chair that has been in Costco for. I think it's coming on well, let's see. My daughter's seven years now. So it's seven years that it's been in Costco. And so that is like a platinum record in the product world because you sold $20 million of the product a year, year in and year out, and that kind of thing. And we don't still make money on it. Like, it already aged out of our royalty agreements and all of those kind of things. But I'm really proud that I made something that lasted that long, because it says that I designed something timeless. I designed something that people are utilizing, and they actually took it out for six months last year and brought it. People demanded it. So, you know, like, so that. So when something like that happens, you know that you. You know, you did a really good job. Not only did you. Every one of the stakeholders involved were happy with it. The consumers were happy, the retail buyers were happy. My client was happy. So, like, all of. And the manufacturer must have been happy, too, because they held the price as long as they did. So, you know, so all of those things Worked in everyone's favor. So that's when I feel really good about something. I don't love the idea that I've designed so many products that are disposable, like, so I've always tried to make them have a lot more life to them or hand me down or having something like that. That's been important to me. But the reality is that that was my livelihood was based on consumer, you know, consuming products. So, you know, designing for that consumption world. Now I didn't do consumables a little bit different, but you know, designing into products that, you know, you might put in your home and other things. So the fact that they may have ended up in landfill disappoints me.

So I was kind of happy to leave that. But we did about 250 products in 10 years. And so we did a lot of products that you bought every single day at your large superstore somewhere. And I occasionally see them on people's video or other things. And I think I did that. So we just saw our chairs. We're at a Mars station, not like actually on Mars, but like one of those simulation stations. And so our chairs were all in their facility. They had special casters though, I'm sure, because they needed a non static environment. But I was like, oh, how cool. They were cool enough to be in a space station, right? You know, that's really cool. I'm kind of asleep, so. I love that. Yeah, I love that.

Yeah. And so now you moved on and you started podcasting and you've been very successful at it. Now you're, you know, teaching, training other people. You have services for that to help people get their voice out. So how important is it for people to actually be heard and seen and get out into the marketplace?

You know, this is the thing even early on in our business and what we, what we did in product is, what we really knew is that you didn't put it out there. If you didn't start talking to people, if you didn't start vetting your ideas with the right audience and you didn't start to have an audience connection, then you actually wouldn't be successful. It'd take you a whole lot longer to get your products out or your services out into the marketplace. So the sooner you make an audience connection that's a right fit for you, actually, the better products and services you can design for them. So we didn't intend to be in the podcast business. We built a podcast for our own business and it worked so well that people Begged us to help them do theirs. So then I said, but I don't want to be a coach. I don't want to teach this. Because I just was like, it's really not me. And at the end of the day, we said, okay, well, we'll take on 12 of your shows, but we'll do it for you, and then you won't have to deal with this. And they were like, oh, that sounds even better than teaching me what you do. And so that's what, that's what happened. And so we started with a 1212 podcast beta group, did that for about almost a year, about nine months, and then said, you know what? This is. We're really onto something. Let's launch this into something bigger. And then we brought on about 100 shows the next year, and then we're at 250 shows now. And for the most part, we do done for you services for them, so they don't have to edit their own shows and they don't have to produce anything or do anything themselves or worry about production value and sound and all of those things. We also do video cast to podcast, to blogging, so we cover that full gamut. So we've taken away a lot of tasks that they now no longer have to do. They don't have to go and have graphics created. They don't have to go and request and have somebody put links in or remember says, this is gonna happen. Right? I'm your guest on the show, and at some point you have to remember the episode aired. I need to send a message to Tracy letting her know what those links are. Our team automatically built in an automated system that does it for our guests so that they never have to remember to do it. And so we just keep adding on little bits and pieces to shave off these things that you shouldn't be doing in your business and you shouldn't be doing to produce your show because they add no value. At the end of the day, us having this conversation, that's the value. Your listeners getting to listen to that conversation, that's the value. What happens in between, you're not personally adding value and it's distracting from your business. So what can we do to take that over and make it as cost effective and as easy to use as possible? So that's what we developed and done here. But also the other thing that I don't love, and I really have been disappointed, disappointed in the marketplace, and we have a lot of marketing gurus and people teaching courses and stuff, is that they have the They've done it once and then they teach it. And so they aren't doing it every single day. And you're not getting the current knowledge of how it works today. So we make it a practice to open a new podcast. Every single. About every six months, one of us is starting a new podcast. So we're personally experiencing how is this working. Plus we're working with all these shows that are launching every single day. So we're constantly on kind of brute force testing. Are the algorithms still working? Is this process still working? Has it failed? Has it changed? How can we stay on top of all of these new things that are going on? So, for instance, a lot of new people don't know that itunes just launched new categories. And if you didn't really pay attention to your emails and they send you a lot of emails, if you didn't read the fine print, you wouldn't know that there might be a new category that you could be in and you get brand new into that category. And there aren't going to be a ton of people and competitors in there because a lot of old shows aren't, you know, up on their show. So they don't care about it. They won't adjust their category and they'll be in one of the old categories. And all those brand new categories are going to have wide open space. So, you know, that's an opportunity and we can help our clients take advantage of it because we're paying attention to that. So that's, you know, that's what I love, is to make sure that my clients get their authority. They keep it, they know, they know where they add value and they get to keep doing what they love. And that's why we don't have a lot of people who quit podcasting. There's a pod fading, if you haven't heard that yet, but people quit their show, you will hear it as you go into it because there will be people who quit their show. And we call it pod fading. And they quit their show typically at 7, 11 and 25. And then if they make it to 100, they usually make it over 100 before they quit. And so if that 7, 11 or 25, it was way more work than they thought it was going to be. That's like the number, the number one reason. And so they got in over their heads, didn't understand what they were going to get into and they quit it. If it's 100, they probably their strategy and idea wasn't quite in alignment and they can't keep Doing something they don't love anymore. So, like that, you know, they ran out of like, you know, show ideas. And so that, that's what that happens. But in order. But we have a 2% pod fade. But the industry hasn't. Has. Out of 705,000 podcasts, only 140,000 are current. Are people posting new episodes every single week.

