Marketing New Products: Whetting The Consumers’ Appetite With Chef Marie-Dominique Rail

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Hey, everyone. Welcome. So excited to be here. The first Marketing Monday mixer of the year. Yay. And I'm doing it solo. Juliet's not here.

Whoa.

What's going on with that? Well, Juliet is at a conference and we're going to do that now and again because I got to tell you, January, February has got it already booked up for the two of us. So there's going to be this occasional back and forth between the two of us where you're only going to get one, but we're going to bring you a great guest. And today I'm so excited to. You know what? It just dawned on me, Chef Marie, that we do we have your new last name. Are you keeping your last name? You just got married.

Yeah.

You saw that? Yes, yes. So I keep my last name, but I would add his also, because now.

You'Re going to have a really long name because it's Marie Dominique Rail Dash. What? Now.

You got a long name now? Well, I love it. Well, but you're known as M. Chef, and we have talked about you a lot on this show. So we're excited to have you be our first guest of the season.

Happy New Year, guys. Happy New Year, Tracy and Juliet as well. I wish you prosperous year with a lot of success, but mostly importantly, inside out peace and love for the continuation.

Oh, I love that. Now you see why we love her food, right? Because it comes from the inside out, I'm telling you. So we've been sharing your recipes and your drinks. We might have been drinking some on the show here occasionally tonight. I'm not starting out with that because it's been a hectic and crazy already season.

I have to share with you a recipe of White Russian. It's so crazy good.

That sounds good.

With vanilla and pepper. So next week. Okay.

We'll put that into a future week here. Oh, White Russian sounds really good. Yes.

My latest discovery. So I can't wait to share that with you.

You know what? And that sounds so wintry too. Like, doesn't it?

It's true.

You got it. Yeah, that's right. Sounds perfect. It would have been Nice to be drinking that over the holiday. So. Okay, well, we'll catch up and we'll get that one.

Or right here.

Yeah, or right here right now. Exactly. So, you know, normally the way we work on this show, Marie, is we just go back and forth. So we just say, you know, like pipe in, talk about different things and usually it's around a subject. And today I thought we'd talk product marketing and consumer brand marketing because you are a consumer brand and you have consumer products. And that's not always that. It doesn't always translate from the way that we market ourselves and our services, like product sales are different. Have you found that?

Absolutely. It's another game, another strategy, and it's in our way in communicating, passing on the message of the new product, of the new evolution of what we wanted to bring out on the market. That is the most challenging way to build up a strategy in marketing.

Yeah. As I think about it, because, I mean, I've probably done consumer products longer than I've done service based businesses. Right. So for me, it feels like the basis for everything. And there is a lot of similarity in that. You got to understand your audience. Like, I think it all starts with that. And with consumer products, it's a lot easier to find your user base because they either use it or they return it.

Absolutely. Did you find that in your experience that you had to really nail it and analyze it just before starting the product instead of doing test and errors?

You don't always know. Right. Like I talk about that on this show a lot. We talk about hypothesis, brand. Right. So we have a hypothesis that this is going to be our audience. So, you know, maybe your hypothesis might be that you're going to get new cooks. Right. Like those that just want to cook, but they didn't have really great role models in their family. Maybe it didn't come down from their mom to how to cook. And that might be your model. Right. And wouldn't that be great if you identified them and said, well, how do I find them? I can't exactly search on Facebook and say, like, people whose moms don't cook. Like, I don't know that that would be the case.

Imagine.

Right. Imagine if we could do that, but it can't because we can't rule out an audience. So we can't say, okay, I think that's my hypothesis is going to be correct. So I need to push it out there. So maybe it's like, oh, people who watch Worst Cooks in America, like, or, you know, a TV show that's like, you know. Oh, because they like this show. I think that might be the right people. Because they didn't have a model. Not my favorite show, mind you.

Too wide.

Yeah. But that gives you an indicator. So they bought this book, like, you know, I remember getting my very first cookbook was like the Betty Crocker Cookbook or whatever it was. Right. I got it like age 12 or something my grandmother gave me. Right. But you get the, you know, so somebody who bought or owned that, you're thinking like, you can't go wrong. Betty Crocker. Right. You know, so like, whatever that is, there might be a model for that.

But what do you do? Do you build up different type of Personas? So different type of clientele and then you test.

Yeah. You know, I mean, with consumer products, it's really hard because you're just pushing it out there. Right. I mean, that's. You just put it out on Amazon or you just put it out on your website and now you have to figure out how to dial it in. And so I always still come back to. I think a content approach helps. So in other words, when you put out your recipes and your blogs and your podcasts, because we're going to talk about that in a minute. So you've got a podcast going. When you're doing that, you're attracting a certain type of person. You're attracting them via your energy, your vibrance, the way you talk about food, the types of food you're talking about. So you're attracting them from those things, but you're also attracting them in a way that you can now start to have a conversation with them because hopefully they're going to sign in, get your email address.

