Maximizing Your Podcast's Reach: The Power Of Directory Listings And Promotion

Want your podcast and videocast to be seen, heard, found and rewarded in this noisy digital world, you are not alone. Join the nonprofit community at Podcasters United and podcast industry experts Tom Hazard and Tracy Hazard as they debunk all that outdated and bad advice you've been getting from the podcast gurus and find out what actually works. Today, get ready to finish feed your brand with smart cut tactics proven to cast your original voice to the world.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Feed you'd band. I'm Tom Hazard along with my co host and better half, Tracy Hazard. Today we're going to talk about maximizing your podcast reach. A Great theme for 2024 Power of Directory listings and promotion. So this is really important. There are lists out there on the Internet in pretty much every category of podcasting. Isn't that right, Tracy?

Yeah, there is. I mean, there's lists for the best health and wellness podcast, the best fitness podcast. The best can be micro. It can be the best podcast on podcasting, right? There's lists out there for that. The top podcasts in this, they're best of top. But you want to go into the micro categories. It matters in the micro categories because that's what people are looking up. Because I don't want to know the best podcasts out there because that's too general. And then the same five are going to show up every time. The ones that are all, like, paid for by big networks. So a real podcast listener doesn't. Doesn't do that. They go into the micro categories they're looking for.

So I want to help frame people's minds about this because I can already hear the skeptics. I can hear the doubt and skepticism among many of your listeners and or viewers, which is that, well, there's so many podcasts out there. How is mine going to make one of these lists? And I was serious when I said there's a list out there for everything. And I'm going to give you sort of an analogy for this that I think everyone can relate to. Anyone who's watched television in the last, you know, 20 years, at least, okay? You always see or. And you see it more because now so much is streaming, but especially when we were all in the theaters pre Covid watching movies, right? On television, there are always these ads for the latest movie, and it always seems like every movie is the best, the greatest, this or that. There's always now. So listen to this. The best movie of the year, the best film of the year, the best cinematic experience of the year. I mean, the writers who create these things, come up with different ways for every movie to be the best of something to get you to think it's the best and you need to go out to the theater. Well, there's similar things that happen with these lists and podcasts. It's not categories as one way, but I think there are many other lists out there of podcasts and opportunities to get yours listed. And the thing is, most people just don't ask, right, Tracy?

They don't. They really don't ask to be on the list. They don't ask to update the list, they don't ask that and their lists being made out there. Most of these lists are being made by publicists. I want to be really clear with like this. So if you really want to do this and you just really want help with this, go hire a publicist. That's the number one rule. Because publicists know that this is a great way for you to get into circulation there. And it's an easy ask for them to do this because a lot of times you write and submit it. That is a tactic to write and submit your own. But you can't be on the list if you write and submit your own list. So you have to think that through. Who are you going to hire? Who are you going to, who's going to help you? Who's going to be the author that can write and put you on the list?

But isn't there another tactic about tapping into an existing list, Tracy?

That's my favorite one and that's the one I really want to focus most on today. But I just want you to understand how the nuances of it work. So the idea is that somebody did go out there and write a list and they may already be a blogger. And this is important to understand who wrote the list. If it's a list on somebody's website, if it's a list in a publication, two different author types. If you have someone who is a contributing author and contributes regularly to CIO magazine, for instance, that and they contribute regularly and they happen to write a top podcast list, then definitely contact them. But if you can see it was kind of a one time thing. They don't really have a lot of stuff or everything that they do seems to be focused on the same set of clients, then you, you know that that's a publicist who's done that. So go check them out, make sure you check out their bio. That's maybe the publicist you want to reach out to. That may be the one you want to hire. Because obviously they use it in their strategy. It's not going to work to get an update done on it if they're a publicist, because they do it for hire. But if it's a columnist or a contributor who already has a popular article, that's something different. And that's what I'm going to talk about here for most of what we're going to say today.

I like this tactic a lot. It's really pretty brilliant. It will take a little bit of legwork, but not that difficult for do it yourselfers.

Right? So let's say you type in best podcast on podcasting and a bunch of articles come up. A bunch of lists come up.

Listicles, sometimes they call them. Right?

