Meet Patent & Trademark Expert Jason Webb

Protect your brand, product or invention from the hazards of consumer product launching and go from idea to product to big brand. With guidance from retail product design and development experts Tracy and Tom Hazard. Get the insider secrets to put the right things in the right order with the right resources so you can out design, outsource, and out profit your way to retail success.

Hey, Jason. Welcome to product launch Hazards. So this is your first introduction to our community. So I really want to make sure that everybody gets to know you, gets to know your background here, and that's kind of what we're gonna do today. So you are Jason Webb from Pearson Butler. You're a partner there, and you have been practicing intellectual property law is that specialty for 14 years. So. Wow, That's a lot of experience and a lot of time spent. I take it you know a lot about patents and trademarks and all kinds of ip.

Yeah, and that's what I focus on. My background is in physics and numerical modeling, so I did a lot of programming in my undergraduate. And I was always kind of a science geek, science nerd. And so patent law, trademark law, they're really good fits for me.

So I would imagine that that physics background all helps in terms of understanding the kinds of claims that inventors are bringing to you or companies or corporations are bringing you.

Yeah, physics is sort of the fundamental science of everything. And so it's pretty easy for me to get up to speed on pretty much any kind of technology. The only ones that I don't really do a lot with are real advanced pharmaceutical stuff, like really deep organic chemistry, but that's about. So I handle a lot of electrical things, computer things, physical inventions, nutraceutical compounds, cleaning compounds, things like that.

Wow. Yeah. You know, I found over the years that the attorneys that we've worked with, who have a sort of fundamental understanding of how things work and not just the law, actually do a much better job of constructing claims. And that's a benefit to you guys listening out there to you inventors. So you do a lot of speeches. I've seen you talk multiple times to inventors groups, to entrepreneurs, Amazon sellers, I imagine, as well. And what is the kind of biggest area or lack of understanding about intellectual property that exists out there?

Well, so intellectual property is made up by laws, right? I mean, it doesn't exist out. It's something you find in nature. And so it only exists because there's laws that say it exists. And the laws sometimes are kind of weird or arbitrary. And so unless you studied that, then you're not going to Understand what are copyrights, what are trademarks, what are patents, what do they cover, what do they not cover? How do I protect my business? Everyone knows, kind of as a law of nature, that we live in this world where we need to be competitive in order to survive. It's a world economy now. You've got to be special and different in order for people to take notice of you. And people have a really good understanding that you've got to have something special about your business and you've got to protect what that special thing is. So then the big question in the heads is, how do I do that? So that's a lot of times I get questions on, well, what do I have that's protectable and how do I protect it? So that's sort of the place where you start.

So I imagine just like you, because I get that all the time. And people are like, what do you think of my idea? Is it marketable? And I'd be like, wow, I saw it for five seconds. It's hard to evaluate at that stage, right?

It's really hard. And some of the people, some of the inventions that I've seen that I've been really excited about and thought would do really well just fell into nothing. And some of them where I thought, you know, I'm just. I'm just giving away my time as charity that this person's never going to do anything with this bizarre idea. Turned out to be great ideas that make a lot money. So I always want to be frank and honest with my clients, and so I'll tell them how I feel, but I don't pretend like I can predict what's going to be successful or not. I just. If I have concerns, I talk about the concerns, and if I have excitement, I talk about the excitement. And then as far as whether it'll be successful or not, gosh, that's. That's really hard to predict.

Yeah, well, you know, this is the thing. When I go around and I give speeches and a lot of the people have seen me speak, it's like the number one thing that I say is that the best ideas don't win. There's so many things in your way to making that happen that you really have to have the best system and the best marketing, and you have to have so many best things that combine together to get that best idea to win. It's not just having the best idea.

And there's a lot of work involved and a lot of making mistakes and fixing them and a lot of diligence and Persistence and also a lot of making deals and talking to people and convincing people that what your vision is?

Yeah. Oh, that's so true. Including the Patent and Trademark Office. You have to convince them that your vision is. Right, right, right.

That you've got something special that deserves.

Yeah. So this is a place where a lot of the people who have come in, a lot of our members here, they come in because they understand this idea that they need to be competitive, they have to have value, they have to be original, that they're coming in with this idea. So that's why they're creating original product. If they may have started in the Amazon seller world and they're growing into a new private label brand, that brand is made up of original products and original designs. And so can you talk a little bit about how some of the companies that you've worked with use their patent portfolio to build a more asset based company, more intellectual property valued company?