Interaction.

Yeah. If you can't interact, if you can't get them to join your Facebook page or do something, now you can have the conversation to find out were you right? Are they really? Did they have no role models of chefs in their family? Right.

You really nailed it. It's really through interaction. Because what I found with M Chef, the beauty of it is that people were contacting me directly to ask questions about the product or how to use it, but wanted to get that extra satisfaction to speak to the owner, you know, or the chef. It depends on the title they wanted to speak to. But still, you know, yes, you are right. It's to create a personal relationship with the consumer.

Yeah. You know, so that's always hard when you're starting out. Right. I mean, it's a lot easier when you're established already You've got and you're about to bring out a new product, it's a whole lot easier then. And so, you know, that's where I think we bite off more than we can chew. Let's use more food analogies here, right? So we bite off more than we should chew and we go in and we get an entire giant line of products. And sometimes we do it with our services too. Right. We like, we're going to have a course and a book and we have all this stuff going on. And while we want that, eventually, if we dialed in our marketing with one thing first, it might be faster and easier.

But it takes time.

It takes time.

Yes. Extremely patient, you guys. Entrepreneurs, you got to know that you are supported here. We are a big community and we have to stand up and help each other because I think also the entrepreneur community, if we have that, it's an extra because it takes time to have success. It does.

And we get really impatient and we throw things out too quickly because we barely tried it. And then we're like, oh, that didn't work. And we move on to the next thing instead of refining and doing things. And I can't imagine that's how a recipe works, right? I mean, I've been cooking a long time, but you're an expert at it. You refine and you refine and you remake it and you remake it until you get it right, until you get just the right mix of ingredients. And marketing's like that too. It gets rewind over time.

It's so well said what you say. Revisit. Always the same thing. Oh, we're gonna add a little touch of this, a little sparkle of that. Let's spice it up with this thyme, you know? Yeah, it's tough, it's tough.

So I want to check in with you. So you've got a book. It's just out. So what's it called?

It's a Chef Marie lifestyle food guide. And it's 100 recipe of fresh cuisine, but totally gluten free, allergy friendly and also with vegan alternatives. And the main goal of it is to bring a burst of flavors to everyone who wants to enjoy new flavors, but at the same time in a healthy way.

Yeah. So you may not have caught the show, but we've made a few of your recipes over time. And so I went to go make your chewy gooey chocolate chip cookies with my girls and they sounded great. And I was thinking, wow, how wonderful. Like, they sound so healthy even though they're cookies, right? And my girls took one look at the recipe, they're 5 and 10, and then said, where's the sugar, mom? And I went, oh, yeah, okay. So we're not going to make them 100% like the recipe. So we did use the gluten free flour and other stuff like that, but we didn't go all the way. Right. I had to because I was like, these girls are going to like, you know, reject everything. And I was like, that would be bad. We take the time to make it and then they won't eat it. And so we have to compromise sometimes when we're doing things right. So you have to shift.

So what did you do? What did you do? Did you use like swerve or any other type of good.

No, I did end up using actual sugar. So, like I swapped out that. Yeah, I know I swapped out that, but that was it. But you know what, it still came out soft. And that was like. I was still surprised because I was worried they would get crunchier and they wouldn't taste as good. But I went really light on the sugar. Like small, small quantity. Yeah.

So yeah, one thing at a time, you know?

Yeah. But I KE else the same and they didn't notice. So that was a good part. I'm like, I'll move a few ingredients on them at a time. You know, the big mistake was cooking with them. Like if I just made it and given it to them, they would have eaten it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, but I like to cook with my daughters because I think that's really great and traditional.

Right. Doing that.

Yes.

It's super important that little children know how to cook.

So it's like mom girl time or sugar? Like it was a.

But it's with time. It's just that I tried to bring drastic alternatives for the people who have food allergies and intolerances, you know, bringing flavors, but at the same time compromise on these bad sweets.

The bad sweets. I know.

Yeah.

Well, you know, and that's the thing. So now, have you gone out and marketed the book? Have you found like the right audience yet?

Not yet.

Not yet.

Not yet. Because I am a small company and you know, I hire some consultants, but it's not really the best way. I think that I really have to dig into my way in working with maybe a part time or somebody who's going to be part of m chef. So you will really spend hours into the development of the business. So working with consultants, sometimes it's good. Sometimes it's a, you know, you try and it doesn't get long. So we really have to focus on the right strategy. And within the time, I will nail the audience. But I still didn't find it right.