Wow. And I believe that because I've gone and seen podcasts, I thought, oh, I want some more. And they just stopped.

It just stops. And that's usually what happens. They just stop. They don't tell you why.

So if someone wanted to start a podcast, like, I'm very new at this, as you know, so I know that there's a lot of work in learning, a huge learning curve. What would be your best advice for someone who has a message they want to get out and how would they start?

So, you know, this is the thing. Look, look, even if your production's rough, if you're like, you know, you're not, you're stumbling on your questions, you're not, you know, you're just doing Facebook lives and turning them into podcasts, whatever that might be, Putting yourself out there is more important. Getting started is more important than anything else because you will get feedback back. And the first things that people say to you is, you know, wow, I love it. But would you make this show longer? Like I got. We got that early on we were making 20 minute shows because that was the standard advice. 20 minutes is the average commute and you should make a 20 minute show. And they said, well, we love that 20 minutes when it's you and Tom talking. But when you're interviewing a guest, can you make it twice as long? And so we said, yeah, sure. So all of our interviews are 45 minutes long. So, you know, or up to an hour, depending on how interesting it is. So we don't watch the clock anymore. We don't do it like that. We say, did we exhaust the topic and are we done and let's move on, or is this interview no longer interesting? Let's move on. But we learned that because our audience said that's what they wanted. And so if their audience wants something different from you, they will tell you, I interviewed a really great podcaster. So there's an app called Buffer that a lot of social media people use. And so it kind of schedules all yours. And so they started a podcast about five years ago called the the Science of Social Media. And early on they were doing these hour long shows because it was programmatic. And was common to what everyone was doing at the time. And yet they found out that their marketing agents went, wow, that's too long for us. We want 10 minute shows like. And so this minute they switched up their formula, their show just took off. But if you don't put yourself out there, you're not going to get the feedback. You need to know what to do next and know how to fix it and know, hey, this is working for me and now maybe I should invest some money, get a higher production value or, you know, get some more advisors and do of that. We offer free coaching to all of our clients. So even if they spend $49 just hosting with us, all the way up to Those that spend 4,000 or more a month with us, doesn't matter to us. They all get coaching and access to it because we want them to make sure that they don't fall into the 2% in our case that don't continue. But we don't want them to fall into that bigger percentage of not knowing what to do or how to grow. So that's really important is to making sure that you find some place that you're safe that you feel like, they're not selling me more stuff. They're actually making sure that I continue to be successful. They're nurturing me in this community.

