Meaningful Podcast Marketing With A Focus On Reasons And Not ROI With Shiv Gaglani Of The Raise The Line Podcast

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority Magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazzard shares strategies, tips and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor. Now let's join Tracy as she explores how to rise above all noise with the Binge Factor.

Hey everyone, welcome to the Binge Factor. I'm Traci Hazzard and we are going to Raise the Line today on Healthcare Podcast Education. I have got Shiv Gaglani, the co founder and Chief executive officer of Osmosis.org, a leading health education platform with an audience of millions of current and future clinicians, future nurses, future doctors, as well as their patients and family members. His primary passion is developing innovative and scalable solutions in the fields of healthcare plus education. To this end, he curated the Smartphone Physical, which debuted at tedmed, and the Patient Promise, a movement to improve clinician patient relationship through partnership and pursuing healthy lifestyle behaviors. Shiv is also an avid writer who has written two educational books, Success with Science and Standing out on the SAT and Act Extremely Important right now for many of those students applying to nursing school at other places right now. He is a regular contributor to Forbes, which named him their 30 under 30 list in 2018. And after graduating Magna Cum laude from Harvard College in 2010 with degrees in engineering and health policy, he began his MD degree at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, from which he is currently on leave, and earned his MBA from Harvard Business School in 2016. I am not a fan of podcasts that sort of shift over and take advantage of the situation. In fact, we've had lots of people come up and apply to have their show here to talk about their Covid series. But I made a giant exception here because this show is an exception. Raise the Line Their podcast is really geared at raising the quality of healthcare overall, raising meaningful careers for those who want to head into healthcare. And this is a scary time. So them being at the right place at the right time with a long term message, not a short term message was key to why I decided to have Raise the Line and Shivka Galani on our show today. So let's listen to what they have to say and what they're doing with Raise the Line.

Thanks so much for joining me today. I appreciate it.

Thanks for having me Tracy.

So Raise the Line. How timely and important did you have the Podcast planned in advance. Were you thinking about it, about having a show and then all of a sudden had to quickly shift on April 15th to just get this thing going.

Great question. I mean, we had been thinking about a podcast for a while and actually some years ago we did this interview series with leaders in medical education called Leaders in Medical Education Lime and it was very successful as a blog. And so we decided we want to do a podcast at some point. And then when Covid hit, we accelerated the development of the podcast, obviously, because it was just the right timing and we wanted to hear from healthcare and education leaders and government leaders how they were increasing healthcare capacity or raising the line, as we call it.

Well, so you didn't quite have the full genesis of the idea for your show wasn't in that vein and you had to shift that.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, we knew the types of people we wanted to speak with. And then the impetus to get the show up and running was this crisis. And it reminds me of that quote from Lennon, which is, there are decades where nothing happens and there are weeks where decades happen. And certainly.

A lot of decades happened over the past few months, as I'm sure you can relate to as well.

Well, you crash coursed, unlike a lot of podcasters, you put 70 episodes into six and a half months here. That's like an average of 10 per month. I'm sure you did a lot more in the beginning. So it's probably slowed down just a little bit for you here and gotten onto a good pace. So you certainly got that crash course then how to podcast quickly, where some people take a lot longer to get through that model of it. What did you find to be the most difficult thing about podcasting as you got started?

Yeah, I mean, it's incredible how much goes into creating a high quality podcast. I mean, the first few episodes it was me wearing a T shirt, kind of my bed in the background, not looking as professional. And our marketing team was like, well, we've got to improve that. And so if you people who are watching this video can see, I have like a real background that they sent me, I have a microphone and I normally wear button down shirts on these podcasts now. So there's like those small logistical things. And then the other thing is actually to your point, we have done 70 episodes in the last six and a half months. We've actually increased our rate of doing episodes. So we've gone from one or two a week to now three a week and probably will go to four even. And the reason is even Though we crash coursed to adjust to Covid and wanted to get as many people like the former CDC director, Dr. Tom Frieden on Arianna Huffington was a guest as well, we realized that we struck a chord not only with our audience, but with others that we bring on the podcast. Because regardless of what happens with COVID whether we have vaccine in three months, six months, or a year, the concept of raising the line will outlast the pandemic. Because we all know that our healthcare system, there's shortages, there have been shortages, and some of these macro trends in terms of improving the healthcare system, like telehealth, are here to stay now.