So what's been your marketing strategy? Like, have you gone through, Are you doing a Facebook strategy, you're doing an Amazon strategy? What are you starting with for your book?

Okay, so because I was very short with my finance to be able to print this book, I went with Amazon and it allowed me to present a Kindle version and a hard copy version. And it was totally affordable for a small company like me. So I did it and went on canva.com to build up the PDF for the book. That's how I could do it. And then I said, well, now that I'm on Kindle, what do I do? Well, Amazon proposed in advertising. So I went there, put a little $100 per month to be able to advertise on their platform, then use this to showcase the book on the website, link to Facebook, link to Instagram and Pinterest. Guys, Pinterest is really important.

Oh, it's really important. Especially with food.

Absolutely. You know what, Lucy, I think that you have been the one who talked to me about Pinterest when I met you the first time last spring. So I thank you for that.

Yeah. So there's a really good friend, marketing, brand marketing person. Her name is Karen Leland and she's amazing. She's really top level. She does a lot of these big brands. And I remember she did this presentation really early on, maybe the first time I met her. And it's what caught my eye and it's what I've always kept in the back of my mind is how valuable Pinterest can be. And what she said was she had done this product. I don't even remember what the product was. It was some women's product, but it had gotten on the Today show. So she had helped get them get on the Today show, which was like a big deal. Like, it was one of those featured products. But within a couple of weeks, it also went and trended on Pinterest with like, somebody had pinned it, like Ray pinned it. Who was. They sold more product because of the Pinterest pin than they did from the Today Show. And I always think about that and say, but that costs them nothing. Like no time, no energy. It didn't cost them a PR firm. The Pinterest was an inexpensive way for them to do that. And so I agree. But with food products, with consumer products, Pinterest is an amazing place that people overlook. And they even have viable pins and other things. Like they've made it even more streamlined now.

Yes. And always link to your website and your recipes so it's the picture, but with content. Always. So there's a commitment to put on social media every day.

Yeah. And I can imagine Instagram's doing really well for you too, I would imagine, because that seems to do very well with your target audience. Yeah. It should be going up. Right.

I have a lot of Indian partners too, because I am in the spice business and mostly of the spices that I take. The trustability is coming from India. So I have lots a big community of Indian people in my Instagram.

Nice.

And we didn't talk about something, Tracy. We didn't talk about YouTube. What is it for you with your business also and consumer business?

YouTube. Well, especially because, I mean, what you're doing is you're demoing while you're talking and that you can't get a better how to than YouTube. Right. And so I think that that's a really great place for you. And this is where you start to think about where does someone want to learn that demographic we were talking about, like, who is that target? And like, they want to learn. That's the point of where they're going to find you. They want to learn. What can they do now that they're on this diet or they got these ingredients or they got this diagnosis, you know, what are they going to do with it? I'm going to start Googling. I'm going to start YouTubing. I'm going to start asking my friends on Instagram. I'm going to start looking at pins for recipes. Right. Or I'm going to start thinking about ingredients and thinking about these things. Like, that's the way that the process, the brain process works. So that is no different. It doesn't matter whether you're how to or learning something. It doesn't matter whether it's a service business or a product business. That process is still the same how somebody goes about looking for something, how they start thinking about finding information that's still the same every which way. But we don't think in big brand and that's where we make a mistake. I think your M Chef is a fantastic brand and I want it to be there because it needs the credibility, it needs the beauty. Your packages are gorgeous, right? Yeah. You know, all of that is really beautiful and it's. And your website, I love it. Guys, go to our website. It's m chef.com. it's got this like burst of color. Right? Like it does, it has a, like it has an animation right on the front and it's a lot of fun and it shows off your personality and it's a really eye catching website. And so you know that in and of itself, all that's important there. But at the end of the day, if they're not coming back to your website, they're not finding you, then what's the point? So we've got to start where they are, where are we going to find them? And that is an important part about product. Now are you finding good Amazon sales of your spices and stuff or are you finding people? More people are just buying straight over your website because you sent them there from your social media.

I think that we have to do both. So at this point you do Amazon advertising for the product itself, but you also have to create, I think also have to create advertisement on social media. Even though it's gonna create traffic, but not necessarily conversions, it's still good because people are curious and they're gonna go see it. It'd be kind of like what they see, what they may buy or refer to a friend that may buy. So because it's a niche product, we forgot to talk about it. A niche product is.

It's harder because you've got like one ingredient to the whole thing, right? Yeah, it's harder. It is true. What you've got going is a lot harder, but it's also taste based. Right. So this is another problem with food. Food products in general are really tough.