Yep, Listicles. Exactly that. Listicles come up and you think, okay, oh, that's a good publication. I want to be a part of TechCrunch or I want to be a part of Entrepreneur. Right? How can I get in that? So there's a popular article, but that's from 2022. It's two years old, and yet it's ranking on the first page of Google for best podcast on podcasting. Sounds great, right? So we should reach out to that writer and say, hey, have you thought about updating this listicle? It's very popular. If you updated it for 2024. If it's in their blog, it's easier. If it's in a publication, it's a little harder because they have to get the publication to agree. So these are the two areas where you've got to think this through. Blogs are way easier for you to update. But if it's showing up at the first page of Google, it doesn't really matter if it's on somebody's website or it's on a main author page, because its purpose isn't to add a logo to your website. Its purpose is to make an actual list for people who are out there searching for something. Right? Searching for a new podcast. So we want to hit those lists and we want to hit on the list. So when they come back to you and they say, yes, and say, oh, well, here I have an update for you. I've done all the work. This is the part that you must do. You can't just pitch someone and say, update the list and add me to it. Instead, you go through the list and let's say the list had 20 podcasts on it. I guarantee you that 50% of them will be gone two years later, right? This is 2022 to 2024. Two years later. 50% of them will easily be gone, could be even more, but 50% of them will be gone.

Or either they're gone and no longer exist or they stopped publishing a year ago or more. So they're no longer a current active podcast. Right?

Right. And that's embarrassing to the writer. So this is a great inroad for you to make the introduction. So when you're writing that and asking them if they'd like to update, you should tell them how many have POD faded. So I noticed you have this great article. You rank on the first page of Google good, obviously an expert in finance and you've written this best of list on finance podcasts, but did you know that 10 of your 20 are outdated, no longer publishing and some of them haven't even published an episode in two years. Would you like some assistance? I can give you 10 new podcasts if you'd be willing to include mine in your list as well.

You do the work for them, right?

Right. So then you let them respond back, don't give them the list yet. You let them respond back, say yeah, I'd love help with that. Then you give them formatted exactly like it already is in the article. So all they have to do is plug in the ones that are missing and this one's missing, I think you should include this one instead. This one's missing or this one's POD faded and you should include this one instead and you give them the image, the COVID art image and the description or whatever they included in the way that they listed it in their listicle. Sometimes it might just simply be a text link, the name of the show and a text link. Give them whatever it is that looks like their original article so they don't have to do any more work.

Copy and paste.

Right, copy and paste. And so you give them the ones that they're removing and you give them the new ones plus yours and you give them some more details on yours obviously, because you want them to be a little generous. Maybe they'll update their opening paragraph because that's something that they should do when you update it, you're going to mention somewhere the writer should write that, where they're going to mention that this is now updated for 2024. And wow, thank you so and so for helping me with this list. And they give you another shout out. That would be really nice if they did that. They may not, but it doesn't matter because you've already set up the success for them and given them hand wrapped it, ready to go for Them to really update this really quickly. That's an easy win for them. There's no reason for them not to. A blogger especially is looking for new content at all times. A columnist or a contributor also has sometimes a requirement of how many they're supposed to do per month. A columnist does. When I wrote for Inc. Magazine, I had a requirement of hitting six articles per month. And last week of the month was the week that I would be like, desperately looking for some new things. So it's a strategy also to hit them in the last week of the month with an easy update to an article, fast article that they've written. So if you've got somebody and you're trying to do a publication, suggest that. Because editors actually do love this. They. I mean, look it. Who doesn't love a sequel? It's kind of me. It works the first time, so it should work again. Like, that's the mental model of all editors out there.

I think that's brilliant. Yeah. Updating it for 2024. I mean, they could even if they wanted to. I mean, there's several different techniques about this. And you could edit the existing article because it's already ranking well, or you could create a new one that's for 2024, and it's republishing half that list, but the new list, and it links back to the old one. Or maybe it just lists the 10 new ones and links back to the old one. I mean, there are many different techniques. There's not really only one way to do this, but you're going to breathe new life into it. And again, as Tracy suggested, help them out and make it easy for them to produce more content.