Yeah. So whenever you have protection around something, it allows you to push competitors away so that you're the one that has that space, you're the one selling that product. It allows you to sell the product easier, allows you to sell it for a bigger profit margin. It allows you to grow where you don't have to have a humongous marketing budget in order to capture the market. You can grow more organically. And a lot of times where you're a small business, medium sized business or an entrepreneur, you don't have the Fortune 500 budget to launch a product. Right. And so having that protection allows you to grow and incubate this concept in something bigger, which then allows you to add more pieces and add more parts and version 2.0 and ancillary products. Right. And so it becomes sort of this firm foundation that you can build the rest of your business on. But then on top of that, your large companies, patents are sort of their currency. That's patents and eyeballs. And eyeballs you protect through trademarks. And so where you are trying to build something that you want eventually to sell to a larger company, having patent protection, having trademark protection, having contracts in place with the right people, that's what they're actually buying from. And so you want to make sure that you actually own what's making you successful so that when you sell to the larger company, if that's your exit strategy, then you have what they're looking for and what they want to buy.

No, I think that's so important the way that you said that the eyeballs are important, because I think there are two Value currencies, just as you kind of pointed out, there's the. I have access to the market, to the people, and then I also have the best product. Right. And people are buying it. Right. It's still tied to the. And people want it. And so. And I have proof that people want it. And so that's where I see a lot of the statistics that I say and I have not looked recently is probably a couple of years old, but is that less than 2% of patents, according to the U.S. patent and Trademark Office, are commercialized, make money. They don't make money. They aren't on the market in some way, shape, or form. And I found that number to be, like, shocking to me because you have to think about how many patents does Apple own? And those are pretty much all commercialized. But that means that there's a lot of patents out there that aren't on the market.

Right? Yeah. I have a good friend and client who looked at his own stats, and he's been very successful as an inventor, and he said that he had about a 7% success rate on his patents, which is phenomenal. Right.

It makes my number sound like a lie. Then My number is 86%.

That's fantastic.

Yeah. Yeah. But we have a different strategy, so. Yeah, but. Wow. So is that pretty common among your other clients?

So that's not something that I can measure because I'm there in the beginning. And, you know, it's more like the securities attorneys that see things shift over where it gets bought. So I don't have a good way of collecting that data. But I think that, you know, going for a patent and starting a business is definitely better than trying to win the lottery. It certainly isn't a sure thing, and it takes a lot of work and a lot of effort. And I do have clients that, you know, we get three, four, five years into the patent process and they say, you know what, we're just shutting the business down. Right. But I'd say most of them aren't shutting things down around that time. Whereas the stats that I've seen, when you're starting a small business, Isn't it like 85% of them are out of business by the first five years or something like that?

I think it's three. Yeah. Within the first three years. Yeah.

I think my clients have a better rate than that. But it is hard. It is hard to start a business.

So do you find that lots of your clients then end up with, I'm gonna call them patent portfolios for lack of, like, stock Portfolios, that's what kind of what I term it, where they start to realize that this is valuable after the first one, this is valuable. And they start to build more to build a better valuation for their company. Yeah.

And sometimes the reason is that the first patent or the first technology you came up with was your first attempt at solving the market problem that you became aware of. Right. You became aware of this problem. You're like, oh, this is how I'll solve it. But then as you build the business, as you access those customers, as you look into manufacturing or logistics, you realize, oh, well, it has this flaw and I need to make it better in this way. Right. And so you're always improving, always making things better. And so, yeah, so a lot of times, you know, your first go at it might not be exactly how the market wants it done, but at least it gave you the direction and put you in the right place so that you could.

That's so true. We find that often is like the seed of the idea. This is the hard thing when I work with smaller clients because a lot of them already have their patent and they're finally really excited about it. And then they finally get to me and I'm like, okay, well we're going to design this for manufacturing. And I can't really make it the way that you originally patent it. So sometimes I think that they went too far in the patent process before they really got that advice and got through that design stage of it for manufacturing. You know, obviously they designed out something.

Yeah. And there's also on the side of the patent attorney. Right. One of the things you're trying to do when you're drafting the application, unless you're just going really cheap, is you're trying to predict and tell the future as to how it might change and what are the different variations. And so, and that's one thing I spend some time with my clients on is so you've described to me how you think it's going to be, but let's talk about second best variations and let's talk about, you know, and not force particular materials or force particular sizes or exact arrangements, you know, how can.

We keep it open? Yeah.