We have to run and knock at.

The door of people, please taste it.

And we cannot give money or incentives. Like we have to really try to have the honest way of getting a testimonial back. And this is tough. This is a challenge for retail.

Yeah. But you know, in a way that's why it's so critical what you're doing with your content creation with your podcast. So let's talk about that. It's called burst of flavors. Right.

Because of you.

Burst of flavors. Thank you. I'm so proud of your podcast. And so what I love is going on with that is you're doing all the content so that you're able to hit all of those social media, you're able to hit YouTube, Instagram, you're able to deliver all this content to all those places and have something to talk about each week. Right. Something to talk about every time you produce a new show. And it gives you recipes and other things that you talk about or ingredients you talk about, you can talk about your spices, you can make them taste it and feel it, but you're building a relationship with them. And that's really where, especially early on in production, if you're not building a relationship, then they aren't going to give you a chance. They don't know, should I trust her? You know, she might have different tastes than me. She doesn't sound like she comes from, you know, Midwest America or whatever. So will I like it? You know, like there's that doubt that goes off in people's minds when they're buying a consumer product. Now granted, your spices are not expensive, so it's a pretty low, I mean, some people's products are expensive and that makes it harder for them to try you. So you at least have a low cost buy where it doesn't feel like it's, you know, anything under $10. I don't feel like I was like, it's worth a try. Like most people will cave and do that. What they won't necessarily do though, and that's why I think it's really smart. What you said about having it on Amazon and on your website as well is that sometimes I don't want to enter in my credit card to a brand new website that I don't know. I don't trust this person yet. But I have a relationship with Amazon that goes, you know, mine's from 1998. I say that again and again. I've been buying products from Amazon since 1998. So when you look at like how long I've been, I'm like, I have a better relationship with Amazon than I do with most people. Right?

Yeah. So for me to just go buy something quickly for 10 bucks or less there is much easier and simple and streamlined. So I'm more likely so having just that option, but having the credibility though. Oh, she's a big enough brand to be on Amazon. Like those two things go hand in hand. So I think that's where you're helping yourself too. But it's tough when people can't taste it. So that relationship, if I just get excited by you, I'm more likely to really want to taste that.

Right.

You've got me all like salivating over what's going to, you know, White Russian. That sounds so good, like right now, you know, and if you can just do that with just a small conversation, wow, that is going to make the difference in building your brand. And it still takes time though, like you said.

But I have to say, yeah, you said time. I have to say it's been 10 years that I am on this mission. So that's why the price is low. It's because I want to give the chance to people to enjoy flavors back. My number one rule, no more plain food. I mean, that's fine. Even though you're allergic or you have intolerances, please enjoy good spices because it's really the star of all recipes, you know, and it takes time. So, yes, I'm on a mission, you know, and the Burst of Flavors, that new podcast, what I wanted to do with it, that was so important is to be able to put in front of the audience a person that will talk and relate to everyday lifestyle balance. And then we started the podcast this way to really open up to our audience. But we are this year the goal with M Chef, Burst of Flavors podcast is really going to go slowly and talk only about nutrition and healthy habits. Let's do it with everyone, you know?

Yeah, I love that. And it's the perfect time of year. There isn't a better time of year than January to start talking about healthy habits, right? So, like, here's a time where you want to hit the ground running with good podcasts, with promos, with good social posts. You want to hit people at the time at which they're thinking about this the most, right? And we're all thinking about, like, this is 2020. I want to get healthy, I want to get vision and I want to get clarity. I want to cleanse my body. Like, I've heard that one already multiple times on Facebook. Right?

It's the best time of the year. Weight Watchers is rising right now in the stock market.

Well, you know what was really, I was shocked at some of the ads that you're coming out in the health industry. And so, like, there was Rob Lowe would just did a whole series of ads for Atkins and he was talking about how everything is free on their website. Like, he specifically said, all this stuff is free, all the information. Now you don't have to buy Atkins products. I was like, I think most people didn't realize that. I guarantee you they were like, oh, wow. And Weight Watchers has their new customizable app. Like, everybody's out there, like, working on it. And if you look really closely, each one of those things is a content generating piece. Like, it's constant pushing information to people.

So let's do it too.

Yeah. So you should be doing it too.

The big ones are doing it so the small ones will find their ways too. Yeah.

Now you've been selling your Spices for how long?

It's been five years now.

Yeah, five years. Okay. And where have you found the most traction with selling spices? Like what gets you.

Okay, So I didn't start retail. I started in the food service since I was working in the restaurant business so it was easier to get access to chefs. And because the product is so different and unique, because it's allergy, because it's filler free, because it's also low in sodium and the product is really, really clean, I wanted to nail the market and the food service first because we were not really necessarily ready to promote it retail. With the marketing and with the trend, we had to wait a little bit. We were a little bit too in advance in our time.