You know, it's so interesting that you say that, because that's the biggest criticism to those that are coming out there with a Covid related series or a Covid related show is that it does. It won't have longevity, it won't have sustainability, but you've instead built in the seeds for sustainability. And by not naming it Covid, the COVID Podcast or something, you've also helped with that. So your messaging is we're going to raise the line on our health care, not just raise the line on this crisis.

Exactly right. I mean, I gave a TEDx talk a year ago that I think has aged pretty well. And basically the point I made was that what we stand for at Osmosis is we want to help people get into meaningful careers in healthcare. Right? So our audience, we have 1.8 million YouTube subscribers, 1.3 million registered users. They're mostly medical, nursing and PA students and the schools where they attend. And so we've been doing this for years in terms of educating people who are going to become healthcare professionals. And so without even knowing, flatten the curve or raise the line. We have been raising the line. We've been increasing healthcare capacity. Covid just took what we were saying in that TEDx talk and the Forbes article we wrote that went along with that and made it happen in the course of months as opposed to years.

So you got that push. Thank goodness. I'm so glad you mentioned Osmosis, because what I'd really love to talk about here is the sort of the role. So you have a company, and this podcast is, in a sense, an offshoot of that company. So it's a marketing arm for that. How is that working for you in getting the message out for the company itself without being too pushy and salesy?

Yeah, it's a really good point. And it's been something that's been top of mind. So we Launched the podcast. The primary goal is to raise awareness around the things that various companies, health and education companies, some publicly traded, some privately held, as well as the government, is doing to improve health care capacity. So there's sort of this firewall between me and being a host and my chief medical officer and our chief nursing officer, Jona, being the hosts of this podcast. And then our team that does sales and marketing, right, where they know that we're doing these and they love listening to it. Our head of sales, like, he now, he does a daily walk for an hour every day, and he's like, that's four RTLs, four podcasts. He listens to a day that we record, and there's obviously a backlog that he's going through. And he knows that when we interview someone like a dean of a medical school, the point is not to then go after, you know, and start pitching the dean of the med school about the product. Right. Like, that's gross and very bad and switchy. It's very much like, hey, what can we learn from this? What can we give to our audience? And then if it happens six months from now or six years from now, that we have an opportunity to work with that school or that university or that health system, that's great, but it's definitely not A to B or that's super linear.

Well, and so what you're hearing, listeners out there, for those of you who are thinking about podcasting or have a podcast, is you're listening to this sort of guesting strategy that is a very targeted audience match to those you might like to have partnerships with, to those you might like, have to have become clients. So that's a very strategic matching of making sure that you're bringing on guests that matter to your corporation, to your company, to your goals. And then also, though, what you've done so well is match that perfectly with what your audience wants to hear and where they are. So you're curating that nice match between the two. So it isn't just solely focused on one thing or the other, it's doing both. I'm going to call it networking. Right. Sales, networking and marketing to the right audience at the same time.

Yeah, exactly. Right. One thing I'll add is the consistency in the questions we ask. So every guest we bring on, the last question we ask them is what advice they would give to our audience of current and future healthcare professionals about meeting the challenges of COVID and beyond. And that allows that consistent question has allowed us to not only draw users in or learners in the people in our audience, but also to do montages, right? Like do like a clip of like what does the Michael Gustafsson, the doctor who runs UMass Memorial Medical center, say to the current future generation of healthcare professionals? Similarly, what does Dr. Donna Shalala, who is a congresswoman in Miami and used to run the hhs, say? And it's like just a really interesting way when you add that consistent questioning to bring something of value to your audience. The other thing, I'll say the reason podcasting seems to be so much better fit than what we were doing before with just written interviews and blogging is that the content cascades really well. So you can go from a video, to having a video and audio interview, to then having just an audio interview, to then having a transcript which can become a blog, to having bite sized social media content. And so like that recyclability when you start with video, video podcasting has been really helpful for our marketing team in terms of recycling those assets.

Right. So you're really creating a more direct sourced content creation process for your entire corporation, for your entire messaging that's going on throughout the social media. Now you have something very unique. You already had a decent sized YouTube audience, you already had a decent sized following of that. How did you find the transfer going from that to podcast? Did you find that a lot of them came? Did you find that your audience increased? What did you find in that process?