And so I have a lot of situations where clients, you know, call me up or send me an email and say, hey, this is how we've changed things. Is our patent still covering this? And I'd say probably about half the time I look at the patent and say, oh yeah, we anticipated that it might go in that direction.

But again, that's where that physics skill comes back in as you thinking about things. How might they be made? Yeah, that's really great. I think that's really valuable. And it's something that we actually provide as a service here. So if someone has a patent, we provide a service where we help surround their patent with all the other ways it might be made. Because we have lots of experience making things so that they can either be thinking about plugging those holes from a competitive standpoint, or they might just make a patent portfolio that makes it more valuable to sell it off. Because now you really have kind of cornered your little section of the market.

Right, right. I think that's excellent.

Yeah, I think it's very valuable to be thinking about that. So do you advise a lot of your clients to do provisionals?

So provisionals are great tools. When it's not appropriate, then no, you don't want to do it. But typically what I see, the circumstances where it seems to be appropriate are where the client is short on money, where they're short on time, or where they're short on commitment to the invention. And so short on money. Everybody understands that. Cheaper, short on time. You can file a provisional several different ways. I've done some same day even where, you know, you're super desperate to get something filed super quick. Now you're cutting a lot of corners and taking a lot of shortcuts to do that. But it's possible to do that. Right. And it's super hard to do that with a standard, a non provisional. But typically a non provisional may take two months and a provisional may take a month. If you're doing things according to normal and not cutting corners. But the last one, short of commitment to the project, you can look at that in multiple ways. One of them is that I have 10 ideas and I don't have enough money to file 10 patents, but I can file a single provisional with lots of ideas in it, and then we can go to trade shows and whatever. So I have some clients that do that. So they're not fully committed to one of their ideas. They're just looking to see what's going to work out. Another one is I have the idea, but I need to work with someone like you, right, to figure out how I'm actually going to implement the idea. But I want protection before I start into that. And so I'm going to file provisional now and then later when we file the non provisional, we'll have had about nine months to do product development and some research and figure out, you know, the way we Described it in the provisional. Is that really how it's going to be? Or has it been mutated, changed into something that's more appropriate?

That's one of the number one reasons when someone comes to us and we say, hey, I think you really should file a patent. Our decision, our recommendation is when it's still at that sort of uncertain stage about how it's going to turn out or what materials or how many pieces of something it might have. You know, that's kind of uncertainty about what's going to be the most. And in our case, we consider it most marketable because at the end of the day, if you can't sell it, then to us, it's not worth filing a patent for. You're never going to sell it. And so that's kind of the way we look at it. If it's that stage, then we do recommend that they go see an attorney and file a provisional because we think that that's the right stage for it. Especially before we go into any factory and get quotations or we go to that level of it. With prototypes, we have lots of relationships and we have lots of places we can break up parts of the prototype. So we don't always worry about privacy there. But when we get to that next stage, it's essential. We can't do it without information. And I hate for people to be excited, exposed.

Oh, and there's a race to the Patent Office. So you have this competing interest of, I want to have it well developed before I file something, but I need to file something quickly and I need that privacy, that protection. Right. And so you have to find that sweet spot. And provisionals sort of widen up the sweet spot. They give you sort of two stabs at it and that's really helpful.

Yeah. And so that's kind of what I look at in sort of the speed to market that we have today for getting on E commerce is that reality is it's even with some of the products we develop, we can be in the market within six to nine months. So we're still within the timeframe of that provisional to find out, do people want to buy this? So we even have that opportunity of assessing its market value to say, yeah, I want it. And wow, it may even seem that the UK wants it and it's going to go great in Australia. And so you can even make some educated decisions on international patents, which I find some people do them too soon.

And to be able to have feedback on, that's great because. Because I have some clients where their US Sales are kind of lackluster, but in Asia they're doing phenomenal. Right. And you never would have known that.

Yeah, exactly. So it gives you a lot of opportunity. I was really been really a big proponent of it because it really has helped us really be more dialed in when we do file patents and not have to file extensions and many other things and have it be correct the first time and in the right way. And that's part of the reason that our statistics, when I said 86% commercialization is part of it, is that we work with clients who already have access to a market. So there's going to be sales or there should be, but we also don't recommend they file till we've gotten kind of that far down the process. And so that's, I think, part of the success rate that makes a difference for most people. So let's flip that around a little bit and talk back a little bit about your beginnings. So, you know, you've been practicing for 14 years and as you said a little bit earlier on, that there's lots of mistakes that happen. So we're here about the hazards of product launching. So what kinds of things have gone wrong? What kind of mistakes are common in.