I think you were.

But it can cause issues too, because we have to wait to get into the flow and surf on the wave, you know, so it took us a little bit of time. This is the first year where I realized the dream of putting this product m shift on the retail market. So it's brand new. I have a little bit of difficulty to tell you who is my clientele yet. The only thing that I know is that families are buying it. So families, who are they? Is it the mama or the papa who's cooking? The children at home are cooking too. I don't know yet. I'm still investigating the market.

You're still investigating? Well, I can tell you here's the one thing that I know from doing consumer products. Women control or buy all products at mass market at consumer products. So it's 86% or more of retail is bought or controlled by women. So whether they're buying for. We're good, huh? Yeah. Whether they're buying because their kids need to be gluten free or, you know, they had the celiac diagnosis, whatever it might be.

Self awareness.

Yeah. It's starting with the mom, the grandmother. It starts with the women in the family. And it's still that way. Like it's crazy statistics, but it's still that way. That, that, that there is very little of the market that has been eroded by Internet. Like it hasn't changed since the Internet came on and has, you know, changed our buying habits. It's still the case.

We're great consumers. We read everything.

I joke about this, but it's really not a joke. It's actually really serious, scientific. Women are better at scoping out and searching for things. We are genetically encoded to be able to do that. Our brains work that way, our eyes work that way. We filter an environment better than men. Do. And you know, it sounds really sexist.

But we're not really surprised, right?

But we're not really surprised as women. We go, yeah, of course we are, of course we're better at that, right? But it has to do with the part of that we're always searching, we're always thinking, we have that multi level thing going on. We're always searching for things. So it'll happen to me. It'll be like, I'll sit down and I'll place all my holiday orders, like, you know, the week before Thanksgiving or something, I'll start to place all my orders on Amazon. I'll do that. My husband's like, how do you know what to buy, everybody? I was like, did you just think all this up right now? I go, no, I've probably been thinking about it for nine months. And I know in my head what I was going to buy because I've been thinking about what does your mom want? What does our kids want? What, you know, And I have all of that. And now all I'm just doing is now I'm executing, right? So we have a pattern, people have a pattern of shopping like that. And when we did studies of how women's eyes search through an entire retail store, how they look at shelves, how they do all of these things, it's fascinating how different it is from men to women. And so I've got some books, you know what, I've got some books I have always relied on that I really think are great books. I will pull their titles and I will drop them in the blog post and I will also drop them in the Facebook page. So for those of you who are just following this on a watch party or something like that, we have a Facebook page and group called Marketing Monday Mixer. And so definitely join that. And all of the links will be in there because I'll put it in the one main, the one main one. Because there's always all these extra shares and views of our videos here. So I never know which one I'm commenting on.

Thank you. We want to see that.

Yeah. But it hasn't changed since we've gone online. We still search and sort out the same way. Now we've been conditioned to learn to type in things like keywords and you know, search in a different way from an analytical perspective. But the way we view a page and the way we view things hasn't changed at all. And that I think is really so interesting. So at the end of the day, a consumer product should be marketed to women first. Like it's just if you're gonna. You might as well not look at it like it's a niche market, Right? You might as well just say, I'm going for the moms in the family or the women in the family, because you're more likely to be right at that point. And while it might be a fun edge to get single dads, right, you might as well go for the bigger market initially out of the gate. And then if you find out that in your audience single dads are buying it, then you go, how did they find me and what do I do better to get those single dads going so they can. They can look like the chef heroes in their family, because they should be too, right?

Yeah, but who are the chef usually in the kitchen, it's the woman, you know.

Well, yeah, but that's so funny, though, because I think about that, and you worked in the food service industry. So many chefs out there are men, like, famous chefs. Like, how did it happen that they're just the random ones that were cooking in their families or got the training?

It's so true. This is another business. But there are more and more women in the kitchen. And before, back in the days, like in 2000, I saw more women in the pastry divisions because I was in the kitchen, you know, I was stuck, you know, with men trying to, you know, I wanted to get other higher positions. It took me 10 years to become an executive chef for a man. Back then it was six to seven years, so we had to run a little bit more. But now I see more women in the kitchen because I get to continue to sell two chefs, and I am proud to see that we are there. Oh, yeah, woman. We are in the big, big kitchen in the high five star restaurants. And thank you, girls. Continue to work so hard because this is such a tough business.