Yeah, so obviously the very top of the funnel for us is YouTube. We're a YouTube first video library, 1.8 million YouTube subscribers. Many of them did come and one way we were able to get them to the podcast, to Spotify or to Apple's Apple itunes podcast is that we release a trailer of every podcast interview. So interview is 15 to 25 minutes depending. But then, then we released a five minute trailer that has the first question of who the guest is and then the last question I mentioned, which is what advice they have to our audience going into careers in healthcare. And so that trailer goes out, it gets a couple thousand views and then off that it has a direct link to the Spotify or itunes podcast link. There's definitely things we can do to improve it. We don't often message our audience about it's part of our newsletter, but it isn't a dedicated part to the 1 million plus subscribers we have on our main platform, osmosis.org, but it is something we're working to optimize and improve of how we get more of our audience from YouTube and the platform. To our podcast and vice versa.

We're big proponents here. Potatoes. And the binge factor of doing that sort of full from video all the way through to the blog posts to the social share, and making sure that you're really maximizing this content that you've worked so hard on, this messaging that you've curated, and this wonderful guest that you've managed to get in front of you. And you have some really interesting guests. Are you finding that the interesting guest is helping to raise awareness for both the show and for the company as a whole?

Absolutely. I mean, we have a nomination form, so we have a lot of our. We invite our users to nominate their deans, their presidents of their universities or health systems, or just other people they think are interesting. And that's been really helpful to get source material. We haven't yet started asking our existing guests for nominations for other guests, but that's happened a bit organically. For example, one of our guests is an investor on Osmosis, Alan Patrickoff, who started Greycroft and then Primetime Partners, and he and his partner, Abby Levy, came on to talk about the silver tsunami, the aging population, and how we have to raise land for them. He was the one who recommended Arianna Huffington. He invested in her, he's friends with her. It is a solid strategy, though, to actively ask your guests for other people. Then the other piece of this is closing the loop. Because if somebody is going to spend 20, 30 minutes with you, I call this 10% more effort, 100% more caring. If you actually go above and beyond and close the loop and say, hey, we're going to release the podcast in three days. Before you do that, you message them and their social media team and make it super easy for them. Right. Take 10% more of your effort. Show 100% more caring by giving them actual assets that they can then very easily share. Then, yeah, absolutely. It leads to, you know, when Arianna Huffington shared her interview with us, definitely got a lot of uptick from her audience that thrive to what? Osmosis is wonderful.

It's a great segue then in for us to talk about our five things that we like to talk about, podcasting, and questions that we ask. So you're talking about getting great guests, and that's kind of what you just highlighted here. But are there ways that you've gone out there to seek them when you want to get someone that you find to be very interesting and relevant to your audience?

Yeah. So we read a lot, a lot of our teammates, we read a lot of healthcare and education News. And so that's often where we find potential guests. Dr. Amy Compton Phillips is the chief clinical officer at Providence, which is one of the largest healthcare systems. She's on CNN a lot talking about COVID And so someone on our team was like, hey, she could make a great guest. And so we just literally use LinkedIn to find these people, send them a quick LinkedIn invite with a personalized note saying, hey, saw you on cnn. It was really awesome. We'd love to invite you to our podcast. And the fact that we've had some really amazing people, like the former CDC director and recent president of the American Medical association, shows a level of credibility. Plus, they click on the link, they see that we have an audience as well, that they're willing to connect with us. And the ones who aren't, it's mostly, you know, actually, the most likely reason somebody's rejected coming on our podcast is because they, like, we had Amwell and we had sharecare, both of whom are looking at going public, or Amwell did go public, and there's this cone of silence around the time of going public.

They can't talk right now. Yeah. The biggest other problem that I usually find is scheduling. Right. Like, they just can't fit it in their schedule because they're a little bit busy right at this moment.

Totally. But sometimes you luck out and, like, it's like, the perfect time for them to fit in the schedule. So we actually have, like, the head of health at Facebook coming out because they want to do a massive influenza promotion, influenza vaccine promotion campaign, and we're just one of the potential channels to help them do that. So you may luck out with that.

That sounds really good. An interesting and exciting way to get to go out and get guests. But it's showing that you guys all have a deep knowledge and deep respect for your audience in terms of what you're looking for and how you're going out there to seek that. So I think that that ties in really well. So that goes to my second question on how you increase listeners. Do you have a campaign? How are you going out there to increase listeners?

Yeah, so it's the regular posts on YouTube really help us, because then people will come and see. Oh, Osmosis has released this video featuring this amazing guest. Let's go check it out. So that's one channel. The other channel is weekly newsletter, as mentioned, where we have this featured podcast episode that we've had. At the end of the month, we do a roundup blog post too, and say, these are some of the most interesting interviews we did and we push that out to our users as well. I think relying on your guests user base is also an important thing. I mentioned making it easy for them to share on Twitter, on LinkedIn and other places. Some of them have actually we've had two guests put out press releases that they were interviewed by us. And that's obviously been really interesting and a source of pride for their organization that they were on our podcast. Those are some of the things that come into play. I think there are probably a lot of other low hanging fruit that we aren't doing and we'd love to hear from you and your guests how you all do that too.