The world of patents or in the.

World of IP in general? I'm sure you pick up the pieces for a lot of people at some point.

So a lot of times when people think that they're protected, but they're not. And so then when it matters and they want to be protected, when someone's actually infringing, then it's a lot harder to actually enforce their protection or if even possible at all. So that can be a problem. Another problem is when people don't keep their intellectual property portfolio up to date with the organic growth of the business. Right. Because intellectual property is sort of this firm rigid thing that covers what it covers. But if, you know, over the years, you're, if you update your brand, your trademark doesn't automatically update along with, you've got to make sure that they still connect. Right. I've even seen situations where I've done a review of someone's patent compared to the product. And in an attempt to say, hey, how do we need to change this product to get around this patent? And I've realized their own product doesn't infringe their own patent. Right. And so you have to be careful with how does this shift around? And now that we're changing things with the product, does the patent still apply? So that's something mistake that sometimes people make.

And that's possible. And that's where I think some people think, oh, I have this piece of paper, and you can see mine up there.

I have a few up there. And, you know, so you've got this booklet, and it got prettier, by the way. I don't know if everyone knows, but they redesigned the COVID It's pretty now. And so, yeah, there was a big announcement at south by Southwest. And Tom goes to the thing and he's like, yeah, it wasn't an announcement about any law changes. It was just pretty cover.

Anyway, you have that and you think, oh, that's it. But it's not it. It is a dynamic thing, right? The market is your businesses. Yeah, yeah, that's a really great point, Jason. I hadn't really thought of it that way. I mean, we do. We do make sure that we're keeping up on those things, especially trademarks in our business. But, yeah, you know, but it's doable. You can file extensions, you can file another patent that builds off your old one, and you can give yourself a lot more life than you think, think for the overall intellectual property you built. And I think too many people also underestimate the amount of value they have from having made it for so much longer than everybody else in the market. So competitors start jumping in with something that maybe isn't as good or circumvents a patent. Finding out that really your way after, over time is the best way for a reason. It's more cost effective or it's, you know, more reliable or so keeping that up is essential. That's such a good point.

Another mistake that people will make is they will not be clear about ownership. So when you're inventing something, anybody that you include in the invention process is potentially an owner of the patent. And so if you include people that you know, you include your buddy, but you don't have a deal with him, Right. And maybe now that you're putting a deal together, he wants more than what's reasonable. Right. So you have to be a little bit careful with that. Trademarks. So the person who comes up with the idea for the trademark, they don't have any ownership in it at all. And a lot of times people think, you know, because that's different. That's the opposite of what it's like for patenting things and for copywriting things. The author, the inventor, has ownership rights at the very beginning, whereas the person who came up with the branding idea has no ownership rights at all. Ownership rights for branding come from actually Using the brand and. Or filing a trademark application.

Oh, that's such a good point. Yeah. So it's not your graphic designer, it's really the. The using it on the product or on the package.

And another thing, with copyright rights, then people don't understand that the author has rights to it unless they assign rights away in writing. And so if you have a graphic designer or a photographer or a web developer or any of these people that are creating things that can be copyrighted, they own the rights. Unless you have a written agreement that clearly transfers those rights to you. Just because you paid for them to do it doesn't mean that you own it.

Yeah, that has to be really clear in your contracts with them and your employment agreements. And we do that. We're very careful about that here because we respect that creative. Right. And so we really clear on, are we doing this designed for hire and is that clearly then belonging to us, or are you doing this on spec and it really should belong to you too, or, you know, as a joint venture in that case. Yeah, it does have to be careful.

Yeah. And then this is kind of more of a subtle mistake. I have seen, seen entrepreneurs, clients of mine who are really good at talking to people and doing deals, and I have seen them work magic with intellectual property. That was right. And I have seen people who have really strong, solid intellectual property who can't make a deal happen at all. And because they're just not social enough, they're not right. And so, so much of business has to do with trust and with relationships. And so I guess the mistake I'm talking about there is that if you are not the right person to be doing one or more aspects of your.

Business, then get help seeking licensing or selling it or whatever that might be.

If you're not good with talking to people, maybe you shouldn't be the one trying to do the license. Right. So I never try to negotiate licenses for people because that's just not me. I'm in the background. I'm making sure that it's a good license, that it's written well, that sort of thing. That's what I'm great at. But I have some clients that have put together some deals that if I couldn't have predicted it. Right.