It's tough. You're in a tough business selling products and selling something that has taste, something that has so many issues with, like, you know, different ingredients. Right. Different flavors, different tastes. Like, this is a hard thing, what you're doing. This is not an easy thing to market. You've taken on a challenge, but you've taken it on with such energy and such excitement. And that's what I love. And so I want everyone to check out burst of flavors. Check out m chef.com. it's so good.

It's the joy every day to eat. You know, we run to eat.

This comes across in your marketing, right? And that's what you have to do is find a media, find a Type of thing where that can come across, because, you know, when you put a package together, it's not going to come across. Right. No matter how beautiful your box is, no matter how beautiful your package is, it's static. It doesn't have the energy that you have. And so making sure that you work all those modes of marketing together.

Thank you so much. I get what you say. What I want to bring is in, Chef, is it's the product inside that is extremely delicious. And so I have to bring it from inside this passion and this joy so people can reflect on what they eat.

At the end of the day, it's also education, right? Because you're educating people on. I mean, I didn't know that before I met you that there were lots of fillers in spices. I didn't know that. And so I was like, whoa, no wonder that's. So what do we buy? Right? Like, what am I buying? Like, now I got to think about this.

Are we really buying fillers? 80% of it, yeah.

You know, I mean, it didn't dawn on me, but, yeah, that sounds about right. Like, compared to every other food product and every other beauty product, they're all fillers. And so beauty products are the worst, right? Yes, I know. All fillers, let me tell you. And it doesn't fill the gaps. Right. It's not filling in the lines. Whatever it is, we buy this product.

After two years, you still see that wrinkle, you know?

Yeah. It's not doing what it's supposed to. It's not that type of filler. But, you know, so we look at that like, you have an education, and when you have to educate people, you've got to have a longer conversation. Right. There's a reason you go to Costco, right, Marie?

For sure.

Yeah. Who does?

I love the cheese department, too.

Yeah, I love.

You love it. And the cold cuts and everything.

Okay, now I'm really hungry now. I gotta go have some dinner. So when you go into Costco, there's a reason that those people are doing demos. They're doing demos because it works.

Do you eat?

I don't personally, but I do watch them.

Like, do you eat when it is. When you cross.

I'm kind of a specific eater. Like, I don't like to eat between meals and stuff like that. So, I mean, that's kind of my thing.

How come you don't eat? Right.

You should also eat before you go to the grocery store. Like, I learned that from my mother early on, so I'm always like, oh, I'M not hungry because I'm full.

Right.

Eat something before you walk in there.

That's a good habit.

Yeah, but I like to watch them.

Right.

Don't you like to watch them? Because that's a point at where something that they say in that fast amount of time that they're talking and they talk fast. Right. They're gonna say something that is going to resonate with you, and that's their goal. Because whatever they're selling has a difficult learning curve or a definite educational curve to understand why you should buy a Ninja Mix versus whatever blender you already have.

Right.

You know, so the Nutri Bullet. Right, exactly. But so it's not just demoing it. That is the important part is that they're saying stuff while you're walking by that resonates with you. And so it's a way of capturing attention. Now, the reason it works so well is because they know the Costco client base because they're narrow and specific. This is why I've been more successful selling products into the consumer market, because I don't have to reinvent where they are. Like, I know it's going to be a Costco client who's going to buy my chair or buy my. Whatever I've designed for them in Costco because they know what. Who their members are. They know details about them. They know they're. They know they shop together as a couple. Like, they make decisions. Like, they know a lot about how people shop through their store. Costco is one of the very few places where you get couples shopping.

See, I didn't know that at all. This I'm learning from you.

Pretty cool, huh? So. So it's a perfect place for you to get.

I think we have to talk furthermore, about Costco.

Right. So thinking about that, like, men's razors, like, they sell a ton of men's razors through Costco as opposed to other outlets. Because that's the one place where a guy will stop and then whoever's with him, his, his wife or his girlfriend will stop and they'll have a chat about it, and they'll just talk about it, and then he'll buy it, but he won't buy it without her. Kind of like say.

So the woman have a say.

They have a lot of control. Right.

I love that.

Yeah. So, you know, there's a big, big difference in that is Costco is very different than other places because it's not an in and out kind of place. Right. You go there, it's an event. You're Going to be there a couple of hours. You will spend a couple hundred dollars, right?

Like it's the activity of the day.

There's a joke about New York City is like a single in New york is a $20 bill. So like you, you will walk out and if you want to spend a dollar, it's actually 20 in New York. Well, I always joke that that's your minimum entry price for walking into Costco is $200. Like that's your average.

Yeah, for sure. Oh, my God. That's for sure. It's a hundred and more.