Yes. And you talked about getting feedback. So as you're, you know, like, as I'm starting mine, I'm new, so as I'm starting mine, how do I get that feedback? Is it by just asking questions on the podcast and getting responses or how, how do you know what people want?

Well, so, I mean, you do have to start nurturing that community over time. So pick the place that you're most comfortable in. So whether it's Facebook or media social or LinkedIn or Twitter or wherever you're most comfortable in, wherever you have your biggest audience right now is probably the case where you're showing up and being authentically you already. And I don't mean this by I have 10,000 fans and you bought them or they're, you know, international ones who are never going to communicate. I mean, the one where engagement happens, you know, people comment and share and do things with you. So it could be Instagram, wherever that is. That's where you should put your biggest effort in pushing out your podcast initially because that's where the audience will automatically understand it's okay to communicate with you here. You're gonna take the feedback well, but when you do it, you say, what do you think? What what should I do next? And then also be really critical on yourself. Listen to your own show. Like, this is a people record stuff. Like, I do it all the. I mean, I'm busy. But I've also did it in the beginning, and I know it's okay now, but in the beginning, I. It was excruciating to listen to my own voice. Like, you know, and I was like, oh, my God, I sound like that. And I have a tendency to listen to podcasts on double speed. And as you can tell, I talk fast. So I'm like, I'm gonna sound like a chipmunk. Like, it's gonna be horrible. I can't listen to that, you know, so you. You. You don't listen to yourself. And that's a huge mistake because you should be listening with the ears and saying, wow, if this is hurting my ears because of. Of, you know, of the sound or the environment or that guest was just so droning on and so terrible how in the moment, right. Listening to it with that critical ear yourself is important. And be honest with yourself. It's like, would I have listened to that if I wouldn't have? Then fix your show. It's always capable of being fixed. So I have a webinar that I do. It's 12 mistakes that people make. And the real thing is that we make an inward focus. Like every single one of the little things that we do wrong, whether it's with our cover art or intro outro or all of those little things that. Classic mistakes in a podcast that doesn't end up succeeding, all revolve around the idea that the show was all about me and not about my audience. And that mindset right there, if you just put it in the mindset of it, is what my audience wants this to be. I'm always thinking of them. I'm improving because of them. They will accept the fact that you went through a couple of rough episodes and, you know, and. But you learn from it and you improve. They'll give you the benefit of the doubt because they are in desperate need of good information. That's new because there's only 140,000 out there, and there are 7 million listeners dying for new, you know, every single day, dying for new. New shows, new information. Yeah.

And how do you put yourself in that mindset of serving and, you know, giving your. Your listeners what they really want to hear?

So, I mean, I think that's where we get into our own way. We get into our own head all the time about, like, who we are, what we want to accomplish this is sales and push. And I've never been of that mindset because my job is always to be. My job has always been, when I'm designing products, is to advocate for the consumer because no one else in that process would if I didn't do that. So it is a. For me, that design mindset has always been focused on an end user. So whether it's a listener or it's someone buying something, that's my job was always to think that way. So if been easier for me than most. But I think, you know, having a service mindset, we all want to be helpful. We want to get out it. We want to be collaborative, we want to be helpful. So tap into that. Because there isn't a single. You know, there isn't most people who can sit out here and do it and stay selfish and all about you for very long. That's why their shows end. They can't. You can't keep that facade up, right? You can't just keep pushing and trying and selling and doing all of those things. You can't keep doing that and have it work for you.

So you're gonna feel it because you'll be like, okay, I can't think of anything else I can sell them. You know, don't run out of that. But there's always another way to serve them.

That makes sense to me. You know, I'm a doctor, so I'm always advocating for my patients. I'm always the one in between. So.

Yes. Well, and this is the thing is you come from a service industry, so you already have that in you to do it. It's just this outward focus of. It's hard when we're doing a business podcast because we want it to serve our business. But at the end, if you're focusing on them, they're going to reward you with their business. So it's a faster path. I think you and I both know Wendy Lipton Dibner, right?

Yes. Yes.