That's a really interesting point. Yeah, I see that a lot. People who invent things get very caught up in their what in the thing. And so explaining the business case for it is not, even if it has, you know, a really good one, they don't dive into that first they Dive into their what? And in that case, sometimes you lose your audience. And so I get that a lot with people who say, I've gotten so much interest around my product, it should be licensable, but no licensing deals have happened. Yeah, I get that a lot.

Yeah. Some of my more successful clients are ones who found a great person to be their CEO, who was passionate about the project, who understood it. Not as well as they did. Didn't understand the technology as well.

Right.

But we're able to grab the reins and make deals with people and to sell it. Right.

Yeah. That's so important. I agree. And that's what we think. You know, we should be modeling Edison and not Tesla, is what I keep saying to people, because Edison was a better businessman and Tesla, you know, wow. Yeah. Not successful and amazing inventions, but not as successful in terms of getting it to market. And so, yeah, if that's your goal, if that's where you're going with it, if this is a business venture for you, then make sure you get business help. Yeah. So critically important. Thank you, Jason.

And as you start to grow the business, then keep what you're best at. Those hats. Right. And the hats that you're the worst at, then find other people to be involved to take those over. So give them the freedom and, you know, the reign to do that.

Yeah. How early do you get involved sometimes? I mean, do you see stuff on a napkin?

Yeah. I don't think there's a point where it's too early to have an influential property attorney be involved. I mean, there's certainly times where it's too early for me to find file anything, or too early for me to research anything. But to help you identify. Yeah, you've got something that might be worth protecting, it's at least a decent candidate. And, you know, you should keep secret about this. You don't have to keep secret about that. Right. So getting an intellectual property attorney involved very, very early on is great. And then just kind of, as things change, just keep them updated.

You know, actually, that reminded me of a very good point. So I worked for an amazing company early on. This is sort of set the framework for my understanding of intellectual property. Milliken and Company. I don't know if you're familiar with them. They're one of the largest textile companies in the world, and they have, by now they probably have thousands of patents on everything from looms and machines, ways that they make yarn and everything. But they also have just as much proprietary technology. And I think that's an underestimated or not well understood part of intellectual property portfolio, that sometimes proprietary technology makes more sense. Yeah.

And so people use the word proprietary and it just means that I own it. Right? So sometimes people, when people say this is proprietary, they actually don't own anything. It's just a marketing word. But sometimes when they say it, what they mean is that this is a trade secret, that this is.

No one knows how to make it.

On this. I don't have a trademark on it. Right. I don't have a registration. But I have done what it takes in order for this to be a trade secret. And that's definitely one of the valid kind of intellectual property. It can be super valuable. And it's great because the rules for trade secrets are pretty much the same all over the world. I did some research on, you know, variances in trade secret law over, you know, different countries. And basically in all the developed world, the rule is if you have a secret and you're able to keep it a secret, right. It's not something that automatically just gets disclosed as soon as you sell the product and people can look at it, right? So it's a secret, it has value because of it being a secret. Okay. And you take reasonable steps to keep it a secret, then that's a trade secret and it's protectable as a trade secret.

I love that. So this is the example of how I really understood the difference between some of the things that they had filed patents for and some of the things that they just created. So there was, there's a loom, a machine that makes fabric, and it makes a pattern in the fabric, not by weaving it, it does it with jets of different things. And so sometimes it's air and sometimes it's water and sometimes the thing. And that's all that they tell anyone, their customers, so that you have no idea how the machine works. So if you come to the factory and take a tour, the machine is covered up from the proprietary section. You can see the fabric coming out of the machine. So you see the result and you, you see the yarn going in at the other end, but you see nothing in the middle. And that's how they've kept it a secret for, I mean, think over 50 years now.

And with employee agreements, right? All the employees that have access to that, any of them that can fix it, right. Upgrade it, those all have agreements that keep it confidential. And the other employees aren't allowed to go behind the COVID right? So you're doing all these reasonable steps to keep it a secret. And in the world of manufacturing, there's lots of trade secrets. And it's something that, for manufacturing, it's something that, you know, it's sort of suited for that. When you're talking about, I've invented a gadget, so if I, you know, if I invented the fidget spinner. Right. Obviously, I can't keep that a secret. As soon as I sell one, someone can take a look at it and see exactly how it works and what are the parts and pieces, and they can cut it in half and look at, you know, how it's put together. And so you have to be intentional, you have to be clear about is this something that actually can be kept a secret, like a manufacturing technique? Right. Or is it something that just can't be kept a secret?