All right, so let's talk about where you rank on that list. It is very obnoxious and presumptuous of you to suggest that you belong on number one. You better have a really darn good reason for it, because I likely, as a writer, will go obnoxious, not including him. I probably still will rewrite that article, but I definitely won't include your show at that point. So you just gave me a great idea, but I'm like, I'm not listening to that ego. So writers have their own ego. They have their own authority level. They have their own mission. They're not there to serve you. So you need to give them something that makes it a value to them, make it easy for them. But if you want the law of reciprocity to kick in here, then don't be pushy about it. So what I suggest you do is say, hey, if you're trying to decide where to rank shows, here's the chart. You could show them an example. The chart. Here's where these shows rank or here's where this show has a hundred episodes and this one has a thousand. Like, so you could give it by episode numbers. You could give them some ideas about where you go based on something that's flattering and obviously a benefit to you. Our 3D print show, 650 episodes. I think we still have the longest and largest catalog and we haven't published in three years. So there's always a way to spin it that puts you in a favorable position up towards the top, but it lets it be their decision where to place you. And I guarantee you, if you're like a lot of people, if you decided, okay, I'm not going to be obnoxious and I'm not going to be pushy, I'm not going to put myself at number one, you will put yourself lower on the list than the writer will because that's. It's like think about any self evaluation you do out there. You always end up downgrading yourself more than your boss will. It just happens that way. Always.

Best 3D printing podcast for binge listeners. That would be right, because you got 650 episodes right.

It has nothing to do with being current. Right. So this is also a way to discover this. You can always spin it, suggest a new title or an update to the title that favors you. And then when you give them the list, they decide where you go. But you've given them the deck data, like how many episodes each show has, that's really good and valuable information. So thinking about those things, about how you want to position it, but also making it the writer feel like they're in control because that's critically important to you actually getting more out of it. So now the flip side of that is, let's say you just don't want to give anyone else control. You're really the authority in the industry. So I was the authority on innovation. I wrote a column for Inc. Magazine. I was the authority for innovation. I wrote article for Inc. Magazine on the best innovation podcasts. Well, I couldn't really plug my show. It would be against the whole policy. I'm not allowed to plug my own business as a columnist writer, not allowed to do it. I can have it in my byline, I can have it in the bio. I can mention it in my from an experience or as a commentary about why I believe this. But I certainly couldn't put my show in the list, but that doesn't mean that's not more valuable. So if my bio says that I'm the host of Product Launch Hazards at that time, that's what's the show we were. I was the host of. On the show of. Host of Product Launch Hazard. And here's the 10 podcasts I listened to. That's something of great value. But you know what that did for me is it got me some amazing guests for my show. It got other people to plug my show and say thank you for having written this article about them. And I still get excited because it ranks up at the top. My name's right there, so people are always searching me up. And that really helps my authority as an innovation podcaster. Right. So it helps either way. But you have to be willing to relinquish your name out of that list. So if it's really important that you get your podcast on that numbered list, then this is not the way to go. You can definitely write about it in your opening paragraph. You can write about it in the close, you can be in the bio, but you cannot put yourself in that list. Little bit different strategy. I like it. It's a higher authority. I'm above the list.

Yeah. If you're the person setting the list and you have a podcast, they're gonna figure that out and they're gonna go listen to your podcast too.

Right. They're making me the list authority. Right. That's a different position. So it's a decision on how you wanna do it. It's a lot more work to do this because honestly, picking those shows is hard. Sometimes. It would take me two weeks to pull a list of 10. Cause I wanted to listen to em, wanted to make sure they were really good, wanted to make. I wanted to make a personal comment about why they were good, why they were worth listening to. That was my addition to it. There's lots of listicles out there that don't work that hard that just take the description, which if your description is weak, is going to hurt you. Make sure the first couple of sentences of your description isn't about you. It's about why someone should listen to your podcast. It's going to make your any opportunity that you might have to be in one of these listicles more valuable. It's going to make it easy for them to copy and paste and include you. Because I can tell you that there were lots of shows that might have been good. But when I read their short paragraph description, I was like, forget it they're all about themselves. They're just too much ego for me to include and I just skipped them before I ever even gave them a listener chance. And if I would do that, as a podcast list builder and a writer, you can imagine that a listener is not going to give you the time of day either.

That's so true, Tracy. That's. You know what, boy, big red flag needs to go up right here. This is a real important point to emphasize in this whole discussion about lists and getting your show out there and to be found. You're so right, Tracy. It's so simple, so many podcasts. And it is really sort of the, I would say the lazy podcasters or podcast producers path to creating a new show listing is making it all about the host. And if you. Not that it's not important. The host is important and people are going to listen to the host and hopefully like the host and want to keep listening to them. But if you make it all about the host and not what's in it for the listener, you got to lead with what's in it for the listener and then the value for the host will come.