When you move people to action, right? And she talks about that at her events and everything. When you want to have impact, the worst thing you can do is focus on money. That if you want the money, then you focus on the impact and the money will flow. And because the impact matters. So that's what, you know, getting out there and testing your impact is this resonating on people. They don't care about the production value. If this message was necessary, they needed this. And the other part that I think is really important is to be where they need you the most. So if it's not in their ear, then it's not be on video. Do what is the best interest of that audience? Where do they need you to be? For most of us, we're serving people who are in pain or desperately need to learn something. They need to consume it as fast as possible, passively, or they're up at 2 in the morning stressed out. So we want to be on Google, we want to show up in search, we want to show up on itunes, we want to show up wherever they go when they're worried about something or they want to learn something new. And we want to be in all those places, but we don't want to also create content for every single one of those places. We want to do it once and repurpose it everywhere. That's important. Let's not make a job. We want to be where they are, but we also don't want to have to do it in those individual places.

Yes. And as you're speaking, what came to my mind just intuitively is trust and integrity.

Yes.

That it's just all about trust and integrity. Because when you're in your true integrity and you're being straightforward and loving and caring, you're gonna give people what they need and what they want.

Right. Because if you don't build trust with your patients, Right, then they won't do what you tell them they should do.

Right.

And so it won't. You can't help them, you can't heal them, you can't change what's. What's going on in their lives. You can't make a difference if you don't take the time to build that trust with them. Because, you know, anyone could dole out advice as far as they're concerned, and lots of really bad people do, and that's what they follow. Right. And so it's the trust at the end of the day that you have to build. So that's where I look at this is like whenever you haven't focused on the show itself and the people that are listening and built that trust between you and you maybe go and start taking advertisements or sponsors or whatever, and the sponsors are not in alignment with that. That's a huge mistake. And that's usually where shows fail as well. Their audience starts dropping off because now they feel sold to with things that you shouldn't be bringing to them, because if you use them, then you should be recommending them. But if you don't really use these items, then you shouldn't be recommending them to me, because I I gave my trust to you, and you betrayed it. And so that's where the authenticity and that trust factors, those things play very high. And having that outward focus is really, if you start from the beginning, you're always going to be starting in a better place.

Well, I have learned so much from you just on this short time.

Oh, good.

And if someone wanted to work with you, they want to start a podcast or they have a podcast and they just want to get their voice heard more efficiently, where would they reach you?

Well, so pretty much everywhere. So that's the whole great part about where we are. But, you know, we have. We have potitize.com as our website, so potitize is where all of our services are. But we also have a podcast for podcasters because I don't want to leave anyone behind if they. If they feel that they can't afford us. So we have FeedYourBrand co or Feed your brand podcast, and that's for podcasters. And I do a special feature on there of other podcasters. So when you get up to a certain level and like, you've done like 25 to 50 episodes and you're feeling like you've got some success in. I like to feature podcasters who get above that level. And so I hear from them, what's making you successful? How are you increasing listeners? What are you doing? And I turn that feature, which is called the center of Influence, into a authority magazine column. So I also have a column that I write about that. So it runs full circle. We're always providing value and it's always free. Like, I feel really important that some of this stuff has to be out there for free. Nothing to do with the services. If you're right for my services, you'll know and you will have a conversation. Or if you're. If you've liked what I said, you'll want to have a conversation with me and we'll move forward into finding out if we're a right fit for you. And that's simply how we operate here. We don't push out because you know what? That's not the right thing to do, because that's how you end up with so many people who quit this and aren't doing it for the right reasons and for. For what's best for them and their best business.

Yes. Well, thank you so much. And thank you for all you're contributing to the world, to all the products, and helping people get their voices out, which is like exponentially, you know, wonderful.

And that makes hard to.

When you think about it. When you think about it, every person you help is helping how many people?

Yeah, I know. I was like, you know, that's my. That's my ripples, right? My impact, like, how that works. And that's what drives me every single day to making sure to reach out, to go on other people's podcasts, to make sure that they come on, because I want those ripples to happen. I want your impact out in the world. I want your message to be shared. Mine is a vehicle for that.

Yes. Well, thank you for your ripple and for being on this show, and I wish you luck in your journey as you continue on.

Thank you so much.