I think this is the area that everyone feels like I'd love to do more here. So you're not alone. So you seem to have a team. You seem to have a great system going on here. You produce like pros already. What are some of the keys to producing like a pro?

Yeah, we are very fortunate. So we produce content for a living, right? Like we have over 1600 videos that have basically virtualized medical schools. So we have already a team of voice over artists, video editors, illustrators, marketing team. And so we came in with this infrastructure that we transitioned some people into podcasting and in particular would love to shout out like our producer Michael Carisi, who was the podcast host at University of Vermont and became a video voiceover artist for us. And in my one on one with him six months or actually a year ago now, he talked about that background and I said, I filed it away saying, hey, if we ever launch a podcast, this is the guy. And he became the person to do it. So he leads that team. I have a chief of staff, Max Harris, who helped operationalize it and before joining us, he was chief of staff to Mayor Pete and so knows a lot about like media interviews and whatnot. And so he helped operationalize it. Michelle Lee is our booking agent. So like she will, I'll just send her a quick note and be like, hey, like let's get the CEO of Sharecare on or WebMD and you know, she'll make it happen. So booking. And then we also have two wonderful video illustrators, video producers, Racial and Gil, who basically joined the podcast with me and they're the ones recording and giving the guest info and insight, telling them to silence their cell phones and whatnot. So it has become very much a factory in terms of how we produce it. And the last thing is my co host, our Chief Medical Officer, Dr. Rishi Desai, actually became a Bit of a mini celebrity during COVID because before joining Osmosis, he ran Khan Academy Health and Medicine. And before that he was an infectious disease researcher at the cdc or infectious disease outbreak investigator at the cdc. So Bernie Sanders and Anderson Cooper, Sanjay Gupta have all interviewed him. And so that also led to a lot of inbound interest in what we were doing to raise line. And then John Amil, as our chief nursing officer, is also a wonderful, wonderful host. So, yeah, we're very fortunate to have this amazing team.

You've got a really pro team. Yeah, really pro team. And you know what? This is what I want everyone out there to hear. We get a lot caught up into like, how are we editing our show? And all of those things. But what you're pointing out is it's as important on the pre production side of things, the side where we're deciding who to interview, how we're booking them, how we're setting up those shows and what we're doing. And if we put a lot of research and thought at that beginning side, we have a better successful outcome. And the production side will take care of itself. Because you guys already have. You have a machine in there already doing that.

Yeah. And one thing I would recommend too is the branding around the podcast is helpful. So raiseline is very specific. Like it's a brand, Right. And like it's on Wikipedia. And like we coined that. We own raiseline.org, so one thing we do to make our guests really excited about this is that before they even appear on our show, we send them a mug that raised line mug. So they get some swag from the podcast before they even appear on the show. And then the first thing I ask them when they join us on the video chat like we are on, like right now, is they put up. I asked them if they received the mug. They all did. Many of them have it right next to them and so they put it up and we do these mug shots. And so we have this like huge wall now of like mug shots of our guests that get them more bought in. It isn't just like another 30 minute block in their schedule. They feel like a connection to our podcast and our brand.

That's wonderful. I love that. So you're encouraging engagement with your guests, which is fantastic. How do you encourage engagement with the audience? How do you get them? I mean, podcast listening can be real passive and they don't talk back. So how do we get them to talk back? How do you do that?

So it's a really, really good question. We think we're still trying to crack that nut. We get a lot of comments in our YouTube previews. When we share that in the middle of the podcast, we're considering introducing a little like 10, 15 second clip saying, hey, remember to go if you like this, go to this site and subscribe or go to awesomehurst.org so starting to play around with that. And the other piece that's really potentially very interesting is most of our learners are health professionals and health professional students. And if you're a health professional, you require a certain amount of continuing medical education, and you can get CME for listening to podcasts and reading articles. And so we're thinking of doing getting our podcast continuing medical education approved because many of the things we're discussing, like just yesterday on the show, we had the chief medical officer at Mount Sinai Morningside, his name is Dr. Brian Radwell, and he was specifically sharing how they adjusted to New York being the epicenter and how they made negative. How they sustained negative pressure rooms for their COVID patients. And it was a really interesting tidbit that certainly if you're a chief medical officer or a medical professional, you know, in Arizona, you could benefit from listening to that as well and maybe a continuing education credit. So we're thinking of making it a little more interactive where at the end of the podcast you can go claim your CME credit. And so that there's like a real call to action beyond just passively listening, as you're mentioning.