So that's actually a good question then. There's many members who are in that sort of beauty world of making formulated creams and other things. Can they use that under trade secret or because someone could use a machine and analyze it. I mean, you certainly couldn't tell from just using it. Could you keep it as still a secret ingredients? Is that allowed?

So, one, you're required to put some of your ingredients, you know, in order to, to be able to sell it with FDA laws and things like that. Right. So to some degree you're required to talk about what's in it. Certainly if there's anything that would, you know, be an allergen or something like that. And so there's only so much you can keep secret. On top of that, with modern chemistry and analytic techniques, it doesn't really take much for someone at 3M to buy your product, run it through their scientists and say, okay, it has exactly this much of this and Right. All that. Now, how you mix it together and how you compound it, those sorts of things, those might be something you can keep a secret. But again, if you're just using techniques that everybody else uses, then is it really a secret? So again, that goes back to sometimes people will say it's trade secret, when not really.

Yeah, because that's the secret ingredients, right? Well, they're not so secret. Right, because they are on the label.

Yeah, exactly. Well, and so like, you get things like, you know, Coke's secret formula or the 11 herbs and spices of Kentucky Fried Chicken. Right. And there's a real question as to whether those are really trade secrets or whether those are just marketing. And if you look at recent advertising, like over the past 10 years, when's the last time you heard 11 herbs and spices? When's the last time you heard Coke's secret formula. Right.

And we know high ends 57 doesn't have 57 in it, so.

Right, yeah, exactly. And so I think with a lot of compounds in food and cosmetics, things like that, I'm not convinced that you can keep that stuff secret.

Yeah, technology has certainly changed in making that less possible nowadays as well. Well, Jason, before we wrap up completely here, I just wanted. Is there anything else that you would like people to know about you and about how you run the business or how they might have access to you?

I love talking with people who have something cool or interesting about their business and they value it and they feel like it matters. Right. I got into patent law because I'm a. A very curious person and I love understanding everything. And so I love hearing about new technology. And that's my everyday thing. I'm surrounded by people who are creative, intelligent, who are making the world a better place, who are excited about it. That's what I love.

And I see you in action, and I know that that's the case. You spend a lot of time with people at the events that we go to. We do a lot of mentorship events together. And yeah, I mean, you take time to really think about and through. It's not just, oh, yeah, it's patentable. You know, you really think. Take the time to understand it and think it through it and advise them the best method. I think there's a lot of attorneys out there who will be too quick to say, oh, yes, we'll patent that. And they really aren't evaluating the idea for what the right timing is. And so I appreciate that about you. And I also know that you have this fabulous newsletter of which I am a subscriber and I'm a vicious unsubscriber, I have to say.

But I get so much email, so. So I'm sure you understand that as well. But yours is one that I stay subscribed to and I actually read every time you send it out. And I downloaded every single one of your resources, and I was hoping maybe you would give us permission to put some of them into our resource library, which is private to members only, so they can check it out. But if you're interested, you should join Jason's email. So what is that email? I'll type it in the chat over here.

Oh, so if you go to jpweb us.

Oh, as I'm typing it wrong. Jpweb us.

Yep. And that's with two Bs. And then just there's a banner at the very bottom of the page called Legal Lifesavers. If you click on that, that's where you would sign up.

Okay. Legal Lifesavers adding that. Okay, so that's in the chat for those of you that view that video that way and we'll put it definitely in the notes to the video. So according, when this video comes out, there'll be a full blog post and we'll have that there as well so that they can can go and actually subscribe and get it. Because there's a lot more than just those PDF downloads. But you have some great core documents that you use and you've shared and they're wonderful. So great.

I really appreciate that. Well, Jason, thank you so much. And I invite all of our product launch members to remember that you can find Jason in the Experts library. You can find his resources in the resource library, you can find him in the experts listing and you can contact him straight through there. And you'd be looking for his next office hours where you can ask him your burning questions about your intellectual property or about what you've heard about patents and trademarks. So thank you for joining us.

Cool. Thanks a lot.

Thank you for joining us on this episode of Product Launch Hazards. To get the most out of your membership, visit productlaunchhazards.com to join the Expert Office Hours live and ask us your burning questions. Check out the resource library for document templates and guides and get exclusive articles and shares each day. Don't forget, you can always book a private consult with any expert so you can out design, outsource and out profit your way to product launch success.