And that's what these articles are. That's what these articles are. I'm a listener and I'm out there looking for the best podcast in whatever category, right? I'm out there looking for something new. This is so critically important. So if you haven't been listed before, this is a great time for you to go out there and check out if there are any lists. There might not be in your micro category. That's interesting. If there isn't one, maybe consider being the author and if there is a bunch of them, go pick the best blog, the best publication. Try both those models, try one of each, see how it works, get them to update their list for 2024, get them to update it for the new year and see how much business that drives you. I can tell you that I know from that top 10 list I created on innovation podcasts. I still today get those podcast hosts reaching out to me, telling me they're getting not only listeners but business because of that article. And I think I wrote it four years ago, easily. It might even be five. Easily. Yeah.

Well, no, and honestly, that's the thing. That's the power of these lists and blogs. Not to get too far off topic here, but that's the power, the long term power of these lists and of blogs that you create either for your podcast episodes or about podcasts in general. We have one that's almost six years old. Now that we're the very top result on the first page of Google for a very valuable search term that we still get traffic from every month and just hasn't changed in all those years. So. And I don't even think that blog or episode has been updated anytime recently. But updating is a good way to really turn the odds more in your favor.

Right. And the reality is, is that this is going to lead to directory listings, like in all kinds of places and other types of promotion, because that helps with that reach that's going on on everything. Because people are looking for the easy answer. So this is also something AI loves lists. It makes it easy for it to do its job. So when it's out there searching and it sees these popular listicle articles, it's easy for them to compile that. Find the overlap. Which is why getting on more than one list is a good idea. Find the overlap, pulling it together and then making the suggestion. And it does away with all the writers to begin with. Yes. But it was from that that the information about your show shows up. So we definitely need to be a part of this written word. It's required in our future. So I want you to think about that as well. This is going to be one of the big power moves in marketing and promoting and that's why we're starting the year with this one.

And just a little side tip about this, you realize when your show is mentioned in a listicle somewhere or you write an article yourself and contribute that somewhere else, guess what? That's going to link back to you, wherever you are, to your show, to your website, to your press or media page. This is sort of how you build that sort of spider web of cross links and backlinks which are going to provide you value long term.

Exactly. So you can use it for a long time. You made a top list some at some point in the history of it doesn't really matter. You can always use it for a really long time. Drop the year off. Obviously, usually most articles will drop the year off. It might be in the subtitle or it might be in the opening paragraph, but they usually don't keep them in the title anymore because they know it has longevity when it builds up on the first page of Google. It's kind of a tactic that it'll say the best podcasts for such and such, but not the best podcast of 2024 for such and such. Like, it's very rare that that does that in the. In the main title subtitles. All the time they're in there. Or it might say dash updated for 2024 if it was a previous list that was from 2018 or 2019.

You're making me realize, Tracy, although I may not want to mess with it because it's still so strong SEO wise today. But that episode we did feed you'd brand six years ago was the best and worst podcast websites at the time. And we didn't say for 2017 when we did it. But there have been some changes and some updates that might be worth refreshing or doing an updated new one that refers to that one or that the old one refers to the new one when people find it through Google because they're going there first. I have to think about that.

Yeah. So this is something if you're gonna do updates and you're not a blogger and you don't understand SEO on your website, don't mess with the titles that you already have. It's not a good idea. You do a new episode, do something new. Just create a new one, see if it supplants the old one. It's not a good idea to go back and update old ones without knowing what you're doing from an SEO standpoint. So I'm just gonna say that right out there in a publication situation, they totally know what they're doing. So they publications know how to update past articles and so they know how to do that properly and make sure that they're getting all of the original SEO value and then adding new to it.

Great tips. I think this is a great one to talk about here in early 2024 as we're all planning for how to get more out of our show.

That's right. And as always, we're going to be back next week with another topic. We are always looking for new ideas. We want to make sure that we're giving you the most value can we are focused mainly on people who've already started a podcast, but if you haven't started one yet, we're able support you as well with some ideas about what you might want to do when you get started. But there are all kinds of tools and useful ideas, tips, courses, programs, more podcast episodes that you can possibly listen to, I think in one weekend, that's for sure. All of it is now on podcasters united.org that's where we decided to donate our shows to. So we donated the binge factor and feature brand and our entire tip library to a nonprofit organization called Podcasters United because we think that's where most podcasters can get the most value from it. So that's where we'll be. So if you're looking for the blogs for this episode, you can still go to the to feed your brand co or you can go to poditize.com forward/feed your brand. It'll forward into podcasters united.org but that's where it's located now. And you have lots of new things. We've got new AI newsletter we're playing with over there, some new fun things for you to try out in Podcasters United. So go have some fun over there.

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