Yeah, absolutely. That's a really great way. I think that's a really good strategy for you. We last usually talk about our last tips about monetization, but in this case, I want to call it more return on investment because of how you've structured your show and because it is, in a sense, corporately sponsored. So what do you see as the key metrics? What do you see as the ideal monetization of the show for you?

Yeah, so the main goals of our podcast are to build relationships with thought leaders in the space. And so number of episodes we do and who we're bringing on is like the key metric. Number two is in parallel, is to get our audience excited about the concept of raising the line and who we're interviewing. So definitely we look at user metrics, how many people are listening, what our reviews are on these platforms, and then the third is just insights. I mean, frankly, this is one of the things that I like most about the podcast is just when I get 30 minutes of time with the president of a health System or the CEO of an education tech company like Chegg or 2U. Am I learning? Right? Am I learning and getting insights that then I can use to steer the company in the right direction? And that's hard. There's no, like, real metric for that, apart from like, being able to write my thoughts out and my thinking more clearly and getting insights from maybe, I guess, maybe Eureka moments per month or whatever.

Eureka moments.

I love that.

That's a great new measurement. That's actually one of my metrics here at the show, is that, am I learning something new, which I can pass on to my listeners, but I can pass on to all my clients as well. And so that's a very important metric. But you're right, it's not as definable. Right. You're unable to be able to say, that's exactly it. And so anyway, I love that idea. Eureka moments. That's gonna be my new one. We'll say how I'm gonna start categorizing that. Well, you know, this show wouldn't be called the Binge Factor if we didn't think that people binge listened to your show. Right. You wouldn't be invited on here. So you've got nursing physician assistant students who are coming in and brand new, finding your show and binge listening to them all. I could see that happening very easily. Do you have any sense that you have binge listeners? Are you seeing that? Are you hearing that from your audience?

We definitely have examples of that. People who would take the time to write a review and then like the same people who comment on every YouTube video we release. Certainly what we've heard, too, is when we ask our guests. I've had the opportunity to circle back with some of our guests and say, hey, did you get any feedback from this? From our audience? And some of them will say, Yes. I got LinkedIn invites after coming on your show, and these people wanted to connect and learn more about something I said in your podcast. So there's not a firm measure right now if the binge listeners or the super users, but it's definitely something we'd like to work on. If you have suggestions for how to do that, how to identify them and promote them, that'd be really, really helpful.

Well, let's first talk. What do you think your binge factor is?

I actually don't know. Yeah, it'd be hard to.

You have no idea. That's okay. So I psychoanalyze these shows. I'm not a professional. I am a professional in podcasting, but I'm not A professional psychoanalyst. But in terms of understanding what binge listeners are looking for, one of the key things that I think you tap into is because of your deep knowledge, because of your deep experience, and because you're so embedded in the messaging and the control over raising the line and the purpose of the show, you ask the questions that we don't hear anywhere else. One of the shows that you did, it's early on in your episodes, you talk about a story about how the ventilators, where the ventilators are being split off and used on multiple patients. That story actually came from someone who learned about it from the Route 91 Vegas shooting. And they had been doing that as if it was in a war zone. Being able to have to do that to save patients there and looked at that and said, can we do something to help here in Covid, that's a story I never heard anywhere on the media. And that's what you're diving into. And you're asking the questions in a very specific perspective way that is useful to your audience, where your audience probably sitting back going on the general news and general information going, why aren't you asking them this? Because that's what I want to know. You're asking that, and I think that's what makes you truly bingeable. That is your binge factor.

I love that. First of all, thanks for taking the time to listen to several episodes and then specifically knowing that out. But I agree that needs to be something that we can think even more how to maybe take those binge factor moments or binge factor excerpts and package those in a way that gets more people into the show and to take an action.

Yeah, I think that might actually be a great strategy for you because that shareable moments. So when you get your audience to start raving about you as like, this is why I feel like I'm going to be more successful. I'm going to have a more successful career in healthcare, which is your goal of the show. Right. So when you're really helping them do that, and these are the points that you're doing, that's going to help them share your show easier and that will increase the listeners. So maybe that's your new increased listener as a strategy to test out in the next couple of months. Love that.

I love that. I'm going to take that back to Michael for sure.