Exactly. So when you know that, though, it makes it easier to be right about your audience, because you know a lot about them. They're slightly more affluent. They paid for a membership. They come in frequently. They shop at least once every four to six weeks. They buy in bulk. They come together, they fill an entire cart. They spend $200. Like there's a whole bunch of pieces of information about how they. So that now you can design a product that fits that model. You can bring products together that they'll be more attracted to, and you don't have to educate them as much.

So that's why when we've met last year and we were talking about working together on a project, that's why you came to talk to me about the gift package, like, say, or say, for a small company like me who has small products, we can assemble and build up, display and present that to Costco. One product itself. That's what you are bringing here today. So everybody listen.

You got to market products as a group because while 10 bucks, like I said before, anything under 10 bucks is a great easy buy. If I want to try something, taste something, get a sense of how good your quality ingredients are and get a sense of you, I want to have an ability to test something. That's why tester sizes do really well in beauty products, like that kind of thing, right? Testing something. So having a small price point for that, but when you come to the end of the day, it's either going to be something I want to give as a gift. I want to group things together and I want to give them as a gift. And it's usually like a $50 right below, you know, $50, you want to be all in at $50 with tax kind of thing. So like right below that, you can get in at $50. So I don't spend more than 50 bucks to give a really nice gift. I mean, this isn't like, you know, cheap, cheesy gifts, guys.

We know that Tracy said it under.

50, 50 bucks, right? Like 40 to 50 bucks. That's where I want to spend. That's my sweet spot of gift giving. That's for most products of most. Most people be right around there. And then if I'm going to really take it seriously, like, I really need to buy, because like we said, we just had a change in diet. Everything happened in our family. I'm going to go through and I'm going to buy a bunch of things, but I'm going to go and buy them from the person I trust in the brand I trust the most. I'm going to start there. So that takes a lot of time, you know, over time, to build up that level where I'm just going to be like, okay, I know I have an issue. I'm going straight to M Chef. That's it. I know where to go. That's a little different level. You got to come through that. So we have to rely on Amazon, Costco, on those kind of people to brand position us as the people to go to as the brand that's positioned there. That's why we rely on those bigger boxes to get in there, because it is. But you have to walk before you run, right? You gotta be distributing. You gotta be.

Yes, yes, yes. Build credibility first, you know, with specialties stores, small stores. And then when we are in a better financial situation, then we can nail this market. But it takes time. You need the brand recognition, right?

Yes. And yeah, for anyone to think like Walmart, sale of your product happens overnight, that's ridiculous. First off, it will tank you. Like I've seen it happen. It will tank you. Oh, yeah. So that is not the way to go. You want to take your baby steps. You want to walk before you run. You want to do all of that and get to where you go.

Do we have time to talk about this?

Yeah, sure. Quickly.

All these big chains, you know, they want to work with small brands who are rising. But at the same time, what do you think about that? Because they are taking so much margin. So much.

Yeah. If you don't have 70% margins available, so that means like 70% for them to take and add to it. So you're making 30%. Like, that's pretty low.

You really nail it. Yeah, it's really dirty.

It is. Yeah. It's really 30 at the end of the day that you'll make from it. So if you don't have that kind of ability and flexibility in your cost, that is not the way to start. It's definitely not the way to go. But the other problem with starting with a big mass market is that it will crush you. If you have a mistake. Like let's say you had a bad ingredient, a bad. Something went wrong, you will never get in again. You will be crushed out. It will be like, never happen. No one will ever buy your product. You are done in business. You can't make a mistake. My daughter's sick. I was trying to open a packaging and had like safety seals and like all kinds of stuff on some medicine here. And it all happened because there was the Tylenol scare in the 80s or 90s, I think it was, and there was this big scare of contaminated Tylenol. A brand like Tylenol can survive because they went through that. They're everywhere. They have big brand. It was an isolated error. I mean, it was an isolated incident. It was also sabotage, I believe, you know, so like something happened to them, you know, that was outside their control. So, like all of that and you look at that, they can survive that you cannot. As a small brand, you will be doubt of business.

Small, medium companies.

Yeah, medium, exactly. I'd say anyone, I look at it as anyone who's under a hundred million dollars in mass market sales will be crushed. Like, I've seen it happen. I know companies I've worked with. If you are under a hundred million dollars in sales in the mass market, you have more than 30% of your sales at any one given store. So if you had like 50% of your sales was at Walmart, you're in trouble. You're in trouble.

Yes.

Because they can, overnight, a buyer can change and they can decide, oh, I don't like that product, and you're gone.

So it's to lower expectations. Also, as an entrepreneur, even though we are visionaries and really want to succeed, we really have to start small.