There you go. Now you have a situation with. You're running a company, you're busy. You're trying to run a show here too, and handle and be A front person. You brought on a co host from the very beginning and you have a team that's helping you through that. How is that working for you? Does that feel difficult to let go of the whole control of the messaging and the process to someone else, or are you very comfortable with that?

I feel pretty comfortable with it. I mean, I definitely weekly or now bi weekly meetings where we talk about guests and we talk about goals as they've shifted. I mean, two podcasts a week to four is significant, but I have realized after running this company, it's a 65 person company, that I just cannot do everything. And so very early on realized that I have to let go of control. And frankly, doing that sometimes, most of the time leads to better outcomes. Right. Because other people, if you bring the right people on, people who are creative and experts and live the values you set for the company like we have, you get even better ideas coming out of it.

Well, for other startups and corporations who are thinking about starting a show, what's your advice to them?

I think being super clear about your goals, like what are the objectives? I'm very written, like I love writing memos out before I go into something. One or two page Google Docs. And so it was very, very clear about what we wanted to achieve, specific outcomes and why we're doing this. And so again, it was providing value to our audience, connecting with these thought leaders and developing insights about our space that we can take back to what we build as a company. And so I think that's the number one advice, I think don't just do a podcast, because everyone's doing a podcast. Have very specific goals you hold yourself accountable to and then with that you can decide whether you want to double down and do more episodes. Or maybe that was a good test or a good experiment, or maybe it was just for the COVID moment, but doesn't need to exist after Covid. And there's no shame in that. I think we have to reassess every year everything we do as to whether it's still useful or not. You don't just want to do it to be busy, basically.

That's right. Well, I love that you're looking at it as a fluid thing as well. So as long as it's continually achieving your outcome, you're moving it to more episodes per week because that makes sense in what you're working on right now. And you're always looking at ways to shift that and keep it relevant and sustainable because obviously it's working for you. So raise the Line Podcast Shivklani, thank you so much for coming on the show. It is a fantastic podcast and even if you aren't in the healthcare space specifically, there are some really insightful interviews into education that I found insightful as a parent and as a godmother of student that's about to go off to a nursing school next year. I turned her onto your podcast as well because I think she's in for a very different world next year. And the insights that you're providing on what healthcare and education is doing together is really interesting. So thank you for that.

Well, thank you for having me and congratulations to your daughter on going to nursing school. Also, just feel free to reach out to us. We'd love to give her a free Osmosis subscription just as she begins that journey. And thank her for raising the line and increasing healthcare capacity as well.

Yeah, definitely. We need more of that. Well, thank you so much for joining me. Raise the Line all the links to the podcast and all the links to Osmosis will be in the blog post for this episode@thebingefactor.com.

So I hope you got some inspiration today for how to take something that is timely and important, but really meld it into your strategy, melding it into brand messaging and the key to a sustainable business at the end of the day. So by looking at the outcomes, I love what Osmosis is doing. I love what their plan is and their future is. And they understand that to the nth degree. And so they've set their outcomes for their show, their return on investment, evaluation of it. They've set all of those things to mirror the long term sustainability of their company, of their audience, and of their community of healthcare professionals. That in and of itself is why this podcast is bingeable, but also why this podcast is going to stay past Covid, past the pandemic. It's going to have a life of its own that's going to be able to continue on because its messaging isn't what's trendy, what's news, what's happening in Covid. And it's also not about the controversial side of it. It's about the support and this healthcare community needs what Raise the Line is providing today. So kudos to them over at Osmosis. And it was such a wonderful opportunity to get to talk to Shivka and Galani and hear what they're really about and how seriously they've taken podcasting as a part of their corporate and messaging and content strategy. So I really appreciate his wide openness in talking about that. You know, I think we can all learn from that. And that's the key here to what we want to present on the Binge Factor. What my goal is in gaining interesting conversations and being able to get insights into where people are taking their podcasts, what they're really doing that's working, and what you can do to make yours successful as well. So as always, please go to thebingefactor.com you'll be able to connect up with Raise the Line, check out everything about Osmosis, and learn more about what's going on at their podcast and what they're doing. And also be able to check out some of the other podcasts and the other guests that we've had on that are really amazing in the space that where you might learn something too. Remember that we also have a guest application@thebingefactor.com so if you want to suggest up a show or you think you're the host that should be talking to me next, please go ahead and use that form@thebingefactor.com thanks everyone for listening. I'll be back next time with another podcast inspiration and success story on the Binge Factor.

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