You have to take your steps. You do, because you've got to build up infrastructure, you've got to build up the systems, you've got to build up the product. Brand acceptance in the marketplace, all of those reviews and ratings and all that stuff comes over time. The really true organic ones, there's all these gimmicks and stuff, but they do not last. They get removed, they don't help you. It's not going to change anything. At the end of the day, it's no different than the old style. We had to go from store to store to store and build relationships with each of the merchants. Right? Yes, we're doing that now. Right. We're building up relationships. Maybe with publications or those that control a Facebook group that are dealing with gluten free. That's the relationships you need to start building in your marketing is building relationships with those that have the influence.

I will. I will do that. And I want to say something about the challenge of rising as a small business is really watch out over the logistic in the supply chain. Because I went through a lot with this in the past five years and I really needed to choose the partners with whom I was going to work, you know, for co packing and for storage and for carrier. So this, I think it's a mine of gold if the team is set for success.

Well, and so often entrepreneurs are like, oh, we'll figure out this stuff after we start selling it. Right. But with certain products, especially food and anything with chemicals in it, anything, beauty products, you do need to figure those things out first.

Oh, super important, guys. Yeah.

I'm so glad you said that.

Thank you, Tracy, for all the information. It's gonna take me some days to digest information.

That's why we have the video in the Facebook group. You can watch it again.

Amazing. Thank you for the advices of gold that you are giving us every week. And with Juliet as well, Juliette, we are missing her today, but she's with us.

Yeah, she's got her own thing she's working on today, which is good because she's got to keep her business going. So she's out there marketing at an event today, which is really great. So I'm going to just peek really quickly at the schedule because I'm forgetting who is next week because Juliet is going to do that on her own because I am out of town next week. And so I've got to remember who our marketing Monday mixer is for next week. But as always, we have moved the time up for those of you who were like, why are they going live already? We moved the time up an hour for the new year. And so for all of this year, we were going to be at 4pm Pacific Time, 5pm Mountain Time, which is Juliet's time zone. I totally screwed it up, which is why it took so long to get the graphics and so. Oh, next week. Oh, that's really cool. I forgot. Scott Carson is coming on and Scott Carson is talking about mass media marketing. So we've been talking about mass media, mass market products. We're good. He's going to talk about mass media marketing and so next week. So Scott Carson is next week. Yeah. So he'll be back here talking with Juliet next week. So that's Next week's Monday. So we've got lots of exciting things. Jim beach is going to come and talk to us about radio marketing later in this month. And then Juliet and I are going to finally get together because we miss talking about serving versus selling. And so we're going to talk about that because we had a whole Facebook fiasco at some point in November where we couldn't get that episode to go live. So we're going to do it. We're going to do it in end of January. So we'll come back. We'll finally be back together, Juliet and I, at the end of the month to talk about that.

We have to learn about this.

I know.

I have a big question mark on this. That's super cool.

Because you know what? As you pointed out so often today, entrepreneurs need to start grouping together and start talking about this, because there are some people out there telling you that you need to serve and serve and serve and serve. And so you're giving away everything for free, and you're never getting to the point of selling. I used to. Yeah, I know. I thought you might resemble that remark.

Right. So we've got to find that balance between doing both. Because it's okay to sell, right?

We earn the right to sell. It's really. We have to make a living, you know, bread and butter. At the end of the day, you.

Have to earn the right. But once you've earned that right by giving away content, by doing some of the things that you're doing, by being honest and authentic and everything. So that's what we'll be talking about at the end of the month. So, yeah, we'll look forward to touching base with you, and we'll get that white Russian recipe in. So looking forward to it.

I can't wait to try it.

I know. I can't wait to either. So thank you for that.

It's so good. It's like a dessert, you know, with a little bit of. A little chocolate on the side.

Now you. Now you totally have me chocolates involved. Right? There you go. My chocolate.

It's rare.

That's right. Well, Chef Marie. Marie M. Chef, thank you so much for being here today. I am so glad we could do marketing under mixer with you. And we appreciate all you've done to help us. Give us great recipes and stuff for the last couple of months that we've been doing this, and we'll continue that up and bring some more of your recipes forward.

Thank you for what you are bringing to all of us. You know, we're learning so much from you. You are beautiful inside out. And I really, I'm doing a special mention of thank you to Julie and Eric Christopher, because it's because of them if I've met you. And I'm so happy that you are part of my life as a guide and a mentor. So thanks. Okay, cheers.

Thank you so much. Okay, everyone, we'll be back next Monday.

You've been listening to the Feed you'd Brand podcast. We'd love to hear your comments on today's show, as well as suggestions for future topics and guests. Visit us online at FeedYourBrand Co or on social edyourbrand. Thanks for exploring content marketing and podcast influence with us.